Is Esports Dying?
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- Опубліковано 12 лют 2023
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Is everything you know and love dying right before your eyes?
Let’s find out.
Written & Hosted by: Keith Capstick (@KeithCapstick)
Edited by: Connor Dunn (@connordunn_)
Produced by: Danny Burke (@lurkeyburke) & Keith Capstick (@KeithCapstick)
Music used under license from Associated Production Music LLC (”APM”).
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Alright what does everyone think? Doomsday or nah?
nope
Yes
nah, orgs just need better money management and have multiple income streams, more than just winning tourneys, 100T is doing it pretty right so far, Content Creation + Sponsors + Proof of Concept + Collaborations + Other companies that have larger profits like Juvee and Highground, all around smart org and the Team behind it knows what they are doing without seeming to boast or die out
Video games come and go, a TSM League of Legends fan couldn't care less about TSM in Fortnite. Boomer investors persuaded because really high counts for whatever hottest game popularity at the time.
Bro you're back
E-Sports has never been what people want to believe that it is. It's a bubble. It's a niche product. It's not profitable, players are paid too much, and it's oversaturated by games. There'll be a bloodbath as leagues start failing and a few games manage to hold on.
Pro Players retire at like 30 years old, the salaries have to be atleast somewhat high for someone to go pro and do that fulltime. Not that you can't find a new job after your career, but still.
it's a bubble 🅱️
League is dying 👍
Not all of them, dota2 is maybe the best example but not free of criticism, tournament prizes go directly to the org and players and for the most part it's self sustaining but at least isn't a bubble
Spot on. Name one e-sport that is relevant and not likely to shut down in five years. Overwatch? Fucking DEAD. LoL? Dying. CSGO? Boomer shit. Halo? LOL. DOTA? Never heard of it. COD? Console e-sports are the definition of irrelevant. Valorant? Maybe.
I think the esports scene is very bloated in a lot of ways. In some ways that's good, but I also feel like eventually the fat will drip off and it will be reduced to a franchise situation just like traditional sports, and it will lose some of that "everyman" passion. I know for me, one of the most endearing things about esports was that you and your friends could create a team and enter into a sunday competition without the pretense that you will become the next Optic or FaZe. If you did, great, but you wouldn't be sinking 6 figures a month if you didn't. It will be interesting to see what happens going forward for the industry.
This is a really good take, thanks for sharing it.
you still can, in some games. ESL works with bunch of games especially FPS titles and you can make a team still and play their smaller tournaments.
but what we also can't forget is that there is no game worth really watching atm, all FPS games that are an proper esports are CSGO and Valorant.
Fighting games sure have many games but none of them are really casual friendly in terms of being able to play competitive meaning most players don't even think of getting into it, meaning the player pool is lower already but damn are fighting games enjoyable to watch.
MOBAs? Dota and League both have their core fanbase but neither has done anything to really promote themselves to newer audiences ever since they got settled so their viewerbase has also stagnated going up and down only because the games balance is worse/better.
now for the second problem i see alot.
many new games try and make themselves competitive and forget about what made Halo, CoD, Cs 1.5/1.6, Quake and more so iconic and why those games grew a fanbase that would host those tournaments. all those games were so fun people wanted to play more of them, nowadays most multiplayer titles have battle passes and buyable cosmetics and fear of losing out on timed events to keep people from playing other games instead of the game just being purely that fun to play, that doesnt foster a healthy playerbase at all it does the opposite actually. since only the players who are either so good at the game they go pro or casual enough to not care play those games, there are no middle class in there because those in the middle the core gamer is going to play the game once or twice maybe with friends few times but eventually go away cause the game isn't good, so people who would watch the games of the pro league diminishes to an unsustainable level.
3rd problem some organisations have.
Once the game gets a big esports scene compared to it's playerbase, like WoW or Heroes of the storm back in the day, or Overwatch, Halo, CoD what do you do then?
Well i can tell you what has killed every single one of those games esports scene and thats Franchising, making it nigh impossible to host your own tournaments of the games you love for the players that love them, then only the biggest organisations can get rights to host the events like ESL and so on and only the biggest esports organisations can apply cause only they have the money to do so. congratulations you've again cut the middle man (the core gamer) out of this equation.
But What you could do is let it foster it's own playerbase that wants tournaments, then allow it and help it grow, like Starcraft used to, Halo used to, and many more have done so.
