Hey guys, I’d like to say a few words regarding Christopher Tolkien’s recent passing, which is a tremendous loss for the Lord of the Rings community and the world of literature. Christopher Tolkien spent many years gathering his father’s notes, letters and stories and countless hours compiling them and thanks to his hard work we were able to experience The Silmarillion, the Unfinished Tales, The Children of Hurin, The story of Beren and Luthien, The Fall of Gondolin and the 12 Volume Histories of Middle-Earth. It’s very clear that without his work the world of Middle-Earth would have been a lot emptier and I can’t begin to express how sad I was to learn that he recently passed away. I just wanted to emphasis this message, because I feel that sometimes his contributions to his father’s works are significantly undervalued and it really shouldn’t be so.
Yes. What we have today from JRR is probably more attributed to the caretaking efforts of Christopher Tolkien than even JRR himself. He lived a long and fruitful life and you can't ask for more than that. Hopefully the grandson can be as productive and proactive to continue to further Christopher's painstaking work.
I always see people say that Sam is the true hero of the story. But I say that both Frodo and Sam were equally deserving for their achievement in sending the ring in Mount Doom. I always saw that Sam was essential for physical strenght and moral support to get to their destination, where Frodo always represented the mental strength and high spirit. Sam would not had been able to stand against the ring's power and Frodo would not had made the end of the journey without his friend. Both of them are like half of what represent a strong person in body, mind, will and spirit but it takes their combined forces to achieve these characteristics.
@@W4TSKY Because there is not a character who wouldn't have succumbed to the ring. Sam would have probably fallen much faster, as it was mainly his loyalty to his friend and desire to support him that guided him through the journey, whereas Frodo gave his life to destroy a ring that would have been the immediate undoing of most in Middle Earth.
Yes many people over look that fact. Gandalf was a maiar and would not hold onto it for any length of time, he only held if to throw it into the fire then had Frodo pick it up. Galadriel was one of the most powerful elves left on middle Earth, to the point that SHE was the one who banished Sauron (necromancer) from mirkwood forest, yet she wouldn't even TOUCH the ring. Tells you something the Frodo a mere mortal hobbit could resist the ring longer than the most powerful IMMORTALS.
John Richardson - The rings of power were made to control the particular races of people: elves, dwarves, and men. There were no rings made to control hobbits so they were less affected by the one ring's corruption. This applies to Gollum as well as Frodo, but ultimately Frodo failed.
@JRPGFan20000 I agree. The relative immunity of corruption of hobbits and their lack of desire to dominate must have made them the most likely of candidates to be bearer - not forgetting, of course, their in-built courage and fortitude which still impressed Gandalf and Strider and all those who met them for the first time. In a way it's a shame Tom Bombadil couldn't have been persuaded to bear the ring. It had no power over him whatsoever but, perhaps that is precisely why he wouldn't have made a good ring-bearer. He would not have seen its importance and might have simply thrown it away or even given it to anyone who asked because, as he had no material needs or desire for power, he wouldn't have understood its ability to corrupt. If memory serves me right I think this was discussed at the council of Elrond and was dismissed for those reasons..
In my own opinion, Frodo was simply overpowered by the Ring in its last-ditch attempt to avoid destruction; a case can be made for what the Ring itself intended was to be claimed by Frodo, who would himself be overpowered by the Nazgul shortly afterwards when they arrived at Mt.Doom in response to Sauron's summons, thus returning it to its master from the brink.
@@GeekZoneMT , I also believe that a case can be made for that either the Valar or Eru himself gave Gollum a tiny push to overbalance him; not having read the Letters, I'm fully aware this is pure conjecture on my part.
Phoggbanque I fully agree I mean put yourself in the ring’s position. Wouldn’t you be doing literally everything in your power to not be destroyed? I know I would be promising things I didn’t even have the power to deliver on in order to prevent my own destruction.
Something else noteworthy, is the unseen elements. The land of Mordor itself is a dark, overpowering, inhospitable, evil location - and inside Mt Doom, where the ring was created would be even darker still. In the place of the ring's creation, under the darkness of Sauron, the ring would have had greater strength. Even the most powerful and wise could not always have sight into the lands of Mordor, Gandalf even states that 'Frodo has passed beyond his sight', whether he means literally with his mind's eye, or mentally with Frodo's fall in a metaphorical sense. Really the only comparison we have had of another individual in the same situation as Frodo is Isildur, who obviously failed to destroy the ring and keep it for himself. Sauron's greatest strength was his will over others, so it makes perfect sense that is the ring's greatest strength too, being a part of Sauron. At the heart of Mt Doom, the ring's power was at it's strength.
Phoggbanque it's stated that the tripping of Gollum was the ONLY time ERU directly intervened in the mortal world during the third age. I believe he has only intervened 3 or so times in total during all the ages.
It had to be done, and yet it was simply not possible for Frodo to do. All Frodo could do, was take it as far as he could before handing the torch to fate. He took it far enough.
Frodo did exactly what he needed to do, get the ring to mount doom, it was always Gollums fate to destroy it but Frodo was the only one who could get it to mount doom (well actually Sam would have made it if Frodo had died so let's not forget Sam, at least that's what I believe). If you look at it the third ag was the age of the hobbits. If you take Gollum, Bilbo and Frodo the ring was held by hobbits for almost the entire age, no other race can claim ownership of the one Ring for that long without being corrupted completely (Gollum was corrupted but not completely) also they are the ones who destroyed it and saved the world. So for all the humans, dwarves, elves and valars strengths it was the smallest and weakest of them all that ended Sauron once and for all.
I never thought about this. It makes Frodo's journey all the more desperate and tragic. I love him all the more for it and would like to believe that Tolkien's message is that a valiant attempt to do good until one's strength absolutely fails will be rewarded by a fateful intervention. That Frodo's salvation would come from a Halfling kinsman, no matter how corrupt, also seems beyond mere coincidence.
Thank you. Frodo’s sacrifice makes one love him! I now realise that Sam’s devotion was not just about Sam’s goodness.Sam knew Frodo better than anyone and loved him because Frodo was such a person to deserve such devotion. We have glimpses of this in other characters - Pippin and Merry of course but also Aragorn and Faramir.
Perhaps Gandalf, in his wisdom, made Sam go with Frodo as he knew Frodo would not have had the will to destroy the ring (as even Gandalf didn't trust his own will) and maybe Gandalf trusted Sam to finish the task....
Thank you, this is a very interesting-looking video and I cannot wait to finish it. Christopher Tolkien was amazing. God rest his soul. Rest in peace Christopher.
The brilliance of Tolkien’s work is that all this fits together like a wonderfully complex jigsaw Bilbo’s partial corruption by the ring, spoke to the impossible task handed to Frodo Whether or not he was ultimately successful in his task, isn’t really the point to the readers or, I imagine, JRR - it was the unbelievable courage and heroism of the two hobbits (Frodo and Sam) to actually get to Mount Doom. It was a truly last gasp strategy to have a fellowship travel all that way through Mordor with the ring and only the slimmest of hopes to have the ring destroyed. Sam was the hero that helped and ultimately led a happy life once the conflict over. The brilliance of Frodo is that he took it all that way and the corruption got him, and whilst Gollum eventually was the cause of the rings destruction, Frodo’s cross is that he failed at the last and this played on his mind as did the ‘stain’ of the corruption wrought on the ring bearer. His is the more tragic tale and the more sad (and in a way has echoes of Smeagle’s descent to madness through absence from the ring) It really is a stunningly complex and beautifully constructed story RIP Christopher
Before watching your answer, here's mine: No, he didn't fail. Frodo was chosen for his qualities, which include those that made two essential relationships possible. His empathy for Smeagol made him spare him, and this ultimately resulted in the presence of Gollum at Mt Doom, without which Frodo may indeed have kept the ring and delivered it to Sauron. Second, his brotherly sense of community, exemplified by his friendship with Samwise. Without Sam, he never would have made it to Mt. Doom, and I believe that even if you removed Gollum from the equation Sam may well have stopped Frodo in the end. But the point is that because he possessed these Hobbit-ish qualities, Frodo DID succeed. He just didn't succeed alone.
