Glock 20 with Heavy Cast Bullets ( Chapter 2 )
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- Опубліковано 15 вер 2024
- Some follow-up bullet experimentation with the Glock 10mm and cast bullets. Our first video on this:
• Glock 20 with heavy ca...
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"I'm not a bulls-eye shooter, but I can hit a soda can at 100 yards."
See description. FMJ might work fine when penetration is needed through a bear skull, but I think most FMJ rounds still use soft lead. It would depend on the round and maybe whether it's bonded, etc. For big game hunting, there are "solids," of course. These are REALLY hard bullets made of bronze, copper, etc. I loaded some up when I had my .458 Winchester Magnum, just in case a Woolly Mammoth wandered onto the Compound. :-)
My Dad gave me his Glock model 20 with a plus 2 extender For my 9" barrel 44 mag. over 2500 rounds w the glock, and not one misfire, Thanks for everything Hickok. RIP Dad.
I am sorry for your loss...
May your pops Rest In Peace 🤙
"posting elsewhere"? Afraid not. We're UA-cam Partners and do everything here. Anti-gun people are just helping us buy ammo and keep the project going. We thank them. :-)
A .44 Special would be heavy, too, but it's the added velocity, along with a heavy bullet, that you get with a 10mm.
I love how he's so modest about his shooting ability. I think you're a great shot! This glock using cast bullets doesn't do you justice
Yes, if you get the polygonal rifling leaded up badly, some dangerous things can happen. That's why you don't shoot cast bullets in them, unless it's a specialty bullet like this that is gas checked and you're not going to shoot more than a few at a time. The polygonal rifling is supposed to create a tighter seal, which increases pressures. Supposedly, the same bullet will give a little more velocity out of a Glock barrel the same length as a different barrel with standard rifling.
This is the exact load I carry in my Glock 29 SF - DoubleTap 200gr hardcast in 10mm. Great stuff! I have put enough through my stock barrel to ensure function, and I'm happy Hickcock is supporting my practice of carrying outdoors with the stock barrel for reliability. MY ONLY CONCERN!: PICK UP A SPENT CASING AND NOTICE THE BIG BULGE NEAR THE NECK. A LITTLE SPOOKY. I'D LIKE HICKCOCK'S RESPONSE TO THIS. I HAVEN'T HAD ONE BURST YET, BUT THEY BULGE AND IT'S OBVIOUS. I still carry with it though.
I guess it's just difficult to put a brass jacket around hard lead. I'm not sure what the process is for making FMJ bullets, but my guess is that the softness of the lead is what makes it work.
Never gets old seeing you shoot. Such a damn good shot
god I love the sound of shells and casings on the floor when hickok walks..
Glad to see that Underwood came out with their 200g Coated Hard Cast Round!! Safe for Stock Glock barrels
Any hard cast is safe in a Glock barrel. Glock blankets their warning as lead in general but what they are really referring to is soft lead found in super crappy ammo or stuff people cast at home.
ACH91332
“Can I use lead bullets?
No, we recommend the use of jacketed ammunition only.”
Copied off Glocks G20 Gen 4 FAQ page
@@aaronsalvesen4553 a hard cast with no coating for protection is bad. Underwood and few only a few others are safe but they have to be coated. Or jacketed
The problem is the unsupported/oversize chamber. If you want to shoot lead or super hot bear loads you should get an aftermarket barrel. Glock barrels are designed for reliability, they chose to sacrifice pressure tollerence to achieve said reliability.
Would you recommend changing out the stock barrel on the G20 in order to shoot hard cast (200-230 grain)? My main use would be hiking in Griz country (Glacier National Park). Or would another ammo be better for my use? Thanks!
I just recently bought a Glock 20 as I’m moving to Alaska and am wondering the same thing!
The information you provide in this video is exactly why I watch this channel. Thank you
@ Austin Sword actually 10mm has more stopping power than a .45 by about a 150lbs of muzzle energy.
@Nicholas Rodriguez no 45apc rounds can match any 10 mm rounds.. if you want 45 to have that type of power you need the 460 Rowland.
45 apc rounds are big and slow. 10 millimeter is Glocks most powerful pistol. All you get with 45apc is less rounds. And 9 mm will outperform a 45 APC in every way. Except for the people that think knock down power which is a myth.
@Nicholas Rodriguez 45apc is not hard to handle. It's a great round just doesn't have the capacity. Ya need 460 Rowland or 45 super. If you want to waste that kind of room in the magazine. if you're quick to get back on target with 45 you'll be even better with a 9mm. Shot placement is important not caliber. Bigger isn't better in a handgun. Plain and simple.
