12:39 That is actually not true. You can always move on to the next area without completing or even interacting with the story of the region - the only difference is that you don't get an entry permit for the border post guards, you have to pay gold instead. Not stopping you in any way shape or form from progressing to the next area if you want to. I can see where you come from when talking about the combat and the character progression, but I have to say I disagree on most points. The only thing I agree is that the starting locations for the party at the begin of combat can be a bit tricky. The character development and gearing is definetly not Tabletop RPG level of choice, but it works really well. Not to mention that it is not entirely true that classes have only one weapon type because some classes have actually two very different sets that completely change their role in combat. A Swordsman using sword&shield fills an entirely different role in the party than a swordsman using a zweihander (one is a tank, the other one is an aoe damage dealer). The amount of options is limited but the choices we have are impactfull. One thing in particular i have to disagree on big time: You bemoan the lack of a set turn oder in combat. This is in fact one of the best things they could have done. Set turn orders are dumb at best and combat breaking at worst. I have to agree on the AI moving in stupid ways though: The enemies (or allies) running through AOE effects they could easily avoid is bad. The AI attacking the nearest enemey...on that one I'm neutral. The fights can be hard enough as is, not to mention that you cannot simply revive a dead companion like in other games. Having the option to move someone in the way is nice (it's also more realistic btw - if you chase a fleeing enemy and ignore his friend trying to block you off in a real fight chances are extremely high that you will die - you cannot ignore someone with a dangerous weapon in hand like that). It also has to be said that the combat is in fact very tactical. It matters whom you move first and to where, on which enemies you focus first and which ones you engage with your tanks. All that is the quintessence of tactical combat. 13:43 That's just a matter of personal preference I guess. I like going through the menues and see of they are filled over time - that doesn't bother me one bit. Quite on the contrary actually. 16:50 And neither should they. Traps should always be concealed because that's how bear traps and the like work. If there is room for improvement it's adding a perception perk that gives the characters a chance of detecting traps that are in their way, not by making traps more visible. The highlight button in the non-combat situations could in fact be a bit more visible though.
I agree with you. this review is incredibly subjective. The AI is a legitimate complaint, but everything else felt like it just wasn't his personal preference. A perfect example is the "where's waldo" complaint, like bro, turn up the brightness on your screen if you can't see anything or toggle the highlight on and off so you just look for the images changing. It's literally not a problem. Also, did he say he only played for ten hours? That's not enough to see how much a game like this has to offer
@@seventhsuns3580 Agreed. To be fair we should acknowledge that 10 hours is enough time to get a good impression of the game though, even if it's not enough to see everything.
I am totally agree. As old player and then come back for new version update, I admit that developer did their work very well. Combat mechanic is quite enough for me and developer still announced that they will make it bigger. About set turn order, I though the game have it or not is not really important because each mechanic have the good and the bad points of it. Enemy attack the closet opponent is quite logic. For example if enemies can't reach the archer who only have 1hp left then they will attack the closet opponent. Because if you chase the archer, you will catch bait and suffer full combo from enemies. It can make the game really really bad tactic. As people who play both Battle Brothers (BB) and Wartales, my personal prefer Wartale because it has a lot to do than BB. It make me feel more realistic in Mercenary group management than BB
@@seventhsuns3580 If you have to play a game for over 10 hours to find the things you LIKE in it, then it's a shit game, at least in relation to that person, as you should enjoy many things in the game before that point. Every review is subjective. It is wild how many people in this comment thread are getting so butthurt over his opinion of this game lmao.
Yes the Battle Brothers comparison is something that cannot be understated but with Battle Brothers it is expected to lose a few men during the course of the game where this game I hope, as I have not played it, would feel like you are traveling with the Band of the Hawk like in Berserk where every character you have truly feels fleshed out. I might get this game, but what currently disappoints me is the DLC is about pirates. What was great about BB DLC is that each one was an additional part of the world that felt natural to include.
A lot of fair criticisms, with that said I still prefer this game over battle brothers because of the variety of teams that are viable. You can do weird solo archer runs with a horde of pets. You can do a lot of engage and disengage shenanigans with the bomb throwing rogues. All melee or no melee etc. The Battle Bros vanilla meta is so depressing in comparison. Devs literally watched streams and just nerfed what was popular. Oh people rolling seeds to get hunter cabins? Better nerf bows and passively nerf them by making every new monster arrow resistant. Oh you thought you could avoid the rng gamble of Chosen with whips? Enjoy the whip nerf. Oh you thought you could get around the archer nerf with the thrower hybrid? Here's a throwing weapon nerf. etc. etc. Lot of challenge runs in BBros like a robin hood style all archer runs aren't possible. I think one russian guy managed but he couldn't go full bow. He had to thrower hybrid and still used like 3 tanks. In Wartales a full archer team is not just viable but has its own playstyle of kiting, slowing, and comboing the infantry archer's overwatch with the pushing arrow of the hunter to trigger multiple attacks. Meanwhile I saw a video by a bbros creator that said that now polearms suck...lol.
There are a lot of tactical options in this game. For example, you can use the rogue's unique ability to force disengagement with engaged units which forces attacks of opportunity. There are many, many other synergies between characters and builds with multiple buffs and debuffs and weapons and positioning, so I disagree with any lack of strategy or tactics element. As far as AI goes, well, let's be honest, ALL these games have amazingly bad AI, which is why difficulty levels are all built around number and strength and HP sponginess of enemies. The game certainly has some interface issues, but you have not played this game nearly long enough to open up many of the tactical options and build varieties that create a lot of synergies to exploit.
He's not good at the game and couldn't figure out the tactics. I have about 35 hours in the game using the middle difficulty (Experienced) and I've lost ONE mercenary. I lost a few wolves before I figured out how to use them properly. There is plenty of tactical depth and options here, Mister Dirty Android just couldn't figure them out. The game isn't for him.
i agree with the overall points that the video makes. But folks should know that you can go into the menu and change the highlight color to something more noticeable, so you dont have the wheres waldo thing going on when you hit left alt
This game has similar combat to firaxis X-Com with a way more deep RPG/minigame game loop. It has nothing to do with battle brothers. The AI is braindead in combat and the RPG mechanics like steal are highly exploitable if you know what you are doing. 10h is nothing to do a in depth review... Combat starts to get fun after level 5-8 when the enemies start to get new skills and so do you. The combos and unit interactions are quite fun. After level 7 they start to get diffent target priorities, and conditions that affect how the AI works, so saying that they only attack the closest enemy is not accurate, it is a system to protect new players and the early game. The combat ramps up complexity as you go. I got more than 100h and I still have a long way until the endgame. But you are correct about the Temple fights, they are garbage because the enemies teleport from A => B if you have no vision of A. This happens in the fog and in the dark. The devs did this to make the combat turns go faster, but it messes up overwatch and a lot of other stuff specially because the torches have so little view range.
I love this type of review! Comprehensive review of the deep systems from someone who obviously has explored the game fully. Thank you and looking forward to anymore of these that come out!