I like the Irony that the Rings own efforts of evil and manipulation are also the reason for its destruction. it coincides with the real world philosophy that evil plants the seeds of its own undoing.
As the Professor had written it was not a failure. He gave everything and got the ring to Mt. Doom. Also The Professor writes of evil eventually destroys itself. Good did not defeat evil will always do something to destroy itself but just because Good does not necessarily defeat evil good acts are worthy in and of themselves. Also as you point out mercy plays a large portion in the fate of the ring. Both Bilbo and Frodo show mercy toward Gollum and in these acts of mercy the fate of the world is changed. Gollum through his own actions to get the ring for himself destroys it. The true tragedy is that Frodo feels like a failure and he is so not a failure. Nobody could have done more to bring the ring to where its fate could be decided. Thanks for the video. A difficult subject well discussed. The greatness of the Professor's work is that there are no easy answers. Honest effort and the intention to do the right, but very hard thing is what matters in the end.
This was a genuinely beautiful video. You address so many aspects (in all of your videos) with academic insight but also emotion, empathy and sincerity. I value your videos very much. Thank you.
Frodo played his part. And, he went far beyond any reasonable expectation for any individual. Far more powerful figures refused the burden because they knew that they would fail, and yet Frodo took the task on and walked the ring right up to the edge of the precipice. No one could ask more of any person. Frodo deserved his honors, as did the rest of the Hobbits.
The Ring failed in its strategy and its quest. In order to get back to Sauron, it always caused discord between those who wanted to possess it. Thus, it was always likely to pass from weaker to stronger possessors, until it found someone strong enough to wield it. That person would then be noticed by Sauron, who would have the chance to win it back. But the Ring was unlucky. It found its way to Gollum, who kept it hidden for centuries; then to Bilbo, who was merciful enough to spare Gollum and strong enough (with Gandalf's help) to leave the Ring behind; then to Frodo, who also was merciful enough to spare Gollum and was strong enough to take the Ring to the one place where it could be destroyed. It finally overcame Frodo's resistance, but - as before - incited murderous envy in Gollum. So a desparate battle took place high above a lake of lava. In that one place where it was vulnerable, the Ring's strength worked against it. So the story isn't about Frodo trying and failing. It's about evil ultimately being self-defeating, when good people do their utmost.
As a new subscriber, I'm very impressed with the amount of work, cross referencing and compilation of middle earth facts you have accomplished. I have read The Lord of Rings trilogy and before that Bilbo's story but not all the other background material that is available. So thanks for all your hard work.
Depends on how you define failed. As a whole he failed because he succumbed to the Ring. He succeeded by bringing it all the way to Mt Doom where Gollum fell with it thus destroying it.
I do not think he morally failed because of his pity and mercy shown for Golem. If he would have had contempt and hatred like most did towards Golem then he would have been a failure at his quest. His compassion made him rise above the evil of his world and that would eventually be the weapon to destroy it.
Super great video!!! Sam would have died for Frodo. Gandalf knew this, and I think deep down he hoped Sam would be the one to encourage Frodo to give the ring up if in the end, Frodo gave in like Isildur did. Sam would do anything to save Frodo from harm, and if that meant follow him into Mt. Doom and possibly die, then that's what he would do. However...Gollum was the last piece to the puzzle. Without Gollum, the ring would have survived. And this only happened because of Frodo. While Sam saw through Gollum, it was Frodo's understanding of Smeagol's suffering that never allowed Gollum to be killed. While it frustrates us to see how he trusts in Gollum so easily, we have to remember that it is this small hope that keeps them going. Hoping that Gollum could possibly be saved, made him a fool- but that hope ultimately saved the world. I think Sam was needed for the journey, but it was Frodo's inner strength and heart that saved Gollum, and only Frodo's struggle with Gollum could have lled to the destruction of the ring.
There are so many layers and complexities to Tolkien's work that you really need to read up on his scholarly work and private letters to truly understand LOTR. Because there are REALLY good reasons and reasoning behind similarly trivial or odd design choices he made about everything in LOTR. Maybe more revealing than anything, Tolkien's deep faith really shaped the metaphysics and other deep aspects of LOTR.
4:07 the reason he safet gollem, is because he saw a future self. They are both ring barrels. Frodo though if he could safe him, someone could safe him(frodo) in the future
Was very glad to see this video. It really is an important part of the story that needs to be told more often I think. It really was a beautiful thing that Tolkien put in his story, profoundly sad, but also incredibly beautiful because it shows that evil can overcome us but out actions have significant after effects that we may not see until foresight.
The ring was designed to prevent its own destruction. It was literally infused with Sauron's will. It would never permit anyone to throw it into the fire that would destroy it. Certainly no human, hobbit or dwarf could overcome its will. Galadriel and Gandalf wouldn't even take it when they were a very long distance from Mt. Doom, which suggests that if they were at Mt. Doom they couldn't have thrown it in either. Nobody but a Valar could have thrown it in.
Frodo did the job, however it was Sam who legit carried this mission without a doubt. So they both had their parts to play. They both sacrificed so much.
Thank you so much. I watched this video so many times not only because of Frodo, but more to listen to your commentary. If only our priest was as clear as you when he talked of mercy and salvation. Blessings.
I would say yes. However, Frodo was weakened by his mission and all the challenges put forth before them. Gollum and Frodo we’re intertwined and each had parts of completing the mission.
Frodo absolutely failed at the end because of Sauron’s malevolence. Only Gollum’s greed destroyed the One Ring in the end. Tolkien was a genius and understood human nature so well. Thanks for this vid Carl.
Great video. But it seems to me that there is at least one living being that would have been able to both resist the lure of the ring and resist the one ring in it's final moment: Tom Bombadil. Of course, we all know there are other reasons why he would never have made it anywhere near as far as Frodo; I'm only talking about the two criteria mentioned.
True though I feel that there's no chance that he would have accepted to undertake the quest and during the council of elrond I believe they mentioned that he would be careless with the ring for he wouldn't appreciate its significance
Does that mean Boromir was a failure because he broke his oath by trying to take the ring? He came to the end of his ability to withstand the power of the One Ring yet when he came back to his senses, he gave every last bit of life in him to defend Merry and Pippin and ultimately swore allegiance to Aragorn, the True King. My opinion is that Boromir initially failed but in the end redeemed himself. It's what you do with what you have and not your lack that is the measurement of success or failure. Maybe Frodo wished he had more in him that would have allowed him to not be overpowered by the Ring but that is ego. That would have ruined the whole story. Ego and strength doesn't save MiddleEarth. Friendship, perseverance though suffering, love and sacrifice did.
