**UPDATE** Rewatching this the next day, I think I rated the Sagitaur too low. 120pt for a T10 chassis with heavy weaponry is actually pretty good, esp considering the army doesn't have all that much access otherwise. I don't think it's 'amazing' or anything but I think solid B+ or A might be a more fair placement, the Combat Squad is also pretty good as well. Otherwise I probably could've spread some of the units in S-tier down to A-A+ but otherwise I still stand by my final rankings. Let me know what you guys think!
It is also all of that while being a small transport. Which is great utility and giving the dwarves some movement cannot be understated. A tier is fitting
Part of the reason I wanted to get some info out there. I'd hate for someone who owns Votann to just give up trying to write a strong list! Sure they won't win any tournaments but for garagehammer, hopefully this vid has some helpful pointers ;)
The reactive reprisal stratagem makes me so upset because the admech has the same stratagem for 1 CP and they don't need the enemy unit to have a judgement token or anything like that
Yup, one of the many annoyances. If they're going to add a requirement like needing Judgement Tokens at least decrease the cost or give some other sort of boost. There's all sorts of silly little interactions, like how Berserks have to roll a 4+ for the movement debuff yet most other armies either auto get it or do it on a 2+
Hell yeah, glad the vid helped! Their index may not be the strongest this moment but honestly I don't think that'll last too long. Besides, they'll still do just fine in friendly matches it's only hyper comp environments they'll struggle. Either way, great choice friend!
Yeah the expense would be the issue + you're not really getting that much power at range. If there's enemy Indirect they're goners too :( Hopefully the codex gives them some love tho
Just started my votann army yesterday, can't wait to lose xD btw how is TTS game for playing digital Warhammer? I dont have anyone to play with IRL lol other than 1 friend who doesn't play much anymore.
Honestly a few armies are having it pretty rough right now so while Votann *might* have it the rougher than most, so long as you aren't entering a tournament or playing some WAAC'er you still have a fighting chance! For TTS, it's glorious man, check out my 'how to play 40k on TTS' video for the deets! It'll make you love 40k all over again ;)
Honestly i dont want points cuts. I would rather their rules and mechanics be fixed. I love them, and i dont wanna paint and play a horde army. Other wise i may as well play an army that is actually made to be a horde.
I agree fully, but I *believe* they said at the start of 10th they don't want to change profiles or rules but will try to fix stuff with points. It's dumb & hopefully they do the right thing with Votann. Genuinely feel pretty upset with them over how they've handled the balance side of things. Feels like they wrote Votann before anyone else & then never came back to them to tweak the index with the rest
PS: the Iron-Master has 5 units (1 Master, 1 Assistant, *3* E-COG). This is a pain point for fitting into the Hekaton, as there are 12 seats and nothing fits nice with 5. (7 warriors? 2 Thunderkyn? 3 Hearth Guard?) It would be great if he counted as a transport CAP of 2 (the E-COGs could just fold up and go in the cargo hold in lore) then he would fit perfect in a with all the rest (a half size of Thunder and Guard, and a full size of warriors)
@@nightcrawlerefe nice! I'd have figured World Eaters would be a rough match up for them so good work. Totally agree theres a lack of real synergy or combos. Basically get whatever your Leader gives you &... That's it.. No rr 1's to hit combo, no crazy Dev Wounds etc
I've played two 1000pt games, one against Tau(Lose), one against Necrons(Win). Based on those, the most relevant impressions I had regarding your review: - Beserks are pretty useless, they are not worth playing I think. They cost a lot of points for cannon fodder. I would put them into trash, but maybe I just don't know how to use them properly... xD - The Hearthkyn splitting with the Sagitaur is pretty useful, there are units that you can send to take an objective then die. A 5 man unit also works good as an actual bodyguard unit for a Brokhyr-Iron Master or a Grimnyr. For this synergy, I would move the Sagitaur and Hearthkyn one tier higher to B tier. Also, the Sagitaur provided great utility in both of my battles, so I would even put it to A tier. It is fairly tanky, fast, has okay damage, pretty useful against characters, vehicles and monsters to help to wear them down. - The Grimnyr plays better than it sounds, but it doesn't provide much outside of the focused witchfire, which is too bad. Right now it doesn't worth 75 points in my opinion, so C Tier is legit unfortunately. For 75 points the Einhyr Champion is a way better choice. - The Brokhyr-Iron Master doesn't work as good as it sounds. I wouldn't put it to S tier, maybe to B tier, or it could go to A, if played in specific situations. The issue is that the +1 to hit has no relevance from turn 3 onwards, because the Judgement Tokens give you that already, and you usually put the token on the units you want to shoot. The heal is fine if there is a Hekaton, or a Brokhyr Thunderkyn unit, but unfortunately the heal doesn't resurrect units, so usually it can't be used to it's fullest on a Thunderkyn. Since the 75 points can't be put to use effectively for the full battle, I don't think that it is S tier, but I could give it a pass with A tier, when used to heal a Hekaton. - The Brokhyr Thunderkyn is good, all weapon options are great. I would not put it to S tier though, because they are not auto include in my opinion, since you need to build around them for some extent to use them to their fullest. They are a pretty good, but only to be in A tier. The army feels a bit weak, but I've had fun playing with them anyways. :D I can agree with most of your review as well.
