Another great video. The major problem with factory engine cooling system design. Is the coolant flows from the water pump into the lower part of the engine and then to the rear of the block and then up into the cylinder heads and then works its way to the front of the cylinder heads where it returns to the rad. So what you are doing w this design is you are putting the hot water from the block into the heads and the intake manifold. This is why you will have detonation problems. So What I did on my race car in the mid 80s was to reverse the entire system. So the coolest water enters the rear of the heads and flows down into the block and forward and then out at the water pump inlets, back to the rad. I had this system on my EMC entries. We could run 220 PSI cranking on 87 octane, and when we would run 92 it would lose power. No Stat. let the engine run the temp it wanted to, and that was in the car around 160 to 170 deg. NEVER put hot water in the intake manifold. I ran this system on my street n/a 406 SBC. I could drive 100 miles to the race track, on 87 and thru the mufflers run 9.90s at 131 and then drive it home again. So what I have learned is COOL the hot part of the engine first. Oh yes it was an aluminum head engine.
220 psi, awesome, I remember Joe Sherman saying he would go there on pump gas too. I love the idea of running the water through the heads first. I'll try at some point.
With 11k viewers, I'd say your doing something right..lol I feel bad for the ones who haven't found you yet, but they will find their way, sir... Cheers from SC
It's good to see North Carolina,...,an expert is some one who is 500 miles away, us Canadian's are a pretty smart bunch, but we have learned from the best in the USA!
Octane allows more compression which will make more power, an engine likes a certain amount of timing which can be determined by combustion chamber design, piston size/shape ect... some LS engine like 29degrees and you can crank them up to 34-36 and not make more power
Hey AG, Tim here, again, i apologize for arguing via ur chanel with a certain individual, since i respect you/ur chanel, i will refrain from attacks......its difficult sometimes, cuz of my passion, and reading a persons comment that bashes YOU, when they are VASTLY wrong, grates on me......but maybe i shud make my statement, and leave it alone.....we cant fix the uninformed, and YES, i dont know everything either, but i DO have yrs of toil with engines, and seen ALOT, i will, from now on, make my statement, and then leave it be, i had no intention of disrespecting you.......GREAT vid this morn......i hope we move fwd, and we can enjoy your vids w/o any attacks......TY for ur time!!...PEACE to you sir....
Another great video, Allan. Thanks for the good technical discussion. I'm learning something new each time I watch one of your videos. Keep them coming.
Volumetric efficiency also sdds to cylinder pressure at high rpm, can add 8 to 12 percent off total cylinder volume, it happens at higher rpm and you may not hear it especially with open headers or loud exhaust, good video Alan.....you never stop thinking!!
Excellent video, well planned and executed. I used to have a high compression engine, and I know about the diminishing return. I diminished my bank account having to buy starters over and over, then finally a Tilton Superstarter.
I have TWO very low mileage rebuilt SBC 400's. One is a large front serial pad '78 that I pulled out of a motorhome, the other a short pad that a friend stopped by on his way to the scrapyard. .BOTH have detonated pistons(one has TRW forged) with blown out ring lands ! BTW, to me getting old is forgetting half of what I learned decades ago !!😉
Great video to explain some of the mystery lol, In Australia we can readily get 98 pump fuel. so we can run higher CR, I typically go for 200PSI, eg my 406SBC has 12:1 CR, 8.8DC, gives me 200psi. made 642HP 547ftlbs. run zero deck, 0.38 quench. 24 deg initial; 33 Total timing. Engine temp normally around 170 deg. I have seen 220psi run no problem on a windsor 347 also. Again Great video. Cheers from Australia
Hello Australia, my #3 country next to Canada and USA. Thanks for the info. That is a nice combo and you are fortunate to be able to run those numbers on pump gas. good work. AG
Really liked your comment, I have a 1st gen. 10.7 to 1 399ci. stroker that makes 641@6400 and 560ft lbs.@5700 on 91 pump with Brodix C-Series 18* cut to 17* heads.
I enjoy your channel ! My highschool addiction was Pontiac.. 1968 Pontiac .060 400 with 13 casting heads. Many things done for perfect tune. Lunati solid cam and Torquer 2 Intake and tricked Holley 750 dbl pmpr and Hooker Super Comp Headers. 3700rpm stall and 4.56 posi 1st night out, it went 12.41 @ 11mph. (79 firebird, street tires and exhaust) It never saw another night because marital problems. Now, 38 years later, Im redoing ground up a 1970 Nova I subd
Good info sir! I would like to add, good quench and swirl will help alot. Also i have been seeing good info on water and water/methanol injection. David Vizard has a good video on these.
“Disagreement is the pursuit of truth when all are participating in good faith.” This is why I block trolls who bear no understanding of themselves. It is a waste of time to engage with them.
Very nice I like to see the Brits playing with S-10's, don't hear much on 307 but it's definitely a better choice than a 305. I run a 94 Sonoma in Olean NY. until I retire next year and move it back to my hometown Windsor Ont.
@@waynetessier481 sweet man love the sonomas, i actually bought the truck under the impression it was a 350 however later discovered it was a 307! but i still enjoy it and look forward to seeing what numbers i can get out of it
Old time drag racers loved to use the word dwell. Points dwell - dwell angle, dwell deg, etc. Piston dwell is one that comes to mind I've heard. It can be interchangeable with quench time as expressed in crank angle degreed. There is formula I've forgotten because I don't 'assemble' engines anymore. However, piston dwell is more efficient the longer the piston hangs out before TDC and after TDC within the effective quench area. The more quench time keeps fuel air out - OUT of the quench areas most suseptible to detonation. A general rule that's actually been proven true many times is the longer the connecting rods - the longer the quench time will be. Hope that is clear as mud.
Everything you said is clear and does make sense. Thanks for commenting Madd. I think the formula you were looking for is connecting rod length/stroke. AG
Great list , and well presented. Only thing I would add is outside air temperature. Hot dry desert air here in Arizona with very little moisture to cool the intake charge can cause it to detonate. Also, loading the engine with A/C in that 110 * heat . I had a new Bronco in '87 that had that death rattle no matter what I did with fuel. It made it to 85,000 miles, and the pistons were toast. No doubt emission controls had it running lean. On a cool rainy day, it was happy. We run 91 oct. Chevron here in our hot rods.
There are many right answers. There is more than 1 right way to do things. As far as carbon I remember my auto tech teacher who was from Holland show us how to get rid of it. He always had a coffee cup in his hand, always. One day he was showing us under the hood of a car. It was running, he took off the air cleaner, revved up the engine and poured a drink in the carb. We laughed, it was un expected. He steamed cleaned the cylinders with coffee.
You certainly gave me a lot to think about and try on my Oldsmobile. I’m running a carburetor so that can change my mixture anytime and I’ll have no idea. I will try those ignition changes to hopefully get rid of the detonation problem.
