Triumph Bonneville Speedmaster: Urgent Upgrades I Can't Afford - Belt Drive Conversion
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- Опубліковано 30 тра 2023
- I love my Bonneville Speedmaster, but there are several URGENT upgrades I need, but they're just too expensive. The first of these is a conversion from standard, horrible, feeble, dirty chain drive, to glorious belt drive.
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Another great video Chris. I agree with the vast majority of your comments and rationale. The biggest obstacle for me in converting my Speedmaster to belt drive isnt the cost, its the fact that the frame needs to be cut. Yes, the Free Spirits kit (and probably the other one you mentioned) provides a bracket to bridge the area of frame that is cut, that just puts me off.
I'll make a deal with you. If you do it (and report no problems with Triumph re frame cutting) , then i will do it too.
Afternoon Craig - sorry, I seem to have missed your note.
The frame butchering thing really got me too - I was stunned when I read that! However, I watched the Free Spirits video & looked at their instruction sheets and was reassured. (Not that I'd be doing any of the work anyway.) The replacement bracket looks solid and well designed.
I would love to 'do it' - but, alas, I don't have that sort of cash. However, if I win the lottery, or something, I'll do a video of the process - I'd love to do that too!
Cheers,
Chris
I get over 100,000 miles out of a belt drive. Easy to change. I rode a shovel head HD with a primary belt and a final belt drive. Bike was smooth as silk. How many chains and sprockets needed to do the same distance. Expensive and messy. Lots of bikes in the old days had enclosed chain. I tolerate chain drive on my Triumph vintage motorcycles but not road bikes.
Thanks for sharing Chris, I never knew about QPD. I shall bookmark them.
Thanks for appreciating me Jonathan! I'm glad the QPD info. was helpful.
Cheers,
Chris
I also like the idea of belt drive. How many chains and sprocket refreshes would it take to cost the same as the belt upgrade, two or three? Maybe four but just think how much more enjoyable it would be to not have to clean and lube a chain.
Afternoon Carl - all I can say is, I couldn't agree more!
Cheers,
Chris
There's a lot to be said for chain drive. It's very dependable. Chains and sprockets don't wear out in 5,000 miles regardless of what a dealership will tell you, unless it is of such bad quality it has no place on a motorcycle. I've ridden them until the rollers fall off, and I've seen the teeth on sprockets wear the points off until they were nothing more than gentle waves, and it wasn't until then that the chain jumped the sprocket teeth, all the while still staying on of course.
I remember getting a rear sprocket for my dirt bike that was advertised as being most likely the last sprocket you would ever have to buy and they were right. I couldn't wear it out. They said it made out of a certain kind of stainless steel that had to be cut with a laser. Whatever, but I could not wear it out. It was as advertised.
I used to think you have to oil and lube and let the chain make a mess of everything, but then I found out that isn't necessarily so. I remember finding a certain kind of chain lube that was as advertised, and it would not fling, and it stayed wet on the chain. It was amazing. I remember being accused of lubing my chain on the fly as we were on a desert poker run because my chain was the only one that was still black and looked wet and clean. The stuff really worked. I forgot the name of it.
If I had a chain now, and if I couldn't find that product, I might try tungsten disulfide powder mixed with alcohol from a spray plastic spray bottle, or maybe just use some thick grease, wiping it all off, using it only to keep the chain from rusting, and then just ride it 'till the rollers fall off. I've been riding with shaft drive on my street bikes for nearly 40 years now. I've heard that belts and pulleys also wear out and need replacing often enough. Nothing ever wore out on my drive shaft bikes, relating to driveline. That was 2 different bikes with combined mileage of 200,000 miles.
Hi Ray - I hadn't realised you'd commented so much! (Sorry for the delay in replying - lots to deal with at my end...)
I've never riden a shaft drive bike, but I much prefer it to chain. You seem very happy with chains, even though you're on a shaft now. Me, I still hate chains and always will. Each to his own, I suppose.
Cheers,
Chris
My original Speedmaster chain has now gone more than 18,000 miles and is still in great condition, as well are the sprockets.
I envy you Kimball!
