Rest in Peace Prof Holmes, loves reading your books on the Iron Duke, and like some many have said before im sure The Iron Duke will be waiting for you!!
Duke of Wellington is one of my favorite generals. And it is funny how both the Duke and Napoleon's private life were upsidedown. Their love life were all over the place and yet they became legends on the battlefield.
Robert Kelly there is no evidence he hated ireland in fact the horses and stables comment attributed to him was not true... it was in fact something o,connell said about him in parliament
i have no doubt he wanted ireland to remain british and hated fenians however wanting ireland to remain as part of the union did not mean he hated the place im sure many people in ireland wanted to remain british
A note on the history of the ruined house (Dangan Castle) in Ireland. The Wellesley family sold it in the 1780s. In 1809, it was mostly burned to the ground as part of an insurance fraud scheme. Eight years later, the owner and his estate manager were arrested for robbing a mail coach (he was eventually aquitted). The house was after that abandoned and what remained of it fell into ruin.
@vidman163 A famous quote by Wellington at the Waterloo was "Give me night, or give me Blucher". It was a close run thing but Wellington's army was still on the field as the Prussians began to arrive and they counter-attacked in tandem with the Prussians and drove the French from the field. To try to portray Wellington's Army as a beaten force before Blucher's arrival is to do that army a great disservice. Wellington couldn't win without Blucher and Blucher couldn't win without Wellington.
Yes and no, when the British Guards volley fired into Napoleons advancing Imperial Guard at close range, and created their uncontrolable route it was over, the French line crumbled and routed.
Arthur Wellesley was very proud to be an Irishman. That comment about being born in a stable does not make a man a horse was never made by the Duke of wellington but by Daniel O'Connell who was jealous that Arther and not him was Irelands greatest Irishman.
+freebeerfordworkers Your one dumb Brit for thinking I have bad English. Irish people speak better and Write better then English then the British/English.
@vidman163 The night before the battle Wellington sent a message to Blucher telling him that if at least 1 Corps of Prussian could be brought in support he would fight at Waterloo but if not he would concede the field without a fight. Blucher's reply reached him the morning of the battle and he promised to bring most of his army. Wellington's plans were to delay until Blucher arrived so they could counter-attack together thus. Blucher's arrival was a part of Wellington's plan.
thank you for saying that because hes my great great great great granfather! i found this out not to long ago and my name is wat u may ask...well its sebastien delawar wellesley! i know a lot of u wont believe me but i will try to tell tell u my family, sister=matilda delawar dad=alister wellesley mom=daniela delawar thank you guys for listening!
@Freez57fr Wellington beat every French Commander ever sent against him and some of them had their reputations ruined by him. He never lost a major battle against any French Commander and his victories at Assaye, Salamanca and Vitoria were as good as any won during the Napoleonic War. His only comtemporary in term of battle/campaigns won for the period is Aleksandr Suvorov. Waterloo wasn't won because of Blucher's arrival - it was fought becasue Blucher was going to arrive.
El duque de Wellington fue un destacado militar, estadista y político británico de origen Irlandés que nació en Dublín, Irlanda en 1769 y falleció en Walmer, Inglaterra en 1852. El duque de Wellington es conocido históricamente por haber derrotado a Napoleón Bonaparte en la batalla de Waterloo el 18 de Junio del año 1815 en el siglo XIX.
Norman-Gaels were the big families in Ireland. Iron Duke had Welsh and Irish heritage, and English. He employed mainly Irish men in India, and in Europe, both Catholic and Protestant. He never said the 'born in a stable' quote, and, like Burke, was a proud Irishman moonlighting as an English gent. Irish gentry had a distinct identity, and the Anglo-Irish in the Pale were often insecure about their working class soldier ancestors, and emulated the great Irish Norman families, who definitely claimed the Gaelic Chieftain heritage of Brian Boru and the UI Neil dynasties of the North. Oscar Wilde was of the Anglo-Irish, but the English side had Bricklayers from Hull, but the Irish side the Chieftains and the Norman connections. His mother was an Irish nationalist.
I'd love to have seen the faces of his classmates who remembered him only for playing with his dog when he defeated Napoleon and later when he became Prime Minister. They probably didn't amount to anything.
The Colley or Cowley family had lived in that part of Kildare since the time of Wellington's ancestor, Sir Henry Colley or Cowley, who died before 2 October 1584.[194] Sir Henry in his lifetime possessed Carbury Castle, in north-west Kildare.[195]
@vidman163 It was not Blucher alone who won the battle. His forces arrived at the right time to tip the scales in the Coalitions favor however Wellington had only conducted the battle as a static defensive with the sole purpose of waiting for Blucher's arrival so he could overwhelm Napoleon's forces with numbers. Wellington's part in the victory is therefore not lessened in anyway by Blucher's arrival, nor does Blucher's arrival render Wellington's conduct before that worthless.