I still wonder if I'd get better acceleration with less compression and more advance. I've read that the better the head, the less advance needed? My 418 ls3 scr is 11.9, dcr 8.8, quench .041, compression test dry results 205-220psi but with carbon build-up on pistons. An unmodified version of my oem heads generally likes 22-24° advance. Mine are milled for compression, the least advance which gives the best acceleration is ~19°. Curb weight w/o occupants 3360, 1st gear 2.66, final drive 3.73, TR6 plugs, 180 tstat. I use the best 9x fuel wherever I need to fill up, I don't use >E10. My best accel times are at .83-.89 lambda depending on rpm range. I had to relocate the oem ls1 knock sensors compatible with my ecm from the valley cover to side of block, which means the knock detection isn't as good, so I error on slightly less advance because I'm not confident in the knock detection.
Big Thx for taking Time putting up one of the best Organized, Intelligent & Helpful '60's --'70's oriented "Muscle Car" era High Perf engine channels !! .....Detonation engine Protection while running on the Octane/CR edge is real Challenge with so Many variables & build Mistakes sometimes difficult to correct for customer & some Oem brands worst than others....Late '50's & all '60's Pontiac Oems seem Prone to Pre-Ignt & Detonation more than other GM's....Definitely engine builders taking Chances with Over 180 Psi crank numbers.....Can Detonation happen in the Top Rpm range where it's Harder to Hear ??
Stoichiometric on pure gasoline is 14.7:1. When you have ethanol as most gasoline now has, the ethanol stoichiometric ratio is "richer". This means E10 which is common now requires more like 14.0 to 14.3:1.
I'm not even building a v8 , or v6 or i6. I em building an inline 4. Even so , its not even a petrol engine. Its a turbo diesel. Not even direct injection . Its indirect. As those what I can find for cheap , and they rev up quite high for a diesel. About 5k or so rpm. Still i enjoy your videos . The basic principles apply . Both are piston engines. Keep up the good work.
I have had good results at around 9:1 dynamic compression with iron heads and 9.5:1 with aluminum. The 10.25:1 static, 9:1 dynamic 350 with iron Vortec I am running performs great on 87 octane. The 11:1 383 with aluminum heads is at 9.5:1 dynamic and performs best on 91+ although it will run all day long on 87 with the timing at 30* total at WOT.
@@jarheaded9278 GM 94666492 was $105 shipped to my door billet steel hydraulic roller cam when I bought it, with 1.6 roller rockers. It degreed out 258/282 @ 0.006, 200/216 @ 0.050, 0.482/0.496 lift with a 1.6 rocker, 111 ICL and 115.5 LSA installed dot to dot.
@@jarheaded9278 GM 94666492, it was a $105 shipped to my door billet steel GM roller cam. Degreed out at 258/282 @ 0.006, 200/216 @ 0.050, 0.482/0.496 lift with a 1.6 roller rocker and dot to dot was on a 111 ICL. 115.5 LSA on it so it has great vacuum, a very broad torque curve and a smooth idle even in gear at lower rpm.
@@jarheaded9278 That engine cranks at 195 PSI cranking compression. I actually have a compression test video I made after a running rocker arm adjustment and some break-in time on that engine in my videos from this past spring. All the plugs were out, fuel injection ECM disabled by pulling the ECM fuse, and the throttle was wide open when I tested it.
Thanks for the information on CR. I have a special interest in these Pontiac rebuilds. As I have a 49,xxx original mile '67 GTO. Also Thanks for the detonation information. I didn't know that the engine was more prone to detonating at a lower RPM. Looking forward to seeing the rest of the videos on the Pontiac engines. The Butler one piece Viton rear main seal is awesome....ask me how I know.
I've been considering pulling the 350 out of my s10 to freshen it up. Wanting to go with flat top pistons I should be fine. Nv3500 transmission and 3.73 gears.
Good information! Didn’t know anything about the heat range with spark plugs. I’ve messed with cars and engines my whole life never heard of a Ct400 , no clue what that is. Must not be a USA engine. Thanks for the information! Good video!
Thanks for the comment Elaine. A CT400 stands for circle track 400 which is the standard GM crate engine for all Pro Late Model circle track race cars in NA. The nominal HP is 400 although they dyno a little more than that. They are essentially a ZZ6 crate engine with a different oil pan and valve covers. AG
I run an aluminum headed, aluminum blocked FE ford at 10.8:1 compression. Cam is 248/254 at 0.05 on a 110 LCA. Quench head with 0.03 clearance at TDC. On 93 octane there is no detonation. The dynamic compression ratio should not exceed 9.0:1, but 8.5:1 is definitely safe. Static compression ration isn't really important. Modern heart shaped or figure 8 heads have a lot of quench and are more resistant to detonation. 4 valve heads are also resistant to detonation because the spark plug is centered in the chamber; e.g.,, 2JZ or Ford cobra and coyote heads.
Octane doesn't make power, but oxygen does, ive seen e85 compared to Octane up over 100, and e85 was the only one that actually made more horse power because it has more oxygen, thanks great video
When I was in tech school in 92 the school was like 80+ miles from anywhere and a guy had a beautiful driver 69 mach 1 that apparently had been babyied and had been carboned up really bad, well he brought it to the school to have it worked on well he gave it a hot supper all 80 miles from Bangor to the school and few days later after it was brought into the shop it started rattling and banging bad it sounded terrible in top end the teacher started to panick asking did someone drop a bolt down the carb!? He was upset, everyone was like no one barely touched it, well the teacher got thinking and figured it was carbon breaking loose so he rolled the dice and set the rpms up off idle maybe 1500rpm and started misting water down the carb with spray bottle it was running bit rough and actually started to sound worse clack bang bang for a bit but then it started blasting black water out the tailpipe and after a bit the noise started to fade until it was completely gone and it ran fine but he was lucky because the way it sounded it could have cracked the head or a piston and or bent a valve, the safer thing would have been pull the heads and clean it all but his gamble worked. With that much carbon it must have spark knocked under load bad and been down on power big time. Who could have a 69 mach 1 and drive it like a grandma, Also I had an 80+ year old woman ask me to pull her old 60s fast ack mustang with a lumpy idle n loud exhaust out of storage building n up a hill she said I'm not good at driving a manual... I said no problem but how in world do you have a car like this? She said her husband had died and she wouldn't sell it and she would bring it home park it for summer in driveway n take it back to storage in the fall, what a cool car I wanted to say could I please drive it to your house but didn't quite dare to. I also thought hey you need some free work around the house and a new friend? Not really lol
Great story. Old carburetors were notorious for running rich at idle. They didn't atomize well, especially Holley's. When the manufactures went to port injection all the fuel distribution problems disappeared. Also there was no wall wetting. When we tore down late 80's and early 90's 5.0 Fords, the was no cylinder wear. We just broke the glaze and put them back together with new rings.
Want to Thank you for your videos , They are awesome. I'm in the process of learning all I can about my 09 5.4 3v mod motor that's in my f150. I want to build a upgraded replacement motor just bit more hp above stock. Factory says 310hp at the crank I would like to get to 375 at the crankshaft. This truck will continue to be my daily driver. Was hoping that raising my compression from 9.8 to 10.5 would help
Lots of good information in this video. But one factor I was hoping you'd cover is "quench". Does quench allow a person to run more compression? How much more? What's the minimum safe quench and what's the max quench distance before it's a non factor?