Just like Ilsildure the ring overpowered Frodo just before casting the ring into the fires of Mount Doom. I agree that Frodo failed in the literal sense but yes this was a task made to fail and that even though Frodo was choosing to keep the ring I feel like a lot of people overlook Sam in this situation. We see through the whole movie how Sam sticks with Frodo and the task at hand no matter what came up in their path and at the final end we see that Sam is unwilling to see his friend be turned due to the power that this ring has and therefore does his part in helping destroy the ring but at the same time rescue his friend. We also see that the ring could have overtaken Frodo at any point along the journey yet it didn’t and therefore it was largely a success with the fact that they made into Mordor and the edge of the fires of Mt. Doom. Without Sam I personally do not believe Frodo would have made it that way without Sam by his side.
That’s true but Sam would not have stopped Frodo at the end. Frodo had been completely corrupted by that point and went invisible. We knew Sam just didn’t have it in him to hurt Frodo at any cost so without Gollum intervention then Sauron would have won.
Samwise Gamgee deserves just as much credit. The Quest broke poor Frodo and it was the rock solid support of Samwise that kept him going. Stabbed with a Mogul blade, stung by Shelob, Gollum bit off his ring finger, its a miracle they even made it to Mount Doom at all. But they did, the Ring was destroyed and they survived to return home.
The way I see it, the compassion that Frodo showed towards Gollum bought him the results seen in the end game. Frodo’s story represents what we as humans can do to fight limitless evil, as very limited beings. Frodo’s compassion allowed the set of events to unfold where Sauron's evil and corruption ended up consuming itself.
I always thought this. Gollum is the real hero of the book. He is an anti-hero or a tragic hero. That's why his character is so alluring, because deep down you feel for him.
As Gandalf tells Frodo in FOTR, "For even the very wise cannot see all ends." As Prof. Ransom tells Merlin in That Hideous Strength, "And so the wicked man had brought about, even as Judas brought about, the thing he least intended." As William Cowper writes in his hymn, "God moves in a mysterious way, His wonders to perform; He plants his footsteps in the sea, And rides upon the storm. "Deep in unfathomable mines Of never failing skill; He treasures up his bright designs, And works His sovereign will. "Ye fearful saints fresh courage take, The clouds ye so much dread Are big with mercy, and shall break In blessings on your head. "Judge not the Lord by feeble sense, But trust him for his grace; Behind a frowning providence, He hides a smiling face. "His purposes will ripen fast, Unfolding ev'ry hour; The bud may have a bitter taste, But sweet will be the flow'r. "Blind unbelief is sure to err, And scan his work in vain; God is his own interpreter, And he will make it plain."
He knew he couldn't destroy it BUT he brought the ring to where it could be destroyed. Which in itself was a great deed. Kind of like Rocky ... first movie....he knew he couldn't win the fight so went for the distance...something very difficult but he was capable of doing. In a complicated, deadly, impossible situation the definition of "success" and "failure" is complicated, too. I would say that Frodo gave what he could, and in the process gave up his life in Middle-earth. How could anyone judge him? Success? Failure? We need other terms to analyze what was lost and what was gained. And in the end, Frodo was given peace.
I really hope he found peace. The other hobbits are able to go back to a fairly normal life, but not Frodo - his were unique wounds which could not be healed in this world. Part of Frodo’s burden was that his struggles were not understood - and that continues on this thread. I think we often do not recognise the great heroes like Frodo because their heroism results in them being broken.
I declare this video to be better that 88% of what most religions teach! ❤️ That said, even with this in mind, I do still like the movie a bit more where Frodo pushed Gollum in as opposed to G just slipping. It still adds for some much needed redemption for Frodo, but still works (in way even more) as it was, in a way, the ring destroying itself through its corruption of Gollum and Frodo
The power of the ring was to bend the will of other living creatures to your own. After gollum attempted to take the ring earlier frodo's had used the ring. He told gollum "the next Time you try to take the ring you will throw yourself into the fires of mount doom!" Gollum did just that. Frodo's also saved gollums life on many occasions by saying he had a "role to play". So it turned out that was the way the ring was destroyed.
I'd agree, arguing for a moral capacity theory--any mortal was always going to fail, and of those who wouldn't ever fail, they would be poor managers of the ring's evil as with Tom Bombadil. That makes it a matter for a common prone-ness to failure and the need for a sort of transcendence. We can imagine Frodo feeling empty from having been riven against his final will from what would have been his autocracy over the entire world. And in this sense none can be trusted with absolute power, hence requirement of a common moral understanding of a common transcendent intercessor, someone Frodo perhaps seems to others similar to, a messianic paragon. But to himself and those who know better even the good Frodo cannot personify this ideal, nor Sam or Gandalf or anyone mortal.
Personally I can't see how it could be argued Frodo failed in his mission. From everything I know of the lore there was only one being in Middle Earth that could resist the ring and that was Tom Bombadil in fact in all of Arda it is likely only the Valar would have been able to resist the ring, but I base this only on the premise that Sauron was possibly the most powerful of all Maiar in Arda, just as Melkor was pre-eminent amongst the Valar. This explains why only the Valar would be able to resist the ring where everyone else failed. Only their will amongst all the beings of Arda was greater than Saurons. Of course maybe that's not how the ring works, as it seems it works by amplifying your desires, as both Galadriel and Gandalf said, they would both set out to use it for good and become more terrible than Frodo could imagine. Maybe that's why hobbits have higher resistance to the ring than most, because they don't really have grand desires, they just wish to stay in the Shire, eat drink and be merry, with little interest in the world outside or ambitions of power or rule. The other thing to bear in mind is that Melkor and his cohort sang a discordant theme into the music that shaped Arda and everything in it, therefore this corruption is in all things created by the music so it was inevitable that something that embodied this corruption could not be resisted by any being made of the music. On top of this Frodo had been stabbed with a Nazgul blade that leaked further corruption into his body. So did Frodo fail? no despite almost guaranteed failure he resisted the inevitable long enough to put the ring in a position where it could be destroyed. A feat possibly no other being in Arda could have achieved, even Gods or Angels.
This mission really needed several Hobbits taking turns carrying the One Ring. Had Frodo not been carrying it the entire way his being would have been substantially less corrupted.
Frodo Said he'd give the ring to Galadriel, he's quest would fail right there had she not passed the test/temptation, also it was Frodo's pitty for Gollum that ended up saving him, that was inspired by the talk he has with Gandalf in Moria also thanks to Bilbo's actions in the Hobbit. Sam is the the strongest and most pure, a real friend.
How can an elf live a “mortal life”? In Arwen’s case, will she lose her pointy ears, elvish spells, foresight, etc etc? Will she be entirely one with the race of men? How can a half-elf, if he chooses to be an elf or be with elves, live an immortal life? How can one choose, in King Elrond’s case? If an elf didn’t go to the undying lands after the destruction of the ring in the middle earth, will he become mortal then? Kind of a dummy question but would appreciate answers. I’m new to this channel and have only watched the movies since it came out. Books are expensive from where iam. 😭
I know it’s late, but Arwen is half-elven like her father Elrond. Elrond and Elros - twin brothers and both half elven, had inherited this fate which started from Beren and Luthien - where Luthien, an elf, decides to join Beren, a mortal man and thus chooses to be mortal. Elrond chose to be an immortal elf while his twin brother Elros did the same as Arwen, choosing to be mortal. I honestly don’t really know much about the elf question or their physical features once they choose this fate - tho my best understanding is that all of the elves (or those who choose to be immortal and have not died in battle) will eventually sail west at some point. Some of them may be long after the 4th age while others would depart sooner. For example, Legolas went long after the beginning of the 4th age (and brought Gimli with him). If they decide not to depart after the Third Age they would stick around in places like Rivendell or Mirkwood before they leave.