The first part deals with him going to India and coming back to England, after a successful military career there. The 2nd and 3rd parts deal with the Peninsular war and the Battle of Waterloo respectively.
@TMDF100 As for the Portuguese and Spanish forces being at those battles I listed the question follows, who commanded those battles? I think you'll find it was Wellington. Wellington who became Generalisimo, the commander of all British, Portuguese and Spanish forces in the Peninsular war. That being said, their presence takes no credit away from Wellington for the victories.
everything in this serie is authentic. The clothes, locations and interior. Then why is the music not played on historical instruments. Historians needs to know more about music performance. But very very good serie. Is it possible to buy this somewhere. I've tried Amazon uk with no luck. Can someone help me.
great man, great documentaries, now all we have are 'quest' or 'discovery' style docummentaries aimed at the lowest common denominator presented by 'experts' aka childrens presenters.
Colley is a surname of English origin.[196] However, Colley or Cowley is also an Anglicised form of Mac Amhalghaidh, a family who were lords of Cálraighe in Chalaid in what is now County Westmeath.[197] This family were claimed descent from the 5th-century Irish king, Niall of the Nine Hostages, and had the following genealogy ("m" indicates "son of"):
@LeHappiste So...what about Rolica, Vimeiro, Grijo, 2nd Porto, Talavera, Bussaco, Torres Vedras, Fuentes de Onoro, Cuidad Rodrigo, Badajoz, Salamanca, Vitoria, 1nd San Sabastian, Pyrenees, Sorauren, Bidassoa, Nivelle, Nive, Garris and Orthez? All battles which Wellington won without the aide of the Prussians, all battles which Wellington successfully defeated the French tactically or strategically.
yep i even did a little looking into it just in case i MAY have been wrong but sorry u are the one who turned out to be a PRAT lol the link is to 5 high king of ireland niall of the 9 hostages as he is known in old irish history and it is from the colley side of the dukes family which is an old irish family name from kildare
***** My understanding is that he did have to defend himself at the battle of Assaye (one of his earlier battles in India) when his horse went astray into the enemy lines alongside his own men. In most cases, though, he was 'on the sidelines' directing his troops and making tactical decisions. This is what generals tend to do, and they can't really do this if they're also fighting hand-to-hand with the enemy.
nelsons being on deck with his rank and gold braid probably got him shot,wellington was always within range of danger at the front in plain clothes to advise and encourage his troops.he was not loved by his sub ordintes the way nelson was,but he was respected,and lived a fairly successful life as a general but was a fool to go into politics.apparantley called the iron duke in referance to the shutters on his own windows,so not loved by the people i guess.
@vidman163 Waterloo was only fought because Blucher was due to arrive...Napoleon didn't win Waterloo and never would've...he always underestimated his enemies (describing Wellington as the Sepoy General) ... this is always a fatal trait..
Never say never. Hindsight is very safe hill and says that Napoleon should have had a great go at, and once again rout the exhausted, piecemeal and scattered arriving Prussian Corps in detail.⚔🕓 ↪ ↪
of people who are anglo-irish even peers and they see themselves as irish. and i doubt if many of your contry men or women would see your queen as a german national lol as much as i like the idea
@GGSDavejones First off he did not change his name to wellington, that was his title. Wellington is a place and he was the Duke OF Wellington, His name was allways Arthur Wellesly, did you think his name was Arthur Wellington?? And secondley. To quote A leading authoritey in the matter '' his father was born a Colley of castle Carbury, a member of a family that had originated in the English midlands and had lived in ireland for 300 years without a single irish name appearing on its pedigree.
But most of the wives of these so called Anglo-Irish were of Norman Gaelic origin. They married into the Fitzgeralds and Butlers, all of whom have Gaelic antecedents as well as Norman. Wellesley's family weren't as rich or as distinguished as the Norman-Irish families.
The following is the dictionary definition of the word nationality ''Membership of a nation in the sense of ethnic group (a group of people who share a common ethnic identity, language, culture, descent, history, and so forth). This meaning of nationality is not defined by political borders or passport ownership and includes nations that lack an independent state (such as the Scots, Welsh, English, Basques, Kurds, Inuit and Māori).'' notice how it says not defined by political borders.
