Honest addition to your story. Sometimes, things are inexplicable and I very much doubt it is your rebuilding skills at fault, Marc. Keep up the good work, and keep your chin up. Still a top watch on my subscriptions
Hi mate Thanks, I’ve already got another spare used spindle I had laying around back in the machine so it’s back up and running it’s job again Maybe when I have time I will have another go at the failed one 👍
Don't know how haas does it in UK but they finance new machines here in the US and at a better rate than any lender would give. I've got 3 machines financed with them and the work just Flys out the door now. Found your channel trying to fix my old vf3 from 1998 and it helped us out greatly. It at least might make sense if a big job falls into your lap.
Hi I totally agree that if i ever get to the point where i am confident that i have enough future work to make payments then i would definitely look into a newer machine, being able to fix them myself is great but id much rather a machine that didnt break down and just made money lol
If you do buy bearing again, angular contacts to be specific. Buy a matched set, that way the preload is set and there is no fear of messing with it. Id also check the bore id to bearing od fit. The cage breaking into pieces is a new one for me, ive had contamination destroy and bind up bearings before. Im a millwright in a machine shop (from my limited experience ^^)
Hi This was a matched set of angular contact bearings, so yeah the pre load is already pre ground into the races At some point when I have time I will remove the bearings and look into it a little more
Great video on the trials and tribulations of being an owner, operator, and maintenance all in one. Your previous video of this spindle helped me make the decision to dig into my spindle on my Taiwanese VMC, and all I had to do was repack the lower mains and replace the top two bearings since they felt too loose. When I was doing all the research, and what to watch out for, and at what point it tends go wrong, was when torqueing the bearing nut and height variations from the new bearings to the spacers. All the companies I watched made it sound like the slightest variation could result in an imbalance, early fatigue, or failure. My hope is that I get two years of running before I need repairs or service, and at that point I'll send it out for the service and a full schematic of the entire cartridge. Sounds like you're in a good position to make a call that best suits you. I'd love to have a spare spindle on hand so that one can be serviced and housed, and the other keeps turning.
Thanks, yeah im sure there are all sorts of critical things that i did not bother with but it was only ever intended to be a cheap self repair and to be fair it lasted 11 months of solid use so it was not too bad In an ideal world id like to send my 2 spare spindles out for proper full rebuilds and have them ready on the shelf but im not financially at that position yet and work has been slow Being able to pull the spindle apart and get yourself going again is always a bonus if it gets you out of trouble for a while or until you can afford a replacement Thanks for watching
Thanks for watching, Yeah somethings we just never know the answer too and to be honest im not that fussed as it was a self rebuild and i got 11 months out of it so it is what it is
Could just be crap bearings! It does happen sometimes. Modern quality control is sometimes lacking. They trust modern machinery too much and defects can sjip through.
They are still a great machine for their price range in general but you always have to remember that my machines are all 24 to 27 years old now but they are still making money. Although yes i would love a nice Okuma or DMG or a Doosan etc but they are way way out of my budget unfortunately
Enjoyed the vid, what I would say is check the rotational speed of the bearings you have fitted, I'm not totally sure, but fibre cages in a high speed spindle bearings ? That could be your problem, if not I would check the cage for excessive wear (the ones broken) could be oil starved at high speed and the bearing picked up on the cage braking it? Anyway, hope you find the solution to the problem mate 😉
Hi The bearing cages are not fibre, they are Phenolic, here is a copy and past of the bearing specs for the main lower bearings and the top support bearings High Precision Angular Contact Ball Bearings (standard series) have a line connecting the contact points drawn in the radial direction which is called the contact angle. This contact angle makes the bearing suitable for accommodating radial loads, single direction axial loads and a combination of both, these bearings are generally used in pairs but can also be used in triplex sets, quadruplex sets or multiplex sets, 70xx, 72xx and 79xx series have three types of contact angle 15 degree (C), 25 degree (A5) and 30 degree (A), all come with two types of cage design either phenolic (TR) or polyamide (TYN), CTR = 15 Degree contact angle DU = Pair of bearings paired universal L= Light preload P3 = Precision rating d: 60mm D: 95mm B: 18mm Basic load ratings: dynamic 35.0kn, static 30.5kn Permissible axial load: 19.9kn Contact angle (degree) 15 Factor: 15.7fo Effective load center: 19.4mm Mass: 0.405kg Limiting speed grease: 14 900 Limiting speed oil: 22 600 High Precision Angular Contact Ball Bearings (standard series) have a line connecting the contact points drawn in the radial direction which is called the contact angle. This contact angle makes the bearing suitable for accommodating radial loads, single direction axial loads and a combination of both, these bearings are generally used in pairs but can also be used in triplex sets, quadruplex sets or multiplex sets, 70xx, 72xx and 79xx series have three types of contact angle 15 degree (C), 25 degree (A5) and 30 degree (A), all come with two types of cage design either phenolic (TR) or polyamide (TYN), CTR = 15 Degree contact angle DU = Pair of bearings paired universal L= Light preload P3 = Precision rating d: 50mm D: 80mm B: 16mm Basic load ratings: dynamic 26.0kn, static 21.9kn Permissible axial load: 13.9kn Contact angle (degree) 15 Factor: 15.7fo Effective load center: 16.7mm Mass: 0.259kg Limiting speed grease: 17 700 Limiting speed oil: 27 000 I have fitted a spare spindle and im back up and running next day but maybe i will have another go at this in the future Thanks for watching Marc
Maybe the tail of the axle remained a bit bent even after that company tried to straighten it up and as a result the spinning plane of the top bearings is no longer parallel to the spinning plane of the bottom bearings......that fracture of the cage is not a manufacturing fault ; it is the result of a lot of strain. I wouldn't rush to change the bearings with new ones . You may want to measure the axle for straightness first.....
