In the light of day, this seems to be one of those classic iRacing moments where a single incident sparks a range of perspectives. I think it is great that we can all share our views, even when they differ. I appreciate the support from those who agreed with me, and I respect those who saw things differently. At the time, I felt I was racing fair and giving the other car as much space as possible. As I am sure most of you can appreciate, I was a bit bummed to be the target of some harsh words and name-calling from someone whose racing videos I admire and have really enjoyed over the years. It seems it might have been said in the heat of the moment, and unfortunately I missed his post-race message as I was chatting with friends on Discord about the race, and I just put it down to one of those iRacing moments and moved on. It is a bit of a letdown to be judged without a chance to explain, especially since I was not aware of the video until a friend flagged it to me. At the end of the day, while we are all passionate about our sim racing -- and I have spent more on this hobby than I will ever tell my wife! - it is just a game, and we all make mistakes sometimes. But no worries. There is always another race to run and more new mates to meet on track, so let's move on. See you all on track with Pete, Phil, Brett and the rest of my Same Day Racing buddies soon! Cheers, Glenn
Apologies Glenn, my words were a little harsh. Heat of the moment and lessons learned. We both love what we do and no doubt we'll see each other on track and give each other a virtual handshake 😁
I think Glenn didn't quite get as far right as he possibly could have, and also there was still a good 15-20 cm still between the cars. While I agree that it's more on Dave, I reckon netcode played more in that, especially since they sprang apart quite strongly. I would have expected that they just scrape together and mostly stay on line? I think wacky physics, and a bit of ping more than any one driver error.
That first incident with Glen is more on you than him. It's a racing incident, but if you look at where the kerb starts @ 28:59, he has moved right onto it and you have come all the way off the left side right up to his car just as he starts to come back off the kerb, so yes, he actually hits you, but if you held your position on the white line, there would be no contact. Almost identical with Peter, but this time Peter stays off the kerb and keeps his line, so you hit him. Again, racing incident, but you're equally as guilty in both of them. Edit:- I've added this edit to comment about your replies to people commenting on the incident with Glen. You actually say in the clip "you tell me what you think", and, at my time of reading, all but one who commented on it think the same thing, that you're not completely innocent. Yet you have replied to each one disagreeing, and refusing to accept any blame. You put out good content mate. You're fast and a good racer. You have almost 100k subs, so people like your stuff............Yet maybe, just maybe, every now and then you need to hold your hands up and admit you're wrong.
@@davecamyt I never said moving right was out of order, but you moved right half the track, whereas he moved left about a yard. These movement were at the same time creating an incident........also I've added an edit.
As a former Race Official and steward, for what its worth, I think Dave did not leave enough room for Glen (who was hugging the apex of the corner). Things move very rapid in Radical cars. It gets heated. I get it. but when the vast majority tell you that you were wrong, just accept it and move on. Great racing, BTW
“Let’s not rush it” Then immediately proceeds to attempt a move around the outside which was a low chance of pulling it off. Did you think because he has good safety rating that he would just let you have it?
@@davecamyt I would say that trusting a lower rated driver to hold an inch perfect line after he already screwed up the corner before is a bit risky. Starting from the pits on purpose and then complaining that the guys who you should start in front of are rubbish isn't a good look
Dave - that off-trackwas your fault. You cannot go on the outside all the way round at that speed! Inevitable bump. You were even behind at the braking zone. You need to man up and apologise - you came off as the bell-end this time!
I think i was on you, really sh1tty place to be on the outside of that corner, its always better to lift and get a better exit to try in the next braking.
@@davecamyt Its "racing inchident" what I meant it wasnt smart to be on the outside on that corner. It was on you to have the knowledge not being a great idea to be there to start with, not the incident itself. So many people die trying to make a move on that corner when its so much easier to lift at the last moment, have the guy have a sh1tty exit and eating him before or at the braking zone of the next corner. Its racing after all. sh1t happens, with the horrible racecraft that I see at iRacing I always take this approach instead. Then theres also netcode in the mix that makes things even worse. Imagine if you did this, you would have eated that 2 guys and maybe got the second place before the race ended. Love your content btw, you are always wise and that pay off. this peticular one didnt went well but it is what it is. cheers
@@davecamyt Because you left him all of about 50mm to hold the corner when you had a couple of metres more to your outside. You can't expect him to hold a line that tight and then get upset at him when he fails. You should have allowed more room.
Did three of these races myself today and really enjoyed them. Don't understand the dislike for the SR10. Sure, the SR8 is even more fun to drive here, but that doesn't make the SR10 a bad car. Anyway, gained some safety rating and irating in my races (also started from the pits) so time well spend.
There’s always another side to the story. I was talking to both Glenn and Peter on Discord during the race. They were both enjoying the fact they were racing against you. They are both very experienced drivers who have recently dumped iRating when the licences split in an effort to race in lower split GTs, so 1.7k was not indicative, the SR was though. There was discussion amongst us after the race about the events, so Glenn didn’t get a chance to send you any messages. He also didn’t believe he did anything wrong. Does that still make him a “Bellend”? There’s been little discussion about the massive NetCode between Australia and England. Just because cars hit each other doesn’t mean that’s where they were. It looked a bit different from our end. I also saw the subsequent follow up video that has since been taken down. I did agree with most of the points, but my question would be, when is it ok for a defending car to move over and pinch/compromise the overtaking car? This is clearly an accepted move. What is the difference between “not moving into another car’s space” and “moving over to defend “? I know for a fact that he was doing neither. He was just trying his hardest to give you enough room without conceding the position to you. I can’t Imagine anyone would agree that he should lift and give you all the track you want. I love your content Dave. Keep them coming. The controversy is also a bit of fun. Clearly there’s a lot of differing opinions, perhaps you could do a video about what the Racing rules say about overtaking and the responsibility of each driver.
I've no issue with Glenn at all and I'm sure he's a very nice bloke. Common courtesy goes a long way with me and for him to refer to me as Dave (when I'm in my other account) during the race would suggest there was a connection. Of course there was contact and it takes two to tango as they say, so for me to reach out to make things all good, just to be ignored after his shitty voice comms wound me up a little. That's all, and that's how he came across (to me). It's all good though from my side.
A little contradictory Dave. “I’ve no issue with Glenn at all”, but you do, as you say, and he’s a “Bellend”. Clearly you were wound up as he responded to you during the race being blamed for something he didn’t think he did wrong (and seems like the majority here rightly or wrongly agree with him). As I have also said, he didn’t get a chance to respond to you post race. Glenn is also trying to comment here, but for some reason is being deleted (no, he’s not using profanity, he’s just trying to smooth the water and “reach out”).
@brettsimmons9001 if it's not abusive, confrontational or spammy I NEVER delete comments, in fact I've just replied to one from him 👍 If you listen, I didn't call him a bell end. In fact, I said I'm sure he isn't one. I said, he came across as one (to me) in that moment.
@@davecamyt Haha, well I guess that makes two of us! Anyway, time to move on. I've loads of respect for you, Dave, and would happily race you on track anytime, safe in the knowledge that you also run hard but fair.
@@davecamytIt’s all good Dave, I wasn’t suggesting you deleted his messages. I see he managed to sort it out and touch base. Let’s move on and get back to the track. The controversy is entertaining though, in a lighthearted way. Keep pushing the content, I watch it daily when I can (yes, I’ve been a subscriber for a few years now).
I think bellend is waaaaay too harsh. He was ahead, hugging the white line, and Dave had, like, a third of the track to his left. Two-wide through flugplatz is, let's be generous and say "ambitious". I suspect it would go down as a racing incident if looked at by race stewards because Dave came off worse, but I certainly wouldn't feel the need to acknowledge it after the race.