I built a 408 SB mopar stroker, Closed chamber aluminum heads, flat top pistons with zero deck height and .038 head gaskets. It cranks 217 psi. It has a very strong ignition and perfectly tuned carburetor's. I had trouble on 93 pump gas with cast iron manifolds. I built good port matched headers and now have no detonation on 93 pump gas. I'm pushing the limit for sure. Another potential risk is piston to head contact. None as of now, but if the pistons or bore ware, and piston rock increases enough, contact! And of course I'm always Leary of getting lower octane fuel out of the 93 pump. I have had that problem a few times, not cool. I would not recommend doing what I did unless you are capable and prepared to accept and repair the potential issues that could arise. It's my "opinion" that proper quench allows much psi more cranking cylinder pressure than non quench. I'd never build another non quench engine. Even if lower compression, it also seems to cold start easier with the quench.
Thanks for sharing your experience with your sbm. I would have never thought that headers vs cast manifolds wound affect detonation. I too am a Mopar guy and I'm planning a build for a 340 to replace the tired 318 that's in my 74 Charger.
Thanks Ken. i had a bullet about quench in the screen shot but i missed it in the presentation and didn't notice until it was too late. I will cover this off in a follow up future video. Cylinder head design and piston design are factors to provide a good quench area. The conventional thinking is that .040"-.045" quench height is ideal. i think the issue is the less the better as long as the piston doesn't hit the head. Ben Almeda Racing has a good video on this subject so you might check it out. AG
Yes I was pleasantly surprised after adding headers. I thought I'd be buying race gas for any spirited driving. I'm thinking the headers must scavenge the cylinders better. My headers are port matched perfectly to the heads and exit straight in line with the ports up and out the fender wells. Good luck with your build. @@kenw1049
Thank you for the video 91 -92 octane in this area , we say 91 is common in this area you lucky with higher octane in your area , varying numbers ooctane #s is an issue for sure
Well said. I have been a proponent of all the concepts you touched on. I am definitely still learning too. I have a Chevy small block with an unknown cam, bore, everything. It's a rebuilt 350 from Summit. But since I also have the OE block I'll eventually build it for the car. I think I'm going to check the block and if it passes muster I'd like to design it either as OE stock, or with a 3.75" stroke and aluminum heads so I can run above 10:1 to make good power. I may also see if it would function with the OE heads on that cam and stroke. That way it could go back to something resembling stock by reinstalling the factory top end. I realize that's over designing, But it's hot rodding right? With me, you are preaching to the choir, but I'll follow to see what I may have missed or not considered. Or just to see the details of your builds. Please touch on piston ring materials, block hone values and their meanings, and bearing materials. I think a guy like you could clarify using roller cams in flat tappet engines too.
Guys and Al, go to the GT 350 Garage, he explains todays fuels and how to tune for High Compression, very informative, I personally build all my motors 11.0 to 11.5 to 1, I have 1 heavy car and 1 light car, no issues
As a big block ford guy, I’ve driven old dirty big ci engines, in big heavy convertibles. Detonating has been an issue, I look forward to building my scj to clean big power. Your video is concise and easy to follow. Thank you!
Enjoyed the video very much and I also enjoyed the video you did on "quench." I would like your opinion on how much you think the correct or incorrect quench affects detonation. Im looking forward to the next video. Thanks Allan
Thanks Andy, if you notice on the screen shot i included quench in the video but then i missed it in the presentation. Yes it is important. Try to get it as close as you can. AG
Mr Allan! I need some direction in having a Street 350 Engine built. For weekend driving and an occasional Chirping of the tires. Maybe a Power Shot of Nitrous. Just in case. How would you go about it? Maybe 4-450 Horses with A.C.
100 octane pump gas, is probably RON not RON+MON/2 as you measure in the US. In Sweden, for example, there is 98 RON, which is roughly like 93-94 US gas
Comment on octane, there are two different standards used throughout the world and the US uses a blend of both. RON (Research Octane Number), think this is the most commonly used and is typically reported as a higher number. MON (Motor Octane Number) that is typically reported at a lower number. And the US, Canada, and Mexico uses (R+M)/2. So a European 100 octane could translate to a US 93 or something close to that.
Water/meth injection for a higher compression on pump gas? I’d be interested in hearing your opinions and advice on my project I’ve been working on and slowly piecing together. Planning for this to be a drag bracket racer that looks stock… 68 LeMans original engine is a 350. Building a 455 +.030 flat top stock crank and rods for now (stroker down the line) stock dual plane 4bbl intake and 800 cfm Q-jet. Found a set of #16 heads the seller claimed were of Royal Bobcat fame. The numbers work out to 12.5:1 CR. David Vizard’s 128 rule calculates a 105 LSA and probably gonna be tough to find that unless it’s custom so 106-108 maybe? With stock rods being the limiting factor for higher rpm I should keep RPM below 6000 so peak HP around 5500 I think would be safe so what do you think a good duration would be for 1500-5500 rpm range would be? Any and all advice is welcome! Thanks, Ken.
Thanks for the question Judge. For street use about 230 degrees at .050" +/-, but with 12.5 compression and if you are racing it with high numerical gear ratio you could go higher. AG
@@1996slamster Well, I can see you have never used it. If setup properly you could run 87 octane fuel. Engine would make more power than with race fuel.
Well that’s a super cool secret you got going on there. Don’t let anyone know otherwise every racer out there in the world will be dropping their race fuel and start running on water. Pro-Stockers won’t know what hit e’m.
@@1996slamster Well, you can be condescending if you want but how do you think the Germans ran their planes in WWII with crap synthetic fuel that had a 93 octane rating? They ran 50# of boost on their engines. Yeah, that’s right they ran water injection.
You’re correct, the Germans did run water injection on the planes. It helped with varying altitudes. You know, dense air at sea level and the opposite as you increase altitude? Also the fuel technology just wasn’t what it was back in the 40’s. But if you really feel water injection is the shite, I would suggest going to a race event and walk around the pits counting up all the water injection units you find on the various race cars.
See old school engine builds at 15to1 compression, on pump gas with distributor total advance at just 22° to compensate for the pump gas octane deficiency... That is 1,000 horsepower
People have a big misconception about octane. I can only get 91 octane down south. My compression is 183 psi. Dart SHP 427 making 550hp, 4L80E with 3600rpm stall a 82 Corvette.
Thanks Cajun. We have dyno'd 180-185 psi on 91 and it worked ok. You have big HP, so you also have a big cam which helps. Thanks for the good reference info. AG
Good discussion. At what point does backing off the timing to stop detonation become a poor alternative? Say a SBC needs to be backed off to 26-28 degrees to avoid detonation, is that ok? Or time to explore a cam change or some other alternative.?
Thanks Scott. That is a great point and maybe material for a follow up video video. You add compression to make power, then reduce timing to compensate for the compression and take the power back out. If you are down to 26 degrees I think you are giving up significant power. Maybe on a future dyno we will experiment with 26 degrees and see how much it is. Retarding the cam or using a cam with a later IVCP will help cranking pressure but you still may have too much dynamic pressure. Bill Little made a good point on another comment, if you have good volumetric efficiency high speed detonation that is hard to detect may still occur. AG
I ran an 11.2/1 383 stroker on 89 octane to a 12.33 @117mph on a hot day at woodburn dragstrip in my 3300lb 81 camaro. This engine had 200psi cranking pressure. Here is the combo.. FT forged Wiseco pistons 6" H-beam rods zero decked block 1003 gasket (041 quench) 294s Comp Magnum mechanical flat tappet cam (248@050) Edelbrock E-Tec 200 heads (polished chambers) I DO NOT RECOMMEND THESE HEADS BTW, JUNK!!! Flow good tho Edelbrock performer rpm manifold (no porting) Holley 4777 650 double pumper (High flow screws, removed choke plate, 68/76 jets) 32 degrees total mechanical timing STOCK GM HEI Ran 36 degrees timing with 92 octane,, no difference in MPH.. I delivered pizza with that car! What a pile of shit it was...
