What's Up With Yamaha's NanoXcel 2 Hulls? WCJ Quick Topics
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- Опубліковано 12 вер 2024
- This Quick Topic segment was taken from our full-length podcast titled "Waterbox Autopsy & RXP-X Hull Walkthrough" and can be viewed in its entirety HERE: • Waterbox Autopsy & RXP...
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“Flex agent” it’s used on rubber automotive bumpers.it’s amazing that their paint supplier did not recommend this from the being.
You live and learn, I suppose.
I have been in automotive body shop environment for 30 years. No painter I know adds flex additive anymore with current urethane paints for bumpers. I don't know what kind of paint Yamaha is using but something is up. Flex will make the paint softer so it probably won't stay as nice and shiny. I wonder if you can put gel coat on top of the Nano.....
@@PayNoTax-GetNoVote maybe it’s only done regionally but I worked in high end dealerships and we always used it. We used PPG products.
Thanks for all the advice/information
New to this and learning a lot...
Glad to hear it!
Yamaha just needs to leave the automotive paint to automobiles and pony up the extra dollars on gel coat. This will tarnish their rep.
We're not sure the reason, but there clearly is one why Yamaha went this route.
2021 and above are no issues. The new ones are rock solid
Same paper thin paint.
Most Automotive paints are Acrylic Urethane As it cures it gets very hard. Still maintains a rubber like flexibility. Adding flex additive slows the thru cure helping the paints durability and flexibility. Somehow their process makes the paints brittle maybe too much gardener or forced dried to fast
Possibly so. Guaranteed they've looked into their flashing process.
It’s called “Flex Agent”. The auto industry has been using it since the late 70’s.
Yes, too bad Yamaha is just now getting with it.
Say what you will about Polytec, but this is one of the positives that Sea Doo brought the table in hull technology. They may increase drag, but are definitely well suited from a durability standpoint to how people treat their PWC’s.
I laugh ever time I hear this brought up. 20 years ago when I was really into racing alot of guys would take sandpaper to their bottom decks and gain a few mph depending on conditions. The air being trapped by the rough surface actually means less surface area.
Hmmmm, I’m not sure it’s just paint though, what happened to my buddies 21’ was when you go onto floating docks the hull didn’t have support behind certain sections and it weakened the actual hull to the point to where you could push it with your finger. I have pictures if you’re interested.
I don't have the floating docks. my wavrunner floats in the water and still has issues with the hull
Very good explanation. At least the paint doesn’t come off like old Superjet hoods, lol.
My buddy right now is dealing with the issue with his GP1800. He was getting the spider cracks n tiny bubbles in his footwell area. Yamaha is doing good by it n covering it under his warranty.
Glad to hear they're honoring the agreement.
thought hole in 2020 Yamaha FX SVHO hull from submerged stump I hit so took it in. There were 5 other 1-3 yr old Tamaha FX's with holes in hulls running mostly lengthwise from rollers on dock lifts per respected shop owner. A 2022 FX Limited had hole 3' long in roller line and insurance had totaled it. He had pics of couple showing the smaller sharper (not wide) rollers putting too much stress on hulls ... esp nanoexcell. Its a design issue ... these hulls not made for sharp rollers
Does this happen on non NanoXcel 2 hulls? I don’t think (although I’m not certain) that the EX doesn’t use the NanoXcel 2 hull. My EX doesn’t have a sticker on the back like the GP’s do which states it’s a NanoXcel 2 hull
No, the severe flexing is specific to the Nano2 hulls. Only the EXR is made using Nano2. All else are FMC.
Thanks for the response! Love all the content, keep up the great work!
What about NanoXCell (original)?
Just got a 2018 GP 1800 R with 27 hrs on it, super clean, and it’s delaminating pretty bad on the Hull, probably going to have to be a repaint.
Yikes! Get the flex additive and extra clear coat.
I have a 2015 FX SVHO 80 hours rude it hard in Havasu not one crack on the hull or deck
Awesome!
Would this be covered under warranty? Especially if it hasn't been beached.
That's entirely up to your dealer.
Is that a 350 build in the background?😎👍🏽yes, the orange engine
Does Gator Glide help protect the hulls?
Is this a “structural concern” or just appearance related?
Also does it apply to NanoXcel earlier versions that are not NanoXcel 2 such as VX series? I own a 2019 VX cruiser and a 2018 VX cruiser. I only see the paint missing where they slide on the trailer bunks. Figured there is no way to prevent that.
This is specifically for Nano2 models. No VX used it.
