I just did this engine swap myself. Your video was very helpful. Took no time at all. I didn't have to use a puller. I was able to push and pry the pulley off with several 3/4" x 1/2" scraps of wood. Thanks for posting this. One of the better Predator swaps I've seen.
@@russ4930 Thanks for the video. Foillowing your instructions, I repowered a Troy Bilt horse with a Pedator engine and it works fine. One odd thing happened, though. The engine kept shutting down. I finally figured out that the oil sensor was cutting it off because of the angle the engine is often in when the tines are digging in. I overfilled the oil just a little and that fixed the problem. Thanks again!
Great job Russ on the video and general mechanical skills to explain it. As a 70 yr old that grew up in a lawnmower shop, let me share a few tidbits with you (1) I own a 1973 Troy Bilt Horse Model I ; Serial# 76613, that has original 6HP Tecumseh HH60 - 105080E Ser# 3309R that looks just like yours so I know a bit about them. (2) Several of your viewers mentioned disconnecting the "low-oil" warning wire. Allow me to mention a paragraph in both the original manual, and Edition 3 (1989) where they warn users about when tilling uphill, to pay close attention. On level ground tilling 10"deep, the bottom of engine can be 30° from horizontal or flat - and add another 15° of hill and now engine is tilted back at 45°-degree angle. The oil splasher on that engine was not designed to operate at that much of an extreme, so limit amount of time and make sure oil level is full. I don't suspect the Predator engine you used is designed for that either. It’s why newer 20-25hp lawn tractor now have a “pressurized” oiling system. (3) One gent was talking about not breaking ground - another offered good advice of taking 1-2” first pass or that machine will literally jump out of your hands. I wish there was a way to attach photos to this comment section.
Thanks for your comments which are spot on. I have had no problems at all with my new engine on the Troy Bilt. Just tilled for the 3rd year and it still starts right up 1 or 2 pulls. Amazing. I find plenty of power. I also run good synthetic oil and keep it full. I consider it to be an excellent engine swap. Keep on tillin.
Hey Russ - Thanks for the video. I used it yesterday to guide me through repowering my Troy Bilt Horse with the same Predator engine. Job went well. And thanks to the other comments regarding the oil pressure cut off wiring, I was prepared when it happened to me during the test run. Thanks again for taking the time, much appreciated.
I just acquired this old model for free. Still has the original Tecumseh 6 HP engine. I replaced the head gasket ,changed the oil and tinkered with the carb for a while. Well this baby now runs like new. Built like a brick outhouse.
I have a 5hp Sears 17" rear tine tiller that needed a carburetor. Carb cost $100. Bought a Harbor Freight Predator 6.5hp engine with a coupon for less than $100. Mounted right up. Works great.
I do garden tilling full time in the warm months where I live. The harbor freight engine is under-powered. It will stall when breaking sod. I bought a 8hp Briggs with 3/4 shaft of ebay and my tiller is a beast. It never stall out even when busting sod.
I would have to disagree with you on that omcdude64. I put the 212 predator on and with the setting I have for the rear tines....there are 4 on mine...it will do the job just fine and I have very hard clay type soil. just tilled the side of my house with the motor installed ..kept stopping on the incline...took that stupid oil level regulator off...about 1 minute to do and it ran like a beast...only thing is I have to figure how to link my excisting throttle cable to the motor...to me it seems like to much motor...I had thought it wouldn't be strong enough but couldn't afford the 6 horse.(have to get a new computer on my Harley and have them program it)
@@mikedayitt I did this replacement a couple of years ago on my 40 year old Horse. Happy with that HF engine. Bumper went back on easily. Kept stalling out on uphill inclines until I discovered that pesky oil level sensor. Just unplugged it. Busts sod ok if you adjust the drive belt to the low rpm set of pulleys.
My old Troy Bilt had a Wisconsin Robin and the PTO shaft is 1". The Predator 212cc. is 3/4" so I am thinking about the Predator 301cc which shows to have a 1" shaft. Looks like same tiller as yours.