@Nicholas Rodriguez And 45aarp is for old folks who don't understand modern technology.
LMAO, 45 AARP. 45 acp is held very dear by boomers
That could be part of it. I think it's harder for the polygonal rifling to hang onto a cast bullet, so the weight makes a difference. The 30 grains extra with the 230 bullets seems to be just enough to give it fits. I went back and looked at the first video. Wow, the bullets were all over the place. Hickok definitely rambled too much in those early videos, but I made myself sit through the whole thing anyway. :-)
Thanks for the part 2 Hickok. The 10mm is my favorite caliber. It is a great cartridge if you want revolver power in an auto-loading platform.
10mm is balistically similar to
.41magnum
Uhhh….its closer to 40 s&w than 41 mag.
A FMJ bullet is not necessarily a "solid." They are generally not as hard as a hard cast lead bullet, despite the copper jacket. It usually covers soft lead. Generally, it would probably work fine; it's just that for dangerous game where penetration through bone is important, a hard cast bullet has always been attractive.
The Glock 20...next on my list to purchase! Btw, Life is good! I just watched the video yesterday that you referenced in this video and to wake up and see that you had a part two...AWESOME!!! Thanks again for all that you and John do.
I love the 10mm. Absolutely love it.
I love the sound that is made when he walks down.
That thing was like a laser beam on that last shot to the gong!!! Mean gun!!! You just gotta love Glocks. If I see a Gen 4 G20 in California for sale I would buy it.
drewmorg won’t have anything gen 4 in Cali don’t sell em here
@@bourboncowboy7715 Because it's an extremely place nice to live.
It's the heavy cast bullets in the stock barrel. I thought these two videos pretty much confirmed that. That certainly do for me.
Thanks for both these reviews (2010 & 2013). I've been on the fence about a 10MM for a couple of years now. Trying to decide which one is for me. I'm down to the Delta Elite and the 20. I like what you say about both "Griz Stoppers". (My dilemma is the full metal Delta or the 15 rounds 20.) Decisions-Decisions.... Great vids, Ty.
Watching these 10mm videos made me reconsider my 'avoidance' of 10mm and after watching Hickok's Glock 40 (and of course, "Justinopinions") videos finally ordered the behemoth G-40 and all of the reloading dies for this cartridge along with Lone Wolf barrel. Hopefully, this will be the last gun I ever ordered. Thx Hickok :)
I carry a glock 10 mm I have to also seen problems in the 30 yard and after range, i assumed it was the heavy round. Nice to see someone do a more in depth video. Thanks hickok
Maybe so, but my preferred method of "spray" would still be 200 grain lead. :-)
My dept. has Standard issue 9mm, and .40, but they offer all officers a chance to qualify with any weapon of their choice so long they can carry more than 10rds of ammo. I qualified with my G20, and a buddy of mine uses his G31. I'd like to see more departments follow this model.
Sir, you have so much fun making these videos. It's obvious from the way you talk. That makes you fun to watch. Plus, you shoot guns that a regular guy like me would actually buy!
I love how your "spread them around" group is tighter than me trying for tight hits! You rock, Hickok!
fortune cookie 45 explained it well. its not the rifling, the problem even with factory ammo is the loose chamber and UN supported chamber at the feed ramp. cases blow out there and reloaded cases have more chance of being weak.
Thank you. That's very much appreciated. I believe Buffalo Bore is considered top quality. They typically have the hottest rounds in every caliber I've ever seen. Since Buffalo Bore is premium ammo and pretty expensive, they're pretty much always in stock. I have some of their 180 grain 10mm JHP. Very, very powerful. I want to get some of their 220 grain hard casts but I won't buy them until I find out if they tumble or not out of a stock Glock 20 barrel.
That was a joke. I don't even own a .25 ACP.
Them brain farts getcha every time lol.
I mention shorter projectiles because longer projectiles need faster twist rates to stabilize, which applies to conventional rifling.
That's why the later versions of the U.S. military standard issue M-16 have faster twist rifling to stabilize the heavier bullets that the military wanted to use.
And you're English is excellent, so far better than my Portuguese, which I can't speak a single word of.
After the first video, I don't understand the comment regarding not carrying with the Lone Wolf barrel since it was infinitely more accurate than the stock barrel...
I know this is an ancient one, but +10 to hickock for being the first person to properly pronounce po-LIG'-uh-nul in the context of rifling on the internet. A deadeye, scholar, and a gentleman that one.
