The FlashBack in the mental ward really caught me off guard bro. Those feelings the first time i recognized Dorothy's House in a Pure shock. Rest in Peace the Wizard of Oz.
@@randomnerd9088 It's muddy with fairy tales as there's no clear "real" version behind the "fake" backstory. They are how they're written (you can say "well, the original version from the real book", but in my opinion that would be a fictional character that isn't real, not these actual beings created by Great Ones). A lot of people think that they are real humans made into the fairy tales (in this case the original Dorothy being the girl in the Mental Ward) but I think there's too many hints against that particular scenario. The Mental Ward Dorothy speaks of an apprentice that is obviously Grimm. The Mental Ward was part of the King in Yellow's Garden and in direct contact with the Crimean Hospital where Florence is until it was summoned into Wonderland by that one creature in the Tavern (you can see him chanting "Ia, Ia, Hastur"). For that Dorothy to be the real foundation that predates BS1, she would have had to be a real girl in a mental hospital that was abducted by the King in Yellow alongside the rest of the Mental Ward, that Leaf then abducted from his Garden, and then, inspired by her delusions, Leaf would have decided to make them real with Grimm. This is plausible but in my opinion too much of a stretch compared to the other option because of the following: In Black Souls 2, her fairy tale is different and says that she died when her house crashed after a tornado. In the original story, she gets whisked away from the real world by said tornado. In the Mental Ward notes, she mysteriously disappeared from her room, then the room you have the vision on shows her destroyed house in the middle of a storm and you can find her fairy tale, which is the equivalent of her corpse. This to me rules out that it is simply a schizo vision that you have in the place Dorothy once lived, and it's clear evidence of a rewrite. In Wonderland, her story ends in the crash, and that's where you find the book, and the book is real. She might have even killed herself that way on purpose, which would explain why she says she "gave up". If her Mental Ward self predates BS1 and she disappeared from the Ward because of Leaf, then she'd have had to come back to die there post-Leaf in BS2 anyways. Also her fairy tale is always named "The Wizard of Oz" and that's where the gender stuff comes from, as she is a composite character of Dorothy and the actual Wizard. The real book is not named after the MC but a side character.
@HopelessEvenings I agree about the timeline. However, we should consider it's perfectly possible that the mental hospital existed before the degradation of Wonderland (as in when the tea-party was still going and the actual human part of Grimm was an Arthurian knight). So it's pretty plausible that more than just Caroll or whatever human TCO fell in real love with was stolen by Leaf and then reintegrated into the eldritch br**ding program to die. Likewise, I think that the character and princess backstories given in Elysium are BS. It's pretty much confirmed that Red Hood and all the princesses are real people with fairy tale personas projected onto them, and even Red Hood carries some memories from her first iteration. There are also a lot of other seemingly real humans used throughout both Wonderland, Node's / Crimea War garden, and Elysium. I don't think Leaf was br**ding eldritch beings like in Wonderland, so I believe that BS1 characters are all human. I do not think that Dorothy was a real man taken and turned into a woman, especially since the version in Wonderland / Mental Ward is pretty clearly someone who has been deluded into a gender crisis.
@@randomnerd9088 Do you remember if there’s any references/clues to the fairy tales being real people? It’s been a while since I play. I know there’s references to the memory tampering for some characters but that’s it.
Kinda funny that if you choose to say "I didn't betray you" during hotel flashback in bs2, she answers "Oh yeah? And my head started bleeding on it's own then?"
Dorothy best girl next to Miranda. Most people seem to have concluded that there's a clear timeline where a girl becomes a Mental Ward patient and then gets turned into Dorothy by Leaf and put into BS1, but the comment in the Mental Ward about the apprentice she is so tsundere for + the fact that the book is in the house ruins and the fairy tale says she died in the crash always made me think that she got rewritten after BS1 and the Mental Ward stuff happens after.
Actually it could be that was her dream self. Wonderland takes place in the dreamlands, the place you go in your dreams. So they could of been the same person existing in 2 places.
Basically. Leaf/Mary Sue kidnapped a ton of woman alongside Grimm (or rather, the writers she used as his base) and altered their memories, making them think they are fairy tales to better blend into that psychotic fairies twisted plot.
While she is classified as a creator god, her power is change, not actual creation. She can only make stuff on a preexisting basis. e.g Grimm does not actually have a soul that belongs to him, she yoinked 8 existing souls from the afterlife as a basis.
Soooo what if grim is actually just some random dude leaf yoinked? Elizabeth was reds mother who left her to the grandmother but she's also the grandmother she killed. Without leaf overseeing it they can tell their memories make no sense and even contradict.