I'd say this is the best video I've seen on doing this conversion. The engine you had was the HH60 Tecumseh with electric start, but the conversion will work for any of the Horse model tillers. I just did the conversion with my great grandfather's 1973 Horse with 4-1/2 hp Clinton. With the Clinton, there's no change of the pulley bolt, it's already 5/16-24. All I needed was an additional shim and the pulleys line up perfectly with the reversing disc dropping in for a perfect fit.
Some guy sold me his Tecumseh 7 hp off his Troy Built for $60. Was gonna repower with HF as well. I just shook my head and run with it. You can always rebuild those and preserve classic look, feel and handling. Or just go for functional. Those machines are worth preserving imo. I'm rebuilding a 1972 Ariens Rocket 7 and will use that powerplant to make it look original. Old cast iron short blocks are easy to work on and should last for a long time if properly cared for. HF stuff is disposable, might be impossible to get parts for.
Disposable but with a cast iron sleeve and pressure/splash lube it'll last as long as a new Honda or Briggs if you maintain it. Honda motor and carb parts bolt onto this motor... do some research. I have over 200 hours on a Predator 212 on my Horse I tiller and a Predator 212 with well over 300 hours that replaced a used 196cc Honda GC200 on my used log splitter that only made it 5 splitting seasons before giving out on me. The PO was none too careful about maintenance with the Honda for it's first 6 years of life and it was already smoking when I got it. 11 years isn't too bad for an abused engine. I picked up the tiller for $25 with a hole in the HH60 engine. The Predators are still going strong no smoke and no runability issues. I change the oil and run ethanol free fuel with stabilizer in these engines. The Predator 212 has noticeably more power than the HH70 on my restored Troy Bilt Horse I, less noise, noticeably lower fuel consumption, and much easier starting even tho the Tecumseh has a new coil, points, and carburetor... and it cost me $99.95... What more do you want?
I put a predator 212 on my troy built tiller...only issue I have to figure out is linking the excisting speed control cable to the motor. I drilled to bolt that has the screw on top so it would fit the cable harness thru but now the screw will not start in it because the thru hole is to large for thread to grip. right behind that nut with screw is the cable hold down but the way its rigged the cable would have to almost do a 90 degree turn to even hook up to the throttle linkage on the motor. was thinking of soldering lead in hole where screw was to hold haness in place or jb weld it. but if you have a better idea could you let me know .thanks
@@DrDIYporsche I was going thru an incident of shingles and until a few days ago I took the air cleaner unit off(2 10mm hex nuts) and lo and behold there was a way to route the existing cable and now I have it hook up where it works. and I must say it runs like when I had it back 35 years ago..May have to tweak the rear drive pully a tad to make reverse a little faster tho.
do you feel that the 301cc Predator would be a better choice, or do you think think the 212 is more than enough power? I'm planning to do the same thing this week with my horse tiller.
I have never been able to bog down the 212. I also have a plow and can push 2 feet of heavy wet snow with it. Original Tecumseh hard to start and way too top heavy.
I have a Horse with an 8 horse Kohler. Way underpowered. I wish someone would put the 13 Horse Predator on one to see if the iron can take the extra torque.
I've had to re-shim the crank pulley on an original type Tecumseh and not had to do a thing different with some others. It really depends on the engine and luck of the draw.
I put the same motor on mine and at first starting it it worked great...but my run lever is kinda loosy and I have to figure out how to put my throttle cable to work right in it for right now...so after running after it a couple of times and it stalling on the incline I took that oil level unit off the thing..takes about one minute and it works great...but then I lowered my rubber wheel to far down and it was smoking like crazy...thought the oil lever solenoid had to be on ...but then realized I had the rubber reverse wheel way to far down and it would smoke from speed.it works great cept for me figuring out how to attach the throttle cable to the motor
Some troy bilt tillers had a 2 pulley engine one for forward and one for reverse. Very hard to find a motor gor replacement. No new motors of this style available.
I had to smack my bumper a couple of times to clear the air cleaner but it now fits fine. Bolted it on tight then held a block of wood for cushion and gave it a whack with my big maul.
somebody.. HELP.. i am trying to pull the engine on my Troy-bilt Horse. Everything is off, but I cannot figure out how to pull the 2 engine pins. I pulled the lock bolt that hold them in. Then tried to push them out, both up and down. they do not move at all. is there a secret to pulling them? Please help.