Sorry Chris, don’t agree, like Kinballi I’m a chain man “example” my 09 Triumph tiger 36780mls. O ring chain adjusted twice, two European trips one of which was 7000mls. in a month including south as far as Croatia and as far north as St. Petersburg’s Russia. NO OILING just a wipe with a rag soaked in WD. I do long trips if a chain snaps (which has never happened) I can get it replaced in any country, if the belt gets damaged (which it can) you are buggered an to replace the swing arm has to come out. I REST MY CASE FOR THE CHAIN. 💪😎 Oh yeah, how many people keep their bike for twenty years these days. 1 in 20 🤭🍻
Agree with pretty much all you say. Belt drive on a single sided swing arm would be easier although when the suspension is loaded and unloaded this would alter the belt tension risking slippage if I am correct?
I have a Gates belt drive bicycle with Rohloff Speedhub. It is pretty much, well it is, maintenance free. The seat stay of the rear triangle of the frame detaches from the rear drop out to allow a belt to pass to be installed or removed. Gone is the chore of maintaining and servicing rotten derailleur gears which are a nightmare by comparison.
Motorcycle chains are better though, but still need maintenance. I don't ride in winter and have Scottoilers on my bikes which are a massive help keeping the chain cleaner, free of corrosion and lasting many more miles.
A belt kit for a Speedmaster is a very attractive option although as I say I don't ride in winter with lots of salt and crud on the roads and certainly not with any chance of rain. It might be a bit restrictive but I want my bike(s) to last a long time. But as you conclude the cost is prohibitive. Gates do complete kits of bicycles ie the belt plus front chain rings and rear sprockets so why couldn't they branch out into offering cost effective kits for motorcycles especially cruisers as well? Maybe they do for Harleys as Gates are American? I don't know.
A Gates carbon CDX belt for a bicycle costs about £75-80, stainless steel rear sprocket similar price £75-80 and front chain ring anything from £50-90 depending on size and material.
The important thing when installing a belt drive is to get the belt line perfectly straight. If it is at all out then you can get premature wear of the belt leading to failure or indeed the belt coming off.
Zero uses Gates belts on it's EV bikes. Marc Travels, the German guy, has just put a new belt on his Zero naked bike after a lot of kms although he has ridden his bike hard and far. They are certainly a better option than chain imho. A spare is very light to carry and takes up hardly any room when properly coiled.
ua-cam.com/video/BfmWuqynkVE/v-deo.html
Also Gates are big on manufacturing vehicle cam belts.
Many thanks.
Afternoon Alex - I am an (almost) all weather rider, so a belt is a must. I hate chains!
Buell put a single sided swing arm on some of their bikes and used a tensioner to keep the belt snug. I've no idea how good it was, but I assume it was pretty excellent.
Cheers,
Chris
I bought a speed master a year and a half ago… my other bikes I owned all had shaft drives… so I was kind of dreading dealing with a chain again… it’s not to bad .. I just throw some lube on it before every ride (WD-40) chain lube.. and it’s been fine… the bike should really come with a belt drive though…. If they built it with a belt.. the price wouldn’t go up that much… it’s more to convert a chain to a belt…
Afternoon Buz - yes, I too think the Speedmaster should have belt drive, but alas, I don't hold much sway with Triumph!
I use the ScotOiler, which helps, but makes a real mess. So, I still hate chains!
Cheers,
Chris
I think chains are easier to remove and replace. Quite often the frame is in the way so bikes that come with a belt are designed to assist with this issue.
Morning Orange - yip, you're right. The Free Spirits kit specifies that a bracket needs to be ground off (the supply a nicely looking machined part to bolt in in its place). It never occurred to me, but it's obvious now I know! (Links can be removed from chains but belts are one piece.)