I dont think its harsh at all, and here's why... To establish blame, you have to consider only a couple of things. I am allowed to turn right as long as I don't try and occupy the space he is in (which I didn't in the second incident involving Peter)? The answer is YES. Is he allowed to drift left and occupy the space I am in? The answer is NO. Irrespective of how much track is available on either side for either driver, those are the simple rules that we all have to abide by. That's when you have to adjust your speed accordingly to ensure you can negotiate the turn without doing something you're not supposed to do, i.e drift wide. Two wide through there in the radical is pretty straight forward on warm tyres. It was the attitude during the race, basically taking the pi$$ and the lack of ownership which bugged me. Racing incident though I agree. :)
@@davecamyt A few races back (F4 at Hockenheim), you criticized a guy because he hit you even though he had "2 cars width," as you put it, on his other side. So, it's a bit unfair to now say that it doesn't matter how much track is available for either driver. It does matter. If one driver has a more open track to work with, in a tough situation, it's probably best if he uses that space to minimize chances of an incident.
@TBolt1 if someone turns into the space I'm in yes it's an issue. If someone pinches me either inside or outside but leaves me space I've got no issue. I then have to slow down to a point I can make the turn without hitting them. Check out the second to last lap of my GT4 race at Interlagos. I get pinched to the outside which was borderline ok, but imo just racing.
@@davecamyt Yeah, this is on you. Guy was literally in front of you, hugging the right side and you turn on him. You pinched him and paid the price. If anything it was you that should have slowed down if you couldn't make the turn.
Glenn did absolutely nothing wrong there, Dave. He had the inside through the corner and was always going to wash out wide slightly unless he completely backed out and let you go, which he didn't have to do. You were in the risky positon and if anything turned in on him slightly, either way you should have porbably been the one backing out there. It was a simple racing incident at the end of the day.
No, I disagree. He could easily have made the turn if he slowed. Which he HAS to do otherwise he hits me (which he did). By putting myself in the position I did meant I didn't have to 👍
My vote is Dave. It’s a rough spot, both have to work together to get the immediate turn sorted out. They were side by side well before the turn. Both drivers had the responsibility to complete that section cleanly. My opinion would not be the same in a send or dive bomb. It looked like Dave was prepared for the outside line and Glenn disregarded that he would wash out even with a shallow entry. Assuming no malice, The only explanation is Glen expected Dave to roll out of the throttle.
@@davidmuse6578 agreed Glenn should have done the respectful thing and slowed down it wouldn’t of ever happened this nonsense there’s no reason for this to happen. And he did it again to someone else sorry but if Glenn does see this then he’s definitely a Bellend and he’s welcome 🙏
He took the racing line, which naturally washes out a bit at such a high-speed turn, and left a car's width on the outside all the way through. How hard is it for you to anticipate that and leave extra room? It's completely unreasonable to expect him to stay glued to the inside through there. Btw, you did the exact same thing to Peter yet accepted the blame there...
So, if Glenn slowed a little would he have washed out? Those are the things you have to do if your line is compromised. Yes!! Your second point is EXACTLY my point! Not the incident itself, those things happen 😁
@@davecamyt what's the problem with washing out at such a high speed turn, if he is still leaving space for you that you refuse to take? And btw from what I remember in the video, I saw his brake lights going in. That isn't a turn where you have to brake normally in this car. So you have nothing to complain about imo.
@@jamiemb17 you can't wash out into someone else, no matter what the speed. You can't leave space for someone on the other side of their car 🤣 Hopefully tonight's video will explain it
What you just described is cutting people off the track and no that isn't allowed in racing. And there wouldn't have been a car's width if he didn't use Dave as a brake, he was understeering quite heavily at the time of the contact.
Wow. Lots of wrath for Dave tonight! As a 1.5k newbie, I’m not qualified to comment. I do know though that single screen racing always makes this sort of thing tricky. Anyway, keep up the great content and don’t waste too much time replying to every comment 😉
iRating is far more indicative of safety than safety rating. Trying it around the outside of flugplatz against a 1.7k driver, when you’re not even ahead of him at entry… you might as well roll a pair of dice and hope for sixes. I also don’t think he did anything egregiously wrong, just missed the apex a little which is easy to do for lower skill drivers who are trying to avoid the high curbs.
That was some dash from the pits to the sharp end Dave. Unfortunately my reactions are not quick enough to be able to drive the Radical well. (or anything else come to think of it 😂) Keep them coming. 👍
I would highly recommend you looking into Randy Pobst 'Vortex of Danger' concept and the reflecting on that move. That's you entering the exit Vortex if I've ever seen one.
Guys, this is a great one to watch while you're seated in your own racing rig / desk / whatever. Trust me.😯 Sorry, I disagree with you Dave. That corner wasn't likely to end well, but 28:59 -- you just turned right towards his line. He has no room on his side of the track, and of course, he's about to slide left right into you because of the shape of that section of track. Racing incident at best. But, Race Control called -- they give you a 5 second penalty. Also, 10-grid place penalty for using transparent halos in the F4.
I turned right (as it's a right handed corner), but not into his space. I'm allowed to do that. He's not allowed to drift left into mine. Again, I'll say that he has to slow so he doesn't drift left into me. I've done what I needed to do, getting a better exit out of the proceeding left to get a good run to put myself in a great overtaking position, (pinching him in) to slow him down to get the move done. I'll possibly make a video on it 😁
I think "Bellend" might be a bit too harsh in this case. Full disclosure: Glenn is a mate of mine, and we’ve had a bit of a debate about this in our Discord channel. While on face value I said to Glenn that he may owe Dave a pint, we went to the video ref and after reviewing the video we have available and looking at a screenshot of the track position and the line Glenn was taking at the time, I’m siding with Glenn on this one. Given Dave’s experience, is it fair to wonder if Dave should have anticipated the possibility of contact with a lower-rated driver at that speed and on that part of the track? But, of course, it’s always easier to judge these things in hindsight rather than in the heat of the race. That said, with Dave being significantly faster than me on this track, , let's be honest in general, I probably would have yielded, whether that was the right move or not. All that aside, let's not get to radical, it's just a game, and we live and learn. Keep up the great content, Dave!
Hi dave, I love your channel and videos. One point on the Glen incident if I try to put myself into Glens shoes. I race personally with 49 inch ultra wide monitor. I have no room for triples in my apartment and I cannot use VR due to insane nausea in causes me. So most like you would have been in my blind spot at the moment of turn-in in that corner and therefore I would have just tried to keep it as close to inside as I can to leave you room on the outside, but I would have not been able to react to you pinching me in like that, so I think that I might have crashed with you also in that corner. I am sure that there is also still plenty of people racing with single screen 16:9 monitor with even more limited FOV than I do. Therefore I would recommend leaving a little bit more room for other racers especially on corners like this. I am not blaming you or Glen, but I think that move was just asking for trouble.
My monitor closed after that incident in Schwedenkreuz, that's why I disappeared on your POV Dave..good race tho, had to save the car multiple times due to not having a spoiler 👍! Hope to race in the same lobby with you again!
Cracking race Dave, but have to say with the first incident, I would have tucked in behind and tried to use the straight to do the overtake myself. That corner is like the kink going up to the Karosel. You can go two wide if one of you lifts, but no one ever does.
Dave I think you need a break from iRacing, you're usually bang on with your views but this just looks like a racing incident all day long, most of the comments say the same. He doesn't even wash out that wide and makes a pretty good effort attempt of hugging the inside. If you pause it at the point of contact he's close to the inside curb and only washes out after its all over. You were always going to come off worse being on the outside, I'm pretty sure you would normally just grab a late apex and take him on the next straight.
Pause at 29:19 Dave is pointed on the outside of the racing line. Glenn is also, but he should be pointed to the inside of the racing line. By no means intentional though. Only thing you can put on Dave is that he can look at the SoF and think overtaking there isn't best considering how much faster he was. But there's something about "if you no longer go for a gap...."
Uhm, you should have another look... at 29:18 he is against the left white line. at 29:20 he is on the right side up against the other car. freeze framing a single point only shows you that moment in time it complete negates the fact he moved all the way across the track to where the other car was.
Great Race Dave. I always check the replay after the race to double check - and I think that it was a racing incident. That said, the lack of acknowledgement, yeah, bellend.
