Why Antiheroes aren't Villains
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- Опубліковано 23 тра 2023
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You know antiheroes, you love antiheroes, but chances are it's hard for you to say what an antihero actually is. Where's the line between violence and villainy? Where does hero end, where does villain begin, and where does antihero sit between them?
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Heroes range from Lawful good to Neutral Good. Villains range from Neutral evil to chaotic evil, anti heroes range from chaotic good to lawful evil.
No all heroes range from lawful good to chaotic good. There's no such thing as an anti hero, that's a villain. Anti means opposite like anti-christ.
Okay, given that: good = selfLESS and evil = selfISH, I can imagine heroes from every alignment, except possibly chaotic stupid; and honestly, the same with villains.
Lawful good heroes follow 'the rules' and 'the greater good'. Lawful good villains do the same, only with no wiggle room for others' choices (you WILL follow the law, even if it's not a law that applies to you) and potentially more brutal methods.
Lawful evil heroes follow 'the rules' but follow them for their own reasons. The perception of them being 'a good guy of strong moral standing' (for example) would be worth more to them than 'the greater good'. A lawful evil villain uses the rules to advance their own agendas, potentially utilizing absolutely brutal means to condemn those who dissent to either silence them (from the world, or from their own potential internal struggle), discredit them, or destroy them.
I'm sure you can see where I'm going with this. Hard and fast rules like only X are Y, or Z, is definitely a lawful take on the matter. 😹
The DnD morality system is only going to result in a one-dimentional character and is woefully inadequate for good narratives. I often refer to a very familiar historical figure who is uniformly portayed as "evil" to demonstrate this point. Hitler was a married man, loved his dogs and was a very good leader of his people. Beloved for his economic and social reforms which revived a country from depression and was praised by both the international community and the Vatican.
So did he suddenly go from Lawful Good to Unlawful Evil? No. He was the same person throughout his political career. His attitudes and predjudices were always there but his circumstances revealed different parts of his personality. Was Hitler a good man? At times, yes. Was he an evil man? At times, yes. So all in all he was just a man with the same nuances as everyone else.
@@halarkin When it comes to standard axis alignment, yeah I agree with the take of Good just means Selfless and Evil just means Selfish. The Good and Evil are metaphorical, evil and good in terms of what most societies believe not in terms of actual morals.
But I rarely follow axis alignment anyways. The Color Pie from MTG is a far better alignment system, and there are other alternatives as well that deserve some attention.
In the color pie, heros and villains and anything inbetween can be any of the one colors, a mix of the colors, no colors at all, or all of the colors. The colors merely represent philosophies which are loosely tied to an element, they are not moral in any sense of the word. And that nuanced yet mechanically grounded rather than merely speculative philosophy system works far better than "are you selfish or selfless, do you follow the code of others or the code of your own, or do you go by a case-by-case basis?"
@@TheUnseenPath Anti-heroes very much are a thing. A hero is a protagonist character designed or written in a manner that embodies the audience's understanding of a heroic ideal (as arbitrary as that often is). An antihero, by contrast, is any protagonist designed in opposition to that heroic ideal: their anti-heroic ideal.
In a similar vein, "Villains" are merely antagonist characters; those set against the protagonist or hero by the central conceit of a narrative. They don't represent any ideal - heroic or anti-heroic - and thus do not function as an "opposite" to the hero, merely an obstacle to be overcome.
Hero = Someone who acts selfless for selfless reasons.
Anti-Hero = Someone who acts selfish but for selfless reasons.
Villain = Someone who acts selfish for selfish reasons.
Anti-Villain = Someone who acts selfless but for selfish reasons?
Nebula: You left out some important information. But that is the gist of it.
Hero: Ends do not justify the means, noble goals, positive outcomes.
Anti-hero: Ends justify the means, noble goals, neutral outcomes.
Villain: Ends justify the means, ignoble goals, negative outcomes.
Anti-villain: Ends do not justify the means, ignoble goals, neutral outcomes.
@@kennyholmes5196 anti heroes are more complicated.
Ends justify the means when it comes to their ultimate goal but not necessarily when it comes to other things.
Just look at Thanos.
He treats his associates well enough but not people standing in his way
Spot on with that last one, that describes stain (from my hero academia) to a tee. (And he is the best example of an anti-villain)
@@mr_indie_fan Here are some other characters often considered Anti-Villains
Anime
Garou (One Punch Man), Itachi Uchiha (Naruto), Reiner (Attack On Titan).
DC Comics
The Penguin (Batman), Ozymandias (The Watchmen), Peacemaker (Suicide Squad).
Disney
Abuela (Encanto), Anakin Skywalker (Star Wars), Amos Slade (The Fox and The Hound).
Marvel
Doctor Doom (Fantastic Four), Thanos (The Avengers), Magneto (X-Men).
Always liked anti-heroes more, they are usually more practical and pragmatic.
That's their biggest failling however, putting an end to the villains means there's no continuity to the story. The villain is slain, the beast is no more, the anti-hero fades away.
The tale is finished, the sales stop and the executives are mad they can't milk the character like they do with Batman.
I don't blame them because there's only so much to tell, no batman vs joker dynamic if joker is dead by issue 1, and yes money is important, shocker.
Then there's the Punisher, who doesn't even really have a specific villain (atleast, no long-term ones) due to his ideology and way of dispensing justice.
Not Quite. Just find a New Foe!
Because an anti hero always gets his man, since he'll do anything, or almost anything to get the villain.
He's always more cunning. Ruthless. He doesn't let the villain go in some infinite, unrealistic forgiveness cycle.
I always thought what separates a Hero from an Anti-Hero is whether they are idealistic or pragmatic. If a hero is meant to represent something, an idea of what a person should be, and their heroism revolves around their ability to do good by following that ideal, than an anti hero would be someone who wants to do good but not because of some romantic ideal but because they objectively think they should.
No, those can both be straight up heroes. In fact doing the right thing because you think you objectively ought to is pretty much the most archetypical heroic motivation you can have. Idealism vs pragmatism is simply part of the messy ambiguity that reality is made of, and can in some part define heroes, anti-heroes and even villains.
I always saw it as a means/motives divide. The hero will make sure his ends and means are both virtuous. The anti-hero believes the ends justify the means. Too far down that track they lose sight of the goal and become villains.
@@ElvenRaptor Frodo is a good example of a 'nice' anti-hero. Another example would be, ironically, Robin Hood. He isn't particularly traditionally heroic. He runs from fights. He steals. He kills people.
No cause then Spider-Man would be an anti hero
When a comment is way better than the 20 min video 😂
I actually played a character in dnd that was described as an antihero. Thing is: in his backstory he’s very much a villain, but it was his moral code that made him more of an antihero. His greatest desire was to see the good guys win, because he never saw them win in his home. In the end, he was willing to give up his soul in order to save his party. And for those who are wondering, his code is the following: “Put the needs of your allies above your own”, “Always give respect to those of good hearts and nature”, “Never break a promise unless it contradicts with the codes”.
That awesome. One of my favorite characters to play is one some might describe as an anti hero but I think is much more aptly thought of as an anti villain. Lawful evil, his goals were atrocious. He wanted to become a brutal tyrant and to plunge the world into a stable existence of perpetual war. But he was also selfless in pursuit of this goal. He would constantly throw himself into danger to protect others who he saw as useful or necessary to his goals or out of a sense of justice. Sort of the personification of ethics without morals.
He even personally died trying to stop a demon invasion because demons only destroy and how could he rule a world thwy they leveled. The sort of character who it is very easy to motivate to work with heroes but whose heart is personally black as coal.
I realy like play like Bandit's Bounty Hunter, Humanoid Hunter from Forest (man who hunting elfs for example) or Imperial Witch Hunter. Realy fun storytelling is in antihero like this.