@@goldsgarage8236 it was actually an accident! On my way to the dragstrip, the gas station put regular 87 when I was close to empty.. I asked for premium. I decided to just back my timing down to 32, normally ran 34-36. I actually never felt a difference between different fuels and timing.. The car always went 12.3-12.5 @115-117. Stick shift car with street tires so not very consistent! Way fun tho! Miss that car. Love your channel btw!
How much has Gas changed from the 1960's .I have a tractor , and the book says 8.5 -1 compensation ratio and 185-205 psi cranking pressure is normal. Tractor cam
That is very interesting. I would think that a tractor would have a very mild camshaft, therefore a very early intake valve closing point to trap more compression. Thanks for the info Wise. AG
I don't have personal experience with this but it makes sense. Efficient combustion and fast burn rates are the reason for quench and 2 spark plugs should also help. AG
I'm curious about the Texaco items on the walls. Where you employed by them? My father worked for them from 1969 until retirement in the mid 90's. Most of his time was in the Seattle plant, then he finished his career in Houston.
Thanks you for the question Brett. i started working at a Texaco service station at the age of 15. i worked there all through high school and college. I loved working on cars from a very young age so it was my dream job and a game changer for me. The Texaco star will always have special meaning for me. AG
The compression is just limited by the knock of the petrol right? If I use a alcohol water injection with a 120 octan, I could without any problem go to 16-17:1 compression right? If of course the same power output as with the original fuel is the goal, as a kind of ecotuning. But if theoretically the same HP is achieved, the stress from compression does not matter since its way less, one tenth of that of the combustion, right?
You are correct Add. Measured static compression is just an indicator of the health of the engine. MEP, Mean Effective Pressure is what makes power, and sometimes what does the damage. AG
Thank you for your calm and polite demeanor.
Thanks you Joe, I haven't heard that before, nice compliment. AG
Kudos to your upbringing. 👍
Another great video. The major problem with factory engine cooling system design. Is the coolant flows from the water pump into the lower part of the engine and then to the rear of the block and then up into the cylinder heads and then works its way to the front of the cylinder heads where it returns to the rad. So what you are doing w this design is you are putting the hot water from the block into the heads and the intake manifold.
This is why you will have detonation problems. So What I did on my race car in the mid 80s was to reverse the entire system. So the coolest water enters the rear of the heads and flows down into the block and forward and then out at the water pump inlets, back to the rad. I had this system on my EMC entries. We could run 220 PSI cranking on 87 octane, and when we would run 92 it would lose power. No Stat. let the engine run the temp it wanted to, and that was in the car around 160 to 170 deg. NEVER put hot water in the intake manifold.
I ran this system on my street n/a 406 SBC. I could drive 100 miles to the race track, on 87 and thru the mufflers run 9.90s at 131 and then drive it home again.
So what I have learned is COOL the hot part of the engine first. Oh yes it was an aluminum head engine.
That would certainly solve the burnt exhaust valve problem.
Excellent thinking.
220 psi, awesome, I remember Joe Sherman saying he would go there on pump gas too. I love the idea of running the water through the heads first. I'll try at some point.
Very interesting. I will have to do some research on this! Can you recommend any good resources on this subject?
@@rayowens4355 2002 engine masters challange
@@bobbyoshomebuilt2544 You do know that Scott Parkhurst let Joe cheat. Letting him run his cold and not at the 160 degs as the rules stated.
Mr Gold! You are knowledgeable. You are Teaching me things that never even heard of. Thanks a lot.
Very nice, thanks John.AG
With 11k viewers, I'd say your doing something right..lol I feel bad for the ones who haven't found you yet, but they will find their way, sir...
Cheers from SC
Very nice compliment from SC. Motivates me to keep digging. Thanks. AG
It's good to see North Carolina,...,an expert is some one who is 500 miles away, us Canadian's are a pretty smart bunch, but we have learned from the best in the USA!
Glad you said octane to protect eng not to make power
Thanks Larry. AG
Right. The Engine Masters crew did a bunch of dyno runs on different octane fuels and couldn't measure the hp difference
Octane is to push up the timing curve, timing is what makes power
Octane does make power it makes it possible to make adjustments and that results in more power just doesn’t make power on its own
Octane allows more compression which will make more power, an engine likes a certain amount of timing which can be determined by combustion chamber design, piston size/shape ect... some LS engine like 29degrees and you can crank them up to 34-36 and not make more power
Hey AG,
Tim here, again, i apologize for arguing via ur chanel with a certain individual, since i respect you/ur chanel, i will refrain from attacks......its difficult sometimes, cuz of my passion, and reading a persons comment that bashes YOU, when they are VASTLY wrong, grates on me......but maybe i shud make my statement, and leave it alone.....we cant fix the uninformed, and YES, i dont know everything either, but i DO have yrs of toil with engines, and seen ALOT, i will, from now on, make my statement, and then leave it be, i had no intention of disrespecting you.......GREAT vid this morn......i hope we move fwd, and we can enjoy your vids w/o any attacks......TY for ur time!!...PEACE to you sir....
Thanks Tim. all good!. AG
Another great video, Allan. Thanks for the good technical discussion. I'm learning something new each time I watch one of your videos. Keep them coming.
Thanks for watching and commenting Todd. AG
Good stuff! I'm glad to hear you credit DV! You and Uncle Tony are the only ones I've heard mention him! Thanks
It seems DV gets his share of abuse in some of the forums. For me personally, I have all his books!
David Vizard has made positive comments on this channel.
Definitely adding your videos! learned a lot in 21 minutes!
Great to hear! AG
Volumetric efficiency also sdds to cylinder pressure at high rpm, can add 8 to 12 percent off total cylinder volume, it happens at higher rpm and you may not hear it especially with open headers or loud exhaust, good video Alan.....you never stop thinking!!
Good point, thanks Bill. That is a little scary for sure. AG.
AG, being a long time mechanic, I call them infernal combustion engines.
Essentially they are all similar in operation.
Thanks Dale, funny but true. AG
I like this fella. Very knowledgeable but yet humble!
What a nice compliment, thanks Randy.AG
Excellent video, well planned and executed. I used to have a high compression engine, and I know about the diminishing return. I diminished my bank account having to buy starters over and over, then finally a Tilton Superstarter.
Thanks for watching and commenting Allhail. AG
Run a toggle switch to kill the coil when you first start cranking the engine the ignite the coil. Saves the starters.
I have TWO very low mileage rebuilt SBC 400's. One is a large front serial pad '78 that I pulled out of a motorhome, the other a short pad that a friend stopped by on his way to the scrapyard.
.BOTH have detonated pistons(one has TRW forged) with blown out ring lands !