Then those players who play in the early stages of that scene are going to be more of the core audience that you want to have staying the core gamers and they will stay even after the massively skilled individuals and organisations come in to play, because everyone is already hooked on the game, that happened with League of Legends and thats one of the biggest games out there even today.
4th is not really a problem but something to notice, COVID happened in 2020, so of course when everyone is at home playing games and watching netflix those numbers will rise because people have nothing to do, but now that world has returned to its normal state alot of people simply stopped watching.
na is the region for content creators. asia/europe is the region of esport competitors.
2 different mindsets. and esports wouldnt be "dying" in na if they were winners. its like claiming soccer is a dying sport when football (real football) is the #1 sport in the world.
its not a dying sport. we americans just suck at it.
@@Teddy-se8qb yeah, and fighting games Americans are really good at, see Sonicfox for example.
I could not disagree any more and what's happening with LA Gladiators and LA guerillas is the proof that this just Isn't the case, Stan Kroenke literally rather shut down his teams than run them even though he is a multi billionaire, if he can't sell their CDL & OWL teams they will just cease to exist by the end of the year even though he paid like 20+ million for both and he rather just give that up than keep it running, so no franchising has absolutely not worked in anyway and I can't for the life of me understand how a person can come to this conclusion,. It will die as no one makes money and the economy is down the drain.
The thing with esports is that beginning in 2018, it began to ballon and create a bubble that would eventually explode. It peaked in 2020 with Covid, leading to streaming and esports growing an exponential amount. The bubble has simply burst and things are returning to pre 2018 standards. This economy in esports was never sustainable, and orgs went wild with their spending expecting the industry to keep growing at the same rate.
That's like most industries 😂 Only the businesses who managed their risks responsibly will survive. Still months of rough times to come
@@rollin60z correct, Technology sufferred a lot as well due to this, there are many layoffs from facebook, microsoft, twitter and many others recently
Something worth mentioning is covid actual hurt all orgs, the views peaked but the money dropped. This is just the trough
e-sport was growing before 2018 (specially on the moba and hardcore fps scene) but i get yout point i think (Danish television showed league of legends back in 2013). Covid blew up everything hobby related from pokemon to comics/manga to gaming. So thats nothing special for gaming in perticular. So maybe i dont get your point tbh. The imortant question to ask imo are, whats the difference between e-sport and sports in turns of income? In short the whole structure, a league system formed over 150 years, big tv deal, the clubs facilitates the games (and get income from it). I personally dont think that e-sport with the current structure for tournaments, facilitating of games and with people watching it for free on twitch, you never gonna get the tv deals you see in sport or income for facilitating games. If the e-sport scene keep this structure its not like its gonna die, but its never gonna compete with sports in terms of vievewship, income etc
@@thesadarsenalfan3319 i think his point was esports exploded big time during the pandemic, and this made gaming companies into thinking its going to continue upwards thru the next few years, so they invested lot of money for growth
Unfortunately, things are now back to normal and some companies basically spent all those investments for nothing,
I think it’s important in terms of long term viability to remember that right now Esports is somthing young people watch pretty exclusively, but as we (those who enjoy esports now) get older, younger kids will turn our age and very likely will also enjoy esports. the only difference being now the older people will be us and many of us will still enjoy esports. Just a thought
Seems pretty accurate to me. I just wonder what the drop off of "older" adults will be with how many give up gaming due to other priorities. Especially for games that are newer and they've never played instead of mainstays like CS or LoL.
You have quite the optimistic take right there. But, I do love me some optimistic takes.
@@Azian_Euroz same, that will be interesting to see, I can see our generation taking esports into a role that football plays right now for people, (I don’t think it will be ever close to as big) A competition based entertainment that you regularly watch on nights/weekends
Lol it's so cute to read shit like this from kids who don't know what's coming yet
The only way that esports can survive is if the players and coaches can do it part time and have lesser pay. Professional sports started out that way where players had day jobs.
Unpopular Opinion: Franchising kills the competitive scene in a particular game. Lets say Valorant for example, when franchising became a thing, Organizations started disbanding. The fact that Riot chose certain teams to play for VCT making amateur teams fight for a slot made aspiring esports organizations give up. Eventually killing the entirety of the Valorant community all in all.
Yea actually. Leagues feel completely shifted the same season it got franchised. It wasnt about the players or the competition anymore it became all about money and contracts. Esports sold out just like how bioware sold out to ea. They tried to make it sound good but it crashed and burned cuz no one cares about the thing itself.
Interesting! So why do they do this?