Hi Yes that's a good possibility, they got it almost perfect but maybe that's not good enough? maybe it was just a random failure which is a lot less likely but i guess il never know Maybe in the future il have another go at it
The logical questions, bearings from a trusted source, they were original branded. Any chance you checked the date on the bearings, the reason for asking is that 10 years ago the market was flooded with fakes.. Could the ever so slight bend put more force on the top bearing pair ?
The bearing were bought from a private seller on ebay but had original packaging etc so i would never know, the main bearings i bought from a trusted supplier and yeah maybe the bend caused the issue but i would of expected that to be an issue sooner rather than after 11 months of everyday use
Haas are still a great machine for certain people like me, they have a huge knowledge base all over the web, they can be worked on very easily and the old stuff can be very affordable and still make money with them, as i said to someone else in a reply earlier, i would love a high end machine but its not in my budget or my work load to be able to afford one unfortunately
Honest addition to your story. Sometimes, things are inexplicable and I very much doubt it is your rebuilding skills at fault, Marc. Keep up the good work, and keep your chin up. Still a top watch on my subscriptions
Hi mate
Thanks, I’ve already got another spare used spindle I had laying around back in the machine so it’s back up and running it’s job again
Maybe when I have time I will have another go at the failed one 👍
Don't know how haas does it in UK but they finance new machines here in the US and at a better rate than any lender would give. I've got 3 machines financed with them and the work just Flys out the door now. Found your channel trying to fix my old vf3 from 1998 and it helped us out greatly. It at least might make sense if a big job falls into your lap.
Hi
I totally agree that if i ever get to the point where i am confident that i have enough future work to make payments then i would definitely look into a newer machine, being able to fix them myself is great but id much rather a machine that didnt break down and just made money lol
If you do buy bearing again, angular contacts to be specific.
Buy a matched set, that way the preload is set and there is no fear of messing with it.
Id also check the bore id to bearing od fit.
The cage breaking into pieces is a new one for me, ive had contamination destroy and bind up bearings before.
Im a millwright in a machine shop (from my limited experience ^^)
Hi
This was a matched set of angular contact bearings, so yeah the pre load is already pre ground into the races
At some point when I have time I will remove the bearings and look into it a little more
Great video on the trials and tribulations of being an owner, operator, and maintenance all in one. Your previous video of this spindle helped me make the decision to dig into my spindle on my Taiwanese VMC, and all I had to do was repack the lower mains and replace the top two bearings since they felt too loose. When I was doing all the research, and what to watch out for, and at what point it tends go wrong, was when torqueing the bearing nut and height variations from the new bearings to the spacers. All the companies I watched made it sound like the slightest variation could result in an imbalance, early fatigue, or failure.
My hope is that I get two years of running before I need repairs or service, and at that point I'll send it out for the service and a full schematic of the entire cartridge. Sounds like you're in a good position to make a call that best suits you. I'd love to have a spare spindle on hand so that one can be serviced and housed, and the other keeps turning.
Thanks, yeah im sure there are all sorts of critical things that i did not bother with but it was only ever intended to be a cheap self repair and to be fair it lasted 11 months of solid use so it was not too bad
In an ideal world id like to send my 2 spare spindles out for proper full rebuilds and have them ready on the shelf but im not financially at that position yet and work has been slow
Being able to pull the spindle apart and get yourself going again is always a bonus if it gets you out of trouble for a while or until you can afford a replacement
Thanks for watching
Thanks for all your honesty, sorry you didn't see an obvious reason for the failure, that can be so frustrating.
Thanks for watching,
Yeah somethings we just never know the answer too and to be honest im not that fussed as it was a self rebuild and i got 11 months out of it so it is what it is
Could just be crap bearings! It does happen sometimes. Modern quality control is sometimes lacking. They trust modern machinery too much and defects can sjip through.