Glenn was pretty far right, almost as far as he could have been. I would most certainly say that Glenn is innocent. Dave was quite brave, and I don't think going for the move was a mistake or dangerous, but he expected Glenn to hold too tight of a line. More so however, is the fact that there was still clearance between the cars, 15-20 centimetres worth. I would say that this is more on ping/net-code, than any one driver. But if you had to blame someone, it would be Dave.
Dave, I had no idea you can DM racers after the race. I think that’s a great display of sportsmanship. How do you do that if you aren’t friends with them on iRacing?
I think that if that clip went on r/Simracingstewards I think you'll find that that incident with Glenn was slightly on you Dave. Sorry! I think you turned in a bit much and he was infact hugging the line. Close racing nevertheless and except for the 4x, no harm done.
I don’t understand how anyone is saying this is 100% Dave’s fault. For one thing, Dave said his main issue was the lack of accountability and not incident itself. And if there was a car on my outside, I’d naturally adjust my speed so that the “inevitable wash out” wouldn’t happen, why? Because there’s another car there! They were side by side. It shouldn’t matter if Dave’s nose was ahead or not, if there’s another driver there, give them room!
I think the whole thing is a huge non-issue and it’s kind of weird to see how it’s playing out. Dude made a small mistake battling in an awkward corner and Dave put himself into that situation for not being a bit more cautious into it. I can see both sides of these comments, but ultimately I think calling someone out and suggesting they’re a “bellend” about a race incident is uncalled for. Neither driver made any egregious errors or broke any rules.
@@Tapport I see what you’re saying, and I agree about the incident not being a big deal or malicious etc, but he did punt Dave off the track, irrespective of whether or not it was a wise move, he collided with Dave. And that leads to the main issue and that people are missing: Dave emphasised in the video that he wasn’t calling him a bellend, but saying that’s how he came across when he implied Dave went off the track as though the contact never happened. It’s frustrating when people don’t take accountability for their role in incidents.
If I got anything out of this video it's that no matter the irating or the safety rating, some people just don't understand how to do close, wheel to wheel racing 😂
I’m don’t agree with your take on this one. He’s ahead into a one line corner, you expecting him not to drift out is careless in my view, just putting yourself in a bad position. Especially since there’s a long straight right afterwards. Also if something like that happens and the person immediately blames me over voice chat, I will not be in an apologetic mode if I was in one before 🤷♂️. Just my 2 cents, been loving the content tho
First incident - I replayed it a few times including at 20% speed and in my opinion you are clearly trying to take the corner close to racing line, which is occupied by Glenn. I don't remember if Radical can take the wider line flat out or if you should have slowed down, but in my mind that's on you. He left you 1-2 cars width of space. I mean, you start turning in before Glenn even reaches the apex while still being straight, you can't just force a move like that. If your argument is he had to slow down to take the tighter line, you had to slow down to take the wider line. And he was ahead at the apex anyhow. I don't understand why you disagree with it in other comments. Your car is steering into his before the apex, and even after the apex he's very close to sticking it tight, while you had your space if you were willing to go wider as you in my opinion should have. You thought he'd stick perfectly to the curb but he had no obligation to do that and it's also unreasonable to expect it, since touching that curb sends you outside anyway.
28:56 Just my opinion, the other guy is definitely at fault for the collision due to him massively pinching his entry by an entire car width and then some and running wide on exit, however if I were in this position I wouldn't even bother going for the move on the outside. The flugplatz is coming up immediately after this and you can draft by him if you stay behind him until then. I would've waited until there or possibly the brake zone at Aremberg to attempt this pass. There's enough drafting sections on this track that it doesn't usually make sense to attempt a pass in a non braking zone turn.
While I see Daves side here, you're the passing car. It's your job to facilitate a clean pass. Using context clues, I would bet that glenn isn't as experienced. Both on the Nords or in general. He's 1.7k, this could've been his first season. So to choose that corner and expect him to lift when you don't have your nose ahead is not wise. Especially when you have a clean car that's draft heavy and you're going onto a long straight. It's best to just wait behind and pass in the next braking zone. Instead, you chose to stay on his outside and expect a lift when he doesn't owe you one. And surprise, he doesn't. And he runs you into the wall. That's on you, dave.
@davecamyt True. BUT 1. He's inexperienced, so chances he lifts are slim. 2. You are the passing car. It's your job to facilitate a SAFE pass. Pinching him on a tight corner is not safe. He missed three apexes in a row, I don't know how you expect him to hit that one while you're pinching him. 3. The draft is extremely powerful. There was about 1.5 to 2 km of track that's flat out just after this. Stay behind him and get that draft down into the next braking zone. Had you done that, you would have a clean car and potentially have caught and passed P2. Then maybe p1. There's a lot of people in the comments saying exactly what I'm saying now. Maybe re-analyze what happened and go from there? Cheers
I hear what you're saying but all that is irrelevant. We're talking about one specific moment. He HAS to lift to get around with making contact. I'm not fussed at all about the incident itself, it happens.
I still wish they didn’t nuke this series with the SR10. I use to run the radial series with the free SR8’s all the time. But now it doesn’t have the participation cause no one including my self doesn’t wanna buy the new car
Hey Dave, love watching your races. Curious though, how do you show us all the incidents at the end of the race? I've tried to do it at the end of my races in iracing by saving the replay and then viewing it, and selecting view incidents only. But it seems like when i try and view the carnage in my races, the iracing replay just jumps around a bunch and doesn't actually show the leadup and the carnage. ANyways would love to know how you're able to. Thanks for the content!
just a racing inchident i guess he technically did have a bit of space left between him and the curb, but besides the funky iRacing netcode, it is already a difficult corner to pass on the outside, and personally i wouldnt put so much trust into the guy next to me even if they have high SR. im more of a "live to fight another day" kind of driver though.
While i think post incident Glenn was out of order, i think maybe you should give him a bit more room mid corner. If it was on the run off out the corner its all on him but mid corner its just a racing incident as he did not have any space to work with.
i tell you what i think: netcode was definately involved. you pinched him pretty hard, he slided to the outside and thats why there was contact. racing incident. 2nd contact with peter: exactly my opinion. you just turned into him. shit happens.
Dang, I swear iRacing SR calculations are crazy. I don't see how you can have 8x and not lose any SR. My last race last night I only had 3x (1x in practice 0x quali) and lost .1even after the 2 races before being 0x and gaining .1 in both.
Safety rating is calculated by corners per incident. This was a long race with a bunch of corners so the relative incidents per corner were probably less
Yeah, I get that and iRacing even says that they adjust the multiplier determined by how many corners each track has to account for that. I just wish they were more clear and told us exactly how it was calculated. For example the race I referenced above. I finished P3 (not that it matters) and had 4x total in the session (3x in the race, 1x in practice, 0x in quali) and I lost .1 SR. The winner of the race had 8x total in the session (6x in the race, 0x in practice, and 2x in quali) but gained .01 SR! How does that make sense!? His previous 3 races (all at the same track, all laps complete) were 5x, 9x, and 12x (in the race), where as my previous 3 races (all at the same track, all laps complete) were all 0x. It just doesn't make sense! It makes it seem like the cleaner you race the more they penalize you for incidents when you do have them.
@@yonson_racing Your SR license class makes a big difference to how much incidents affect SR. So in your example the first thing you'd need to make sure of is that you're comparing apples to apples as far as licence class is concerned. The same # of incidents in a race will have far more effect on an A License than a B license, which in turn will have more of an effect than on a C license... and so on. Also did both drivers complete all the possible corners in both race and qually in ALL the races you mentioned? iRacing continues to count corners completed after the race ends until the final car crossed the finish line. Qually corners continue to be counted after your 2 hotlaps until the session ends. Also SR is calculated over ~2600 corners. That's typically a lot more than just a few races. E.g. A 15 lap race of 15 corners per lap is only 225 corners per race, plus 45 corners for qually = 270. Which is only about a tenth of the 2600 that are part of the SR calculation. Unfortunately iRacing does not share the exact formula they use, but there are some detailed explanations you can read up on if you want to understand it in more depth. Simracingsetup has one for example.
