“Teach them correct principles and let them govern themselves.” I miss the Church addressing these issues, but I feel like as we speed closer to the second coming, we are either elect and know how to do what is right, or we are not and are free to choose the lesser part.
I wholeheartedly agree. The sad part is knowing that friends and family are walking away over things that are not worth their time. I can only imagine the heartache Heavenly Father has knowing that so many have chosen Babylon.
I feel like this is a much bigger part of this. In many ways, the members of the Church have treated the Church as if it is the Law of Moses - need strict instructions on every issue. I've noticed it on a few issues, but moreso wiith the youth standards. The Strength of Youth used to define standards and give examples to make it clear. The Church released a new version and made it clear they were taking out the examples and expecting people to follow the Spirit. Almost immediately, I began hearing youth leaders (particularly sisters relating to the dress standards) talk about we don't have those kind of standards any more, as if the morality and modesty issues just disappeared. The reality is the standards have not really changed, but just how they're given and the detail. And any time someone mentions bare shoulders, midriff or shorts, the charge gets started. I see the same thing with music in Sacrament meeting. The handbook used to give some examples, such as brass instruments, not being really reverent enough for sacrament meeting. As a brass player, I fully understand and get it. It takes a high degree of skill and maturity for a brass musician to get a reasonably reverent performance. The last revision the Church took out the examples, but still requires the appropriateness of the music for the sacrament. Immediatelly, all the musicians began talking about "the ban" (on brass instruments) being lifted - there was never a ban, but a discussion of why they really aren't appropriate. And now people are going out of their way to essentially ignore the concept of reverence. We could go on. Caffeine is a perfect example. Forever it was talked about caffeine being incompatible with the WoW (it was not taught as the reason for tea and coffee being inapproprriate, but the nature and adictiveness made it incompatible). President Hinckley talked about it specifically in his interview on 60 minutes. Once he had passed away, the Church made it's statement about it not being in the WoW, and now I see more and more members essentially addicted to their energy drinks - people are actually bringing them to ward council. Are any of these big deals? Mabe not, but it's definitely an indication of our insistence on external rules to live by, and that without them, we drop them.
@@RichardChappell1 ouch I feel called out 😅 I was off soda for several months and then had a Dr pepper as a treat. Now I'm back to at least 1 a week. I know I should purge again.
The Lord is guiding church members to grow spiritually, much like a parent sending a teen off to college to learn independence. Leaders have been preparing us for this shift, and it seems like every Sunday talk has conference quotes saying “we won’t be able to survive the coming days without discerning by the power of the Holy Ghost.” Changes like at-home learning and shorter Sunday meetings encourage daily personal study. Now, we’re urged to attend the temple more frequently to learn from the Spirit and strengthen our spiritual discernment. It’s like the church is a young adult learning to navigate the world without constant guidance. If we’re in the “college” phase now, the next step is marriage-and we know what that means: the Bridegroom is coming soon!
"The true believer in Christ... understands the difference between ends and means and sees that some Church aids are, in a sense, scaffolding for the soul, which scaffolding one day will be removed- like waterwings or training wheels. -Neal A. Maxwell, BYU Speeches, "True Believers in Christ," October 7, 1980
This church has blessed my life in more ways than I can count in my 60+ years as a member. I trust my testimony and I trust the Lord. I dont spend much time questioning why the leaders do some of the things they do? I think they are walking a razor's edge right now trying to preach Christ and protecting the church from lawsuits and government influence. And being a worldwide church means considering many cultures and governments. It can not be an easy task navigating these issues while still maintaining our ecclesiastical identity. I try to live the commandments. I will continue to study the scriptures and do all those basic things to strengthen my faith. My faith compels me to trust the system even when I dont understand.
Boyd K Packer: “The study of the doctrines of the gospel will improve behavior quicker than a study of behavior will improve behavior. That is why we stress so forcefully the study of the doctrines of the gospel.”
@@markcavandish1295 the Brethren can teach social ills until they are blue in the face, but unless the people put on Christ entirely and be consecrated saints we are lost. Studying and applying the Gospel to our personal lives is turning our whole will over to God. Social winds are always changing, so no matter how much we study and prepare and prevent against them we will always be behind…. Putting the Doctrine of Christ first in our lives negates any desire for activism against the Church or against Christ, whose church it is.
@@charliegladwell1 that all makes sense, but why was the individual ails of the time harped on us so much as members in the 80’s 90’s where today we’re just supposed to assume?
@ I guess it comes down to why do you want the apostles to speak about specific social/geopolitical issues? What specific challenges would you like addressed? And further, what specifically have they not spoken about? I feel like they have spoken about everything over the last 30 years (I’m 47) we are facing currently. Every prophet has a quote against socialism and the need to protect liberty. President Kimball spoke on not voting for laws that force people to do good because it takes away agency. President Benson spoke ad nauseam against socialism. We have the Proclamation on the Family that is straight forward. We have the Word of Wisdom, which doesn’t mention Zyn pouches or Monster drinks, but it does if you read it. We have BYU, BYUI, BYUH, Ensign college speeches, we have young adult ‘face to face’ events (Bednar last month spoke on the dangers of AI). We have the scriptures replete and overflowing with social commentary from ancient times that mirrors our own. We have then Elder Nelson who spoke about the evils of Abortion. I do love this question and topic, but I think we have everything we need…we just don’t use the information and council and revelations we have. Am I missing something specific?
@charliegladwell1 Great questions! I believe with all my heart and mind that Our Savior Jesus Christ has and will always direct our church prophets, seers, revelators to focus on exactly what we need most at the time. We enjoy the blessing of the scriptures as our light to our salvation, growth, preservation and progression. The Holy Spirit attending our study will teach us all things necessary for our growth and salvation. ❤
I was raised Lutheran and left that church while at Luther College. I wanted to belong to an organization that had very clearly stated principles. I found that in 1975 when I joined the Church while living in Alaska. We received concise direction and clearly voiced leadership. We WERE seen as a Peculiar People. Since the Come Follow Me program has come for home and church study, I see two things which appear to oppose or almost oppose one another; the Teddy Bear Jesus and the clear warning that we personally must know and heed the voice of the Holy Ghost. As we do this, we are more dependent on the voice of the Lord and not so much the strictness present almost 50 years ago. We love our leaders but are clearly being taught that WE EACH must receive personal revelation and then act on it. I am trying to be clear, here- Perhaps it is me as I approach 80; I feel more stable and established in my testimony, understanding, and growing study of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Although l listen to and study Conference talks, I do not lean on them as much as find they reinforce choices I have made through repentance and my own personal progression. Am I making any sense???
@@marensvien4652 I believe they are making it so that we have a more personal relationship with Heavenly Father and are learning to receive revelation from him. It's been difficult for me personally but I am willing to learn
You make sense to me. That is where I am. I have been taught correct principles over and over and over and over. And yet I have often still failed to keep those basic principles. So as I refine my discipleship, and recommit to my covenants, I feel the responsibility upon my shoulders, to gain my own full testimony, and not rely on borrowed light. It is not easy. And I hope we can speak up more, and local levels, about correct doctrine.
With president Nelson and president Oaks, We don’t have to worry about the law being lost :-). But local leaders need to stick with what’s right and wrong. On another note, I believe we need to hear more hopeful messages about Christ now, than ever. People are in despair, and many people feel hopeless. Some more uplifting messages have been given in response.
Jesus already told us to be "good global citizens". Not sure what you mean though? There is a distinct difference between what Jesus taught and what some corrupt people want as far as being "good global citizens" are. Just got to focus on what Jesus taught.
We have been taught, we have been warned, the second coming is near. What did President Nelson tell us we needed to have if we were to survive? Yes, I agree the test has started.
Honestly, I have to go back and listen to talks from the past if I really want to gain strength and support. Only the occasional talk addresses the massive elephants in the room we are dealing with in today's world. It is very disheartening.
I think President Nelson‘s talks only get better each time he addresses the church. They are prophetic and spot on with what the members need to be doing.
@ Sure, but he is often vague where specificity would be appreciated. They need to be using words and concepts we are all dealing with so there is no ambiguity on things. They should be hammering against the gender and rainbow nonsense more forcefully. Too much cultural ground has been ceded.
During 2019-2020, I was prompted to start studying the House of Israel, the Second Coming of Jesus Christ, and the church's role in both of those things. What I studied (and the events that have transpired since then) have only bolstered my testimony that God is leading this church through his servants, the Prophets. It seems to me that many faithful LDS are still stuck in the mode of only talking about the Second Coming as this kind of ominous blob that has yet to arrive. When President Nelson took the helm, he seriously started putting the church's money where its mouth is in actually acting like Jesus Christ's return is imminent. He's not the type that says "Christ could come any day now, we don't know when so be prepared just in case". He's the kind of prophet that is seeing the light at the end of the tunnel through the thick darkness, not just hinting that it's inevitably going to come. My point is that I dont think many members of the church are used to that way of acting and thinking, and so when something is done or said that seems contrary to the explicit mission of the church, we are confused because we cannot see around corners. It is my view that public decisions in the church (even some I might disagree with) are tactical ways to give its members more time to prepare before the world sees greater darkness and the final destruction. Sometimes it might be to "fly under the radar" of potentially hostile government entities. Sometimes it might be an act of prudence, to be "wise as serpents and innocent as doves". In any case, I highly recommend that any member of the church seriously study eveything they can about the Second Coming. Lots of untrue things are out there, but ask for the gift of discernmment. It may just surprise you when you understand how close we really are (and why the Q15 are so urgently bringing the message up now, more than ever).
Church talks and lessons feel empty and uninspiring. Especially the ones where we have to endure their resumes of life success. Someone mentioned how things seem weaker since Come Follow Me started. I agree. We try to teach the hard things at home but it doesn’t feel supported by the church. Like, our kids don’t go to church and hear that what their parents are teaching is true. Instead the church looks relaxed and standing for nothing but self esteem, and mom and dad look extreme. I asked my daughter if she learns about temple marriage in young women’s. She said never. My sister’s family became Greek Orthodox. Her husband was once a bishop! There is so much richness in their religion. I’m not going to leave the church, but I long for what church felt like in the 1980’s and what it seems like my sister’s family is experiencing now.
Greek Orthodox? Are they of Greek descent? That is very unusual, if not. My former in laws are Greek Orthodox so I was around that religion a lot over 25 years. I've never met non-Greeks (other than spouses of Greeks) in that religion. I wonder why they didn't go with general Eastern Orthodox, which is a very appealing religion for those who crave sacred symbols, structure, etc.
I will be the lone wolf here to defend CFM (the principle of it, not curriculum), I do CFM every week, with my sons, over the years between myself and my husband, we have found very little participation from families/individuals doing any form of rigorous scripture study. The idea behind CFM is awesome! I love it, I live it! whether that be CFM curriculum or custom made. People are lazy. Laziness is the dominant problem. Let's get people involved, then let's focus on the CFM curriculum.
I’m Greek went to the Greek church, my whole youth and the LDS church. I love the orthodox religion. The only thing they don’t have is the priesthood for temple ordinances but they got everything else and I think they’re fantastic.
@@stephaniewilliamson4611 The thing is, we were ALREADY supposed to be doing CFM before there was ever a CFM. We were told to study the scriptures as a family. That is what CFM is. Same with ministering. Visiting and home teaching were always supposed to be like they are now. But since no one was doing either of these things the way they were supposed to be they had to repackage it and call it something else to get it through people's thick skulls. Ministering doesn't not feel any different to me from Visiting teaching because I was already doing this. So really if people were doing daily/weekly scripture study with their kids, CFM shouldn't be a change to what they were doing.
@@danascully7358 thank you for reiterating my point, the dominant problem here is laziness. People don't want to be involved at any level. Hard to build a kingdom when people don't really want to be kingdom workers.
2 Timothy 4 came to mind Maybe our leaders have been commanded not to speak about these things because so many people are rejecting truth and turning away from God? 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
The Church has set the standard. It's time for parents and family to step up and start teaching correct principles in the home. We talk about these things all of the time in our home. Our children understand what we support as a family and what we do not support. One reason we don't discuss these things in church is because of all the people in the ward that get offended when you bring them up.
I think what is actually happening is a larger number, (including leadership) are becoming more sympathetic to certain worldly ideologies, and they don't want to rock the boat in an attempt to keep as many people on board. It seems the main concern of leadership is to not inadvertently disaffect a large portion of the members by taking a stance on divisive subjects one way or another.
@@sotl97 As a grandmother now, having grown up in the church and hearing all the HARDBALL MESSAGES delivered over the pulpit my whole life to help keep me on the covenant path I can somewhat agree with you on a few things. But.. there is an old saying, "It takes a village to raise a child". As children grow into teenagers they tend to TUNE OUT their parents to worldly distractions & peer pressure. It has always been a comfort to know the church was also delivering the same HARDBALL messages as the parent in the home to their primary classes, or by Sunday school teachers & mutual leaders. My grandchildren...now live in a more wicked world than I myself experienced and the safety net of their church leaders now NOT confirming or defining what the social pitfalls that will trap them in the mists of darkness is very distressing to me. My grandchildren need to hear the same HARDBALL MESSAGES drop from the pulpit & by their leaders. To give an example, I was a mutual leader in 2018. We were encouraged to get close and form close friendships with our girls so that if they didn't feel comfortable talking with parents at home they could come to us. As a leader I found out that a few girls were sexting with boys in their school classes. I was NOT allowed to chat about this situation with them...only to love them. Idk maybe it was just me...but I felt like total failure of leader not to warn these girls of the dangerous waters they were excitedly swimming in and how vulgar their behavior was becoming 😔
My personal opinion is that the Church has been on a PR tour as of late. They are trying not to offend anyone and to look more accepting of everyone. I believe it’s one of the reasons folks are leaving the Church in droves. It’s the born and bred members who are leaving. They feel betrayed.
My husband is a recent convert, and I'm a lifelong member. He is impressed on the family values and how Jesus is central in all things, however has major issues with the church not stepping in to correct or standup to issues of the day. He doesn't understand how our church has so many leaders, yet he has to wait until conference or by chance run into a video on social media to hear from them. It'd be nice to have clear answers, even if they are simply pointing to scripture or reiterating standards and values.
Thats funny taht he says that. I think quite often how they are EVERYWHERE. Church magazines, all over social media, the church's website, books, gen conference.
I'm sure as most of you have noticed, the Church leaders have moved away from having members "check boxes". I grew up at a time when all the young men goals were lists in the Boy Scouts and Priesthood that when completed, we got an award. That is gone. The youth, and the Church in general, is taught to seek the Spirit and make decisions by inspiration. It takes more effort, involvement and righteousness on a personal level. We are being taught to follow Christ through our own personal relationship with Him with the Church's help. If the Church leaders are always telling us how we should think, we're not necessarily developing that. When the Church members who follow Christ through the Spirit come to consensus on something, everyone else will be left behind.
I think check boxes helped a lot of people especially the youth. Not all of them are self motivated to do it all on their own. Our YM program has drifted aimlessly since removing those check boxes.
Do you mean checkboxes like 1) support the Church's efforts to overthrow the Federal Protection of the Famliy laws? or 2) Support the Church's push to make it illegal for residences or business to make decisions for themselves about how to deal with these issues without the government's involvement? or 3) You need to be vaxed to attend BYU Idaho. What do you think of these check boxes?
@@JeffTankerSr you don’t have to be vaxed to go to BYU-I. I served from there from 2018-2023 right through Covid and have kids going there now and they don’t require it and never did.
Do you have youth currently? the new youth program is so open ended it's doing nothing for more than a few youth. It's completely unstructured, a total pendulum swing from what came before. It went too far. And now an entire cohort has gone through it and I don't think they are nearly as prepared as previous generations.
Has anyone thought through the implications of being an international church. What could multiple other countries do if we look like we are promoting going against their governments. In the 90s we changed to a totally international entity
These are times when remembering that God is INFINITELY more powerful than any government is really important. I trust the presidency of the Church is led by God. He knows exactly how this all plays out, through the entire thing. We are just in the moment, which is scarier.
That explains well the flaccid nature of General Conference, and other international addresses, but it doesn't address the lack of boldness at the local level. Apostles and Seventies visit all over and could address the issues that confront saints in the different political and social environments in which they find themselves. Indeed, that is what it seems Paul did actively. We get constant double speak. A constant and relatively unchanging message from the Apostles, and then actions that are in opposition to the very thing they were preaching. Local leaders acting with impunity, making allowances, and promoting or permitting all manner of apostasy among their flock. It indicates that some of the Apostles have lost the reigns and perhaps some of the Seventies, who they have called, are turncoats and Gadiantons.
@@sarahaas183 Compared to Apostles from the 60s and 70s....yes, flaccid. Even Holland and Bednar, who are probably our boldest, don't prophesy about atomic holocausts and the path to salvation through conformity and rigid obedience to the commandments.
Wow Greg. It just feels like you read my mind. I am puzzled by this as well. I pray but I think with a church established in the earth with such a vast leadership structure and hierarchy shouldn’t I be allowed to ask the questions you are asking. I grew up with a completely different leadership and messaging on current social and wicked issues. Now I cannot get an answer. I will never be allowed to have access to or ask a question to the leadership. Local leaders cannot answer the question but just have faith. It is puzzling why the radio silence from the brethren. I would appreciate a message addressing this and simply to say they will no longer address current issues because of XYZ.
The answer is Revelation 13:4-7. He(the beast) is given power over the saints. The beast from the sea is the legal system that runs the world today.(Maritime law, or corporate law.) as opposed to common law or constitutional law. You have to be familiar with the articles of faith.(it’s like the churches code of conduct.) states that our purpose is to preach faith, repentance, and baptism and gift to the Holy Ghost and that we believe in being “subject.” so if the church spoke against the beast or against the bad rules that it’s given, it would lose its ability to preach the gospel and to build temples, which are the two directives that the woman has prior to the wedding feast. The woman the church cannot save itself. That is why the groom the savior comes! not understanding this is the catalyst for the division between the wheat and the tares! And only the Saints who buy revelation refused to adopt the laws of the beast or the jab so to speak (that was a test). Will begin to be truly persecuted, and that brings the great destruction which frees us from the laws (subjection) of men (the beast)
Very well said. This is the elephant in the room. President Hinckley wrote the book Standing for Something. Not happening… And our youth are the most vulnerable.