BTW, to me getting old is forgetting half of what I learned decades ago !!😉
Good point alleyoop. The problem is we don't know what we have forgotten. That is why we have to keep learning. AG
Thanks for the commonsense approach and explanation Mr. Gold
Thanks for your comments Mark. AG
I enjoyed your video. Your accuracy and humility make for a wonderful video to help us understand what it takes to truly build an engine.
Very nice compliment David. Thanks for watching my channel and commenting. AG
Great video to explain some of the mystery lol, In Australia we can readily get 98 pump fuel. so we can run higher CR, I typically go for 200PSI, eg my 406SBC has 12:1 CR, 8.8DC, gives me 200psi. made 642HP 547ftlbs. run zero deck, 0.38 quench. 24 deg initial; 33 Total timing. Engine temp normally around 170 deg. I have seen 220psi run no problem on a windsor 347 also. Again Great video. Cheers from Australia
Hello Australia, my #3 country next to Canada and USA. Thanks for the info. That is a nice combo and you are fortunate to be able to run those numbers on pump gas. good work. AG
Really liked your comment, I have a 1st gen. 10.7 to 1 399ci. stroker that makes 641@6400 and 560ft lbs.@5700 on 91 pump with Brodix C-Series 18* cut to 17* heads.
@@waynetessier481 Great combo, heads make a big difference. Nice power and ftlbs.
I enjoy your channel ! My highschool addiction was Pontiac.. 1968 Pontiac .060 400 with 13 casting heads. Many things done for perfect tune. Lunati solid cam and Torquer 2 Intake and tricked Holley 750 dbl pmpr and Hooker Super Comp Headers. 3700rpm stall and 4.56 posi 1st night out, it went 12.41 @ 11mph. (79 firebird, street tires and exhaust) It never saw another night because marital problems. Now, 38 years later, Im redoing ground up a 1970 Nova I subd
Very nice, thanks for sharing and supporting my channel. AG
Good info sir! I would like to add, good quench and swirl will help alot. Also i have been seeing good info on water and water/methanol injection. David Vizard has a good video on these.
Thanks Ray. I had quench on the list but i just missed it in the presentation. I plan to cover it in a follow up. AG
“Disagreement is the pursuit of truth when all are participating in good faith.”
This is why I block trolls who bear no understanding of themselves. It is a waste of time to engage with them.
well said, thanks for the comment. AG
I'd love to hear you and @cattledoggarage chop it up in a conversation! I enjoy listening to you both break it all down 👍
Thanks D2. That would be interesting for sure, I have seen his videos and i am a subscriber. AG
Love watching and learning from your videos. I'm building my first engine and these videos help a lot!
Thanks for the comment. More to come. AG
Enjoying the videos mate, got a 307 in my 84 S10 so following your videos on that, from 🇬🇧
Sounds like Australia? Thanks for the comment. AG
Very nice I like to see the Brits playing with S-10's, don't hear much on 307 but it's definitely a better choice than a 305. I run a 94 Sonoma in Olean NY. until I retire next year and move it back to my hometown Windsor Ont.
@@waynetessier481 sweet man love the sonomas, i actually bought the truck under the impression it was a 350 however later discovered it was a 307! but i still enjoy it and look forward to seeing what numbers i can get out of it
Never quit learning and listening! Another great video Allen. Your ever down around San Antonio I’d love to buy you lunch!
Thanks INMIY, for sure, i would enjoy that. Thanks for the invite. AG
Old time drag racers loved to use the word dwell. Points dwell - dwell angle, dwell deg, etc. Piston dwell is one that comes to mind I've heard. It can be interchangeable with quench time as expressed in crank angle degreed. There is formula I've forgotten because I don't 'assemble' engines anymore. However, piston dwell is more efficient the longer the piston hangs out before TDC and after TDC within the effective quench area. The more quench time keeps fuel air out - OUT of the quench areas most suseptible to detonation. A general rule that's actually been proven true many times is the longer the connecting rods - the longer the quench time will be. Hope that is clear as mud.
Everything you said is clear and does make sense. Thanks for commenting Madd. I think the formula you were looking for is connecting rod length/stroke. AG
I want the motor in the back looks awesome
Thanks for the comment Brian, Pontiac's are a pretty piece for sure. AG
what about different combustion chambers open an closed and medium likeon big block chev
Great list , and well presented. Only thing I would add is outside air temperature. Hot dry desert air here in Arizona with very little moisture to cool the intake charge can cause it to detonate. Also, loading the engine with A/C in that 110 * heat . I had a new Bronco in '87 that had that death rattle no matter what I did with fuel. It made it to 85,000 miles, and the pistons were toast. No doubt emission controls had it running lean. On a cool rainy day, it was happy. We run 91 oct. Chevron here in our hot rods.
Thanks for your comment Hotrod. You are correct, the ambient conditions are also a factor. AG
There are many right answers. There is more than 1 right way to do things. As far as carbon I remember my auto tech teacher who was from Holland show us how to get rid of it. He always had a coffee cup in his hand, always. One day he was showing us under the hood of a car. It was running, he took off the air cleaner, revved up the engine and poured a drink in the carb. We laughed, it was un expected. He steamed cleaned the cylinders with coffee.
I worked in a carb shop back in the 80's, I did that often, but with water not coffee ;)
Thanks John, that all new to me. Thanks for sharing. AG
You certainly gave me a lot to think about and try on my Oldsmobile. I’m running a carburetor so that can change my mixture anytime and I’ll have no idea. I will try those ignition changes to hopefully get rid of the detonation problem.
Good luck with that Steve. AG
I still wonder if I'd get better acceleration with less compression and more advance. I've read that the better the head, the less advance needed? My 418 ls3 scr is 11.9, dcr 8.8, quench .041, compression test dry results 205-220psi but with carbon build-up on pistons. An unmodified version of my oem heads generally likes 22-24° advance. Mine are milled for compression, the least advance which gives the best acceleration is ~19°. Curb weight w/o occupants 3360, 1st gear 2.66, final drive 3.73, TR6 plugs, 180 tstat. I use the best 9x fuel wherever I need to fill up, I don't use >E10. My best accel times are at .83-.89 lambda depending on rpm range. I had to relocate the oem ls1 knock sensors compatible with my ecm from the valley cover to side of block, which means the knock detection isn't as good, so I error on slightly less advance because I'm not confident in the knock detection.
Thanks for the input ev. That is a good point and i wish i would have mentioned it. I will try to cover it in a future video. AG
Excellent explanation a lot of useful information in here that more people should know
Thanks Matt. Nice compliment, more to come. AG
Big Thx for taking Time putting up one of the best Organized, Intelligent & Helpful '60's --'70's oriented "Muscle Car" era High Perf engine channels !! .....Detonation engine Protection while running on the Octane/CR edge is real Challenge with so Many variables & build Mistakes sometimes difficult to correct for customer & some Oem brands worst than others....Late '50's & all '60's Pontiac Oems seem Prone to Pre-Ignt & Detonation more than other GM's....Definitely engine builders taking Chances with Over 180 Psi crank numbers.....Can Detonation happen in the Top Rpm range where it's Harder to Hear ??
