The problem with Janeway was that,the writers didn't know how to write her properly, so her character came off very unevenly (like when she made an alliance with the Borg in one moment, then in the next she is ripping Braxton a new one for going the extra mile to get the equinox and his crew home. (He killed a scores of the creatures to power his enhanced warp drive, but Janeway helping the Borg to defeat Species 8472 meant that the Collective was then free to continue assimilating countless species (in the millions/Billions). I mean, she could have found a way to make peace with them and let them destroy the Borg and I say that because in the next season, she practically makes peace with them, and Chakotay gets freaky with one of them XD)
@@ApolloXL5 I had issues with Janeway too. One of the biggest wasn't really Janeway herself. It was that they too often felt the need to make the characters around her, and Torres, look stupid in order to make them look superior. Of course NuTrek took that same strategy to a whole new level. It wasn't just Janeway they didn't know how to write. They had a potentially great new antagonist in species 8472 and then they went and neutered them. Such a waste.
And Janeway was one of the weaker, less well written captains. But at least she usually acted like someone with authority and experience in a command position. It's absolutely unfathomable how an illogical crybaby like Burnham could have ever made it through Starfleet command qualification. Unless they had an affirmative action program there too.
yeah and that first episode and that whole I'm the one who gave spock his groove thing just made the whole thing suck more like she is what she is, the Female Westley Crusher, as literally the first thing she does after we're told she's been her first officer on the Shinzon for like 7 years, the same time as riker on the enterprise D is mutiny when she doesnt get her way when all she had do was literally Go, YO FOSTER DAD, Tell her what you just told me about the Vulcan Hello, on this here Space Phone that you just called me on less than 5 minutes ago! but nope, her reaction to being told that by Foster Dad, who is supposed to be Sarrek from the original series is to just go on the bridge and loudly proclaim without explaination, we need to attack first and then knock out her captain after she calls her in to go WTF and play it off like she's ill and she's in charge now I literally did the jackie chan meme face at that, like why did you........ wHAT?! like even Westley Crusher wasnt this stupid, and then they split it off into a cliffhanger, with the fleet warping in behind her anyways, just as soon as she, the captain who's woke up and thrown her in the brig, says we come in peace then you see all it resulted in was everything getting turned into pieces anyways like say all you will about voyager and how bad its writing was, and how badly it ruined the borg, but atleast the crew wasnt written to be this dumb''
I find the lack of flying rocks in the Discovery Bridge very disturbing… I clearly expected their season finale to be Agent Daniel’s in the holodeck saying “computer end program” as he snaps his fingers while staring directly into the camera to say “This concludes our program el captain.” Then we can realistically say this whole time Agent Daniel’s was actually Q’s son all along!
The funny thing is that Voyager episode made no sense. The event horizon of a black hole is not a physical barrier. It's a boundary where radiation cannot escape from its gravity. You can't create a rupture because there is nothing to rupture.
technically they never said it's a black hole , so it might have been some other space phenomenon all together and Neelix could just be an idiot who mistook it for a black hole in his explanation . but Discovery also makes no sense because if they have shields that prevent the effects of relativity and have the ability to move faster than light then there shouldn't really be any problem going in and out of a black hole
SNW Enterprise danced around a blackhole too. Discovery engineers seemed to have broken out the crayons and decorated the engineering books instead of studying them🖍
I have an idea! Hear me out. We have this alien kid that gets grounded from his X-box, and it destroys almost every single starship in the galaxy! OMG! We will all get an emmy for this, for sure!
I don't know if you already mentioned this in another video, but another thing that really annoyed me about Discovery's finale is where Burnham said that Tilly was the longest tenured instructor at the Academy. And I'm just like, "In an organization that's been around for nearly 1,000 years at this point, with aliens from a great number of planets, many of which have lifespans several times that of a human, not a single other person taught there longer than HER?!?" That was nothing but a last-minute attempt to make their characters significant. Kinda hope Memory Alpha just looks the other way on that piece of "canon"...DX.
Yeah Tilly is always the best right after Michael. She can run Marathons without drinking, and teach longer than some Vulcans being able to live 200+ years. The only explanation I have is that no one wanted to teach that long WITH Tilly around, so they all quit after a short while 😂🤣 I got really annoyed by the Discovery bridge flamethrowers. In every action scene there are two wall parts that shoot out flames right behind the Captain's char. No one is ever standing there, no one ever gets hurt or burned. But if they know the flames are always coming out there, wouldn't it be easy to have an engineer look into that and have that fixed. I mean, the crew seems to know, with no one standing there, why is no one fixing these flame spitting walls? The old bridges had some nice panel explosions now and then leaving some of them burning and the crew burnt or dead. But in Discovery there's mostly sparks in the consoles but giant fire bursts from those panels. It's so ridiculous.
The book Star Trek: Federation comes to mind. Any ship with a strong enough structural integrity field and a functioning warpdrive can escape from within the event horizon. Whether or not they return to their own time is another matter.
