wow !!!10 years later..you are writing the bible for future generation who may be restoring and/or repairing the old british iron mc's. helping me on finishing off restoration on my 71 Triumph bonneville as l have to repair the seals as one of them is leaking on exhaust rocker(hot) Thank you Lunmad. U R de MAN
Good video, thank you for sharing. Triumph came out with a bulletin saying that the placement of the factory washer was shown wrong in all the manuals and it is actually supposed to be put on the ends of the shaft, the plain washer is supposed to be riding next to the rocker, so all the pictures in all the manuals are actually wrong. Just a note to everyone who doesn't know about Triumphs update bulletin. You will need to change the position of the factory washer and the plane washer......
Scott, great comment and catch. To clarify, the Shop Manual incorrectly shows the orientation of the plain washer and spring (thackery) washer. As you note, the plain washer is installed against each rocker spindle . However, the Parts Manual shows the proper orientation.
Yes, John is indeed "Mr. Triumph" in that he knows how to do this stuff in a practical manner on everyman's budget and takes the time to make these nice tutorials. Hats off to him! I just like to add a little wherever I feel I can. I hope nobody minds.
While the rocker spindle is out, check to make sure the oil passages are clear. Stick your oil can in the end and oil should squirt out the farthest two holes first. Then cover those with your thumb and forefinger and oil should squirt out the other two. Usually not a problem, just be thorough. If you use a brass hammer, or a brass drift or a piece of hardwood between a steel hammer and the spindle, you won't get marks on the cad plating on the spindle end or nut.
Thanks mac163, :-) Them shims and spring washers are a right pain to fit. A good thing is, if the rockers arms are left in place the shaft can be withdrawn and then replaced fairly easily.
Lunmad, son excelentes sus videos, espero que sigas subiendo muchos mas , estoy restaurando mis 2 triumphs y tus videos han sido de mucha ayuda, un fuerte abrazo desde mexico! saludos
Hi spokelips :-D I came across a "Triumph Bulletin" recently saying the same, depending what rockers arms you have, some rocker arms have a small cut at the rear to squirt oil onto the pushrod ends. As mine have been this way for 20yrs I think I will leave them for now. I might just fit 4 next time 1 on each side of Thackery :-) Great comment and well spotted.
The spring and thrust washer arrangement is there to keep the works quiet. Racers replace it with thicker spacers on both ends of the rocker arm to get rid of the spring resistance. Gains a wee bit of HP if you don't mind an extra little clickety-clack. Leave .010" free play. That was just FYI. Doesn't do a bit of good unless you go full race otherwise.
lunmad: Loved the videos. I just rebuilt a '70 TR6R into a nice looking chopper. I wish I could have seen these vids before I stated rebuilding it. One thing tho', I think you installed the spring washer and the outside spacers (2x) in reverse order. My Triumph manual shows all of the flat spacers going to the rocker sides and the spring washers going to the outside.
yeah the factory messed up in assembly after they changed rocker design in '71. The flat washer should be up against the rocker, it keeps the oil in under the rocker arm and pressurizes it. The Thackeray (spring) washer should be up against the rocker box. All the spindles should've been made with the spiral oil groove cut in them for proper oiling.
On second thought, they might be lightly case hardened, but not tipped with stellite or the like. If there's any pits or flat spots, I'd replace them. The radius is important for longevity of the adjusters and valves.
Re tipped: if you mean are the ends hardened, I don't think so. Just FYI I think you can get adjusters with a mushroom head somewhat similar to old Trident ones.
Cheers gordonemoore :-) and your own great comments add such a lot :-) so thank you too. Would you know offhand if the tappet adjusters are tipped? I am still not sure as the line I could see only went 1/2way round the adjuster.
He put the washers on in the wrong order. There was a change in 68 or 68 in the way the rocker arm got oil. With the new method you needed the thackery on the outside and the flat washer/shin against the rocker arm. Otherwise it could restrict the flow of oil. There was a Triumph service bulletin that went out about this because the manuals all showed it incorrectly. In order to flip those two around, you'll need the larger inner diameter washer for all 4. The book has 3 larger diameter then one smaller diameter washer for the last one (on the acorn nut side) you need to get 2 more of the larger ID washers to properly make the change.
Hi there, I followed your video when replacing a leaky shaft seal. It was very tight when I put it back. Slivers of rubber came away from the o ring upon replacement. Did I not chamfer the leading edge enough perhaps. I notice that you don't use the insertion tool. I gave up with the tool mself as each time it trapped the o ring even more. Just how much of an edge should do it please? Thanks Paul
Hi Paul :-) it may of needed a little more of a chamfer it's hard to tell without a look and plenty of grease or oil. I have used a thin feeler gauge wrapped around the spindle with success. I have also had them leave a small sliver and they have still been oil tight.
lunmad I did about a minute or twos worth of a chamfer. Difficult to say how long u did yours, with time lapse etc. I know it's asking a lot, but in width of leading edge ..0.5mm ?