There is no good advice. With the lock bolts out, the pins should move. Simple corrosion. PB Blaster or WD40 and time. Perhaps some heat on the castings then start tapping.
disconnected iol switch after having problems with motor dying after tines in ground worked for awhile now motor dies when tines are in ground working . motor runs fine while sitting level ?
I had to do that because I garden on a steep hillside, and it was pitiful. Called Harbor Freight, and got someone very knowledgeable. told me to disconnect that switch, and not a bit more trouble going across the side-hill. I just pulled and replaced the tile oil seals a couple weeks ago, which is the only thing I have had to do to it since the Predator engine replacement and low oil switch disconnect.
Hey Russ,We have the same Troy tiller as you. Mid-seventies model that came with the five HP Koehler. About five years ago, the tired old engine threw a rod right through the casing while I was turning the ground. While searching for a Honda replacement, I was facing an $ 600 bill...........! Discovered that we could buy an Asian engine for a fraction ( $ 125 CAD), and as we're not rich, that made sense. In The US, the model we purchased is labeled as Predator. Here in Canada, it's simply marketed as a 6.5 HP. You are right, as In your video, the engine is a direct replacement. I'm not a big fan of Chinese products, the quality is usually very, very poor. However, I realized that the engine would have little in the way of accumulated hours. We have a 5,000 sq. ft veg. garden, so, the engine would not see much more than 10 or 12 hours run-time per season.Five years later........................I just tuned-up the engine and used it to prepare our beds.The engine starts on the first tug everytime. It has enough power to work the gearbox and I can't complain. However, in the time we've used it, there's been only about 60-70 hours of run-time. The crank end seals have failed and oil blows out over the tiller gearbox but, the engine still runs strong.You'd be hard pressed to find a tiller as well built as a Troy from the 70;s.Good luck with youurs
Thanks for the info. My garden is smaller than yours and I hope to get many years of service. The engine may not be appropriate for all applications but so far I am very happy with it.
What length is that center shaft bolt that has to be replaced on the Predator? 5/16 24. I tried a 1 1/2 inch and when tightened it seems to lock up the pulleys.
Try one and you too will find out that the overhead valve, higher compression, 212cc Predators will outperform the older, lower compression, original equipment flathead engine designs. They even outperform the 196cc Honda engines that they are copies of (at least in terms of power, if not durability). I have also found them to be durable and hold up well given nominal care and maintenance.
I have an original manual for the horse model which lists 3 different engines, 4 1/2, 6 and 7 hp. I imagine it would be frustrating to use the 4 1/2 on tougher jobs though.
I just did this engine swap myself. Your video was very helpful. Took no time at all. I didn't have to use a puller. I was able to push and pry the pulley off with several 3/4" x 1/2" scraps of wood. Thanks for posting this. One of the better Predator swaps I've seen.
Thanks for your reply.
How did you set up your throttle cable
@@Crystianna10 Forget the cable. Just use the throttle lever on the front of the motor for the speed you want (typically full). Couldn't be easier.
@@russ4930 Thanks for the video. Foillowing your instructions, I repowered a Troy Bilt horse with a Pedator engine and it works fine. One odd thing happened, though. The engine kept shutting down. I finally figured out that the oil sensor was cutting it off because of the angle the engine is often in when the tines are digging in. I overfilled the oil just a little and that fixed the problem. Thanks again!
@@dagrote1 Thanks for the info. Glad it is all working good for you. My engine has never died but if it does, this is the first thing I will check.
Great job Russ on the video and general mechanical skills to explain it. As a 70 yr old that grew up in a lawnmower shop, let me share a few tidbits with you (1) I own a 1973 Troy Bilt Horse Model I ; Serial# 76613, that has original 6HP Tecumseh HH60 - 105080E Ser# 3309R that looks just like yours so I know a bit about them. (2) Several of your viewers mentioned disconnecting the "low-oil" warning wire. Allow me to mention a paragraph in both the original manual, and Edition 3 (1989) where they warn users about when tilling uphill, to pay close attention. On level ground tilling 10"deep, the bottom of engine can be 30° from horizontal or flat - and add another 15° of hill and now engine is tilted back at 45°-degree angle. The oil splasher on that engine was not designed to operate at that much of an extreme, so limit amount of time and make sure oil level is full. I don't suspect the Predator engine you used is designed for that either. It’s why newer 20-25hp lawn tractor now have a “pressurized” oiling system. (3) One gent was talking about not breaking ground - another offered good advice of taking 1-2” first pass or that machine will literally jump out of your hands. I wish there was a way to attach photos to this comment section.