Hold on I just thought of something. So the previous Starfleet or Vulcans or whoever they were - created this whole patchwork of clues that led people to the knowledge and the technology. So why doesn't Burnham do that again? She chases this technology destroys all the clues and then just puts it into a black hole? Remember the clues were supposed to test whether the world was ready for this technology. Now there are no more clues! Is she a villain?
Literally pulling up the ladder behind you as you set fire to the barn loft you're standing in.... This is a stupid af plot that hurts my brain. Like, what was the lesson learned here...? What was achieved other than "We weren't worthy now, so no one will ever be."
It's what I call "Hiring multiple writers for each episode for cheap instead of having a coherent singlular writers or writers who might demand a decent wage, not have them communicate, then get the last person to try and tie it all together." plot stability.
She's the one who knows better than that highly advanced ancient civilization. She thinks can singlehandedly make such an important decision for everyone in the galaxy. Sounds pretty much villain to me.
The fact that they are treating the event horizon as an "insurmountable" barrier is questionable in general. It is insurmountable for light, because it's the point where the gravity of the Black Hole is stronger than the speed of light, meaning that light can't escape. However, in Star Trek, speeds beyond lightsaber are more than possible. With 32nd century tech - both temporal and engine-wise it should be very possible to cross that event-horizon and return safely.
Lets not forget that they still have time machines in the future... I'm not buying for a minute that they are really banned. All they'd need to do is travel to the past to a point before they put the portal thing into the black hole and sneak inside.
Right, as long as you can get to warp 1.01 you're fine. The only question is what sensors will still yield useful information that far down a black hole's gravity well. Meaning you can get in an out, but unless there's some kind of subspace locator beacon on that thing, you might've have a hard time finding it. Still, somewhere out there I'm sure some little Ferengi set up a warp dredging company, firing warp probes into black holes to blindly fish up pockets of local space to see what superweapons ancient civilizations dropped in there. He only has to strike it rich once.
In the Orville they hid inside of a black hole in one episode. Which makes perfect sense when you consider that inside there, no signals could escape, but since they have a FTL ship, they could escape whenever they wanted to. Additionally, objects outside of the event horizon were moving quickly, comparatively, because of time dilation. So: A comedy "Star Trek"-like series got the science much more correct than Star Trek, itself.
It's even stupier when you think that in nutrek thet have magical mushroom engines that allow you to teleport anywhere, so just teleport beyond the event horizon and then out of it.
That explanation might finally solve the Fermi Paradox. I mean, I’m speaking as a layman. But I’ve always assumed there had to be some sort of unseen barrier that stymied interstellar travel for every Tom, Dick, and Harry with the technological capabilities.
@@Kink_Shaman There is an unseen barrier - it's called space! Lots and lots and lots of space! FTL is far from a guarantee. Check out 'The 3 Body Problem' - even our closest neighbors, would likely spend centuries traveling here.
I love Discovery. It’s rooted in TNG episodes like “fan favourite the inner light” which made me feel sad about the sun. Now Discovery makes me feel sad about how hard Michael has it. She’s such a good character I wish she would cry more.
1:37 I expect Captain Dodge from "Down Periscope" to say something about "pin point drills in the simulator" just before they pilot the sub between the props of a tanker :D
Ugh, Sounds like this is the exact same plot as the Sword of Kahless episode. When they found something so powerful "we're not ready" and they just shot it into space. Exact same.
Yeah, I didn't remember those previous cases, but throwing it into the black hole didn't seem like a very final thing in Star Trek. Although, if we still believe that real physics applies here, it would be ripped apart by the tidal force (at some point). But then, why not just destroy it?
Difficult, but not impossible. Thus.... safeguarding it to protect some device is not smart. (I only watched 1 season of discovery so I have no clue what that special device is or does).
The event horizon of a black hole is NOT an energy field. The gravitational pull of any mass varies depending on distance, the event horizon is simply the distance at which the gravitational pull is strong enough that the escape velocity exceeds the speed of light. You can't "crack it open", not with the "warp particles" that the idiot Voyager writers made up for this particular episode and not with anything else either. There's nothing to crack.
Was Voyager trapped inside a black hole? How exactly did it survive getting even close to the event horizon? Also, even assuming it could have survived that *and* somehow got out again in one piece, the time dilation means they would emerge millions if not billions of years in the future.
What if the Progenitor machine is what created the machine planet that found the Voyager probe? Got shot out of the Black Hole’s wormhole in the past on the other side of the galaxy.
Inertia dampners can't stop a ship getting rocked by a torpedo but somehow they'll stop everyone from turning into liquid when they go from 230,153,000,000 mph (warp 7 cruising speed) to 0mph in a split second? I'm sorry but what? Even a slight disruption of the bubble will cause them to drop out of warp and into relativistic speeds let alone the entire bubble going down.
I don't get why the inertial dampers would even be relevant. Warp speed doesn't give an object velocity; the space within the warp bubble is moving- not the matter within.