Thanks, that definitely helps explain it better. I didn't know that it was harsher the higher your license is and I don't recall seeing that anywhere in the iRacing documentation. That absolutely explains my examples above though. Because I'm Class A and the other I was comparing to is Class C (even though his IR is close to 8K). This also really helps to explain why I see a lot of drivers with 2 or even 3 times my IR with only C or D licenses having regular 8+ incident races and rarely ever losing SR, when I can have a 3x or sometimes even 2x race and lose SR, it's quite frustrating... Guess it's time to get demoted a couple classes so I don't have to worry about getting a few more 1x's each race if it helps advance IR. (not really, but it definitely explains why a lot of racers never go to higher classes.)
Both green and pink cars slightly missed their turn in and were a little off the apex, but the green car lost the back end sightly as well. No offense to them, but they're not 1.7k or so because they're great at holding their lines. Gotta give them a wider birth than normal, and you take your life into your hands when you go on their outside. And you pinched them both slightly. Definately more room on the outside in both incidents.
Why is iRacing the only racing sim to have netcode issues? In this video alone, I have seen three instances. However, when you try to discuss this on the iRacing official Facebook group, everyone defends it and says that netcode issues are pretty rare.
Intense that one 👌 The 'Glenncident' is a tough one but i agree with you, Dave. The key thing here is Glenn HAS to slow to hold that tight line, he doesn't appear to and thats why there is contact in my opinion. When running side by side like that the tighter line is always the slower one as you have to slow to keep the nose tight to avoid the understeer 🤷♂️ Great race though, i think we can all agree on that 😎
My take on the incident with Glenn... I would have liked to have seen a replay from his point of view. The first time I watched the replay, I thought it was a racing incident... He was drifting out a bit and you were pinching in a bit. But, after watching it slowed down, I do think it was mostly Glenn's fault. With the way he's drifting out, I'm not sure he's staying on the track without hitting you. He took that turn way to fast with how close he was to the right hand side. He probably should have set up further to the left before the turn. He had the room, although he might not have known how much. Knowing this isn't professional racing and that he's got a terrible line into that corner, I think you could/should have given him more space, but I do put it mostly on Glenn. jmo
Sorry Dave, I'd call that a racing incident, you drift in slightly and he drifts out slightly........ low chance manoeuvre with lots of room on your left still.
It's a racing incident all day long I'm not disputing that. But, I was allowed to be where I was at the point of contact, he wasn't. The space to my left is irrelevant 😁
@@davecamyt yeah, but imo if a slower driver defends for too long then the faster driver has to commit to a move that might end with an incident even if done correctly from the faster driver's perspective
It’s a race incident Dave, what gets me was his attitude more than anything, he tried to act like a smart-ass even before watching the replay, as he even pointed out too. A “sorry, we will watch the replay after the race” goes a long way sometimes.
Do players always send emails after a race if they have an incerdent? That would put me off playing iracing. Why would anyone send an email to a complete stranger, a bit creepy if you ask me.
Glenn incident is just racing, making a big issue about something that doesn't need to be. Like you made contact after the Glenn incident by accident, doesn't need to be a big deal. Move on and keep racing!
If you look closely Glen pushed a bit left off his racing line hitting dave. If both cars were side by side in that turn, glen would have wouldve been at fault.
Cant understand anyone who doesnt think that incidents on Glen, the fact that you have space on the outside is incidental and is mistake number 1 from Glen, he should be holding you to the outside before the corner giving him more space to the inside and meaning you have to back out a bit as well as you cant turn in as much, but having picked such a shallow line he cant just take the corner as if you arent there, and essentially just has to conceed at that point, a simple "i tried to hold it tight but just washed out into you, sorry" would have been more than enough.
That Glen puts the blame on you is stupid... he had a part fault but not completely his fault. I would say racing incident but that he did not replie is not cool as it was partly his fault... And to everyone out there race clearly and have fun!
I'm gonna agree with you here Dave, that move was on as you had earned the right to that space as you were fully along side, I'm a bit surprised by all the people disagreeing with you but everyone is certainly entitled to their opinion. maybe there's an argument to be made that you could have waited seeing as he's a less experienced driver and there was always a risk of that happening, but that "incident" was 100% Glens fault.
It was not 100% Glen's fault. Dave said he was squeezing him as close to the inside as possible to get a better run out, only he did it at the apex point of an awkwardly cambered 140mph corner. It's the most racing incident I've ever seen but Dave put himself in this position unnecessarily. Could have easily been avoided if he had qualified and started ahead of Glen :^)
Definitely not your fault with the collision. You left him enough space. Although, I wouldn't risk an overtake right there, even with the speed advantage. Racing incident. A sorry to clear the air would be common sense though.
In the light of day, this seems to be one of those classic iRacing moments where a single incident sparks a range of perspectives. I think it is great that we can all share our views, even when they differ. I appreciate the support from those who agreed with me, and I respect those who saw things differently. At the time, I felt I was racing fair and giving the other car as much space as possible.
As I am sure most of you can appreciate, I was a bit bummed to be the target of some harsh words and name-calling from someone whose racing videos I admire and have really enjoyed over the years. It seems it might have been said in the heat of the moment, and unfortunately I missed his post-race message as I was chatting with friends on Discord about the race, and I just put it down to one of those iRacing moments and moved on.
It is a bit of a letdown to be judged without a chance to explain, especially since I was not aware of the video until a friend flagged it to me. At the end of the day, while we are all passionate about our sim racing -- and I have spent more on this hobby than I will ever tell my wife! - it is just a game, and we all make mistakes sometimes.
But no worries. There is always another race to run and more new mates to meet on track, so let's move on.
See you all on track with Pete, Phil, Brett and the rest of my Same Day Racing buddies soon!
Cheers, Glenn
Apologies Glenn, my words were a little harsh. Heat of the moment and lessons learned. We both love what we do and no doubt we'll see each other on track and give each other a virtual handshake 😁
Glenn had nowhere to go Dave, that was on you pal.
I think Glenn didn't quite get as far right as he possibly could have, and also there was still a good 15-20 cm still between the cars. While I agree that it's more on Dave, I reckon netcode played more in that, especially since they sprang apart quite strongly. I would have expected that they just scrape together and mostly stay on line? I think wacky physics, and a bit of ping more than any one driver error.
That first incident with Glen is more on you than him. It's a racing incident, but if you look at where the kerb starts @ 28:59, he has moved right onto it and you have come all the way off the left side right up to his car just as he starts to come back off the kerb, so yes, he actually hits you, but if you held your position on the white line, there would be no contact.
Almost identical with Peter, but this time Peter stays off the kerb and keeps his line, so you hit him. Again, racing incident, but you're equally as guilty in both of them.
Edit:- I've added this edit to comment about your replies to people commenting on the incident with Glen. You actually say in the clip "you tell me what you think", and, at my time of reading, all but one who commented on it think the same thing, that you're not completely innocent.
Yet you have replied to each one disagreeing, and refusing to accept any blame.
You put out good content mate. You're fast and a good racer. You have almost 100k subs, so people like your stuff............Yet maybe, just maybe, every now and then you need to hold your hands up and admit you're wrong.
I am completely allowed to use what part track I like if I don't enter the space of the other car. It's the same rules for us all.
@@davecamyt I never said moving right was out of order, but you moved right half the track, whereas he moved left about a yard. These movement were at the same time creating an incident........also I've added an edit.
As a former Race Official and steward, for what its worth, I think Dave did not leave enough room for Glen (who was hugging the apex of the corner). Things move very rapid in Radical cars. It gets heated. I get it. but when the vast majority tell you that you were wrong, just accept it and move on. Great racing, BTW
I hear what you're saying, but...
If the green car took off 5-10kps, would he have drifted to the left?
How much anyone left is irrelevant 👍
I racing it’s about Fun and each respect
“Let’s not rush it”
Then immediately proceeds to attempt a move around the outside which was a low chance of pulling it off. Did you think because he has good safety rating that he would just let you have it?
Two wide through there in the radical is easy. Or should be 👍
Why would you think there is a low chance of pulling it off?