Hi Yeah its definitely possible
I would of thought if there was a major issue it would not of lasted the 11 months daily use its had
HAAS things, i have seen so many issues with Haas, in portugal i have seen many people sell the haas and change for other machines.
They are still a great machine for their price range in general but you always have to remember that my machines are all 24 to 27 years old now but they are still making money.
Although yes i would love a nice Okuma or DMG or a Doosan etc but they are way way out of my budget unfortunately
Enjoyed the vid, what I would say is check the rotational speed of the bearings you have fitted, I'm not totally sure, but fibre cages in a high speed spindle bearings ? That could be your problem, if not I would check the cage for excessive wear (the ones broken) could be oil starved at high speed and the bearing picked up on the cage braking it? Anyway, hope you find the solution to the problem mate 😉
Hi
The bearing cages are not fibre, they are Phenolic, here is a copy and past of the bearing specs for the main lower bearings and the top support bearings
High Precision Angular Contact Ball Bearings (standard series) have a line connecting the contact points drawn in the radial direction which is called the contact angle. This contact angle makes the bearing suitable for accommodating radial loads, single direction axial loads and a combination of both, these bearings are generally used in pairs but can also be used in triplex sets, quadruplex sets or multiplex sets,
70xx, 72xx and 79xx series have three types of contact angle 15 degree (C), 25 degree (A5) and 30 degree (A), all come with two types of cage design either phenolic (TR) or polyamide (TYN),
CTR = 15 Degree contact angle
DU = Pair of bearings paired universal
L= Light preload
P3 = Precision rating
d: 60mm
D: 95mm
B: 18mm
Basic load ratings: dynamic 35.0kn, static 30.5kn
Permissible axial load: 19.9kn
Contact angle (degree) 15
Factor: 15.7fo
Effective load center: 19.4mm
Mass: 0.405kg
Limiting speed grease: 14 900
Limiting speed oil: 22 600
High Precision Angular Contact Ball Bearings (standard series) have a line connecting the contact points drawn in the radial direction which is called the contact angle. This contact angle makes the bearing suitable for accommodating radial loads, single direction axial loads and a combination of both, these bearings are generally used in pairs but can also be used in triplex sets, quadruplex sets or multiplex sets,
70xx, 72xx and 79xx series have three types of contact angle 15 degree (C), 25 degree (A5) and 30 degree (A), all come with two types of cage design either phenolic (TR) or polyamide (TYN),
CTR = 15 Degree contact angle
DU = Pair of bearings paired universal
L= Light preload
P3 = Precision rating
d: 50mm
D: 80mm
B: 16mm
Basic load ratings: dynamic 26.0kn, static 21.9kn
Permissible axial load: 13.9kn
Contact angle (degree) 15
Factor: 15.7fo
Effective load center: 16.7mm
Mass: 0.259kg
Limiting speed grease: 17 700
Limiting speed oil: 27 000
I have fitted a spare spindle and im back up and running next day but maybe i will have another go at this in the future
Thanks for watching
Marc
Maybe the tail of the axle remained a bit bent even after that company tried to straighten it up and as a result the spinning plane of the top bearings is no longer parallel to the spinning plane of the bottom bearings......that fracture of the cage is not a manufacturing fault ; it is the result of a lot of strain. I wouldn't rush to change the bearings with new ones . You may want to measure the axle for straightness first.....
Hi
Yes that's a good possibility, they got it almost perfect but maybe that's not good enough? maybe it was just a random failure which is a lot less likely but i guess il never know
Maybe in the future il have another go at it
thanks for the video
Your welcome, i thought people would find it interesting
Do you listen tp bearings in use with a stethoscope.
Hi
No these old Haas machines are so noisy you would hear too much other noise lol
That's the sound the VF3 will make after my training course with you 🤣
The logical questions, bearings from a trusted source, they were original branded. Any chance you checked the date on the bearings, the reason for asking is that 10 years ago the market was flooded with fakes.. Could the ever so slight bend put more force on the top bearing pair ?
Id hope not lol but i have done that myself a few times on my other mill
The bearing were bought from a private seller on ebay but had original packaging etc so i would never know, the main bearings i bought from a trusted supplier and yeah maybe the bend caused the issue but i would of expected that to be an issue sooner rather than after 11 months of everyday use
That is a bummer brother. Have You watched Robrenz video on spindle rebuilds?
Yeah I’ve seen his video a couple times
Rebuilding to those standards is how it should be done but definitely not how I did it lol
another reason not to BUY a HAAS
Haas are still a great machine for certain people like me, they have a huge knowledge base all over the web, they can be worked on very easily and the old stuff can be very affordable and still make money with them, as i said to someone else in a reply earlier, i would love a high end machine but its not in my budget or my work load to be able to afford one unfortunately