@@moofree It appears that in Discovery the warp bubble isn't bent space doing an end run around relativity, but an FU relativity field that protects the ship from relativity like it was some kind of radiation. Red Dwarf's time proof suspension cell that somehow keeps time from passing through resulting in suspended animation makes more sense!
This whole ending sucked balls, I was pissed and so annoyed it was so damn pathetic and insulting to not only us the viewers but also to the characters the actors had worked so hard to create
No matter how goofy Voyager could get in its run, at least at its heart it was still Star Trek, not this itchy itchy STD and STD-adjacent products we have been getting since 2009.
But just dropping it there won't do the trick. It is most likely it will just orbit the black hole. Okay, let's say they were smart enough to capculate its trajectory and dropped it off at the right position and speed to go into the hole. Well time slows down as you get closer to the black hole. So it will actually never reach the event horizon.
@@theevilcottonball I believe time would only slow from the probe's (or whatever it was) point of view. From ours, safely away from the black hole, it would flow as normal. But I guess the better question is, why would they put it just inside the event horizon (suggesting an orbit) instead of putting it on a course to fall in entirely?
Really. I thought that from our frame of reference (far away from the hole) we would observe time passing slower for the object close to the black hole. From the perspective of the thing close to the black hole, it would see time move faster for the ship far away from the hole.
Voyager was peak, sheek treck built of the sucsess of tng. It was always going to be good. Its a shame so many fans either didn't give it a chance or are just unsualy harsh when analysing it. They say Janeway was reckless, and constantly broke the prime directive. Yet theres a scene in tng where picard both confesses to breaking yhe prime directive on many actions and "isn't one to play it safe" all in 5 minuets. and yet that makes him a boss. We all know why fans can't give Janeway her dues.
I always took Voyager as, if you took TOS and separated it into two beings, you would get TNG and VOY. TNG leaned more into the cerebral and introspective, while VOY leaned more into the adventure and exploration.
Hey, remember when the Enterprise could travel across the entire galaxy in a matter of days? You should do a video about how Voyager forgot about that. Oh, but wait, that would mean ridiculing a show you enjoy and hold up as the next best thing to Perfection.
Voyager was modified by beings far superior to humans in that century (TMP) and returned to Earth as V'Ger.. V'ger only made it through a black hole with assistance and advanced technology that's unknown to humans and other Federation entities, especially in the original Discovery (pre VOY) timeline i don't see how this example advances your point?
@@MajorGrin Thank you. I watched pretty much all of VOY as it aired (not literally, my parents would tape it because it aired too late at night). To varying degrees, I've re-wached, as an adult, ST episodes from the various series, but there's too much trash in VOY for me to go episode by episode. Do you remember "take the cheese to sick-bay"?
Voyager always made me cringe with some of its egregious science mistakes and technobabble (this episode being a prime example), but at least the characters were likeable and acted like Starfleet officers.
This video proves my point. That was VOYAGERS rediculous stupidity. Worst Trek series ever. There are videos pointing out how insanely dumb Voyagers science is. This is definitely not a Discovery problem!
This was one of the worst cases of scientific mumbo jumbo ever in star strek. In voyager. The event horizon isn't an actual field... its the point in space that the pul from the black hole equals the speed of light, so even light can't exit. There is no hole. You can't wedge open gravity. You do however have a drive that bends spece better than a blackhole to move faster than light... so use it.
technically they never said it's a black hole , so it might have been some other space phenomenon all together and Neelix could just be an idiot who mistook it for a black hole in his explanation . but Discovery also makes no sense because if they have shields that prevent the effects of relativity and have the ability to move faster than light then there shouldn't really be any problem going in and out of a black hole
Pretty sure you did a joke about discovery when 2 people talk about the same thing and say the same timg at the same time just like they did in voyager did in this clip
Miss Voyager so much, I’m due a rewatch soon - glad Discovery is over, it will never be rewatched, it will be forgotten and therefore all its violations to canon will be forgotten!
Ironically, in-universe consistency aside, Voyager was full of crap in that episode. Incredibly, the Discovery episode is waaaaaaaaay more scientifically accurate... this time.
@@DarthSpock1 science evolves and changes over time, as our understanding of the universe is ever changing. you weeping for the scientific community is showing your own ignorance of the ever changing. I doubt you are well versed in the scientific breakthroughs of the 1990's when the advisors were present in the writing room. To judge the past on the ideas of the future is stupidity in its purest form.
@@Shiirow .... That statement is akin to saying flat earthers deserve more respect for their scientific contributions. While the sentiment is fine, you seem to be the one lacking understanding of what the "event horizon" is, and basically fall under your own criticism. Seriously, it isn't a complicated principle, a quick wiki search could fill you in on how awful that dialog was. They may as well have said "we found a crack in that hole over there." As a fan, I was usually among those doing mental gymnastics to make the goofy "science" work. And with some word play and arbitrary *assumptions* as to what they may have ACTUALLY meant with that terrible analogy, you can make it work and not have the immersion totally ruined, but the simple fact is that was a terrible bit of dialog misusing a well established scientific term.