My best story is when a bounty hunter responded to a slave's request for help by accepting a glass of water from him, hunter assumed that's he had signed a trade deal for a head because this glass. It was a slave waiter
wouldn’t that be an antivillian
Seems like a hero to me
@@Sd0k1_ALT It was pretty much a progression of sorts. From villain to anti villain to antihero.
I absolutely would like to see a video on antivillains. People talk way more about antiheros than they do antivillains, to the point where people call antivillains antiheros because they don't know the difference because they don't know what an antivillain is.
Mind explaining what an antivillain is?
@@marschique2694 thanos isn't really a sympathetic villain though, sure he has many aspects that could lead to that conclusion but he also killed an entire planets population because "reasons", he contradicts his morals a lot which is not that wanted in a sympathetic villain unless it's for character development which in the case of thanos that isn't a thing
He's a badly written pure evil villain
@@eryscalamitas1611 Have you seen eternals? If you had, you may realize that by killing half of all sentient life, he's actually saving half of all sentient life from being killed by the emerging celestials.
There is villians and there is antagonists. Anti-antagonist is like a good guy but is like a big antagonist to our protagonist
Agreed!
On a topic related to antiheroes, I quite like villain protagonist stories. Often stories blur the lines between the two, or have characters crossing the line from one to the other as they develop. A protagonist who starts out villain and never quite becomes a *traditional* hero, but slowly shifts into a more antihero role, or an antihero whose road starts blurring the lines until they become a villain... but remain the protagonist of the story. Or even someone like Darth Bane, who spends a significant portion of his story bouncing back and forth across that hazy boundary between villain and antihero.
It’s an easy explanation, guys.
A hero does good things for the greater good.
A villain does bad things with no interest of civilians.
A anti-hero does bad things for the greater good.
What does an anti-villain do?
@@alexgomez6723 I always saw it as the anti-hero does good things, but for bad reasons, whereas the anti-villain does bad things for understandable reasons
@@osheridanisn't antivillain describing Spiderman then? He is technically breaking the law.....I think
@@gheata_playz874a anti villain has bad reasons for their actions, spiderman doesnt.
@@joeyferlano9426 oshen said "anti-villains does bad things for understandable reasons" so now I'm confused 😂
You're right about antiheroes bordering on villains. Lelouch from Code Geass starts as an antihero, but by the end of the series, the line is extremely blurred.
What I find most interesting about the hero and villain divide is that it's almost universally acknowledged as a spectrum when you get down to it and yet people stubbornly insist on classifying characters into categories to such an obsessive degree that when creators went out of their way to create characters which challenged those classifications new classifications were created to fit. Even after all of this, people still complain and argue over every category, the differences between them, and what fits in each when they are ultimately just arbitrary human creations.
Nice to find another Code Geass fan out here.
Lelouch is especially interesting because he is very self aware of his antihero/antivillain status. He he was prepared to die hated by all
Lelouch is if anything almost a Christ figure by the end. He chose to take on the worlds sins and go out with them.
@@Xx_Oleander_xX does that not make him a true hero of the highest order like the 47 ronin with honor?
Punishers speech to daredevil calling him a “half measure” tells you more about frank castle than any long winded convoluted backstory ever could
But it should also be noted that frank might be an anti hero but in his mind he’s the villain of his story which in a weird way justifies everything to him.
He can be just as a bad if not worse to villains because he’s the bad guy not them.
“I’m not crazy I know what I did, I’d do it again”
And I’m the end of the day the only guy hurting frank is himself
I know this because I lived Frank’s life without all the killing but no matter how much you hate the people who took your family you hate yourself for living without them
It’s a slap in the face to them to be happy it’s wrong to love again and you’re responsible for their deaths and you failed to save them.
You’re not the hero you can’t be because when it mattered most you couldn’t save everything you had. You’re not a god or a paragon or a hero. You’re dying and angry and you want those people to feel it with you because they have no remorse and no punishment for what they did.
You watch the whole world be more concerned with drug addicts and homeless people and watch people treat them like criminals while uplifting the ones in charge the ones at fault for your pain.
You’re a wounded dog lashing out at the light peeking through.
But none of that it’s true. You’re not a monster you’re not the bad guy and you’re not why they died. You couldn’t save them, not because you were weak but because those men who hurt you do this sort of thing everyday.
If you can relate to this or even read all this I hope you know there is light at the end of the darkness no matter how blinding it is. Vengeance is a torch that burns away but light is a kindness that heals whether it’s your god, your family or your career or purpose you’ve carved out gif yourself or even just the will to survive you will make it.
This comment really touched my heart, I've gone through something tough a while ago and I feel like these were the words I needed to hear. Thank you.
One of the most precise and thoughtful comments I've ever read. Thank you.
There is a moment in the comics where a cop tells Frank Castle that he looks up to him, that he approves of what he's doing. Frank snaps at him, telling the cop that he's *not* a figure to look up to, he's not a paragon for others to follow or a gold standard. He's very aware that what he's doing, operating outside the law and committing mass murder, is wrong even if the people he's doing it to deserves it. He's self aware enough to know that he's not a good person, and hearing a *cop* say 'I'm your biggest fan' is terrible because cops are supposed to be the good guys and he truly sees himself as a villain.
30 yrs later n I still want revenge I'm disconnected to everyone
I’ve had terrible things happen, but have also seen dreadful things happen to my enemies, but not by my hand. The Mill of God might grind slowly, but it does indeed grind exceedingly fine!
Take heart, friend! One day you will hear of God’s vengeance on your enemies and you will feel horrified for them, but justified as well. These are the thoughts that keep me from being consumed by bitterness, hate and revenge, that what a man sows, that shall he also reap and if a man sows to the wind, he WILL Reap the Whirlwind!
I've watched both this and the anti-villain video and it made me think about Light Yagami from Death Note. It seems to me like Light transitions from an Anti-Hero to an Anti-Villain through the story's progression. He sets out with the goal of making the world better by ridding it of criminals, but he goes through the process of changing what it means to be a criminal, making more minute things punishable by death and finally transitions into a mode where he thinks of himself as a god.
What interests me the most about Death Note is that there are many individuals who honestly wish Kira was real. People who wish that all felonies against the law would be punishable by death. This is very interesting considering the last part in this video where you discuss how to figure the role of a character in a story. It truly goes to show that we should judge by the story's point of view rather than our own moral compass.
To me he went from anti villain to straight up villain
The title animation sequence gives me goosebumps. It's such good quality! It flows so nicely compared to the moving still illustrations of the main video. So good. Every video a masterpiece.
This is my conclusion on what is the difference between a hero, a villain and a antihero: A heroe of a story is a character who encourages you to be better, a villain discourages you of becoming your own worse, a antiheroe is a character of a story where you get to understand or even like said character, but you don´t want to become like them.
I don't find your definition of hero and villain compelling, there are heroes I enjoy but don't want to be like, such as Superman, he's almost a messianic figure because of the amount of burden he has to put up with, he's so perfect he's kind of carrying everyone else on his shoulders, I would not want to be Superman, then there are villains like Loki, who may not be a role model but who wouldn't want to be like Loki? you might argue Loki is an antihero, but that would contradict your definition of an antihero because plenty of people want to be as charismatic as Loki
I think your definition only works when we look at art as a teacher of morals, but IMO most art is not trying to be that
It might be more that the "antihero" comes out of a society that has become pessimistic when it comes to justice/governance. "They'll use the kind of methods the good guys won't." They're also usually an attempt at a "realistic" hero/villain, that are morally grey, to the point of the character often outright saying "I'm not a hero." There doesn't even really need to be an "anti-" to "antihero"/"antivillain". Any other hero opposing what another hero wants to accomplish would look like a villain to that opposed hero, and a villain opposing another villain would look like a hero to that opposed villain.