I think this kind of videos helps young people how esports actually work and what can be the future of it.
Is really the question of "Is E-Sports dying" as a whole or is it "Is E-Sports dying in the West or in NA tops"? Because in Asian region E-Sports is booming more than ever - content creation, memes, gameplay and many more are very active all across social media not just concentrated in Twitch, discord and YT. Maybe the lifestyle, standards of people and location of the players, investors, audiences and 3rd party supporters outside of E-Sports community plays a bigger role if E-Sports in certain location will thrive.
yeah, well alteast in the EU the scene is growing in different games but not in MOBA/FPS anymore cause well while in FPS EU dominates the two biggest games in MOBA.. not so much, so there isnt much to get excited about.
@@FaceFish9 thats good then.
NA esports teams have much more opportunities at fundraising then Asian or European teams. So if it is dying in NA its dying everywhere. Don't confuse competitiveness with profitability.
@@watermage25 sure, but in NA they (players) also get paid more, the houses are massive for no reason, and bunch of other things that make EU/Asian teams easier to make profit off of.
@@watermage25 NA dying cause they barely win shit. Just like If Manchester City after burning all those money and still only 15th in standings then that club will be dying. I guarantee you, if NA can consistently win TI, CSGO Major, or LOL WORLD then those NA teams will be swimming in sponsors money.
I wouldn't say esports is dying, I just think it is in a lower point in its cycle ever since the 2016-2017 esports gold rush. We will recover from it, but I think placing some more focus into the things that actually make money compared to overinflating salaries will be better. I also think eventually getting to a point where these franchised leagues can build larger stadiums. ie: LCS studio adding more seats for VAL and LCS leagues or placing more emphasis on advertisments, then it will get better.
I think the reason esports isn't doing quite as well as other sports is because it's entirely based on the game and if the game is fun, popular, and entertaining to watch. Currently, the gaming industry is filled with broken, half-baked games, and no one wants to watch people play bad games. There's also the issue of the game aging and losing its player base over time.
Subjective as I find all sports boring as fuck.
Im sorry, but this argument sucks. Yes, there are a lot of unfinished games coming out, but those games are not the esports games. Cs, League, R6, Rocket League, Valorant, all the big esports games are titles that have either already been out for a long time or are here to stay. There wont be a new League coming out every year, the esports scene is quite cut off from the rest of the gaming community.
Streaming vs being a pro you can't be both
@@screayx No, I think he's kinda right, the esport scene always depends on the casuals of the game. Who is watching the Matches, who are the fans of the Orgs. Who is making the game popular. Without the Casual players of the game, the professional scene will decrease immensely or die. So at the end, if the game isn't fun for the casuals anymore, the Esport scene will decrease. So at the end the esport depends on somewhat at the fun of the game.
@@DatBlockSG Yes I understand that if the game is shit there wont be viewers.
But what he is talking about is new releases of games which are unfinished, which have literally no impact on the established esports.
Informative, banging video. Keep it up!
Esport has always been a bubble, and everyone with their eyes open could see such. The real question is how esports will become profitable, as to succeed going forward.
I think valve is currently offering one of the best support systems for orgs themselves in the form of major items. these items can make teams milions of dollars for competing in a single tournament. by reserving spots for different regions this also means that teams from smaller regions will still be able to grow via this tournament money
Yeah but that doesnt really help ? Think of it this way Valve hasnt actively done anything for CS in quite awhile? The esport scene is clearly fading from CS, due to lack of support and is only propped up by 3rd parties and the community
The sticker thing isnt even a CS thing, League Apex R6 Dota they all have something similar
@@juliantan4943 what dota has is far from similar lmao, that money goes straight into the TI pool. pro CS is thriving and all without a fucking franchise league by the devs.
cs doesnt need constant balance changes because its already good. it would be like "patching football" if valve were gonna do the same kind of shitty updates that games like league, dota or valorant get.
CS even got a new 3.6milion dollar prize pool event spanning over a year, with qualifiers all the way in t3 and t4 pro cs.
the fact is that cologne premium tickets were sold out within a minute, and there was a fully stacked Lanxess arena last year. even the player count keeps hitting new highs.
This a great video, one of the best Ive seen from this channel.