@@KippChurch-z1d I don't think they are scared at all. They know so much more than you and I. We need to have so much more faith that God is in charge and what we hear from conference is what needs to be said. I don't always understand why things are the way they are, but I know P. Nelson sees way more than he can share. Be thankful you don't have the weight of the world on your shoulders
Fornicating is very much a given in the world and no doubt amongst so many LDS folk who exit the Church in their teens. Hearing leaders ever speak out about this nowadays, or even start disciplinary counsels to try and win back so many youth would no doubt not be received well inside and out of the Church, and as always, the lame stream legacy media would no doubt have a field day!!
Im a converted. I don't like what I'm seeing at the church. The message of Jesus and God is weakening. The members are afraid to talk. I don't feel I belong anymore. Thanks for posting this, you're not alone.
Me too, but I’m hanging in there. The BoM is true scripture. The Lord only has imperfect men to run his church. The corporate sector of the church has way too much influence. IMO My missionary kids (I had 7) fill their missions and now grandkids were harassed to get vaxxed. Some fell to the pressure and have regrets What happened to free agency. Know who you are and where you stand. Learn and grow in faith.
Then you will sift yourself out. Either the church is true or it's not. If you don't have a testimony about the authority of this church from God through His Priesthood then go down the road and find a different church, what's the difference? But I stay because I have done the spiritual work. I know this church is the only true church with the priesthood authority of God that seals me to Him exactly like in the book of Revelation. So you need to discern WHY you are a member. Is it a social club or is it the only true church on earth?
I always thought the church did explain its new direction, starting with the raising of the bar. I've viewed it as we had training wheels with all the previous instructions and manuals, and slowly the church has been pushing us to learn how to take control of our own salvation and our families. It's been slowly removing the boundries that locked us in place and we were to take what we learned and go. We have our phones, computers, and free access to the church literature. We can search, ponder, and pray about everything. It is all at our fingertips. The church has been preparing the members what to do and now wants us to go and do. As long as we have religious freedom we can be free to go and do.
All through the BOM the prophets are not only telling and warning the righteous people about the mistakes society is making but they are also going out and directly telling the people making the wrong choices that they are making bad choices and the consequences those choices will bring. Noah, Lehi, Nephi, Alma, Mormon, Moroni, Samuel the Lamenite, Ether, and all the others directly spoke to society about the mistakes they were making and the consequences of those mistakes. That’s why most of them were cast out. I can’t imagine that the responsibility has changed in our day which is frustrating at times to see that’s there’s not more direct counsel given.
You answered yourself. They were cast out or worse.... 🤷♀️ So it makes complete sense God is the One holding them back. God is saying it's not time yet. Have you not heard President Nelson talk about time is running out? A shift is coming. People think it's the Second Coming but I'm not so sure.
@ all the ancient prophets knew the consequences of preaching but Heavenly Father still had them do it and protected some as they did. I have no problem with the church or our Prophets, they are great and share great wisdom, counsel and revelation! It’s just hard sometimes when we are standing against a whirlwind of societal issues and it feels like we are kinda on our own sometimes with some of the things not being said by leaders.
@mattbitter4432 dig deeper. Ask God. Follow what President Nelson has said. Do the WORK! We are not anchorless! We have been given everything we need. Utilize it!
@ oh I know where I stand on these issues, that’s not a problem, the frustration is there any backup to point to when I’m teaching and talking to people about these big issues in society or they come up in EQ/RS. How do local leaders stand against some of these issues if there isn’t good solid backup?
Agreed! I myself have been baffled by the Church's softball approach on subjects that are literally tearing our families apart. My youth in the church was very different with clear messages of warnings to keep me on the covenant path. I still remember the old saying "It takes a village to raise a child". Parents could count on primary & Sunday school & mutual to help deliver the same hardball ...not softball ...warning messages when the children became teenagers and began to tune out on their parents or family home evenings. Thank you so much for addressing this. I've been made to feel like a decentor for asking these questions and it hurts 😢.
My Dad and I have thought for years it is the tax status threat from the federal government that has to be suppressing the issue-specific alarms and warnings. Thanks for using your platform to discuss. Please stay on this.
If the church isn't addressing these issues because of the chance of losing tax exempt status, then Shame On The Church. $$ is not worth not leading....I'm not going inactive, but i need to see our leaders stand for The Savior and His teachings....Yes they are wanting us to be able to "stand on our own", but showing that "they" are following/teaching Christ would be a good beginning. I admire some of tlhe churches my non-member family (nieces/nephews) attend that are not afraid of the government, or anyone else.
I agree. I live in the US South. There are many sects that seem to be following God's will more than us because they are standing for righteousness in the face of the very destruction of the family. I don't think our smiles and shunning of tea will impress people who correctly see that Satan is destroying the family.
Go there then. But can they seal you by the Priesthood of God? They cannot. You must decide if you want a social club and a church that fits your bias or you want the true and living Christ with a two edged sword of truth? I want the Truth. And the truth is, God loves and calls for all His children. Those with eyes to see and ears to hear will understand what is happening. Read, pray, ask God. He will tell you.
Not only losing its tax exempt status but potentially being "De-Banked" if they dont conform to the liberal left. Many rich conservative business owners have been de-banked, look it up.
I'm not sure that is true by any means. We are a worldwide church and our call is to preach the gospel. We are to love others and serve as Christ did. We would not be fulfilling our calling if we didn't open our hearts to others. We may not agree with what the Brethren are doing, but we also don't receive revelation for the church or the world. We are responsible for our personal actions and our relationship with Christ.
I often find myself longing for bold clarity on the issues of today. In the church we often state that "the family is under attack," but we rarely go into detail on exactly HOW it is being attacked. I guess such a discussion would probably offend too many people. Though the radio silence, vagueness, and obscurity on many of the social issues of today frustrates me, I think the wheat and the tares are simply being allowed to grow together before the harvest. The reckoning will come, and probably sooner than later in my opinion. "Behold, vengeance cometh speedily... and upon my house shall it begin, and from my house shall it go forth, saith the Lord" D&C 112: 24-25
If we study scripture, and listen to the words of the prophets echo throughout the past two centuries, it should not, and is not confusing. But I can understand what you are saying. Maybe, especially for the youth, some clarifications need to be made. But I also know there are reasons why the prophers are speaking more and more in parables, over the pulpit. For those with eyes to see and ears to hear, you can hear what Elder Bednar and others are saying, quite clearly and boldly.
But we shouldn't need to be told. We are supposed to receive personal revelation ourselves and rely on the Spirit in our lives to guide us. We should depend on that instead of the brethren for everything. Go to my comments, I explain more.
@@agldlfeYes, personal revelation is definitely important. We shouldn’t have to be commanded in ALL things. That being said, the Brethren are there warn and to receive revelation in certain matters related to salvation and the regulation of the church. It is really hard to see so many members, including those in leadership and the church education system, walking in complete confusion on what you think would be basic gospel doctrines. I don’t feel like it’s my job to call them out. If no one does though the confusion will just continue to spread. This trajectory is unsustainable. As alluded to previously, I’d wager that a major division or schism is forthcoming.
“Silence in the face of evil is itself evil: God will not hold us guiltless!” Makes me think of these word's. I have been confused for year's on why the wokeness at BYU has been allowed and continues, why a major housecleaning has not taken place. Sad..
I have been very curious about that as well. The gay young man who gave the commencement speech is the son of a couple in my ward. The father was very torn on how to handle that. He loves his son deeply but doesn't like what he's doing and it has gotten far worse since then.
This is exactly the same subject that was discussed at my family’s Thanksgiving. This was perfect to articulate my frustration with the Church that my family just wasn’t getting. It was frustrating and is.
@ wow! Really? Kind of judgmental and jerky!! Nothing of intelligence to add except but call someone as low IQ? Yep, sounds like the basement is getting tiring for you huh?
The explanation of the Bretheren trying to get us to be more spiritually independent baffles me. A huge selling point for our church has always been modern revelation through priesthood-bearing leaders to steer us through the unique challenges of the present day, and boy, do we need it now.
I totally agree. We are supposed to tell converts "join our Church. Because then you can receive guidance for youself. And, just so you know, 1/3 of our ward received a different guidance than I did?"
I see it a little different. To me it's the end of the 20 years of silence. My opinion is The Proclamation to the World: The Family was a marker for the beginning of the end, the final warning. President Nelson has given us exactly what we need from his first Sunday as the President and head prophet. There is no more hand holding as we were told exactly what to do in April 2018.
Yes, the “more spiritually independent” argument is pure cope. Either we’re truly sliding leftward or we’re too afraid to clearly speak truth. I’m not sure which is worse.
I have felt like time truly is running out, and with what little time they have to say what they need to say, they are saying exactly what they are supposed to tell us, right now. We are no longer in the 80s and 90s. We are in the last hour. I can feel it in my bones. We need to already be doing the things that we are supposed to be doing, so that we can be prepared for what’s next. I feel the responsibility on my shoulders, to do “come, follow me“ at home. And make sure I’m teaching the gospel to my kids. I often fail or act like I don’t have time. And I must repent of that. Because I know That somethings shifted in 2020, and the gospel needs to be enforced in the home whenever and wherever possible. It is not easy. The adversary makes us feel as if we don’t have time or energy for it. Every day.
Ive read a lot of the comments. I agree with many. The people in the church Im so concerned with, are the youth and young adults. I don’t think they are established enough to seek out correct answers. Im sure a few may, but very few. They are the ones that need help with the social questions. I feel they are lost and need guidance. The world is shouting at them so loud, they cant hear much else. For their sake I wish more social topics were stated from the pulpit. Just my own opinion.
It wouldn't be so bad if there wasn't factions within the bureaucracy of the Church that actively work at counter purposes to maintaining our standards and cultural autonomy. The fact that people like Julie Hanks, who is a rather public, but not a rare example of the sort of rot among the intermountain west membership, remains undisciplined, is a sign that somebody has lost the reigns. We went from Elder McConkie boldly prophesying of the "atomic holocaust that shall surely come" to vague semi-prophesies buried under all manner of obfuscation so as not to sound alarmist. The world is reeling at the moment, and our Apostles can only speak in vague generalities. Elder Bednar is the final Apostle that impresses me. He seems to be the only one who is bold and brash enough to speak against the nonsense we're facing. I admire him for confronting the dangers of AI, and for his October General Conference talk this year on pride. Yet still, he had to dodge that one term, we just keep on dodging in our materials, "secret combinations". There is no surer sign that secret combinations have gotten above us than when the Apostles dare not call them out when they are plainly manifested.
The Lord is the one in charge, and I trust Hm completely.. I remember a quote a long time ago "“You may not like what comes from the authority of the Church. It may conflict with your political views. It may contradict your social views. It may interfere with some of your social life. … Your safety and ours depends upon whether or not we follow. … Let’s keep our eye on the President of the Church.”" President Harold B. Lee
The Nemenhah Record 23. And in this thing did the Lord teach us all a great lesson. It is true that the Lord does call out Prophets from among the people. But, let not any people begin in the belief that the calling out makes a man not a man. The Prophet of God is given great gifts of the Spirit. Yea, he may speak with the tongues of Angels and with them, and, if he has the gift of the seer, he may translate strange languages. And behold, the Prophet leads and guides the people in the will and work of the Lord also. But, know this all you who read these things and ponder them in your hearts, the Prophet is fallible. He is not perfect, and his counsels are not perfect. And, though we count ourselves blessed because the Lord does see fit to call and raise up unto us His Prophets, it is because He does this that we feel constrained to subject all things unto the confirmation of the Holy Ghost, howbeit even the words of a Prophet. 24. Behold, the Lord has spoken it: Thou shalt have no other Gods before me. Wherefore, make not gods of your Prophets! For they will be false gods and idols. For, even if they be called of God and appointed, yea, even if they be anointed by the very finger of God, they are yet simple men and you will have made unto yourselves gods that shall fall. For there are but few men unto whom the Lord has given power over death, and they are Ayohahn his beloved Apostle, and Nayfee, Layee, and Tsimohthih (Timothy), who were brothers and among the twelve He chose when He came to the people gathered about the temple in the Hit- ah-yet-noht Pah. But all others shall fall by the shaft of death, just as you and I must likewise fall. And when we fall, our bodies shall go back into the earth, as with all living things. And, notwithstanding our spirits live on, in accordance with that great covenant and plan by which this world was created, yet are we corruptible, and yet does the idol rust and the rot take us. Wherefore, when you make gods of the servants of God, you cast their ashes in His face. Will he hold you sinless in this? 25. I say unto you, He will hold you accountable. For, has He not commanded each of us to pray always? And does this not also apply to every word that has proceeded out of the mouths of the Prophets? For, I ask you, how know you that I ever lived? Now, I write this unto my own descendents. Wherefore, I desire that you have a remembrance of me and of my doing. But, how know you that these writings truly come to you from me, my children? No man may confirm it. It is only by the confirmation of the Holy Ghost that you may know that I truly wrote these things unto you. And behold, it is by that power which the Holy Ghost possesses that you may have all knowledge, for, it is by that power that the Sahnhempeht (Christ) did take upon Himself all things. And it is by that same power that He may give the same to us. Yea, it is by that power that all things may be brought to our remembrance, both those things which we sometime knew of our own conscience and experience, as well as all things known because of the experiences of others. Yea, even all that the Father has may be given to us by this same power. 26. Wherefore, why seek we to make all things sure by the voice and word of men? There is but one way to know of a surety that a thing is true, whether spoken by a man or men, or by a Prophet, or by an Angel, or even by the very voice of Sahnhempeht (Christ) Himself! Yea, I make so bold as to say that I would gladly speak face to face with God, and hold myself blessed in every way. But behold, having thus communed in a most holy way, I would retire to my chamber, and bend my knee and my will, and ask most humbly that the Holy Ghost might confirm the thing unto my soul. 27. Does this sound ill? To some it may speak of doubt. But, I shall importune the Lord in this thing, for He has commanded it. And I would rather He be importuned than that His anger be kindled against me. 28. Yea, for behold, even the elect shall be deceived. Even the Prophets of God may act and speak betimes as men and fathers sometimes do out of the earthy and carnal concerns of their hearts. Yea, what man does not feel strongly the needs and responsibilities of his stewardship? Do not expect them to be any different than yourselves, and, if the Lord does allow men to be fallible and to err, but to repent, so much more ought you to allow the same. Wherefore, the Lord has counseled us: Judge not. For with that same judgment wherewith you judge, so too shall you be judged also. 29. Behold, I say unto you who shall receive these things and ponder them, You shall live in a time when men do seek to elevate the Prophets unto that status wherein they may speak no error nor act in any mean thing. This is a great pitfall to the righteous. For, such men shall make regulations that begin to deny the right of every son or daughter of God to seek the confirmation of the Holy Ghost. Yea, in your day, if a man hears the words of some Prophet and, seeking the confirmation of the Holy Ghost, fails to receive it, but receives instead a witness that the utterance is false or misguided, behold, he shall be brought up before the counsels and he shall be persecuted for having received such a witness. And they shall scourge him bitterly with their words and shall even cast him out from among them.
I’ve been a CPA for many years, just because an organization is tax exempt doesn’t mean that they don’t pay taxes. The church pays a ton of taxes on their unrelated business taxable income. Any charitable organization is required to pay tax on UBTI.
That's another thing that many people forget. There is a business side to the church that pays taxes, and there is the tax-exempt side that doesn't. I think that the OP makes a valid point that if the church leaders talk about certain things as the Prophet and apostles to the members of the church relative to the principals by which they should be living, there could be a grey area where they tax-exempt side then loses that exemption.
@@daverome1142 Dave, no one was making a point that there are no taxes paid on for-profit activities. You know well the issue is that the 501 C3 side, which is where massive amounts of donations come through, does have to maintain a delicate balance limiting the proportion of their activities that could be considered political in order to maintain tax exempt status. For-profit activities are inconsequential for that consideration.
@daverome1142: That is true, but more than a bit obfuscative. The fact that there is an element to overall church operations that pays taxes-even a large amount-doesn't change the fact that it is, in fact, tax exempt and that exemption shields it from an enormous tax burden, one that most organizations would self-censor for the sake of avoiding. In other words, nobody is saying the church doesn't pay taxes. We're saying it is 501c3 tax exempt, which it is, and therefore the leaders are not saying the things that so many members-myself included-think that they should say and would otherwise say.
If today's members feel "anchorless" they aren't studying enough. You're right, there's a good reason we don't have the same spelled out messages as we did before. If you study the general conference talks you will learn this was always coming. President Nelson was not the first president to tell us future spiritual survival depends on the Holy Spirit. People really need to study the gospel as a whole and not just President Benson's or gospel hobbies.
nelson is a liar and only said that to sound cool and inspired..... even his last conference talk had a huge lie about hin nearly dying and having a gun held to his head that never happened...same as his plane near death story and many other stories he has blown up
Tiffanyseavy556 … This is so so true!!!! Yes!!! President Nelson has been telling us to be in tune and only those who are in tune will survive spiritually in the latter days!!!!
@@wufflerdance9481 Easy to look up. I remember when this happened. Here is an article about it. 2009 An official Church Statement says: "On Friday evening they were having dinner together in the mission president's home when armed assailants entered the home and robbed them. We don't have complete information yet, but we understand that Sister Packard's arm was broken. In addition, she and others suffered some superficial injuries, mainly cuts and bruises. Elder and Sister Nelson will continue their assignment over the weekend as planned."
Like you, I’d be very disappointed if it is to protect the tax exempt status. I am joyful in paying tithing, but my joy in paying it would be greater if it meant a muzzle-less church on current social and cultural issues. The words to the hymn “do what is right let the consequence follow” come to mind.
Liberal Governments are taking every opportunity to silence anyone who is against their woke agenda. Losing tax exempt status or even De-Banking is a threat to all churches as some of the wealthy conservative companies have already found out, look it up.