Hey i just picked up a 2019 VXR with 23 hours and it’s basically new with no imperfections. is this an issue i have to worry about ? Any recommendations on what i can do to maintain it well it’s still perfect ?
Would 3M wrapping on the deck and hull help to avoid paint spidering? Or is it a no-no to wrap a Jet Ski’s hull?
Love your channel!
The wrapping wouldn't prevent the paint from flexing or cracking, only damage from impacts and contact. And definitely do not consider wrapping the hull.
The “Elastomeric” additive’s have been used for decades on plastic painted body parts in automobiles, bumpers, body panels, Corvette’s (Fiberglass Body), Saturn’s (Plastic Body), etc.
This isn’t new, Yamaha should have been using that since they stopped using Gel Coat and started using Automotive paint!
I get why they switched to NanoXcell, but I don’t gst why they stopped using Gel Coat. Automotive paint is no doubt cheaper, but a horrible durability choice. Boats, especially the hull’s take alot of abuse, the strongest, most durable finish is FAR more important than the little weight savings they gain from not using a Gel Coat. Ski’s are soo fast now the vast majority of them are governed, so what is really gained by saving the little extra weight?
Then you'll really want to check out www.watercraftjournal.com on August 17th.
So Kevin, I'm thinking we should have a pole of which undercoating would be best for waverunners..... SuperSlick2000, Wetlander, or the Rhino lining.......I don't mind losing 2 Mph off my performance....😂😂
None of the above - just a semi gloss clear coat is all that’s needed.
Mmmmm, I have heard from some of our mutual friends, that the ski rides better, due to the (wetlander for example) breaks surface tension from the water and doesn't produce a vacuum of friction WOT.....
Surface tension is TRACTION. Why would you want to lose traction?
Hi Kevin, Have you heard about this happening to any of the 2022/23 Jetblasters? Or is the lighter ski holding up better? Looking to order one very soon to be used in the Murray in Australia once the floods drop down to normal levels.
The paint is still very fragile, so be careful when you beach it, run it up bunks, dock it, etc.
@@watercraftjournal thanks for that, do you see Yamaha going back to SMC across more of the range in 2024?
What would you recommend: Seadoo gti 170 se 2021 or Yamaha vx cruiser ho 2021 for salt and rough water use only (sea, ocean)
Many thanks
VX 100%
@@watercraftjournal
Absolutely, that's why most rental places use the Yamaha VX series for salt water riding in Florida. Just pull them out, flush them with salt away and fresh water and your good to go. :)
Do you think ceramic coating would help or have any effect?
Doubtful it's enough protection. See this: ua-cam.com/video/RZjaWITHBVc/v-deo.html
I scratched my gp1800 2020 hull the other day ..my ski was sinking cause the drain plug failed..so I had to beach it..i drug it up slowly to shore..when i got home i noticed lots of good size scratches down the middle and some chipping of paint...am i doomed now?...
Doomed? No. But you do need to perform some repairs. We strongly recommend once repairing the deep chips/gouges that you clear coat the hull.
@@watercraftjournal thx u...wish i could send some pix
email us at info@watercraftjournal.com
Should I spend the extra money for a Kawasaki and forgo the yamaha? I plan on not beaching it and being easy on the trailer. Probably will be riding lakes mostly. Any recommendations would be welcomed. I have a good deal on two yamaha cruiser HO. This makes me apprehensive about buying a waverunner with the nanocell
They are the 2022 VX cruiser HO
I have a 2013 fzs . .with stage3 Riva kit. Super fast for a month then my intake tunnel fractured. From front by intake grate up one side of tunnel to top corner of intake pump. Repaired with fiber reinforced filler. From bottom and inside . Failed within 30 mins
Well, the guys at CRT and JP Racing are still using FZR hulls, so the reinforcement might not have been performed correctly.
ok i just bout a 2021 yamaha exr this past saterday and i got it home and really did a good look over one more time. And i dont know how i missed it but the hull is cracking/paint is already cracking in the rear of the ski next to the baording step i hope yamaha will cover the repair sense i haven't even got it on the water yet.
Yeah, definitely take it back to the dealer immediately. No brand new product to be sold to the customer like that.
@@watercraftjournal yeah I plan on it I just won't have the next day available to do that until this coming Saturday
@@hotrodgt69 what was the outcome with your ski?
@@stephenwhite5444 Stephanie, I took it back and they fixed it but ultimately at the end of the season of 2022 I traded it in and got a 2022 GP 1800rho instead
My intake tunnel has cracked and is leaking water very bad. Anybody else had this happen??