Star Trek Discovery managed to top itself by ending its run with the mother of all stupid decisions. The people who made the worst Star Trek ever managed to end it in such a failure its not even worth laughing at. They spend an entire season chasing this technology that created life as we know it and once they find it they throw it away.
You are defending VOYAGER!? I have one word for you. Tsunkaste. You remember? The episode that was dictated by UPN because they demanded a cross-promotion with WRESTLING on their failed garbage network. The same show that did fake "will they or wont they" ads/promos about Seven of Nine" I dont care what you say but if you think Voyager is better than Discovery, Picard or Strange New Worlds then you sir have lost all respect and credibility. You literally cannot be serious here. Using Voyager to bash Discovery because bashing Nu Trek has become your gimmick? Are you even a Star Trek fan? Doesn't seem like it! Voyager was a UPN cash grab, and it was garbage TV. Discovery for all its faults is light years better than that trash. edit: Not only does Star Trek and wrestling not belong together, Wrestling is a joke and literally has NO fans
What happened to all the worlds connected to that Portal after it was pushed into the Black hole: ua-cam.com/video/FYfhgWN038E/v-deo.html
You need to remember that Alexander Hilary Kurtzman knows nothing about Star Trek lore.
"We are the Borg. We thank the one known as Michael Burnham for her gift. We shall... assimilate her last."
the Borg: "the power of maaaaaany"
@@MajorGrin😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
@@MajorGrinomg, almost died from laughing so hard that I got stomach cramps! BTW can't wait if you do Acolyte review!
@@MajorGrin
....
A borg hive with only queens? @@MajorGrin
At the time voyager aired I didn't care for Janeway much. She is such a better character than Burnham. There is no comparison between the two.
The problem with Janeway was that,the writers didn't know how to write her properly, so her character came off very unevenly (like when she made an alliance with the Borg in one moment, then in the next she is ripping Braxton a new one for going the extra mile to get the equinox and his crew home. (He killed a scores of the creatures to power his enhanced warp drive, but Janeway helping the Borg to defeat Species 8472 meant that the Collective was then free to continue assimilating countless species (in the millions/Billions). I mean, she could have found a way to make peace with them and let them destroy the Borg and I say that because in the next season, she practically makes peace with them, and Chakotay gets freaky with one of them XD)
@@ApolloXL5 That episode with Chakotay and the species 8472 girlfriend was so bad.
@@ApolloXL5 I had issues with Janeway too. One of the biggest wasn't really Janeway herself. It was that they too often felt the need to make the characters around her, and Torres, look stupid in order to make them look superior. Of course NuTrek took that same strategy to a whole new level.
It wasn't just Janeway they didn't know how to write. They had a potentially great new antagonist in species 8472 and then they went and neutered them. Such a waste.
And Janeway was one of the weaker, less well written captains. But at least she usually acted like someone with authority and experience in a command position. It's absolutely unfathomable how an illogical crybaby like Burnham could have ever made it through Starfleet command qualification. Unless they had an affirmative action program there too.
yeah and that first episode and that whole I'm the one who gave spock his groove thing just made the whole thing suck more
like she is what she is, the Female Westley Crusher, as literally the first thing she does after we're told she's been her first officer on the Shinzon for like 7 years, the same time as riker on the enterprise D
is mutiny when she doesnt get her way
when all she had do was literally Go, YO FOSTER DAD, Tell her what you just told me about the Vulcan Hello, on this here Space Phone that you just called me on less than 5 minutes ago!
but nope, her reaction to being told that by Foster Dad, who is supposed to be Sarrek from the original series
is to just go on the bridge and loudly proclaim without explaination, we need to attack first
and then knock out her captain after she calls her in to go WTF and play it off like she's ill and she's in charge now
I literally did the jackie chan meme face at that, like why did you........ wHAT?!
like even Westley Crusher wasnt this stupid, and then they split it off into a cliffhanger, with the fleet warping in behind her anyways, just as soon as she, the captain who's woke up and thrown her in the brig, says we come in peace
then you see all it resulted in was everything getting turned into pieces anyways
like say all you will about voyager and how bad its writing was, and how badly it ruined the borg, but atleast the crew wasnt written to be this dumb''
"Sometimes you just have to punch your way through." Great scene.
1:33 Today that would have been said by a man with a snarky comment by a female. But if Janeways rapes the universe its ok :)
I find the lack of flying rocks in the Discovery Bridge very disturbing… I clearly expected their season finale to be Agent Daniel’s in the holodeck saying “computer end program” as he snaps his fingers while staring directly into the camera to say “This concludes our program el captain.” Then we can realistically say this whole time Agent Daniel’s was actually Q’s son all along!
No. He's showing Archer a possible future.
You contradicted yourself. Is he on the holodeck or a Q?
oh i like that...