part 2 ...born into the peerage system from lord adare to lord mountcharles see themselves as irish my father as a child played with adares who were part of that system and did have a british accents but i can tell u now despite their ancestry they saw themselves as IRISH and still do just as many irish-americans see themselves as americans first irish 2nd listen to holmes when he says the 2 cultures that influenced him were IRELAND and INDIA ..u can talk about pedigree all u want it will not
rofl u can always tell when someone is struggling in a debate when they start the name calling and no i would not say wellington is a hero of mine but when i see someone come out with rubbish about race and nationality i just have to reply first of all there is a difference between nationality and ethnicity lets take your logic on nationality if u were right then 75% of the people on the islands could have 9 or 10 different nationalities depending if great grandparents were born in ten
except for the fact that he did not want ireland to move outside the union which was why o connell used the words just because one is born in a stable does not make one a horse ie o connell was saying because wellington did not want irish national freedom it made him less irish many say the same about ulster unionists today but they would see themselves every bit as irish as a person from cork
You have seen the link, you now know beyond any doubt that he is not descended from king niall but of a family from gloscestershire who did not marry into any irish family and yet you wont admit it. Do you know about the british raj? and the smilarities to ireland in that period? The English aristocracy would have deemed the irish too beneath them to marry and have children with. He was refered to as Irish in the same way cardigan refered to men who had served in india as 'indian' soldiers.
A native of india born in England is a british citizen but they are not English. They are Indian. Alot of indian families come over here and only marry other indians, this makes them british citizens but they are still 100% Indian. The Colleys and other famillies with them lived in ireland for many years but only married other English families. The result was they were refered to as Anglo-irish but were 100% English. It was the same with the British Raj in the 19th century.
Norman-Gaels were the big families in Ireland. Iron Duke had Welsh and Irish heritage, and English. He employed mainly Irish men in India, and in Europe, both Catholic and Protestant. He never said the 'born in a stable' quote, and, like Burke, was a proud Irishman moonlighting as an English gent. Irish gentry had a distinct identity, and the Anglo-Irish in the Pale were often insecure about their working class soldier ancestors, and emulated the great Irish Norman families, who definitely claimed the Gaelic Chieftain heritage of Brian Boru and the UI Neil dynasties of the North. Oscar Wilde was of the Anglo-Irish, but the English side had Bricklayers from Hull, but the Irish side the Chieftains and the Norman connections. His mother was an Irish nationalist.
now i know that you have your knowledge from the 1970 soviet film ´waterloo´.^^ so than tell me, please^^, what was wellingtons plan at waterloo that apparently nobody else knew?^^ oh and that tell me how napoleons marshals knew the great battle plan from napoleon?^^ but im sure that the "band of brothers" were better than wellingtons clueless marshals/generals^^ and who would haven been there to replace napoleon? just try to look at the other side of your arguments to see your mistakes..
Those who want to see what wellington did against the French when there were no prussians to save his asses, just type "siege of Burgos" and "Battle of Redinha" in wikipédia
oh dear...sigh..Well one can check the dukes family tree which is widely available online or you can go to london and look at hard copies or you can read richard holmes's bio on the man where he tells you on page 6 i think how he has not got a single irish name on his pedigree. Also if your family came from England then you too are English. Your nationality is a question of blood you would have English blood no matter where in the world you is born. A Nation is a group of about people not land.
@LeHappiste Interesting that you pick the only siege Wellington failed to win and a minor skirmish that did nothing to prevent Wellington achieving his overall campaign aims as examples of his inabilty to defeat the French where there are so many examples of him beating them, sometimes on his own, sometimes with allies. You just make yourself look foolish when you do that.
Lol. "The iron Duke" was an insult. He was such an unpopular PM that people threw rocks and fruit at the windows of Appsley House. As a result, he had iron shutters installed....hence, the "Iron Duke". 😂
i think u are the prat..wellington was born in ireland and his family lines go back all the way to irish high kings he even married an irish woman was an mp for irish midlands . a statement wrongly attributed to wellington and used in this show was in fact used by a fellow irish man against him other than that there is no evidence to say wellington had any problem with the land of his birth
Danile O'Connell said it, in jest. Apparently, Wellington mainly employed Irishmen, Protestant and Catholic, as his senior aids. There's an Irish Times article on it. Google should bring it up. He was very Irish in inclinations, and, like Burke, used a double consciousness to achieve his aims.
look if im wrong why do peers in ireland decribe themselves as irish after all is that not what the dukes family were in ireland unless u are saying there is a difference between an anglo-irish family who have been in ireland for 300 years and an anglo-irish family today that would have been in ireland 400 years
yes, Marlborough's military genius was comparable with Alexander, Ceaser or Napoleon, but he was destroyed by political intrigue, which is why he is so unknown today.
Yes but it does matter. The duke was born on a peice of land, it could have been any land. What if his pregnant mother had travelled to spain? would he be spanish? Its all about parentage. Your father is yours specifically, he gave you all your genes, eye colour, skin tone blood type etc.. and of course he got it from his and so on. so as long as your blood is not diluted down the line if your ancestors came from England then you would be English no matter what peice of land you were born on.
lol i think u may be the one that needs to read a few books numpty!!!! as i have seen with my own eyes (i.e read) that this was a claim of the wesly family themselves lol i am passing on the info sorry if it does not fit. 2nd if ireland was a colony then why were there irish mps just as in scotland or wales and before i forget my famliy came from england but i was born in ireland which makes me 100% irish
have you looked at the link i gave you which proves he is English? So what your saying is that if someone picked up every irish person with their thousands of years of celtic history and culture and plonked them in India all their children born thereafter would be Indian, and would have a completely different heritage and cultural background just because they were born on a different peice of land?
here is a helping hand for you, go to the web site called glosgen.co.uk search for Robert Cowley of Dublin and his line. in the families section go to the bottom of the page and click on Cowley/Colley. That will tell you everything you need to know and give a direct descent all the way to the great duke himself. In all seriousness please look at the link, it tells you everything you need to know. Good day.