@@davecamyt I would say that trusting a lower rated driver to hold an inch perfect line after he already screwed up the corner before is a bit risky. Starting from the pits on purpose and then complaining that the guys who you should start in front of are rubbish isn't a good look
Dave - that off-trackwas your fault. You cannot go on the outside all the way round at that speed! Inevitable bump. You were even behind at the braking zone.
You need to man up and apologise - you came off as the bell-end this time!
Yes you can 😁
This track doesn't lend well for passing unless someone makes a mistake. A couple of great saves Dave!
I think i was on you, really sh1tty place to be on the outside of that corner, its always better to lift and get a better exit to try in the next braking.
Why do you think it was on me?
@@davecamyt Its "racing inchident" what I meant it wasnt smart to be on the outside on that corner. It was on you to have the knowledge not being a great idea to be there to start with, not the incident itself. So many people die trying to make a move on that corner when its so much easier to lift at the last moment, have the guy have a sh1tty exit and eating him before or at the braking zone of the next corner. Its racing after all. sh1t happens, with the horrible racecraft that I see at iRacing I always take this approach instead. Then theres also netcode in the mix that makes things even worse. Imagine if you did this, you would have eated that 2 guys and maybe got the second place before the race ended. Love your content btw, you are always wise and that pay off. this peticular one didnt went well but it is what it is. cheers
@@davecamyt Because you left him all of about 50mm to hold the corner when you had a couple of metres more to your outside. You can't expect him to hold a line that tight and then get upset at him when he fails. You should have allowed more room.
@@brendanariki yes, I can expect him to hold a tighter line 👍
@@013passion you're incorrect. I didn't turn into anyone 👍
Did three of these races myself today and really enjoyed them. Don't understand the dislike for the SR10. Sure, the SR8 is even more fun to drive here, but that doesn't make the SR10 a bad car. Anyway, gained some safety rating and irating in my races (also started from the pits) so time well spend.
There’s always another side to the story. I was talking to both Glenn and Peter on Discord during the race. They were both enjoying the fact they were racing against you. They are both very experienced drivers who have recently dumped iRating when the licences split in an effort to race in lower split GTs, so 1.7k was not indicative, the SR was though.
There was discussion amongst us after the race about the events, so Glenn didn’t get a chance to send you any messages. He also didn’t believe he did anything wrong. Does that still make him a “Bellend”?
There’s been little discussion about the massive NetCode between Australia and England. Just because cars hit each other doesn’t mean that’s where they were. It looked a bit different from our end.
I also saw the subsequent follow up video that has since been taken down. I did agree with most of the points, but my question would be, when is it ok for a defending car to move over and pinch/compromise the overtaking car? This is clearly an accepted move. What is the difference between “not moving into another car’s space” and “moving over to defend “? I know for a fact that he was doing neither. He was just trying his hardest to give you enough room without conceding the position to you. I can’t Imagine anyone would agree that he should lift and give you all the track you want.
I love your content Dave. Keep them coming. The controversy is also a bit of fun. Clearly there’s a lot of differing opinions, perhaps you could do a video about what the Racing rules say about overtaking and the responsibility of each driver.
I've no issue with Glenn at all and I'm sure he's a very nice bloke. Common courtesy goes a long way with me and for him to refer to me as Dave (when I'm in my other account) during the race would suggest there was a connection. Of course there was contact and it takes two to tango as they say, so for me to reach out to make things all good, just to be ignored after his shitty voice comms wound me up a little. That's all, and that's how he came across (to me). It's all good though from my side.
A little contradictory Dave. “I’ve no issue with Glenn at all”, but you do, as you say, and he’s a “Bellend”.
Clearly you were wound up as he responded to you during the race being blamed for something he didn’t think he did wrong (and seems like the majority here rightly or wrongly agree with him).
As I have also said, he didn’t get a chance to respond to you post race.
Glenn is also trying to comment here, but for some reason is being deleted (no, he’s not using profanity, he’s just trying to smooth the water and “reach out”).
@brettsimmons9001 if it's not abusive, confrontational or spammy I NEVER delete comments, in fact I've just replied to one from him 👍
If you listen, I didn't call him a bell end. In fact, I said I'm sure he isn't one. I said, he came across as one (to me) in that moment.
@@davecamyt Haha, well I guess that makes two of us! Anyway, time to move on. I've loads of respect for you, Dave, and would happily race you on track anytime, safe in the knowledge that you also run hard but fair.
@@davecamytIt’s all good Dave, I wasn’t suggesting you deleted his messages. I see he managed to sort it out and touch base. Let’s move on and get back to the track. The controversy is entertaining though, in a lighthearted way. Keep pushing the content, I watch it daily when I can (yes, I’ve been a subscriber for a few years now).
I think bellend is waaaaay too harsh. He was ahead, hugging the white line, and Dave had, like, a third of the track to his left. Two-wide through flugplatz is, let's be generous and say "ambitious". I suspect it would go down as a racing incident if looked at by race stewards because Dave came off worse, but I certainly wouldn't feel the need to acknowledge it after the race.
I dont think its harsh at all, and here's why...
To establish blame, you have to consider only a couple of things. I am allowed to turn right as long as I don't try and occupy the space he is in (which I didn't in the second incident involving Peter)? The answer is YES. Is he allowed to drift left and occupy the space I am in? The answer is NO. Irrespective of how much track is available on either side for either driver, those are the simple rules that we all have to abide by. That's when you have to adjust your speed accordingly to ensure you can negotiate the turn without doing something you're not supposed to do, i.e drift wide. Two wide through there in the radical is pretty straight forward on warm tyres.
It was the attitude during the race, basically taking the pi$$ and the lack of ownership which bugged me.
Racing incident though I agree. :)
@@davecamyt A few races back (F4 at Hockenheim), you criticized a guy because he hit you even though he had "2 cars width," as you put it, on his other side. So, it's a bit unfair to now say that it doesn't matter how much track is available for either driver. It does matter. If one driver has a more open track to work with, in a tough situation, it's probably best if he uses that space to minimize chances of an incident.
@TBolt1 if someone turns into the space I'm in yes it's an issue. If someone pinches me either inside or outside but leaves me space I've got no issue. I then have to slow down to a point I can make the turn without hitting them. Check out the second to last lap of my GT4 race at Interlagos. I get pinched to the outside which was borderline ok, but imo just racing.
@@davecamyt Yeah, this is on you. Guy was literally in front of you, hugging the right side and you turn on him. You pinched him and paid the price. If anything it was you that should have slowed down if you couldn't make the turn.
@@mcmaddie incorrect 👍
Glenn did absolutely nothing wrong there, Dave. He had the inside through the corner and was always going to wash out wide slightly unless he completely backed out and let you go, which he didn't have to do. You were in the risky positon and if anything turned in on him slightly, either way you should have porbably been the one backing out there. It was a simple racing incident at the end of the day.
No, I disagree. He could easily have made the turn if he slowed. Which he HAS to do otherwise he hits me (which he did). By putting myself in the position I did meant I didn't have to 👍
@@davecamyt well, he thought You will slow down, I would do the same as he
My vote is Dave. It’s a rough spot, both have to work together to get the immediate turn sorted out. They were side by side well before the turn. Both drivers had the responsibility to complete that section cleanly. My opinion would not be the same in a send or dive bomb. It looked like Dave was prepared for the outside line and Glenn disregarded that he would wash out even with a shallow entry. Assuming no malice, The only explanation is Glen expected Dave to roll out of the throttle.
Anyone fancy a pint? 🤪
@@davidmuse6578 agreed Glenn should have done the respectful thing and slowed down it wouldn’t of ever happened this nonsense there’s no reason for this to happen. And he did it again to someone else sorry but if Glenn does see this then he’s definitely a Bellend and he’s welcome 🙏
Dave that my son was Ass twitchingly AWESOME driving Bud. Hugs to you and yours 🫶🏎💨🫶
Well, after that voice chat I would not answer to a message of yours, too …
What was wrong with it?
He took the racing line, which naturally washes out a bit at such a high-speed turn, and left a car's width on the outside all the way through. How hard is it for you to anticipate that and leave extra room? It's completely unreasonable to expect him to stay glued to the inside through there. Btw, you did the exact same thing to Peter yet accepted the blame there...