When she isn't already crying, Burnham sounds like she will burst into tears just by talking. O.o
The funny thing is that Voyager episode made no sense. The event horizon of a black hole is not a physical barrier. It's a boundary where radiation cannot escape from its gravity. You can't create a rupture because there is nothing to rupture.
technically they never said it's a black hole , so it might have been some other space phenomenon all together and Neelix could just be an idiot who mistook it for a black hole in his explanation . but Discovery also makes no sense because if they have shields that prevent the effects of relativity and have the ability to move faster than light then there shouldn't really be any problem going in and out of a black hole
They called it a quantum singularity in the episode.
There, fixed.
By adding the word quantum to it like Flex Tape on a leaky water tank.
SNW Enterprise danced around a blackhole too. Discovery engineers seemed to have broken out the crayons and decorated the engineering books instead of studying them🖍
Huh. Sarek's reaction applies equally well to the STD plot point, _and_ the VOY clip refuting it.
Time to rewatch Voyager.
It’s 100x better than you remember.. i just did and was blown away by how good it was.
The resolution is low, but the stories are far better.
It's always time to rewatch TOS, TNG, VOY and DS9.
Nearly as bad as the STD S03 ending with the crying kid being responsible for "the burn".
God, that was horrible,Discovery writers are just as bad as Star Wars writers.
@@kal0247It's like competition who will come up with even worse stuff! Acolyte muhahahahahhah!
Someone has been found responsible for the BURNham
I have an idea! Hear me out. We have this alien kid that gets grounded from his X-box, and it destroys almost every single starship in the galaxy!
OMG! We will all get an emmy for this, for sure!
It really fits with this generation of writers. Definitely something they would relate to and write in. Probably high fiving each other as they do it.
It's really funny that no matter how you cut it, the STD ending is stupid.
I don't know if you already mentioned this in another video, but another thing that really annoyed me about Discovery's finale is where Burnham said that Tilly was the longest tenured instructor at the Academy. And I'm just like, "In an organization that's been around for nearly 1,000 years at this point, with aliens from a great number of planets, many of which have lifespans several times that of a human, not a single other person taught there longer than HER?!?" That was nothing but a last-minute attempt to make their characters significant. Kinda hope Memory Alpha just looks the other way on that piece of "canon"...DX.
Great point. They always have to insert these little claims to make their characters the bestest evaaar even if it makes no sense
Yeah Tilly is always the best right after Michael. She can run Marathons without drinking, and teach longer than some Vulcans being able to live 200+ years. The only explanation I have is that no one wanted to teach that long WITH Tilly around, so they all quit after a short while 😂🤣
I got really annoyed by the Discovery bridge flamethrowers. In every action scene there are two wall parts that shoot out flames right behind the Captain's char. No one is ever standing there, no one ever gets hurt or burned.
But if they know the flames are always coming out there, wouldn't it be easy to have an engineer look into that and have that fixed. I mean, the crew seems to know, with no one standing there, why is no one fixing these flame spitting walls?
The old bridges had some nice panel explosions now and then leaving some of them burning and the crew burnt or dead. But in Discovery there's mostly sparks in the consoles but giant fire bursts from those panels. It's so ridiculous.
@@knightnevermore There must have been some “bestest evaranium” coating the relays behind the panels. I hear it’s extremely flammable 😂🤣🤣.
The book Star Trek: Federation comes to mind. Any ship with a strong enough structural integrity field and a functioning warpdrive can escape from within the event horizon. Whether or not they return to their own time is another matter.
Hold on I just thought of something. So the previous Starfleet or Vulcans or whoever they were - created this whole patchwork of clues that led people to the knowledge and the technology. So why doesn't Burnham do that again? She chases this technology destroys all the clues and then just puts it into a black hole? Remember the clues were supposed to test whether the world was ready for this technology. Now there are no more clues!
Is she a villain?
Literally pulling up the ladder behind you as you set fire to the barn loft you're standing in....
This is a stupid af plot that hurts my brain. Like, what was the lesson learned here...? What was achieved other than "We weren't worthy now, so no one will ever be."
It's what I call "Hiring multiple writers for each episode for cheap instead of having a coherent singlular writers or writers who might demand a decent wage, not have them communicate, then get the last person to try and tie it all together." plot stability.
Of course she's a villain, she's in with the rest of the time travel cliche pulling up all the ladders for everyone else.
@@hardy83 Or just hiring sober writers.
She's the one who knows better than that highly advanced ancient civilization. She thinks can singlehandedly make such an important decision for everyone in the galaxy. Sounds pretty much villain to me.
logic is nowhere to be found
The fact that they are treating the event horizon as an "insurmountable" barrier is questionable in general. It is insurmountable for light, because it's the point where the gravity of the Black Hole is stronger than the speed of light, meaning that light can't escape. However, in Star Trek, speeds beyond lightsaber are more than possible. With 32nd century tech - both temporal and engine-wise it should be very possible to cross that event-horizon and return safely.
There's a novel - Federation - in which they do that. IMO, it's a good read, although it now conflicts with First Contact.
@@tomkerruish2982first Contact conflicted with star trek
Lets not forget that they still have time machines in the future... I'm not buying for a minute that they are really banned. All they'd need to do is travel to the past to a point before they put the portal thing into the black hole and sneak inside.