@@kezeslabas9137 @kezeslabas9137 this is fantastic, thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts. I was thinking about it this morning & I do think I put the Sagitaur too low. 120pts isn't horrific for a T10 chassis & it brings some added value with weaponry as well. I also think I could've split some of the units out of S-tier & into A/A+ instead. I still like Iron Master a boatload though, 3D *and* being 4-models with ablative wounds is pretty spicy for 75pt; I could def just be in the honeymoon phase lol but I still rate him as one of the better option personally! Your assessment seems spot on though, glad to see you've been able to eek out some wins too - vs Necrons nonetheless!!
I've played a bunch of 1000 point games. My win rate is going up as I play them. Lost to Genestealer Cults, Grey Knights (that one hurt, I was still learning the army), Chaos Marines (on points, I wiped all but one of them), World Eaters (wiped but it was close). Chaos with a knight (won on points, he had 2 marines left) and Tau (wiped them and won on points). The land fortress is awesome, I love pioneers but I have never had them get past turn 2... The Kin are good for taking objectives, generally I start them on an objective capture it and jump into my fortress to nip off to a second one. I love the Hearthguard add a champion and they are nails, taking out lots of stuff. And Beserkers exist... I want them to be good. I really do.
Oops, looks like I got mixed up on the Warrior Pride stratagem, only works in melee it looks like :( Thanks GW! Couldn't give them something that meshes with the rest of their army lol
Berserkers with mauls in a hunkachunk.. hits on 3s wounds on +1 but re roll the wound roll. they kill knights bro, not sure where the D tier ranking comes from here
Zerkers are my favorite kit, but being a ~15ppw / 5" move melee unit in 10th edition is *rough* - that said I hope I'm wrong hah, I love Votann & want them to do good so maybe I'll have to take another look at the Zerks! The damage output is def there but getting them to survive long enough to get in contact is the issue I genuinely love hearing other povs so I appreciate you sharing your thoughts either way. I haven't ran Votann in a bit now so maybe I'll give them another look Where I really messed up my rankings was the Sagitaur :P Def put him too low!
**UPDATE** Rewatching this the next day, I think I rated the Sagitaur too low. 120pt for a T10 chassis with heavy weaponry is actually pretty good, esp considering the army doesn't have all that much access otherwise. I don't think it's 'amazing' or anything but I think solid B+ or A might be a more fair placement, the Combat Squad is also pretty good as well. Otherwise I probably could've spread some of the units in S-tier down to A-A+ but otherwise I still stand by my final rankings. Let me know what you guys think!
It is also all of that while being a small transport. Which is great utility and giving the dwarves some movement cannot be understated. A tier is fitting
good call the transport seems ok really, tho would be better if it hit on 3s lol
I didn't expect a tier list to exist for the leagues of votann with our average win rate in tournaments sitting around 28% xD.