This is exactly why Tolkien is such a gigantic figure of the Western literary tradition and his writings so important for our culture, much more that the narrow limits of the fantasy genre. A normal writer would have completed a book that is foundamentally about the eternal struggle between good and evil with the protagonist able to find the strenght to fulfill his quest and personally triumph over the enemy. Tolkien recognised the limits of human nature (hobbits are technically men and the closest race to them) and told us to accept the fact that for Frodo, like for anyone else in the same circumstances, that was basically an impossible task and we have no right to blame him for his "failure". He accepted the fallibility and weakness of the human (or hobbit) spirit and recognised the immense moral value of someone who did everything in his power to honour his promise to the point of breaking his body and mind in the task, among unbearable pain and suffering and without giving up to the universal values that in any age and culture represent the best of humanity: love, sacrifice, compassion and mercy. A wonderful message, that is stronger than the much more simplistic idea that heros can do and achieve everything, even what is beyond their human (or hobbit) limits. I love him for that.
I wonder if Elrond could have taken the one ring and completed the quest to destroy it. He seemed to be able to withstand it's influence when Isildur had it, and he commanded Isildur to throw it into the fire. Or would he have given in to the temptation that Gandalf and Galadriel said would happen to them if they tried to use the ring?
Elrond should have sucker punched isildur at that exact moment, taken the ring and tossed it in. Then help isildur back up , saying, sorry about that bud, but it had to be done. Cmon, let’s go get a drink 🥃
What if Frodo felt the presence of Gollum (after all the Ring gave him superhuman perception) and tempted him unconsciously, knowing Gollum´s greed for his precious? And made him a tool of salvation for the both of them (and - besides - many others)?
Does anyone know if they released the return of the king on VHS cause I can't find one for sale that's the extended edition By the way I prefer VHS because it's just easier for my eyes to look at
Eru has created both man and hobbit to be lesser beings. When Frodo failed, it’s actually the failure of Eru’s inability or unwillingness to empower his creatures with better qualities.
If Frodo and Sam had no betrayed Golum, would Golum have been able to stay loyal all the way to the lava pit or would Smegul have controlled him once again? I'd love a video on this with any evidence you can find, along with your personal opinion. Much love friend.
Hey Nick, I've actually covered this topic in my video on Whether Gollum could have been redeemed. However it's quite an old video so the actual quality isn't on par with my newer ones and I hope to remake it soon.
@@GeekZoneMT Gollum is definitely a tragic character, but I had no idea his ideology was so narrowly torn because of Sam. I havent read the LOTR books yet only the Hobbit, so alot of your videos are very insightful. Thanks for all your work mate :)
Feelings of guilt are not evil things to be avoided or overcome. When we sin or do something evil we should feel guilty because we are guilty. One is a heartless pathetic creature who does not feel guilt when he is guilty. Our guilt should lead us to repent and seek forgiveness from the One who can forgive, and that forgiveness will inspire us to get on with life and do better next time.
I saw a great explanation to that question can't remember the video tho, but I think Sauron would've seen them coming tho, to risky if Frodo or just the ring would fall of an eagle.
The Ring, and so Sauron, were the ultimate authors of their own fate. Yes, Frodo failed.... But everyone would have. There is no shame in that. Thankfully, "Evil" (greed, arrogance, destruction, etc) is ultimately, self defeating. So, "good" will win, if it can survive long enough. By living long enough for "Evil" to be its own undoing, Frodo succeeds, even in failure. That paradox, that, a kind of "survivor guilt" maybe, can only be resolved by sending Frodo to The West (maybe because JRRT had never encountered Cognitive Behavioral Therapy) Helluva story teller, that JRR guy......
Frodo failed but was it Sméagol that took the ring into the fires. Sméagol / Golam with his split personality was the only one to succeed. Golam stole the ring back but it was Sméagol that took it into the lava to save middle earth...
I believe that Frodo succeeded and failed. He failed to destroy the ring on his own free will. Sauron was right to think that nobody would have the capacity to destroy the ring willingly. He succeeded however, due to getting the ring to the crack of doom and when in the ring’s sway gollum attacked and bit the ring off his finger.
I think he failed. He failed epicly and monumentally. But as has already been pointed out, this isn't about his individual effort leading to success, this is about how "Providence" or likely God in Tolkien's world view, took small acts of kindness and mercy, especially by Bilbo and Frodo, and turned them into a communal victory. I have to imagine that this has a huge strain of truth to all who believe in the ultimate victory of good when all is said and done. As Gandalf said, 'Saruman thinks it's great power that holds back the shadow, but that is not what I've found, I find it's the small things, simple acts of kindness by everyday folk that keeps the darkness at bay' (paraphrased)
Hey guys, I’d like to say a few words regarding Christopher Tolkien’s recent passing, which is a tremendous loss for the Lord of the Rings community and the world of literature. Christopher Tolkien spent many years gathering his father’s notes, letters and stories and countless hours compiling them and thanks to his hard work we were able to experience The Silmarillion, the Unfinished Tales, The Children of Hurin, The story of Beren and Luthien, The Fall of Gondolin and the 12 Volume Histories of Middle-Earth. It’s very clear that without his work the world of Middle-Earth would have been a lot emptier and I can’t begin to express how sad I was to learn that he recently passed away. I just wanted to emphasis this message, because I feel that sometimes his contributions to his father’s works are significantly undervalued and it really shouldn’t be so.
Yes. What we have today from JRR is probably more attributed to the caretaking efforts of Christopher Tolkien than even JRR himself. He lived a long and fruitful life and you can't ask for more than that. Hopefully the grandson can be as productive and proactive to continue to further Christopher's painstaking work.
It’s sad indeed. He was the last legit source of lore
Yeah I agree
Yeah :(
I’m glad he was so dedicated tae expanding his father’s mythology in the way he did. He was a good man.
"Do not be too eager to deal out fail in judgement."
@Crystal Phoenix I know
I always see people say that Sam is the true hero of the story. But I say that both Frodo and Sam were equally deserving for their achievement in sending the ring in Mount Doom. I always saw that Sam was essential for physical strenght and moral support to get to their destination, where Frodo always represented the mental strength and high spirit. Sam would not had been able to stand against the ring's power and Frodo would not had made the end of the journey without his friend. Both of them are like half of what represent a strong person in body, mind, will and spirit but it takes their combined forces to achieve these characteristics.
Exactly. Great explanation!
Sam basically had the opposite effect of the ring on frodo
How does Frodo represent mental strength and high spirit when he succumbed to the ring and was sulking around for most of their journey?
@@W4TSKY Because there is not a character who wouldn't have succumbed to the ring. Sam would have probably fallen much faster, as it was mainly his loyalty to his friend and desire to support him that guided him through the journey, whereas Frodo gave his life to destroy a ring that would have been the immediate undoing of most in Middle Earth.
Yes, neither couldn't done it without the other.
To give Frodo credit his will power lasted more than most humans. Even the wizards and elves would not take the one ring to mount doom!
Agreed!
Yes many people over look that fact. Gandalf was a maiar and would not hold onto it for any length of time, he only held if to throw it into the fire then had Frodo pick it up. Galadriel was one of the most powerful elves left on middle Earth, to the point that SHE was the one who banished Sauron (necromancer) from mirkwood forest, yet she wouldn't even TOUCH the ring. Tells you something the Frodo a mere mortal hobbit could resist the ring longer than the most powerful IMMORTALS.