Key word: inspiration. What does each character inspire in us with their qualities? Hopefully some kind of moral integrity that’s durable enough to survive the chaos, rivalry, drama and ambivalence of our world and helps us work to achieve the balance that’s necessary for each person’s well-being. Characters that only inspire drifting can’t function as heroes. What else are villains but morally ambivalent drifters who contribute to all levels of destruction? Heroes draw a line to that. They always serve a balance that may demand maintenance at any moment. The more flawed they are the more work that balance demands. That is always relatable.
@@greyfox4838 I think @nidohime6233 is talking more about intention than reaction. Outside the DCEU, superman is written to be an ideal to strive towards. So what if there's stuff he can do that you can't? You don't need to bench press planets to clean up a park.
His villain definition is still lacking.
@@coyraig8332 It is also about on how people perceive the characters of a story, which tends to be based on their personal morality and biases. That is why antiheroes are so hard to define, because our ideas of heroism has changed overtime, and even if a character was meant to be a villain that didn't stop people to see them as heroes and viceversa.
Yknow, something curious is, anti-heroes could end up being seen differently depending on the story's point of view, like, when the anti-hero is the protagonist, we just naturally side with him, and are more understanding of his reasonings as to why he does the stuff he does, but when someone else is the protagonist, you may think of the anti-hero character differently, so, yknow.
We tend to sympathize more with the protagonist because we're more often in their head. Taylor from Worm, for instance, transitions from a naive hero to a brutal anti-hero as her story unfolds. She does a lot of terrible things and makes many mistakes in the pursuit of helping people, but we see why she does it, which is why so many (including me) still see her as a hero.
I think like this a lot with star wars, Anakin could really be seen as an anti hero if the movies looked at it from his point of view.
@@loonyshots5879 that's why I love the prequels because they do.
@@Nalimias Yeah, the prequels very much so try to make Anakin a hero but every time I watch them I just see everything else as a villain being seen through a righteous view point.
@@loonyshots5879 in the end it all came down to killing Windu. If Anakin actually let him kill Palpatine, he'd be a Jedi master, revered general and happy father.
He had the audacity to make the crispest intro without any warning
I love antihero’s more because they resemble a relatable person more than then the typical hero themselves
How do anti-heroes relate to vigilantes? Could all vigilantes be considered to be anti-heroes too? That's also a really nice animated opening. It's lovely.
This would really depend on the nature of the society they exist in. Fundamentally, a vigilante is someone who takes the law into their own hands because they disagree with the law, or with the methods used by law enforcement, or both. So, what are the laws of the land, and what are it's enforcers like? If the law and/or it's enforcers are villainous, a vigilante would likely end up being an anti-villain. If the law and/or it's enforcers are heroic, a vigilante would likely end up being an anti-hero. They would probably never be either a pure hero or a pure villain. A hero who disagreed with the laws of their society might start as a vigilante but would quickly become a revolutionary. A villain would pretend to care about law and/or justice, but actually just be a serial killer.
No. By that logic every superhero would be an anti-hero because at least a huge chunk of them does vigilante work
@@stevepensando2593 But that works from the assumption about what a vigilante is from a certain perspective. You've used the term 'vigilante work' without defining that to apply to the 'superhero', or otherwise. And most, if not all superheroes can also be seen as vigilantes because they don't work with the law, they do it by themselves, which usually results in things that the law wouldn't result in, like massive destruction of property. If they wanted it done within the law, wouldn't they let the law take its course without applying their own rules over the top of the siuation?
I was also asking more about heroes generally than one kind of fictional power fantasy.
@@Spacecookie- Even in general stories, I think it still depends on how the vigilante is characterized. Taking a superhero example (sorry, I just couldn't find a better one from a non-superhero story), this is what sets apart Batman from the Punisher. They're both vigilantes who are fueled by feelings of vengeance, but Batman is more "lawful", as in he has a strict moral code and usually works side by side with the authorities, while Frank Castle is a bit more chaotic and kills and tortures people indiscriminately. Batman is a hero, whereas Frank is an anti-hero.
Basically, vigilantes can be anti-heroes, but not necessarily all of them are. It all comes down to the characterization
I don't believe so. Most vigilantes want good things for good reasons, they aren't bad certainly.
In general, it is interesting how popular it has become in recent years to present characters in the "gray zone" of morality. And that it also affects characters who, if they were presented in this way a hundred years ago, the author would never be able to show up at any serious thematic meeting (let's say writers).
At this point honestly, anti-heroes are becoming as cliche as the traditional heroes they rose to replace.
I think anti-heroes can be great, but the concept is no longer as fresh or exciting as it used to be?
@@LEFT4BASS They're usually more relatable though, they feel more real than traditional heroes.
@@Kitusserwell i don’t want it to be relatable you noob
And then it also seems to be a slowly growing trend to write conflicts where it's not clear whatsoever who's truly the hero or villain
My favorite example is a 2016 game, Tales of Berseria; you can't really say who's good or evil, because you have completely self-interested protagonists with a strong moral compass, VS a set of "ends justify the means" antagonists, and an antagonist endgoal that ultimately just trades one set of pros & cons for another.
@@Kitusser I often go for the thought that "Characters don't need to be 'relatable' for the audience to feel for them. They just need to be _understandable."_
'Where is that line for you?' Is the most impactful question anyone can ask. Some people change from it, because nothing else could bring their attention more then someone they may become.
The perfect example of this is the 2nd, 4th, and 5th iterations of Grendel. The second one is a mother who wanted revenge by murdering who was in her way, the fourth who wanted to consolidate his power and created a authoritarian form of world peace, and the fifth being one of his soldiers protecting his leader's son from assassins. It's a really good series that needs more attention.
I think Batman could be considered an anti-hero, not because he is dark and moody... but because he is obsessed, vengeful and so loyal to his own code that nothing else matter to him (not even if it means that there will be more victims).
Batman stil follow ethics for his vigilantism. He cooperates with the police (Jim Gordon) and doesn't kill because he isn't a executioner like Wolverine, Punisher, Deadpool or any "Heroes" who breaks moral codes for the right cause. Although you could argue that it's a anti-villain instead of a anti-hero.
@@squidkaisen8689 Yeah, i guess you could say that.
Still i don't think that you necessairly have to be a killer to be an anti-hero, i think you only need to have moral flaws, like let's say... Jim Carrey in "liar liar".
Bu i want to point out i could be wrong, i'm not an expert, maybe they are not considered anti-hero.
@@squidkaisen8689 Batman doesn't kill because of morals or ethics. He doesn't kill because he knows he'd just keep killing.
He still refuses to kill even if it would save people.
He doesn't know this idea of his is true and yet he puts hundreds of lives on the line for his enshrined rules.
I dunno.
I remember a comic where Batman and Superman argued about how to deal with the negative opinion governments had about them and that they should prove they’re not a threat by submitting to demands, meanwhile Batman argues the opposite and doubles down even having a system to invade privacy a frankly superhuman level. Superman argues they can’t behave like criminals to which Batman points out that in every legal sense they are already criminals and have been since they decided to be superheroes. They both want good but Superman could be described as a Lawful Good and Batman a Chaotic Good.
They both want to help people and keep the world safe but Superman forgets that vigilantism all on its own is a crime let alone all the stuff that happens during their crime fighting and wants to work with law enforcement. Meanwhile Batman has no delusion that were they to obey the law that would mean they wouldn’t be doing what they’re doing, he’s as much a criminal as those he stops but it doesn’t stop him from doing what he thinks is right.
Antiheroes remind us life's not all black and white, heroes build up unrealistic expectations.
Where Hero gonna hessitate,Antihero going to finish the job after him
@@skell6134The no kill policy is more so they can market to children than actually something a real hero would never do. I don't see them as even anti-hero if that was what the situation required to stop a villian from going on a killing spree of innocents or continuing one. I don't consider that morally gray under that kind of context if it's clear that's the alternative to not doing that.
Idk Superman is one of the greatest characters deep inside. He's OP so his stories are about heart and his morals. Superman stories focus on the MAN rather than the SUPER. And he's as Hero as you can get. Heroes and antiheroes just tackle different kinds of problems
Heroes inspire us to be better. anti-heroes remind us that we aren't.