Part of the reason I wanted to get some info out there. I'd hate for someone who owns Votann to just give up trying to write a strong list! Sure they won't win any tournaments but for garagehammer, hopefully this vid has some helpful pointers ;)
The reactive reprisal stratagem makes me so upset because the admech has the same stratagem for 1 CP and they don't need the enemy unit to have a judgement token or anything like that
Yup, one of the many annoyances. If they're going to add a requirement like needing Judgement Tokens at least decrease the cost or give some other sort of boost. There's all sorts of silly little interactions, like how Berserks have to roll a 4+ for the movement debuff yet most other armies either auto get it or do it on a 2+
Great vid! Just ordered my first set of Votann!
Hell yeah, glad the vid helped! Their index may not be the strongest this moment but honestly I don't think that'll last too long. Besides, they'll still do just fine in friendly matches it's only hyper comp environments they'll struggle. Either way, great choice friend!
nice format. i enjoy the virtual tabletop style
YEAH DWARVES!
SPAAAHSSS DWUUAAARVES! Legit they remind me of Starcraft Marines hah
@@fatarchon oh whoa! they do lol
Sad to see LoV have such a subpar book - I agree with you tho GW will fix them hopefully
Yeah, normally you'd expect the newer armies to be overpowered if anything haha so a little surprising. Hoping to see a points drop in the near future
Legit do you not just bring 3x10 berserks and use them as backfield indirect platforms and ignore their melee? Probably too expensive though.
Yeah the expense would be the issue + you're not really getting that much power at range. If there's enemy Indirect they're goners too :( Hopefully the codex gives them some love tho
@@fatarchon Very true. What else do you bring though there are no data sheets xD
Just started my votann army yesterday, can't wait to lose xD btw how is TTS game for playing digital Warhammer? I dont have anyone to play with IRL lol other than 1 friend who doesn't play much anymore.
Honestly a few armies are having it pretty rough right now so while Votann *might* have it the rougher than most, so long as you aren't entering a tournament or playing some WAAC'er you still have a fighting chance! For TTS, it's glorious man, check out my 'how to play 40k on TTS' video for the deets! It'll make you love 40k all over again ;)
Honestly i dont want points cuts. I would rather their rules and mechanics be fixed. I love them, and i dont wanna paint and play a horde army. Other wise i may as well play an army that is actually made to be a horde.
I agree fully, but I *believe* they said at the start of 10th they don't want to change profiles or rules but will try to fix stuff with points. It's dumb & hopefully they do the right thing with Votann. Genuinely feel pretty upset with them over how they've handled the balance side of things. Feels like they wrote Votann before anyone else & then never came back to them to tweak the index with the rest
PS: the Iron-Master has 5 units (1 Master, 1 Assistant, *3* E-COG). This is a pain point for fitting into the Hekaton, as there are 12 seats and nothing fits nice with 5. (7 warriors? 2 Thunderkyn? 3 Hearth Guard?) It would be great if he counted as a transport CAP of 2 (the E-COGs could just fold up and go in the cargo hold in lore) then he would fit perfect in a with all the rest (a half size of Thunder and Guard, and a full size of warriors)
Oof, add that onto the list of grudges Votann will have with GW
Yeah this is annoying as the obvious would be a unit of Thuderkin and a Forgemaster but that's too much for the fortress... Sigh.
What is the maximum amount of pioneers that can be taken In a 2k list
x3 units of 6 I do believe! So x18 models for 1260pts
@@fatarchon thanks for the reply
Any LoV players out there have any luck on the tabletop yet? Is be interested in hearing how well they worked out for up you 10th
played a couple of 1000 point games, won against World Eaters but lost to Thousand Sons and Orks. We really lack combos.
@@nightcrawlerefe nice! I'd have figured World Eaters would be a rough match up for them so good work. Totally agree theres a lack of real synergy or combos. Basically get whatever your Leader gives you &... That's it.. No rr 1's to hit combo, no crazy Dev Wounds etc
I've played two 1000pt games, one against Tau(Lose), one against Necrons(Win).