@TMDF100 The argument that Wellington was some kind of sub-standard generals because he had allies who helped him win is a pathetic argument. What's more, it completely ignores the fact that two thirds of Napoleon's was not French thus making Napoleon a viable target for the same accusation. From 1808 to 1812 the only major theater in the war in Europe. That Napoleon neglected it is his failing and cannot be held against Wellington.
and seeing as you place so much faith in mr holmes why does he call the duke an IRISH man abroad and not ENGLISH. give it up sunshine the fantasy is over
and holmes here says he was anglo-IRISH or did that fact get passed you remember u claimed i was a prat for saying the family themselves claimed to be related to irish kings i called u on it 1 other thing as i have already said holmes was wrong when he claimed the duke made the claim about stables and ireland when in fact it was another irish mp (daniel o connell) who cast the slur on the duke and im sure many books have been done .try reading a few..good luck
wow for a guy that knows about the history of the duke of wellington he got 1 quote badly wrong wellington never uttered the words about being born in a stable not making one a horse that was something o connell said about him because he felt that wellington did not do enough as primeminister to bring in catholic freedoms in ireland
Ok, have it your way, and dont forget that country he was part of back then was britain, so i guess by your logic he would have seen himself as british, English by blood and just born in a different part of the country. As for his roots, i do not have to take it up with the family, i have his official family tree.
if that happened then ethnically they would still be irish but if born in india they would have as much right to call themselves an indian national no matter what the colour of their skin or how they lived.. as for the link it still has nothing to do with the fact that wellington was irish born went to school in ireland and when he got older and went to eton by all accounts hated the place until he left for belgium as i said i have seen nothing that says wellington had any problem with ireland
You have never heard of a family who have lived in a country for 300 years without seeing themselves as part of that country? You obviosly do not know of the Moorish Nasrid Dynasty, who ruled spain from 1212 to 1492 when they surrendered the country back to the spanish and returned home. They did not see themselves as Spanis, they were Arabs.
RIP Richard Holmes, one of favorite British historians, from a Yank living across the Pond.
A fellow loyalist ?
Rest in Peace Prof Holmes, loves reading your books on the Iron Duke, and like some many have said before im sure The Iron Duke will be waiting for you!!
Duke of Wellington is one of my favorite generals. And it is funny how both the Duke and Napoleon's private life were upsidedown. Their love life were all over the place and yet they became legends on the battlefield.
+Pinta Dubbs He is hated in Ireland because he was British Protestant imperialist.
Robert Kelly there is no evidence he hated ireland in fact the horses and stables comment attributed to him was not true... it was in fact something o,connell said about him in parliament
imedi Really duke Wellington loved Ireland but didn't think Fenians united Irish men were right
i have no doubt he wanted ireland to remain british and hated fenians however wanting ireland to remain as part of the union did not mean he hated the place im sure many people in ireland wanted to remain british
imedi But he supported Catholics needing rights Emancipation .
A note on the history of the ruined house (Dangan Castle) in Ireland. The Wellesley family sold it in the 1780s. In 1809, it was mostly burned to the ground as part of an insurance fraud scheme. Eight years later, the owner and his estate manager were arrested for robbing a mail coach (he was eventually aquitted). The house was after that abandoned and what remained of it fell into ruin.
@vidman163 A famous quote by Wellington at the Waterloo was "Give me night, or give me Blucher". It was a close run thing but Wellington's army was still on the field as the Prussians began to arrive and they counter-attacked in tandem with the Prussians and drove the French from the field. To try to portray Wellington's Army as a beaten force before Blucher's arrival is to do that army a great disservice. Wellington couldn't win without Blucher and Blucher couldn't win without Wellington.
Yes and no, when the British Guards volley fired into Napoleons advancing Imperial Guard at close range, and created their uncontrolable route it was over, the French line crumbled and routed.
RIP Richard Holmes. He spoke as a natural Englishman, full of passion. Rationally proud of his great country. He brought all these things to life.
Strangely enough, still the best Wellington documentary out there.
Arthur Wellesley was very proud to be an Irishman. That comment about being born in a stable does not make a man a horse was never made by the Duke of wellington but by Daniel O'Connell who was jealous that Arther and not him was Irelands greatest Irishman.
Now, there is a man that I wish I could have met!