This is an interesting quote. I believe that life is black and white.
Can we just take a moment to appriciate this intro? It's sooo good!!! I really like your art style
I also think that Meta Knight and King Dedede are both good examples of Anti-heros, both of them do help and fight the hero, but they almost always want what’s good. Even if they do often get possessed or something when they fight Kirby.
Came for this
Personaly, I think the Punisher is a good example of an anti-hero. He tries to do good, but the problem is his methods of doing so.
Part of the reason I like bat man is the fact that he tows the line between hero and anti hero. He is even painfully aware of it. I think that is why he gave himself the limiter of not killing. That is why in the comics, mostly spinoffs, when he breaks that rule it impacts him and the reader so much.
Ironically Red Hood, virtually Batman without rules, is the perfect example of an anti-hero
also batman: leaves the villian at 1 hp and kills them financially with the american medical bills
Yes, he put the rule in place to make sure he wouldn’t spiral further. He is afraid that if he were to kill one, he wouldn’t be able stop himself from killing another.
And, he is so very close to the line of a hero and a antihero is because he is what is in between; a vigilante. He is often seen as a hero because, well, it’s fucking Gotham.
Also, in my opinion, it’s kinda funny that his first (sorta adopted) son (Richard “Dick” Grayson aka. Nightwing) became a, and I quote “That Nightwing was a better version of what batman was supposed to be.”
And his second (adopted) son (Jason Peter Todd aka. Red Hood) became pretty much Batman but without the same moral code as Batman has.
Also, if you haven’t noticed yet, I’m kinda a DC geek lol.
If i recall, Batman has his hard no-killing rule because he is 100% aware that the moment he crosses that line, he'll constantly make excuses to keep on crossing that line and spiral into becoming a full blown villain. He doesn't trust himself to resist that spiral because he is self-aware of the fact that he's a traumatized mess of a man.
Thr reason why batman is the best superhero is that he's not super at all. Just a dude with lots of time and money and has a good workout routine.
I love this channel. I’m dyslexic and can’t read very well but, watching his videos has inspired me to try to pick up books again. Thank you for reintroducing me to the world of literature!
The world of books is fantastic and I AM very happy that you are apart of it. 😄
Audiobook are amazing! And there’s a ton of setting you can do on kindle app and ereaders that can help with reading like font, word size, boldness etc. I hope you find something that helps!
@@Inamichanexactly what I was about to suggest! 😊
I always get so insecure because even though I am not American by blood, I spent most of my life there and yet, I am very bad at reading and understanding verbal or printed instructions
supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
I think that a great Anti-Villain is Evelyn from Incredibles 2. She is selfish, wishes superheroes were all either dead or i jail and mind controls and kills people to make it that way. (Evil actions, evil goal). However, she is an anti-villain because she genuinely believes that superheroes being gone will make the world a better place, and that it will make the normal citizens stronger and more self sufficient
Being WRONG does not make a villain less a villain.
I like that you speak about attractiveness and how even nowadays it's difficult to find heroes who aren't conventionally attractive. That's one of (myriad) things that bug me about the Ready Player One movie. In the book, the main hero is described as pudgy and plagued with acne and in the movie they cast a typically attractive guy... Someone like me, who bases their entire personality on being ugly, could really use more ugly heroes to identify with.
I created a few anti-heroes, and i find that their tragic life and hardship is the bases for a good story.
It molds them into great characters you just can't help but admire.
Honestly I'd create a anti hero who doesn't have any tragic back story because that's a bit cliche, he became an anti hero because he knew the heros couldn't kill villains and decided to do it themselves.
The problem is to much of it
@@brennansmith6474Jesus is my hero. Repent and believe the gospel
I did create an anti-hero too... Atleast i think i did, later on i think about the character again and he's more like a villain now and i honestly like it better that way
So, you're an edgelord with OCs. Ok
Yes actually, I would enjoy an anti-villain video, I am making myself some notes for heroes, anti-heroes, villains, and anti-villains.
I was making the third book of my school comics saga and for this one, I wanted something different, since I wasn’t using the formula of book 1 and 2. I created a character called Phi, with a preatty cool backstory, which I thought it was the villain, I actually told my friends that he was going to be the villain. With this video, I have discovered that Phi is not a villain, its the anti-hero, that wants to get revenge of the real villain of the story, the villain that I discovered was the true one after 3 books. Thank you!
Can you tell me your stuff
Hey i just found the channel last night putting on "why magic doesnt feel magic anymore" and i instantly subbed at the intro its so well animated and i love the style of your videos for background learning during gaming or laying down
Anti-Villains are a interesting topic, specially because they normally split in two groups, the " just because i am the bad guy, it dont means i need to be a bad guy" and the " i do evil now to creat a greater good, so my actions are justified"
I would think Ralph and the video games villain from WREAK-IT RALPH is a example of anti-villain since it is their job to be the villain but that doesn’t mean they are bad guys like you said in your comment.
@@SuperEasywalker Ralph and Megamind are the embodiment of this category!
So apparently a certain Crazy Lich was an anti villain, the bastard commit genocide for revenge, just to get back to the certain few people who were responsible for doing the same to his own kingdom. Blood for Blood I guess.
So I think injustice supes is the latter.
so bacicly an anti villan acts good and doesn't lack heroric traits but has a deliberate bad goal in mind? and does things that are unjustified?
Venom (specifically) and Deadpool are the two best examples as anti-heroes. (Venom, or anti-heros, are able to, and most typically do at some point, team up with Spider-Man or other hero’s because they at some point fight a villain they can’t defeat by them selves so that shows even more that they’re not villain only).
I'm happy someone else mentioned Venom. He is, in my mind, the best example of an anti hero. Venom is very willing to kill people, but for the sake of innocents. There's a reason Venom is called "The Lethal Protector"
I'd say punisher is a better example of an anti-hero.
@@perkristoffersson4153And wolverine and Blade.
Ghost rider is my favorite anti hero next to venom and punisher
@@phantompyro3103 ghost rider is baddass, I’m sorry i didn’t think of him 🔥
Great video!
In my opinion, an antiheroe is someone who used to be a good person, but got to live through so much tragedy, that he now has to redeem himself. It mostly happens through revenge. He is the kind of character who does terrible things but we can understand why he is doing it. We feel empathy because life was so harsh to them, that they had no other choice than doing so.
My favorite example would be the Joker from the 2019 movie. From the very start of the movie you feel sorry about him unable to controll his illnes and people keep pushing him to the edge. He gives his best to be a nice person and keep his life together but at some point he cant take any more and breaks. We all know how hard it is to deal with society and we feel a deep empathy for him because what he is experiencing, is not fair.
A Villian on the other hand is someon who doesnt have any understandable reason to cause chaos and harm. A great example is the guy from the movie "the invisible man". He is torturing his wife in the worst possible ways and he has no understandable reasons to do so. He actually makes an antiheroe out of his wife in the end, now that im thinking about it.
I guess the antihero is the sociopath (psychological condition which results from trauma) and the villain is the psychopath (psychological condition which is a part of yourself since birth)
There is no way Joker (2019) is a antihero. The movie basically introduces him as a villain anarchist
So, in-conclusion being affected from tragedy vs being effected/screwed over your life choices.
Psychopathy's association with evil makes more sense from the old definition, rather then a persons brain causing a neurotic personality.
This is the first time coming across your videos, and I have to say that intro is dope!
I really love the anti-heroes archetype; they're may be awful figure whose methods are morally bad, but knowing their intentionally-good goal is worth to reach for, either for themselves or someone they care, is something I'd love to see more of.
Only if properly written.
Tokisaki Kurumi is a good anti-hero
i find Anti hero's more realistic on solving problems, especially when dealing with governments in stories as realistically governments have to be dragged kicking and screaming to the "moral thing" as people always think a solution is painless. its the debate between do the ends justify the means to achieve it vs the ends do not justify the means. their comes a point people rather have results vs endless virtue signaling.