I think it’s the Temple that we don’t want to lose; tax exemption will weed out more people if it goes away and they have to do without that exemption, but it won’t matter to the faithful. Losing the temples, or having to shut them down, would be a huge problem for salvation. They were already closed for a year, and if gov makes laws to change what we are allowed to do, then leaders will close them rather than desecrate them. I do believe it would all be worked out during the Millennium, so we really should not be too worried about this. I will be sad if it happens, but it would be only for a short time.
Absolutely. We are supposed to be teaching these standards to our families. It's not the church's job it's parents job. I know what's right and wrong. Listening to the spirit makes it obvious. I don't need the church to tell me LBGT is against our covenants or that vile music is not good for youth or that scamming welfare system of church is wrong or that abortion is unacceptable to Christ. I know it and will stand up for my standards. I am not unanchored after 60 years.
Maybe you’re good to go, but us parents of young people here in the front lines disagree. They need that clarity from leadership to reinforce what we say.
Also if possible, I suggest taking them to the Sacred Grove in Palmyra, NY. It is like walking into a temple. I have seen so many youth feel the Lord there, some in extraordinary ways. I was converted by the First Vision when 16. There is spiritual power in that incredible event.
New members need CLEAR guidance. You can't teach your children or others what you don't understand. When I joined the brethren were very clear and I needed that. Tax status? Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's. Pay the tax and preach the gospel.
@@BradKandyCroftFamily until the next covid like crisis comes along and those new members are left to their own devices like they were 4 years ago. The entire covid response was a dereliction of duty.
I think that they kind of already did let us know in a way, because they did a change with how long church is, and they said that teaching needs to be in the home and the church will support with classes and talks, etc. But the nitty gritty stuff in society is really up to us to see and understand. It's up to us to grow up now in the Lord and not depend so much on having our hands held by the leaders. I can't speak for the Lord but it seems obvious that He wants us to learn things on our own, to discern what is happening and what we need to be on our guard for. It is our responsibility to receive revelation and to know what the Lord wants for us, what evils and harms are in society and what we should do about it and what we should teach our children. We really have been told. We need to get out of Babylon and spend more time with spiritual things and with the Lord, developing the ability ourselves to hear what He is saying. I just think we need to do less dependency on the brethren and depend more on the Spirit in our lives. It's time to sift between those who want to hear the Lord through the Spirit and those who don't.
Yes yes I’ve learned more the past 4 years because I took it seriously that it’s all up to us. The Lord has taught and now is the harvest time to see what we have. Not much time left to see who will pass the test.
@cherri312 Yep, I have spent a lot more time in the scriptures and I have learned so much more in the last few years also. I'm so much closer to the Spirit and able to discern things going on in society better. It's sad to see many people not getting the message that we shouldn't rely on the brethren to spell everything out for us and that the teacher won't hold our hand and give answers while we are taking the test. When we feel alone and the answers aren't coming, we are in the testing room to see what we'll do. Thanks for your comment.
@@cherri312Same. I took CFM seriously, since 2019 my family has been rigorously studying the scriptures. Even though church is two hours we have third hour at home and that when we do CFM.
@@agldlfeI agree with your sentiment totally. I just want to add, if people would actually study and stop going to church looking to feel the vibes, just think how much more fulfilling and productive our classes and sacrament meetings would be........
If one is listening to the prophets, being obedient to the tenants of the gospel and living worthy or the spirit you KNOW when you’re hearing truth and you will KNOW which way to live without every thing being spelled out constantly. Pres Nelson and others have been very clear to me with encouraging us to live a certain way. As a parent and grandparent the challenge is to live correctly and to give the correct example in the ways to conduct ourselves and take the opportunity to speak about it as well. We should KNOW what is correct without a leader having to remind us constantly. If we don’t then we are not allowing the spirit to teach us truth.
Greg, great episode--short and to the points. Here are a some other possible reasons why the church has backed off so much and risks it is exposing itself to: * reason: the fear of men (e.g., losing tax exempt status), * reason: the Lord told them to back off, such as we saw w/Alma when Amulek wanted to draw down the powers of heaven on the wicked, * risk of appearing like the the Lord is not revealing His will to His servants, the prophets, resulting in the hearts of many failing them, * risk of the trumpet giving an uncertain sound resulting in members not hearkening or knowing what to say or do--like those we envision at the Tower of Babel, * risk of appearing weak and afraid (exposing) the fear of men, * risk of showing that maybe there is a time to "falter in defending truth and right" * risk of showing we'll pass with the "Onward Christian soldiers" spirit for now. * risk of disobeying the commandment to "say nothing but repentance" (but they still do tell our close group of members to repent) * risk of not being a light of the world or of not being a leaven or of not being salt of the earth * risk of being cowardly while other very, very few Christian ministers are calling the world to repentance (Franklin Graham and who else?) It is reasonable to assume that Pres' Benson would have spoken out, likely despite the risk of losing the tax-exempt status. Maybe that's why he's not around. Capt' Moroni would not have done well, right? Would he have been muzzled, too? It is sad--but I'd hope they have God's blessings w/going quiet on social issues. That said, thank goodness for Trump who has spoken up for US values we used to speak up for, also, though we quietly say a little about freedom of religion.
I feel we don’t as President Hinckley taught us to stand for truth and righteousness anymore. Ever since Covid is seems we are bowing down to the elites. I love the gospel and I would never leave but it does concern me.
If trends continue, the Federal government will collapse long before the church needs to end its 501C3 status. The number of years we have left with relative economic and social stability can be counted on one hand.
"Home centered and church supported" Seems clear to me - they are trying to invite the world to come to Christ. They don't want to drive people away. Note, Christ was in the Temple MANY times before he decided to turn over tables and kick out the sellers.
Liberal Governments are taking every opportunity to silence anyone who is against their woke agenda. Losing tax exempt status or even De-Banking is a threat to all churches as some of the wealthy conservative companies have already found out, look it up.
With the election of Trump and appointment of his team, seems the pendulum is swinging against wokeness and censorship. Perhaps we will see like changes in the Church? I wonder. Meanwhile, here in rural Missouri, topics like abortion and latter-day Gadiantons are rather freely discussed already.
My thoughts on this is.The church is now a worldwide church and they need to appeal to all the members of the church not just those in America with social our problems.
I don’t like Church today. I go to Sacrament so I can partake, try not to be in the way, I am a widow, only 63, and I have a ton of kids, many who have lost their way. I homeschooled them all many have gone on to College and University a lot have graduated, yet I feel like I still didn’t do enough. We read the Book of Mormon everyday, had devotional, but now it seems like everything keeps changing rapidly, and I almost feel like the doctrine is changing. And. With all the temple changes, wow! 😢
I personally love the changes that have been made in the temple ceremony. I feel like the main teachings are all in tact and we can get more people endowed in less time. There is a lot of work to be done and if we can be more efficient in getting it done, we will be more prepared for the 2nd coming.
Keep serving in the temple. The temple changes amplify the meaning of the Atonement of Jesus Christ and our covenant relationship with him. Encourage your bishopric to teach more about Jesus Christ and about living the (Abrahamic) covenants. The doctrine is not changing but becoming increasingly clarified to focus more upon the Savior and his complete word.
I hear what you are saying and I have wrestled with this. A lot of times I listen to old 70’s conference talks. I think it’s not the tax exempt status but a protection for the Saints. Remember prop 8 it was we the saints who lost our jobs and got put in a list if we donated. Maybe it’s for us to be able to survive in this wicked world. One day I believe they will again teach to these ideas but it will be when things are so bad the majority of people will long for this council. Right now I don’t think we are the majority and we are left to “know” because we have the desire.
The brethren have and do address issues related to cultural influences, including concepts that could align with "wokeness" or postmodern thought, but they often do so in broader terms rather than labeling these ideas directly. They typically frame their talks within the context of eternal truths, moral standards, and the teachings of Jesus Christ, emphasizing the importance of distinguishing between worldly philosophies and gospel principles.
@@ClintThomsen As in, why don’t they list and condemn every specific trend, behavior, or ideology in the world? Perhaps it’s because emphasizing "eternal truths, moral standards, and the teachings of Jesus Christ" is more all-encompassing. While it might feel gratifying to hear the brethren denounce every ill, I see such an approach as more reactive than proactive. In my view, they’re doing well by focusing on core teachings and minimizing criticism.
@@motuna5332 I'd buy that argument if they had also stopped "denouncing" other ills, but they haven't. They've only stopped talking about certain things.
I don’t think tax exemption can be an excuse for failure to speak out on things that are not explicitly political. And the fact that we have to observe the law to maintain tax exempt status is just another example of a two tiered justice system. Democrats have been campaigning in Black churches for decades.
Excellent points I also remember a very bold stance by the church many years ago , I do consider however the complexity of society today and what a difficult balancing act that Pres Nelson must take to maintain the programs of the church for future growth and prosperity for the church. I am glad that I am not in charge because I would not be able to do it
If you have read the Book of Mormon you are aware of several authors who were constrained when they wanted to tell us more about the things that were revealed to them. There is a purpose in that. President Nelson warned us: “But in coming days, it will not be possible to survive spiritually without the guiding, directing, comforting, and constant influence of the Holy Ghost.” We should not expect that the Lord will command in all things. We must put forth the effort to find the answers we seek, not expect them to just be handed to us. I think Heavenly Father is restraining our leaders just as he did in the Book of Mormon and there may be several reasons for that. I don’t know the mind of God but I do know there is purpose in all things. And I do know the Savior is returning soon and it is up to each one of us to be prepared.
I no longer depend on the Church or its leaders for anything aside from the ecclesiastical priesthood keys and ordinances. Provide the keys and access to ordinances, I and my family can rely on the Atonement and the Holy Ghost for all else.
I know in the past you have said you don't like the explanation of wheat and tares being allowed to mature. But I can't get away from that thought has it relates to this topic. Often we can infer purpose by outcome. Additionally, anything talked about other than declaring repentance unto this generation, and things we need to do to prepare for the second coming such as hear him, remove contention, etc etc, - everything added upon that is a dilution of those key messages needed today. I think President Nelson has said everything necessary in order for members to be in touch with spiritual guidance enough in order to survive spiritually going forward. Was Noah expected to decry every new fad that came up in his time? Or was his responsibility to cry repentance and preparation as much as possible?
The issues we’re dealing with today are hardly a fad. Ceasing to reinforce cultural issues and sexual sin is a dilution, not the other way around. Also, I must have missed the part of that parable where the gardener plants the tares and specifically nourishes them…
@@ClintThomsenClint, I said "allowed". And you seem to infer I am asserting scriptures indicate overt nourishment. Not so. To your point on dilution... when has the church ceased to "reinforce... sexual sins"? Or even cultural ones! President Nelson and president Oaks have both recently talked about coarsening discourse and avoiding contention in those in that discourse. That seems to me like a very direct addressing of a cultural issue. So what is it you feel hasn't adequately been addressed, or the leadership is "ceasing" to address?
"In coming days, it will not be possible to survive spiritually without the guiding, directing, comforting, and constant influence of the Holy Ghost." Those who will not take the Holy Ghost as their guide will fall. It is a slothful servant who needs to be commanded in all things. We are in the separating phase, the wheat from the tares. We have to take responsibility for our own salvation.
Have we heeded the teachings & prophecies in the Family a Proclamation to the World? Have they given the messages already? "the people hardened their hearts and would not hearken unto their words; and the prophets mourned and withdrew.... Ether 11:13
I 100% sustain the apostles in general authorities. After they repeating the same things for two centuries, they should not have to micromanage us on every principal. We are at the point when we are expected to live the “higher Law“. That means mastering the laws that have been important and still are. The church has to handle certain things delicately, in a climate where persecution could rage faster and sooner, if we don’t be careful how we word the things over the pulpit. Chasity, self control, temperament, and the word of wisdom are all just as important as ever. The proclamation on the family, was given as a warning, and it was given as a warning before we have seen everything crumble to the point where the world is becoming anti-family. That is no coincidence. God’s laws have not changed. We should not be a slothful servant, who needs to be commanded in all things.
I haven't heard this statement from any pulpit (General Conference, Stake Conference, Ward meeting, etc.) since 2018: Further, we warn that the disintegration of the family will bring upon individuals, communities, and nations the calamities foretold by ancient and modern prophets. We call upon responsible citizens and officers of government everywhere to promote those measures designed to maintain and strengthen the family as the fundamental unit of society.
Yeah, that’s it. They just don’t want to micromanage. That’s why they stopped talking only about the controversial issues that will get us into hot water.
One of the parables Jesus taught is about a net cast into the sea, found in Matt 13:48-49. 48. Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind, which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels; but cast the bad away. 49. So shall it be at the end of the world. I believe we (the church) is in the phase of “gathering of every kind”, it will be up to the Lord when the Kingdom of Heaven comes (Millenium) to sort them out. I support the leaders of the church in reaching out to all people, in every way they can, to find the gospel. This is why I think things are happening as they are. The Church is true!
Except people are leaving because they cannot take the cognitive dissonance of being asked to support an anti-gay marriage bill in California and then asked to support the overturn of the Federal Protection of Marriage act. Or, support "I am a Mormon campaign" only a few years later to be asked to not use the term "Mormon"? These sort of things challenge the very definition of the gospel and cause those who are sincere to bow out.
@Jeff Yes, I absolutely agree with what you say, I see the same thing as well. Throughout church history there have been periods of apostasy for various reasons,, even during Christ’s ministry there was one notable period of apostasy, as recorded in John 6:54-61. The people were offended at something Jesus said and left. Why would he do this? Wouldn’t more people add strength to His cause? He is more interested a quality conversion rather than large numbers of uncommitted followers, but the catch is, He has to gather in as many as possible to give them a chance to develop the quality of their conversion. This is why there has to be a sorting, that’s also His job. He asked the twelve if they will also go away, Peter responds “to whom shall we go”. To those in our day who are “bowing out”, where do they go? Is there a better way? Is there another organization that produces as much good and as many good people as the church does? The Lord is purposely testing us! If we realize what’s happening, He hasn’t abandoned us, He is strengthening whoever can hold on to the core; atonement, scripture, service to others, His prophets.
I see a lot of mixed feelings in the comments here. I can't lie my testimony has been shaken by all this. Prophets have always been bold warning voices for the Lord despite worldy pressures. Sometimes it led to the death of a prophet. Why all of a sudden change? Why now, in the last days where the clear warning voice is needed most? I have been praying since covid that the Lord would let me know if president Nelson is a prophet of God. The Lord has chosen to be silent and hasn't answered it for me yet. So despite my deep profound confusion I will continue to support the brethren unless the Lord gave me a strong witness to do otherwise.
Brother, I make sense of it all this way: The scriptures are clear and if “it” is contrary to the scriptures it is a policy of men. Like Section 119. And I take solace that God is in charge and He will take care of the mess, Section 85:7 And it shall come to pass that I, the Lord God, will send one mighty and strong, holding the scepter of power in his hand, clothed with light for a covering, whose mouth shall utter words, eternal words; while his bowels shall be a fountain of truth, to set in order the house of God… And knowing that the Holy Church of God is polluted by the hypocritical teachers and leaders (how much, I don’t know )Mormon 8:26-40, And since God is the same yesterday,today,and forever and in Him there is no varianbleness neither shadow of changing Mormon 9:9 If “it” is changing it’s not of God.
Brother, I make sense of it all this way: The scriptures are clear and if “it” is contrary to the scriptures it is a policy of men. Like Section 119. And I take solace that God is in charge and He will take care of the mess, Section 85:7 “And it shall come to pass that I, the Lord God, will send one mighty and strong, holding the scepter of power in his hand, clothed with light for a covering, whose mouth shall utter words, eternal words; while his bowels shall be a fountain of truth, to set in order the house of God…” And knowing that the Holy Church of God is polluted by the hypocritical teachers and leaders (how much polluted I don’t know) Mormon 8: 26 40, And since God is the same yesterday,today,and forever and in Him there is no varianbleness neither shadow of changing Mormon 9:9 If “it” is changing it’s not of God.
Greg you might be right, it could have to do with tax exempt status and I agree, I would rather that not be a reason. But I think there might be another reason too. There is strong evidence to suggest we joined the UN 2030 agenda sometime ago. Potentially adjacent to the odd general conference address by (I think), Elder Bednar, specifically mentioning and praising it. When you research its tenants and then find out that in order to maintain membership, the organization CANNOT criticize its tenants publicly; things seem to fall in place. If this is true, then I believe it was done with good intention, to be a positive voice in a movement that will gain power. But unfortunately, if the agreement to participate was to silence parts of that voice, then I think it will serve to change the church, more than the church will change it. We have been warned about agreements with the world. We also have prophesy to suggest that we are susceptible to these temptations. The Book of Mormon was given for us to recognize the opposition within ourselves. Not to judge someone else. We are the audience it speaks to and its warnings and predictions are to us, not so much the greater society.
Of course you’re criticizing-you’re just saying you’re not so you can justify your frustrations of prophets not knowing what to do. The brethren need to be criticized when they lead the church astray Greg-they’re flawed men bro. They’re confusing everyone because even they don’t know the current church policies. You criticized the church the full 15 minutes you don’t need to recant it and say you didn’t-you don’t need to be ashamed of it. If we as members don’t encourage positive change from within the church the brethren are just going to keep making dumb decisions that continue to confuse and lead members out of the church.
I think is because the church focus is world wide, back in the 60s-80s it was very US centered, the moment they talk about US issues the people from a small branch on an island in the Philippines (or other parts in the world) will not understand what is going on, the best the church has done is precisely what is doing right now, focus on covenants, temples and CFM,
My son served in Africa. Ultra-conservative Africa- the place several apostles have decreed to be future of the church. SLC’s lack of addressing western depravity is a massive stumbling block for growth there.
The reason why people are disturbed by the church's withdrawal from the social issues is that parents look to the church and scriptures as a source of authority. Children are more apt to accept a parent's position on a subject if it is in line with an authority they both recognize. Otherwise it's viewed as just the parents being mean or controlling.
This. We as parents are BEGGING for clarity on SPECIFIC issues. When I have to point to old talks to reinforce issues more and more, it doesn't help the case I am making to my kids.