Based on those, the most relevant impressions I had regarding your review:
- Beserks are pretty useless, they are not worth playing I think. They cost a lot of points for cannon fodder. I would put them into trash, but maybe I just don't know how to use them properly... xD
- The Hearthkyn splitting with the Sagitaur is pretty useful, there are units that you can send to take an objective then die. A 5 man unit also works good as an actual bodyguard unit for a Brokhyr-Iron Master or a Grimnyr. For this synergy, I would move the Sagitaur and Hearthkyn one tier higher to B tier. Also, the Sagitaur provided great utility in both of my battles, so I would even put it to A tier. It is fairly tanky, fast, has okay damage, pretty useful against characters, vehicles and monsters to help to wear them down.
- The Grimnyr plays better than it sounds, but it doesn't provide much outside of the focused witchfire, which is too bad. Right now it doesn't worth 75 points in my opinion, so C Tier is legit unfortunately. For 75 points the Einhyr Champion is a way better choice.
- The Brokhyr-Iron Master doesn't work as good as it sounds. I wouldn't put it to S tier, maybe to B tier, or it could go to A, if played in specific situations. The issue is that the +1 to hit has no relevance from turn 3 onwards, because the Judgement Tokens give you that already, and you usually put the token on the units you want to shoot. The heal is fine if there is a Hekaton, or a Brokhyr Thunderkyn unit, but unfortunately the heal doesn't resurrect units, so usually it can't be used to it's fullest on a Thunderkyn. Since the 75 points can't be put to use effectively for the full battle, I don't think that it is S tier, but I could give it a pass with A tier, when used to heal a Hekaton.
- The Brokhyr Thunderkyn is good, all weapon options are great. I would not put it to S tier though, because they are not auto include in my opinion, since you need to build around them for some extent to use them to their fullest. They are a pretty good, but only to be in A tier.
The army feels a bit weak, but I've had fun playing with them anyways. :D
I can agree with most of your review as well.
@@kezeslabas9137 @kezeslabas9137 this is fantastic, thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts. I was thinking about it this morning & I do think I put the Sagitaur too low. 120pts isn't horrific for a T10 chassis & it brings some added value with weaponry as well. I also think I could've split some of the units out of S-tier & into A/A+ instead. I still like Iron Master a boatload though, 3D *and* being 4-models with ablative wounds is pretty spicy for 75pt; I could def just be in the honeymoon phase lol but I still rate him as one of the better option personally! Your assessment seems spot on though, glad to see you've been able to eek out some wins too - vs Necrons nonetheless!!
I've played a bunch of 1000 point games. My win rate is going up as I play them. Lost to Genestealer Cults, Grey Knights (that one hurt, I was still learning the army), Chaos Marines (on points, I wiped all but one of them), World Eaters (wiped but it was close). Chaos with a knight (won on points, he had 2 marines left) and Tau (wiped them and won on points).
The land fortress is awesome, I love pioneers but I have never had them get past turn 2... The Kin are good for taking objectives, generally I start them on an objective capture it and jump into my fortress to nip off to a second one.
I love the Hearthguard add a champion and they are nails, taking out lots of stuff.
And Beserkers exist... I want them to be good. I really do.
Where can you boost ranged AP by 2??
Oops, looks like I got mixed up on the Warrior Pride stratagem, only works in melee it looks like :( Thanks GW! Couldn't give them something that meshes with the rest of their army lol
Berserkers with mauls in a hunkachunk.. hits on 3s wounds on +1 but re roll the wound roll. they kill knights bro, not sure where the D tier ranking comes from here
Zerkers are my favorite kit, but being a ~15ppw / 5" move melee unit in 10th edition is *rough* - that said I hope I'm wrong hah, I love Votann & want them to do good so maybe I'll have to take another look at the Zerks! The damage output is def there but getting them to survive long enough to get in contact is the issue
I genuinely love hearing other povs so I appreciate you sharing your thoughts either way. I haven't ran Votann in a bit now so maybe I'll give them another look
Where I really messed up my rankings was the Sagitaur :P Def put him too low!
@@fatarchon yeah sag are auto include :P give them another chance you may be surprised. :D
C tier sagitaur? Methinks you need to look again :D
Hey now! Check my pinned comment hah. Nah you're right, dunno why I was so hard on that guy
what is game is this one in your video ?