So, if Glenn slowed a little would he have washed out?
Those are the things you have to do if your line is compromised.
Yes!! Your second point is EXACTLY my point! Not the incident itself, those things happen 😁
@@davecamyt what's the problem with washing out at such a high speed turn, if he is still leaving space for you that you refuse to take? And btw from what I remember in the video, I saw his brake lights going in. That isn't a turn where you have to brake normally in this car. So you have nothing to complain about imo.
@@jamiemb17 you can't wash out into someone else, no matter what the speed. You can't leave space for someone on the other side of their car 🤣
Hopefully tonight's video will explain it
What you just described is cutting people off the track and no that isn't allowed in racing. And there wouldn't have been a car's width if he didn't use Dave as a brake, he was understeering quite heavily at the time of the contact.
@@sp33dou washing out from the apex a bit is not "cutting people off the track", tf
Wow. Lots of wrath for Dave tonight! As a 1.5k newbie, I’m not qualified to comment. I do know though that single screen racing always makes this sort of thing tricky. Anyway, keep up the great content and don’t waste too much time replying to every comment 😉
It makes interesting reading and an obvious talking point for a video. It would appear that a lot don't 'get it' 😁
iRating is far more indicative of safety than safety rating. Trying it around the outside of flugplatz against a 1.7k driver, when you’re not even ahead of him at entry… you might as well roll a pair of dice and hope for sixes. I also don’t think he did anything egregiously wrong, just missed the apex a little which is easy to do for lower skill drivers who are trying to avoid the high curbs.
I agree, I said in the video I don't think it was intentional or done with malice.
That was some dash from the pits to the sharp end Dave.
Unfortunately my reactions are not quick enough to be able to drive the Radical well. (or anything else come to think of it 😂)
Keep them coming.
👍
Great morning Dave! Cant wait to enjoy your video and a cup of coffee before work.
Morning Justin. Don't be late 😁
@@davecamyt I should be ok today unless you surprise me again with 2 videos back to back 😂
It’s a racing incident pure and simple. No further action. Great racing with brilliant late Dottinger passing strategy 🏆🏁
I would highly recommend you looking into Randy Pobst 'Vortex of Danger' concept and the reflecting on that move.
That's you entering the exit Vortex if I've ever seen one.
Guys, this is a great one to watch while you're seated in your own racing rig / desk / whatever. Trust me.😯 Sorry, I disagree with you Dave. That corner wasn't likely to end well, but 28:59 -- you just turned right towards his line. He has no room on his side of the track, and of course, he's about to slide left right into you because of the shape of that section of track. Racing incident at best. But, Race Control called -- they give you a 5 second penalty. Also, 10-grid place penalty for using transparent halos in the F4.
I turned right (as it's a right handed corner), but not into his space. I'm allowed to do that. He's not allowed to drift left into mine. Again, I'll say that he has to slow so he doesn't drift left into me. I've done what I needed to do, getting a better exit out of the proceeding left to get a good run to put myself in a great overtaking position, (pinching him in) to slow him down to get the move done. I'll possibly make a video on it 😁
Thanks Dave, I enjoyed that.
I think "Bellend" might be a bit too harsh in this case. Full disclosure: Glenn is a mate of mine, and we’ve had a bit of a debate about this in our Discord channel. While on face value I said to Glenn that he may owe Dave a pint, we went to the video ref and after reviewing the video we have available and looking at a screenshot of the track position and the line Glenn was taking at the time, I’m siding with Glenn on this one. Given Dave’s experience, is it fair to wonder if Dave should have anticipated the possibility of contact with a lower-rated driver at that speed and on that part of the track? But, of course, it’s always easier to judge these things in hindsight rather than in the heat of the race. That said, with Dave being significantly faster than me on this track, , let's be honest in general, I probably would have yielded, whether that was the right move or not.
All that aside, let's not get to radical, it's just a game, and we live and learn. Keep up the great content, Dave!
Hi dave, I love your channel and videos. One point on the Glen incident if I try to put myself into Glens shoes. I race personally with 49 inch ultra wide monitor. I have no room for triples in my apartment and I cannot use VR due to insane nausea in causes me. So most like you would have been in my blind spot at the moment of turn-in in that corner and therefore I would have just tried to keep it as close to inside as I can to leave you room on the outside, but I would have not been able to react to you pinching me in like that, so I think that I might have crashed with you also in that corner. I am sure that there is also still plenty of people racing with single screen 16:9 monitor with even more limited FOV than I do. Therefore I would recommend leaving a little bit more room for other racers especially on corners like this. I am not blaming you or Glen, but I think that move was just asking for trouble.
I'm on a single screen. If you check out my last video in the F4 at VIR you'll see that being on a single is no excuse 😁
The incident with Glenn was, I’m my understanding, Your fault, as you turned inside the corner, where You should have stayed on the left side.
You can be where ever you like when overtaking. Being close to the other guy compromise his line which you want to do. People forget that.
My monitor closed after that incident in Schwedenkreuz, that's why I disappeared on your POV Dave..good race tho, had to save the car multiple times due to not having a spoiler 👍! Hope to race in the same lobby with you again!
GREAT DRIVING DAVE
It looks like close racing with Glen. Contact happens.
Couldn't agree more.
you turn into glenn
sorry Dave
Watch again. Incorrect.
WHAT A RACE, JEEZ.
Cracking race Dave, but have to say with the first incident, I would have tucked in behind and tried to use the straight to do the overtake myself. That corner is like the kink going up to the Karosel. You can go two wide if one of you lifts, but no one ever does.
I'd done all the work to put myself in a position to overtake and compromised his line enough so he had to slow. Turns out he didn't 😁
That’s 2 in a row that Dave’s suffered through with damage. That’s how the cookie crumbles I guess.
Well, he didnt do anything wrong
Apart from not holding a line and hit me. No, he didn't.
Dave I think you need a break from iRacing, you're usually bang on with your views but this just looks like a racing incident all day long, most of the comments say the same.
He doesn't even wash out that wide and makes a pretty good effort attempt of hugging the inside.
If you pause it at the point of contact he's close to the inside curb and only washes out after its all over.
You were always going to come off worse being on the outside, I'm pretty sure you would normally just grab a late apex and take him on the next straight.
It is a racing incident all day long, I've never suggested otherwise. But, there is a cause. My video later should explain 😁
I've got .2 to get for my A license , expecting a long day at work over in Wigton tommorow , hopefully I can get back and get a quick grind on
Great race, I wanted to try those cars but they are a handful..
Pause at 29:19 Dave is pointed on the outside of the racing line. Glenn is also, but he should be pointed to the inside of the racing line. By no means intentional though. Only thing you can put on Dave is that he can look at the SoF and think overtaking there isn't best considering how much faster he was. But there's something about "if you no longer go for a gap...."
Uhm, you should have another look... at 29:18 he is against the left white line. at 29:20 he is on the right side up against the other car. freeze framing a single point only shows you that moment in time it complete negates the fact he moved all the way across the track to where the other car was.
31:08 he assumed he had the room to squeeze through but didn’t slow down to actually do it .
9:45 “He has got a good safety rating” 😭
What a race !!
Pits to Podium - Sounds like a series to me
Great Race Dave. I always check the replay after the race to double check - and I think that it was a racing incident. That said, the lack of acknowledgement, yeah, bellend.
27:40 Dave playing 4D chess
wow what a scrap, great race dave :)
17:25 Ayrton senna acceleration blips.. 👌
13:47 I felt that
The glenn accident is on him. He understeered in to you. You are allowed to overtake where you like. So i side with you dave.
Glenn was pretty far right, almost as far as he could have been. I would most certainly say that Glenn is innocent. Dave was quite brave, and I don't think going for the move was a mistake or dangerous, but he expected Glenn to hold too tight of a line.
More so however, is the fact that there was still clearance between the cars, 15-20 centimetres worth. I would say that this is more on ping/net-code, than any one driver. But if you had to blame someone, it would be Dave.
Radicals and Nordschleife what could go wrong? 😂 😅
Dave, I had no idea you can DM racers after the race. I think that’s a great display of sportsmanship. How do you do that if you aren’t friends with them on iRacing?