You can actually check your movement and enemy's movement by hovering over the move skill. AI most of the times will attack the closest target, but not all the times. There are situations that rangers and archers will attack different targets depending on the status effects or conditions. I would prefer dots, registering in the start of the turn. Builds could have a bit more depth, or something in every level. A frustrating thing is that items on camp chest counts towards your overall weight. but has to be in your inventory to use them in crafting. The UI and tooltips needs some love, but it's not in a totally bad state (UI/UX Designer here). I get your point about the skills, but since you don't have that many skills, in 2-3 fights you can learn exactly how a skill works. Highlighting is like non existent. Traps are meant to be hidden :P
If you think about it the items being in the camp chest counting in your total weight is pretty RP and logical. It won't teleport to your next camp location. The same goes for all the camp furniture btw.
Yeah, also something Filthy mentioned about not being able to put people in reserve and stuff, you can do that via trading posts. It's far more realistic game in comparison to BB for example and I see why people get confused about some of the game mechanics. That being said it's quite unique game even tho it feels, looks or plays like some games you may experienced before. Another big part is UI which I find very appealing, it has that rusty classic oldie style where you didn't have bunch of menus and options on the screen cluttering it with info but you had to bring and search for specific things manually and I really like that. Everything else is clickable, adjustable, highlight-able and plan-able. Something that this game kinda lacks, for me at least, is opportunity or freedom to make multi classes, hybrids and off-mandatory builds (which Filthy mentioned briefly). There is no way to mix perks, to even equip non-class weapons or play with unusual perk combos (some of those combos just simply don't work at all). Something another beautiful game that I spent hundreds if not thousands of hours playing did as well kinda, but not really, it made it that if you really try and have an idea in mind you want to realize you can still kinda do it/kinda make it possible -- and that game is Wildermyth. On the other hand, not having that shapes Wartales into something unique and in-ordinary as well. Sooo, you know... The other issue I had with this game is probably the inability to speed up/automatize/quick combat enormous fights when you have to micromanage like 30+ units (even more issues come if you have a lot of battle animals and/or characters you [or game itself] consider "player characters" aka losing them ends your playthroughs/missions or you have to re-do battles).
I think a lot of your points are valid. However to me, ANY game where accuracy is a prominent mechanic that can make or break a fight is lessened in quality as a strategy game (XCOM/BB). I loved the concept of Battle Brothers. However, after a dozens of hours of play, doing research on game mechanics, and watching your guides, my ability to progress or improve in the game felt as much or more influenced by accuracy rolls/rng as it was by my skill as a player. In it's current state, Wartales isnt really challenging to a decent player at all, but the absence of accuracy as a fundamental mechanic along with more rpg elements and character building depth make it an infinitely more enjoyable game to me. Battle Brothers felt like playing chess, but your pieces have a chance to miss. Doesn't sound strategic to me. Where you can make the best possible play, and still lose.
They fixed that issue with not being able to see the damage your unit will do for different types of attacks. The biggest thing I do not like about the combat is that if your unit is hit by an enemy who is afflicted by poison/burn then it also spreads to your unit which is a complete joke.
Unlucky that Filthy didn't like this jewel... For me, it's a game I waited for years to come in full glory and it's probably if not the best then one of the best turn-based RPG games of all time for me. It's like if Battle Brothers and XCOM (those 2 being most likely in top 5 of my most played games ever) had an epic baby of awesomeness with a couple of genes from old aRPG games like Dungeon Siege. Yet besides all of that it keeps it fresh and interesting, innovative and unique (with it's own soul). I do have a lot more hours on it (with majority of hours being in early alpha and in early access in general) and I do utterly love and enjoy this genre... For me, it's definitely one of the very rare games that can manage to keep me playing it for hours without even noticing time is relentlessly passing by and making me want to play it for consecutive sleepless days just to try out this or that or fight another battle. I do find this review interesting and insightful even tho I would have to disagree on many things mentioned, so thank you Filthy for your input! Again, I'm kinda sad you didn't connect with the game and hope that you will find a game that will be able to compete with your love and enjoyment you got from BB. :)
P.S. My pros and cons would be something like (it's a long list... ...so only "read more" if you really want to know)... You have been warned, so here we go: Pros: {+++} Many secrets, hidden paths, circumventing linearity, exploits this game offers (which were left there intentionally) {+++} Beautiful medieval realistic settings/world {+++} Combat, bosses and core game mechanics (knowledge/stealing/crafting/building camp/trade posts/paths/trading/relationships etc.) {+++} Exploration, variety in regions, locations, areas and enemies, avoiding combat, resource and prisoners management {+++} Quite satisfying and joyful mini-games {+++} Repetitive value/trying out different stuff, tactics, approaches; pace of the game/value-4-price {+++} Replenishable resource locations and resources spawning on the map {++} Old school/classical/rusty non-cluttering very polished UI and font {++} Very interesting, unique and rich (sometimes bizarre xd) story and side quests {++} Sounds, music and writing {++} City of Gosenberg {+} Graphics (I'm not really into that stuff, for example I still adore and prefer pixely games) Cons: {minus 1} Inability to make hybrid builds/multi-classes/unmixable perks/some non-compatible combos within classes {minus 1} No quick combat/auto-combat button where you can just enjoy the show for a bit when fighting trivial battles or opportunity to speed up enormous late game fights (particularly I'm thinking of ones where you have to micromanage 30+ soldiers it's even worse if you have battle animals on top of that and/or characters that you or game values as "player characters" who can end or make you repeat whole battles/missions) {minus 1} Not that many regions to play with (IMHO we need a bigger map, maybe they left room for couple of big DLCs for that??) {minus 1} Optimization and lack of options in settings menu like improving highlighting brightness, major change of keybindings (hard-coded keybindings) {minus 2} Not _that_ many different weapons and armor {minus 2} Quantity of missions/contracts {minus 2} Couple more classes or more specializations are needed (reorganized perk tree with prerequisite perks but also with some passive perks) {minus 2} We also need few more beneficial professions when interacting with the in-game world and with other party members like Traders(?), Entertainers/Clowns/Mascots(?), Trainers/Combat Masters(?), Persuaders/Recruiters(?) and they need to bring back the Doctors (plus fix its bugs) {minus 2} Rolling auto saves and auto save options; quick saves and keybindings for it {minus 3} Absolutely not enough and quite often unrecognizable customization in regards to faces, voices, beards, hairs, physique/looks and the most important coloring of characters and equipment (a nice RGB color wheel/palette would be much appreciated) {minus 3} Rebalancing of stats/attributes (they need to be more impactful IMHO) and economy on lower difficulties in early game (needs to be more forgiving/less grindy) {minus 3} No or very little (here and there) voice acting and listenable tutorials
I don't own BB, but your range accuracy improves the closer you get, so your point that Wartales has that flaw is the same as in BB. Also, I can't find that BB has a undo button, so why slam Wartales for the same problems that BB has? Since I don't have either game, please correct me if I am wrong.
Got about 100 hours in this game and one of my pet peeves that you didn't mention is the Inventory system. Everything is basically all in one big bag and you have to painstakingly search for newly crafted items amongst the tons of food, Fish hooks, lock picks, armour patches and god knows what else you're carrying. There are some "sort" options that don't really help all that much and it could really benefit from something like a tabular system for armour, weapons, quest items, potions, accessories and all the random crap you can't actually use, to help find things easier. Also you to have to actually unlock a way-point marker to use on the map. I think that should be a standard feature from the get go.