@@matthewhungerford1861 It all depend on quality of writing. Paragon can be excellent character, if he is written in context were morality do matter. It is why Superman is a excellent character, as with his power he could easily become a overlord, but he specifically choose not.
While 90's Antihero become a meme for a reason. Those were basically villains framed by story as heroes, without justifying necessity of they actions. I think Batman is good example here. He is a private detective who investigate conspiracies involving illegal government experiments. He has reason to act outside the law. While if poorly written he become just another lunatic vigilante in Gotham.
Thanos
Deadpool has always been my favorite anti hero, his humor and way of dealing with situations never ceases to make me laugh at the crazy things he does and says. He does both good and bad and fights both good and bad guys. Can’t tell you how exited i was when I heard Ryan Reynolds was playing him in the movie 😂
I'm praying so hard for a deadpool/wolverine movie. Hugh said it would be the only reason why he. Would accept to play Logan one last time
@@spacekitten357Hugh is actually going to be in Deadpool 3 so you got your wish
Ive gotta say, Deadpool is my 2nd favorite, Constantine is my actual favorite
@@magnusprime4928 and it’s freely directed by Ryan Reynalds! Meaning it’s non gonna be influenced by big corporations or anything. I’m so hyped!
@@ToastedTater420 well… let’s hope he keeps the gin and cell phone companies he owns at their distance. In Red Notice He was sure to include his Aviator Gin bottle prominently in one scene, as did Dwayne Johnson with his tequila. Or he includes them ironically
The production of these videos is gorgeous. I love everything about it :0
okay, I just found your channel and I gotta say that that's probably one of the best channel intro's I have ever seen.
I've always seen antiheroes as people who seem conventially like a villain, yet still have moral values and have redeemable qualities
That’s just a principled villain. Even Doctor Doom and Joker have moral lines they won’t cross.
@@PureGoldNeverCorrodes Yes, but the morality balances out the bad in an antihero. Its more like 50/50. No amount of moral lines will make the joker any bit redeemable, 10/90. An antihero may even side with the heroes from time to time as they don't tend to pick a side
@@melikesmuffins6676 Nah, Anti-Heroes can’t be 50/50 because then what would Anti-Villains be? Anti-Heroes are on the same side as Regular Heroes, even if it doesn’t feel like it.
@@PureGoldNeverCorrodesMagneto is one too, but he's most definitely a villain.
@@melikesmuffins6676 Again, Magneto is pretty much what you described. In fact he's more leaning towards lawful good than evil. Yet, he's still considered to be a villain even today.
My favorite examples of antiheroes are Venom and Red Hood. Their methods are gruesome, often killing and even torturing their victims. However the victims are always terrible people such as rapists or killers of innocents. And Venom/Red Hood (at least in most stories) do these things to protect/avenge innocent people.
Honestly in a lot of cases it depends on the story that the character is in more than the character itself. If a selfish, amoral person is in a story where their goals pit them against a villain who is unquestionably worse than them, then they are an antihero. If that same character is in another story where their goals interfere or directly oppose those of pure heroes, then they are a villain. It's kind of like those visual tricks you see where the same color will look completely different based on what color is surrounding it; the antihero is heroic in contrast to the villain even if they aren't heroic in a vacuum
Thats why my favorite character alignment is chaotic good & one of my least favorites is lawful good, because going by the rules isn't always the best thing to do.
There's another term for chaotic good, that i also value & see myself as, its "contingent pacifism" which means the person is a passifist unless its necessary to act.
Is there a word for a character that sees there own goals and means as devious, but coincidentily/comidically ends up always doing "good"?
I played a dnd character once that was like that. He's a cartoonishly "evil" guy who aspires to world domination, but would find himself teaching geometry to orphans because "nothing is worse than incompitent minions."
The proper terminology for such characters is "cringe".
Jokes aside, I don't think any fictional story with a bit of depth could have such a character.
Just an unsuccessful/stupid villain, but still a villain
Or you could go a different route and say that deep down he is actually not a bad person, he just thinks he wants/should be a villain for whatever reason (maybe his parents were villains and he thinks he should follow the same path, idk)
@@lucasfranke5161 I think I know a certain German who might be this (I smell a Platypus)
@@imbaby5499 Why tho?
I believe it absolutely can. Especially if they are young. Especially if world around them have convinced them that they are "bad" simply for who they are. That they are "evil" and disgusting by their very nature. That it is morally good thing to kick them whenever someone can.
It becomes really hard to associate yourself with anything "good" after that kind of treatment.This entire concept becomes stained until you'll be able to sort yourself out. Not that I would know anything about stuff like that, growing up as a trans person in a goddamn Russia... Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that there is a lot of potential for some quality drama here. And a character like that could easily wallow themself in an "evil" estetics while being... Practically anything, from full-on hero to antihero to just... Character. Misguided and full of self-loathing, but following goals that we as an adience would consider heroic.
@@izukumidoriya8600 A platypus?
*puts on fedora*
Perry the Platypus!?
The primary focus of my story I literally walked backwards into, but I am in love with, is a mlm relationship between the "perfect paragon good guy hero who can do no wrong" and the "edgy complex anti-hero who is 1 step away from being the bad guy". The way their personalities push and pull on each other, the way it dissects masculinity in a complex way... I love it.
@@futurestoryteller That conflict and tension can be a positive. The story isn't "will they get together for a happily ever after" it's "will they stay together or turn against each other?"
@@futurestorytellerspoken like someone who's not yet binged a GOOD version of either an Enemies to Lovers story or a Burnt Out Cynic and Sunshine Idealist Balance Each Other Out story.
Like, yeah it's not ways the case that "opposites" both attract and make for good relationships. But an antihero type and their opposite can very often both be explored BETTER by forcing them to question each other.
In particularly optimistic-leaning Romance plot lines like that, I would at minimum expect the more cynical character to be the way they are partly because they're hurting inside, that they've been burnt and scarred by the world in some way, and that their interactions with the more ideals-driven character would gradually lead them to a place where they can open up a little and probably gain a less depressing view of the world. The idealist may or may not have their naivety also gradually corrected for - without necessarily losing their sense of justice or devotion to their ideals, just perhaps with an understanding that such ideals take a lot of work to fulfill andvthe world isn't perfect.
And in particular, many people would say a "Heroic paragon" would by definition strive to be compassionate, understanding, just but merciful - which means the Heroic Paragon would be willing to cut the Antihero guy some reasonable slack emotionally (much as someone who believes in being kind to animals is going to forgive an agitated cat for a bit of hissing, biting and scratching) while still absolutely standing up to him if he thought it would keep them from crossing an unacceptable line.
"Grumpy cynical one is soft for the sunshine idealist one and vice versa" is one of my favorite character dynamics even outside of romance frankly, for all of those reasons and then some. Done well, it challenges both characters with some good growth- inducing opportunities for development, and brings out the best in both of them. ❤
That was a good time. Thanks for the work and effort!
1:53 I have not seen a single comment about this opening this is animating gold.
Vegeta from Dragon Ball is a great character. He's totally a Villain when he's introduced, but shifts into the role of anti-hero in the Namek/Frieza saga. Then he has a kid with Bulma and bonds with Future Trunks and from then on slowly grows towards being a true hero, largely from the pressure of having a family.
Isnt vegeta kind of an anti-villain in the namek saga before shifting to anti-hero?
@@dylanzlol7293 yeah
Love it
Ehhhhh no. No I wouldn’t say Vegeta is an anti villain during the Namek Saga. Anti villains are more people with noble goals or heroic qualities but the way they might try to attain that could be considered evil. The definitions of anti hero and such has changed a lot but Vegeta was definitely only an Anti Hero during the Cell saga. On Namek he’s still just an asshole who happens to be working against Frieza.