This might be a stupid question but how do message long after the race had finished?
I’ve tried to work it out but can’t but there is obviously a way
I think you are turning into the green car.
Incorrect
If anything you turned into him lol he was well over
Incorrect 🤣
@@davecamyt he is so far over when you hit him lmao come on man btw i do love your videos im not a hater i genuinally think youre wrong on this 1
I think you need to watch it a few more times. 😁
I think that if that clip went on r/Simracingstewards I think you'll find that that incident with Glenn was slightly on you Dave. Sorry! I think you turned in a bit much and he was infact hugging the line. Close racing nevertheless and except for the 4x, no harm done.
That is so incorrect 🤣
I don’t understand how anyone is saying this is 100% Dave’s fault. For one thing, Dave said his main issue was the lack of accountability and not incident itself.
And if there was a car on my outside, I’d naturally adjust my speed so that the “inevitable wash out” wouldn’t happen, why? Because there’s another car there! They were side by side. It shouldn’t matter if Dave’s nose was ahead or not, if there’s another driver there, give them room!
I think the whole thing is a huge non-issue and it’s kind of weird to see how it’s playing out. Dude made a small mistake battling in an awkward corner and Dave put himself into that situation for not being a bit more cautious into it.
I can see both sides of these comments, but ultimately I think calling someone out and suggesting they’re a “bellend” about a race incident is uncalled for. Neither driver made any egregious errors or broke any rules.
@@Tapport I see what you’re saying, and I agree about the incident not being a big deal or malicious etc, but he did punt Dave off the track, irrespective of whether or not it was a wise move, he collided with Dave.
And that leads to the main issue and that people are missing:
Dave emphasised in the video that he wasn’t calling him a bellend, but saying that’s how he came across when he implied Dave went off the track as though the contact never happened.
It’s frustrating when people don’t take accountability for their role in incidents.
The hole front of his car was missing if I’m not mistaken? So clean driver ……😂
If I got anything out of this video it's that no matter the irating or the safety rating, some people just don't understand how to do close, wheel to wheel racing 😂
I’m don’t agree with your take on this one. He’s ahead into a one line corner, you expecting him not to drift out is careless in my view, just putting yourself in a bad position. Especially since there’s a long straight right afterwards. Also if something like that happens and the person immediately blames me over voice chat, I will not be in an apologetic mode if I was in one before 🤷♂️. Just my 2 cents, been loving the content tho
I presume you didn't see the replay at the end.
@@davecamyt”now tell me what you think” was just following instructions 🤷♂️🫡
@@toast0244 good point 🤣
@@davecamyt you could have given more space though and consider irating into the calculation of your move
@@krizz0rr Did I turn into him, or did I leave more than a car?
First incident - I replayed it a few times including at 20% speed and in my opinion you are clearly trying to take the corner close to racing line, which is occupied by Glenn. I don't remember if Radical can take the wider line flat out or if you should have slowed down, but in my mind that's on you. He left you 1-2 cars width of space. I mean, you start turning in before Glenn even reaches the apex while still being straight, you can't just force a move like that. If your argument is he had to slow down to take the tighter line, you had to slow down to take the wider line. And he was ahead at the apex anyhow. I don't understand why you disagree with it in other comments. Your car is steering into his before the apex, and even after the apex he's very close to sticking it tight, while you had your space if you were willing to go wider as you in my opinion should have. You thought he'd stick perfectly to the curb but he had no obligation to do that and it's also unreasonable to expect it, since touching that curb sends you outside anyway.
Hopefully tonight's video will explain things a bit better for you 😁
28:56 Just my opinion, the other guy is definitely at fault for the collision due to him massively pinching his entry by an entire car width and then some and running wide on exit, however if I were in this position I wouldn't even bother going for the move on the outside. The flugplatz is coming up immediately after this and you can draft by him if you stay behind him until then. I would've waited until there or possibly the brake zone at Aremberg to attempt this pass. There's enough drafting sections on this track that it doesn't usually make sense to attempt a pass in a non braking zone turn.
Aussie accent is guaranteed latency netcode if he's down under.
While I see Daves side here, you're the passing car. It's your job to facilitate a clean pass.
Using context clues, I would bet that glenn isn't as experienced. Both on the Nords or in general. He's 1.7k, this could've been his first season.
So to choose that corner and expect him to lift when you don't have your nose ahead is not wise. Especially when you have a clean car that's draft heavy and you're going onto a long straight. It's best to just wait behind and pass in the next braking zone.
Instead, you chose to stay on his outside and expect a lift when he doesn't owe you one. And surprise, he doesn't. And he runs you into the wall.
That's on you, dave.
If he can't make the turn without hitting me he HAS to lift. Those are basics 😁
@davecamyt True. BUT
1. He's inexperienced, so chances he lifts are slim.
2. You are the passing car. It's your job to facilitate a SAFE pass. Pinching him on a tight corner is not safe. He missed three apexes in a row, I don't know how you expect him to hit that one while you're pinching him.
3. The draft is extremely powerful. There was about 1.5 to 2 km of track that's flat out just after this. Stay behind him and get that draft down into the next braking zone. Had you done that, you would have a clean car and potentially have caught and passed P2. Then maybe p1.
There's a lot of people in the comments saying exactly what I'm saying now. Maybe re-analyze what happened and go from there?
Cheers
I hear what you're saying but all that is irrelevant. We're talking about one specific moment. He HAS to lift to get around with making contact.
I'm not fussed at all about the incident itself, it happens.
What do you think after one year? Invicta or forte wheelbase?
Both are superb. I'd chose the Invicta just because it's much better on paper but in reality if be happy with the Forte 😁
I think the Invicta is better then forte but is the Invicta worth the extra money?
I still wish they didn’t nuke this series with the SR10. I use to run the radial series with the free SR8’s all the time. But now it doesn’t have the participation cause no one including my self doesn’t wanna buy the new car
Hey Dave, love watching your races. Curious though, how do you show us all the incidents at the end of the race? I've tried to do it at the end of my races in iracing by saving the replay and then viewing it, and selecting view incidents only. But it seems like when i try and view the carnage in my races, the iracing replay just jumps around a bunch and doesn't actually show the leadup and the carnage. ANyways would love to know how you're able to. Thanks for the content!
I just use ctrl numpad 1 and 3 to cycle through. Occasionally I have to rewind a little to get the build up 👍
@@davecamyt Thanks Dave, i'll give it a shot next time i'm on. Keep on rocking!
just a racing inchident
i guess he technically did have a bit of space left between him and the curb, but besides the funky iRacing netcode, it is already a difficult corner to pass on the outside, and personally i wouldnt put so much trust into the guy next to me even if they have high SR. im more of a "live to fight another day" kind of driver though.
While i think post incident Glenn was out of order, i think maybe you should give him a bit more room mid corner. If it was on the run off out the corner its all on him but mid corner its just a racing incident as he did not have any space to work with.
I agree, just a racing incident
Brake bias at 58!!! Damn, I thought I was low at 60.5
Why so low, strictly for rotation?
You drove lap 1 like you'd won a Gregg's Pasty! (Can you tell I just watched Julie's video?).
i tell you what i think: netcode was definately involved. you pinched him pretty hard, he slided to the outside and thats why there was contact. racing incident.
2nd contact with peter: exactly my opinion. you just turned into him. shit happens.
Dang, I swear iRacing SR calculations are crazy. I don't see how you can have 8x and not lose any SR. My last race last night I only had 3x (1x in practice 0x quali) and lost .1even after the 2 races before being 0x and gaining .1 in both.
Safety rating is calculated by corners per incident. This was a long race with a bunch of corners so the relative incidents per corner were probably less
Yeah, I get that and iRacing even says that they adjust the multiplier determined by how many corners each track has to account for that. I just wish they were more clear and told us exactly how it was calculated.