Esports kind of reminds me of automotive racing (my background) nascar , f1 , off road , sprint cars , boats you name it it doesn’t really matter how many sponsors you have and shirts you sell you at best break even and 99% of the time lose money … it’s for the trophy’s you don’t really win anything in the end … but rich people like to fund it and you know why ? Not to make money but because it’s cool. Kind of what you explained in this entire video
The real problem nobody points out is that at the end of the day, none of these games are even self sustaining for a long term sports setting. For example, fortnite esports. There’s 2 other major battle royale games that compete esports wise, being pubg and apex, but there are probably even a few more im forgetting. There’s one main basketball league (nba in the us at least), and everything gets funneled through that basically. And the video game marker is always expanding as well. You basically never see new sports explode like how new games explode. Maybe a few hundred years down the line when some developers make a game that they can bring across platforms and keep alive forever, but the rapid pace of triple A games only brings us further. The only way for an esport to last is if a game is made with the intention of being an actual sport, and not just a product. But that’s likely not going to happen as it’s too big of an industry risk.
It’s definitely gonna have a “recession” but I hope that it’s the push we need to make this industry profitable. Right now it’s so propped up by billionaire payrolls without that money pulling out there’ll never be any insensitive to change
Love the channel. Now to jump into the video
What confuses me honestly more than anything is the massive salary players get. It's kind of like what we've seen for years now with the US mens vs womens soccer team, same with the WNBA compared to the NBA, where the potential for earnings is lower for the teams so the potential salaries are lower for the players. Hell, even a lot of Olympians have day jobs because being among the best in the world at their sports doesn't pay enough to make a living because their sports don't generate much cash for anyone. Even something crazy like 50% of top 10 rated track and field athletes for the US make less than like 15k a year. I get that esports tend to have a larger viewer base than say shot put but I'd be real curious to see the ROI for players salaries.
Love u guys so much!!
when you said "they will still sell skins regardless if esports lives or dies" that is true but i do think esports has a direct effect on skin sales too, Nobody used to rand and rave about the RGX Sword until TenZ said it was his favourite (at the time) and used it in all his games, i also remember everyone hating on the Wasteland bundle when that came out and then Shroud came out and said it was his favourite bundle ever and him waiting for the vandal to come into rotation in his shop became a meme and suddenly i see everyone buying it and using it and making tweets and reddit posts about being happy they finally got it etc... so yeah whilst they would still sell skins regardless i think esports can play a large part in people purchasing choices too
Valorant has no skin economy
I'm a 100T fan through and through I look forward to them reaching their perfect balance of passion and profit in the future 👌
people used to work from home and watch esport / play games on the daily, now we have to go back to the office we can''t keep up with pro games time
I think that its going to do better in the future. We are overcoming the barriers of our investment groups not being the target market of esports itself. Esports does not attract the older generation because the product is not marketed to that generation. Video Games are marketing to younger players, as those teens grow up and get into these areas of investment, they will be able to drive the passion project forward, and there will be new integration for esports
The investment groups are Boomers and Gen Xers. So it's no wonder why they're not interested in eSports.
Esports ruined so many gaming experiences. Games are supposed to be fun, but people take it too seriously like they think they’re gonna go pro someday.
I swear.
It's gone from competitive gaming to streamers/influencers. I mean back in the day, the biggest gamers were Koreans living in team houses... grinding 50 Brood War games a day. Now its kids who just care about clout.
I certainly don't think it's dying, the only concern is that we have 1-3 new esports titles every year, and the audience seems to spread really thin across dozens of different games. That's a bit concerning in some way, because while esports audience is growing, it's not really infinite.
I would like your personal opinion on this topic; I agree that the audience is spread pretty thin due to many games existing in the industry, but if we were to coordinate the professional gaming industry as to have a LoL match on a Tuesday, a Valorant match on Thursday and a Fortnite game on Saturday; would this provide a structure allowing audiences to know when a game will be streamed, and because there is no overlap in the screening of these events, it would also incentivize LoL fans to watch another eSport, gaining traction in multiple games at the same time? I am curious to know your thoughts.
eSports isn't dying, the orgs are after turning eSports into business. eSports and tournaments before is different from today.