It's a pretty common occurrence with heavily modified skis.
Sounds like a similar issue that the Freeform Factory skis had.
We didn't know that. Thanks for sharing!
@@watercraftjournal Idk about paint separation, but those hulls flexed like crazy. Even with a full frame inside.
Blah blah paint. Why about those who have cracking of the hull and don’t beach or ram them on our docks. Just slowly rising up on roller docks?
Why would yamaha choose to use automotive paint over gelcoat. What's the benefit?
Presumably cost or time taken to apply it. There's really no answer than we know of, only that it's pretty much bitten them back pretty hard.
2022 vx cruiser....140h.... not a single spider cracks in my paint...
What are you talking about?.
Explain!!
Your VX is not Nano 2, is it?
@@watercraftjournal I did hear that all 2019 and up are nanox 2 or am I wrong?
Purchasing a new left over 2021 fxsvho this Saturday. Debating taking it straight to my body shop to have 2coats of clear with that additive put on the hull before even getting it home. Do you think it a good idea or am I just being overly concerned?
Considering that you're already this concerned makes me think that you'll treat your Yamaha right from the beginning - so I'm not concerned. Most think these machines are made out of steel and teflon and simply isn't the case. Keep checking your hull and be a thoughtful/careful owner and you'll be fine.
@@watercraftjournal awsome thanks for the info
I bought a 2019 fx cruiser ho. At 40 hours it completely delaminated. It wasn't the paint that came off it was the actual material even riping off the sponsons. Never beached extremely well taken care of. Always cleaned it from top to bottom looking like it never seen water coming straight from the showroom floor. Yamaha knew it wasn't paint that came off it was a total delam. They replaced the ski with a 2020 fx svho cruiser and the red bottom paint is already coming off where it rest on the bunks. I'm extremely ocd when it comes to taking care of what I have and it is frustrating when I'm taking every caution to keep my ski looking new.. I miss the gel coat! Still love my ski just wish Yamaha would come up with something better
That paint is incredibly soft. The best solution we've encountered is having the hull of your NanoXcel 2 Yamaha coated in one or two layers of clear coat to seal it even further.
@@watercraftjournal that's actually something I've been thinking about doing.. just didn't know if it would be worth it or how it would affect warranty "if" something was to happen again. Absolutely love the ski and performance. Just always on edge after what happened
No doubt! No idea how it'd effect warranty, personally.
Sorry for my bad english, but I just precommand a jet blaster 2022, and i just see your video about this nanoxcel paint problems ... i'm afraid now :'( congratulation hahah
It's a bigger issue for the larger/heavier machines.
@@watercraftjournal I’m about to buy a jet blaster but this has me second guessing. I don it want to have to deal with paint and hull cracks. For a ski they want you to toss around is it that fragile??
Hi guys, I pick up my Fx Ho in 4 weeks 2021 model . Is this issue going to affect the hull on this model ? There will be times where I’ll have to gently pull it up onto the beach 🤷♂️ I’m super careful with my stuff.
Theoretically, yes. And NO, do NOT beach your ski. Buy an anchor and bow line and anchor in the water. The hull is PAINTED. You wouldn't drag your car's hood up the beach, would you?
@@watercraftjournal thanks , so is the nanoxcel hull the same as the xcel 2 hull ? In terms of materials used etc etc or is it slightly diff ,
It's slightly different, yes.
So do the 2021 fx ho have a gel coat on the hull ? Thanks 😊
I have a 2021 gp 1800 r svho never beached always on floating lift. took out out today and paints gone on the center of hull! Total bs especially since mine has never been beached once!
Waitaminute. What kind of floating dock?
@@watercraftjournal wave armor has the wheels goes right up wheels off to the side. Not close and way off from touching anything in the center
We're pretty sure it's not chipped off, but rubbed off. Look at the edges of the paint; is it a sharp ledge or is it beveled? If it's a sharp edge, take the ski to your dealer and demand a repair (that's paint that has peeled off). If it's beveled, the paint's been ground off.
@@watercraftjournal I’ll have to do that. I had a Kawasaki 310x that got stolen from the marina that I bought it at. They had it a month took it in because it lost power and would top out at 61. Then they let it get stolen, Wylands marina in Mishawaka indiana right before Memorial Day don’t go there! Then they wouldn’t even cover it! I had to turn it in to mine insurance. It’s been one of those years! So then I found the Yamaha nice other than that. Does way better on fuel but the Kawasaki ripped through chop!Thanks for your reply!