Thanks for your comments which are spot on. I have had no problems at all with my new engine on the Troy Bilt. Just tilled for the 3rd year and it still starts right up 1 or 2 pulls. Amazing. I find plenty of power. I also run good synthetic oil and keep it full. I consider it to be an excellent engine swap. Keep on tillin.
Hey Russ - Thanks for the video. I used it yesterday to guide me through repowering my Troy Bilt Horse with the same Predator engine. Job went well. And thanks to the other comments regarding the oil pressure cut off wiring, I was prepared when it happened to me during the test run. Thanks again for taking the time, much appreciated.
I just acquired this old model for free. Still has the original Tecumseh 6 HP engine. I replaced the head gasket ,changed the oil and tinkered with the carb for a while. Well this baby now runs like new. Built like a brick outhouse.
These are great tillers. Love mine.
Great video - precise and to the point. I'm having issues with my Try-Bilt and will probably need to swap out the engine too - thx
2 years later mine still starts easy and runs great. Plenty of power.
I'm thinking about repowering a chipper/shredder. That should be **easier** that this swap, so, thanks for the encouragement.
I have a 5hp Sears 17" rear tine tiller that needed a carburetor. Carb cost $100. Bought a Harbor Freight Predator 6.5hp engine with a coupon for less than $100. Mounted right up. Works great.
Great instructions - Thanks for putting this out!!!!
Would you put the Predator model number in the description.
I do garden tilling full time in the warm months where I live. The harbor freight engine is under-powered. It will stall when breaking sod. I bought a 8hp Briggs with 3/4 shaft of ebay and my tiller is a beast. It never stall out even when busting sod.
I would have to disagree with you on that omcdude64. I put the 212 predator on and with the setting I have for the rear tines....there are 4 on mine...it will do the job just fine and I have very hard clay type soil. just tilled the side of my house with the motor installed ..kept stopping on the incline...took that stupid oil level regulator off...about 1 minute to do and it ran like a beast...only thing is I have to figure how to link my excisting throttle cable to the motor...to me it seems like to much motor...I had thought it wouldn't be strong enough but couldn't afford the 6 horse.(have to get a new computer on my Harley and have them program it)
@@mikedayitt I did this replacement a couple of years ago on my 40 year old Horse. Happy with that HF engine. Bumper went back on easily. Kept stalling out on uphill inclines until I discovered that pesky oil level sensor. Just unplugged it. Busts sod ok if you adjust the drive belt to the low rpm set of pulleys.
My old Troy Bilt had a Wisconsin Robin and the PTO shaft is 1". The Predator 212cc. is 3/4" so I am thinking about the Predator 301cc which shows to have a 1" shaft. Looks like same tiller as yours.
Would probably be a good choice. My tiller is now the best starting it has ever been. Great engines.
I'd say this is the best video I've seen on doing this conversion. The engine you had was the HH60 Tecumseh with electric start, but the conversion will work for any of the Horse model tillers. I just did the conversion with my great grandfather's 1973 Horse with 4-1/2 hp Clinton. With the Clinton, there's no change of the pulley bolt, it's already 5/16-24. All I needed was an additional shim and the pulleys line up perfectly with the reversing disc dropping in for a perfect fit.
This engine runs very well and I am very pleased with the conversion. Glad to have your info. Thanks for the input.
Some guy sold me his Tecumseh 7 hp off his Troy Built for $60. Was gonna repower with HF as well. I just shook my head and run with it. You can always rebuild those and preserve classic look, feel and handling. Or just go for functional. Those machines are worth preserving imo. I'm rebuilding a 1972 Ariens Rocket 7 and will use that powerplant to make it look original. Old cast iron short blocks are easy to work on and should last for a long time if properly cared for. HF stuff is disposable, might be impossible to get parts for.