Right, as long as you can get to warp 1.01 you're fine. The only question is what sensors will still yield useful information that far down a black hole's gravity well. Meaning you can get in an out, but unless there's some kind of subspace locator beacon on that thing, you might've have a hard time finding it.
Still, somewhere out there I'm sure some little Ferengi set up a warp dredging company, firing warp probes into black holes to blindly fish up pockets of local space to see what superweapons ancient civilizations dropped in there. He only has to strike it rich once.
Well, not exactly... as I understand it, time and space are so warped and twisted that you cannot escape, even if you exceeded the speed of light.
In the Orville they hid inside of a black hole in one episode. Which makes perfect sense when you consider that inside there, no signals could escape, but since they have a FTL ship, they could escape whenever they wanted to. Additionally, objects outside of the event horizon were moving quickly, comparatively, because of time dilation.
So: A comedy "Star Trek"-like series got the science much more correct than Star Trek, itself.
It's even stupier when you think that in nutrek thet have magical mushroom engines that allow you to teleport anywhere, so just teleport beyond the event horizon and then out of it.
You know that you've screwed up when you make a Vulcan mad.
I don't understand how you can keep watching nu-Trek without dying. Have you become immune to its cringe?
How does a gold miner deal with the dark? The shiny bits they see down below!
Wow Voyager was so much better
The fact that we don't have any idea why that portal was dangerous is evidence of a complete failure in storytelling
see, the borg learned that the POWER OF TWO is not enough
That is why they rely on the POWER OF MANYYY.
I wish I could forget Star Trek Discovery.
I'm sorry yo but STD is terminal
Fun fact: the science now says we are surrounded by micro black holes
That explanation might finally solve the Fermi Paradox. I mean, I’m speaking as a layman. But I’ve always assumed there had to be some sort of unseen barrier that stymied interstellar travel for every Tom, Dick, and Harry with the technological capabilities.
@@Kink_Shaman There is an unseen barrier - it's called space! Lots and lots and lots of space!
FTL is far from a guarantee.
Check out 'The 3 Body Problem' - even our closest neighbors, would likely spend centuries traveling here.
Funner fact its all retarded unproveable guess work quantum quackery nonsense, at least in good sci fi shows of old its acknowledged as sci fi though.
I love Discovery. It’s rooted in TNG episodes like “fan favourite the inner light” which made me feel sad about the sun. Now Discovery makes me feel sad about how hard Michael has it. She’s such a good character I wish she would cry more.
1:37 I expect Captain Dodge from "Down Periscope" to say something about "pin point drills in the simulator" just before they pilot the sub between the props of a tanker :D
Totally forgot about this 😂 anyone with warp capabilities and a tractor beam could come and retrieve the progenitors device with a little knowledge
Ugh, Sounds like this is the exact same plot as the Sword of Kahless episode. When they found something so powerful "we're not ready" and they just shot it into space. Exact same.
Who else hates that smug voice that sounds like she is superior and better than us.
Yeah, I didn't remember those previous cases, but throwing it into the black hole didn't seem like a very final thing in Star Trek. Although, if we still believe that real physics applies here, it would be ripped apart by the tidal force (at some point). But then, why not just destroy it?
Other than the Doctor and Seven and some moments, I didn't think much of the Voyager series, but it towers over this STD
You showed that it is at the least very difficult to cross the event horizon twice, as it took a whole episode to do it.
Difficult, but not impossible. Thus.... safeguarding it to protect some device is not smart. (I only watched 1 season of discovery so I have no clue what that special device is or does).
The event horizon of a black hole is NOT an energy field. The gravitational pull of any mass varies depending on distance, the event horizon is simply the distance at which the gravitational pull is strong enough that the escape velocity exceeds the speed of light. You can't "crack it open", not with the "warp particles" that the idiot Voyager writers made up for this particular episode and not with anything else either. There's nothing to crack.
Was Voyager trapped inside a black hole? How exactly did it survive getting even close to the event horizon?
Also, even assuming it could have survived that *and* somehow got out again in one piece, the time dilation means they would emerge millions if not billions of years in the future.
Counterpoint: Discovery was 2256. Voyager happened in 2371. A lot happens in 115 years.
Later seasons of Discovery take place in the 32nd century.
What if the Progenitor machine is what created the machine planet that found the Voyager probe? Got shot out of the Black Hole’s wormhole in the past on the other side of the galaxy.
Oh, God...
Burnham's _pontificating._
That is enouffffff. silly insigficant hhhwhite man lol.
2:00 i always found it interested they changed the 3 pot lights at some point at tuvoks and kims stations
To be fair to DISCO, you can`t forget something that you do not know anything about!!! 🤣🤣
To be fair, Voyager’s depiction of a black hole was, to put in the most polite way, stupid. The writer clearly had no idea what a black hole is
Well to be fair, they forgot a lot of things. Like warp cores having failsaves and being ejectable.
were warp cores ejectable pre Kirk .. ?
Discovery also forgot that warp travel was possible without dilithium. But thats what happens when crap writers get employed by crap producers.