My Colley ancestor, daily teaching me lessons.
I am mexican, but my personal hero is Wellington, because of him I do fancy and admire England...
Only England?
Not the United Kingdom of Great Britain and (Northern) Ireland?
***** Well all The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the British Common Wealth ;)
J. Omar Sánchez Carrasco God Bless You for saying that.
J. Omar Sánchez Carrasco He hate in he country birth Ireland we tore he statue down.
+freebeerfordworkers Your one dumb Brit for thinking I have bad English. Irish people speak better and Write better then English then the British/English.
@vidman163 The night before the battle Wellington sent a message to Blucher telling him that if at least 1 Corps of Prussian could be brought in support he would fight at Waterloo but if not he would concede the field without a fight. Blucher's reply reached him the morning of the battle and he promised to bring most of his army. Wellington's plans were to delay until Blucher arrived so they could counter-attack together thus. Blucher's arrival was a part of Wellington's plan.
thank you for saying that because hes my great great great great granfather!
i found this out not to long ago and my name is wat u may ask...well its sebastien delawar wellesley!
i know a lot of u wont believe me but i will try to tell tell u my family, sister=matilda delawar dad=alister wellesley mom=daniela delawar
thank you guys for listening!
Then we are relatives. I'm Andrew Wellesley. Hes my ancestor.
Great documentary on Wellington had it in Video also saw it on TV see if I can get it on DVD!😀💂🐴🐎⚔️🇬🇧
a great Leader once dismissed by his own mother as fodder for canon
The greatest war chief that Commonwealth has ever seen.
0:20 LMAO
@Freez57fr Wellington beat every French Commander ever sent against him and some of them had their reputations ruined by him. He never lost a major battle against any French Commander and his victories at Assaye, Salamanca and Vitoria were as good as any won during the Napoleonic War. His only comtemporary in term of battle/campaigns won for the period is Aleksandr Suvorov.
Waterloo wasn't won because of Blucher's arrival - it was fought becasue Blucher was going to arrive.
El duque de Wellington fue un destacado militar, estadista y político británico de origen Irlandés que nació en Dublín, Irlanda en 1769 y falleció en Walmer, Inglaterra en 1852. El duque de Wellington es conocido históricamente por haber derrotado a Napoleón Bonaparte en la batalla de Waterloo el 18 de Junio del año 1815 en el siglo XIX.
Norman-Gaels were the big families in Ireland. Iron Duke had Welsh and Irish heritage, and English. He employed mainly Irish men in India, and in Europe, both Catholic and Protestant. He never said the 'born in a stable' quote, and, like Burke, was a proud Irishman moonlighting as an English gent. Irish gentry had a distinct identity, and the Anglo-Irish in the Pale were often insecure about their working class soldier ancestors, and emulated the great Irish Norman families, who definitely claimed the Gaelic Chieftain heritage of Brian Boru and the UI Neil dynasties of the North. Oscar Wilde was of the Anglo-Irish, but the English side had Bricklayers from Hull, but the Irish side the Chieftains and the Norman connections. His mother was an Irish nationalist.
He did it for the good of the country !
I'd love to have seen the faces of his classmates who remembered him only for playing with his dog when he defeated Napoleon and later when he became Prime Minister. They probably didn't amount to anything.
I approve of this.
Interesting that 2 of Britain's greatest ever Military Leaders Arthur Wellesley and Lord Kitchener were both born in Ireland!🤔💂💂⚔️🌄🔫🇬🇧🇮🇪
Kitchener is nowhere near the level of hundreds of Britain's greatest military leaders
@@rustyrussell7456 Matter Of Opinion!🤨
The Colley or Cowley family had lived in that part of Kildare since the time of Wellington's ancestor, Sir Henry Colley or Cowley, who died before 2 October 1584.[194] Sir Henry in his lifetime possessed Carbury Castle, in north-west Kildare.[195]
Nice.
Wellington apparently hated being called that.
@vidman163 It was not Blucher alone who won the battle. His forces arrived at the right time to tip the scales in the Coalitions favor however Wellington had only conducted the battle as a static defensive with the sole purpose of waiting for Blucher's arrival so he could overwhelm Napoleon's forces with numbers. Wellington's part in the victory is therefore not lessened in anyway by Blucher's arrival, nor does Blucher's arrival render Wellington's conduct before that worthless.
Nelson and Churchill were good, but Arthur Wellesley was a great legend, a true british gentleman.
No historical figure can come close to him
cant find this on dvd anywhere
Wellington was a great leader & hero but Horatio Nelson will always be Britains greatest hero by far!
sharpe!!!
as a Mancunian (ignores the abuse) I think more people should remember the Peterloo masacre
@LeHappiste Even with no Prussians, Ney still did screw up miserably with his cavalry charge at Waterloo
A great Irishman
Before I watch all of this, can anyone tell me what the first part of this 1/5 is about and what the other 2nd 1/5 and 3rd 1/5 are about please?