That's true
John Richardson - The rings of power were made to control the particular races of people: elves, dwarves, and men. There were no rings made to control hobbits so they were less affected by the one ring's corruption. This applies to Gollum as well as Frodo, but ultimately Frodo failed.
@JRPGFan20000 I agree. The relative immunity of corruption of hobbits and their lack of desire to dominate must have made them the most likely of candidates to be bearer - not forgetting, of course, their in-built courage and fortitude which still impressed Gandalf and Strider and all those who met them for the first time. In a way it's a shame Tom Bombadil couldn't have been persuaded to bear the ring. It had no power over him whatsoever but, perhaps that is precisely why he wouldn't have made a good ring-bearer. He would not have seen its importance and might have simply thrown it away or even given it to anyone who asked because, as he had no material needs or desire for power, he wouldn't have understood its ability to corrupt. If memory serves me right I think this was discussed at the council of Elrond and was dismissed for those reasons..
In my own opinion, Frodo was simply overpowered by the Ring in its last-ditch attempt to avoid destruction; a case can be made for what the Ring itself intended was to be claimed by Frodo, who would himself be overpowered by the Nazgul shortly afterwards when they arrived at Mt.Doom in response to Sauron's summons, thus returning it to its master from the brink.
Yeah and Tolkien himself states that the task assigned to him was impossible for him to complete
@@GeekZoneMT , I also believe that a case can be made for that either the Valar or Eru himself gave Gollum a tiny push to overbalance him; not having read the Letters, I'm fully aware this is pure conjecture on my part.
Phoggbanque I fully agree I mean put yourself in the ring’s position. Wouldn’t you be doing literally everything in your power to not be destroyed? I know I would be promising things I didn’t even have the power to deliver on in order to prevent my own destruction.
Something else noteworthy, is the unseen elements. The land of Mordor itself is a dark, overpowering, inhospitable, evil location - and inside Mt Doom, where the ring was created would be even darker still. In the place of the ring's creation, under the darkness of Sauron, the ring would have had greater strength. Even the most powerful and wise could not always have sight into the lands of Mordor, Gandalf even states that 'Frodo has passed beyond his sight', whether he means literally with his mind's eye, or mentally with Frodo's fall in a metaphorical sense. Really the only comparison we have had of another individual in the same situation as Frodo is Isildur, who obviously failed to destroy the ring and keep it for himself. Sauron's greatest strength was his will over others, so it makes perfect sense that is the ring's greatest strength too, being a part of Sauron. At the heart of Mt Doom, the ring's power was at it's strength.
Phoggbanque it's stated that the tripping of Gollum was the ONLY time ERU directly intervened in the mortal world during the third age. I believe he has only intervened 3 or so times in total during all the ages.
The Witch King wanted Frodo to become his mini-me... Admit it, it would have been kind of funny to see that.
Hobbit Wraiths 😖😖
@@GeekZoneMT This scene from Nacho Libre" comes to mind...
ua-cam.com/video/ME2mnzfCdug/v-deo.html
@@HezUhlive22 lol my sides i remember this movie
Would’ve looked like a jawa from Star Wars
It had to be done, and yet it was simply not possible for Frodo to do. All Frodo could do, was take it as far as he could before handing the torch to fate. He took it far enough.
Yeah, his heroism shouldn't be downplayed. In my opinion the fact that only he could get so far should increase it if anything.
Frodo did exactly what he needed to do, get the ring to mount doom, it was always Gollums fate to destroy it but Frodo was the only one who could get it to mount doom (well actually Sam would have made it if Frodo had died so let's not forget Sam, at least that's what I believe).
If you look at it the third ag was the age of the hobbits. If you take Gollum, Bilbo and Frodo the ring was held by hobbits for almost the entire age, no other race can claim ownership of the one Ring for that long without being corrupted completely (Gollum was corrupted but not completely) also they are the ones who destroyed it and saved the world. So for all the humans, dwarves, elves and valars strengths it was the smallest and weakest of them all that ended Sauron once and for all.
@@GeekZoneMT And he paid a very heavy price for doing so. Truly heroic.
I never thought about this. It makes Frodo's journey all the more desperate and tragic. I love him all the more for it and would like to believe that Tolkien's message is that a valiant attempt to do good until one's strength absolutely fails will be rewarded by a fateful intervention. That Frodo's salvation would come from a Halfling kinsman, no matter how corrupt, also seems beyond mere coincidence.
Thank you. Frodo’s sacrifice makes one love him!
I now realise that Sam’s devotion was not just about Sam’s goodness.Sam knew Frodo better than anyone and loved him because Frodo was such a person to deserve such devotion.
We have glimpses of this in other characters - Pippin and Merry of course but also Aragorn and Faramir.
Perhaps Gandalf, in his wisdom, made Sam go with Frodo as he knew Frodo would not have had the will to destroy the ring (as even Gandalf didn't trust his own will) and maybe Gandalf trusted Sam to finish the task....
Frodo distracted the ring and it almost killed him. There is nobility in that.
It was Sam who made the journey to Mordor and saved the world.
Gandalf had no idea how correct he was when he told Sam, “No, I have a better use for you...”
Good conclusion about opinion on the authors ideas/ideals. Definitely any opinion would only “muddle the issue”. Nice vid
Thank you, this is a very interesting-looking video and I cannot wait to finish it. Christopher Tolkien was amazing. God rest his soul. Rest in peace Christopher.
You're welcome Maureen :)
Such a great atmosphere in the video great job!
Thanks man!
Agree. The illustrations help. Not just all the good pictures of Frodo [and Sam and Gollum], but I really liked the Tolkien pic at about 0:32.
The brilliance of Tolkien’s work is that all this fits together like a wonderfully complex jigsaw
Bilbo’s partial corruption by the ring, spoke to the impossible task handed to Frodo
Whether or not he was ultimately successful in his task, isn’t really the point to the readers or, I imagine, JRR - it was the unbelievable courage and heroism of the two hobbits (Frodo and Sam) to actually get to Mount Doom. It was a truly last gasp strategy to have a fellowship travel all that way through Mordor with the ring and only the slimmest of hopes to have the ring destroyed.
Sam was the hero that helped and ultimately led a happy life once the conflict over.
The brilliance of Frodo is that he took it all that way and the corruption got him, and whilst Gollum eventually was the cause of the rings destruction, Frodo’s cross is that he failed at the last and this played on his mind as did the ‘stain’ of the corruption wrought on the ring bearer. His is the more tragic tale and the more sad (and in a way has echoes of Smeagle’s descent to madness through absence from the ring)
It really is a stunningly complex and beautifully constructed story
RIP Christopher
Before watching your answer, here's mine: No, he didn't fail. Frodo was chosen for his qualities, which include those that made two essential relationships possible. His empathy for Smeagol made him spare him, and this ultimately resulted in the presence of Gollum at Mt Doom, without which Frodo may indeed have kept the ring and delivered it to Sauron. Second, his brotherly sense of community, exemplified by his friendship with Samwise. Without Sam, he never would have made it to Mt. Doom, and I believe that even if you removed Gollum from the equation Sam may well have stopped Frodo in the end. But the point is that because he possessed these Hobbit-ish qualities, Frodo DID succeed. He just didn't succeed alone.
R.I.P Christopher Tolkien
I like the Irony that the Rings own efforts of evil and manipulation are also the reason for its destruction. it coincides with the real world philosophy that evil plants the seeds of its own undoing.