WALL OF TEXT INCOMING...... idk man, most of your complaints are a bit silly IMO. Why complain about POD killing when there is an option to turn off seeing enemy turn order? You keep that option turned on just for the sake of complaining about it? Not knowing if you can kill an enemy until you have done your action? So, you want all that info given to you beforehand? You have to take into account buffs, debuffs, armor, guard, crits, player and enemy passives, etc. No undo feature? You want easy mode? If it bothers you that much you can save between actions and reload if not getting outcome you want. DOT effects irrelevant on enemies? So many times I have enemies dying to bleed and poison stacks that it saves an action that I don't have to spend to kill them directly. Also there are so many abilities that are enhanced or ONLY active if attacking an enemy with a DOT. Limited number of starting positions? It gives you lots of options on where your units can start all over the map, most games don't even give you the option for starting positions, especially this many options for starting positions. First you complain saying it's a limited number of starting positions, and then at the end of that statement you complain about having too many options of starting positions that you would just say fuck it and not care and leave them where they started. Complaining about not knowing how a skill is going to behave until you use it? What the heck are you even talking about here? A skill does exactly what it says it does. Yes things like passives and buffs and crits and enemy guard/armor/passives get factored in.... that's how these things work in like every single game. You really expect the game to show you exactly how much damage you will do? Saying you don't know the outcome Then you complain about the dark dungeons where you need torches(There is only a handful of these), and not being able to see without a torch. Holy shit man, equip some damn torches on all characters not using a 2h weapon and place them in starting locations that is tactical they can provide light for your other units and move your characters into tactical positions where they are assisted by your torch holders. Yes, a player not close to a torch can get surprised in the dark.... boohoo that's the whole point of it. They could have gave you no option for starting locations and then you have literally zero control over where your torch and light sources are. You want an "auto resolve" for fights? Jesus. Complaining about enemies attacking closest character? That's pretty common in these types of games, and they will most definitely take advantage of backstabs and the whatnot. Are you playing on the easiest setting for battles or something? Complaining about not having randomness with stat upgrades? WTF dude. You also don't have to invest in Career Paths and then your stats are most definitely random. Complaining about lack of options for classes? Each class basically has 3 options for being more defensive, offensive, or support based. Yeah, there is not 100 options... it's a slow burn game that takes a very long time to level up once you get to level 6 or so and the max level is only level 12 which easily takes over 100 hours to get to. Complaining about not enough weapon types for classes? What else should your Archer use? Your thief? Your polearm user? Most the rest of the classes have options for different weapon types that change how they function. A one hander with a shield performs differently if you give that character a 2H weapon. Then you can also equip offhand weapons and bombs. And complaining about not being able to leave an area until you finish the story for that area? WTF are you talking about!? You can leave the area any damn time you want. Pay the damn 200 gold man. Or use a damn Piton from a mountain side on the other side of the gate to skip needing a pass or paying 200 gold. At the start of the game it takes about 10 minutes to have all the resources you need(200 gold) to leave and go anywhere you want. Complaining about tougher enemies in a crypt(I assume you have to be talking about the tomb). Dude, the quest givers at Inns have the tomb missions and show the difficulty compared to your party level. Plus, you are complaining about a tomb being tougher than the enemies in the start of the area. Duh. Dude the stats on the level up screen are the same exact stats from your character screen, there is no need to juggle back and forth. You have to click a different tab to go to the skills for a different profession? Oh no! The pain! They could have put all 10 profession skills all on one page and make it a jarbled mess if you prefer. Complaining about every secret and searchable object not being highlighted or highlighted bright enough? What are you, 12? You seriously not going to see a clear basement door/hatch because it's not brightly highlighted? Use your eyes and look at your surroundings. You literally want the game to brightly highlight everything for you. Complaining about not being warned or not having brightly highligted traps on the battlefield? It's a damn trap my dude, are you serious? This is just not the game type for you. Don't bash it because it's not your type of game. You can't complain about a game because it's not like another game that you want it to be like. Sounds like you are a millenial gamer who wants everything handed to you on a silver platter. The game is also coop, not just single player. I hope they do not fix your complaints with patches. The game has already gone through years of EA, it doesn't need to be dumbed down even more for gamers like you. 10 hours is nowhere near enough time for you to give an indepth review for a game that you can easily put over 100 hours in. You can play for 100 hours and still have a long way to go and the combat keeps getting more complex and intricate as you go. You barely scratched the surface. You need to get to level 5, or preferably 8 to get to a level where you and the enemies have more complex builds and more abilities, which will take way more than 10 hours to do. At level 7 the enemy will start to get different target priorities and they will have skills and passives that effect target priority. You will get punished very badly later on in combat if you keep the mindset you have about the game.
Fricking. Thank. You. His review hurt my brain "I played a game I already knew I didn't like for ten hours and found things to complain about so I could do a review"
100% agree with all of it. So much fun stuff in this game, but the most core mechanics (combat) clash with what is arguably the most fun part, the team building (bigger team equals more drawn out and dull combats).
Didn't even know I could rotate the camera in the instances. I agree with all your points here I've been playing for about 10 hours and the amount of time I'm stuck wondering what to do or where to go. Having a quest where they're like "Go to the lake to the north" and then I get confused which direction I'm going or it's just general vaguary. Like I get not everyone wants an auto path on the screen or a way marker on the screen, but it's on the map. Making me walk a bit then hit M to make sure I'm walking in the right direction is just bleh. Want to level multiple chars after a battle? Click them individually. Give me a cycle button please. Make the highlight brighter more distinct. I hate travelling on the world map. Chars getting stuck on hills or whatever, unable to path itself and forcing me to do it, while the timer to payday clicks down. I felt like half the time I was fighting the UI to play the game. Accidentally misclick and purchase something? Well there's no undo option so you can only "sell" it back meaning you get a money penalty for a misclick. So yeah I'm kinda regretting the 25 I spent on this right now. Wish I had seen this review prior to purchase. Thanks Filthy
Great review. I had this on my list for a while, but i was waiting for the official release (i hate early access i general, i had a couple of terrible experiences with it). I also watched a couple of streamers playing it, but there was something off putting about the combat. Now i see the problem (lack of strategy, stupid AI, lack of turn order). Thanks for the time you spend on this, I think it's a pass for me on it's current state.
Maybe do what I do, torrent the game and if you find that you like it, then buy it. I really enjoy the game. I'd you don't like it then that's fine as well.
I think its a very good game. And honestly this review gives a really wrong impression of the game. Its like he says at the start, this seems to have made him be very biased.
In all honesty, myself very much enjoy the game as it is. But everyone has different tastes, by the same token I say every game should be different, to cater to different tastes. I personally dislike deep turn by turn XCOM style games that take too long for me, even though I like the actual concept. And wartales with it's more casual/relaxed approach to turn based gameplay sells it for me.
@@timm8998 the thing is, as years pass, i tend to get bored more quickly with story driven rpg games, so the review is accurate for me. It's just a matter of taste.
@@axinite2545 i enjoy a lot more the strategic combat than story driven rpg elements on games. I used to be a sucker for that kind of game when i was a kid, but now that i'm 39, my taste for games has change a lot over the years.
The best way I can compare this game is to say it is original Baulders Gate meets Dungeon Siege. I am about 45hrs as of this post and my one major concern is that later game battles will become so large it will be super tedious. Very thorough feedback and spot on in so many respect.