The first part deals with him going to India and coming back to England, after a successful military career there. The 2nd and 3rd parts deal with the Peninsular war and the Battle of Waterloo respectively.
Haha thanks. I forgot about this. Not sure why I typed this because I watched all of it that day if I recall correctly.
TennisCoachno1 I haven't seen a better documentary on the Duke, this is comprehensive and fast.
Anyway, I personally admire him very much. :)
@TMDF100 As for the Portuguese and Spanish forces being at those battles I listed the question follows, who commanded those battles? I think you'll find it was Wellington. Wellington who became Generalisimo, the commander of all British, Portuguese and Spanish forces in the Peninsular war. That being said, their presence takes no credit away from Wellington for the victories.
everything in this serie is authentic. The clothes, locations and interior. Then why is the music not played on historical instruments. Historians needs to know more about music performance. But very very good serie. Is it possible to buy this somewhere. I've tried Amazon uk with no luck. Can someone help me.
Hey where did you get this DVD from
great man, great documentaries, now all we have are 'quest' or 'discovery' style docummentaries aimed at the lowest common denominator presented by 'experts' aka childrens presenters.
little general and lucky at mont~saint~
~jean !
Colley is a surname of English origin.[196] However, Colley or Cowley is also an Anglicised form of Mac Amhalghaidh, a family who were lords of Cálraighe in Chalaid in what is now County Westmeath.[197] This family were claimed descent from the 5th-century Irish king, Niall of the Nine Hostages, and had the following genealogy ("m" indicates "son of"):
If so, he's my relative since my grandad was a Donegal man, of the UI Neil dynasty
@LeHappiste So...what about Rolica, Vimeiro, Grijo, 2nd Porto, Talavera, Bussaco, Torres Vedras, Fuentes de Onoro, Cuidad Rodrigo, Badajoz, Salamanca, Vitoria, 1nd San Sabastian, Pyrenees, Sorauren, Bidassoa, Nivelle, Nive, Garris and Orthez? All battles which Wellington won without the aide of the Prussians, all battles which Wellington successfully defeated the French tactically or strategically.
yep i even did a little looking into it just in case i MAY have been wrong but sorry u are the one who turned out to be a PRAT lol the link is to 5 high king of ireland niall of the 9 hostages as he is known in old irish history and it is from the colley side of the dukes family which is an old irish family name from kildare
dos anyone know where he is buried
Interesting.
Any one no how to turn auto play On
I quien era wellington sin Napoleon NADIE
Marlborough!
Can anyone tell me did Wellington actually go into Battle or was he always on the sidelines?
***** My understanding is that he did have to defend himself at the battle of Assaye (one of his earlier battles in India) when his horse went astray into the enemy lines alongside his own men. In most cases, though, he was 'on the sidelines' directing his troops and making tactical decisions. This is what generals tend to do, and they can't really do this if they're also fighting hand-to-hand with the enemy.
+Ian Excalibur Sidelines like all Generals let other people do the dying and take the glory for yourself.
+Robert Kelly It's just that I know Nelson actually went into battle and in full Admiralty dress. But I can't understand all the fuss over Wellington
***** Wellington protected the Uk from French Napoleon rule he was commander of armed forces beside the monahrchey .
nelsons being on deck with his rank and gold braid probably got him shot,wellington was always within range of danger at the front in plain clothes to advise and encourage his troops.he was not loved by his sub ordintes the way nelson was,but he was respected,and lived a fairly successful life as a general but was a fool to go into politics.apparantley called the iron duke in referance to the shutters on his own windows,so not loved by the people i guess.
@vidman163 Waterloo was only fought because Blucher was due to arrive...Napoleon didn't win Waterloo and never would've...he always underestimated his enemies (describing Wellington as the Sepoy General) ... this is always a fatal trait..
Never say never.
Hindsight is very safe hill and says that Napoleon should have had a great go at, and once again rout the exhausted, piecemeal and scattered arriving Prussian Corps in detail.⚔🕓
↪
↪
Wellesly never said the "born in a stable doesnt mske you a horse" line
in case u are a bit slow the key words there were (nation in the sense)
i starting to think the lights are on but nobodies home rofl english blood english heart lol and the family in ireland for 300 years jeeez rofl
of people who are anglo-irish even peers and they see themselves as irish. and i doubt if many of your contry men or women would see your queen as a german national lol as much as i like the idea
What about Churchill?
Lol banter
simply too cool :D I believe you why would you bother to type it if it wasnt true.
ahhhhhhhh its sinking in at long last yes and if u go back i said that in the first place that he would have seen himself as british
@GGSDavejones First off he did not change his name to wellington, that was his title. Wellington is a place and he was the Duke OF Wellington, His name was allways Arthur Wellesly, did you think his name was Arthur Wellington?? And secondley. To quote A leading authoritey in the matter '' his father was born a Colley of castle Carbury, a member of a family that had originated in the English midlands and had lived in ireland for 300 years without a single irish name appearing on its pedigree.