For example the race I referenced above. I finished P3 (not that it matters) and had 4x total in the session (3x in the race, 1x in practice, 0x in quali) and I lost .1 SR. The winner of the race had 8x total in the session (6x in the race, 0x in practice, and 2x in quali) but gained .01 SR! How does that make sense!? His previous 3 races (all at the same track, all laps complete) were 5x, 9x, and 12x (in the race), where as my previous 3 races (all at the same track, all laps complete) were all 0x.
It just doesn't make sense! It makes it seem like the cleaner you race the more they penalize you for incidents when you do have them.
@@yonson_racing Your SR license class makes a big difference to how much incidents affect SR. So in your example the first thing you'd need to make sure of is that you're comparing apples to apples as far as licence class is concerned. The same # of incidents in a race will have far more effect on an A License than a B license, which in turn will have more of an effect than on a C license... and so on. Also did both drivers complete all the possible corners in both race and qually in ALL the races you mentioned? iRacing continues to count corners completed after the race ends until the final car crossed the finish line. Qually corners continue to be counted after your 2 hotlaps until the session ends. Also SR is calculated over ~2600 corners. That's typically a lot more than just a few races. E.g. A 15 lap race of 15 corners per lap is only 225 corners per race, plus 45 corners for qually = 270. Which is only about a tenth of the 2600 that are part of the SR calculation. Unfortunately iRacing does not share the exact formula they use, but there are some detailed explanations you can read up on if you want to understand it in more depth. Simracingsetup has one for example.
Thanks, that definitely helps explain it better. I didn't know that it was harsher the higher your license is and I don't recall seeing that anywhere in the iRacing documentation. That absolutely explains my examples above though. Because I'm Class A and the other I was comparing to is Class C (even though his IR is close to 8K). This also really helps to explain why I see a lot of drivers with 2 or even 3 times my IR with only C or D licenses having regular 8+ incident races and rarely ever losing SR, when I can have a 3x or sometimes even 2x race and lose SR, it's quite frustrating... Guess it's time to get demoted a couple classes so I don't have to worry about getting a few more 1x's each race if it helps advance IR. (not really, but it definitely explains why a lot of racers never go to higher classes.)
@davecam how do you message people post race? I’m new to iracing and have wanted to DM people a couple of times to congratulate and/or apologise.
You have to do it through the forum.
Right click the driver's name on the entries/results in the sim and you can send a private message 👍
I used to manage the Radical series and it was in the last 3 seasons I think the draft got ridiculous. It's way out of hand now
The net code from Australia is annoying at best. I’ve had many races destroyed by it. Not sure why it’s so bad on iR when no issues anywhere else
Both green and pink cars slightly missed their turn in and were a little off the apex, but the green car lost the back end sightly as well.
No offense to them, but they're not 1.7k or so because they're great at holding their lines. Gotta give them a wider birth than normal, and you take your life into your hands when you go on their outside. And you pinched them both slightly. Definately more room on the outside in both incidents.
If I leave more room they don't have to slow to make the turn. I'd put all the work in to get into that position. It's just a racing incident though.
is the csl dd any good?
Yes it's good but there are much better options out there if you're on pc 👍
by ‘last official’ does that mean you’re taking a break in week 13, or doing a bunch of unrated races?
I've just got some other stuff to do 👍
You're not doing the last PCC Mustang race tomorrow?
4:56 XD
Never change Dave, never change. "Car ahead is P10" I have no Idea where we are we could be in the top 10
it said peter not p10, had to double check lol
Why is iRacing the only racing sim to have netcode issues? In this video alone, I have seen three instances. However, when you try to discuss this on the iRacing official Facebook group, everyone defends it and says that netcode issues are pretty rare.
Intense that one 👌
The 'Glenncident' is a tough one but i agree with you, Dave.
The key thing here is Glenn HAS to slow to hold that tight line, he doesn't appear to and thats why there is contact in my opinion. When running side by side like that the tighter line is always the slower one as you have to slow to keep the nose tight to avoid the understeer 🤷♂️ Great race though, i think we can all agree on that 😎
My take on the incident with Glenn... I would have liked to have seen a replay from his point of view. The first time I watched the replay, I thought it was a racing incident... He was drifting out a bit and you were pinching in a bit. But, after watching it slowed down, I do think it was mostly Glenn's fault. With the way he's drifting out, I'm not sure he's staying on the track without hitting you. He took that turn way to fast with how close he was to the right hand side. He probably should have set up further to the left before the turn. He had the room, although he might not have known how much. Knowing this isn't professional racing and that he's got a terrible line into that corner, I think you could/should have given him more space, but I do put it mostly on Glenn. jmo
Sorry Dave, I'd call that a racing incident, you drift in slightly and he drifts out slightly........ low chance manoeuvre with lots of room on your left still.
It's a racing incident all day long I'm not disputing that. But, I was allowed to be where I was at the point of contact, he wasn't. The space to my left is irrelevant 😁
Dave finds out 1.7k's don't lift 🤭
So true 🤣
Nice to see you bully your way past glenn and peter, no apologies neccessary
Bully? Following for two laps bullying? Ok...
Look, we found glen!
@@davecamyt the enjoyable kind of bully
@@davecamyt yeah, but imo if a slower driver defends for too long then the faster driver has to commit to a move that might end with an incident even if done correctly from the faster driver's perspective
Nice video and good racing Dave, looks like you've got the algorithm for y/tube worked out judging by all the comments? you bellend🙈
It’s a race incident Dave, what gets me was his attitude more than anything, he tried to act like a smart-ass even before watching the replay, as he even pointed out too. A “sorry, we will watch the replay after the race” goes a long way sometimes.
BELLEND!
Do players always send emails after a race if they have an incerdent? That would put me off playing iracing. Why would anyone send an email to a complete stranger, a bit creepy if you ask me.
No emails
Typical people blaming Dave, these are the people that most likely cause incidents in iracing. No race knowledge at all.
Glenn incident is just racing, making a big issue about something that doesn't need to be. Like you made contact after the Glenn incident by accident, doesn't need to be a big deal. Move on and keep racing!
The incident isn't a big deal at all. It's the shitty attitude over voice Comms which I'm calling out 😁
If you look closely Glen pushed a bit left off his racing line hitting dave. If both cars were side by side in that turn, glen would have wouldve been at fault.
ja tootler
It’s things like this that made me give up on iRacing. Well that and the awful safety rating system. Too much drama.
Cant understand anyone who doesnt think that incidents on Glen, the fact that you have space on the outside is incidental and is mistake number 1 from Glen, he should be holding you to the outside before the corner giving him more space to the inside and meaning you have to back out a bit as well as you cant turn in as much, but having picked such a shallow line he cant just take the corner as if you arent there, and essentially just has to conceed at that point, a simple "i tried to hold it tight but just washed out into you, sorry" would have been more than enough.
Yep, absolutely spot on 👍
That Glen puts the blame on you is stupid... he had a part fault but not completely his fault. I would say racing incident but that he did not replie is not cool as it was partly his fault... And to everyone out there race clearly and have fun!
maybe the guy has a life outside iracing you know, why people are expecting others to use forums all day?
I never understand people defending so hard when they are clearly SECONDS slower. I rather just lift, and learn from there lines its not worth it
I'm gonna agree with you here Dave, that move was on as you had earned the right to that space as you were fully along side, I'm a bit surprised by all the people disagreeing with you but everyone is certainly entitled to their opinion. maybe there's an argument to be made that you could have waited seeing as he's a less experienced driver and there was always a risk of that happening, but that "incident" was 100% Glens fault.
It was not 100% Glen's fault. Dave said he was squeezing him as close to the inside as possible to get a better run out, only he did it at the apex point of an awkwardly cambered 140mph corner. It's the most racing incident I've ever seen but Dave put himself in this position unnecessarily. Could have easily been avoided if he had qualified and started ahead of Glen :^)
People are missing the point. Contact happens, it's racing. It's the shitty voice comms I got and the lack of any acknowledgement 👍
@@davecamyt I get it, "was I the one who went off track or was it you?" would've had me heated as well.
Definitely not your fault with the collision. You left him enough space. Although, I wouldn't risk an overtake right there, even with the speed advantage. Racing incident. A sorry to clear the air would be common sense though.
Exactly 👍