Hey Greg, I think the problem isn't the brethren, but the membership. We as members have a myopic view of things. We think the church should do this or that. We are a worldwide church and the Brethren have a responsibility to be the mouthpiece of Christ. I for one trust that Christ is directing the church. I have my responsibility in my sphere of influence. I think about the number of temples being built and how loosing tax exempt statis would impact the building of temples. I know there are members who are pushing for so much that is contrary to the doctrine. I stand with Christ knowing that we priesthood will not be taken from the earth. That the Family is central to the exaltation of God's children. It is sad to see so many members embracing Babylon. I love all of them and pray daily for their eyes to be opened, but in the end they have their agency to choose Christ or Babylon. I say this from my personal experience. Life is hard and oftentimes we dont understand why things happen. I made a decision long ago to let Christ lead my life even if that means I lose loved ones slong the way. It hurts every day knowing some may never come back and embrace Christ again. I know we have a responsibility to stand up for Christ and truth. The brethren have been telling us for years what is on the line. Honestly this all brings to mind D&C 58. It is our responsibility to speak up for truth even if those present feel uncomfortable with the truth. We need not be afraid to speak truth. I worry that whole wards in affluent areas are embracing Babylon. It actually looks a lot like what we see in The Book of Mormon. It is so sad that they cant see what is happening. They think they are wise and can create change in the church (2 Nephi 9).
How would the tax exempt status effect the building of temples? The Church has $100B. Do you think they will not be able to finance temples if future tithing is taxed?
it is a leadership problem...lots of faithful saints are still living the gospel and ate being censored and punished by leadership for speaking up for what is right in so many way that past prophets would have supported...they only care about new world order, money and fame
I couldn't even watch conference this year, I tried but so much mamby- pamby messages with what is going on in the world. I'm still not over their jab stance either.
You need to wake up. The church isn’t a political party. God, the father and Jesus Christ, didn’t come to restore a political party, they came to restore the church of Jesus Christ.
@@Laurie3721 what are you talking about? Jabs, are we not being called to repent and beware? Christ is coming soon. I felt rejuvenated in what I need to do better. My life has been completely turned upside down the last 7 months. I am so looking forward to the second coming and it's coming. We are supposed to change and become better. We were never meant to stay as is. If you felt a jab or too, maybe it's guilt. I have been humbled and it sucked, but It has changed me.
@trishachristensen7667 I didn't want to say covid shot but I guess I needed to. What are you even on about? Just making my own comment, no need for a conversation.
My best guess is that from 1850 to roughly 1990 was the time for the church to grow so that it may sustain itself and for members to get schooled in all the needful things. That time is over. We are now to share the gospel with every kindred, tongue, and nation. Some of those nations would not welcome us if our message is adverse to their political system or culture. So we press forward sharing gospel fundamentals with them to the best degree possible. Meanwhile, those who have been around the church culture a little longer need to share with newer members in their area about the importance of that which is no longer taught/talked about, in a Christlike fashion, not with condescension.
The church has crippled us by declaring they are our spiritual authority. So if they are silent we are left to figure it out on our own and we don’t trust ourselves to get right answers. I have now removed all the voices from my head and go directly to God for answers.
I agree with the idea that the responsibility is put more and more on us. Many people in the past decade left the church because many would say "the church did not tell me." I don't think is the tax thing. In general, the church has the high ground as a global faith. In the west, many of these issues are at the front. But not as much as in other parts of the world. And it could be also that because of the growth of the church, the brethren are being more general in there speech. What is affecting us here in the US is not what is affecting others in other parts of the world. In the DnC 19:21-22 it says. "21 And I command you that you preach naught but repentance, and show not these things unto the world until it is wisdom in me. 22 For they cannot bear meat now, but milk they must receive; wherefore, they must not know these things, lest they perish." The church is full of new converts, new pioneers, people that need to be fed milk so that they can grow strong. In my opinion, its not helpful if social issues would be a major focus above that of the Doctrine of Christ and inviting people to stay on the covenant path. That is more important because if you are converted to Christ, the rest will follow. And by the way, I'm a convert, I've spent much of my time coming up in the church among new converts, most converts are too worried about there own problems in life to even think about the social issues that may or may not even apply to them. So what the brethren are doing with preaching the doctrine of Christ in relation to temples and covenants is spot on.
If I'm being honest, this is something I struggle with a lot. It's almost as if the brothern have gone on an apology tour for the last several years. At some point you have to start asking yourself why does the church do things that are illegal, things that would get you and i thrown into prison, things that generate millions of dollars in fines...and it's repetitive. What happened to "render unto Cesar that which is Cesar's"? I try to listen to conference only to hear the same old platitudes with little to guide us in these troubled times. During the lock downs we were told by the church to stay home, social distance, wear a mask...and don't offend anyone else. All this while other "apostate" churches where fighting the lock downs. Then i hear Brother Oaks tell us "never again". Only to do it again. Where is the spirit of the Christ who braded a whip and physically threw the money changers out of the temple? It's as if the modern church has fallen in to apostasy. Perhaps that is signaling the beginning of the end times.
@@CwicShow And yet it is. The ancient Jewish church held the keys, but kept its people in darkness. There is no reason why that cannot happen today. Nor is there any reason why God cannot send a forerunner to wrest the keys and the kingdom from the gentiles, just as it was wrested from the Jews by John. The kingdom rolls on, but by another people.
"Oh be wise. What more can I say"...I feel that the church leaders have been very clear on the social issues of our day. If we are reading the scriptures, conference talks and keeping ourselves unspotted from the world, spiritual clarity comes and aligns with what the bretheren and sister organization's leadership have taught and continue to teach.
I know what God expects from me and I have had the responsibility and taught my children. I have no questions what is right and wrong,it is clear to me. We have the scriptures, we have the gift of the Holy Ghost. I don’t see what you feel is missing. We have to take responsibility to govern our selves
I'm glad you are addressing what we all are thinking. I love the gospel and the church that has brought it to me. It is a great blessing. My world was really rocked by how the church handled the pandemic. I knew something was really off. I go to church for the sacrament and obedience but the talks and lessons are painfully lacking in substance by design. I love serving in the temple and reading scripture and other good books. I know we have to create our own zion in the home but I miss the community and sense of refuge from Babylon that used to exist at church.
I remember someone was asking about food storage one time and how the brethren don't really ever mention it in conference anymore and someone replied how many times do they really need to talk about it? Maybe they are tired of talking about it and not having people listen.
We have been taught about every social ill for the last 30 years. All the answers are in general conference addresses from Benson to Oaks and Christofferson to Bednar from the canon to the Proclamation. Every prophet has spoken out against socialism yet the members of the Church continue to support, promote, encourage and vote for socialist tenets. Prophets and apostles have given the doctrine on abortion and yet members continue to support, promote, encourage and vote for abortion rights. The doctrine of the family as eternal is well established in scripture and by modern prophets and is never changing, but members still advocate, promote, support, encourage and vote for LGBT causes. The word of wisdom is well established in scripture and by prophets, but no one has told me specifically that Zyn, high sugar diets and Monster drinks are addictive and bad for my soul, let alone my body. If you have eyes to see and ears to hear, every current social ill has been specifically addressed at GC, and further at or BYU, BYUI, BYUH or GC leadership training, or area presidency training -all readily available on anyone’s phone at anytime.
Nowhere was this idea more vivid for me than during 2020. The dereliction of duty by every major institution reeked of a cover your assets mindset. The church offered absolutely nothing unique from anyone else in the world, and had absolutely no acknowledgement that we weren't all living the same experience. All I wanted from church leaders was an acknowledgement that they were afraid of governments. "We love an value each of you. We cannot at this time accommodate everyone in their different beliefs and risk factors. Please understand this is not a deliberate exclusion. These uncertain times are full of uncertain laws, and we err on the most conservative side." Or, to hell with all that and fear God more than man. But what they did was the worse of both worlds. Kick out members who could not toe the line, and act all virtuous about it. Require the vaccine as a virtue signal. Limit temple attendance and require masks. It was hell on earth and I am still having a hard time forgiving. Where was the inspiration behind any of it? They never said. They never explained a thing. It still makes me sad, especially for my kids who did not get enough of the experiences prior generations got and took for granted. To sacrifice the rising generation was the ultimate afront in my mind.
The Church needs to give up the tax exempt status allowing us to restart the adoptions that we can allow children to be placed in righteous homes who will protect them from the woke mind virus.
I think it’s a good thing. A higher and holier way. It has to change because only those that have eyes to see and ears to hear, will get the message. If we look back and say, “the prophets used to do this or that. Why don’t they now?” That’s the wrong line of thinking. We are always progressing as a people and a church. We are in the final phase where we have to receive our own direction from the lord while using the latest general conference talks as a litmus test for truth. This is the 5 foolish virgins versus the 5 wise.
D&C 58:26-28: For behold it is not meet that I should command in all things;for he that is compelled in all things, the same is a slothful and not a wise servant; wherefore he receive the no reward. Vs27: Verily I say, men should be anxiously engaged in a good cause, and do many things of their own free will, and bring to pass much righteousness; vs28: For the power is in them, wherein they are agents unto themselves, and inasmuch as men do good they shall in no wise lose their reward. Read heading paragraph when & why this revelation was given….. helpful to think in terms of our context of “living in these last days” where every little choice matters ‘ we need to become strong within & accept personal responsibility for our choices in ways never before required. The Restored Gospel’s FOUNDATION has been laid priesthood power & service to others! We fill in the rest! In that priesthood power is our centerpoints Christ & Heavenly Fathet! Let’s make them & ourselves proud!😇🧑🦳🥰
I think IT IS more obvious than ever ,what it is( the gosple) and what it is not. If people ( members )can’t see that ,they are obviously not prepared to meet the Savior. Time is short !!! We need to work on our selves and our families to become more like Christ.
Hormone blockers are evil. This should have nothing to do with political party. People are frustrated that leadership doesn't address many issues and is vague with many others.
Jesus is the example; He trusted in His Father and miraculously got the coin from the fish’s mouth and paid the tax and went on fearlessly teaching truth. The Church tells the members to pay their tax, the Corp fears the tax and walks on eggshells and preaches a water down gospel, seeking the world’s acceptance and adulation.
I think a lot of the members of the church have become soft on issues because of political correctness. And I think that if the church comes out like it used to members will get mad and leave the church. I think we’re at the end of times where the higher laws are too hard for people in the church to do anymore. I think most everyone’s living a terrestrial or a telestial law ,that’s just my opinion.
While I don't like to see people leave the church, if they are that weak that they get offended and leave the church, they probably have bigger problems. The need to be ok with the truth and if the truth offends them, that means that they would prefer the church be more flexible to fit their wants/desires.
You're right on the money here. International church or not the Book of Mormon raises many issues that are VERY politically relevant perhaps no more than "conspiracies'. Our world is polluted by big business, billionaires and areas of governments where secrecy reigns and I think many of us have sort current direction in a turbulent world... where is our leadership??? Just asking 😂
In a political setting i mentioned to my church leader that i hoped the US govt revoked tax exempt status from all schools and all churches including mine.
How do we know what exactly our responsibility is without the direction of living prophets? It seems like it’s leaving it up to each individuals interpretation of how exaltation is accomplished if we don’t have specific instruction from living prophets. We also are told to take the word of the living prophets over that of past prophets, how do we do that when some things aren’t being said by living prophets?
Agree. Yes the church is there to support families but they are also there to give us guidance and direction. The church seems to be very wishy washy on issues that they need to take a stand on. Very disappointing.
You’re right. It’s very confusing. IMHO Believing living prophets over past prophets is a false doctrine. It sets them up as a modern monopoly of Mormonism. Oops not suppose to say Mormon ; )
@@daisygirlrains2002 I think “very disappointing” is a bit harsh from my view. They give great counsel and revelation, i love being a member of the church but it would help a lot to feel like there’s a stated position on some of the crazy things in society.
@@cherylmorris3618 I don’t think it’s false doctrine, it makes alot of sense that current revelation on current events would be more important but for that there has to be a stated position on the current events.
The Scriptures tell us to listen to ALL the holy prophets. President Nelson talked about a litmus test in conference to test their words in the next six months… I test their words against the word of God in the Scriptures. But that me.
There is a reason for this. The church has a mission. And being our political Savior before the second coming is not it since the saints fell into captivity long ago with statehood. The church is the bride. According to Joseph it is not to openly challenge or oppose corrupt governments but to get along with them and leave judgement to the Lord. the verse I refer to say in the NT and DC to make friends with the mammon of unrighteousness. Joseph also said before he died that it was not always wise to reveal all the truth. He said for the future the church must refrain from its open exposing and challenging of the secret combinations of it enemies any longer but to instead patiently take its lumps. So the church as the bride needs to wait for the bridegroom to be saved politically and be protected. That's how it works. Meanwhile members that have made covenants to spend their lives even if it costs them their lives to build and protect the church should keep their covenants. They should be willing to stand alone if needed to give the church political cover and take all the heat individually. The church needs to be trusted and accepted by corrupt governments everywhere so it can teach and gather and provide ordinances etc. But having been taught correct principles we must show we are willing to govern ourselves by those principles. So when the church begs us to vote and run for office and to establish and protect principles of freedom they are asking us to keep our covenants for Pete's sake. 501c3 muzzles the church. And you are kidding yourself if you think it's voluntary for such a big church. It's voluntary in name only. If the church is found in breach of the requirements of that tyrannical designation, the government can go back to the day the church was issued the status and revoke it and then calculate all taxes penalties and fines since then to bankrupt the church and seize all its assets virtually overnight. People don’t seem to have any idea how the corrupt government can arbitrarily decide to accuse and judge the church as noncompliant on a whim. They did that with the sec filing. The church fought back on the child molestation hit prices in Arizona. And shortly after they get told a purposefully ambiguous filing requirement that had worked for decades was now a violation so hey found fine and embarrass the church. Do people really think that was some coincidence? No it was w warning shot. If you were to imagine what the church might need to do and say to survive a Nazi German type rise to power. Then the defensive and overly complaint moves the church is a king will make perfect logical sense. Imagine hitler saying you a voluntarily be a 501c3 or not. It's a threat not a choice. Case law says that a 501c3 org cannot be in opposition to any government health policy. They legally have to rubber stamp such policies. So when president Nelson tells us we can't just rely on them anymore because if we don't know how to get revelation or we won't spiritually survivor he knows what he is talking about.
I have learned and understood many things through the study and pondering of Doctrine and Covenants 58:26-33. The church, it's leaders and members are charged with sharing the gospel with the world. The living of gospel principles will take care of social uncertainties.
I'm really liked having a dress code for the youth and adults. As a young woman president years ago I noticed that the parents that did not enforce a dress code on their children were the same children who tended to have morality problems later on. There really is a correlation.
While Jesus toured Judea during his mortal ministry, He spoke plainly to the people. The closer He came to Jerusalem and His crucifixion, the more He spoke in parables to confound the lawyers and Pharisees who tried to trip Him up and convict himself. Those with eyes to see and ears to hear got the message. Our times are a representation of His final days. The Prophets and Apostles of our time are telling us what is going on and what is going to happen. “You will need the constant companionship of the Holy Ghost or you will not survive spiritually.”We are living in the Last Days. You either get it or you don’t.
“Teach them correct principles and let them govern themselves.” I miss the Church addressing these issues, but I feel like as we speed closer to the second coming, we are either elect and know how to do what is right, or we are not and are free to choose the lesser part.
I wholeheartedly agree. The sad part is knowing that friends and family are walking away over things that are not worth their time. I can only imagine the heartache Heavenly Father has knowing that so many have chosen Babylon.
I feel like this is a much bigger part of this. In many ways, the members of the Church have treated the Church as if it is the Law of Moses - need strict instructions on every issue. I've noticed it on a few issues, but moreso wiith the youth standards. The Strength of Youth used to define standards and give examples to make it clear. The Church released a new version and made it clear they were taking out the examples and expecting people to follow the Spirit. Almost immediately, I began hearing youth leaders (particularly sisters relating to the dress standards) talk about we don't have those kind of standards any more, as if the morality and modesty issues just disappeared. The reality is the standards have not really changed, but just how they're given and the detail. And any time someone mentions bare shoulders, midriff or shorts, the charge gets started.
I see the same thing with music in Sacrament meeting. The handbook used to give some examples, such as brass instruments, not being really reverent enough for sacrament meeting. As a brass player, I fully understand and get it. It takes a high degree of skill and maturity for a brass musician to get a reasonably reverent performance. The last revision the Church took out the examples, but still requires the appropriateness of the music for the sacrament. Immediatelly, all the musicians began talking about "the ban" (on brass instruments) being lifted - there was never a ban, but a discussion of why they really aren't appropriate. And now people are going out of their way to essentially ignore the concept of reverence.
We could go on. Caffeine is a perfect example. Forever it was talked about caffeine being incompatible with the WoW (it was not taught as the reason for tea and coffee being inapproprriate, but the nature and adictiveness made it incompatible). President Hinckley talked about it specifically in his interview on 60 minutes.
Once he had passed away, the Church made it's statement about it not being in the WoW, and now I see more and more members essentially addicted to their energy drinks - people are actually bringing them to ward council.
Are any of these big deals? Mabe not, but it's definitely an indication of our insistence on external rules to live by, and that without them, we drop them.
@@RichardChappell1 ouch I feel called out 😅 I was off soda for several months and then had a Dr pepper as a treat. Now I'm back to at least 1 a week. I know I should purge again.
And of course the politics I believe in make me the elect and those filthy apostates vote for that other thing.
Thank you, you took the words out of my mouth. We don't need to be told what the church is. It is the church if Jesus Christ.
I miss semi-annual priesthood meeting. That was generally pretty direct.
The Lord is guiding church members to grow spiritually, much like a parent sending a teen off to college to learn independence. Leaders have been preparing us for this shift, and it seems like every Sunday talk has conference quotes saying “we won’t be able to survive the coming days without discerning by the power of the Holy Ghost.” Changes like at-home learning and shorter Sunday meetings encourage daily personal study. Now, we’re urged to attend the temple more frequently to learn from the Spirit and strengthen our spiritual discernment. It’s like the church is a young adult learning to navigate the world without constant guidance. If we’re in the “college” phase now, the next step is marriage-and we know what that means: the Bridegroom is coming soon!