Cheers,
Chris
Just had a look in detail at the installation instructions for the Free Spirits kit and although it involves cutting the frame adjacent to the swing arm axle it seems straight forward if a little amateur in the fittings. They look like aluminium which is not good, but I suppose they could be stainless steel. Why they couldn't be painted black to match the rest of the frame and neighbouring components I don't know? However if you ever need to change a belt it is not a straight forward process. The Speedmaster sprocket housing cover, the coolant expansion tank and brake fluid reservoir mounted on the inside of the cover but in front of the final drive sprocket all have to be removed. The swing arm axle then has to be removed and then the installation fitting kit adjacent to it where the frame was cut which enables the belt to be fitted or replaced as the previous one has snapped. At least with a chain you presumably do not have to do the latter removing the fitting kit as the frame hasn't been cut but you would still need to remove the cover, coolant tank and brake fluid reservoir and then join the chain successfully and securely perhaps easier with a quick link?
As superior as belts are compared to chains I think on the Speedmaster I would stick with chain as replacing the belt is probably more time consuming and hassle than chain even if you take into account joining a new chain as well. If you only ride in fine weather like me, then a belt upgrade becomes less of a necessity and more preference a luxury and certainly not cost effective. It's easy to keep a chain maintained in dry summer weather. I was hoping that installing or changing a belt on a Speedmaster was going to simple like on a bicycle or indeed Zero's EV bikes, but sadly not. I guess if you ride a lot of miles in all seasons then yes it becomes attractive but otherwise it's hard to justify the cost. Maintenance is not really an issue on low mileage fair weather use bikes with chains.
Would cutting your Speedmaster's frame invalidate your Triumph warranty on your bike if you still had one? Best not do it on a new bike, only on one where the warranty had lapsed.
Hi again Alex - I too worry about the warranty (see my 1 year evaluation video): I can NOT be without my extended warranty!
I wonder if a nice dealer - I use Bridge in Exeter - they would do the work and still maintain the guarantee? I think that's the way I would go. I hadn't apreciated how much hassle the belt is to change, but since a belt lasts so long, I would not worry abou that.
Belts rule, dude!
Cheers,
Chris
Another advantage of belt drive is that the belt absorbs mechanical load shocks , so they reduce vibration and potentially increase reliability over time . This advantage is particularly useful in camshaft drives and primary drives . Cam drive helps even out the valve spring loads and the crank to the clutch drive , primary drive , can even out engine vibs ( much like a dual mass car flywheel ) . I am not sure if a final drive has so much of a mechanical dampening advantage for the biker , but I would not be too surprised to hear otherwise . So belts help reliability and smooth vibration ...a good thing I think .
Belts do have a downside though . They can fail with no obvious signs of wear , unless they are badly aligned and scuff as a result . So when would an owner change their belt ? A mileage or time period ? When the manufacturer says so ?
I have had chains snap on me twice whilst driving bikes . I had no problems thank goodness , just a chain left on the road behind me ! The only clue I had was thar changing down to get some power on did nothing and the engine revving like no one's business , until I sussed maybe the drive was gone , lol . But I was very lucky . I do not know what a final belt drive would do if and when it snapped .
Overall , I think I would give the belt drive thumbs up over a chain , unless the chain was encased and sat in an oil bath , which would be ugly .... think CG125 , MZ . I loved borrowing a certain Kawasaki 400 with a belt as standard , but those do not come up for sale !
Morning David - thanks for the comment.
I had to Google the 'Kawasaki 400 with a belt a standard': I had no idea Kawasaki put a belt on a bike. It can't have been many models... Is the one you mention the Z440 twin? It's the only one I could find with a belt. I just never knew! Looks like a nice bike though...
Cheers,
Chris
I never realized that about vibration, an advantage to belt drive over chain. I had one chain break on me too and it was a new one. I found out I had over tightened it and when I compressed the suspension over a deep bump the chain had tightened to its limit and that was enough to snap it, a brand new one too, and not a cheap one. My fault.
Does a conversion to belt drive cause an ECU error on the Euro 4 and Euro 5 Triumph? Changes in sprocket size is detected by the ECU on many motorcycles starting in 2021.
Afternoon MrEye - I have no idea; I've never heard that the ECU is able to detect sproket size. I would guess not as many Triumph Bonneville riders have changed the sproket/pully without issue. But I don't know for sure.