Well technically it is a job so you gotta make profit
Yes and no. Esports as a whole will never die out as long as people want to play videogames competitively. I think what we are seeing is pushback, the scene being bloated, boring, lack of passion, and so on. I will stand on this ladder for a league in Esports to fully be interesting to watch it should never be a franchise league like traditional sports. (Call me a boomer whatever). For stuff like the NFL, NHL so on they have history to go off of. Grassroots seeing generation attend those games together. And yes there is the same teams there every year but people feel genuine connection. Why should I care about Immortals being legit bottom feeders league every year with real consequences. They're just gonna do the same old moves in the offseason. Why should an Immortals fan care there is nothing at stake. For Esports it should always be promotion/relegation or circuits. I will give my take as a NAVI fan. Recently we were relegated to division 2. And the fans while we will still support the hell out of them are disappointed. For the CSGO team I love seeing them compete in different tournaments because it provides almost an Gran Prix like event sorta like what Smash and FGC has. But like 24 Hours of Le Mans, Grand Tours of UCI, there are events that stand alone. And fans of McLaren, Jumbo-Visma root for them because they have some sort of history. There isn't anything like that it franchise leagues and they lack passion. The people are going to leave a team because they got relegated will never be fully invested in the league as a whole in general. And Esports seem to forgot what got them to the "boom" in the first place and that is the passion.
12:09 this has always been my biggest concern. Being a big COD fan in e sports the developers seem to take little to no interest in it even after franchising teams at an insane cost because it is such a small fringe group that follows the e sport compared to people that just play call of duty
RLewis and thorin have been warning and talking about this problem for years. Especially in recent ones, in response to continuously increasing sales pitch for esports and continuously growing player salaries. The esports bubble. I wish it finally pops, so that all the bad actors only interested in it for money gets out.
The strategy ive seen used and that I have used myself is run a pro team that brings you sponsors, ads, content creation, merch, etc and then run smaller teams that give you tournament win money, overall that has been profitable so far and hopfully my team will continue to do well and stay profitable. Pro teams are expensive but bring in sponsors which support your growth long term while cheap teams run tournaments and bring in tons of small cash to make you profitable and bring in money on a short term basis.
I think the one thing esports is lacking is the live game experience. I know they do stadium events for championships, but I would like to see this happen way more often. Tour with the best players in the world, I guarantee it will build life long fans. Make the games a family friendly experience and the money will pour in. There's something exciting about being in person vs watching esports while sitting on your couch in your pjs. lol
I think if developers do something like rev sharing on the franchised teams, you really could offer all teams with a certain competitive degree the opportunity to design a skin to go up as a package/individual for a certain time, the money those skins make they could offer them the littlest bit and it gives them the incentive to design a banger skin, (you could even have guidelines so they looked uniform). Just an opinion from someone with no idea.
I am thoroughly impressed with this entire comments section. Thoughtful opinions on the business of esports. Well done, fam.
You are impressed by a bunch of people that have never owned a business giving opinions on how a business can be successful..... sad 🤣🤣🤣🤦♂️
Now this is a good content. Kudos to Esports.
I can't believe that ludwig got to say "gushes and comes in their little pants" on the score esports channel
I think the something to keep in mind is the ease of access between sports/esports
With a lot of sports, soccer for example, ANYBODY with a ball can play it, practice it, understand it, and enjoy viewing it. The "paywall" so to speak is an inflatable ball and your free time.
With a majority of esports, you are REQUIRED to have a variety of equipment. Even the "cheapest" games require you to have a console, a copy of the game, and good internet connection. The bar to play, practice, understand, and view, all become put behind a wall of hundreds (if not thousands) of dollars of equipment, hence why esports fails to appeal to a wider audience.
you could argue that sports like golf also require a variety of equipment, which costs lots of money, and to that, I say fk
better argument: sports been around for way longer so people know what its like, give esports some time
@@guniohhashi8219
Almost all the biggest esports are free to play and runs on potatos, in contrast, lots of traditional sports require expensive gear, equipment, and even an entire facility to play anywhere near competitively.
So, yeah, it's just a case of esports being not popular enough and traditional sports got hundreds of years to engrain itself into the culture and economy.
Another problem is that we as players take the free to watch aspect of esports too much for granted. When traditional sports make you pay to watch, run tons of ads, and takes government money for their stadium, we players are still here seething over merch being 5$ too expensive or complaining about how the production is so bad the League must be killing it self.
@@guniohhashi8219 to that argument you can say golf is not even top 10 popular sports lol
i think an issue with the current most popular esports rn is how difficult they are to get into with no priot experience. csgo is kinda confusing, but then theres overwatch
KEIIIIIIIITH!!! Glad to see you again!
Dota 2 just let’s the fans fund 90% of every event.
This is what happens when you start paying players way above market value. Now every team is struggling to pay those high salaries when the sport itself can't generate that amount of revenue. I think that DSG has the right idea by reducing those salaries to a much more sustainable level. Dudes were expecting covid to last forever.