Like a real anti villain would be someone like Magneto. Who just wants to safeguard mutant kind from humanity even if that way is to genocide humanity. Noble intentions, goes about it like a dick. The only reason he’s not an anti hero is because his goals, while noble, set him against the heroes more often than not.
I would love to see a video about anti- villains since I never hear that word often
Stain the hero killer (from my hero academia) is a good example of an anti-villain
@@mr_indie_fan Oh I learnt about him before I got to watch more of my hero academia
omg your voice is so relaxing I'm loving it, this video is both educative and relaxing ✨
Everyone loves antiheros until they meet them irl.
I love antihero’s because they are basically a balance of both good and evil. Punisher is an example of an a antihero because of his goals. Not every hero can do good without doing a little bad. A character that confuses me is Darth Vader because when he was Anakin he was doing good but after the battle with kenobi he turned evil. So when Emperor Palpatine fought Luke, Darth Vader sacrificed himself for his son Luke. One of my favorite characters in the Star Wars series and still makes me question if he is a tragic hero or a villain.
Anyways have a great day!
Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader goes through a Paradigm Shift at the end of each trilogy. Rather than a gentle shift or a shocking reveal that he was that way the whole time he does two hard Shifts. One from Good to Evil when he marches on The Jedi Temple in Revenge of the Sith and then again from Evil to Good when he turns on The Emperor in Return of The Jedi.
Compare him to Frank Castle who was always like that or Bruce Wayne who was just a normal kid until he wasn't anymore and gradually changed into Batman.
@@kaimagnus5760 oh ok thanks
Hes neither, just a kid that got caught up in the fuckery
(Hes 100% a villain, just happens to be a maybe not so terrible father(?), I mean, bro killed a room of kids, tho now that Im thinkin about it he couldve thought of it as keeping them from what he went through, but still, cant kill kids)
@@kaimagnus5760 anakin thought he was doing the right thing when he joined palpatine and went to the temple. there was no shift to evil. the jedi stood for law and order, yet wanted to execute palpatine. thats not what good people do. so in his eyes, the jedi went evil. also, just because he save luke doesnt mean he turned good. remember when he asked luke to join him against the emperor? maybe he was just saving a son he could mold into what he wanted. granted, we know in the movie he went back to the light.
My personal rule of thumb for anti heroes is how much *edge* they have. as I grew up into my teenage years, everyone and their mums were jumping on the anti hero hype train because they were cooler, more "realistic" and "adult" than the classic idealistic heroes. so whenever I see an unreasonable amount of edgyness condensed into a character, I'm very inclined to see them as an anti hero, or at least an attempt at one. and ironically, to me the quintessential anti hero is Shadow the Hedgehog. Memes aside, he legit has the hallmarks as well as a character arc transitioning from villain to anti hero
Bad Antihero is special flavor of this issue. Better example is Mad Max.
I have a shadow plushie
He was character assassinated imo in his own game his best characterization was adventure two heroes and 2006 post 2006 era he got character assassinated further he’s decent in prime and he’s my favorite sonic character
Nice approach to different subjects, it is really high quality content. 👍👏
I just wanna say, as a new subscriber, I like how your videos work for just listening too. I love a good video essay to listen to while I draw :)
When it comes to anti-villains my favorite is Dr. Doom from the F4 comics. He saw all possible futures Dr Strange style and the only one where humanity survived is the one where he rules with absolute authority.
I remember when Dr Doom completely fixed all of the world's problems, but reversed it all because it was too easy. Or when Doom became an actual god but gave it up because he saw godhood as beneath him. Not very relevant to the conversation, I just thought it was cool
Dr. Doom is not exactly an anti-villain.
@@TheRezroI think in that context he 100% is. He has a villainous goal, world domination, but accomplishes it by helping people.
The exact opposite of having a heroic goal but accomplishing it by hurting people, i.e. an antihero.
I disagree with Stain being called either one. He is just a villain. Not anti-anything. He kills people who calls bad who actually aren't. If they were, then he would be an anti-hero.
Doom doesn’t do anything for moral reasons. He does it for his own ego with the false justification that he’s doing the right thing when he acts. He’s a villain through and through, a tyrant who pushes down decent for a future that isn’t even guaranteed.
I previously thought anti heroes as "people who didn't intend to do good but did good incidentally"
Like Deadpool's revenge isn't really"good", its just revenge. But in the end they somehow made a positive impact on the world
But we sympathize with Deadpool. If we suffered his experience we would also seek revenge.
I believe there is both positive motives and selfish (though understandably so) motives for Deadpool, since he wasn’t only seeking vengeance for himself, but also on behalf of those who had lost life or family by the hand of Francis’ experimentations.
my idea of it is a hero who doesnt have morales, like ofc the good vs bad moral but dont care if they kill the villain or not just protect innocents
I think there's more to it than that. I think Colossus' "4 or 5 moments" really sums it up: he's selfish most of the time, but he'll be a hero on the rare occasions where it really counts.
How? How did you think that?
I just found this channel and I instantly fell in love, keep up the awesome vids robo dude!!
Negl i love how everything is explained and the voice is 🙏
One of my favorite anti-heros is actually Michael Westen from Burn Notice. He tries to be the good guy at first, but as the series goes on "doing very bad things for very good reasons" in a loose cannon fashion and the stresses of the situations start to push him down some dark paths.
Definitely not as edgy or brutal as Punisher, but it's good cheesy shit, especially with Bruce Campbell as the wingman. Sam Axe is a treasure and my best example as to why Campbell would make the best Sully in any form of Uncharted media.
You! I like you. 👍
I also noticed that he just doesnt seem mentally sound towards the end (specifically when he gets back in), like at all, he seems almost feral, and yeah sam axe is undeniably the best character in the show
@@LordCrenjwhell Exactly, he slowly went from by-the-book to unhinged as the world he was in drove him into increasingly (self) destructive actions.
It’s been said that he likes the IDEA of people more than people themselves.
@@zombiemanjosh in the arc where hes being interrogated by the weird cult leader-esqe guy, he does admit to blowing up a building full of innocent people to kill a terrorist and get the job done, he might've just been like that from the start and we saw a better version of him on screen, until he got back in the agency, that is.
It’s interesting to see a hero who’s been around for so long transition into an anti-hero. My favorite is “The Shadow.” If you read the pulps from the 1930’s, he goes around finding super criminals that are doing dastardly things and uses his vast network of agents to bring down each criminal enterprise. He’s a master of disguise, speaks a dozen languages, is a master of chemistry, forensic science and deductive reasoning, a master tactician, master of stealth, and a master of Judo, Japanese Jiujitsu and boxing and an expert marksman (he did inspire the creation of Batman after all). However in the pulps he guns downs drives of henchmen and villains without a second thought. His intention isn’t to necessarily kill every criminal, sometime he leaves them unconscious but in each story he kills like 20 bad guys and is still seen as a hero by the standards back then. I guess it’s his goal that separated him from the more extreme antiheroes. His goal is to stop the villains’ plan that’s going to kill a bunch of innocent people and the bad guys happen to be in the way and are shooting at him so he shoots back and shoots to kill. As opposed to The Lone Ranger or The Phantom who both carry guns but only shoot to wound. It’s an interesting fine line.
I am a newcomer and i already love video. Your intro is well animated and unicue, also i like your style and pacing. You earn my sub👍
suppa glad I found your channel. you have really nice way of presenting content. thank you 🌻
Some of my favorite characters are those that blur the line between anti-hero and anti-villain, like Red Hood from Under the Red Hood, and Lelouch from Code Geass. It's really interesting to see these characters that truly believe they are doing the right thing, and also are shown to do legitimate good, but their methods are so violent, you can't say which they should be counted as.