@@timm8998 Yeah I was figuring get enough ppl in my group to cover off the professions and call it good. Need 2 more to be a scholar and one i have not unlocked yet. Is there a better composition for end game group. Currently I have 3 tank, 2 rogues, 2 archers, 1 2h Axe weilder atm. May change it to spear not 100%.
love this filthy's first look format! ❤ its equally informative and entertaining and answers my question whether I should check out the game. great video!
I think the game is closer to xcom than BB. BB in theme but xcom in ui and tactical play. Many of your criticisms also apply to the new xcoms, and that's fine, but I don't share your criticisms. On offense, dots are less interesting on their own as opposed to setting up combos. Some issues you identify are more about a failure to explain the UI to the player. For instance, your first criticism about the UI not showing where you can go and where the enemy can go--it's similar to the new xcoms in that you can look at where the enemy can go and where your other units can go and make a judgment from that. No you can't determine where an archer can shoot after the archer moves, but that's a more nuanced point than what you suggested. Some things you suggest are really hyperbolic, like "you basically don't have any randomness with your upgrades" at 11:09. There's still a good deal of randomness and making the best choice thinking ahead, because only 3 of 6 stats are offered on nay given level up. There are several viable strategies with stat upgrades. This is just an example. Another is the suggestion that the enemy always or consistently attacks the adjacent or nearest unit. That's simply not true. I tested this myself after you said it, putting next to AOE mobs (without engaging ofc), and the aoe mob would leave the tank. There is also a function and effect to make certain targets "priority" targets for the AI (i.e. oath of cowards). There's also a whole interesting element to recruiting prisoners for certain skills that only prisoners have. Usually prisoners are mediocre, but some abilities can buff the whole team so there is a genuine strategic choice in group composition in this way. I mention this as an example of depth of which you forego anaylsis. As a new viewer, comments like these hurt your credibility and make me question your judgment about whether you are a good judge of whether I will enjoy a game. Good luck to you.
Engaged, constructive criticism is always welcome. There's an knowledge unlock called "career planning" or something similar. It allows you to add "+" or "++" to a stat on levelup for a low amount of influence. This takes all the randomness out of the stats level system. This was my first or second knowledge unlock and I never had an "off-stat" levelup again. Ever. Our run went ~15 hours long on the expert/expert and every enemy did the "attack what was in front of it". UI failures are major failures. As the player you spend countless hours in the game. Every time the UI makes your life harder or adds time to translating your thought into action, it's letting you down. Doubly so if it reports one number and then the combat result is a different number.
@@FilthyRobotGames I am well aware of career planning. You miss my point. You only can choose 3 of 6 stats. The stats are chosen at random. That is, say I want to max Strength on a character as much as possible. There is only class-weighted chance that I can upgrade strength at any given level. That is "basically" randomness in stat choice. If only you meant there is no randomness as to one or two points, sure, if you take the perk. But that wasn't your criticism. I'm not saying you should like the game, but I do think you have an obligation to be more accurate when you publish critiques online. I'm not drilling down on every point you made that I don't agree with, but I am throwing a flag on the play fpr others who come across this piece.
@@mariocerame I think you missed how career planning works. You can add stats into those that don't have the plus signs too (just cost 10 for one plus, 40 for two plus) so there's in fact no randomness in terms of what you can choose.. just the cost is different
watch this guy stream wartales. i got bored after 5mins all i see is complain this complain that, instead of enjoying the game. this is how you separate great streamers vs meeh streamers.
Thanks so much! This helped me really understand why it isn't like Battle Brothers and that was something I didn't get while watching the stream. You're a great communicator!
As always, a reasoned and precise review from you. I had the same sort of feeling after about ~20 hours of gameplay, that the game had some really interesting things to it, but combat was by and large uninteresting because it benefited so greatly from pod killing (and the AI being more artificial than intelligent). Better UI could solve a lot of pain points for a somewhat low effort (I imagine), but I have a harder time seeing a route through re-working the combat that wouldn't be very demanding.
I agree with most of this, but strongly disagree with one of the final flaws you mentioned, that it should be easier to spot things. I love the little "rooms" that the game provides, and having to do a little pixel hunting, and actually stumbling across an interactive part of the "room" brings a sense of exploration and joy to me (and it also literally takes only a few seconds, just move your mouse around a bit). It's a bit old-school, has a bit of that pen-and-paper feel, and I always like if a game doesn't hold your hand at every possible occasion. It's far better then just following a marker on a map or constantly being "pointed in the right direction". Some of the best quests in the game where the ones, where you got a map (essentially a picture of a location) and had to travel around actually finding it. And as others have pointed, traps SHOULD be hidden :D A "B" still seems fair, even if I am having more fun with it.
Focusing on next enemy will move and how they will move make tactic game. If you don't like that elements you should try real-time strategy instead of tactic turn base game.
I think you got it wrong. 10 hours is to short to see all tacticals elements like strategy table allowing to undo, change positioning etc so a part of what you said is not entirely true, though it's a real subject in this game. Another topic is taking time to think about what you do, this is by essence tactical element in my opinion. For the dot system i agree with you, there's some way's to benefit this but like you said, a good ennemi is a dead ennemi. thank's for you're review !
Wartales is just a really poor man's Battle Brothers sadly. I don't think any amount of tweaking and updates can save it, since the combat is just inherently flawed and lackluster, and the incompetent A.I is doing it no favors. The Rpg elements and world building are a relative bright spot, but since combat is the majority of the game, that as a weakness is effectively a Death Knell. I have paid attention to it for 2 years or so now, but despite putting in a 1k + hours of BB at the highest level of play, I have yet to try Wartales and am unlikely to ever play it. If it magically got an Urtuk tier of combat excellence it could be a banger.
I've become increasingly frustrated with this game the more I play it. Great job articulating the issues with it. Vital for anyone who may be coming in with expectations of another Battle Brothers.
I totally agree with all you said. Most of features in the game are so interesting but the combat system is too slow and boring, random starting spots is the most annoying and poisoner is too op they can poison all units in the first turn and let the poison kill everyone ( sometimes I wish I can deploy only 3 units in each fight to save my times ). I love most parts in this game except combat.
Thank you for an actual honest review of this game. Its wild to see how many paid reviews these guys have for their game. Almost like they are riding completely on the hype train before everyone realizes what's happening.
The game has been out for almost a year already and has very positive reviews from players on Steam so what hype train are you referring to exactly? And what is wrong with paid advertising, especially for a product that is already released and can be scrutinized by anyone? You're trying to make it sound like paid advertising automatically makes a game bad which is a very stupid way of thinking. By your reasoning you should stop buying everything from food to electronics to cars because they're using paid advertising. Good luck with that.
Paying people or using bots to leave comments with profiles that have 0 hours in game is not a very genuine marketing tactic. Paid steam review is different then paid advertising, yet paying someone to review your game and not allowing them complete freedom to critique their work isnt helping anyone (most paid reviews, if you want continued work) @@HurricaneSA
You make a few very good points about this game. The most important one is not even about this game but about the comparison of this game with another game, Battle Brothers. That is a bad comparison that hurts this game. Wartales as a tactical battle game is bad compared to Battle Brothers, but as a open world RPG it is much better. I like the game but for other reasons then Battle Brothers. Some of the other good points you make are about the difficulty and the UI. Many guides advice you to play with regional difficulty, but after several hours I don't really like that kind of difficulty. Unfortunately some UI design decisions are not good. The "show hidden elements" key (Alt) does nothing and spotting hidden features is indeed a eye test.