I've had good luck loading Missouri Bullet company's hard cast 180 and 200 gr hard cast lead in my Glock 20. Another good video Hickok...
I couldn't tell if for some reason you had spurs on or if you were just wading through spent rounds. Great video as always Hickok.
I just wanted to thank you! I have learned alot with the guns you have tested. Im now in the process of getting my firearms permit in the great crappy state of New Jersey. I will be purchasing an xdm45 acp and a remington 700 or 783. Thanks again and keep up the great work!
Try a 22# spring in the Glock 20 with stock barrel with 220 grain hard cast loads, made a big difference in accuracy and shot to shot velocity difference. Also worked well in Springfield XDM 10 mm. Used to be some information on spring weight recommendations on Buffalo Bore technical data.
hickok
really like the videos
i think its awesome that as you walk on your range all we can hear is brass getting kicked around. thats kick ass
Lead, even hard cast lead, is much softer than copper or guilding metal used in jackets. It would not scratch or damage the rifiling. It will deposit lead in the barrel which will need to be removed periodically. Failure to clean the lead out of Glock barrels until the buildup causes excessive pressure is the concern.
Whooo just picked up 400rnd of 40S&W at the local gandermountain. Yay now i can go shooting after this sweet hickok45 video
I say keep the Glock videos coming. I know you've covered so much about them already. But I also know you love to shoot them and we love to watch you love to shoot them. Thank you Hickok and BigJohn!
This has me concerned. Didn't realize how horrible the 230 grain casts 10mm were. I noticed that Buffalo Bore has a 200 grain FMJ round. Would the 200 grain hard cast be the best bet for big bears? Want to use the Glock factory barrel for reliability. What would you carry in a Glock 20 for defense against bears?
I have the G29 and Love it. It is my back up when I am bow hunting.
The tumbling issue is not due to the cast lead bullets. It is the weight at 230 grains. The longer and heavier a bullet is, the faster the twist rate required to stabilize it.
A bullet that is not spinning fast enough to be stable will tumble, even at short ranges. This is the reason for the 1 in 7" twist of the new AR-15s, to properly stabilize the 63 grain slugs. The older 1 in 9" twist is only for 55 grain and below.
Howard Leight Quiet Bands. I have two pairs and I love them for outdoor ranges. At indoor ranges where the sound is bouncing around all over the place you may want something heavier.
Thanks Hickok45
I heard CheaperThanDirt is changing it's name to SlightlyMoreExpensiveThan Gold!
Not like it was many years ago
They price gouge during every crisis. Just like the left they never let one go to waste
Hickok with a Glock is the UA-cam equivalent of Dirty Harry with his trusty .44 mag
Hickok if you want deep penetration with the factory barrel I would look at Underwood ammo using the 10mm extreme penetrator. A comparison video of Hard Cast with aftermarket barrel vs. extreme penetrator in factory barrel would be really interesting. .22 plinkster used a Glock 10mm with extreme penetrator and it penetrated bullet proof glass. I have never heard of anyone using an extreme penatrator round on bear but I don't see any reason why it wouldn't work as well or even better than the hard cast lead.
kyler71 I figured as much too but since those are typically 140 grain you have the extra brutal momentum that helps when it comes to a bear stopping round that is proven.
I wonder this same thing. I carry the penetrator round in my 29 sf backcountry
They say 1500 fps!
Grizz or black bear country?
Hickock if you get a chance try out the Buffalobore 10mm ammo some hot stuff
Great demonstration on the 10mm Glock 20.
10mm works on a 200-300lb deer, but an average adult male grizzly is 700lbs and has been seen up to 1500lbs. They are solitary animals but where food is plentiful there can be more. They can be found in limited areas of Montana, Wyoming, Idaho, and Washington, and to a greater extent Alaska and western Canada. They are more likely to issue threats and posture than attack so having bear spray is good first line of defense. Where there are cubs there is a mother and mothers tend to be protective.
I must commend you on your accuracy, excellent shooting sir. Also, that's an awesome speed loader.
I love how hickok is trying to get glock to release a new barrel just for him :) good on you man, hope they listen to you.
Just got a G20 Gen 4 today.
FMJ is made using a swageing process, that is, pressing lead into a jacket using a press and various dies. Hard-cast lead would be difficult if not impossible to swage due to its relative brittleness compared to soft- or virgin-lead.
Let's try Underwood 180 grain extreme penetrateor in your Glock 20/10MM
Great video as always ! I just got my first glock last month and it is the glock 20 gen 3 love it !