As the Professor had written it was not a failure. He gave everything and got the ring to Mt. Doom. Also The Professor writes of evil eventually destroys itself. Good did not defeat evil will always do something to destroy itself but just because Good does not necessarily defeat evil good acts are worthy in and of themselves. Also as you point out mercy plays a large portion in the fate of the ring. Both Bilbo and Frodo show mercy toward Gollum and in these acts of mercy the fate of the world is changed. Gollum through his own actions to get the ring for himself destroys it.
The true tragedy is that Frodo feels like a failure and he is so not a failure. Nobody could have done more to bring the ring to where its fate could be decided. Thanks for the video. A difficult subject well discussed. The greatness of the Professor's work is that there are no easy answers. Honest effort and the intention to do the right, but very hard thing is what matters in the end.
Insightful comments - thank you!
Hopefully Frodo found full healing over the sea.
This was a genuinely beautiful video. You address so many aspects (in all of your videos) with academic insight but also emotion, empathy and sincerity. I value your videos very much. Thank you.
Frodo played his part. And, he went far beyond any reasonable expectation for any individual. Far more powerful figures refused the burden because they knew that they would fail, and yet Frodo took the task on and walked the ring right up to the edge of the precipice. No one could ask more of any person. Frodo deserved his honors, as did the rest of the Hobbits.
Duan Scott 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
The Ring failed in its strategy and its quest. In order to get back to Sauron, it always caused discord between those who wanted to possess it. Thus, it was always likely to pass from weaker to stronger possessors, until it found someone strong enough to wield it. That person would then be noticed by Sauron, who would have the chance to win it back. But the Ring was unlucky. It found its way to Gollum, who kept it hidden for centuries; then to Bilbo, who was merciful enough to spare Gollum and strong enough (with Gandalf's help) to leave the Ring behind; then to Frodo, who also was merciful enough to spare Gollum and was strong enough to take the Ring to the one place where it could be destroyed. It finally overcame Frodo's resistance, but - as before - incited murderous envy in Gollum. So a desparate battle took place high above a lake of lava. In that one place where it was vulnerable, the Ring's strength worked against it.
So the story isn't about Frodo trying and failing. It's about evil ultimately being self-defeating, when good people do their utmost.
As a new subscriber, I'm very impressed with the amount of work, cross referencing and compilation of middle earth facts you have accomplished. I have read The Lord of Rings trilogy and before that Bilbo's story but not all the other background material that is available. So thanks for all your hard work.
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Another great video. Lore, opinion and a lot of heart. It is always appreciated.
Cheers Andrew, I'm glad you enjoyed it my friend!
Nice to have you back geek Zone
Depends on how you define failed. As a whole he failed because he succumbed to the Ring. He succeeded by bringing it all the way to Mt Doom where Gollum fell with it thus destroying it.
Insightful stuff, thank you.
You're welcome my friend!
I do not think he morally failed because of his pity and mercy shown for Golem. If he would have had contempt and hatred like most did towards Golem then he would have been a failure at his quest. His compassion made him rise above the evil of his world and that would eventually be the weapon to destroy it.
Super great video!!!
Sam would have died for Frodo. Gandalf knew this, and I think deep down he hoped Sam would be the one to encourage Frodo to give the ring up if in the end, Frodo gave in like Isildur did. Sam would do anything to save Frodo from harm, and if that meant follow him into Mt. Doom and possibly die, then that's what he would do. However...Gollum was the last piece to the puzzle. Without Gollum, the ring would have survived. And this only happened because of Frodo. While Sam saw through Gollum, it was Frodo's understanding of Smeagol's suffering that never allowed Gollum to be killed. While it frustrates us to see how he trusts in Gollum so easily, we have to remember that it is this small hope that keeps them going. Hoping that Gollum could possibly be saved, made him a fool- but that hope ultimately saved the world. I think Sam was needed for the journey, but it was Frodo's inner strength and heart that saved Gollum, and only Frodo's struggle with Gollum could have lled to the destruction of the ring.
Brilliant put. Thanks! I am tired of always feeling that Frodo’s qualities are overlooked.
Only complaint is the video is too short! 😂 love your work! Love your videos! I’m hoping for another video next week!!!
There are so many layers and complexities to Tolkien's work that you really need to read up on his scholarly work and private letters to truly understand LOTR. Because there are REALLY good reasons and reasoning behind similarly trivial or odd design choices he made about everything in LOTR. Maybe more revealing than anything, Tolkien's deep faith really shaped the metaphysics and other deep aspects of LOTR.
The point about Gollum
is fascinating. Thanks for this video.
Very nice video, once again!
4:07 the reason he safet gollem, is because he saw a future self. They are both ring barrels. Frodo though if he could safe him, someone could safe him(frodo) in the future
Was very glad to see this video. It really is an important part of the story that needs to be told more often I think. It really was a beautiful thing that Tolkien put in his story, profoundly sad, but also incredibly beautiful because it shows that evil can overcome us but out actions have significant after effects that we may not see until foresight.
The ring was designed to prevent its own destruction. It was literally infused with Sauron's will. It would never permit anyone to throw it into the fire that would destroy it. Certainly no human, hobbit or dwarf could overcome its will. Galadriel and Gandalf wouldn't even take it when they were a very long distance from Mt. Doom, which suggests that if they were at Mt. Doom they couldn't have thrown it in either. Nobody but a Valar could have thrown it in.
Great video, actually never thought about it.
Excellent analysis.
Frodo succeeded a win is a win doesn't matter if it was a technical win or a DQ it's still a win no matter how thin.
@hasan veysel erol no u
@hasan veysel erol victory!
Frodo did the job, however it was Sam who legit carried this mission without a doubt. So they both had their parts to play. They both sacrificed so much.
hey please make a video on Aragorn and War of Wrath. Because of you, I got so hooked up with the Lotr lore
Thank you so much. I watched this video so many times not only because of Frodo, but more to listen to your commentary. If only our priest was as clear as you when he talked of mercy and salvation. Blessings.
A pity he considered himself a failure.
I suspect it’s like victims of abuse. Taking the blame is a grievous part of the package.
Poor Frodo
Quality video! Frodo was such a great person.
I would say yes.
However, Frodo was weakened by his mission and all the challenges put forth before them.
Gollum and Frodo we’re intertwined and each had parts of completing the mission.
Great video!
Frodo absolutely failed at the end because of Sauron’s malevolence.
Only Gollum’s greed destroyed the One Ring in the end.
Tolkien was a genius and understood human nature so well.
Thanks for this vid Carl.
The interesting thought to me is if Gollum wasn't there would Sam have been able to push Frodo into the lava where Elrond failed with Isildur?
The answer is no because that would require making an effort to intentionally destroying the ring
That's really an interesting argument. Wow.
Great video. But it seems to me that there is at least one living being that would have been able to both resist the lure of the ring and resist the one ring in it's final moment: Tom Bombadil. Of course, we all know there are other reasons why he would never have made it anywhere near as far as Frodo; I'm only talking about the two criteria mentioned.
True though I feel that there's no chance that he would have accepted to undertake the quest and during the council of elrond I believe they mentioned that he would be careless with the ring for he wouldn't appreciate its significance
Does that mean Boromir was a failure because he broke his oath by trying to take the ring? He came to the end of his ability to withstand the power of the One Ring yet when he came back to his senses, he gave every last bit of life in him to defend Merry and Pippin and ultimately swore allegiance to Aragorn, the True King. My opinion is that Boromir initially failed but in the end redeemed himself. It's what you do with what you have and not your lack that is the measurement of success or failure. Maybe Frodo wished he had more in him that would have allowed him to not be overpowered by the Ring but that is ego. That would have ruined the whole story. Ego and strength doesn't save MiddleEarth. Friendship, perseverance though suffering, love and sacrifice did.