Good review. I don't tend to try and overthink games as gameplay and immersion are more important to me. As a fan of the origina xcom I know how the combat isn't that well done so I avoid that keeping my groups small and avoiding the tedium of having to move so many units. And I quickly went to the adaptive map because I didn't want the game stuck in a linear mode with the story line. I always find games that try to be open world but then require you to play it in a linear fashion. Also, I didn't actually know about hidden things after playing for 30 hours but I have bad vision so I see now I was missing things. I mostly enjoy making small groups of characters I care about. Your analysis did explain my confused feelings about the game. Thanks.
Region-locked difficulty was pure joy for me because of all the hidden paths and ways and exploiting core game mechanics they left for players to use, discovering secrets, being forced to avoid fights most of the time or strategically work around with a help of friendly NPCs and ability to circumvent linear progression. Finding those ways to "break a game" and then realizing it's designed with that in mind is something that makes this kind of 'small' (it is Indie after all) game so very well done! It also makes it available for players to "peek behind curtains" of what they can expect to see in the far future regardless to gameplay, different tactics, approaching and getting to know different enemy types, accessing weapons, upgrades, goods, units and what not that are planned for many, many, many hours later in the game and so on, and so forth.
What I don't understand is why they give the player an arbitrary turn ordering while the AI is locked down, it's not symmetrical. This puts a massive handicap on the AI which they get around by just throwing numbers at you. Why wouldn't you just focus down the next enemy to move.
I agree with this. And there's also other considerations that make me discount this game, not just the technical aspects of the combat, but also the visual, the pacing, and, of course, the infusion of Californian sensibilities and dev defensiveness when challenged over it.
played it a lot, still playing, and will continue playing. enjoying it. however, it gets very noticeable the more you play it on how grindy it gets for exp., and being a grind isn't the issue, it's that when a player noticed the grind that distracts from quests from missions, bounties, etc. the things the player should focus on, it starts becoming a problem. also, the first thought I had when I discovered there was a highlight feature was "There's an option to increase the brightness or change its color, cool. I like games that give that choice to players" Boy was my mind blown when I also discovered there is no option to change the highlight. that's a feature in this game that might as well NOT EXIST in its current state.
I agree with having an auto resolve, this game is very addictive but ofc not perfect. I love many things they done with the game. the combat is good, could be better. I'm not a game developer, I don't mind some of problems. I liked a better relationship between troops and also a kill counter for each fighter :) many of the problems he found annoying was fine for me, and I still enjoy it!
It is a grid based system, it's just that units don't take up 1 grid slot. Humans will take up a 3x3 grid range, essentially making the grid points/slots smaller than usual, as each slot is a 1/2 meter in height and width. What's really nice about this is it mostly eliminates the diagonal/corner issues with square based grids. It's not fully gone, but its reduced so much that it's a non-issue, and in my opinion is the best solution to a grid system I've played.
@@mmmkmkmkmable My comment was in response to his about the grid system. Nothing I said has anything to do with the rest of the game. At no point whatsoever did I say or insinuate that the game is great because of it's grid system... so what's your point?
Wartales attempts to get the Battlebrothers hype with better graphics but after playing both I still like BattleBrothers as the tactics are just superior.
Still wartales is received better. I mean, it seems like this whole comment section is full of battle brothers fans, but they are (like reviewer says) not really the same type of game. Yet you all continue the bash the game and most of the critique is pure bs imo. If you only care about combat and not about all the rpg mechanics than this is not a game for you.
the story is the worst. I mean, the LINE set in stone with the 1 option you can so often "choose" "name your price, mercanaries!" and what can't you do there? Name your price. the devs should have given us a tiny province more, 5 weapons more, some off-combat skills, etc ANYTHING but the story.
You're the first reviewer to bring up my specific seething hatred of this game. I am legally blind and I TOLD them this would be an issue when they gave me an EA copy to review and they didn't listen!
@@wei270 BS! I've been doing this for 8 years. It would not have taken much work to add an option to thicken up those highlight lines and/or to add more of them. I can tell when a thing can't be done and when the devs either don't care enough or don't want to do a thing. Devs wanted to torture our eyes. Simple as that.
I fully agree. Great evaluation of this game 👏🏻. I had fun for 80 hours in coop with a friend but the combat killed it for me at the end. So repetitive and boring after a while. This game has many mechanics but none of them are very deep or well done.
I gave-up on it fairly quickly. Balance is way too harsh for me. I can't keep-up with being many lvls higher than my enemies and they just walk through my armors and stuff like it's nothing. It's like I need to have everybody in my party at peak armor and weapons at a higher lvl every 2 hrs or so kind of thing.
Yep, on point. I got annoyed by the very same stuff he pointed out. Weird UI ... no quick combat for trash mobs ... deployment before battle is too limiting .... the highlight of stuff to collect is useless etc. I very shortly played it a year ago in EA and now for some weeks after it came out of EA. Had fun a bit and am on second map but its getting thin ....
Hits the nail on the head. I played Wartales (and BB before that), and it's alright, but the UI is frustrating (just telling your mercs apart from the enemies is a challenge by itself), the combat is repetitive (no auto-resolve for too many trash fights), skill and weapon selection are quite limited, leveling is slow. On a positive note, the story/RPG elements do help the game and it's nice to feel like your choices somewhat influenced the region. I've played about 30hrs, and I want to like the game more than I do, but it just falls a bit short. B or B- is a fair rating.
It may not be the most impactive tactics of any game out there, but the tactics do matter. I have restarted a battle where i got my butt kicked (like the one you lost two characters) and it change the outcome entirely. Of course, I was not playing hardcore. If you were playing hardcore you can't do that. It does lack some spit and polish, but I expect that they will add stuff and improve it if it sells well. I have played much better games, but I guess a B is fair for this in its current iteration. I think it was priced pretty cheap as well so I did not set bar too high in what I expected form it.
My big criticism of Wartales is that it rewards good play with boredom. The optimal tactics (as Filthy points out) are dull and repetitive, but the optimal strategies on the region locked mode are even worse. It makes sense to rinse every region you play until you have beaten every location, because there are solid benefits and no cost. But the difficulty scaling means that a region becomes woefully boring once you’re ahead of the curve. Not a good design at all, sadly.
@@Carnefice Personally, I don't enjoy it when games adaptively scale enemies to your level. I don't mind it when this is done to a limited degree (a good example would be the way party size affects enemy party size in the early game of Battle Brothers). But over the course of an entire game I find it makes combat and exploration feel bland and unfulfilling if the difficulty 'follows' me instead of being something variable I have to learn to exploit. You're right in the sense that, if I could be bothered to replay WT, I'd be better off doing it that way. But I'd rather the mode I'd actually prefer to be playing was just designed a bit better. IMHO, the optimal strategy in a strat/tactics game should not be boring, regardless of which mode you play. There are ways to prevent this from happening...
Then don't recruit 12 people. Or play region locked which wont increase the enemy party size to match your party size. Obviously the more you recruit, the more turns you will have to manage.
I am playing this game and I am struggling to enjoy it after spending so much time on battle brothers. Its the same as when I played dark souls I couldn't get into skyrim. Its not that I think the game is bad and I like the studio north guard is quailty. I'll spend more time and see if my mind opens.