But most of the wives of these so called Anglo-Irish were of Norman Gaelic origin. They married into the Fitzgeralds and Butlers, all of whom have Gaelic antecedents as well as Norman. Wellesley's family weren't as rich or as distinguished as the Norman-Irish families.
The following is the dictionary definition of the word nationality ''Membership of a nation in the sense of ethnic group (a group of people who share a common ethnic identity, language, culture, descent, history, and so forth). This meaning of nationality is not defined by political borders or passport ownership and includes nations that lack an independent state (such as the Scots, Welsh, English, Basques, Kurds, Inuit and Māori).'' notice how it says not defined by political borders.
How about Horatio Hornblower
part 2 ...born into the peerage system from lord adare to lord mountcharles see themselves as irish my father as a child played with adares who were part of that system and did have a british accents but i can tell u now despite their ancestry they saw themselves as IRISH and still do just as many irish-americans see themselves as americans first irish 2nd listen to holmes when he says the 2 cultures that influenced him were IRELAND and INDIA ..u can talk about pedigree all u want it will not
rofl u can always tell when someone is struggling in a debate when they start the name calling and no i would not say wellington is a hero of mine but when i see someone come out with rubbish about race and nationality i just have to reply first of all there is a difference between nationality and ethnicity lets take your logic on nationality if u were right then 75% of the people on the islands could have 9 or 10 different nationalities depending if great grandparents were born in ten
Jack Churchill.
@TMDF100 even during that point in the War the British were still outnumbered by the French in the Peninsula
except for the fact that he did not want ireland to move outside the union which was why o connell used the words just because one is born in a stable does not make one a horse ie o connell was saying because wellington did not want irish national freedom it made him less irish many say the same about ulster unionists today but they would see themselves every bit as irish as a person from cork
You have seen the link, you now know beyond any doubt that he is not descended from king niall but of a family from gloscestershire who did not marry into any irish family and yet you wont admit it. Do you know about the british raj? and the smilarities to ireland in that period? The English aristocracy would have deemed the irish too beneath them to marry and have children with. He was refered to as Irish in the same way cardigan refered to men who had served in india as 'indian' soldiers.
and i dont see where the cultures of english and irish gentry would be all that different anyway
Thats right the English family lived in ireland for 300 years, they remain English. Are you learning now?
That's in WW2
and in relation to king niall that was a claim of the dukes family themselves no point in talking to me about it.... take it up with them lol
A native of india born in England is a british citizen but they are not English. They are Indian. Alot of indian families come over here and only marry other indians, this makes them british citizens but they are still 100% Indian. The Colleys and other famillies with them lived in ireland for many years but only married other English families. The result was they were refered to as Anglo-irish but were 100% English. It was the same with the British Raj in the 19th century.
Norman-Gaels were the big families in Ireland. Iron Duke had Welsh and Irish heritage, and English. He employed mainly Irish men in India, and in Europe, both Catholic and Protestant. He never said the 'born in a stable' quote, and, like Burke, was a proud Irishman moonlighting as an English gent. Irish gentry had a distinct identity, and the Anglo-Irish in the Pale were often insecure about their working class soldier ancestors, and emulated the great Irish Norman families, who definitely claimed the Gaelic Chieftain heritage of Brian Boru and the UI Neil dynasties of the North. Oscar Wilde was of the Anglo-Irish, but the English side had Bricklayers from Hull, but the Irish side the Chieftains and the Norman connections. His mother was an Irish nationalist.
now i know that you have your knowledge from the 1970 soviet film ´waterloo´.^^
so than tell me, please^^, what was wellingtons plan at waterloo that apparently nobody else knew?^^ oh and that tell me how napoleons marshals knew the great battle plan from napoleon?^^ but im sure that the "band of brothers" were better than wellingtons clueless marshals/generals^^ and who would haven been there to replace napoleon? just try to look at the other side of your arguments to see your mistakes..
Those who want to see what wellington did against the French when there were no prussians to save his asses, just type "siege of Burgos" and "Battle of Redinha" in wikipédia
oh dear...sigh..Well one can check the dukes family tree which is widely available online or you can go to london and look at hard copies or you can read richard holmes's bio on the man where he tells you on page 6 i think how he has not got a single irish name on his pedigree. Also if your family came from England then you too are English. Your nationality is a question of blood you would have English blood no matter where in the world you is born. A Nation is a group of about people not land.
I mad no claim about wellington sleeping around? I dont know what you are talking about
@Freez57fr played deffensive, and won, fair enough dont you think?
far fewer casualties if that means anything good at the time, or any other time...