Thanks for your comments as always Tom. High RPM detonation is a concern for sure. I am making a follow up video on this subject. AG
Stoichiometric on pure gasoline is 14.7:1. When you have ethanol as most gasoline now has, the ethanol stoichiometric ratio is "richer". This means E10 which is common now requires more like 14.0 to 14.3:1.
Thanks for the info Dale. You spelled it right. AG
My 496 big block is around 8.8:1 to 9.1 compression ratio. It works great in my 4,200+ pound '68 impala
What is your cranking pressure?
@@mickangio16 around 150 psi
Your right on point great video 👍
Nice comment, thanks Robert. AG
The real deal channel....
Nice compliment Brandon, thanks. AG
I'm not even building a v8 , or v6 or i6.
I em building an inline 4.
Even so , its not even a petrol engine.
Its a turbo diesel.
Not even direct injection .
Its indirect.
As those what I can find for cheap , and they rev up quite high for a diesel. About 5k or so rpm.
Still i enjoy your videos . The basic principles apply . Both are piston engines.
Keep up the good work.
Thanks Nagy, good point, the laws of physics are universal. AG
The spark plug is the ONLY WITNESS to combustion. They never lie.
Good point Richard, thanks for contributing.AG
I have had good results at around 9:1 dynamic compression with iron heads and 9.5:1 with aluminum. The 10.25:1 static, 9:1 dynamic 350 with iron Vortec I am running performs great on 87 octane. The 11:1 383 with aluminum heads is at 9.5:1 dynamic and performs best on 91+ although it will run all day long on 87 with the timing at 30* total at WOT.
Thanks for sharing your knowledge and experience Chris. AG
What cam are you running in the 10.25:1 engine?
@@jarheaded9278 GM 94666492 was $105 shipped to my door billet steel hydraulic roller cam when I bought it, with 1.6 roller rockers. It degreed out 258/282 @ 0.006, 200/216 @ 0.050, 0.482/0.496 lift with a 1.6 rocker, 111 ICL and 115.5 LSA installed dot to dot.
@@jarheaded9278 GM 94666492, it was a $105 shipped to my door billet steel GM roller cam. Degreed out at 258/282 @ 0.006, 200/216 @ 0.050, 0.482/0.496 lift with a 1.6 roller rocker and dot to dot was on a 111 ICL. 115.5 LSA on it so it has great vacuum, a very broad torque curve and a smooth idle even in gear at lower rpm.
@@jarheaded9278 That engine cranks at 195 PSI cranking compression. I actually have a compression test video I made after a running rocker arm adjustment and some break-in time on that engine in my videos from this past spring. All the plugs were out, fuel injection ECM disabled by pulling the ECM fuse, and the throttle was wide open when I tested it.
Another great video! Thank you
Thanks Brian. AG
Thanks for the information on CR. I have a special interest in these Pontiac rebuilds. As I have a 49,xxx original mile '67 GTO. Also Thanks for the detonation information. I didn't know that the engine was more prone to detonating at a lower RPM. Looking forward to seeing the rest of the videos on the Pontiac engines. The Butler one piece Viton rear main seal is awesome....ask me how I know.
Ok, how do you know? AG
@@goldsgarage8236 the two piece seal didn't work for me...I had it replaced with the one piece. No leaking. Thanks
I ran 11:01 on the street 93 and e85 with a turbo when racing I would run Q16
Thanks Boosted. Good info! AG
Thanks for the info!
Thanks for watching and commenting Bill. AG
I've been considering pulling the 350 out of my s10 to freshen it up. Wanting to go with flat top pistons I should be fine. Nv3500 transmission and 3.73 gears.
Thanks for the comment. If you have dished pistons now, flat tops will improve your CR and quench. AG
Good information! Didn’t know anything about the heat range with spark plugs. I’ve messed with cars and engines my whole life never heard of a Ct400 , no clue what that is. Must not be a USA engine. Thanks for the information! Good video!
Thanks for the comment Elaine. A CT400 stands for circle track 400 which is the standard GM crate engine for all Pro Late Model circle track race cars in NA. The nominal HP is 400 although they dyno a little more than that. They are essentially a ZZ6 crate engine with a different oil pan and valve covers. AG
As always, another great video 👍👍👍
Thanks Steve. AG
Great information!
Thanks for the comment Matt. AG
Thank you another great episode!!
Thanks John. I responded to your email today. AG
I run an aluminum headed, aluminum blocked FE ford at 10.8:1 compression. Cam is 248/254 at 0.05 on a 110 LCA. Quench head with 0.03 clearance at TDC. On 93 octane there is no detonation. The dynamic compression ratio should not exceed 9.0:1, but 8.5:1 is definitely safe. Static compression ration isn't really important. Modern heart shaped or figure 8 heads have a lot of quench and are more resistant to detonation. 4 valve heads are also resistant to detonation because the spark plug is centered in the chamber; e.g.,, 2JZ or Ford cobra and coyote heads.
All good points Turbo, thanks for sharing your knowledge and experience. AG
Octane doesn't make power, but oxygen does, ive seen e85 compared to Octane up over 100, and e85 was the only one that actually made more horse power because it has more oxygen, thanks great video
Thanks for commenting Scott.AG
When I was in tech school in 92 the school was like 80+ miles from anywhere and a guy had a beautiful driver 69 mach 1 that apparently had been babyied and had been carboned up really bad, well he brought it to the school to have it worked on well he gave it a hot supper all 80 miles from Bangor to the school and few days later after it was brought into the shop it started rattling and banging bad it sounded terrible in top end the teacher started to panick asking did someone drop a bolt down the carb!? He was upset, everyone was like no one barely touched it, well the teacher got thinking and figured it was carbon breaking loose so he rolled the dice and set the rpms up off idle maybe 1500rpm and started misting water down the carb with spray bottle it was running bit rough and actually started to sound worse clack bang bang for a bit but then it started blasting black water out the tailpipe and after a bit the noise started to fade until it was completely gone and it ran fine but he was lucky because the way it sounded it could have cracked the head or a piston and or bent a valve, the safer thing would have been pull the heads and clean it all but his gamble worked. With that much carbon it must have spark knocked under load bad and been down on power big time. Who could have a 69 mach 1 and drive it like a grandma, Also I had an 80+ year old woman ask me to pull her old 60s fast ack mustang with a lumpy idle n loud exhaust out of storage building n up a hill she said I'm not good at driving a manual... I said no problem but how in world do you have a car like this? She said her husband had died and she wouldn't sell it and she would bring it home park it for summer in driveway n take it back to storage in the fall, what a cool car I wanted to say could I please drive it to your house but didn't quite dare to. I also thought hey you need some free work around the house and a new friend? Not really lol
Thanks for sharing your experiences Budget. AG
Great story. Old carburetors were notorious for running rich at idle. They didn't atomize well, especially Holley's. When the manufactures went to port injection all the fuel distribution problems disappeared. Also there was no wall wetting. When we tore down late 80's and early 90's 5.0 Fords, the was no cylinder wear. We just broke the glaze and put them back together with new rings.
Good video AG thank you .
Thanks for watching and commenting Larry. AG
Thank you for a good video. I was looking at how much compression should you run in a prochrched street/strip engine.
Thanks JW. Sorry, I don't have any experience with Prochargers. AG
Thanks for your tips. Great video!