Disposable but with a cast iron sleeve and pressure/splash lube it'll last as long as a new Honda or Briggs if you maintain it. Honda motor and carb parts bolt onto this motor... do some research.
I have over 200 hours on a Predator 212 on my Horse I tiller and a Predator 212 with well over 300 hours that replaced a used 196cc Honda GC200 on my used log splitter that only made it 5 splitting seasons before giving out on me. The PO was none too careful about maintenance with the Honda for it's first 6 years of life and it was already smoking when I got it. 11 years isn't too bad for an abused engine. I picked up the tiller for $25 with a hole in the HH60 engine.
The Predators are still going strong no smoke and no runability issues. I change the oil and run ethanol free fuel with stabilizer in these engines.
The Predator 212 has noticeably more power than the HH70 on my restored Troy Bilt Horse I, less noise, noticeably lower fuel consumption, and much easier starting even tho the Tecumseh has a new coil, points, and carburetor... and it cost me $99.95... What more do you want?
212cc Predator is better than a junk Nostalgia engine
I put a predator 212 on my troy built tiller...only issue I have to figure out is linking the excisting speed control cable to the motor. I drilled to bolt that has the screw on top so it would fit the cable harness thru but now the screw will not start in it because the thru hole is to large for thread to grip. right behind that nut with screw is the cable hold down but the way its rigged the cable would have to almost do a 90 degree turn to even hook up to the throttle linkage on the motor.
was thinking of soldering lead in hole where screw was to hold haness in place or jb weld it. but if you have a better idea could you let me know .thanks
I didnt bother and simply run mine with the engine control.
@@DrDIYporsche I was going thru an incident of shingles and until a few days ago I took the air cleaner unit off(2 10mm hex nuts) and lo and behold there was a way to route the existing cable and now I have it hook up where it works. and I must say it runs like when I had it back 35 years ago..May have to tweak the rear drive pully a tad to make reverse a little faster tho.
Thanks for the info.
Anyone know what bolts to mount the engine? I've heard they're metric on the Predator?
You don't need a puller for the pulley it slids right off easily
do you feel that the 301cc Predator would be a better choice, or do you think think the 212 is more than enough power? I'm planning to do the same thing this week with my horse tiller.
Have been very pleased with the power of the 212 engine.
I have never been able to bog down the 212. I also have a plow and can push 2 feet of heavy wet snow with it. Original Tecumseh hard to start and way too top heavy.
I have a Horse with an 8 horse Kohler. Way underpowered. I wish someone would put the 13 Horse Predator on one to see if the iron can take the extra torque.
So the pullers line back up prefect?
Some shimming MAY be needed. Mine lined up but I understand others needed some shims.
I've had to re-shim the crank pulley on an original type Tecumseh and not had to do a thing different with some others. It really depends on the engine and luck of the draw.
did you maintain your reverse with this conversion?
Yes. Simply keep the pulleys properly lined up.
I put the same motor on mine and at first starting it it worked great...but my run lever is kinda loosy and I have to figure out how to put my throttle cable to work right in it for right now...so after running after it a couple of times and it stalling on the incline I took that oil level unit off the thing..takes about one minute and it works great...but then I lowered my rubber wheel to far down and it was smoking like crazy...thought the oil lever solenoid had to be on ...but then realized I had the rubber reverse wheel way to far down and it would smoke from speed.it works great cept for me figuring out how to attach the throttle cable to the motor
Some troy bilt tillers had a 2 pulley engine one for forward and one for reverse. Very hard to find a motor gor replacement. No new motors of this style available.
"What we have here" .... I thought he was going to say "a failure to communicate" a'la Cool Hand Luke.
Thanks for a good smile.
Hello i have the same tiller and motor. Im haven trouble getting it to rip into the ground. Could you add a how to video?
Why whenever it hits the dirt it stops spinning. I feel it should be ripping up the ground
If it isn't spinning then check the tightness of the belts. I take several passes to break up new dirt. Start shallow then go deeper with each pass.
How do I tighten the belt
The belts have stretched over time. Need new/shorter belts.
If the belt is not completely worn out. You might spray some belt dressing on the belt.
Now can the bumper be reattached with this motor?