@LeHappiste Interesting that you pick the only siege Wellington failed to win and a minor skirmish that did nothing to prevent Wellington achieving his overall campaign aims as examples of his inabilty to defeat the French where there are so many examples of him beating them, sometimes on his own, sometimes with allies. You just make yourself look foolish when you do that.
Lol. "The iron Duke" was an insult. He was such an unpopular PM that people threw rocks and fruit at the windows of Appsley House.
As a result, he had iron shutters installed....hence, the "Iron Duke". 😂
i think u are the prat..wellington was born in ireland and his family lines go back all the way to irish high kings he even married an irish woman was an mp for irish midlands . a statement wrongly attributed to wellington and used in this show was in fact used by a fellow irish man against him other than that there is no evidence to say wellington had any problem with the land of his birth
Danile O'Connell said it, in jest. Apparently, Wellington mainly employed Irishmen, Protestant and Catholic, as his senior aids. There's an Irish Times article on it. Google should bring it up. He was very Irish in inclinations, and, like Burke, used a double consciousness to achieve his aims.
blucher won the battle !
look if im wrong why do peers in ireland decribe themselves as irish after all is that not what the dukes family were in ireland unless u are saying there is a difference between an anglo-irish family who have been in ireland for 300 years and an anglo-irish family today that would have been in ireland 400 years
yes, Marlborough's military genius was comparable with Alexander, Ceaser or Napoleon, but he was destroyed by political intrigue, which is why he is so unknown today.
Yes but it does matter. The duke was born on a peice of land, it could have been any land. What if his pregnant mother had travelled to spain? would he be spanish? Its all about parentage. Your father is yours specifically, he gave you all your genes, eye colour, skin tone blood type etc.. and of course he got it from his and so on. so as long as your blood is not diluted down the line if your ancestors came from England then you would be English no matter what peice of land you were born on.
lol i think u may be the one that needs to read a few books numpty!!!! as i have seen with my own eyes (i.e read) that this was a claim of the wesly family themselves lol i am passing on the info sorry if it does not fit. 2nd if ireland was a colony then why were there irish mps just as in scotland or wales and before i forget my famliy came from england but i was born in ireland which makes me 100% irish
Calder didn't do the same thing he was beaten and court marshaled.
have you looked at the link i gave you which proves he is English? So what your saying is that if someone picked up every irish person with their thousands of years of celtic history and culture and plonked them in India all their children born thereafter would be Indian, and would have a completely different heritage and cultural background just because they were born on a different peice of land?
here is a helping hand for you, go to the web site called glosgen.co.uk search for Robert Cowley of Dublin and his line. in the families section go to the bottom of the page and click on Cowley/Colley. That will tell you everything you need to know and give a direct descent all the way to the great duke himself. In all seriousness please look at the link, it tells you everything you need to know. Good day.
Ironic how his military education started in France!
RIP richard holmes one of the best documentary historians :(
@TMDF100 The argument that Wellington was some kind of sub-standard generals because he had allies who helped him win is a pathetic argument. What's more, it completely ignores the fact that two thirds of Napoleon's was not French thus making Napoleon a viable target for the same accusation.
From 1808 to 1812 the only major theater in the war in Europe. That Napoleon neglected it is his failing and cannot be held against Wellington.
3@@@
and seeing as you place so much faith in mr holmes why does he call the duke an IRISH man abroad and not ENGLISH. give it up sunshine the fantasy is over
and holmes here says he was anglo-IRISH or did that fact get passed you remember u claimed i was a prat for saying the family themselves claimed to be related to irish kings i called u on it 1 other thing as i have already said holmes was wrong when he claimed the duke made the claim about stables and ireland when in fact it was another irish mp (daniel o connell) who cast the slur on the duke and im sure many books have been done .try reading a few..good luck
wow for a guy that knows about the history of the duke of wellington he got 1 quote badly wrong wellington never uttered the words about being born in a stable not making one a horse that was something o connell said about him because he felt that wellington did not do enough as primeminister to bring in catholic freedoms in ireland
Ok, have it your way, and dont forget that country he was part of back then was britain, so i guess by your logic he would have seen himself as british, English by blood and just born in a different part of the country. As for his roots, i do not have to take it up with the family, i have his official family tree.
if that happened then ethnically they would still be irish but if born in india they would have as much right to call themselves an indian national no matter what the colour of their skin or how they lived.. as for the link it still has nothing to do with the fact that wellington was irish born went to school in ireland and when he got older and went to eton by all accounts hated the place until he left for belgium as i said i have seen nothing that says wellington had any problem with ireland
You have never heard of a family who have lived in a country for 300 years without seeing themselves as part of that country? You obviosly do not know of the Moorish Nasrid Dynasty, who ruled spain from 1212 to 1492 when they surrendered the country back to the spanish and returned home. They did not see themselves as Spanis, they were Arabs.
Of course the queen is german, who said she wasnt?