Save the Cat Deep Dive: Theme Stated [CC]
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- Опубліковано 25 лип 2024
- Welcome to the next video in this series of Save the Cat deep dive where I'll be going over theme stated.
Timestamps
00:00 - 01:19 Introduction + what is “theme stated?”
01:19 - 03:07 Why does theme matter?
03:07 - 05:28 How to choose a theme
05:28 - 13:14 A note on “stated” + b plot
13:14 - 15:05 Conclusion
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Save the Cat Deep Dive playlist: • WRITING - Save the Cat...
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Love these videos. So excited for the whole series.
So happy you’re loving them!
This series is awesome! And perfect timing while I'm outlining the first act 😄
Perfect timing for real! Super glad that you’re enjoying the series ☺️
Ahh I love this series!! 🤗 this is perfect because I’ve been wondering about this beat.
So glad you’re loving it! ☺️
This is so helpful! Thank you for unpacking this stuff with such clear examples. I just discovered your channel and have been working my way through all your videos, & they're a lot of fun. The other day I grabbed STC & Hooked based on your recommendation, then bought Blood Like Magic, too. I'm very much enjoying everything!
Thanks for supplying so much candid info on your personal progress... it's a tremendous encouragement. I'm wrapping up the final polish of my first novel & trying to get through the querying process, so I need all the motivation & support I can find.
I’m so happy you’re enjoying the videos and thank you so much for grabbing a copy of Blood Like Magic too! I hope the craft books end up being helpful for you
And of course, I’m happy to share what I can to help others. And ahh that’s wonderful that you’re gearing up to query. Wishing you the best of luck!!
This is so helpful! Thank you for laying this all out.
Happy to!
You have no idea how much I needed this video right now!
Yay! I wasn’t sure how helpful the theme stated bit would be, but I was already doing all the bests so I was like 🤷🏾♀️
@@LiselleSambury Yeah, I know that idea that themes aren't for more casual stories but I think they really strengthen the character arcs. The B-story character embodies the lesson the MC will learn and so will her surroundings.
If you've read Write Your Book From The Middle, Bell's sort of talking about the climax of the theme in that Mirror Moment then the rest of the story works toward that resolution.
I thought my theme was about revenge, but by the end of the story that's still exactly what my MC wants. So the ending felt dissatisfying, like she hadn't learned anything, even though she's clearly changed. Then I thought it was about control, and I realized I'd need a different 3rd act to make that fit. Then I saw through all the other plot points I'd planned and her transformation, that it was actually about freedom. Now everything I'd had planned actually works.
I think theme is more important than it's given credit for and I suspect it's the different between a strong and weak middle/2nd act. The fun & games might not be furthering the core of the story without it.
Framework vs hard and fast rules is how I work as well. I use parts of at least a dozen different structure systems, and see every element in each of them as one tool in my toolbox that I pull out when they're the right tool for the job in a given scene or sequence.
I love that! I do think that sort of system is really useful and it makes everything flexible. I like that I can learn something new and just add it onto whatever I’m already working with or shift things because sometimes one thing doesn’t work well but another might
@@LiselleSambury Same.
The same principle works even better in... *waves hands around*... LIFE, heh
@@mythiclore5508 haha yes
I've also thought this beat was heavy-handed..but I really like your interpretation of it! I guess I think of something similar - a "quintessential" scene, i.e. a scene that demonstrates who the character is now & demonstrates their flaw...an attack by an ally or call-out at that point definitely makes sense. I think it's the wording "theme stated" itself that trips me up a bit
Yes, and it was so interested to think about that “stated” bit because it really does seem to say “you must actually state this” whereas I think it’s more like “theme expressed” in that it’s just a spot to signal the theme to your reader however you decide
@@LiselleSambury Yes I love that!
I'm definitely the type of writer to think that having theme being explicitly stated is heavy handed. So I don't. 😆
BUT I do keep the theme in mind as I plan/write my story. 😊
That’s totally fair haha and I think that works. I feel like it’s very much a personal choice
Same, but I do use the Bplot character to address to discuss the theme and agree they typically naturally bring up theme elements
Agreed. Some films do explicitly state it, but I think that the theme is nearly always revealed through character dialogue early on. If a character needs to change, then this will almost certainly be challenged by a character early on.
I rarely consider theme until I discover that my story seems to have this theme, and then I decide whether I like it or not, and shift the story a bit if I don't 😅
Regarding the statement, I agree that it doesn't have to be stated explicitly, and I've found that some themes come to me as "here is the problem" rather than "here's the solution". Doesn't work with all themes, but fairly common in my books is the theme to open up to others and trust other people, and that theme could be stated as someone saying "you have to learn to trust people," but it could also be the character stating "I don't trust other people, I'll do this myself."
That makes sense to me as a process because sometimes you want to discover your theme along the way. And yes, I do think that works as the stating of the problem as showing the theme as well. I feel like there’s a lot of ways to communicate that to the reader and so this beat more so becomes “express the theme to the reader” than “explicitly state the theme” even if the latter is perhaps what it was meant to be
What are you thoughts on the theme actually being started in reverse? Like someone says you should do this or you need this, and having the character strive for 'this' but really what they needed was the complete opposite of 'this'? My draft is working up that way and I feel like I am struggling with the theme because I feel like I am trying to shoehorn it into the what it should be.