I use a KKM barrel in all my Glocks I’ve had zero issues. In fact, I’ve had more problems with the stock barrels prior to changing them. The added bonus is, I can shoot hard cast and have had no reliability issues. I have had, however, issues with the Lonewolf barrel.
Hi, Scotty. I would strongly disagree with whoever told you that the 10mm was dying. A few years ago that may have been true, but recently several companies like Double Tap, Buffalo Bore, and Underwood began selling 10mm loads that are full power and not the "FBI Light" loads and the true potential of the 10mm cartridge is now available to even those of us who are not reloaders. I have seen the 10mm growing in popularity and availability in the last 3 or 4 years. It is an outstanding choice.
I just bought a Glock 40, and 300 rounds of 200 grain hard cast bullets to try out. I wasn't aware of the possible problem using cast in Glock guns. However I have been doing research, and one thing for sure, many many people are using commercially available cast bullets in their Glocks, with no problems. I believe there is a miss conception on what is casted lead bullets, vs hard cast alloy bullets, like used in the HSM Bear Load line etc. The "cast" bullets they use, are Brinell hardness of 15, which is super hard, and should not lead foul up barrels with much lead at all.
yes.. they are called key drive slugs.. the idea is in a rifled barrel the wad would transfer the spin to the slug by that bar.. but im using a smooth cylender bore mossberg maverick 88..
Wow your not kidding those 10mm pack a punch knocking down those rams isn't easy to do watching your other videos.
I don't understand why a lot of people say that these full power, hardcast bullets are not reliable in the Glock 20. I have seen lots of guys say the Underwood 220 grain hardcasts will jam at least once in every few magazines. They have tried swapping the recoil springs out for a heavier spring, and some say this solves the problem, while others say they continue to have problems. I would really like to see you shoot some of those 220 grain Underwoods and see if you find the same issues... Preferably at least 200 rounds minimum to ensure reliability.
I am a Glock armorer and you were right, Glock says DO NOT shoot cast bullets with their weapons as it will void all warranty coverage. When breaking down a Glock handgun however, I don't know how one would determine if cast bullets were shot out of a weapon-especially if the "violator" cleaned the barrel properly before turning it in for repair...In any event, the cast bullets seem to be more of an "up close" type ammo...thanks again for a great review.
great video! Mike McNett really knows how to make em hot!! and hickok45- the most enjoyable gun reviews period!
I would like to see a picture of what it would look like if you piled all of the empty brass from cartridges this man has shot! For those of you who are not familiar with shooting hand guns, this man is one hell of a shot. He makes shots with a hand gun that many could not make with a rifle.
Buffalo bore work great in a stock barrel. In addition, there is a difference between cast and hard cast. Cast bullets aren't recommended for polygonal rifling. Hard cast do no foul like regular cast. I've fired hundreds of hard cast through my G20 in both 5 and 6 inch barrels with no problems or excess fouling.
i like how when you walk on the rang instead of hearing the crunch of leaves wood chips gravel or dirt you hear the clinking of shells and or casings.
that single 200 grainer was lightning fast!
That is real good useful information. Accuracy, and adequacy along with the compatibility of load to componentry appear to be the equation one can not afford to miss. Doubletap also seems to speak quite highly of their 10mm 200gr. Controlled Expansion JHP, but I wonder how accurate it is. I also would tend to think that their 10mm 180gr. FMJ MATCH @ 1250fps Practice Load might be good for the first few rounds because of it's said accuracy, especially if a dangerous creature began to charge at a distance. Even thinking about walking near to or in the woods sure makes one think....a lot. It was not explained though why you would not employ a custom barrel in the woods if it proved to shoot the 230 grain hardcast more accurately; I am perplexed by that. Maybe just everyone has their own style, and their own way of thinkin. With the 200 grain hardcast being so effective, and accurate, perhaps the extra barrel and 230 grain is just unnecessary.
I don't trust the reliability of a replacement barrel if dangerous game or dangerous two-legged critters are a possibility. Other than that, they would be fine.
Blessed be the man who inherits hickok's armory.
If you're talking about the armor piercing KTW armor-piercing (teflon coated to protect the rifling only NOT PENETRATION, solid bronze or brass core) round for handguns that the anti-gunners turned into a total "cop killer" boogeyman, yes, those specifically are banned.
However, steel core centerfire rifle ammo is widely available as milsurp, and even most standard lead core centerfire rifle bullets will penetrate significantly better than nearly all conventional handgun bullets.