"The true believer in Christ... understands the difference between ends and means and sees that some Church aids are, in a sense, scaffolding for the soul, which scaffolding one day will be removed- like waterwings or training wheels.
-Neal A. Maxwell, BYU Speeches, "True Believers in Christ," October 7, 1980
You nailed it ❤
And many college students fall away from the gospel because of the outside voices of academia. They need more guidance in my opinion.
This church has blessed my life in more ways than I can count in my 60+ years as a member. I trust my testimony and I trust the Lord. I dont spend much time questioning why the leaders do some of the things they do? I think they are walking a razor's edge right now trying to preach Christ and protecting the church from lawsuits and government influence. And being a worldwide church means considering many cultures and governments. It can not be an easy task navigating these issues while still maintaining our ecclesiastical identity. I try to live the commandments. I will continue to study the scriptures and do all those basic things to strengthen my faith. My faith compels me to trust the system even when I dont understand.
AMEN!
@@rckburris very well put
When you are converted strengthen your sisters and brothers.
Same here.
What Would Jesus Say , President Nelson ? The world doesnt know His Commandments, I thought a prophet was to WARN EVERYONE!
Boyd K Packer: “The study of the doctrines of the gospel will improve behavior quicker than a study of behavior will improve behavior. That is why we stress so forcefully the study of the doctrines of the gospel.”
I don’t understand what that has to do with this topic
@@markcavandish1295 the Brethren can teach social ills until they are blue in the face, but unless the people put on Christ entirely and be consecrated saints we are lost. Studying and applying the Gospel to our personal lives is turning our whole will over to God. Social winds are always changing, so no matter how much we study and prepare and prevent against them we will always be behind…. Putting the Doctrine of Christ first in our lives negates any desire for activism against the Church or against Christ, whose church it is.
@@charliegladwell1 that all makes sense, but why was the individual ails of the time harped on us so much as members in the 80’s 90’s where today we’re just supposed to assume?
@ I guess it comes down to why do you want the apostles to speak about specific social/geopolitical issues? What specific challenges would you like addressed? And further, what specifically have they not spoken about?
I feel like they have spoken about everything over the last 30 years (I’m 47) we are facing currently. Every prophet has a quote against socialism and the need to protect liberty. President Kimball spoke on not voting for laws that force people to do good because it takes away agency. President Benson spoke ad nauseam against socialism. We have the Proclamation on the Family that is straight forward. We have the Word of Wisdom, which doesn’t mention Zyn pouches or Monster drinks, but it does if you read it. We have BYU, BYUI, BYUH, Ensign college speeches, we have young adult ‘face to face’ events (Bednar last month spoke on the dangers of AI). We have the scriptures replete and overflowing with social commentary from ancient times that mirrors our own. We have then Elder Nelson who spoke about the evils of Abortion.
I do love this question and topic, but I think we have everything we need…we just don’t use the information and council and revelations we have. Am I missing something specific?
@charliegladwell1
Great questions!
I believe with all my heart and mind that Our Savior Jesus Christ has and will always direct our church prophets, seers, revelators to focus on exactly what we need most at the time. We enjoy the blessing of the scriptures as our light to our salvation, growth, preservation and progression. The Holy Spirit attending our study will teach us all things necessary for our growth and salvation.
❤
I was raised Lutheran and left that church while at Luther College. I wanted to belong to an organization that had very clearly stated principles. I found that in 1975 when I joined the Church while living in Alaska. We received concise direction and clearly voiced leadership. We WERE seen as a Peculiar People. Since the Come Follow Me program has come for home and church study, I see two things which appear to oppose or almost oppose one another; the Teddy Bear Jesus and the clear warning that we personally must know and heed the voice of the Holy Ghost. As we do this, we are more dependent on the voice of the Lord and not so much the strictness present almost 50 years ago. We love our leaders but are clearly being taught that WE EACH must receive personal revelation and then act on it. I am trying to be clear, here- Perhaps it is me as I approach 80; I feel more stable and established in my testimony, understanding, and growing study of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Although l listen to and study Conference talks, I do not lean on them as much as find they reinforce choices I have made through repentance and my own personal progression. Am I making any sense???
@@marensvien4652 I believe they are making it so that we have a more personal relationship with Heavenly Father and are learning to receive revelation from him. It's been difficult for me personally but I am willing to learn
I hope I have your clarity and peace when I am your age.
Cause right now, I’m kind of all over the place.
Keep that testimony strong.😊
You make sense to me. That is where I am. I have been taught correct principles over and over and over and over. And yet I have often still failed to keep those basic principles. So as I refine my discipleship, and recommit to my covenants, I feel the responsibility upon my shoulders, to gain my own full testimony, and not rely on borrowed light. It is not easy. And I hope we can speak up more, and local levels, about correct doctrine.
With president Nelson and president Oaks, We don’t have to worry about the law being lost :-). But local leaders need to stick with what’s right and wrong. On another note, I believe we need to hear more hopeful messages about Christ now, than ever. People are in despair, and many people feel hopeless. Some more uplifting messages have been given in response.
Maybe it’s an American thing but I can’t get over being told to be a “good global citizen “.
Jesus already told us to be "good global citizens". Not sure what you mean though? There is a distinct difference between what Jesus taught and what some corrupt people want as far as being "good global citizens" are. Just got to focus on what Jesus taught.
@@elk2804 really? What verse?
@@stephaniewilliamson4611 Likely the do unto others thing.
The teacher is always silent during the test.
Great reply!
That hit home really hard.
The church leadership arent silent...they are supporting evil ans new world order
We have been taught, we have been warned, the second coming is near. What did President Nelson tell us we needed to have if we were to survive? Yes, I agree the test has started.
I needed to hear this today. I feel so disheartened by what I see around me and the lack there of. Maybe the silence is the test.
Honestly, I have to go back and listen to talks from the past if I really want to gain strength and support. Only the occasional talk addresses the massive elephants in the room we are dealing with in today's world. It is very disheartening.
Me too! I also listen to black pastors and preachers. They aren't afraid to preachers the word!
I think President Nelson‘s talks only get better each time he addresses the church. They are prophetic and spot on with what the members need to be doing.
I agree and I use the old or Vintage LDS books.
@ Sure, but he is often vague where specificity would be appreciated. They need to be using words and concepts we are all dealing with so there is no ambiguity on things. They should be hammering against the gender and rainbow nonsense more forcefully. Too much cultural ground has been ceded.
I have to disagree that the current talks don't address current issues.
During 2019-2020, I was prompted to start studying the House of Israel, the Second Coming of Jesus Christ, and the church's role in both of those things. What I studied (and the events that have transpired since then) have only bolstered my testimony that God is leading this church through his servants, the Prophets. It seems to me that many faithful LDS are still stuck in the mode of only talking about the Second Coming as this kind of ominous blob that has yet to arrive. When President Nelson took the helm, he seriously started putting the church's money where its mouth is in actually acting like Jesus Christ's return is imminent. He's not the type that says "Christ could come any day now, we don't know when so be prepared just in case". He's the kind of prophet that is seeing the light at the end of the tunnel through the thick darkness, not just hinting that it's inevitably going to come.
My point is that I dont think many members of the church are used to that way of acting and thinking, and so when something is done or said that seems contrary to the explicit mission of the church, we are confused because we cannot see around corners. It is my view that public decisions in the church (even some I might disagree with) are tactical ways to give its members more time to prepare before the world sees greater darkness and the final destruction. Sometimes it might be to "fly under the radar" of potentially hostile government entities. Sometimes it might be an act of prudence, to be "wise as serpents and innocent as doves".
In any case, I highly recommend that any member of the church seriously study eveything they can about the Second Coming. Lots of untrue things are out there, but ask for the gift of discernmment. It may just surprise you when you understand how close we really are (and why the Q15 are so urgently bringing the message up now, more than ever).
Excellent comment. Thank you. I agree!
Exactly, thank you!
Church talks and lessons feel empty and uninspiring. Especially the ones where we have to endure their resumes of life success.
Someone mentioned how things seem weaker since Come Follow Me started. I agree. We try to teach the hard things at home but it doesn’t feel supported by the church. Like, our kids don’t go to church and hear that what their parents are teaching is true. Instead the church looks relaxed and standing for nothing but self esteem, and mom and dad look extreme. I asked my daughter if she learns about temple marriage in young women’s. She said never. My sister’s family became Greek Orthodox. Her husband was once a bishop! There is so much richness in their religion. I’m not going to leave the church, but I long for what church felt like in the 1980’s and what it seems like my sister’s family is experiencing now.
Greek Orthodox? Are they of Greek descent? That is very unusual, if not. My former in laws are Greek Orthodox so I was around that religion a lot over 25 years. I've never met non-Greeks (other than spouses of Greeks) in that religion. I wonder why they didn't go with general Eastern Orthodox, which is a very appealing religion for those who crave sacred symbols, structure, etc.
I will be the lone wolf here to defend CFM (the principle of it, not curriculum), I do CFM every week, with my sons, over the years between myself and my husband, we have found very little participation from families/individuals doing any form of rigorous scripture study. The idea behind CFM is awesome! I love it, I live it! whether that be CFM curriculum or custom made. People are lazy. Laziness is the dominant problem. Let's get people involved, then let's focus on the CFM curriculum.
I’m Greek went to the Greek church, my whole youth and the LDS church. I love the orthodox religion. The only thing they don’t have is the priesthood for temple ordinances but they got everything else and I think they’re fantastic.
@@stephaniewilliamson4611 The thing is, we were ALREADY supposed to be doing CFM before there was ever a CFM. We were told to study the scriptures as a family. That is what CFM is. Same with ministering. Visiting and home teaching were always supposed to be like they are now. But since no one was doing either of these things the way they were supposed to be they had to repackage it and call it something else to get it through people's thick skulls. Ministering doesn't not feel any different to me from Visiting teaching because I was already doing this. So really if people were doing daily/weekly scripture study with their kids, CFM shouldn't be a change to what they were doing.
@@danascully7358 thank you for reiterating my point, the dominant problem here is laziness. People don't want to be involved at any level. Hard to build a kingdom when people don't really want to be kingdom workers.
2 Timothy 4 came to mind
Maybe our leaders have been commanded not to speak about these things because so many people are rejecting truth and turning away from God?
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
That's a part of it, yes
The Church has set the standard. It's time for parents and family to step up and start teaching correct principles in the home. We talk about these things all of the time in our home. Our children understand what we support as a family and what we do not support.
One reason we don't discuss these things in church is because of all the people in the ward that get offended when you bring them up.
What about new converts in the church who dont get anything out of church to take home to their kids.
I think what is actually happening is a larger number, (including leadership) are becoming more sympathetic to certain worldly ideologies, and they don't want to rock the boat in an attempt to keep as many people on board. It seems the main concern of leadership is to not inadvertently disaffect a large portion of the members by taking a stance on divisive subjects one way or another.
@@sotl97 As a grandmother now, having grown up in the church and hearing all the HARDBALL MESSAGES delivered over the pulpit my whole life to help keep me on the covenant path I can somewhat agree with you on a few things. But.. there is an old saying, "It takes a village to raise a child". As children grow into teenagers they tend to TUNE OUT their parents to worldly distractions & peer pressure. It has always been a comfort to know the church was also delivering the same HARDBALL messages as the parent in the home to their primary classes, or by Sunday school teachers & mutual leaders. My grandchildren...now live in a more wicked world than I myself experienced and the safety net of their church leaders now NOT confirming or defining what the social pitfalls that will trap them in the mists of darkness is very distressing to me. My grandchildren need to hear the same HARDBALL MESSAGES drop from the pulpit & by their leaders. To give an example, I was a mutual leader in 2018. We were encouraged to get close and form close friendships with our girls so that if they didn't feel comfortable talking with parents at home they could come to us. As a leader I found out that a few girls were sexting with boys in their school classes. I was NOT allowed to chat about this situation with them...only to love them. Idk maybe it was just me...but I felt like total failure of leader not to warn these girls of the dangerous waters they were excitedly swimming in and how vulgar their behavior was becoming 😔
@actuallywhatimeant2583 become their true friend and help them. Know that as you do your best, you can know that our Saviour will help with the rest.
My personal opinion is that the Church has been on a PR tour as of late. They are trying not to offend anyone and to look more accepting of everyone. I believe it’s one of the reasons folks are leaving the Church in droves. It’s the born and bred members who are leaving. They feel betrayed.
My husband is a recent convert, and I'm a lifelong member. He is impressed on the family values and how Jesus is central in all things, however has major issues with the church not stepping in to correct or standup to issues of the day. He doesn't understand how our church has so many leaders, yet he has to wait until conference or by chance run into a video on social media to hear from them. It'd be nice to have clear answers, even if they are simply pointing to scripture or reiterating standards and values.
There are messages in the church magazines every month.
@@donnahuntwork3086
We need the messages from the pulpit!
Thats funny taht he says that. I think quite often how they are EVERYWHERE. Church magazines, all over social media, the church's website, books, gen conference.
I'm sure as most of you have noticed, the Church leaders have moved away from having members "check boxes". I grew up at a time when all the young men goals were lists in the Boy Scouts and Priesthood that when completed, we got an award. That is gone. The youth, and the Church in general, is taught to seek the Spirit and make decisions by inspiration. It takes more effort, involvement and righteousness on a personal level. We are being taught to follow Christ through our own personal relationship with Him with the Church's help. If the Church leaders are always telling us how we should think, we're not necessarily developing that. When the Church members who follow Christ through the Spirit come to consensus on something, everyone else will be left behind.
I think check boxes helped a lot of people especially the youth. Not all of them are self motivated to do it all on their own. Our YM program has drifted aimlessly since removing those check boxes.
Yep!
Do you mean checkboxes like 1) support the Church's efforts to overthrow the Federal Protection of the Famliy laws? or 2) Support the Church's push to make it illegal for residences or business to make decisions for themselves about how to deal with these issues without the government's involvement? or 3) You need to be vaxed to attend BYU Idaho. What do you think of these check boxes?
@@JeffTankerSr you don’t have to be vaxed to go to BYU-I. I served from there from 2018-2023 right through Covid and have kids going there now and they don’t require it and never did.
Do you have youth currently? the new youth program is so open ended it's doing nothing for more than a few youth. It's completely unstructured, a total pendulum swing from what came before. It went too far. And now an entire cohort has gone through it and I don't think they are nearly as prepared as previous generations.
Has anyone thought through the implications of being an international church. What could multiple other countries do if we look like we are promoting going against their governments. In the 90s we changed to a totally international entity
Morality isn't geographically dependent.
These are times when remembering that God is INFINITELY more powerful than any government is really important.
I trust the presidency of the Church is led by God. He knows exactly how this all plays out, through the entire thing. We are just in the moment, which is scarier.
That explains well the flaccid nature of General Conference, and other international addresses, but it doesn't address the lack of boldness at the local level. Apostles and Seventies visit all over and could address the issues that confront saints in the different political and social environments in which they find themselves. Indeed, that is what it seems Paul did actively. We get constant double speak. A constant and relatively unchanging message from the Apostles, and then actions that are in opposition to the very thing they were preaching. Local leaders acting with impunity, making allowances, and promoting or permitting all manner of apostasy among their flock. It indicates that some of the Apostles have lost the reigns and perhaps some of the Seventies, who they have called, are turncoats and Gadiantons.
@@TheYgdsflaccid? Have you listen to Elder Bednar, lately? He’s bold. But he often speaks in parables.
@@sarahaas183 Compared to Apostles from the 60s and 70s....yes, flaccid. Even Holland and Bednar, who are probably our boldest, don't prophesy about atomic holocausts and the path to salvation through conformity and rigid obedience to the commandments.
Wow Greg. It just feels like you read my mind. I am puzzled by this as well. I pray but I think with a church established in the earth with such a vast leadership structure and hierarchy shouldn’t I be allowed to ask the questions you are asking. I grew up with a completely different leadership and messaging on current social and wicked issues. Now I cannot get an answer. I will never be allowed to have access to or ask a question to the leadership. Local leaders cannot answer the question but just have faith. It is puzzling why the radio silence from the brethren. I would appreciate a message addressing this and simply to say they will no longer address current issues because of XYZ.
The answer is Revelation 13:4-7. He(the beast) is given power over the saints. The beast from the sea is the legal system that runs the world today.(Maritime law, or corporate law.) as opposed to common law or constitutional law. You have to be familiar with the articles of faith.(it’s like the churches code of conduct.) states that our purpose is to preach faith, repentance, and baptism and gift to the Holy Ghost and that we believe in being “subject.” so if the church spoke against the beast or against the bad rules that it’s given, it would lose its ability to preach the gospel and to build temples, which are the two directives that the woman has prior to the wedding feast. The woman the church cannot save itself. That is why the groom the savior comes! not understanding this is the catalyst for the division between the wheat and the tares! And only the Saints who buy revelation refused to adopt the laws of the beast or the jab so to speak (that was a test). Will begin to be truly persecuted, and that brings the great destruction which frees us from the laws (subjection) of men (the beast)
"Watchman, what of the night?"
"For if the trumpet makes an uncertain sound, who will prepare for battle?" 1st Cor. 14:8
Perfect
Yes!
The certain sound of the trumpet has been made. Are we preparing/prepared for battle, or not?
Very well said. This is the elephant in the room. President Hinckley wrote the book Standing for Something. Not happening… And our youth are the most vulnerable.
@@KippChurch-z1d I don't think they are scared at all. They know so much more than you and I. We need to have so much more faith that God is in charge and what we hear from conference is what needs to be said. I don't always understand why things are the way they are, but I know P. Nelson sees way more than he can share. Be thankful you don't have the weight of the world on your shoulders
Fornicating is very much a given in the world and no doubt amongst so many LDS folk who exit the Church in their teens. Hearing leaders ever speak out about this nowadays, or even start disciplinary counsels to try and win back so many youth would no doubt not be received well inside and out of the Church, and as always, the lame stream legacy media would no doubt have a field day!!
Im a converted. I don't like what I'm seeing at the church. The message of Jesus and God is weakening. The members are afraid to talk. I don't feel I belong anymore. Thanks for posting this, you're not alone.
Exactly!
Exactly. I am sorry this is happening.