I'm grateful I've forgotten so much Voyager
...so that you can watch it again?? 😊
I love Voyager, haha. second best series behind DS9
@@NearlyH3adlessNick
Neelix? Kes?
Garrat Wang: "The title of the script (Disease) was originally Alien Love Story"
I got more.
The resolution sucks, but the stories are far superior.
I agree. DS9 > Voyager > TNG > OS / Enterprise. Rest is unwatchable.@@NearlyH3adlessNick
Inertia dampners can't stop a ship getting rocked by a torpedo but somehow they'll stop everyone from turning into liquid when they go from 230,153,000,000 mph (warp 7 cruising speed) to 0mph in a split second? I'm sorry but what? Even a slight disruption of the bubble will cause them to drop out of warp and into relativistic speeds let alone the entire bubble going down.
I don't get why the inertial dampers would even be relevant. Warp speed doesn't give an object velocity; the space within the warp bubble is moving- not the matter within.
@@moofree It appears that in Discovery the warp bubble isn't bent space doing an end run around relativity, but an FU relativity field that protects the ship from relativity like it was some kind of radiation.
Red Dwarf's time proof suspension cell that somehow keeps time from passing through resulting in suspended animation makes more sense!
Warp Particles!
This whole ending sucked balls, I was pissed and so annoyed it was so damn pathetic and insulting to not only us the viewers but also to the characters the actors had worked so hard to create
No matter how goofy Voyager could get in its run, at least at its heart it was still Star Trek, not this itchy itchy STD and STD-adjacent products we have been getting since 2009.
In Discovery's defense, it's more realistic that something beyond the event horizon would be unrecoverable.
Not when you can go faster than light and are shielded from the effects of relativity
@@NitpickingNerd assuming the black hole's gravity well does not unavoidably interefere with/collapse the warp bubble
But just dropping it there won't do the trick. It is most likely it will just orbit the black hole. Okay, let's say they were smart enough to capculate its trajectory and dropped it off at the right position and speed to go into the hole. Well time slows down as you get closer to the black hole. So it will actually never reach the event horizon.
@@theevilcottonball I believe time would only slow from the probe's (or whatever it was) point of view. From ours, safely away from the black hole, it would flow as normal.
But I guess the better question is, why would they put it just inside the event horizon (suggesting an orbit) instead of putting it on a course to fall in entirely?
Really. I thought that from our frame of reference (far away from the hole) we would observe time passing slower for the object close to the black hole.
From the perspective of the thing close to the black hole, it would see time move faster for the ship far away from the hole.
STD couldn't be a better acronym for this show.
Voyager was peak, sheek treck built of the sucsess of tng. It was always going to be good. Its a shame so many fans either didn't give it a chance or are just unsualy harsh when analysing it.
They say Janeway was reckless, and constantly broke the prime directive.
Yet theres a scene in tng where picard both confesses to breaking yhe prime directive on many actions and "isn't one to play it safe" all in 5 minuets. and yet that makes him a boss.
We all know why fans can't give Janeway her dues.
I always took Voyager as, if you took TOS and separated it into two beings, you would get TNG and VOY. TNG leaned more into the cerebral and introspective, while VOY leaned more into the adventure and exploration.
RIP Star Trek
This wasn't a black hole, it's was similar but turned out to be different
Hey, remember when the Enterprise could travel across the entire galaxy in a matter of days? You should do a video about how Voyager forgot about that. Oh, but wait, that would mean ridiculing a show you enjoy and hold up as the next best thing to Perfection.
It was shown in one of the very first compilations of star trek mistakes on this channel
How much do you get paid?
Voyager was modified by beings far superior to humans in that century (TMP) and returned to Earth as V'Ger.. V'ger only made it through a black hole with assistance and advanced technology that's unknown to humans and other Federation entities, especially in the original Discovery (pre VOY) timeline
i don't see how this example advances your point?
Which episode of VOY was that?
"Parallax"
@@MajorGrin Thank you. I watched pretty much all of VOY as it aired (not literally, my parents would tape it because it aired too late at night). To varying degrees, I've re-wached, as an adult, ST episodes from the various series, but there's too much trash in VOY for me to go episode by episode. Do you remember "take the cheese to sick-bay"?
This is all a LIE! I do not see an Event Horizon, a Sam Niel nor a Larry Fishburne! LIARS!
Man, let poor Sarek rest.
Voyager always made me cringe with some of its egregious science mistakes and technobabble (this episode being a prime example), but at least the characters were likeable and acted like Starfleet officers.
NOT all singularities are black holes.
They said the same thing at the same time!
Michael Burnham was too busy saving the Galaxy all the time, so she - just like the writers of this show - missed the Voyager history classes.
you can not forget that which was never learned.
Wouldn't that portal to every point in the Galaxy cause the Black Hole to spread across said Galaxy to destory everything
Explains why it is the last season, she destroyed the entire galaxy 😂
...is eNUFF
Yeah see the 'two people talking at the same time' thing isn't unique or at all new to Disco. Trek has been doing it for ages.