There was an event with the cats?! What! And it was a sweet moment too?! Man you're truly doing an insane amount of work finding events that can be easily missed.
So, does this mean that Dorothy is dead and deleted, or that she somehow found a way to escape or blend in thanks to Node? What do the notes in the mental hospital mean? What does she mean by giving up like she did? I'm going fucking insane.
Dorothy was the girl in the notes and she was kidnapped from the real world by Mary Sue and placed her in her garden. Mary brainwashed her, making her believe that she actually is the witch Dorothy and that she's living in a fairy tale.
In my opinion the timeline goes: BS1 Dorothy stuff -> Dorothy then gets rewritten once the Garden changes -> in this continuity she is a Mental Ward patient, escapes by slipping into the word of fairytales, then dies in the tornado due to the new fairy tale end. An alternate interpretation is that Dorothy was originally a real world woman from the Mental Ward abducted by the King in Yellow like the other stuff from Crimea, then turned into Dorothy (fairy tale) by Leaf and that the BS2 segment predates BS1, but I never bought into that scenario.
@@HopelessEvenings but we know that Mary Sue kidnaps real world people and brainwashes them. Dorothy from bs1 is a girl from the real world just like all the other heroines of the first game.
When this happened in BS2 I was pretty sad. Never expected to get this when I first played through BS2 because as i've mentioned before it is very easy to miss a lot of content or not realize of certain mechanics until it is too late. Looking at you JubJub >_> (I got Jubbed and didn't even realize it until I looked up why the heroines die/kill each other/ Or kill themselves if you don't eliminate JubJub).
Sometimes it takes a real man to become the best girl.
Except she was always a girl
That’s true but where is Alice?
gigguk
The FlashBack in the mental ward really caught me off guard bro. Those feelings the first time i recognized Dorothy's House in a Pure shock. Rest in Peace the Wizard of Oz.
F
F
F
F
Fun fact: Dorothy was never a dude, Mary Sue just programmed her to think that for shits and giggles.
That depends on if you interpret the Mental Ward Dorothy as predating the BS1 version of her or not.
@@HopelessEvenings I think it's safe to say that the background history of Elysium is all constructed.
@@randomnerd9088 It's muddy with fairy tales as there's no clear "real" version behind the "fake" backstory. They are how they're written (you can say "well, the original version from the real book", but in my opinion that would be a fictional character that isn't real, not these actual beings created by Great Ones).
A lot of people think that they are real humans made into the fairy tales (in this case the original Dorothy being the girl in the Mental Ward) but I think there's too many hints against that particular scenario.
The Mental Ward Dorothy speaks of an apprentice that is obviously Grimm. The Mental Ward was part of the King in Yellow's Garden and in direct contact with the Crimean Hospital where Florence is until it was summoned into Wonderland by that one creature in the Tavern (you can see him chanting "Ia, Ia, Hastur"). For that Dorothy to be the real foundation that predates BS1, she would have had to be a real girl in a mental hospital that was abducted by the King in Yellow alongside the rest of the Mental Ward, that Leaf then abducted from his Garden, and then, inspired by her delusions, Leaf would have decided to make them real with Grimm. This is plausible but in my opinion too much of a stretch compared to the other option because of the following: In Black Souls 2, her fairy tale is different and says that she died when her house crashed after a tornado. In the original story, she gets whisked away from the real world by said tornado. In the Mental Ward notes, she mysteriously disappeared from her room, then the room you have the vision on shows her destroyed house in the middle of a storm and you can find her fairy tale, which is the equivalent of her corpse. This to me rules out that it is simply a schizo vision that you have in the place Dorothy once lived, and it's clear evidence of a rewrite. In Wonderland, her story ends in the crash, and that's where you find the book, and the book is real. She might have even killed herself that way on purpose, which would explain why she says she "gave up". If her Mental Ward self predates BS1 and she disappeared from the Ward because of Leaf, then she'd have had to come back to die there post-Leaf in BS2 anyways.
Also her fairy tale is always named "The Wizard of Oz" and that's where the gender stuff comes from, as she is a composite character of Dorothy and the actual Wizard. The real book is not named after the MC but a side character.
@HopelessEvenings
I agree about the timeline. However, we should consider it's perfectly possible that the mental hospital existed before the degradation of Wonderland (as in when the tea-party was still going and the actual human part of Grimm was an Arthurian knight). So it's pretty plausible that more than just Caroll or whatever human TCO fell in real love with was stolen by Leaf and then reintegrated into the eldritch br**ding program to die.