Two truths... paint is weak and the hull leaks. My GP was the first year (18 I think). Mine leaked from day 1. IMO should've been covered by warranty. Yamaha side stepped.
Where did it leak?
So it’s not working no more?
It's the nanoxcel v1 using the same auto paint system? Or is there a gel coat on those older models?
Zero gel coat on Yamaha’s.
I disagree 4 hour ski 2024 Vx ho and it is peeling like a banana never hit anything break in rode came back in paint is gone never beached
Yamaha should of owned up to it, mine cracked and they just kept telling me I hit something when I didn’t
Every instance has a story and needs to be evaluated individually.
What idiot is designing these things? All they had to do was add a flex agent like we do with painting bumper covers on cars. Someone needs to be fired
It's always easier to critique than create. We've heard there are some changes happening.
I enjoy your videos.
I agreed that Yamaha hulls paint cracks..
I just sold my 21 gp1800r svho cause i was disappointed with the paint quality of Yamaha..!! I love the performance but my personal opinion the 2021 Yamaha hulls are cheap made all the plastic pieces will come loose at times ...i never abuse mine already took care of it..i had to treat it like glass ...compare to seadoo i saw the rxpx hull and looks better made material and firm plastic.. next season I'm definitely buying me a rxpx.. knowing that Yamaha still better motor..but i was truly disappointed with Yamaha this year.. i have a 2010 VX cruiser that still holding up.. i think Yamaha needs to quit been so cheap lol..
My personal opinion...
Sorry to hear that; but the hull is NOT the problem, the paint is.
@@watercraftjournal i totally agree!! I don't think it will hold like the old Yamahas.. anyways i love your content..!! Very very good information!!!
Ride not rude
We hope not!
So how many years did it take for Yamaha to Id this problem and then do something about it? Lol!
It doesn't take any manufacturer very long to identify an issue. The question is whether it's cost effective to make immediate changes or wait longer.
Should have bought a seadoo
Every brand has their problems.
Kevin is correct saying all brands have there problems BUT the integrity of Yamahas hull is by far the biggest problem of all that cannot be successfully repaired long term after failure. I understand Kevin has to be non bias between makes of watercraft but the reason these discussions are public are for good old fashion honest truth.
Sea doo and Kawasaki’s have major engine problems Yamaha engines are the most reliable water crafts in the business
I’m on my second Kawasaki 310r and had a 250x both were and are junk
My Kawasaki 310r cuts out at 30 mph sputters changes the ECU NOPE changed the fuel pump NOPE spark plugs NOPE
my mechanic is stunned poor guy ski has been broken down more than a month very frustrated engine is good compression is perfect pump and prop perfect
@@martinreagan5083 Yamaha engines are not great either just a few years ago there timing chains were snapping causing major engine damage and a known fault that Yamaha recognised and eventually fixed also the Yamaha Supercharger fails regularly and the Yamaha injector wiring breaks at the plug end causing misfires and break downs.
@@martinreagan5083 that's unfortunate about the Kawi. I have a '19 310x and couldn't be happier with it.
Yamaha hulls are far Too Thin no question about it. Thick Grp seadoo and kawasaki hulls NEVER FAIL.
Seen failures at least half a dozen times of yamaha hull failures straight out of the crate thus has been happening for many years. Nano eggshell 2 is not the answer for a reliable hull.
It's not a matter of the hulls being weak, it's a matter of the painting process and materials.
@@watercraftjournal No other manufacturer of watercraft have ever had these delicate hulls that fail in such high numbers so no matter how you dress it up theses hulls are not fit for purpose for everyday hard riding in rough waters they will fracture delaminate and sink i have been witness to this many many times and Yamaha knows about this flaw and has not addressed it successfully.
The failure rate isn't what the internet would have you believe. (Same goes for Sea-Doo carbon ring failure.)
@@watercraftjournal Not in my 30 years of riding i totally disagree i have had over 50 machines in that time and the Yamahas have always turned out fragile in the hull area and also the intake shoe driveshaft area and intake grate area as well not to mention the hull below fuel tank where they constantly crack and delaminate in rough water riding. Sure on a lake or calm water probably not a problem but why Yamaha calls it a Wave Runner is misleading.
I would much rather replace a failed sea- doo carbon ring which by the way I never had a failure, than a hull that isn't even available from yamaha other than buying a new machine.
This sounds like it came directly from a Yamaha press release ....
Yeah, it's amazing what happens when somebody who is well informed on a technical matter is able to share information in a thorough manner.
You have no idea what you are talking about????
More than most.
Says somebody that hasn't figured out basic punctuation.