As the beast kingdom rises the saints will be asked to be patient…. You find that in Rev. trust God is at the helm
Me too, but I’m hanging in there. The BoM is true scripture. The Lord only has imperfect men to run his church. The corporate sector of the church has way too much influence. IMO
My missionary kids (I had 7) fill their missions and now grandkids were harassed to get vaxxed. Some fell to the pressure and have regrets What happened to free agency. Know who you are and where you stand. Learn and grow in faith.
Then you will sift yourself out. Either the church is true or it's not. If you don't have a testimony about the authority of this church from God through His Priesthood then go down the road and find a different church, what's the difference? But I stay because I have done the spiritual work. I know this church is the only true church with the priesthood authority of God that seals me to Him exactly like in the book of Revelation. So you need to discern WHY you are a member. Is it a social club or is it the only true church on earth?
I always thought the church did explain its new direction, starting with the raising of the bar. I've viewed it as we had training wheels with all the previous instructions and manuals, and slowly the church has been pushing us to learn how to take control of our own salvation and our families. It's been slowly removing the boundries that locked us in place and we were to take what we learned and go.
We have our phones, computers, and free access to the church literature. We can search, ponder, and pray about everything. It is all at our fingertips. The church has been preparing the members what to do and now wants us to go and do. As long as we have religious freedom we can be free to go and do.
All through the BOM the prophets are not only telling and warning the righteous people about the mistakes society is making but they are also going out and directly telling the people making the wrong choices that they are making bad choices and the consequences those choices will bring. Noah, Lehi, Nephi, Alma, Mormon, Moroni, Samuel the Lamenite, Ether, and all the others directly spoke to society about the mistakes they were making and the consequences of those mistakes. That’s why most of them were cast out. I can’t imagine that the responsibility has changed in our day which is frustrating at times to see that’s there’s not more direct counsel given.
You answered yourself. They were cast out or worse.... 🤷♀️ So it makes complete sense God is the One holding them back. God is saying it's not time yet. Have you not heard President Nelson talk about time is running out? A shift is coming. People think it's the Second Coming but I'm not so sure.
@ all the ancient prophets knew the consequences of preaching but Heavenly Father still had them do it and protected some as they did. I have no problem with the church or our Prophets, they are great and share great wisdom, counsel and revelation! It’s just hard sometimes when we are standing against a whirlwind of societal issues and it feels like we are kinda on our own sometimes with some of the things not being said by leaders.
@mattbitter4432 dig deeper. Ask God. Follow what President Nelson has said. Do the WORK! We are not anchorless! We have been given everything we need. Utilize it!
@@mattbitter4432 and remember, we are in unprecedented times. God's ways are higher than ours. We are being tested above all things, this IS a test.
@ oh I know where I stand on these issues, that’s not a problem, the frustration is there any backup to point to when I’m teaching and talking to people about these big issues in society or they come up in EQ/RS. How do local leaders stand against some of these issues if there isn’t good solid backup?
Agreed! I myself have been baffled by the Church's softball approach on subjects that are literally tearing our families apart. My youth in the church was very different with clear messages of warnings to keep me on the covenant path. I still remember the old saying "It takes a village to raise a child". Parents could count on primary & Sunday school & mutual to help deliver the same hardball ...not softball ...warning messages when the children became teenagers and began to tune out on their parents or family home evenings. Thank you so much for addressing this. I've been made to feel like a decentor for asking these questions and it hurts 😢.
My Dad and I have thought for years it is the tax status threat from the federal government that has to be suppressing the issue-specific alarms and warnings. Thanks for using your platform to discuss. Please stay on this.
And as a result, we are hiding our assets in building more temples.
If the church isn't addressing these issues because of the chance of losing tax exempt status, then Shame On The Church. $$ is not worth not leading....I'm not going inactive, but i need to see our leaders stand for The Savior and His teachings....Yes they are wanting us to be able to "stand on our own", but showing that "they" are following/teaching Christ would be a good beginning. I admire some of tlhe churches my non-member family (nieces/nephews) attend that are not afraid of the government, or anyone else.
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I agree. I live in the US South. There are many sects that seem to be following God's will more than us because they are standing for righteousness in the face of the very destruction of the family. I don't think our smiles and shunning of tea will impress people who correctly see that Satan is destroying the family.
Go there then. But can they seal you by the Priesthood of God? They cannot. You must decide if you want a social club and a church that fits your bias or you want the true and living Christ with a two edged sword of truth? I want the Truth. And the truth is, God loves and calls for all His children. Those with eyes to see and ears to hear will understand what is happening. Read, pray, ask God. He will tell you.
What a cold-hearted statement, Tiffany. Shame on you! @@tiffanyseavy565
Not only losing its tax exempt status but potentially being "De-Banked" if they dont conform to the liberal left. Many rich conservative business owners have been de-banked, look it up.
Is there a follow up on the BYU professor who tore up the Family Proclamation?
I would like to know also
@@zeldahenderson2090 me too!
My guess is nothing happened, BYU likely just ignored it like they do every other apostate/wordly belief being taught down there by faculty.
Yes, it absolutely is a muzzle. But so is the church's desire to be accepted and praised by the world.
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I'm not sure that is true by any means. We are a worldwide church and our call is to preach the gospel. We are to love others and serve as Christ did. We would not be fulfilling our calling if we didn't open our hearts to others. We may not agree with what the Brethren are doing, but we also don't receive revelation for the church or the world. We are responsible for our personal actions and our relationship with Christ.
But the church doesn't want to be praised by the world. 😠It wants to be praised by Christ😇
It’s called peer pressure. It’s not just the youth that struggle with this trap.
I often find myself longing for bold clarity on the issues of today. In the church we often state that "the family is under attack," but we rarely go into detail on exactly HOW it is being attacked. I guess such a discussion would probably offend too many people. Though the radio silence, vagueness, and obscurity on many of the social issues of today frustrates me, I think the wheat and the tares are simply being allowed to grow together before the harvest. The reckoning will come, and probably sooner than later in my opinion. "Behold, vengeance cometh speedily... and upon my house shall it begin, and from my house shall it go forth, saith the Lord" D&C 112: 24-25
@@127AFS Phoenix 2040 Jason Breshesrs is the great and mighty man who has validated the creator of the LDS temple endowment.
If we study scripture, and listen to the words of the prophets echo throughout the past two centuries, it should not, and is not confusing.
But I can understand what you are saying. Maybe, especially for the youth, some clarifications need to be made. But I also know there are reasons why the prophers are speaking more and more in parables, over the pulpit. For those with eyes to see and ears to hear, you can hear what Elder Bednar and others are saying, quite clearly and boldly.
@@127AFS amen
But we shouldn't need to be told. We are supposed to receive personal revelation ourselves and rely on the Spirit in our lives to guide us. We should depend on that instead of the brethren for everything. Go to my comments, I explain more.
@@agldlfeYes, personal revelation is definitely important. We shouldn’t have to be commanded in ALL things. That being said, the Brethren are there warn and to receive revelation in certain matters related to salvation and the regulation of the church. It is really hard to see so many members, including those in leadership and the church education system, walking in complete confusion on what you think would be basic gospel doctrines. I don’t feel like it’s my job to call them out. If no one does though the confusion will just continue to spread. This trajectory is unsustainable. As alluded to previously, I’d wager that a major division or schism is forthcoming.
“Silence in the face of evil is itself evil: God will not hold us guiltless!”
Makes me think of these word's. I have been confused for year's on why the wokeness at BYU has been allowed and continues, why a major housecleaning has not taken place. Sad..
God's time, not man's
I have been very curious about that as well. The gay young man who gave the commencement speech is the son of a couple in my ward. The father was very torn on how to handle that. He loves his son deeply but doesn't like what he's doing and it has gotten far worse since then.
The Lord allows the wheat and the tares to grow together.
This is exactly the same subject that was discussed at my family’s Thanksgiving. This was perfect to articulate my frustration with the Church that my family just wasn’t getting. It was frustrating and is.
Sounds like you have a myopic view of things.
@ wow! Really? Kind of judgmental and jerky!! Nothing of intelligence to add except but call someone as low IQ? Yep, sounds like the basement is getting tiring for you huh?
The explanation of the Bretheren trying to get us to be more spiritually independent baffles me. A huge selling point for our church has always been modern revelation through priesthood-bearing leaders to steer us through the unique challenges of the present day, and boy, do we need it now.
Totally agree!!
I totally agree. We are supposed to tell converts "join our Church. Because then you can receive guidance for youself. And, just so you know, 1/3 of our ward received a different guidance than I did?"
I see it a little different. To me it's the end of the 20 years of silence. My opinion is The Proclamation to the World: The Family was a marker for the beginning of the end, the final warning.
President Nelson has given us exactly what we need from his first Sunday as the President and head prophet. There is no more hand holding as we were told exactly what to do in April 2018.
Yes, the “more spiritually independent” argument is pure cope.
Either we’re truly sliding leftward or we’re too afraid to clearly speak truth. I’m not sure which is worse.
@@ClintThomsensliding leftward?? You still believe the political right and left are righteous vs evil?? You are really lost if so.
I have felt like time truly is running out, and with what little time they have to say what they need to say, they are saying exactly what they are supposed to tell us, right now. We are no longer in the 80s and 90s. We are in the last hour. I can feel it in my bones. We need to already be doing the things that we are supposed to be doing, so that we can be prepared for what’s next. I feel the responsibility on my shoulders, to do “come, follow me“ at home. And make sure I’m teaching the gospel to my kids. I often fail or act like I don’t have time. And I must repent of that. Because I know That somethings shifted in 2020, and the gospel needs to be enforced in the home whenever and wherever possible. It is not easy. The adversary makes us feel as if we don’t have time or energy for it. Every day.
Ive read a lot of the comments. I agree with many. The people in the church Im so concerned with, are the youth and young adults. I don’t think they are established enough to seek out correct answers. Im sure a few may, but very few. They are the ones that need help with the social questions. I feel they are lost and need guidance. The world is shouting at them so loud, they cant hear much else. For their sake I wish more social topics were stated from the pulpit. Just my own opinion.
It wouldn't be so bad if there wasn't factions within the bureaucracy of the Church that actively work at counter purposes to maintaining our standards and cultural autonomy. The fact that people like Julie Hanks, who is a rather public, but not a rare example of the sort of rot among the intermountain west membership, remains undisciplined, is a sign that somebody has lost the reigns. We went from Elder McConkie boldly prophesying of the "atomic holocaust that shall surely come" to vague semi-prophesies buried under all manner of obfuscation so as not to sound alarmist. The world is reeling at the moment, and our Apostles can only speak in vague generalities. Elder Bednar is the final Apostle that impresses me. He seems to be the only one who is bold and brash enough to speak against the nonsense we're facing. I admire him for confronting the dangers of AI, and for his October General Conference talk this year on pride. Yet still, he had to dodge that one term, we just keep on dodging in our materials, "secret combinations". There is no surer sign that secret combinations have gotten above us than when the Apostles dare not call them out when they are plainly manifested.
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Right on.
And yet, didn't Elder Bednar say he USES A.I. to help smooth out his talks?
How about just using the Holy Spirit, instead?
Bro. Holland still speaks up too
Amen!
The Lord is the one in charge, and I trust Hm completely.. I remember a quote a long time ago "“You may not like what comes from the authority of the Church. It may conflict with your political views. It may contradict your social views. It may interfere with some of your social life. … Your safety and ours depends upon whether or not we follow. … Let’s keep our eye on the President of the Church.”" President Harold B. Lee
The Nemenhah Record
23. And in this thing did the Lord teach us all a great lesson. It is true that the Lord does call out Prophets from among the people. But, let not any people begin in the belief that the calling out makes a man not a man. The Prophet of God is given great gifts of the Spirit. Yea, he may speak with the tongues of Angels and with them, and, if he has the gift of the seer, he may translate strange languages. And behold, the Prophet leads and guides the people in the will and work of the Lord also. But, know this all you who read these things and ponder them in your hearts, the Prophet is fallible. He is not perfect, and his counsels are not perfect. And, though we count ourselves blessed because the Lord does see fit to call and raise up unto us His Prophets, it is because He does this that we feel constrained to subject all things unto the confirmation of the Holy Ghost, howbeit even the words of a Prophet. 24. Behold, the Lord has spoken it: Thou shalt have no other Gods before me. Wherefore, make not gods of your Prophets! For they will be false gods and idols. For, even if they be called of God and appointed, yea, even if they be anointed by the very finger of God, they are yet simple men and you will have made unto yourselves gods that shall fall. For there are but few men unto whom the Lord has given power over death, and they are Ayohahn his beloved Apostle, and Nayfee, Layee, and Tsimohthih (Timothy), who were brothers and among the twelve He chose when He came to the people gathered about the temple in the Hit- ah-yet-noht Pah. But all others shall fall by the shaft of death, just as you and I must likewise fall. And when we fall, our bodies shall go back into the earth, as with all living things. And, notwithstanding our spirits live on, in accordance with that great covenant and plan by which this world was created, yet are we corruptible, and yet does the idol rust and the rot take us. Wherefore, when you make gods of the servants of God, you cast their ashes in His face. Will he hold you sinless in this? 25. I say unto you, He will hold you accountable. For, has He not commanded each of us to pray always? And does this not also apply to every word that has proceeded out of the mouths of the Prophets? For, I ask you, how know you that I ever lived? Now, I write this unto my own descendents. Wherefore, I desire that you have a remembrance of me and of my doing. But, how know you that these writings truly come to you from me, my children? No man may confirm it. It is only by the confirmation of the Holy Ghost that you may know that I truly wrote these things unto you. And behold, it is by that power which the Holy Ghost possesses that you may have all knowledge, for, it is by that power that the Sahnhempeht (Christ) did take upon Himself all things. And it is by that same power that He may give the same to us. Yea, it is by that power that all things may be brought to our remembrance, both those things which we sometime knew of our own conscience and experience, as well as all things known because of the experiences of others. Yea, even all that the Father has may be given to us by this same power. 26. Wherefore, why seek we to make all things sure by the voice and word of men? There is but one way to know of a surety that a thing is true, whether spoken by a man or men, or by a Prophet, or by an Angel, or even by the very voice of Sahnhempeht (Christ) Himself! Yea, I make so bold as to say that I would gladly speak face to face with God, and hold myself blessed in every way. But behold, having thus communed in a most holy way, I would retire to my chamber, and bend my knee and my will, and ask most humbly that the Holy Ghost might confirm the thing unto my soul. 27. Does this sound ill? To some it may speak of doubt. But, I shall importune the Lord in this thing, for He has commanded it. And I would rather He be importuned than that His anger be kindled against me. 28. Yea, for behold, even the elect shall be deceived. Even the Prophets of God may act and speak betimes as men and fathers sometimes do out of the earthy and carnal concerns of their hearts. Yea, what man does not feel strongly the needs and responsibilities of his stewardship? Do not expect them to be any different than yourselves, and, if the Lord does allow men to be fallible and to err, but to repent, so much more ought you to allow the same. Wherefore, the Lord has counseled us: Judge not. For with that same judgment wherewith you judge, so too shall you be judged also. 29. Behold, I say unto you who shall receive these things and ponder them, You shall live in a time when men do seek to elevate the Prophets unto that status wherein they may speak no error nor act in any mean thing. This is a great pitfall to the righteous. For, such men shall make regulations that begin to deny the right of every son or daughter of God to seek the confirmation of the Holy Ghost. Yea, in your day, if a man hears the words of some Prophet and, seeking the confirmation of the Holy Ghost, fails to receive it, but receives instead a witness that the utterance is false or misguided, behold, he shall be brought up before the counsels and he shall be persecuted for having received such a witness. And they shall scourge him bitterly with their words and shall even cast him out from among them.
I’ve been a CPA for many years, just because an organization is tax exempt doesn’t mean that they don’t pay taxes. The church pays a ton of taxes on their unrelated business taxable income. Any charitable organization is required to pay tax on UBTI.
That's another thing that many people forget. There is a business side to the church that pays taxes, and there is the tax-exempt side that doesn't. I think that the OP makes a valid point that if the church leaders talk about certain things as the Prophet and apostles to the members of the church relative to the principals by which they should be living, there could be a grey area where they tax-exempt side then loses that exemption.
@@daverome1142 Dave, no one was making a point that there are no taxes paid on for-profit activities. You know well the issue is that the 501 C3 side, which is where massive amounts of donations come through, does have to maintain a delicate balance limiting the proportion of their activities that could be considered political in order to maintain tax exempt status. For-profit activities are inconsequential for that consideration.
@daverome1142: That is true, but more than a bit obfuscative. The fact that there is an element to overall church operations that pays taxes-even a large amount-doesn't change the fact that it is, in fact, tax exempt and that exemption shields it from an enormous tax burden, one that most organizations would self-censor for the sake of avoiding. In other words, nobody is saying the church doesn't pay taxes. We're saying it is 501c3 tax exempt, which it is, and therefore the leaders are not saying the things that so many members-myself included-think that they should say and would otherwise say.
If today's members feel "anchorless" they aren't studying enough. You're right, there's a good reason we don't have the same spelled out messages as we did before. If you study the general conference talks you will learn this was always coming. President Nelson was not the first president to tell us future spiritual survival depends on the Holy Spirit. People really need to study the gospel as a whole and not just President Benson's or gospel hobbies.
nelson is a liar and only said that to sound cool and inspired.....
even his last conference talk had a huge lie about hin nearly dying and having a gun held to his head that never happened...same as his plane near death story and many other stories he has blown up
Tiffanyseavy556 … This is so so true!!!! Yes!!! President Nelson has been telling us to be in tune and only those who are in tune will survive spiritually in the latter days!!!!
There is freedom of speech. Contention is of the devil and the minute we start to argue and fight, Satan takes over.
@wufflerdance9481 you're obviously the liar here
@@wufflerdance9481
Easy to look up. I remember when this happened. Here is an article about it. 2009
An official Church Statement says: "On Friday evening they were having dinner together in the mission president's home when armed assailants entered the home and robbed them. We don't have complete information yet, but we understand that Sister Packard's arm was broken. In addition, she and others suffered some superficial injuries, mainly cuts and bruises. Elder and Sister Nelson will continue their assignment over the weekend as planned."