I had to smack my bumper a couple of times to clear the air cleaner but it now fits fine. Bolted it on tight then held a block of wood for cushion and gave it a whack with my big maul.
is any one finding this engine isnt compatable on the tiller because of the angle and the low oil shutdown
My engine runs great on my tiller.
i just by passed my low oil shut down. wrks perfect now
should have rebuilt the tecumseh imo. i have a 1980 model and there is no battery. it is magneto fired.
Theres no battery on that 1 either ??
No battery needed and runs great on my tiller.
somebody.. HELP.. i am trying to pull the engine on my Troy-bilt Horse. Everything is off, but I cannot figure out how to pull the 2 engine pins. I pulled the lock bolt that hold them in. Then tried to push them out, both up and down. they do not move at all. is there a secret to pulling them? Please help.
There is no good advice. With the lock bolts out, the pins should move. Simple corrosion. PB Blaster or WD40 and time. Perhaps some heat on the castings then start tapping.
Very goood video man thanks
i would recomend disconecting the low oil switch because with the bouncing around it may shut the engine off
Thanks for the input. My tiller has run fine as is but I will keep it in mind in case I have problems.
disconnected iol switch after having problems with motor dying after tines in ground worked for awhile now motor dies when tines are in ground working . motor runs fine while sitting level ?
I had to do that because I garden on a steep hillside, and it was pitiful. Called Harbor Freight, and got someone very knowledgeable. told me to disconnect that switch, and not a bit more trouble going across the side-hill. I just pulled and replaced the tile oil seals a couple weeks ago, which is the only thing I have had to do to it since the Predator engine replacement and low oil switch disconnect.
I would buy that old Tecumseh from you if you are interested in selling it.
Long gone. Donated to some teenager for a project.
Thanks for the offer but it went free beside the road out front.
The only good comment on this video so far.
Two things make these tillers work well. One is quality of materials and the other is weight both are missing in the Chinese engine.
Tiller works well with the chinese engine. Works well with american engine. Good tiller either way.
Hey Russ,We have the same Troy tiller as you. Mid-seventies model that came with the five HP Koehler. About five years ago, the tired old engine threw a rod right through the casing while I was turning the ground. While searching for a Honda replacement, I was facing an $ 600 bill...........! Discovered that we could buy an Asian engine for a fraction ( $ 125 CAD), and as we're not rich, that made sense. In The US, the model we purchased is labeled as Predator. Here in Canada, it's simply marketed as a 6.5 HP. You are right, as In your video, the engine is a direct replacement. I'm not a big fan of Chinese products, the quality is usually very, very poor. However, I realized that the engine would have little in the way of accumulated hours. We have a 5,000 sq. ft veg. garden, so, the engine would not see much more than 10 or 12 hours run-time per season.Five years later........................I just tuned-up the engine and used it to prepare our beds.The engine starts on the first tug everytime. It has enough power to work the gearbox and I can't complain. However, in the time we've used it, there's been only about 60-70 hours of run-time. The crank end seals have failed and oil blows out over the tiller gearbox but, the engine still runs strong.You'd be hard pressed to find a tiller as well built as a Troy from the 70;s.Good luck with youurs
Thanks for the info. My garden is smaller than yours and I hope to get many years of service. The engine may not be appropriate for all applications but so far I am very happy with it.
thanks alot
Glad to help.
What length is that center shaft bolt that has to be replaced on the Predator? 5/16 24. I tried a 1 1/2 inch and when tightened it seems to lock up the pulleys.
That is a Horse model and that predator engine is too small. The OEM is 307ccs.
The engine is quite strong and powers my tiller without problems. Runs quiet and smooth.
Try one and you too will find out that the overhead valve, higher compression, 212cc Predators will outperform the older, lower compression, original equipment flathead engine designs. They even outperform the 196cc Honda engines that they are copies of (at least in terms of power, if not durability). I have also found them to be durable and hold up well given nominal care and maintenance.
I have an original manual for the horse model which lists 3 different engines, 4 1/2, 6 and 7 hp. I imagine it would be frustrating to use the 4 1/2 on tougher jobs though.
I like your wife's car
Thank you. She does too.
These engines are shit..will not last more than a year.
Not sure of your past experience but mine is running great.