I feel like you should do whatever works best for your story. I feel like if that’s how you want to present your theme then go for it. In that case, you can present the theme and then have that b-story character hinting at what the character really needs. I feel like what STC is getting at is that hint or giving the reader an idea of what they need. But I also don’t see any issue with having the reader on board with thinking the theme is one thing and then revealing it to be something else.
Hi!
Liselle, how do you deal with theme when you have three main characters? In most of the books in my series, I really try to assign a "main" character even if the other characters have an important role, but in this third novel, it really feels like all three are important. So when it comes to theme, would they all learn a similar lesson or a version of the same lesson? Or do I have to work harder to choose one? Thanks!
I will preface my advice by saying I’ve only ever written dual POV where one character was very clearly the main one and had most of the chapters. But what I would recommend in your case is that each character can have a different lie, or want, or need, and you can still express one central theme. For example, say your theme is that you need to believe in yourself. One character might not believe in themselves because they think they’re unworthy, one might not believe in themselves because they don’t think people have control of their own fates, and one might just believe that it’s better to let others control what they do, which is also a function of not believing in themselves. So that’s one way you could do it if you want to focus on a single theme if that makes sense.
Though often even in multi POV stories, I find that one POV will be more prominent than the others, even if they’re all important. So usually I plan STC based on that most prominent POV, and the others more complement the plot and will often be a b-story character, and then their arc can be very different. It doesn’t mean their journey isn’t important, but rather that the trajectory of the story is decided by that main POV.
I hope that helps!
Yes. This helps so much. (IMO, you're brilliant. Thank you)@@LiselleSambury
Tldr mini essay about how The a wonderful wizard of oz & sequels do multiple themes badly bc they were trying to not have one at all.
The Wonderful Wizard of Oz-- the novel, not the mgm film based on it-- had a foreword by the author that it doesn't have a moral, that public education takes care of that in these modern times (of 1900 lol) so this is just a fun fairy story for nothing but entertainment.
Despite this, there are a number of what I'd call themes-- but bc it wasn't intentional, they're kinda muddy. Even more so when the sequels are taken into account and the lessons/ points/ etc are entirely dismissed.
Both themes were made clearer in the film, actually. "There's no place like home," was indeed a line used in the book, but it wasn't at all related to the silver shoes-- replaced by the ruby slippers in the film. All the same, that's why Dorothy wanted to go back, despite oz being a clear improvement from rural dust bowl Kansas.
The other theme was that if you have a personal goal to strive towards, you don't need someone else to give you a brain, a heart, or the nerve-- and in fact they can't, there's no magic to do such; however, if you hold that quality in high regard, there's a good chance you've already got the potential for it. The scarecrow was already the one who solved the problems the party faced while traveling the yellow brick road; the tin woodman saved & helped numerous creatures for nothing else than to help, and cried when he accidentally stepped on a beetle; the cowardly lion helped the party cross chasms by leaping across with them on his back, one at a time, making a total of six death-defying leaps over a single drop, and later when they were pursued by two kalidahs (bears with heads & tails of tigers) he stayed behind for a moment to roar at them while the rest of the party escaped over a log laid across another chasm, this one too wide to jump, and only when they were across did he run across himself, then pushed the log to deny their pursuers a bridge.
But then, when they learn the Wizard is nothing but a humbug, they... still poster him to give them stuff. In the books, like the movie, it's all symbolic, even if the items themselves differ is the same effect-- none. Our it SHOULD have been none, but they still gotta like, do more stuff. And get Dorothy to queen Glinda, the good witch of the south, to figure out how to get her home, and the good end for her three companions is narratively framed not as understanding the qualities they had all along, but of being made ruler for some territory or other.
And, as said before, sequels muddy it further-- the fact that the wizard gave the woodman "a mind heart, but not a loving one," is the whole point of the 15th book or so. The scarecrow is treated as the smartest ever, and while he is still clever he's put no more effort into learning anything. The cowardly lion is the only one who managed to learn his actual lesson-- he still calls himself cowardly bc he feels afraid when faced with dangerous things, but he doesn't turn and run, and when he meets Dorothy's aunt em and uncle Henry he pretends to act scared for the sake of making them feel more at ease.
And that's the last point-- Dorothy comes to live in oz with ~~her girlfriend~~ princess ozma on invitation, taking her aunt & uncle with, and never returning to Kansas after that. Which, okay, I love that home=family and family=those you choose, which can but doesn't need to include blood relations, but it muddies the theme of the first book about Dorothy wanting to get home again despite all the splendor of oz.
You’ve really thought about this! Wow! I’ve only seen the one Wizard of Oz movie and I hadn’t really thought about it, but it’s interesting that they were purposely trying to not have a theme. Which seems like a really hard thing to do because, as you demonstrated, people will pick out themes anyway. It seems like more work to try not to have one haha but it’s an interesting stance
Haha, thanks! I hadn't put all this info together in quite this way before watching your video, but the Oz novels are one of my special interests, so I think about them a lot in a kind of general sense 😂