Give me a break! Plot holes was a thing in the franchise for a while now.
I miss when Star Trek was actually good.
Blame that writer Michelle lady forgot really watching Star Trek and the same with the actors. Polluted the timeline with 💩
But Voyager is 100 years in the future so this doesn't break continuity really.
except you forget that STD traveled into the distant future far past Voyager at one point. so even this defense is null and void.
In this case, STD is the one making scientific sense. Anythubg that goes across the event horizon is never coming back.
VOY got it wrong.
This video proves my point. That was VOYAGERS rediculous stupidity. Worst Trek series ever. There are videos pointing out how insanely dumb Voyagers science is.
This is definitely not a Discovery problem!
This was one of the worst cases of scientific mumbo jumbo ever in star strek.
In voyager.
The event horizon isn't an actual field... its the point in space that the pul from the black hole equals the speed of light, so even light can't exit. There is no hole. You can't wedge open gravity. You do however have a drive that bends spece better than a blackhole to move faster than light... so use it.
technically they never said it's a black hole , so it might have been some other space phenomenon all together and Neelix could just be an idiot who mistook it for a black hole in his explanation . but Discovery also makes no sense because if they have shields that prevent the effects of relativity and have the ability to move faster than light then there shouldn't really be any problem going in and out of a black hole
@@MajorGrin oh yeah, Nelix being dumb is an obvious thing, but the rest is still nonsense.
Pretty sure you did a joke about discovery when 2 people talk about the same thing and say the same timg at the same time just like they did in voyager did in this clip
yep
But to be fair: From a scientific standpoint, the Voyager Episode is pretty dumb
That episode of Voyager is a very poor one in general. Dreck vs dreck, I'll pass on both thanks.
illogical
If anything, Discovery stuck to actual science, not fictionalized science. 🤣
so we have magical spores that allow use to travel faster than light? I wasnt aware of this actual science being discovered.
ok, discovery is bad but I'll give it a pass on this one since the 'established cannon' made no sense in the first place
Why always whispering? WHY?
Miss Voyager so much, I’m due a rewatch soon - glad Discovery is over, it will never be rewatched, it will be forgotten and therefore all its violations to canon will be forgotten!
To be fair Discovery didnt forget anything, the writers have never watched star trek before. Cough Sonar in space cough.
Ironically, in-universe consistency aside, Voyager was full of crap in that episode. Incredibly, the Discovery episode is waaaaaaaaay more scientifically accurate... this time.
Voyager did have science advisors.
@@steveleeart That they clearly ignored.
@@steveleeart I'm sure they did. Though if "a crack in the event horizon" was approved by a science advisor, I cry for the scientific community.
@@DarthSpock1 science evolves and changes over time, as our understanding of the universe is ever changing. you weeping for the scientific community is showing your own ignorance of the ever changing. I doubt you are well versed in the scientific breakthroughs of the 1990's when the advisors were present in the writing room. To judge the past on the ideas of the future is stupidity in its purest form.
@@Shiirow .... That statement is akin to saying flat earthers deserve more respect for their scientific contributions. While the sentiment is fine, you seem to be the one lacking understanding of what the "event horizon" is, and basically fall under your own criticism. Seriously, it isn't a complicated principle, a quick wiki search could fill you in on how awful that dialog was. They may as well have said "we found a crack in that hole over there."
As a fan, I was usually among those doing mental gymnastics to make the goofy "science" work. And with some word play and arbitrary *assumptions* as to what they may have ACTUALLY meant with that terrible analogy, you can make it work and not have the immersion totally ruined, but the simple fact is that was a terrible bit of dialog misusing a well established scientific term.
Space Jesus making decisions for the whole universe again!
So you're saying that STD is full of crap with their technobabble...
By using absolute wrong techno babble and silly plots from earlier shows.
Both of them are stupid in different ways
Star Trek Discovery managed to top itself by ending its run with the mother of all stupid decisions. The people who made the worst Star Trek ever managed to end it in such a failure its not even worth laughing at. They spend an entire season chasing this technology that created life as we know it and once they find it they throw it away.
You are defending VOYAGER!?
I have one word for you. Tsunkaste.
You remember? The episode that was dictated by UPN because they demanded a cross-promotion with WRESTLING on their failed garbage network. The same show that did fake "will they or wont they" ads/promos about Seven of Nine"
I dont care what you say but if you think Voyager is better than Discovery, Picard or Strange New Worlds then you sir have lost all respect and credibility.
You literally cannot be serious here. Using Voyager to bash Discovery because bashing Nu Trek has become your gimmick?
Are you even a Star Trek fan? Doesn't seem like it! Voyager was a UPN cash grab, and it was garbage TV. Discovery for all its faults is light years better than that trash.
edit: Not only does Star Trek and wrestling not belong together, Wrestling is a joke and literally has NO fans
I havent watched S.T in years. What is this garbage ??????
St discovery storylines are so lame and unimaginative
Discovery isn't Startrek lore to me.