Thanks for watching and commenting Josh. Lot's more to come. AG
Want to Thank you for your videos , They are awesome. I'm in the process of learning all I can about my 09 5.4 3v mod motor that's in my f150. I want to build a upgraded replacement motor just bit more hp above stock. Factory says 310hp at the crank
I would like to get to 375 at the crankshaft.
This truck will continue to be my daily driver. Was hoping that raising my compression from 9.8 to 10.5 would help
Thanks for the comment Donald, we will continue to provide information that will be helpful for you. AG
Very Informative
Thanks for watching and commenting Heath. AG
Thank God for UA-cam, not just for engines ……
Thanks for the comment Martin. AG
Lots of good information in this video. But one factor I was hoping you'd cover is "quench". Does quench allow a person to run more compression? How much more? What's the minimum safe quench and what's the max quench distance before it's a non factor?
I built a 408 SB mopar stroker, Closed chamber aluminum heads, flat top pistons with zero deck height and .038 head gaskets. It cranks 217 psi. It has a very strong ignition and perfectly tuned carburetor's. I had trouble on 93 pump gas with cast iron manifolds. I built good port matched headers and now have no detonation on 93 pump gas. I'm pushing the limit for sure. Another potential risk is piston to head contact. None as of now, but if the pistons or bore ware, and piston rock increases enough, contact! And of course I'm always Leary of getting lower octane fuel out of the 93 pump. I have had that problem a few times, not cool. I would not recommend doing what I did unless you are capable and prepared to accept and repair the potential issues that could arise. It's my "opinion" that proper quench allows much psi more cranking cylinder pressure than non quench. I'd never build another non quench engine. Even if lower compression, it also seems to cold start easier with the quench.
Thanks for sharing your experience with your sbm. I would have never thought that headers vs cast manifolds wound affect detonation.
I too am a Mopar guy and I'm planning a build for a 340 to replace the tired 318 that's in my 74 Charger.
Thanks Ken. i had a bullet about quench in the screen shot but i missed it in the presentation and didn't notice until it was too late. I will cover this off in a follow up future video. Cylinder head design and piston design are factors to provide a good quench area. The conventional thinking is that .040"-.045" quench height is ideal. i think the issue is the less the better as long as the piston doesn't hit the head. Ben Almeda Racing has a good video on this subject so you might check it out. AG
Yes I was pleasantly surprised after adding headers. I thought I'd be buying race gas for any spirited driving. I'm thinking the headers must scavenge the cylinders better. My headers are port matched perfectly to the heads and exit straight in line with the ports up and out the fender wells. Good luck with your build. @@kenw1049
Thank you for the video
91 -92 octane in this area ,
we say 91 is common in this area
you lucky with higher octane in your area ,
varying numbers ooctane #s is an issue for sure
Thanks Nerrad. Octane is an issue and I doubt it will get better. AG
Well said. I have been a proponent of all the concepts you touched on. I am definitely still learning too.
I have a Chevy small block with an unknown cam, bore, everything. It's a rebuilt 350 from Summit.
But since I also have the OE block I'll eventually build it for the car. I think I'm going to check the block and if it passes muster I'd like to design it either as OE stock, or with a 3.75" stroke and aluminum heads so I can run above 10:1 to make good power. I may also see if it would function with the OE heads on that cam and stroke. That way it could go back to something resembling stock by reinstalling the factory top end. I realize that's over designing, But it's hot rodding right?
With me, you are preaching to the choir, but I'll follow to see what I may have missed or not considered. Or just to see the details of your builds. Please touch on piston ring materials, block hone values and their meanings, and bearing materials.
I think a guy like you could clarify using roller cams in flat tappet engines too.
Thanks for the comments and suggestions. We will get to all that eventually. AG
Also don't forget about intake air temperature. The hotter your engine's incoming air is, the greater the potential for detonation.
Very good point GT. Yes, I should have mentioned that, I will try to fit it in to a future video comment. AG
Guys and Al, go to the GT 350 Garage, he explains todays fuels and how to tune for High Compression, very informative, I personally build all my motors 11.0 to 11.5 to 1, I have 1 heavy car and 1 light car, no issues
Thanks Ken, I have watched that video and it is very informative. I recommend it also. AG
As a big block ford guy, I’ve driven old dirty big ci engines, in big heavy convertibles. Detonating has been an issue, I look forward to building my scj to clean big power. Your video is concise and easy to follow. Thank you!
Thanks for the comment Tools. AG
Great info sir...thank you.
Thanks you David. AG
Enjoyed the video very much and I also enjoyed the video you did on "quench." I would like your opinion on how much you think the correct or incorrect quench affects detonation. Im looking forward to the next video. Thanks Allan
Thanks Andy, if you notice on the screen shot i included quench in the video but then i missed it in the presentation. Yes it is important. Try to get it as close as you can. AG
Thanks for your Videos Sir Gold.😊
Thanks you John. AG
Mr Allan! I need some direction in having a Street 350 Engine built. For weekend driving and an occasional Chirping of the tires. Maybe a Power Shot of Nitrous. Just in case. How would you go about it? Maybe 4-450 Horses with A.C.
Thanks John, last fall I made a series of videos about Will Casey's 350 Corvette engine. We made over 400HP. You might find them helpful. AG
@@goldsgarage8236 Good morning Sir Allan! Did you get my email about the Engine Builder?
100 octane pump gas, is probably RON not RON+MON/2 as you measure in the US. In Sweden, for example, there is 98 RON, which is roughly like 93-94 US gas
Hello Sweden. Thanks for the info Peter. AG
I agree with everything you said good advice
Very nice affirmation, thanks Zoom. AG
High compression needs an appropriate bleed off of cylinder pressure by correct cam choice, so it does not ping at low rpm.
Its that simple.
Thanks for your comment Based. AG
I guess things change also in relation to how good your carb/intake works or if using electronic engine management.
Thanks Magnus. Yes, these are all variable factors. AG
Oh, btw, i know Ben Almeda vids well, i have followed for some time now... smart fellow
I agree. AG
Comment on octane, there are two different standards used throughout the world and the US uses a blend of both. RON (Research Octane Number), think this is the most commonly used and is typically reported as a higher number. MON (Motor Octane Number) that is typically reported at a lower number. And the US, Canada, and Mexico uses (R+M)/2. So a European 100 octane could translate to a US 93 or something close to that.
Thanks for the info on Octane Cam. AG
Yes higher the octane less chance for knock or pre ingnition. Especially in higher compression engines.
For sure, thanks for watching and commenting Dorian. AG
Looking forward to new videos!!!
More on the way, Thanks Eric. AG
Another great video!
Nice compliment Slamster. Thanks you. AG
Water/meth injection for a higher compression on pump gas? I’d be interested in hearing your opinions and advice on my project I’ve been working on and slowly piecing together. Planning for this to be a drag bracket racer that looks stock… 68 LeMans original engine is a 350. Building a 455 +.030 flat top stock crank and rods for now (stroker down the line) stock dual plane 4bbl intake and 800 cfm Q-jet. Found a set of #16 heads the seller claimed were of Royal Bobcat fame. The numbers work out to 12.5:1 CR. David Vizard’s 128 rule calculates a 105 LSA and probably gonna be tough to find that unless it’s custom so 106-108 maybe? With stock rods being the limiting factor for higher rpm I should keep RPM below 6000 so peak HP around 5500 I think would be safe so what do you think a good duration would be for 1500-5500 rpm range would be? Any and all advice is welcome! Thanks, Ken.