Me either. I think Wartale better because I play it first then I try Battle Brothers. Because I love micro management in Mercenary Group which make me feel lack in BB. Both games are good but we are charmed by another game first.
Have about 60 hours in the game, and yeah combat being repetitive is probably why i won't be finishing the game. It's too repetitive and thoughtless. I have half of a county and then the final county left to play so I'm essentially almost done but it's starting to feel chore like. I really like some other stuff about the game, so I wonder if some other form or genre of combat would have suited the game better...I personally compare this game a lot to Mount and Blade, and while combat in Mount and Blade combat is similarly kind of brainless, it is a lot more fun and potentially skill intensive in some ways too. There's just a lot of wasted potential in Wartales.
the highlight is my biggest complain with it oh and as for the areas you can pay at the border instead of needing the free pass you get for completing the story
@@roqsteady5290yes, there are so many options to get around things in this game. This reviewer is just not good at it and couldn't figure out the tricks needed to do whatever you want in the game.
Don't pay much attention to his impressions of the game. He is mostly wrong on all accounts and he hasn't even scratched the surface on what the game really is yet.
This was a fantastic review. I really like this game and found it very fun and engaging for the first 20 hours, but after that the combat started to feel like a grind rather than a challenge. I couldn't pinpoint why that was the case, but you nailed it. I still think this game could easily become top tier if they would implement the changes that you suggested.
I love Wartales. I have over 1000 hours in it. Recently, got into battle brothers. In comparison, Wartales seems like a 3d dumbed down battle brothers. Which is kinda sad, cause I LOVE wartales.
has midnight suns been recommended to you yet? it's got in between battles BS to deal with and also console-ized UI choices on the tactics layer but on the hardest difficulty there's a great tactics game hidden in there that hits that sweet spot you mentioned of fighting on the edge of what you can handle.
This review has good points but as always the main focus is that the new generation wants an easy path for evething. I agree they can do better and more challenging combats and better A.I. But most of complains is to find easy paths, easy highlight in the secrest and so one. This is the way as the new generation wants. Make the some comparations with a lot of games that in thes past are very bruttal difficult and now it is easy to plays because the new players and generation don´t want play hard things or die in a game (take for exemple Tibia that had more than 25 years, in the past it was brutal to reach level 8 (take some days), now you can reach in 30 min). As called in my contry is the MIMIMI generation, that complain about everithing.
You can store units. And Pod Killing is turnoffable in the settings, which you mentioned. Don't use Career Plans if you like ramdomness when leveling. Things i think Wartales could add is XCOM-style hit chance, bigger camp size, armor customization and colors, black people (seriously wtf), biographies, memorial of lost soldiers, maybe a property? Make the house pretty expensive, and make it cost monitary upkeep, but give strong bonueses and unlimited storage. (Sort of like trading posts but better)
1. Hit chance. Why? This isn't XCOM, you don't need a "hit chance" for people standing right in front of you. 2. Bigger camp size, absolutely. Armor customization would be cool, cosmetic options are always good. 3. Black people??? Haha what? Why? What about Asians, Indians, Latinos? Why should any of them be in a game set in a fantasy world based on Medieval Europe? What a bizarre complaint haha
The only thing failing is your thumbnail. That red does not contrast well. Plus the random "Wartales fails" as white and everything else red. Plus that face? Everyone and putting their face on it as though it adds any value.
Shining star or the focal point of the game. Shining star would be something they exceled at the most that impressed others. Focal point was rpg not turn based. Lot of people dont understand the difference and people watching on UA-cam are a bunch of idiots sooooo yeaah. You do you.
There is a unit reserve system. Also you're not story locked in a region... if you actually explored the game you can realize that you can get out of any region using the piton tool. This is what happens when moronic streamers play a game for 10 hours and think they know everything about it and then try to compare it to other games. Sorry bro but Battle Brothers isn't that great.
Over rated game. Was expecting to get pulled into it like when playing Battle Brothers, not the case. The game is very linear with the illusion of an open world. Review nailed it pretty good.
"over rated" what? there is barely any mention about this game online lol, those who play it know about it probably because its a niche game community... chill. its a solid game for what it is.
how is it lineair lol :D You can literally get anywhere on the map without any restrictions. That has nothing to do with an opinion, you are simply spreading wrong information.
@@timm8998 If you're playing region based its linear, meaning you need to go in a path or else you can't beat the game. Thats linear look up the definition not here to teach you. So its correct info.
@@brownehawk7744 Then dont play region locked? Wtf is this kind of argument, lol. Are you trolling or something. The game has a scaling option where you can literally go anywhere on the map right from the start and you call it linear because there is another option where there is linear enemy level scaling. Even that option is not a truely linear game because it still has the same open world. And within one region you still have many different choices and orders to do things in. A linear game is a game where you are forced to go from A to B to C to D etc. This game has an open world, it is the opposite of that. What else do you actually want? An open world where all enemies are level 1? And then you get to lvl 2 and stomp the whole game?
the game has a 91% score on steam. So the game is good right? NOPE !!! It is closer to 70% But due to the new generation inexperienced players its score is higher. The game is be au ti ful . It looks just gorgeous. But it is mostly suited for inexperienced players. If an experienced strategy, rpg player wants a game with deep gameplay and story, he/she wont find it in Wartales.
I wouldn't say the score is higher due to inexperienced players, I would say the score is higher because it's appealing to a different type of player. not everyone who likes tactical games likes extremely tactical games. just like not everyone who loves RPGs really loves extreme role-playing games. this game is a middle ground for those players. still needs some improvements however.
BB suks and al things you dont like here ar not true you can deploy better and better if you have the skils like a stratagy tabele solves your depoy thing and yes its al easy combat until its not easy and men start to die lol but you can always recruit new guys that is the game and this game keeps growing too like the ship we got now and the tavern this game seems to get beter and better
12:39 That is actually not true. You can always move on to the next area without completing or even interacting with the story of the region - the only difference is that you don't get an entry permit for the border post guards, you have to pay gold instead. Not stopping you in any way shape or form from progressing to the next area if you want to.
I can see where you come from when talking about the combat and the character progression, but I have to say I disagree on most points. The only thing I agree is that the starting locations for the party at the begin of combat can be a bit tricky. The character development and gearing is definetly not Tabletop RPG level of choice, but it works really well. Not to mention that it is not entirely true that classes have only one weapon type because some classes have actually two very different sets that completely change their role in combat. A Swordsman using sword&shield fills an entirely different role in the party than a swordsman using a zweihander (one is a tank, the other one is an aoe damage dealer). The amount of options is limited but the choices we have are impactfull.
One thing in particular i have to disagree on big time: You bemoan the lack of a set turn oder in combat. This is in fact one of the best things they could have done. Set turn orders are dumb at best and combat breaking at worst.
I have to agree on the AI moving in stupid ways though: The enemies (or allies) running through AOE effects they could easily avoid is bad.
The AI attacking the nearest enemey...on that one I'm neutral. The fights can be hard enough as is, not to mention that you cannot simply revive a dead companion like in other games. Having the option to move someone in the way is nice (it's also more realistic btw - if you chase a fleeing enemy and ignore his friend trying to block you off in a real fight chances are extremely high that you will die - you cannot ignore someone with a dangerous weapon in hand like that).