Hi Paul :-) probably 1mm at about 30 degrees, getting the angle at the bottom is difficult as the fin on the rocker gets in the way. You could also use one of them ball grinder things, it would need to be just a bit bigger than the hole. Hope this gives you something to work with.
lunmad do the rings vary from different suppliers? You don't rate using the tool then either? Do you know a good supplier of better quality rings? Regards Paul
Hi Paul :-) the tools vary in quality too, a bit of sanding to smooth them out can be necessary and improve them. When using the tool it must be put on first then the o-ring. The o-rings I use are the ones out of an Emgo gasket set and I have not had any bother with them. In the set there are other o-rings the same size but are fatter and will cut if used on the rocker spindles. The ones to use are the really thin ones.
Hi Paul :-) yes it is possible. Roll the motor over until both valves are on the rock, then slacken both the tappets adjusters so they are not touching the valves. With no pressure on the rocker arms the spindle will push out. If you have a O-ring tool push the spindle far enough out to get the tool on then fit the o-ring and grease then push the spindle back. If you do not have a tool it is possible to use a thin feeler gauge to get the o-ring in. I hope this helps.
Whoops! gordonemoore! I asked"Would you know offhand if the tappet adjusters are tipped? I am still not sure as the line I could see only went 1/2way round the adjuster." wrong vid sorry :-D its for the rocker and tappets vid.lol
hello triumphchoppers Hola y gracias, más venir como hago el trabajo. el tiempo está consiguiendo el calentador aquí ahora, tan esperanzadamente montaré más, pero hay siempre algo que puedo ser fijación o el ensuciar con. I hope the translation worked :-)
...hello, the way Lunmad is doing is right. You NEVER put any spring or like that to an aluminum thing By theway, in the 650 s and 750 s parts manual they say 12 plain washers instead of 8 but in reality there s no place to put those, that are the ones that go between the spring and the rocker arm
wow !!!10 years later..you are writing the bible for future generation who may be restoring and/or repairing the old british iron mc's.
helping me on finishing off restoration on my 71 Triumph bonneville as l have to repair the seals as one of them is leaking on exhaust rocker(hot)
Thank you Lunmad. U R de MAN
Good video, thank you for sharing. Triumph came out with a bulletin saying that the placement of the factory washer was shown wrong in all the manuals and it is actually supposed to be put on the ends of the shaft, the plain washer is supposed to be riding next to the rocker, so all the pictures in all the manuals are actually wrong. Just a note to everyone who doesn't know about Triumphs update bulletin. You will need to change the position of the factory washer and the plane washer......
Scott, great comment and catch. To clarify, the Shop Manual incorrectly shows the orientation of the plain washer and spring (thackery) washer. As you note, the plain washer is installed against each rocker spindle . However, the Parts Manual shows the proper orientation.
Yes, John is indeed "Mr. Triumph" in that he knows how to do this stuff in a practical manner on everyman's budget and takes the time to make these nice tutorials. Hats off to him!
I just like to add a little wherever I feel I can. I hope nobody minds.
While the rocker spindle is out, check to make sure the oil passages are clear. Stick your oil can in the end and oil should squirt out the farthest two holes first. Then cover those with your thumb and forefinger and oil should squirt out the other two. Usually not a problem, just be thorough.
If you use a brass hammer, or a brass drift or a piece of hardwood between a steel hammer and the spindle, you won't get marks on the cad plating on the spindle end or nut.
Definitely going to make a LUNMAD sticker for my bikes and a LUNMAD patch for my jacket.
Again first class job Lunmad. the use of the socket extension shaft is a very good idea.
Thanks mac163, :-)
Them shims and spring washers are a right pain to fit.
A good thing is, if the rockers arms are left in place the shaft can be withdrawn and then replaced fairly easily.
Very helpful. Mine have leaked oil from new. Perhaps your clock needs a little attention.
Lunmad, son excelentes sus videos, espero que sigas subiendo muchos mas , estoy restaurando mis 2 triumphs y tus videos han sido de mucha ayuda, un fuerte abrazo desde mexico!
saludos
Hi spokelips :-D
I came across a "Triumph Bulletin" recently saying the same, depending what rockers arms you have, some rocker arms have a small cut at the rear to squirt oil onto the pushrod ends.
As mine have been this way for 20yrs I think I will leave them for now. I might just fit 4 next time 1 on each side of Thackery :-)
Great comment and well spotted.
The spring and thrust washer arrangement is there to keep the works quiet. Racers replace it with thicker spacers on both ends of the rocker arm to get rid of the spring resistance. Gains a wee bit of HP if you don't mind an extra little clickety-clack. Leave .010" free play.