Thanks for the question Judge. For street use about 230 degrees at .050" +/-, but with 12.5 compression and if you are racing it with high numerical gear ratio you could go higher. AG
If you use water injection you can pretty much run as much compression as you would want.
Unfortunately water injection is just band aid. It's keeping the engine alive, but killing a huge amount of power in doing so.
@@1996slamster
Well, I can see you have never used it. If setup properly you could run 87 octane fuel. Engine would make more power than with race fuel.
Well that’s a super cool secret you got going on there. Don’t let anyone know otherwise every racer out there in the world will be dropping their race fuel and start running on water. Pro-Stockers won’t know what hit e’m.
@@1996slamster
Well, you can be condescending if you want but how do you think the Germans ran their planes in WWII with crap synthetic fuel that had a 93 octane rating? They ran 50# of boost on their engines. Yeah, that’s right they ran water injection.
You’re correct, the Germans did run water injection on the planes. It helped with varying altitudes. You know, dense air at sea level and the opposite as you increase altitude? Also the fuel technology just wasn’t what it was back in the 40’s. But if you really feel water injection is the shite, I would suggest going to a race event and walk around the pits counting up all the water injection units you find on the various race cars.
Great info, Thank you sir👍
You are welcome and thank you for watching and commenting. More to come on this subject. AG
11.5 or so w good aluminum heads, proper quench
Sounds right. AG
Pulled a LQ9 had 200 compression factory at 2000ft elevation .
Thanks for the info, that's a lot. AG
Great info sir!!!
Thanks for the comment Grampito. AG
Yes sir!!!!
See old school engine builds at 15to1 compression, on pump gas with distributor total advance at just 22° to compensate for the pump gas octane deficiency... That is 1,000 horsepower
1,000 is a lot more than I need. Thanks for the suggestion. AG
People have a big misconception about octane. I can only get 91 octane down south. My compression is 183 psi. Dart SHP 427 making 550hp, 4L80E with 3600rpm stall a 82 Corvette.
Thanks Cajun. We have dyno'd 180-185 psi on 91 and it worked ok. You have big HP, so you also have a big cam which helps. Thanks for the good reference info. AG
@goldsgarage8236 Howard's roller cam .545/294 intake .565/300 exhaust
I drill holes in my thermostat so I have coolant always flowing
Thanks you Deer. Good tip, especially if you don't have a by pass for water when the thermostat is closed. AG
Good discussion. At what point does backing off the timing to stop detonation become a poor alternative? Say a SBC needs to be backed off to 26-28 degrees to avoid detonation, is that ok? Or time to explore a cam change or some other alternative.?
Thanks Scott. That is a great point and maybe material for a follow up video video. You add compression to make power, then reduce timing to compensate for the compression and take the power back out. If you are down to 26 degrees I think you are giving up significant power. Maybe on a future dyno we will experiment with 26 degrees and see how much it is.
Retarding the cam or using a cam with a later IVCP will help cranking pressure but you still may have too much dynamic pressure. Bill Little made a good point on another comment, if you have good volumetric efficiency high speed detonation that is hard to detect may still occur. AG
We got a 13 to 1 360 dodge runs mid ten with 87 but we use water methonol injection and hasnt blown up been together for years
Thanks Mike, I will have to learn more about water injection, it seems to be very popular. AG
I ran an 11.2/1 383 stroker on 89 octane to a 12.33 @117mph on a hot day at woodburn dragstrip in my 3300lb 81 camaro. This engine had 200psi cranking pressure. Here is the combo..
FT forged Wiseco pistons
6" H-beam rods
zero decked block
1003 gasket (041 quench)
294s Comp Magnum mechanical flat tappet cam (248@050)
Edelbrock E-Tec 200 heads (polished chambers) I DO NOT RECOMMEND THESE HEADS BTW, JUNK!!! Flow good tho
Edelbrock performer rpm manifold (no porting)
Holley 4777 650 double pumper (High flow screws, removed choke plate, 68/76 jets)
32 degrees total mechanical timing STOCK GM HEI
Ran 36 degrees timing with 92 octane,, no difference in MPH.. I delivered pizza with that car! What a pile of shit it was...
Thanks for the info Jeffry. 89 octane with 200PSI would scare me. AG
@@goldsgarage8236 it was actually an accident! On my way to the dragstrip, the gas station put regular 87 when I was close to empty.. I asked for premium. I decided to just back my timing down to 32, normally ran 34-36. I actually never felt a difference between different fuels and timing.. The car always went 12.3-12.5 @115-117. Stick shift car with street tires so not very consistent! Way fun tho! Miss that car. Love your channel btw!
How much water injection do you want to run what's some alcohol mix. But water can eat up the prison's
Sorry Paul, i do not have any experience with water injection. AG
Cool video like the info.
Thanks for watching and commenting Darrel. AG
Thank you for the infor
Thanks for watching and commenting Mark. AG
How much has Gas changed from the 1960's .I have a tractor , and the book says 8.5 -1 compensation ratio and 185-205 psi cranking pressure is normal. Tractor cam
That is very interesting. I would think that a tractor would have a very mild camshaft, therefore a very early intake valve closing point to trap more compression. Thanks for the info Wise. AG
Curious about twin-plug heads as seen on Porsches, Mercedes-Benz and Harley’s some say it enables higher compression?
I don't have personal experience with this but it makes sense. Efficient combustion and fast burn rates are the reason for quench and 2 spark plugs should also help. AG
Question should be, how much timing can you run with high comp and pump.. Can always back it of, but at that point it defeats the purpose..
Thanks Terry, that is my message also. AG
Rule of thumb : low compression faster advance . High compression: slow up the advance .
I'm curious about the Texaco items on the walls. Where you employed by them? My father worked for them from 1969 until retirement in the mid 90's. Most of his time was in the Seattle plant, then he finished his career in Houston.
Thanks you for the question Brett. i started working at a Texaco service station at the age of 15. i worked there all through high school and college. I loved working on cars from a very young age so it was my dream job and a game changer for me. The Texaco star will always have special meaning for me. AG
The compression is just limited by the knock of the petrol right? If I use a alcohol water injection with a 120 octan, I could without any problem go to 16-17:1 compression right? If of course the same power output as with the original fuel is the goal, as a kind of ecotuning. But if theoretically the same HP is achieved, the stress from compression does not matter since its way less, one tenth of that of the combustion, right?
You are correct Add. Measured static compression is just an indicator of the health of the engine. MEP, Mean Effective Pressure is what makes power, and sometimes what does the damage. AG
@@goldsgarage8236 thanks for reassuring mate
Always used factory spec plugs
Nothing wrong with that. AG
Good stuff
Thanks BP, more to come. AG
Steel heads?
Most cylinder heads are either cast iron, or aluminum. Where do steel heads come from? Please explain.
Thank You....
Thanks Steve. For sure, Just a slip on my part. I meant CAST IRON. FYI Steel is refined cast iron with most of the carbon removed. AG
Where I live I have plenty of E85
Thanks Mike, you are fortunate, that is an alternative for sure. AG