It's still going. Talk about the fighting games and esports. More important than the team ones.
Looks like there are quite a few orgs out there. I’m sure there will be the handful that are managed the best that will ultimately come out on top. It’s the beauty of entrepreneurship. The best ride to the top.
Esports dying is nothing but good to me while i don't want or 100% gone it losing some mind share is great.
Its part of the reasons games have lost they soul outside montization.
I personally believe that eSports has a potential future, but only if the population can stop comparing eSports to traditional sports; soccer, basketball, etc. Although eSports as a concept is a more niche idea due to it being directed towards kids/teenagers entertainment, it is possible to create a system that isn't specified to an age range, but is rather incentivizing it's viewers to watch this program/eSports event for "a reward". If true progress is to be made, then the direction to look is not at other organizations or businesses that have found "success", but to understand that the success of something is dependent on the passion of the individual. If Ludwig can manage to stay mentally strong and continues to show the passion for the project, then we may very well see the success of the eSports industry as a whole. Stop looking at how eSports will fail, starting looking at the ways it can succeed!
Awesome, yes!
like what mark cuban said (and why he didnt involve in esport). there is alot of money to asia esport scene than west esport scene
if esports dies, literally everyone would benefit (outside of the orgs themselves obvi). Everyone thinking they can go pro and sweat for hours on end ruin the game for the casual player, who also props up the games with time and money. Along with streaming, if SBMM got removed with esports in general video games as a whole would be better off IMO
Its a normal economic cycle:
product becomes mainstream,
product brings in investors,
product peaks in value,
product becomes oversaturated,
investment decreases.
This process will basically cycle until the market dictates a balanced value for the product, at which point its cost to produce and price to purchase becomes fairly consistent.
Esports is about passionate folks who want to try themselves against other passionate folks, this corporate bs about wanting to make it spectacular and a "world class" thing is a mere smokescreen. Just look at the overwatch league, millions and millions poured into trying to manufacture an "esports scene" and it died the day later that blizzard decided it wasn't a good investment
Esports orgs needs establish faces and personalities from their player/members that will make popular brands notice them more, we love novelty of nerd culture, but only sponsors will make them alive
Awesome video! The breakdown was well presented. I’m working on developing different monetization models for orgs to leverage as revenue sources. Nothing big yet, but I hope to figure something out. I wanna see esports prosper.
keith looking good man!!
Orgs just need better money management and have multiple income streams, more than just winning tourneys, 100T is doing it pretty right so far, Content Creation + Sponsors + Proof of Concept + Collaborations + Other companies that have larger profits like Juvee and Highground, all around smart org and the Team behind it knows what they are doing without seeming to boast or die out
Streaming services need to partner with e sports, produce docos on stories and teams and air the matches. People watch anything on the front page of streaming and can be chance to capitalise
Dude his eyes are glassy Af 🌿
Idk why everyone started to think that Sports = eSports. Sports like soccer have existed for centuries and make billions on well established investments and orgs. eSports is like what, 20 years old? And for some reason some players get paid insane and unreasonable salaries.
this dude always on the verge of tears
He's being held at gunpoint by aliens
He also sounds like Kermit the frog.
@@ShaunInce123 i agree but im not sure if you're saying that's a bad or a good thing. i like his voice
A metallica shirt, a man of culture.
first thing i noticed lol
this is really good
The bubble popped. nuff said
Esports was never alive…. They don’t have stadiums that make the teams profit they don’t make commission on anything, they take cuts from players after tournaments and if your team isn’t good they don’t make any money, and with the buyin on how much it cost to just get in the leagues and the small amount of money that goes to the companies if your team does win every tournament you’re seeing a fraction on what you paid to get back, your team would literally need to run the table for like 4/5 years straight just to get back your initial investment to get into the league that’s before paying players getting sponsors getting locations etc. unless you’re an established old school team like or optic faze that already had a huge brand before making a move into the leagues when it cost relatively nothing to join its dumb to invest in. It took optic I think 12 years before it became profitable. No one wants to wait that long especially billionaires that only care about the money. 100 thieves will be the next to fall because of where they are located and the prices taxes etc. they already laid off a 3rd of their company. I wouldn’t doubt if we see faze clan fall in the next 3-5 years too because their ipo was not successful at all. And their owners took small niche deals instead of investing in the future.
E-sports will never die. We fought over rank#1 without money not so long ago and will go back to it, if we need.