Like you, I’d be very disappointed if it is to protect the tax exempt status. I am joyful in paying tithing, but my joy in paying it would be greater if it meant a muzzle-less church on current social and cultural issues. The words to the hymn “do what is right let the consequence follow” come to mind.
Liberal Governments are taking every opportunity to silence anyone who is against their woke agenda. Losing tax exempt status or even De-Banking is a threat to all churches as some of the wealthy conservative companies have already found out, look it up.
I think it’s the Temple that we don’t want to lose; tax exemption will weed out more people if it goes away and they have to do without that exemption, but it won’t matter to the faithful. Losing the temples, or having to shut them down, would be a huge problem for salvation. They were already closed for a year, and if gov makes laws to change what we are allowed to do, then leaders will close them rather than desecrate them. I do believe it would all be worked out during the Millennium, so we really should not be too worried about this. I will be sad if it happens, but it would be only for a short time.
Absolutely. We are supposed to be teaching these standards to our families. It's not the church's job it's parents job. I know what's right and wrong. Listening to the spirit makes it obvious. I don't need the church to tell me LBGT is against our covenants or that vile music is not good for youth or that scamming welfare system of church is wrong or that abortion is unacceptable to Christ. I know it and will stand up for my standards.
I am not unanchored after 60 years.
Maybe you’re good to go, but us parents of young people here in the front lines disagree. They need that clarity from leadership to reinforce what we say.
Also if possible, I suggest taking them to the Sacred Grove in Palmyra, NY. It is like walking into a temple. I have seen so many youth feel the Lord there, some in extraordinary ways. I was converted by the First Vision when 16. There is spiritual power in that incredible event.
New members need CLEAR guidance. You can't teach your children or others what you don't understand. When I joined the brethren were very clear and I needed that. Tax status? Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's. Pay the tax and preach the gospel.
💯
But that's where the ward members come in. It's our job to support and teach and do so clearly.
@@BradKandyCroftFamily until the next covid like crisis comes along and those new members are left to their own devices like they were 4 years ago. The entire covid response was a dereliction of duty.
Wait don’t we still have the scriptures, the whole lds library, conference addresses and the handbook? We still have a lot of help
Here on UA-cam you can see videos of the Twelve and First Presidency talking and teaching about every topic under the sun, recently!
I think that they kind of already did let us know in a way, because they did a change with how long church is, and they said that teaching needs to be in the home and the church will support with classes and talks, etc. But the nitty gritty stuff in society is really up to us to see and understand. It's up to us to grow up now in the Lord and not depend so much on having our hands held by the leaders. I can't speak for the Lord but it seems obvious that He wants us to learn things on our own, to discern what is happening and what we need to be on our guard for. It is our responsibility to receive revelation and to know what the Lord wants for us, what evils and harms are in society and what we should do about it and what we should teach our children. We really have been told. We need to get out of Babylon and spend more time with spiritual things and with the Lord, developing the ability ourselves to hear what He is saying. I just think we need to do less dependency on the brethren and depend more on the Spirit in our lives. It's time to sift between those who want to hear the Lord through the Spirit and those who don't.
This is exactly what the pro-LGBTQ person said in my ward to the youth. He said the scriptures were praising people who were allies of LGBTQ people.
Yes yes I’ve learned more the past 4 years because I took it seriously that it’s all up to us. The Lord has taught and now is the harvest time to see what we have. Not much time left to see who will pass the test.
@cherri312 Yep, I have spent a lot more time in the scriptures and I have learned so much more in the last few years also. I'm so much closer to the Spirit and able to discern things going on in society better. It's sad to see many people not getting the message that we shouldn't rely on the brethren to spell everything out for us and that the teacher won't hold our hand and give answers while we are taking the test. When we feel alone and the answers aren't coming, we are in the testing room to see what we'll do. Thanks for your comment.
@@cherri312Same. I took CFM seriously, since 2019 my family has been rigorously studying the scriptures. Even though church is two hours we have third hour at home and that when we do CFM.
@@agldlfeI agree with your sentiment totally. I just want to add, if people would actually study and stop going to church looking to feel the vibes, just think how much more fulfilling and productive our classes and sacrament meetings would be........
If one is listening to the prophets, being obedient to the tenants of the gospel and living worthy or the spirit you KNOW when you’re hearing truth and you will KNOW which way to live without every thing being spelled out constantly. Pres Nelson and others have been very clear to me with encouraging us to live a certain way. As a parent and grandparent the challenge is to live correctly and to give the correct example in the ways to conduct ourselves and take the opportunity to speak about it as well. We should KNOW what is correct without a leader having to remind us constantly. If we don’t then we are not allowing the spirit to teach us truth.
Greg, great episode--short and to the points. Here are a some other possible reasons why the church has backed off so much and risks it is exposing itself to:
* reason: the fear of men (e.g., losing tax exempt status),
* reason: the Lord told them to back off, such as we saw w/Alma when Amulek wanted to draw down the powers of heaven on the wicked,
* risk of appearing like the the Lord is not revealing His will to His servants, the prophets, resulting in the hearts of many failing them,
* risk of the trumpet giving an uncertain sound resulting in members not hearkening or knowing what to say or do--like those we envision at the Tower of Babel,
* risk of appearing weak and afraid (exposing) the fear of men,
* risk of showing that maybe there is a time to "falter in defending truth and right"
* risk of showing we'll pass with the "Onward Christian soldiers" spirit for now.
* risk of disobeying the commandment to "say nothing but repentance" (but they still do tell our close group of members to repent)
* risk of not being a light of the world or of not being a leaven or of not being salt of the earth
* risk of being cowardly while other very, very few Christian ministers are calling the world to repentance (Franklin Graham and who else?)
It is reasonable to assume that Pres' Benson would have spoken out, likely despite the risk of losing the tax-exempt status. Maybe that's why he's not around.
Capt' Moroni would not have done well, right? Would he have been muzzled, too?
It is sad--but I'd hope they have God's blessings w/going quiet on social issues. That said, thank goodness for Trump who has spoken up for US values we used to speak up for, also, though we quietly say a little about freedom of religion.
I thought I was losing my mind... Thank you
I feel we don’t as President Hinckley taught us to stand for truth and righteousness anymore. Ever since Covid is seems we are bowing down to the elites. I love the gospel and I would never leave but it does concern me.
If trends continue, the Federal government will collapse long before the church needs to end its 501C3 status. The number of years we have left with relative economic and social stability can be counted on one hand.
"Home centered and church supported"
Seems clear to me - they are trying to invite the world to come to Christ. They don't want to drive people away.
Note, Christ was in the Temple MANY times before he decided to turn over tables and kick out the sellers.
Liberal Governments are taking every opportunity to silence anyone who is against their woke agenda. Losing tax exempt status or even De-Banking is a threat to all churches as some of the wealthy conservative companies have already found out, look it up.
With the election of Trump and appointment of his team, seems the pendulum is swinging against wokeness and censorship. Perhaps we will see like changes in the Church? I wonder. Meanwhile, here in rural Missouri, topics like abortion and latter-day Gadiantons are rather freely discussed already.
My thoughts on this is.The church is now a worldwide church and they need to appeal to all the members of the church not just those in America with social our problems.
I don’t like Church today. I go to Sacrament so I can partake, try not to be in the way, I am a widow, only 63, and I have a ton of kids, many who have lost their way. I homeschooled them all many have gone on to College and University a lot have graduated, yet I feel like I still didn’t do enough. We read the Book of Mormon everyday, had devotional, but now it seems like everything keeps changing rapidly, and I almost feel like the doctrine is changing. And. With all the temple changes, wow! 😢
You are doing great. Faith alone, Grace alone and the Word alone saves us. Our works do not save us. Take comfort ❤.
Keep going to the temple!!! Ask God to teach you!! He has taught me personally so much! Just like President Nelson SAID!
I personally love the changes that have been made in the temple ceremony. I feel like the main teachings are all in tact and we can get more people endowed in less time. There is a lot of work to be done and if we can be more efficient in getting it done, we will be more prepared for the 2nd coming.
The LDS God never changes...until he does.
Keep serving in the temple. The temple changes amplify the meaning of the Atonement of Jesus Christ and our covenant relationship with him. Encourage your bishopric to teach more about Jesus Christ and about living the (Abrahamic) covenants. The doctrine is not changing but becoming increasingly clarified to focus more upon the Savior and his complete word.
I hear what you are saying and I have wrestled with this. A lot of times I listen to old 70’s conference talks. I think it’s not the tax exempt status but a protection for the Saints. Remember prop 8 it was we the saints who lost our jobs and got put in a list if we donated. Maybe it’s for us to be able to survive in this wicked world. One day I believe they will again teach to these ideas but it will be when things are so bad the majority of people will long for this council. Right now I don’t think we are the majority and we are left to “know” because we have the desire.
That's a legitimate concern. That's one of the suggested reasons why polygamy was rescinded.
I long for this counsel to be given the various young people growing up in the Church. Do we just not care about them? They are to be sacrificed?
The brethren have and do address issues related to cultural influences, including concepts that could align with "wokeness" or postmodern thought, but they often do so in broader terms rather than labeling these ideas directly. They typically frame their talks within the context of eternal truths, moral standards, and the teachings of Jesus Christ, emphasizing the importance of distinguishing between worldly philosophies and gospel principles.
Thanks for essentially restating Greg’s point. The question is WHY.
@@ClintThomsenthat is the question that most often goes unanswered in this faithful life. I know the Lord speaks to Russell M Nelson. That is enough.
@@ClintThomsen As in, why don’t they list and condemn every specific trend, behavior, or ideology in the world? Perhaps it’s because emphasizing "eternal truths, moral standards, and the teachings of Jesus Christ" is more all-encompassing. While it might feel gratifying to hear the brethren denounce every ill, I see such an approach as more reactive than proactive. In my view, they’re doing well by focusing on core teachings and minimizing criticism.
@@motuna5332 I'd buy that argument if they had also stopped "denouncing" other ills, but they haven't. They've only stopped talking about certain things.
I don’t think tax exemption can be an excuse for failure to speak out on things that are not explicitly political. And the fact that we have to observe the law to maintain tax exempt status is just another example of a two tiered justice system. Democrats have been campaigning in Black churches for decades.
I wonder if we just need to grow up and become spiritually more independent because it's going to be so much worse than it is now.
Can't it be both? Can't we grow up AND have a functional lighthouse from the church? The opposition is relentless out here and we are asking for help.
Excellent points I also remember a very bold stance by the church many years ago , I do consider however the complexity of society today and what a difficult balancing act that Pres Nelson must take to maintain the programs of the church for future growth and prosperity for the church. I am glad that I am not in charge because I would not be able to do it
If you have read the Book of Mormon you are aware of several authors who were constrained when they wanted to tell us more about the things that were revealed to them. There is a purpose in that. President Nelson warned us: “But in coming days, it will not be possible to survive spiritually without the guiding, directing, comforting, and constant influence of the Holy Ghost.” We should not expect that the Lord will command in all things. We must put forth the effort to find the answers we seek, not expect them to just be handed to us.
I think Heavenly Father is restraining our leaders just as he did in the Book of Mormon and there may be several reasons for that. I don’t know the mind of God but I do know there is purpose in all things. And I do know the Savior is returning soon and it is up to each one of us to be prepared.
I no longer depend on the Church or its leaders for anything aside from the ecclesiastical priesthood keys and ordinances.
Provide the keys and access to ordinances, I and my family can rely on the Atonement and the Holy Ghost for all else.
Yes! I'm so glad you are speaking about this. Thank you! 💕
I know in the past you have said you don't like the explanation of wheat and tares being allowed to mature. But I can't get away from that thought has it relates to this topic. Often we can infer purpose by outcome.
Additionally, anything talked about other than declaring repentance unto this generation, and things we need to do to prepare for the second coming such as hear him, remove contention, etc etc, - everything added upon that is a dilution of those key messages needed today. I think President Nelson has said everything necessary in order for members to be in touch with spiritual guidance enough in order to survive spiritually going forward. Was Noah expected to decry every new fad that came up in his time? Or was his responsibility to cry repentance and preparation as much as possible?
The issues we’re dealing with today are hardly a fad.
Ceasing to reinforce cultural issues and sexual sin is a dilution, not the other way around.
Also, I must have missed the part of that parable where the gardener plants the tares and specifically nourishes them…
@@ClintThomsenClint, I said "allowed". And you seem to infer I am asserting scriptures indicate overt nourishment. Not so.
To your point on dilution... when has the church ceased to "reinforce... sexual sins"? Or even cultural ones! President Nelson and president Oaks have both recently talked about coarsening discourse and avoiding contention in those in that discourse. That seems to me like a very direct addressing of a cultural issue. So what is it you feel hasn't adequately been addressed, or the leadership is "ceasing" to address?
Its not just talking. The Miracle of Forgiveness has been replaced
"In coming days, it will not be possible to survive spiritually without the guiding, directing, comforting, and constant influence of the Holy Ghost." Those who will not take the Holy Ghost as their guide will fall. It is a slothful servant who needs to be commanded in all things. We are in the separating phase, the wheat from the tares. We have to take responsibility for our own salvation.
Exactly!
Have we heeded the teachings & prophecies in the Family a Proclamation to the World? Have they given the messages already? "the people hardened their hearts and would not hearken unto their words; and the prophets mourned and withdrew.... Ether 11:13
J Rueben Clark said we would have wolfs/communists in high places of office
I 100% sustain the apostles in general authorities.
After they repeating the same things for two centuries, they should not have to micromanage us on every principal. We are at the point when we are expected to live the “higher Law“. That means mastering the laws that have been important and still are.
The church has to handle certain things delicately, in a climate where persecution could rage faster and sooner, if we don’t be careful how we word the things over the pulpit.
Chasity, self control, temperament, and the word of wisdom are all just as important as ever. The proclamation on the family, was given as a warning, and it was given as a warning before we have seen everything crumble to the point where the world is becoming anti-family. That is no coincidence. God’s laws have not changed. We should not be a slothful servant, who needs to be commanded in all things.
If we are living the higher law, we will not be nit-picking.
@@denisemilne1330All is well in Zion, all is well.
I haven't heard this statement from any pulpit (General Conference, Stake Conference, Ward meeting, etc.) since 2018: Further, we warn that the disintegration of the family will bring upon individuals, communities, and nations the calamities foretold by ancient and modern prophets.
We call upon responsible citizens and officers of government everywhere to promote those measures designed to maintain and strengthen the family as the fundamental unit of society.
Yeah, that’s it. They just don’t want to micromanage. That’s why they stopped talking only about the controversial issues that will get us into hot water.
Um, our kids still need to hear .
One of the parables Jesus taught is about a net cast into the sea, found in Matt 13:48-49.
48. Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind, which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels; but cast the bad away.
49. So shall it be at the end of the world.
I believe we (the church) is in the phase of “gathering of every kind”, it will be up to the Lord when the Kingdom of Heaven comes (Millenium) to sort them out. I support the leaders of the church in reaching out to all people, in every way they can, to find the gospel. This is why I think things are happening as they are. The Church is true!
Except people are leaving because they cannot take the cognitive dissonance of being asked to support an anti-gay marriage bill in California and then asked to support the overturn of the Federal Protection of Marriage act. Or, support "I am a Mormon campaign" only a few years later to be asked to not use the term "Mormon"? These sort of things challenge the very definition of the gospel and cause those who are sincere to bow out.
@Jeff
Yes, I absolutely agree with what you say, I see the same thing as well. Throughout church history there have been periods of apostasy for various reasons,, even during Christ’s ministry there was one notable period of apostasy, as recorded in John 6:54-61. The people were offended at something Jesus said and left. Why would he do this? Wouldn’t more people add strength to His cause? He is more interested a quality conversion rather than large numbers of uncommitted followers, but the catch is, He has to gather in as many as possible to give them a chance to develop the quality of their conversion. This is why there has to be a sorting, that’s also His job. He asked the twelve if they will also go away, Peter responds “to whom shall we go”. To those in our day who are “bowing out”, where do they go? Is there a better way? Is there another organization that produces as much good and as many good people as the church does? The Lord is purposely testing us! If we realize what’s happening, He hasn’t abandoned us, He is strengthening whoever can hold on to the core; atonement, scripture, service to others, His prophets.
I see a lot of mixed feelings in the comments here. I can't lie my testimony has been shaken by all this. Prophets have always been bold warning voices for the Lord despite worldy pressures. Sometimes it led to the death of a prophet. Why all of a sudden change? Why now, in the last days where the clear warning voice is needed most? I have been praying since covid that the Lord would let me know if president Nelson is a prophet of God. The Lord has chosen to be silent and hasn't answered it for me yet. So despite my deep profound confusion I will continue to support the brethren unless the Lord gave me a strong witness to do otherwise.
Brother, I make sense of it all this way: The scriptures are clear and if “it” is contrary to the scriptures it is a policy of men. Like Section 119.
And I take solace that God is in charge and He will take care of the mess, Section 85:7 And it shall come to pass that I, the Lord God, will send one mighty and strong, holding the scepter of power in his hand, clothed with light for a covering, whose mouth shall utter words, eternal words; while his bowels shall be a fountain of truth, to set in order the house of God…
And knowing that the Holy Church of God is polluted by the hypocritical teachers and leaders (how much, I don’t know )Mormon 8:26-40,
And since God is the same yesterday,today,and forever and in Him there is no varianbleness neither shadow of changing Mormon 9:9
If “it” is changing it’s not of God.
Brother, I make sense of it all this way: The scriptures are clear and if “it” is contrary to the scriptures it is a policy of men. Like Section 119.
And I take solace that God is in charge and He will take care of the mess, Section 85:7 “And it shall come to pass that I, the Lord God, will send one mighty and strong, holding the scepter of power in his hand, clothed with light for a covering, whose mouth shall utter words, eternal words; while his bowels shall be a fountain of truth, to set in order the house of God…”
And knowing that the Holy Church of God is polluted by the hypocritical teachers and leaders (how much polluted I don’t know) Mormon 8: 26 40,
And since God is the same yesterday,today,and forever and in Him there is no varianbleness neither shadow of changing Mormon 9:9
If “it” is changing it’s not of God.