In the case of Red Hood, he's a very plausible Anti-Hero. His central belief is that Batman doesn't truly do Gotham City any good because his moral code prevents him from doing what's necessary. Sure, he puts on enough of a show to keep criminals afraid, but then you have criminals who aren't afraid. Bane, Killer Croc, Mr. Freeze, The Joker. Despite all the good Batman does, at the end of the day, he just beats these greater villains up, they get tossed in jail, only for them to break out and do the whole thing over again. Meanwhile, innocent people are left at the mercy of a disastrous plot by a supervillain who should've been killed a long time ago. That's what the Red Hood believes in. Criminals shouldn't be given a chance to repeat their crimes. They don't deserve it. If Batman had killed Joker a long time ago, Jason Todd wouldn't have been kidnapped, tortured, and killed by him. If Batman had chosen to kill the Joker after that, Barbara Gordon would still be able to walk, and both her and her father would've been spared a lot of trauma.
@@elitegamer9310 yes, but also important to mention, 1) Red Hood will kill ONLY worse of the worse, like rapist and psyhopats
2) as an child who lived on the streets, he knows that when you need to do some bad to do some good
3) He knows that he cant fight crime, because Evil cant be destroyed Forever, but he knows he can CONTROL IT, to push it to it's minimum as possible
4) As an Black sheep of batfamily, we always think he would make bad batman, bad mentor and a bad father or sibling, but Thats wrong.
Out of all the kids in batfamily, Jason is most simular to Bruce, which is very scary to think about. He is the only sidekick who couldnt become his own person because everyone hated him, saw him as an replacement than rather his own person.
That's the reason why he would make a great mentor, because he Will treat his ally not as an sidekick, but as an partner, their own person
That's why he would be a great father, because he would put everything behind for his child and taught him to view in all perspectives
And finally, A good Batman? He knows killing is bad, but Bruce had killed multplie aliens so you tell me how Bruce's code is even plausiable. Jason beign nearly identical as Bruce but with much large views on things makes him not just good, but also better candidate for the cowl, even though he doesnt want it.
Red Hood and Venom are the best examples of an antihero
Deadpool will always be one of the greatest examples of what an antihero is.
Beat me to it!
Not even: Red Hood, Punisher and wolverine are way better examples
Super Heroes are for Children. No Adults here. Well as an Adult, I suggest D-Fence from Falling down (Questionable Protagonist). Or Pendergast from Falling down (Laughable Good Guy). In fact, there are no good guy in the Whole Film.
@@nomad155yeah dead pool is dangerous and unpredictable
No. He is constantly switching between an anti-hero and an anti-villain, to say that he stays an anti-hero is contradictory to the character.
In regards of deformed-disabled heroes 99 from Star wars the clone wars is my favorite.
Not only he makes a big impact he basically serves as a milestone for the animated series to be a masterpiece in my opinion.
His role in the series has elevated the story a new height.
We've seen his hard work and heroic stand and this makes watching Kamino's destruction even more heart wrenching.
Same with the commander Mayday; We've only met him for 18 minutes yet his impact on the story was massive.
That into tho. Dean. Haven’t visited this channel in a long time, and I’m glad to see it’s doing well.
Great video. It's been a veeeery long time since I saw someone discuss antiheroes without being disingenuous. It's a quality almost as common as dark heroes of the 90s.
I think there's a difference between an aesthetic anti-hero and an ideological anti-hero, which could be an interesting idea to explore
underrated comment
Oh, this is but an introduction to the whole concept of an antihero given for basic educational purposes. It is a subject not only about dramaturgy or storytelling, it is also about symbolism and history, about culture and psychology, about ethics and moral values. Very well educated people wrote entire tomes about antiheroes.
If I would need distinct some types it would be:
Reluctant hero and ex-villain. Not to mention classic bad antihero (aka 90's antihero). First type, is largely normal person, who is forced into heroic role. Despite not being exactly the type. The later is someone who was bad guy in the past, but now is on good side, though struggle with being heroic. Third type is a villain who is treated as a hero by people and plot, because they are dumb.
Anti heroes are always my favorite characters
Yeeessss
I love the term "byronic hero" and sorta want to shift it at the same time. Because going to Batman, while yes he's broody and completely cold when the bat suit goes on, but something else about his character I think I want to add to the concept of a byronic hero is the idea of "Doing things coldly and without emotion for the sake of other" of what I mean of this is like how Batman in the Justice League series had a plan to neutralize all the other members if something happened, not kill, but rather pacify. It makes sense, he's practically working with gods and if something happened mine control or just straight up turned evil, he's willing to go behind their backs and come up with the perfect "power off switch" plan for their and everyone else's sake.
I guess where I want to take the concept of a "Byronic Hero" is somewhere around the lines of "A character who posses heroic moral traits, but their methods of accomplishing goals or overall actions can feel heartless if you didn't know the motive behind it" with probably the best way to tell the difference of this and a anti-hero being: "Could this character easily be put in place as the villain of a story? If no, then its a byronic hero."
There is a joke about D&D Alignment that goes like this:
"Evil Good: They will do the right thing, but in the worst way possible. You call them when you have to, and then spend years afterwards asking yourself if it was worth it."
I think that applies to both your Bryonic Hero definition and your Anti-hero definition, but it came to mind on reading your post.
This is one of my favorite archetypes in writing as I've made a character that specifically fits these exact descriptions and I didn't even know there's a word for it.
One of my characters is what I can describe as a "Heroic sociopath," she's basically a two faced mid rank government agent that slowly becomes a high rank government administrator that is well intentioned but her country is in such a state of dissaray that a lot of things that needed to be done are usually heartless.
She's ultimately selfless and does a lot of harm to herself, her loved ones and to other people all in the name of good intentions but the way she does it feels so deeply wrong that it's hard to call her a hero despite her being selfless and doing the right thing, especially because she has such a stoic and robotic personality while doing these atrocities.
(her actions include but not limited to: ordering the execution of an entire city to prevent a certain disease from spreading, killing her own parents to prove her devotion to her country so that she can be granted a high rank position to help fix her country from further deterioration, killing her friend to prevent him from leaking classified documents that can potentially cause an uproar, engaging and supporting unethical experiments towards people in order to find a cure, etc.)
Her actions cause a lot of people's lives but in turn, she manages to save significantly more people rather than the ones she's harmed and killed so it's hard to properly identify her as being a hero or a villain because in the end, she ends up being somewhat right but the things she's done feel so wrong that I can't really call her a hero.
Anyways, sorry if it's a bit narcissistic of me to talk about a character of mine lmao, I'm just a bit passionate about it. Anyways, if anyone knows characters like these please let me know. (Also, does Thanos fit this description or does he not?)
I feel like I've seen this before
The segment where cartoon characters were mentioned reminded me of my favorite villain, Woody Woodpecker. People don't tend to think of him as such, but his goals are almost always selfish and he has no qualms about harming people outside his circle of friends. To the extend he behaves valorously, it is usually in defense of a friend.
@@futurestoryteller Bugs is very different from Woody, in that Bugs generally only messes people who mess with him first. He's also frequently valorous in his shenanigans. He aids beings he has no connection with, just as he does for himself and those he knows.
@@daveq7414 Bugs also ends up on the losing end when he _does_ start things. It's something specifically written into the structure of the classic cartoons to the same level as the rules of Roadrunner cartoons. Bugs comedic violence must be retributive, or he is now the antagonist, and the antagonist loses.
@@Sorain1 That's great! I love finding little bits of cartoon history.
I really thought I was finna get my usual PowerPoint presentation video this mans intro had me dumbfounded such beautiful visuals, amazing video fosho
Subscribed. Hope to see more amazing content in the future. Well done. Well f***in done
Sometimes it's hard to find out if a character is anti-hero, anti-villain or simply lesser evil.
Punisher wouldn’t kick a dog unless it was trying to tear his throat out, nor would he mindlessly destroy the city. Great video otherwise!
Yeah, but he has no trouble with torturing even when there's no need for it, he does worst things than many of the people he kills and he's more motivated by anger an revenge than by actually doing the right thing. He's a villain by all measures.