Hickok45 I would love to see you review 10mm hard cast ammo from underwood. They are hi-tek coated 220 gr and 200gr.
We don't "review" ammo; otherwise, we could not take support from Federal Premium. We don't review any entity that sponsors us - no credibility if you're comparing products and getting sponsorship from somebody in the same field.
@@hickok45 👍 understood.
A short, handy, rifle in 45-70 would be my choice for a backwoods gun, could take of anything in North America pretty effectively. A 10mm pistol makes a great back up though if your primary goes "tango uniform."
Got to love the 10mm!
In general, lead bullets would disagree with polygonal rifling as it is not aggressive enough for them, however there should be no damage to the barrel. I imagine it would be somewhat messier and harder to clean, but that's to be expected of a non jacketed bullet.
That is a uplula speed loader. You can find them on Amazon.
Ah right, I thought the ideal would be a HP or FMJ so all the energy goes into the target. With a large animal a softer bullet might not get through the soft tissue/bone into the vitals before deforming?
I'm from England so although I love firearms I don't have much "hands on" experience of proper stuff!
Very impressed with getting a reply from the man himself as well :D
I very much enjoy you're videos Hickok45, Thank You!
That's it exactly.
It's the same reason that Marlin switched from their otherwise excellent "Micro-Groove" rifling in their centerfire lever guns to Ballard-style (deep cut standard) rifling.
They wanted shooters to be able to shoot hard cast and heavy bullets that were insufficiently stabilized by the shallow grooves of their Micro-Groove rifling.
The polygonal rifling in the Glock has advantages (theoretically better accuracy with standard weight and type bullets, longer life, easier to clean)
Always loved your videos still love them today. Great job. Keep them coming. :)
1) Steel-core bullets probably wouldn't work because they would be too hard to deform slightly on firing to engage the rifling. It's been tried, but there's a reason you don't see it on the shelf for handgun ammo. Armor piercing rifle ammo is another matter.
2) The reason that hard cast still has a place over solid bronze or copper in handguns is expense, ability to be made by handloaders, and you get shorter projectiles that stabilize in standard twist rifling better.
I Love the noise it makes when you walk by the shooting zone. Shells Everywhere
Specifically talking about barrel length.....Do you think you sacrifice performance/ lethality for bear bear protection using a G29, as apposed to a G20? I'm torn between the 2. However, I feel the G20 would have much more shootability with gloves & recoil in a hunting scenario.
Cant beat some hickok45 & Glock action!
I have heard of Glock barrels having catastophic failure around 300 rounds when using lead bullets. Remeber to clean often.
Gen 3 Delica and Endura use that style pocket clip. They are also used on the H1 steel Pacific Salt and Salt 1.
I would assume the 230 grain bullets are too small in diameter causing the tumble. Did you check for any leading? I shoot some pretty heavy cast out of colt 45 new vaquero at 500 fps with great accuracy. My cast I size anywhere from .001 to .003 over bore for best accuracy. I also powder coat them. Never leaded a barrel after 1000's of rounds through the chamber.
If it is a steel core round that is considered armor piercing then it is not legal for retail sale in the US. Military and police can use it, but it is a specifically controlled item. There are bullets that are steel jacketed that are legal. The Russian ammo companies tend to like to pour lead into a thin, extruded steel jacket and then copper coat that. Those rounds will not penetrate any better than other FMJ rounds so they are legal for civilian sale.
I believe isn't "rifling' that is to blame, first rifled weapons had polygonal barrels (grooves came later), including insane triangular and square designs, and shot cast led ammo (there was no other anyway) just nicely.
Cast lead bullets are different than Hardcast much harder ! Suggest Underwood ! The Underwood velocity on box is false much lower ! Underwood 200gr Hardcast very popular in Alaska.
I'll pick some up when I can find them and try them.
Excellent video. I was wondering about hard cast bullets myself. Thanks.
I want to start a petition to get Hickok on an episode of "Justified".
More companies should totally make their own 10mm pistols, I personally, would love a Smith and Wesson M&P in 10mm chambering.
Hickok, I just picked a gen3 Glock 20 and a bunch of full house jacketed 180 gr. double tap. I was reading about people changing recoil springs. Have you ever felt the need to do this or felt like there would be a benefit? I've always ran all of my Glock 100% stock.
baugus423 yep 👍 swap out the stock 18# recoil spring with a 22# recoil spring and drop in a Lone Wolf barrel , you’re good to go !
The big browns have been taken with a .44 mag. Shot placement is everything.
I didn't know Underwood offered hard cast 10mm bullets. I'll check it out.