Greg you might be right, it could have to do with tax exempt status and I agree, I would rather that not be a reason.
But I think there might be another reason too.
There is strong evidence to suggest we joined the UN 2030 agenda sometime ago. Potentially adjacent to the odd general conference address by (I think), Elder Bednar, specifically mentioning and praising it.
When you research its tenants and then find out that in order to maintain membership, the organization CANNOT criticize its tenants publicly; things seem to fall in place.
If this is true, then I believe it was done with good intention, to be a positive voice in a movement that will gain power. But unfortunately, if the agreement to participate was to silence parts of that voice, then I think it will serve to change the church, more than the church will change it.
We have been warned about agreements with the world. We also have prophesy to suggest that we are susceptible to these temptations.
The Book of Mormon was given for us to recognize the opposition within ourselves. Not to judge someone else.
We are the audience it speaks to and its warnings and predictions are to us, not so much the greater society.
Good job
Of course you’re criticizing-you’re just saying you’re not so you can justify your frustrations of prophets not knowing what to do. The brethren need to be criticized when they lead the church astray Greg-they’re flawed men bro. They’re confusing everyone because even they don’t know the current church policies.
You criticized the church the full 15 minutes you don’t need to recant it and say you didn’t-you don’t need to be ashamed of it. If we as members don’t encourage positive change from within the church the brethren are just going to keep making dumb decisions that continue to confuse and lead members out of the church.
I think is because the church focus is world wide, back in the 60s-80s it was very US centered, the moment they talk about US issues the people from a small branch on an island in the Philippines (or other parts in the world) will not understand what is going on, the best the church has done is precisely what is doing right now, focus on covenants, temples and CFM,
I know a bishop in a third world country who believes the Church will soon have temple covenants for LGTBQ and tried to convince me of this.
My son served in Africa. Ultra-conservative Africa- the place several apostles have decreed to be future of the church. SLC’s lack of addressing western depravity is a massive stumbling block for growth there.
The reason why people are disturbed by the church's withdrawal from the social issues is that parents look to the church and scriptures as a source of authority. Children are more apt to accept a parent's position on a subject if it is in line with an authority they both recognize. Otherwise it's viewed as just the parents being mean or controlling.
This. We as parents are BEGGING for clarity on SPECIFIC issues. When I have to point to old talks to reinforce issues more and more, it doesn't help the case I am making to my kids.
This is fulfilling the prophecy of the wheat and the tares
Hey Greg, I think the problem isn't the brethren, but the membership. We as members have a myopic view of things. We think the church should do this or that. We are a worldwide church and the Brethren have a responsibility to be the mouthpiece of Christ. I for one trust that Christ is directing the church. I have my responsibility in my sphere of influence. I think about the number of temples being built and how loosing tax exempt statis would impact the building of temples.
I know there are members who are pushing for so much that is contrary to the doctrine. I stand with Christ knowing that we priesthood will not be taken from the earth. That the Family is central to the exaltation of God's children. It is sad to see so many members embracing Babylon. I love all of them and pray daily for their eyes to be opened, but in the end they have their agency to choose Christ or Babylon.
I say this from my personal experience. Life is hard and oftentimes we dont understand why things happen. I made a decision long ago to let Christ lead my life even if that means I lose loved ones slong the way. It hurts every day knowing some may never come back and embrace Christ again.
I know we have a responsibility to stand up for Christ and truth. The brethren have been telling us for years what is on the line. Honestly this all brings to mind D&C 58.
It is our responsibility to speak up for truth even if those present feel uncomfortable with the truth. We need not be afraid to speak truth.
I worry that whole wards in affluent areas are embracing Babylon. It actually looks a lot like what we see in The Book of Mormon. It is so sad that they cant see what is happening. They think they are wise and can create change in the church (2 Nephi 9).
How would the tax exempt status effect the building of temples? The Church has $100B. Do you think they will not be able to finance temples if future tithing is taxed?
it is a leadership problem...lots of faithful saints are still living the gospel and ate being censored and punished by leadership for speaking up for what is right in so many way that past prophets would have supported...they only care about new world order, money and fame
I couldn't even watch conference this year, I tried but so much mamby- pamby messages with what is going on in the world. I'm still not over their jab stance either.
Sounds like you get offended way too easily
@daverome1142 sounds like you don't know me.
You need to wake up. The church isn’t a political party. God, the father and Jesus Christ, didn’t come to restore a political party, they came to restore the church of Jesus Christ.
@@Laurie3721 what are you talking about?
Jabs, are we not being called to repent and beware?
Christ is coming soon. I felt rejuvenated in what I need to do better. My life has been completely turned upside down the last 7 months. I am so looking forward to the second coming and it's coming. We are supposed to change and become better. We were never meant to stay as is. If you felt a jab or too, maybe it's guilt. I have been humbled and it sucked, but It has changed me.
@trishachristensen7667 I didn't want to say covid shot but I guess I needed to. What are you even on about? Just making my own comment, no need for a conversation.
My best guess is that from 1850 to roughly 1990 was the time for the church to grow so that it may sustain itself and for members to get schooled in all the needful things. That time is over. We are now to share the gospel with every kindred, tongue, and nation. Some of those nations would not welcome us if our message is adverse to their political system or culture. So we press forward sharing gospel fundamentals with them to the best degree possible.
Meanwhile, those who have been around the church culture a little longer need to share with newer members in their area about the importance of that which is no longer taught/talked about, in a Christlike fashion, not with condescension.
So we let the Church fall apart in the United States in the hopes that baptisms in woke places like the EU don't kick us out?
The church has crippled us by declaring they are our spiritual authority. So if they are silent we are left to figure it out on our own and we don’t trust ourselves to get right answers. I have now removed all the voices from my head and go directly to God for answers.
I agree with the idea that the responsibility is put more and more on us. Many people in the past decade left the church because many would say "the church did not tell me." I don't think is the tax thing. In general, the church has the high ground as a global faith. In the west, many of these issues are at the front. But not as much as in other parts of the world. And it could be also that because of the growth of the church, the brethren are being more general in there speech. What is affecting us here in the US is not what is affecting others in other parts of the world. In the DnC 19:21-22 it says.
"21 And I command you that you preach naught but repentance, and show not these things unto the world until it is wisdom in me.
22 For they cannot bear meat now, but milk they must receive; wherefore, they must not know these things, lest they perish."
The church is full of new converts, new pioneers, people that need to be fed milk so that they can grow strong. In my opinion, its not helpful if social issues would be a major focus above that of the Doctrine of Christ and inviting people to stay on the covenant path. That is more important because if you are converted to Christ, the rest will follow. And by the way, I'm a convert, I've spent much of my time coming up in the church among new converts, most converts are too worried about there own problems in life to even think about the social issues that may or may not even apply to them. So what the brethren are doing with preaching the doctrine of Christ in relation to temples and covenants is spot on.
If I'm being honest, this is something I struggle with a lot. It's almost as if the brothern have gone on an apology tour for the last several years. At some point you have to start asking yourself why does the church do things that are illegal, things that would get you and i thrown into prison, things that generate millions of dollars in fines...and it's repetitive. What happened to "render unto Cesar that which is Cesar's"?
I try to listen to conference only to hear the same old platitudes with little to guide us in these troubled times. During the lock downs we were told by the church to stay home, social distance, wear a mask...and don't offend anyone else. All this while other "apostate" churches where fighting the lock downs. Then i hear Brother Oaks tell us "never again". Only to do it again.
Where is the spirit of the Christ who braded a whip and physically threw the money changers out of the temple?
It's as if the modern church has fallen in to apostasy. Perhaps that is signaling the beginning of the end times.
Not happening.
@@CwicShow we can only hope not.
@@CwicShow And yet it is. The ancient Jewish church held the keys, but kept its people in darkness. There is no reason why that cannot happen today. Nor is there any reason why God cannot send a forerunner to wrest the keys and the kingdom from the gentiles, just as it was wrested from the Jews by John. The kingdom rolls on, but by another people.
@@CwicShowIS happening.
"Oh be wise. What more can I say"...I feel that the church leaders have been very clear on the social issues of our day. If we are reading the scriptures, conference talks and keeping ourselves unspotted from the world, spiritual clarity comes and aligns with what the bretheren and sister organization's leadership have taught and continue to teach.
I know what God expects from me and I have had the responsibility and taught my children. I have no questions what is right and wrong,it is clear to me. We have the scriptures, we have the gift of the Holy Ghost. I don’t see what you feel is missing. We have to take responsibility to govern our selves
I'm glad you are addressing what we all are thinking. I love the gospel and the church that has brought it to me. It is a great blessing. My world was really rocked by how the church handled the pandemic. I knew something was really off. I go to church for the sacrament and obedience but the talks and lessons are painfully lacking in substance by design. I love serving in the temple and reading scripture and other good books. I know we have to create our own zion in the home but I miss the community and sense of refuge from Babylon that used to exist at church.
I remember someone was asking about food storage one time and how the brethren don't really ever mention it in conference anymore and someone replied how many times do they really need to talk about it? Maybe they are tired of talking about it and not having people listen.
So you are saying they are lazy?
Pres Nelson just reminded us again to prepare temporally and spiritually and not to stop just a couple years ago. Pres Eyring as well.
We have been taught about every social ill for the last 30 years. All the answers are in general conference addresses from Benson to Oaks and Christofferson to Bednar from the canon to the Proclamation. Every prophet has spoken out against socialism yet the members of the Church continue to support, promote, encourage and vote for socialist tenets. Prophets and apostles have given the doctrine on abortion and yet members continue to support, promote, encourage and vote for abortion rights. The doctrine of the family as eternal is well established in scripture and by modern prophets and is never changing, but members still advocate, promote, support, encourage and vote for LGBT causes. The word of wisdom is well established in scripture and by prophets, but no one has told me specifically that Zyn, high sugar diets and Monster drinks are addictive and bad for my soul, let alone my body.
If you have eyes to see and ears to hear, every current social ill has been specifically addressed at GC, and further at or BYU, BYUI, BYUH or GC leadership training, or area presidency training -all readily available on anyone’s phone at anytime.
Nowhere was this idea more vivid for me than during 2020. The dereliction of duty by every major institution reeked of a cover your assets mindset. The church offered absolutely nothing unique from anyone else in the world, and had absolutely no acknowledgement that we weren't all living the same experience. All I wanted from church leaders was an acknowledgement that they were afraid of governments. "We love an value each of you. We cannot at this time accommodate everyone in their different beliefs and risk factors. Please understand this is not a deliberate exclusion. These uncertain times are full of uncertain laws, and we err on the most conservative side." Or, to hell with all that and fear God more than man. But what they did was the worse of both worlds. Kick out members who could not toe the line, and act all virtuous about it. Require the vaccine as a virtue signal. Limit temple attendance and require masks. It was hell on earth and I am still having a hard time forgiving. Where was the inspiration behind any of it? They never said. They never explained a thing. It still makes me sad, especially for my kids who did not get enough of the experiences prior generations got and took for granted. To sacrifice the rising generation was the ultimate afront in my mind.
The Church needs to give up the tax exempt status allowing us to restart the adoptions that we can allow children to be placed in righteous homes who will protect them from the woke mind virus.
I think it’s a good thing. A higher and holier way.
It has to change because only those that have eyes to see and ears to hear, will get the message.
If we look back and say, “the prophets used to do this or that. Why don’t they now?” That’s the wrong line of thinking. We are always progressing as a people and a church. We are in the final phase where we have to receive our own direction from the lord while using the latest general conference talks as a litmus test for truth. This is the 5 foolish virgins versus the 5 wise.
D&C 58:26-28: For behold it is not meet that I should command in all things;for he that is compelled in all things, the same is a slothful and not a wise servant; wherefore he receive the no reward. Vs27: Verily I say, men should be anxiously engaged in a good cause, and do many things of their own free will, and bring to pass much righteousness; vs28: For the power is in them, wherein they are agents unto themselves, and inasmuch as men do good they shall in no wise lose their reward. Read heading paragraph when & why this revelation was given….. helpful to think in terms of our context of “living in these last days” where every little choice matters ‘ we need to become strong within & accept personal responsibility for our choices in ways never before required. The Restored Gospel’s FOUNDATION has been laid priesthood power & service to others! We fill in the rest! In that priesthood power is our centerpoints Christ & Heavenly Fathet! Let’s make them & ourselves proud!😇🧑🦳🥰
I think IT IS more obvious than ever ,what it is( the gosple) and what it is not.
If people ( members )can’t see that ,they are obviously not prepared to meet the Savior. Time is short !!! We need to work on our selves and our families to become more like Christ.
People want the church to become a political party. You understand very little about the restored gospel if you’re one of these people.
Hormone blockers are evil. This should have nothing to do with political party. People are frustrated that leadership doesn't address many issues and is vague with many others.
Jesus is the example; He trusted in His Father and miraculously got the coin from the fish’s mouth and paid the tax and went on fearlessly teaching truth.
The Church tells the members to pay their tax, the Corp fears the tax and walks on eggshells and preaches a water down gospel, seeking the world’s acceptance and adulation.
I think a lot of the members of the church have become soft on issues because of political correctness. And I think that if the church comes out like it used to members will get mad and leave the church. I think we’re at the end of times where the higher laws are too hard for people in the church to do anymore. I think most everyone’s living a terrestrial or a telestial law ,that’s just my opinion.
While I don't like to see people leave the church, if they are that weak that they get offended and leave the church, they probably have bigger problems. The need to be ok with the truth and if the truth offends them, that means that they would prefer the church be more flexible to fit their wants/desires.
You're right on the money here.
International church or not the Book of Mormon raises many issues that are VERY politically relevant perhaps no more than "conspiracies'.
Our world is polluted by big business, billionaires and areas of governments where secrecy reigns and I think many of us have sort current direction in a turbulent world... where is our leadership??? Just asking 😂
In a political setting i mentioned to my church leader that i hoped the US govt revoked tax exempt status from all schools and all churches including mine.
Do we have to reorganize into something less vulnerable?
How do we know what exactly our responsibility is without the direction of living prophets? It seems like it’s leaving it up to each individuals interpretation of how exaltation is accomplished if we don’t have specific instruction from living prophets. We also are told to take the word of the living prophets over that of past prophets, how do we do that when some things aren’t being said by living prophets?
Agree. Yes the church is there to support families but they are also there to give us guidance and direction. The church seems to be very wishy washy on issues that they need to take a stand on. Very disappointing.
You’re right. It’s very confusing. IMHO Believing living prophets over past prophets is a false doctrine. It sets them up as a modern monopoly of Mormonism. Oops not suppose to say Mormon ; )
@@daisygirlrains2002 I think “very disappointing” is a bit harsh from my view. They give great counsel and revelation, i love being a member of the church but it would help a lot to feel like there’s a stated position on some of the crazy things in society.
@@cherylmorris3618 I don’t think it’s false doctrine, it makes alot of sense that current revelation on current events would be more important but for that there has to be a stated position on the current events.
The Scriptures tell us to listen to ALL the holy prophets. President Nelson talked about a litmus test in conference to test their words in the next six months… I test their words against the word of God in the Scriptures. But that me.
There is a reason for this. The church has a mission. And being our political Savior before the second coming is not it since the saints fell into captivity long ago with statehood. The church is the bride. According to Joseph it is not to openly challenge or oppose corrupt governments but to get along with them and leave judgement to the Lord. the verse I refer to say in the NT and DC to make friends with the mammon of unrighteousness.
Joseph also said before he died that it was not always wise to reveal all the truth. He said for the future the church must refrain from its open exposing and challenging of the secret combinations of it enemies any longer but to instead patiently take its lumps.
So the church as the bride needs to wait for the bridegroom to be saved politically and be protected. That's how it works.
Meanwhile members that have made covenants to spend their lives even if it costs them their lives to build and protect the church should keep their covenants. They should be willing to stand alone if needed to give the church political cover and take all the heat individually.
The church needs to be trusted and accepted by corrupt governments everywhere so it can teach and gather and provide ordinances etc.
But having been taught correct principles we must show we are willing to govern ourselves by those principles. So when the church begs us to vote and run for office and to establish and protect principles of freedom they are asking us to keep our covenants for Pete's sake.
501c3 muzzles the church. And you are kidding yourself if you think it's voluntary for such a big church. It's voluntary in name only.
If the church is found in breach of the requirements of that tyrannical designation, the government can go back to the day the church was issued the status and revoke it and then calculate all taxes penalties and fines since then to bankrupt the church and seize all its assets virtually overnight. People don’t seem to have any idea how the corrupt government can arbitrarily decide to accuse and judge the church as noncompliant on a whim. They did that with the sec filing. The church fought back on the child molestation hit prices in Arizona. And shortly after they get told a purposefully ambiguous filing requirement that had worked for decades was now a violation so hey found fine and embarrass the church.
Do people really think that was some coincidence? No it was w warning shot. If you were to imagine what the church might need to do and say to survive a Nazi German type rise to power. Then the defensive and overly complaint moves the church is a king will make perfect logical sense. Imagine hitler saying you a voluntarily be a 501c3 or not. It's a threat not a choice. Case law says that a 501c3 org cannot be in opposition to any government health policy. They legally have to rubber stamp such policies.
So when president Nelson tells us we can't just rely on them anymore because if we don't know how to get revelation or we won't spiritually survivor he knows what he is talking about.
I have learned and understood many things through the study and pondering of Doctrine and Covenants 58:26-33. The church, it's leaders and members are charged with sharing the gospel with the world. The living of gospel principles will take care of social uncertainties.
The 1/2 hour of silence?
I'm really liked having a dress code for the youth and adults. As a young woman president years ago I noticed that the parents that did not enforce a dress code on their children were the same children who tended to have morality problems later on. There really is a correlation.
While Jesus toured Judea during his mortal ministry, He spoke plainly to the people. The closer He came to Jerusalem and His crucifixion, the more He spoke in parables to confound the lawyers and Pharisees who tried to trip Him up and convict himself. Those with eyes to see and ears to hear got the message. Our times are a representation of His final days. The Prophets and Apostles of our time are telling us what is going on and what is going to happen. “You will need the constant companionship of the Holy Ghost or you will not survive spiritually.”We are living in the Last Days.
You either get it or you don’t.