Just like Ilsildure the ring overpowered Frodo just before casting the ring into the fires of Mount Doom. I agree that Frodo failed in the literal sense but yes this was a task made to fail and that even though Frodo was choosing to keep the ring I feel like a lot of people overlook Sam in this situation. We see through the whole movie how Sam sticks with Frodo and the task at hand no matter what came up in their path and at the final end we see that Sam is unwilling to see his friend be turned due to the power that this ring has and therefore does his part in helping destroy the ring but at the same time rescue his friend. We also see that the ring could have overtaken Frodo at any point along the journey yet it didn’t and therefore it was largely a success with the fact that they made into Mordor and the edge of the fires of Mt. Doom. Without Sam I personally do not believe Frodo would have made it that way without Sam by his side.
That’s true but Sam would not have stopped Frodo at the end. Frodo had been completely corrupted by that point and went invisible. We knew Sam just didn’t have it in him to hurt Frodo at any cost so without Gollum intervention then Sauron would have won.
You know, he is no longer in middle earth. It might take him three films but he will come and destroy your ring!
“The wound never fully healed Sam” 😔
Samwise Gamgee deserves just as much credit. The Quest broke poor Frodo and it was the rock solid support of Samwise that kept him going. Stabbed with a Mogul blade, stung by Shelob, Gollum bit off his ring finger, its a miracle they even made it to Mount Doom at all. But they did, the Ring was destroyed and they survived to return home.
The way I see it, the compassion that Frodo showed towards Gollum bought him the results seen in the end game. Frodo’s story represents what we as humans can do to fight limitless evil, as very limited beings. Frodo’s compassion allowed the set of events to unfold where Sauron's evil and corruption ended up consuming itself.
Ah yes, 'From Past to Present' I hear. I see you are a man of culture, nice touch.
Thanks brother! Respect to the Obi-wan name ;)
@@GeekZoneMT yeah my name used to be 'Chris Bryson'' if you recognize me
Oh yeah for sure! I'm glad to see you're still here mate!
@@GeekZoneMT Always my friend.
I always thought this. Gollum is the real hero of the book. He is an anti-hero or a tragic hero. That's why his character is so alluring, because deep down you feel for him.
Lesson: when you feel like ur up against a losing battle, u can only lose if u give up
Does anyone know what the first song in the background is?
As Gandalf tells Frodo in FOTR, "For even the very wise cannot see all ends."
As Prof. Ransom tells Merlin in That Hideous Strength, "And so the wicked man had brought about, even as Judas brought about, the thing he least intended."
As William Cowper writes in his hymn,
"God moves in a mysterious way,
His wonders to perform;
He plants his footsteps in the sea,
And rides upon the storm.
"Deep in unfathomable mines
Of never failing skill;
He treasures up his bright designs,
And works His sovereign will.
"Ye fearful saints fresh courage take,
The clouds ye so much dread
Are big with mercy, and shall break
In blessings on your head.
"Judge not the Lord by feeble sense,
But trust him for his grace;
Behind a frowning providence,
He hides a smiling face.
"His purposes will ripen fast,
Unfolding ev'ry hour;
The bud may have a bitter taste,
But sweet will be the flow'r.
"Blind unbelief is sure to err,
And scan his work in vain;
God is his own interpreter,
And he will make it plain."
He knew he couldn't destroy it BUT he brought the ring to where it could be destroyed. Which in itself was a great deed.
Kind of like Rocky ... first movie....he knew he couldn't win the fight so went for the distance...something very difficult but he was capable of doing.
In a complicated, deadly, impossible situation the definition of "success" and "failure" is complicated, too. I would say that Frodo gave what he could, and in the process gave up his life in Middle-earth. How could anyone judge him? Success? Failure? We need other terms to analyze what was lost and what was gained. And in the end, Frodo was given peace.
I really hope he found peace.
The other hobbits are able to go back to a fairly normal life, but not Frodo - his were unique wounds which could not be healed in this world.
Part of Frodo’s burden was that his struggles were not understood - and that continues on this thread.
I think we often do not recognise the great heroes like Frodo because their heroism results in them being broken.
I declare this video to be better that 88% of what most religions teach! ❤️
That said, even with this in mind, I do still like the movie a bit more where Frodo pushed Gollum in as opposed to G just slipping. It still adds for some much needed redemption for Frodo, but still works (in way even more) as it was, in a way, the ring destroying itself through its corruption of Gollum and Frodo
Wow I’ve never been so early
Hope it was worth it ;)
The power of the ring was to bend the will of other living creatures to your own. After gollum attempted to take the ring earlier frodo's had used the ring. He told gollum "the next Time you try to take the ring you will throw yourself into the fires of mount doom!" Gollum did just that. Frodo's also saved gollums life on many occasions by saying he had a "role to play". So it turned out that was the way the ring was destroyed.
I'd agree, arguing for a moral capacity theory--any mortal was always going to fail, and of those who wouldn't ever fail, they would be poor managers of the ring's evil as with Tom Bombadil. That makes it a matter for a common prone-ness to failure and the need for a sort of transcendence. We can imagine Frodo feeling empty from having been riven against his final will from what would have been his autocracy over the entire world. And in this sense none can be trusted with absolute power, hence requirement of a common moral understanding of a common transcendent intercessor, someone Frodo perhaps seems to others similar to, a messianic paragon. But to himself and those who know better even the good Frodo cannot personify this ideal, nor Sam or Gandalf or anyone mortal.
Personally I can't see how it could be argued Frodo failed in his mission. From everything I know of the lore there was only one being in Middle Earth that could resist the ring and that was Tom Bombadil in fact in all of Arda it is likely only the Valar would have been able to resist the ring, but I base this only on the premise that Sauron was possibly the most powerful of all Maiar in Arda, just as Melkor was pre-eminent amongst the Valar. This explains why only the Valar would be able to resist the ring where everyone else failed. Only their will amongst all the beings of Arda was greater than Saurons. Of course maybe that's not how the ring works, as it seems it works by amplifying your desires, as both Galadriel and Gandalf said, they would both set out to use it for good and become more terrible than Frodo could imagine. Maybe that's why hobbits have higher resistance to the ring than most, because they don't really have grand desires, they just wish to stay in the Shire, eat drink and be merry, with little interest in the world outside or ambitions of power or rule.
The other thing to bear in mind is that Melkor and his cohort sang a discordant theme into the music that shaped Arda and everything in it, therefore this corruption is in all things created by the music so it was inevitable that something that embodied this corruption could not be resisted by any being made of the music. On top of this Frodo had been stabbed with a Nazgul blade that leaked further corruption into his body. So did Frodo fail? no despite almost guaranteed failure he resisted the inevitable long enough to put the ring in a position where it could be destroyed. A feat possibly no other being in Arda could have achieved, even Gods or Angels.
This mission really needed several Hobbits taking turns carrying the One Ring. Had Frodo not been carrying it the entire way his being would have been substantially less corrupted.
Frodo Said he'd give the ring to Galadriel, he's quest would fail right there had she not passed the test/temptation, also it was Frodo's pitty for Gollum that ended up saving him, that was inspired by the talk he has with Gandalf in Moria also thanks to Bilbo's actions in the Hobbit. Sam is the the strongest and most pure, a real friend.