@@sinisternorimaki he's still getting rid of villains, so worse case scenario he is an antivillain
@@guygod217 That's like saying that Light Yagami is not a villain because he kills criminals.
In the Mass Effect trilogy, one of your squadmates - Zaeed Massani - took a job liberating a refinery from a gang running an extortion racket. Sounds like something a hero would do, except he's really only interested in killing the gang leader over a 20 year grudge and his way of trying to assassinate the gang leader and liberating the refinery is setting fire to the refinery. He then makes it perfectly clear what he's here for: "let those people burn. Vido dies WHATEVER THE COST!" That right there is a perfect example of an anti-hero kicking the dog. You could reign him back to proper anti-hero instead of villain or worse, designated hero by saving the refinery workers and allowing Vido to escape. Some rubble will pin Zaeed down, and if you pass a Persuasion check, you will say what he did wrong; he will stand down and let his old grudge go until your mission to stop the Collectors is done. He eventually does find Vido, but remembers not to cause collateral damage to stop him.
Omg I love that intro animation!! So elegant!
I found this video rabidly trying to categorize Kratos and started to notice all of the quirks inherent to what makes any characters fit any of these labels. The beautiful thing about your explanation of Thersites' role is that it hits on the subjectivity of it all.
Yes, I want to see the anti-villains video. (You'll find a lot of them in _The Legend of Korra,_ by the way; not to spoil too much, but: while two of the arc villains stretch the "anti" part, we get one unequivocal example in the first season and a whole team of them in the third.)
Isn't the entire fire nation from Avatar: TLA the quintessential anti villain? A nation that believed they're superior to others and want to bring their culture and values to everywhere in the world?
I think Greed from FMA:B and Garou from one punch man are good anti-heroes.
Like greed is selfish but he is greedy for everything he doesn't have, not just for money and power but also for people and connections
And Garou wants to be the most powerful monster and terrorise the world because it will bring everyone together to help each other
I don't know why but his voice is so calming and makes me feel so calm, plus the pictures of the robot are so cute, and he sounds so wholesome! I love it!
Honestly Im a guy who loves telling stories/entire storylines and making them up, I refer to them as au's. (alternate universes) in one storyline im working on, I have a character named Sai who I always kinda thought of as an antihero. he's driven by vengeance and a need for power because of his family being murdered, and him being the only one who was *allowed* to live (his family's killer had him dead to rights but decided to play mind games with him and let him live so he could try to avenge them, certain that Sai would fail.) his whole motive is simply to get stronger so he can avenge his family with the death of their killer. Who is one of the villains of the story, (only towards Sai the mc has literally no interaction with this guy, you caould say its kinda like a whole seperate side plot.) so in a way he is trying to do something good, since He's hunting down a mass murderer, And simply wants him dead no over the top methods needed. However he was also treated very poorly by anybody outside his family when he was young leading to him being extremely introverted and coldhearted. (his family's death also had a hand in this, because he doesnt want to lose anyone else close to him.) However this lead to an event (prior to the mc's involvement) with another character who would seem kinda like one of those side villain obstacles thats needs to be conquered this character is notmally rather sadistic however secretly is a very caring and sympathetic person and has a lot of respect for people who can defeat her. But in true Sai fashion he kills her with a decapitating strike. (his prefered method of killing is decapitation since its quick and painless) he only found out about this when trying to go to sleep and effectively seeing her ghost in his room. Being given genuine kindness from her. Because shes not completely dead yet. (details im not going to go into, trust me it would make sense if I did but this comment would be 3 times as long if I explained the world building but I will say Shes one of the few people to ever show him genuine kindness so it has a huge impact on him) so now he has a second goal that's become his main focus until completion. Bring her fully back to life. However his plan to do so involves a spell that requires the death of strong adversaries, and he's in a massive organization with plenty being preferable candidates, (again involves worldbuilding details) so he picks the morally worst of them to target and kills them, but isnt against killing others if they stand in his way. He only has one person left on his list and has been discovered at this point and left however a strike on the main villain of the story is in the works and thinking they may need backup the mc asks Sai for help making an offer he cant refuse since it would still grant him the necessary strength to perform the revival spell and then some extra so he agrees after that he brings his friend fully back to life and you could say the events of the story end there (at the moment) but I have a continuation of this story with Sai as the main character which finishes his character arc. With him completing his original mission of avenging his family now with his friend along for the ride. Afterwards you could basically say he retires from the story with his own little happy ending. Im still kinda stuck on wether or not hes an antihero or villain because he has no truely evil goals but has some rather twisted morals considering how he goes about it. Feel free to decide ig and sorry for the essay and if its hard to understand. Byee
Very very interesting in my Opinion. I like the Take and plot.
*Take my money* .
@@StephenLuckas thanks I really appreciate that, because I tend to doubt my own stories and keep them to myself. Recently I've been trying to break out of that, so I've been telling friends and similar stuff. And I'm always open to people telling me they don't suck lol anyway thanks again! 🙂 (I should also mention that another reason he uses decapitation as his primary fishing strike is because it guarantees a kill. Also I changed his story a little bit, instead of there being only one person left on his list, he's out of people and so is kind of stuck when the mc approaches him with that deal.)
I have been trying to write my own Stuff too, slowly.
Without seeking anyone who might be interested, but i will create something slowly, with an entire different world it is set in.
I have been writing a lot over the Years, either i lost it by my Dead Phone or i just lost Ideas.
Currently it is just one i am working on, which has connection to my YT Name.
@@Sarah_Mist lol thanks! 😂 Unfortunately I literally can't draw or animate in any sense, despite me wanting to make books or shows on my stories. So hopefully I can sort that out.
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WOW! Oh "THIS STORY WILL RUIN YOUR MIND (The King in Yellow)" video in Nov 5, 2021...
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@@TheTaleFoundry Oh it's new "Magic Systems don't feel Magical" video, NOICE!
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The animation of you grabbing the book and opening it, was absolutely amazing!!!!!
I love your videos never stop posting please
BRO THIS ANIMANION IS FIRE 1:54
By the end of this video I was reminded so much of Raskolnikov from crime and punishment. One of my favorite books, with an extremely unclear conclusion on good and evil.
Had you done one on anti villains yet? 🤔 If not... is it in the plans? 🤩
I’ve played Rabbids Go Home, Pumpkin Jack, and Destroy All Humans.
Thanos and Killmonger come to mind...
If they make one they absolutely have to mention stain from My hero academia, he is peak anti-villain.
@@PrayingForTheMeteorless so killmonger; but movie thanos yes. Comic thanos no.
@@mr_indie_fanI identified with Killmonger. But we'll agree to disagree. Thanos is a definitive "yes".
How have i never seen this channel before. Top tier production quality
Love this video you have a great narrator voice
The doctor from arknights might be the best example of an anti-hero I have seen, a man with good intentions having no moral obstacles
This channel introduced me to what is now my favorite horror book of all time, "The King In Yellow" Very grateful for that. This is a good video and love the production quality on your opening.
1:02 literally just describes the MC of Worm lmao
of what?
Oh my goodness the animation and the voice… I love this!
Watching this, I got reminded of an anime I watched years ago. It's called Charlotte, where the protagonist slowly went from hero, to antihero, to full on villain(Albeit trauma played a big role in his mental shift) as he craves for more power and slowly starts forgetting his initial goal.
It's a great anime. Very heartwarming start and ending.
A good anti-hero I found, that actually uses the hero part, is Sunless from Shadow Slave. And another character from the same book, Nephis. They’re both anti-hero’s but are very different. I feel like they perfectly encompass what my image of an anti-hero should be.
Sunless can be very heroic sometimes but he is mega selfish,I don't really know where to classify him,Nephis is psychopathically selfish and villainous but will never will hurtpeople without a legit reason or subjugate people under her by force or leave those she believes to be helpless to suffer
fancy to meet fellow readers here
Thank you for your videos.
Man that coloured animated parts are beautiful
THAT INTRO THO ! love the animation