I don't think its doomsday, but I think that the current model will need to change. Traditional sports make money through Ticket sales and merch, sponsors, and revenue sharing from broadcasting. Because of the digital nature of esports, I don't think ticket sales and merch will ever be enough to significantly impact revenue, and for now sponsorship deals are not nearly enough to make it profitable. Which leads to the conclusion that they need to make more from streaming, which I think they will accomplish by showing more ads during broadcasts. Can/Will it work? IDK, but its the only way forward I can see.
What about digital merchandise? Like selling team-skins for ingame or something similar?
If I look away from the screen it's like Patrick mahomes is talking. I can't unhear it now
10:53 i think nba and other big sport organisation do put patch note for the traditional sports. Not as often as e-sports but they do . Rules do change from time to time.
The apex teams are goated. Like they have so much potential even if they aren't the best. Most players have great personalities, that everyone loves to see
They need to open up straight up donations
Problem about a creator backed esport is that one tiny bit of controversy then everything comes crashing down
The good thing along with Charlie and Lud, they aren't overtly controversial which brings in brands.
Keith is good at this
In my opinion the biggest problem with esports is that there is so much of it spread throughout too many titles. Every second game coming out wants to build up its own pro scene and a lot of games that currently have a pro scene really shouldn’t have one. There are titles like CS:GO, Rainbow Six Siege, LoL, Rocket League etc that make sense as a Esport both from a competitive and viewer perspective especially in contrast to regular sports. Other games on the other hand, most notably CoD, Halo and Apex, to me at least can be hard to keep track of and certain strategies and game-plans in a match aren’t very transparent to a lot of casual viewers
Why is it a problem that it is spread to many titles? People can stick to the ones which work best for esports and play them competitvely / in organized competition while other games operate in the market too.
@@flurinjenal374 the problem isn’t that there’s plenty of options, the problem is there is TOO many options fighting over a limited fan base, combined with ridiculous spending and investment
@@spoofy8867 🤔
@@flurinjenal374 Esports viewership-wise is big, but in relation to the amount of content there is it’s actually quite finite. There could be anywhere from 30 to 100 different esport events running at any given time. Think the Olympics except with maybe 2-3 million potential viewers instead of the 2-3 *billion* guaranteed viewers the Olympics gets. On top of that, outside of major international events in about 6-7 different scenes, most local league events struggle to get more than 30-40k viewers at best and even then most international events rarely pull more than 200-300k viewers. In TV terms, those numbers would mean esports would be dropped in its entirety, or at least 2-3 scenes would be given all the focus and TV rights. As the saying goes, *You can have too much of a good thing*
Esports is trying to grow too fast. Thats simply it. It needs many more years of gamers growing up and and better amateur foundation.
A real problem is the people that have the money understandably don’t want to invest it’s an experimental product with minimal profit meanwhile traditional sports can yield exponentially more profit and those that did get involved were publicly burned economically, I don’t think esports will ever become nearly as profitable as larger competitions but it can atleast be profitable in time however
eSports has come a long way, since when I was a young kid going down to our local grocery store for a little Super Nintendo LAN tournament. Even as I grew up it was never a "this could be a job and pay the bills" industry. It gradually moved that way and I think a lot of the help it received to move that way was from streaming. Streamers/Content Creators opened up the eSports industry to tens of millions, if not hundreds of millions of people through streaming and making content on things within the gaming industry. This causes an increase in sponsors and ad revenue from those sponsors, etc. I think eSports will continue to grow and move into new tournaments involving VR and augmented reality through industry breakthroughs. The further technology of the eSports industry progresses the more doors open for avenues of revenue. eSports is still in its infancy in the grand scheme of things. Current eSports orgs are paving the way for the success of the future by being the guinea pigs to wade through the failures and losses. It may be difficult for an eSports org to make a profit in all 4 quarters of the fiscal year currently, but eventually I think they will and do it continually.
Basically, you can't say it's dying because it's never been profitable. You're more likely to make money as a streamer than an esports athletes.
I think this is absolutely untrue.
The athletes make money, but the investors don't. The reason why NA e-sports orgs specifically doesn't make money is partially due to overpaying players.
It’s not the athletes that don’t make the money, it’s the orgs themselves
If esports is all anyone loves and knows. I pray for u.