It also has to be said that the combat is in fact very tactical. It matters whom you move first and to where, on which enemies you focus first and which ones you engage with your tanks. All that is the quintessence of tactical combat.
13:43 That's just a matter of personal preference I guess. I like going through the menues and see of they are filled over time - that doesn't bother me one bit. Quite on the contrary actually.
16:50 And neither should they. Traps should always be concealed because that's how bear traps and the like work. If there is room for improvement it's adding a perception perk that gives the characters a chance of detecting traps that are in their way, not by making traps more visible.
The highlight button in the non-combat situations could in fact be a bit more visible though.
I agree with you. this review is incredibly subjective. The AI is a legitimate complaint, but everything else felt like it just wasn't his personal preference. A perfect example is the "where's waldo" complaint, like bro, turn up the brightness on your screen if you can't see anything or toggle the highlight on and off so you just look for the images changing. It's literally not a problem. Also, did he say he only played for ten hours? That's not enough to see how much a game like this has to offer
@@seventhsuns3580 Agreed. To be fair we should acknowledge that 10 hours is enough time to get a good impression of the game though, even if it's not enough to see everything.
I am totally agree. As old player and then come back for new version update, I admit that developer did their work very well. Combat mechanic is quite enough for me and developer still announced that they will make it bigger. About set turn order, I though the game have it or not is not really important because each mechanic have the good and the bad points of it.
Enemy attack the closet opponent is quite logic. For example if enemies can't reach the archer who only have 1hp left then they will attack the closet opponent. Because if you chase the archer, you will catch bait and suffer full combo from enemies. It can make the game really really bad tactic.
As people who play both Battle Brothers (BB) and Wartales, my personal prefer Wartale because it has a lot to do than BB. It make me feel more realistic in Mercenary group management than BB
@@seventhsuns3580 If you have to play a game for over 10 hours to find the things you LIKE in it, then it's a shit game, at least in relation to that person, as you should enjoy many things in the game before that point.
Every review is subjective. It is wild how many people in this comment thread are getting so butthurt over his opinion of this game lmao.
I mean, I agree with a lot of these, but this is just "it's not Battle Brothers so it's bad" the review.
Yes the Battle Brothers comparison is something that cannot be understated but with Battle Brothers it is expected to lose a few men during the course of the game where this game I hope, as I have not played it, would feel like you are traveling with the Band of the Hawk like in Berserk where every character you have truly feels fleshed out.
I might get this game, but what currently disappoints me is the DLC is about pirates.
What was great about BB DLC is that each one was an additional part of the world that felt natural to include.
A lot of fair criticisms, with that said I still prefer this game over battle brothers because of the variety of teams that are viable. You can do weird solo archer runs with a horde of pets. You can do a lot of engage and disengage shenanigans with the bomb throwing rogues. All melee or no melee etc. The Battle Bros vanilla meta is so depressing in comparison. Devs literally watched streams and just nerfed what was popular. Oh people rolling seeds to get hunter cabins? Better nerf bows and passively nerf them by making every new monster arrow resistant. Oh you thought you could avoid the rng gamble of Chosen with whips? Enjoy the whip nerf. Oh you thought you could get around the archer nerf with the thrower hybrid? Here's a throwing weapon nerf. etc. etc. Lot of challenge runs in BBros like a robin hood style all archer runs aren't possible. I think one russian guy managed but he couldn't go full bow. He had to thrower hybrid and still used like 3 tanks. In Wartales a full archer team is not just viable but has its own playstyle of kiting, slowing, and comboing the infantry archer's overwatch with the pushing arrow of the hunter to trigger multiple attacks. Meanwhile I saw a video by a bbros creator that said that now polearms suck...lol.
It’s an ok game but it’s not battle brothers, idk why I never seem to get attached to the characters the way I do in BB
There are a lot of tactical options in this game. For example, you can use the rogue's unique ability to force disengagement with engaged units which forces attacks of opportunity. There are many, many other synergies between characters and builds with multiple buffs and debuffs and weapons and positioning, so I disagree with any lack of strategy or tactics element. As far as AI goes, well, let's be honest, ALL these games have amazingly bad AI, which is why difficulty levels are all built around number and strength and HP sponginess of enemies.
The game certainly has some interface issues, but you have not played this game nearly long enough to open up many of the tactical options and build varieties that create a lot of synergies to exploit.
He's not good at the game and couldn't figure out the tactics. I have about 35 hours in the game using the middle difficulty (Experienced) and I've lost ONE mercenary. I lost a few wolves before I figured out how to use them properly. There is plenty of tactical depth and options here, Mister Dirty Android just couldn't figure them out. The game isn't for him.
Great analysis - The where's Waldo is so ANNOYING. I am enjoying the game over all though, but yes it is no battle brothers.
i agree with the overall points that the video makes. But folks should know that you can go into the menu and change the highlight color to something more noticeable, so you dont have the wheres waldo thing going on when you hit left alt
Played quite a number of hours before watching this and I must say this review is really accurate.
This game has similar combat to firaxis X-Com with a way more deep RPG/minigame game loop. It has nothing to do with battle brothers. The AI is braindead in combat and the RPG mechanics like steal are highly exploitable if you know what you are doing. 10h is nothing to do a in depth review... Combat starts to get fun after level 5-8 when the enemies start to get new skills and so do you. The combos and unit interactions are quite fun. After level 7 they start to get diffent target priorities, and conditions that affect how the AI works, so saying that they only attack the closest enemy is not accurate, it is a system to protect new players and the early game. The combat ramps up complexity as you go. I got more than 100h and I still have a long way until the endgame. But you are correct about the Temple fights, they are garbage because the enemies teleport from A => B if you have no vision of A. This happens in the fog and in the dark. The devs did this to make the combat turns go faster, but it messes up overwatch and a lot of other stuff specially because the torches have so little view range.
I played for 20 hours on the hardest difficulty before my characters got to level 6. Why is so many hours of this game so boring?
I played like 80 hours. I enjoyed the game for what it was but I agree the pod killing has made me not want to replay it at all.
I love this type of review! Comprehensive review of the deep systems from someone who obviously has explored the game fully. Thank you and looking forward to anymore of these that come out!
He said he played 10 hours. That's barely scratching the surface let alone playing the game fully
When the review is done by someone who is good at this type of game
You can actually check your movement and enemy's movement by hovering over the move skill.
AI most of the times will attack the closest target, but not all the times. There are situations that rangers and archers will attack different targets depending on the status effects or conditions.
I would prefer dots, registering in the start of the turn.
Builds could have a bit more depth, or something in every level.
A frustrating thing is that items on camp chest counts towards your overall weight. but has to be in your inventory to use them in crafting.
The UI and tooltips needs some love, but it's not in a totally bad state (UI/UX Designer here).
I get your point about the skills, but since you don't have that many skills, in 2-3 fights you can learn exactly how a skill works.
Highlighting is like non existent. Traps are meant to be hidden :P
If you think about it the items being in the camp chest counting in your total weight is pretty RP and logical. It won't teleport to your next camp location. The same goes for all the camp furniture btw.