Cheers,
Chris
I have the Free Spirit belt conversion on mine, yes it is expensive but to me it was money well spent, it seems to be much smoother and it's great not to be having to clean and grease the chain, it is slightly lower gearing which suits me, you do have to do a slight mod to make it fit but it's not difficult, I also have a Sportster so I was used to that before getting the Speedmaster.
Afternoon Martin - many thanks for your input.
If I could, I'd have the Free Spirits kit too: they seem so well designed & put together. I've only seen one person on the forums (from a few years ago) who had the QPD conversion, and they were mostly pleased with it too.
I would also like the lower gearing as the Speedmaster revs too freely for me. I'd like to be able to compare the QPD/Free Spirits kits, but at the moment, the Free Spirits seems better.
Interesting that you've got a Sportster too; I loved mine. As I noted in the vid, the loss of torque is noticeable... and much lamented for me!
So which do you ride more? Sportster or Speedmaster?
Cheers,
Chris
@@chrisoftheot6272 I tend to ride the Triumph more especially for longer runs and it's more comfortable for anyone on the pillion, I have the Corbin seat which helps on that, I have had the Sportster for 18 years (it's 28 years old now) and won't be parting with it anytime soon. Both bikes have had suspension upgrades
Morning Martin - nice to hear that you treasure that Sportster: just as it should be! As for comfort, obvioulsy the Speedmaster is going to win on that (!) and, like you, I upgraded the suspension on my Sportster even before I got it. Now, as I am pushing 60, I get significant back pain and find even the Speedmaster offers far too many 'ouchies': that suspension needs an upgrade for me too!
Cheers,
Chris
Hi Chris, after watching you video again about all the problems you had with your Speedmaster I thought I'd check in to see how the bike is now. Are you still having problems with it?
Cheers, Sky.
Afternoon Sky - nice to hear from you again. Sorry for my very delayed response, but stuff has been going on and, somehow I don't get the FaceTube message alerts I used to so I miss many.
Now that Bridge in Exeter have performed their surgery on my Speedmaster, it's been fine - not even any oil disappearing! I recently had the service light tell me to spend more and the service was fine. I'm at about 17,000 miles now but, importantly, the last 7.000 have been trouble free! Hurrah!
Cheers Sky,
Chris
Really, really surprised that you don't consider a tubeless wheel conversion a priority. Did you enjoy your puncture on 4th April? I certainly didn't on mine soon after I purchased the bike. I was so panic-striken about being 3-4 hours from the nearest recovery vehicle when touring Northern Scotland that I saw this an an essential touring modification. (The panic was about missing a nice dinner!)
I would be happy with a cheap-to-produce accessory chain enclosure to keep the weather off the chain - I'd just need a little window to apply some lubrication. But I'd be even happier with a belt drive.
Morning John, nice to hear from you again.
Tubeless wheels are not important to me. And, are you really asking me if I 'enjoyed' the puncture?!
Cheers,
Chris
All you have to do is ' lube ' the chain every 200mls. The overnight thing ( you don't have to do this ) is so the lube will dry, so a couple hours should be good. What I ' actually ' do is clean, lube, and adjust every 5-6 hundred miles or so. I hate it too, but , it's not that bad, it's just the ' thought ' of doing it!
Afternoon - thanks for commenting. I'm afraid I'm less patient than you! Even in Winter I'll run more than 200 miles a week so having to mess about with the chain really annoys me. (I have a ScotOiler, which helps, but it's not enough with salty roads.)
For me, it is 'that bad'! (I imagine it'd be better if I was 20 or 30 years younger - I certainly don't remember it hurting so much!)
Cheers,
Chris
All motorcycles should have hydraulic valve adjustment and belt drive. All l have to do is change the fluids and filter in 30 minutes in my driveway. They should all come with belt drive stock with the bike.
'They should all come with belt drive stock with the bike...' I couldn't agree more Frank!
Cheers,
Chris
Good video and content!
One tip for improvement on the video: make the sound of your voice a little louder than the sound of the bike, or lower the bike sound a bit.
Thanks for the compliment Douglas, much appreciated. Glad you liked the vid.
Thanks for pointing out the detrimental sound issue: fair enough. I'll tone down the engine sound in future.
Cheers,
Chris
Triumph Thunderbird is belt drive