That was just FYI. Doesn't do a bit of good unless you go full race otherwise.
lunmad: Loved the videos. I just rebuilt a '70 TR6R into a nice looking chopper. I wish I could have seen these vids before I stated rebuilding it.
One thing tho', I think you installed the spring washer and the outside spacers (2x) in reverse order. My Triumph manual shows all of the flat spacers going to the rocker sides and the spring washers going to the outside.
yeah the factory messed up in assembly after they changed rocker design in '71.
The flat washer should be up against the rocker, it keeps the oil in under the rocker arm and pressurizes it. The Thackeray (spring) washer should be up against the rocker box.
All the spindles should've been made with the spiral oil groove cut in them for proper oiling.
Cheers! egpg2000, head on next :-)
On second thought, they might be lightly case hardened, but not tipped with stellite or the like. If there's any pits or flat spots, I'd replace them. The radius is important for longevity of the adjusters and valves.
Re tipped: if you mean are the ends hardened, I don't think so. Just FYI I think you can get adjusters with a mushroom head somewhat similar to old Trident ones.
Cheers gordonemoore :-)
and your own great comments add such a lot :-)
so thank you too.
Would you know offhand if the tappet adjusters are tipped?
I am still not sure as the line I could see only went 1/2way round the adjuster.
He put the washers on in the wrong order. There was a change in 68 or 68 in the way the rocker arm got oil. With the new method you needed the thackery on the outside and the flat washer/shin against the rocker arm. Otherwise it could restrict the flow of oil. There was a Triumph service bulletin that went out about this because the manuals all showed it incorrectly. In order to flip those two around, you'll need the larger inner diameter washer for all 4. The book has 3 larger diameter then one smaller diameter washer for the last one (on the acorn nut side) you need to get 2 more of the larger ID washers to properly make the change.
Hi; actually there he has the old arms and spindles. The other system need a grooved spindle and arms with a side (edge) notch to work
Hi gordonemoore :-)
"know the bit you forget!!" ;-)
bits I work on usually end up in my gob! and me blowing through it :-D
but the oil can is safer.
Hi there, I followed your video when replacing a leaky shaft seal. It was very tight when I put it back. Slivers of rubber came away from the o ring upon replacement. Did I not chamfer the leading edge enough perhaps. I notice that you don't use the insertion tool. I gave up with the tool mself as each time it trapped the o ring even more. Just how much of an edge should do it please? Thanks Paul
Hi Paul :-) it may of needed a little more of a chamfer it's hard to tell without a look and plenty of grease or oil.
I have used a thin feeler gauge wrapped around the spindle with success. I have also had them leave a small sliver and they have still been oil tight.
lunmad I did about a minute or twos worth of a chamfer. Difficult to say how long u did yours, with time lapse etc. I know it's asking a lot, but in width of leading edge ..0.5mm ?
Hi Paul :-) probably 1mm at about 30 degrees, getting the angle at the bottom is difficult as the fin on the rocker gets in the way. You could also use one of them ball grinder things, it would need to be just a bit bigger than the hole. Hope this gives you something to work with.
lunmad do the rings vary from different suppliers? You don't rate using the tool then either? Do you know a good supplier of better quality rings?
Regards Paul
Hi Paul :-) the tools vary in quality too, a bit of sanding to smooth them out can be necessary and improve them. When using the tool it must be put on first then the o-ring.
The o-rings I use are the ones out of an Emgo gasket set and I have not had any bother with them.
In the set there are other o-rings the same size but are fatter and will cut if used on the rocker spindles.
The ones to use are the really thin ones.
Hi, can you replace the O Ring with the rocker cover and spindle still in situ. Kind regards Paul
Hi Paul :-) yes it is possible.
Roll the motor over until both valves are on the rock, then slacken both the tappets adjusters so they are not touching the valves.
With no pressure on the rocker arms the spindle will push out.
If you have a O-ring tool push the spindle far enough out to get the tool on then fit the o-ring and grease then push the spindle back.
If you do not have a tool it is possible to use a thin feeler gauge to get the o-ring in.
I hope this helps.
lunmad . Cheers mate, thanks for the help😁
Whoops! gordonemoore!
I asked"Would you know offhand if the tappet adjusters are tipped?
I am still not sure as the line I could see only went 1/2way round the adjuster."
wrong vid sorry :-D
its for the rocker and tappets vid.lol
hello triumphchoppers
Hola y gracias, más venir como hago el trabajo. el tiempo está consiguiendo el calentador aquí ahora, tan esperanzadamente montaré más, pero hay siempre algo que puedo ser fijación o el ensuciar con.
I hope the translation worked :-)
...hello, the way Lunmad is doing is right. You NEVER put any spring or like that to an aluminum thing
By theway, in the 650 s and 750 s parts manual they say 12 plain washers instead of 8 but in reality there s no place to put those, that are the ones that go between the spring and the rocker arm
lol :-D