What if Bilbo killed Gollum instead of sparing him?
How can an elf live a “mortal life”? In Arwen’s case, will she lose her pointy ears, elvish spells, foresight, etc etc? Will she be entirely one with the race of men? How can a half-elf, if he chooses to be an elf or be with elves, live an immortal life? How can one choose, in King Elrond’s case?
If an elf didn’t go to the undying lands after the destruction of the ring in the middle earth, will he become mortal then?
Kind of a dummy question but would appreciate answers. I’m new to this channel and have only watched the movies since it came out. Books are expensive from where iam. 😭
I know it’s late, but Arwen is half-elven like her father Elrond. Elrond and Elros - twin brothers and both half elven, had inherited this fate which started from Beren and Luthien - where Luthien, an elf, decides to join Beren, a mortal man and thus chooses to be mortal. Elrond chose to be an immortal elf while his twin brother Elros did the same as Arwen, choosing to be mortal.
I honestly don’t really know much about the elf question or their physical features once they choose this fate - tho my best understanding is that all of the elves (or those who choose to be immortal and have not died in battle) will eventually sail west at some point. Some of them may be long after the 4th age while others would depart sooner. For example, Legolas went long after the beginning of the 4th age (and brought Gimli with him). If they decide not to depart after the Third Age they would stick around in places like Rivendell or Mirkwood before they leave.
Sam wouldn't have made it beyond Bree without Frodo.
No level up to Frodo :)
This is exactly why Tolkien is such a gigantic figure of the Western literary tradition and his writings so important for our culture, much more that the narrow limits of the fantasy genre. A normal writer would have completed a book that is foundamentally about the eternal struggle between good and evil with the protagonist able to find the strenght to fulfill his quest and personally triumph over the enemy. Tolkien recognised the limits of human nature (hobbits are technically men and the closest race to them) and told us to accept the fact that for Frodo, like for anyone else in the same circumstances, that was basically an impossible task and we have no right to blame him for his "failure". He accepted the fallibility and weakness of the human (or hobbit) spirit and recognised the immense moral value of someone who did everything in his power to honour his promise to the point of breaking his body and mind in the task, among unbearable pain and suffering and without giving up to the universal values that in any age and culture represent the best of humanity: love, sacrifice, compassion and mercy. A wonderful message, that is stronger than the much more simplistic idea that heros can do and achieve everything, even what is beyond their human (or hobbit) limits. I love him for that.
Yes, he did fail. But he is the only one that would have been able to bring it as far as he did.
I wonder if Elrond could have taken the one ring and completed the quest to destroy it. He seemed to be able to withstand it's influence when Isildur had it, and he commanded Isildur to throw it into the fire. Or would he have given in to the temptation that Gandalf and Galadriel said would happen to them if they tried to use the ring?
Elrond should have sucker punched isildur at that exact moment, taken the ring and tossed it in. Then help isildur back up , saying, sorry about that bud, but it had to be done. Cmon, let’s go get a drink 🥃
@@mattthompson8671 Brilliant!! Yeah that would have been awesome, but it would have made a very short movie, lol.
What would have happened if De'agol had won the hand to hand battle in the first battle for the one ring?
What if Frodo felt the presence of Gollum (after all the Ring gave him superhuman perception) and tempted him unconsciously, knowing Gollum´s greed for his precious? And made him a tool of salvation for the both of them (and - besides - many others)?
Does anyone know if they released the return of the king on VHS cause I can't find one for sale that's the extended edition
By the way I prefer VHS because it's just easier for my eyes to look at
It seems so. There are videos on youtube with Vhs versions. But idk if they sell it still.
@@erathor9120 hmm
oh come on give the poor guy a break!
Even if Frodo failed, his successor would learn from his mistakes.
Eru has created both man and hobbit to be lesser beings. When Frodo failed, it’s actually the failure of Eru’s inability or unwillingness to empower his creatures with better qualities.
If Frodo and Sam had no betrayed Golum, would Golum have been able to stay loyal all the way to the lava pit or would Smegul have controlled him once again? I'd love a video on this with any evidence you can find, along with your personal opinion. Much love friend.
Hey Nick, I've actually covered this topic in my video on Whether Gollum could have been redeemed. However it's quite an old video so the actual quality isn't on par with my newer ones and I hope to remake it soon.
oh okay, ill have to give it a look then. ive been around for a while but I must've missed it. Cheers for the speedy response
No probs Nick! :)
@@GeekZoneMT Gollum is definitely a tragic character, but I had no idea his ideology was so narrowly torn because of Sam. I havent read the LOTR books yet only the Hobbit, so alot of your videos are very insightful. Thanks for all your work mate :)
"Ought implies can." If it is not possible for Frodo to let go of the ring then failing to do so is not a moral failure.
Frodo succeeded, because he knew that he couldn’t destroy the ring on his own, which is why he had companions to help him.
I think he ultimately failed, but it still sorted itself out anyway when Gollum fell in the lava with the ring.
Yeah though it's interesting to know that there was no being alive that could have gotten as far as he did while possessing the ring
Even the smallest can change the course of history
251 streak nice one!:)
The Eagle could have flown them to the mountain. And be done with it. The whole fellowship could have been dropped off to help him.
Feelings of guilt are not evil things to be avoided or overcome. When we sin or do something evil we should feel guilty because we are guilty. One is a heartless pathetic creature who does not feel guilt when he is guilty. Our guilt should lead us to repent and seek forgiveness from the One who can forgive, and that forgiveness will inspire us to get on with life and do better next time.
Didn't isildur also reach the same spot? (According to the movie adaptation)
Love the hollow knight music
My question has always been why didn’t the eagles fly the ring to the crack of doom?
I saw a great explanation to that question can't remember the video tho, but I think Sauron would've seen them coming tho, to risky if Frodo or just the ring would fall of an eagle.
the one dislike is Gollum
RIP Christopher Tolkien .... You will be sadly missed.
The Ring, and so Sauron, were the ultimate authors of their own fate.
Yes, Frodo failed.... But everyone would have. There is no shame in that.
Thankfully, "Evil" (greed, arrogance, destruction, etc) is ultimately, self defeating. So, "good" will win, if it can survive long enough. By living long enough for "Evil" to be its own undoing, Frodo succeeds, even in failure. That paradox, that, a kind of "survivor guilt" maybe, can only be resolved by sending Frodo to The West (maybe because JRRT had never encountered Cognitive Behavioral Therapy)
Helluva story teller, that JRR guy......
Frodo failed but was it Sméagol that took the ring into the fires. Sméagol / Golam with his split personality was the only one to succeed. Golam stole the ring back but it was Sméagol that took it into the lava to save middle earth...
I believe that Frodo succeeded and failed. He failed to destroy the ring on his own free will. Sauron was right to think that nobody would have the capacity to destroy the ring willingly. He succeeded however, due to getting the ring to the crack of doom and when in the ring’s sway gollum attacked and bit the ring off his finger.
I think he failed. He failed epicly and monumentally. But as has already been pointed out, this isn't about his individual effort leading to success, this is about how "Providence" or likely God in Tolkien's world view, took small acts of kindness and mercy, especially by Bilbo and Frodo, and turned them into a communal victory. I have to imagine that this has a huge strain of truth to all who believe in the ultimate victory of good when all is said and done. As Gandalf said, 'Saruman thinks it's great power that holds back the shadow, but that is not what I've found, I find it's the small things, simple acts of kindness by everyday folk that keeps the darkness at bay' (paraphrased)
So what if Frodo had kept the ring?