Likewise, I think that the character and princess backstories given in Elysium are BS. It's pretty much confirmed that Red Hood and all the princesses are real people with fairy tale personas projected onto them, and even Red Hood carries some memories from her first iteration. There are also a lot of other seemingly real humans used throughout both Wonderland, Node's / Crimea War garden, and Elysium. I don't think Leaf was br**ding eldritch beings like in Wonderland, so I believe that BS1 characters are all human. I do not think that Dorothy was a real man taken and turned into a woman, especially since the version in Wonderland / Mental Ward is pretty clearly someone who has been deluded into a gender crisis.
@@randomnerd9088 Do you remember if there’s any references/clues to the fairy tales being real people? It’s been a while since I play. I know there’s references to the memory tampering for some characters but that’s it.
Kinda funny that if you choose to say "I didn't betray you" during hotel flashback in bs2, she answers "Oh yeah? And my head started bleeding on it's own then?"
Dorothy best girl next to Miranda. Most people seem to have concluded that there's a clear timeline where a girl becomes a Mental Ward patient and then gets turned into Dorothy by Leaf and put into BS1, but the comment in the Mental Ward about the apprentice she is so tsundere for + the fact that the book is in the house ruins and the fairy tale says she died in the crash always made me think that she got rewritten after BS1 and the Mental Ward stuff happens after.
Actually it could be that was her dream self. Wonderland takes place in the dreamlands, the place you go in your dreams. So they could of been the same person existing in 2 places.
Wait does this mean all heroines in black souls are real human that get kidnap by Outer God WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK??????
Basically. Leaf/Mary Sue kidnapped a ton of woman alongside Grimm (or rather, the writers she used as his base) and altered their memories, making them think they are fairy tales to better blend into that psychotic fairies twisted plot.
While she is classified as a creator god, her power is change, not actual creation. She can only make stuff on a preexisting basis. e.g Grimm does not actually have a soul that belongs to him, she yoinked 8 existing souls from the afterlife as a basis.
Soooo what if grim is actually just some random dude leaf yoinked?
Elizabeth was reds mother who left her to the grandmother but she's also the grandmother she killed. Without leaf overseeing it they can tell their memories make no sense and even contradict.
@@lpfan4491
Leaf, a god with Aphantasia.
Can't imagine a T-pose spinning Grimm.
There was an event with the cats?! What! And it was a sweet moment too?!
Man you're truly doing an insane amount of work finding events that can be easily missed.
Dorothy, broooooo
So, does this mean that Dorothy is dead and deleted, or that she somehow found a way to escape or blend in thanks to Node? What do the notes in the mental hospital mean? What does she mean by giving up like she did? I'm going fucking insane.
The average black souls player experience
Oh no, he's gaining SEN.
Quick, someone get him Black Well's shots.
Dorothy was the girl in the notes and she was kidnapped from the real world by Mary Sue and placed her in her garden. Mary brainwashed her, making her believe that she actually is the witch Dorothy and that she's living in a fairy tale.
In my opinion the timeline goes: BS1 Dorothy stuff -> Dorothy then gets rewritten once the Garden changes -> in this continuity she is a Mental Ward patient, escapes by slipping into the word of fairytales, then dies in the tornado due to the new fairy tale end. An alternate interpretation is that Dorothy was originally a real world woman from the Mental Ward abducted by the King in Yellow like the other stuff from Crimea, then turned into Dorothy (fairy tale) by Leaf and that the BS2 segment predates BS1, but I never bought into that scenario.
@@HopelessEvenings but we know that Mary Sue kidnaps real world people and brainwashes them. Dorothy from bs1 is a girl from the real world just like all the other heroines of the first game.
16:28
Somewhere in these eyes
I'm on your side *sad music
Don't know, don't care, FEMALE ENOUGH I LOVE DOROTHY TO THE DAY I DIE
When this happened in BS2 I was pretty sad. Never expected to get this when I first played through BS2 because as i've mentioned before it is very easy to miss a lot of content or not realize of certain mechanics until it is too late. Looking at you JubJub >_> (I got Jubbed and didn't even realize it until I looked up why the heroines die/kill each other/ Or kill themselves if you don't eliminate JubJub).
I think it's time for you to review Black Souls 2, because there are more oddities.
like?
@@EvilArchive Like how to get every woman's route in Black Souls 2, of course this won't be easy.
20 часов по Бишкекскому времени суток вышло отличное и познавательное видео в 8 января
Call yourself what ever you want Teacher, all I see is a lady! xD
Based Blue Archive fan
Fellas is it gay to consider Dorothy as both best girl and boy?
i dont want to remember, the living must live
Grifiin when bro😭
tbh i felt really bad for her .equal to red hood for me
ummmm... how to find miranda in black souls 2?
she's completely dead, only thing left is Meryphilia in beach of grief