I grew up in bo2 competitive days and you didn’t have salaries for teams, I think it takes away from players trying to win when they are already basically getting payed to lose 😂
Bro came in hot with that intro
esports is structured more like cycling. The majority of cycling teams' revenue come from sponsoring. Maybe in the future orgs will sell their name to a sponsor. For example instead of G2 it will be renamed logitech
holy keith looks rehabilitated lmao
LOL
Actually in franchise style esports they should put in prize pool based off sponsors. A look into f1 for example, around 1-2billion of prize money collected by f1 through deals with broadcast, sponsors and such is then shared with the teams. Thats what the dev need to do.
Instead of streaming the content for free, they could have subscription for 5$ with exclusive competitive skins. Additionally selling broadcasting rights to esports tv. Again i’m just drawing some parallel to f1.
Esports wont be as big as f1, nba, nfl, or any of the traditional sports in terms of money but by replicating some of its business practices they can maybe make it viable for orgs to make money.
So Ludwig's idea is basically the start up company approach. Build a product that people want to buy, sell it while it's hot and then start again.
After watching Katowice for CSGO, nope. Especially seeing CSGO peaking at 1.3 million active players recently, nah i'm not convinced.
Only Csgo and LoL is Never Dying
But other game Esports is Dying
@@ayayaya5365 More like CS and Dota 2. ✌️
Problem is that e sports teams are very hard to get attached to. Orgs sell and buy teams in very short amount of time, so change of name and org and even ROSTER makes the fan very hard to follow and relate to. Only positive example was League of Legends team like T1.
Esports will always eat itself. There are always going to be new games coming out. For example, league of legends was super new and attracted a lot of people in 2012, but will it still be able to bring in the same amount of new players in 2032? Or will another newer game take its place and suck in the young audience in 2032?
Holy shit what an opening
Franchising is killing the scene, when the competition is killed and nowhere is at risk of relegation. People started getting bored because some players are not trying so hard and acting cool saying they are still getting paid millions even if not winning. Only games I enjoyed watching today are DOTA, CSGO and APEX where you feel the passion for players.
Also them F**kin up RICK FOX from the scene, the only Sports athlete who is fighting for E-Sport's scene and standing in the society really tooked a heavy hit. ALmost all investors are leaning towards E-Sports, if you look at it closely its on the roll until they F''ed up RICK FOX.
The huge boom since Covid will go, but e-sports will be about for as long as there’s computers that can run CSGO
i miss watching those jolly hands
My name is Franko, and I've been competitively playing games since I was 14 years old. I am now 18, and I really want to become at a Professional Esports player. I know this is what I want to pursue. It's my passion. It's what I breathe. Games have taught me a lot of things more than school taught me how to speak english. My first language is spanish. I have been born at Honduras and lived there pretty much my whole life. I moved the US for a better life and better opportunities to succeed. This is something I really want to do. My heart just aches from how badly I wanna be part of a team in esports. I believe I have the talent, skills, and passion to reach my dream. My whole life, I've always wanted this, I wanna be like Shroud. I want to be like Beaulo. I wanna be better than them. I want to be famous, be in front of thousands of people... lifting up that trophie. I wanna be on the big screens! Every time I close my eyes, that is all I see.
Technically FIBA sort of put patch notes for basketball
its bec. of Inflation it really is a big deal for some company and if this is not come to fix Esports will slowly die.
All im saying is the Player Salaries are insanely overvalued in csgo lcs and cdl too much for so little return not to mention the sheer investment to maintain the performance of these teams
because everything repeats itself. We want to see something new.
In order to make money and potentially be profitable esports orgs need to sell. As a consumer in exchange for my time (and cash) I want to be able to receive something worthwhile in exchange. Entertainment might be the most immediate value of that transaction, hence content creators. However there can also org be values. Their ideals. Team ethos. I will buy something I resonate with. When I watched the playoffs I didn't pay for a bunch of grown men to sweat around a wooden rectangle. I purchased the experience to see a team overcome all odds to become the best in the world.
Yes, pretty much
"Let's give a shit ton of money to teenagers with energy drink and video game addictions I'm sure our ROI will be fucking spectacular!"
throwback to tsm ftx
Yow youre back - the high xD
this is my POV, when e-sport is by the fan and for the fan like the prodction the event its all fun and we enjoy it. right now is not fun is all about making the most money and cost the less money (general org will do that i know) but esport not like that before now (from what i know). now everything is money "we dont care we just make money and gonna give the minimum shit for the fan cause the fan will still watch it cause they love the game" then eveything start to be like that and yes if that keep happening yes esport will die