Yeah, also something Filthy mentioned about not being able to put people in reserve and stuff, you can do that via trading posts. It's far more realistic game in comparison to BB for example and I see why people get confused about some of the game mechanics. That being said it's quite unique game even tho it feels, looks or plays like some games you may experienced before. Another big part is UI which I find very appealing, it has that rusty classic oldie style where you didn't have bunch of menus and options on the screen cluttering it with info but you had to bring and search for specific things manually and I really like that. Everything else is clickable, adjustable, highlight-able and plan-able.
Something that this game kinda lacks, for me at least, is opportunity or freedom to make multi classes, hybrids and off-mandatory builds (which Filthy mentioned briefly). There is no way to mix perks, to even equip non-class weapons or play with unusual perk combos (some of those combos just simply don't work at all). Something another beautiful game that I spent hundreds if not thousands of hours playing did as well kinda, but not really, it made it that if you really try and have an idea in mind you want to realize you can still kinda do it/kinda make it possible -- and that game is Wildermyth. On the other hand, not having that shapes Wartales into something unique and in-ordinary as well. Sooo, you know...
The other issue I had with this game is probably the inability to speed up/automatize/quick combat enormous fights when you have to micromanage like 30+ units (even more issues come if you have a lot of battle animals and/or characters you [or game itself] consider "player characters" aka losing them ends your playthroughs/missions or you have to re-do battles).
I think a lot of your points are valid. However to me, ANY game where accuracy is a prominent mechanic that can make or break a fight is lessened in quality as a strategy game (XCOM/BB). I loved the concept of Battle Brothers. However, after a dozens of hours of play, doing research on game mechanics, and watching your guides, my ability to progress or improve in the game felt as much or more influenced by accuracy rolls/rng as it was by my skill as a player. In it's current state, Wartales isnt really challenging to a decent player at all, but the absence of accuracy as a fundamental mechanic along with more rpg elements and character building depth make it an infinitely more enjoyable game to me. Battle Brothers felt like playing chess, but your pieces have a chance to miss. Doesn't sound strategic to me. Where you can make the best possible play, and still lose.
They fixed that issue with not being able to see the damage your unit will do for different types of attacks. The biggest thing I do not like about the combat is that if your unit is hit by an enemy who is afflicted by poison/burn then it also spreads to your unit which is a complete joke.
Unlucky that Filthy didn't like this jewel... For me, it's a game I waited for years to come in full glory and it's probably if not the best then one of the best turn-based RPG games of all time for me. It's like if Battle Brothers and XCOM (those 2 being most likely in top 5 of my most played games ever) had an epic baby of awesomeness with a couple of genes from old aRPG games like Dungeon Siege. Yet besides all of that it keeps it fresh and interesting, innovative and unique (with it's own soul). I do have a lot more hours on it (with majority of hours being in early alpha and in early access in general) and I do utterly love and enjoy this genre... For me, it's definitely one of the very rare games that can manage to keep me playing it for hours without even noticing time is relentlessly passing by and making me want to play it for consecutive sleepless days just to try out this or that or fight another battle. I do find this review interesting and insightful even tho I would have to disagree on many things mentioned, so thank you Filthy for your input!
Again, I'm kinda sad you didn't connect with the game and hope that you will find a game that will be able to compete with your love and enjoyment you got from BB. :)
P.S. My pros and cons would be something like (it's a long list...
...so only "read more" if you really want to know)...
You have been warned, so here we go:
Pros:
{+++} Many secrets, hidden paths, circumventing linearity, exploits this game offers (which were left there intentionally)
{+++} Beautiful medieval realistic settings/world
{+++} Combat, bosses and core game mechanics (knowledge/stealing/crafting/building camp/trade posts/paths/trading/relationships etc.)
{+++} Exploration, variety in regions, locations, areas and enemies, avoiding combat, resource and prisoners management
{+++} Quite satisfying and joyful mini-games
{+++} Repetitive value/trying out different stuff, tactics, approaches; pace of the game/value-4-price
{+++} Replenishable resource locations and resources spawning on the map
{++} Old school/classical/rusty non-cluttering very polished UI and font
{++} Very interesting, unique and rich (sometimes bizarre xd) story and side quests
{++} Sounds, music and writing
{++} City of Gosenberg
{+} Graphics (I'm not really into that stuff, for example I still adore and prefer pixely games)
Cons:
{minus 1} Inability to make hybrid builds/multi-classes/unmixable perks/some non-compatible combos within classes
{minus 1} No quick combat/auto-combat button where you can just enjoy the show for a bit when fighting trivial battles or opportunity to speed up enormous late game fights (particularly I'm thinking of ones where you have to micromanage 30+ soldiers it's even worse if you have battle animals on top of that and/or characters that you or game values as "player characters" who can end or make you repeat whole battles/missions)
{minus 1} Not that many regions to play with (IMHO we need a bigger map, maybe they left room for couple of big DLCs for that??)
{minus 1} Optimization and lack of options in settings menu like improving highlighting brightness, major change of keybindings (hard-coded keybindings)
{minus 2} Not _that_ many different weapons and armor
{minus 2} Quantity of missions/contracts
{minus 2} Couple more classes or more specializations are needed (reorganized perk tree with prerequisite perks but also with some passive perks)
{minus 2} We also need few more beneficial professions when interacting with the in-game world and with other party members like Traders(?), Entertainers/Clowns/Mascots(?), Trainers/Combat Masters(?), Persuaders/Recruiters(?) and they need to bring back the Doctors (plus fix its bugs)
{minus 2} Rolling auto saves and auto save options; quick saves and keybindings for it
{minus 3} Absolutely not enough and quite often unrecognizable customization in regards to faces, voices, beards, hairs, physique/looks and the most important coloring of characters and equipment (a nice RGB color wheel/palette would be much appreciated)
{minus 3} Rebalancing of stats/attributes (they need to be more impactful IMHO) and economy on lower difficulties in early game (needs to be more forgiving/less grindy)
{minus 3} No or very little (here and there) voice acting and listenable tutorials
I don't own BB, but your range accuracy improves the closer you get, so your point that Wartales has that flaw is the same as in BB. Also, I can't find that BB has a undo button, so why slam Wartales for the same problems that BB has? Since I don't have either game, please correct me if I am wrong.
Got about 100 hours in this game and one of my pet peeves that you didn't mention is the Inventory system.
Everything is basically all in one big bag and you have to painstakingly search for newly crafted items amongst the tons of food, Fish hooks, lock picks, armour patches and god knows what else you're carrying.
There are some "sort" options that don't really help all that much and it could really benefit from something like a tabular system for armour, weapons, quest items, potions, accessories and all the random crap you can't actually use, to help find things easier.
Also you to have to actually unlock a way-point marker to use on the map. I think that should be a standard feature from the get go.
The inventory is just ok, I agree that tabs would be nice. Very much agree on the waypoints should not be an unlock. Makes no sense.
Totally agree. ah well back to Battlebrothers
Are you going to be doing a guide on the higher end fights in Battle Brothers like the Arena Tournaments and Champion Swordmasters?
WALL OF TEXT INCOMING...... idk man, most of your complaints are a bit silly IMO. Why complain about POD killing when there is an option to turn off seeing enemy turn order? You keep that option turned on just for the sake of complaining about it? Not knowing if you can kill an enemy until you have done your action? So, you want all that info given to you beforehand? You have to take into account buffs, debuffs, armor, guard, crits, player and enemy passives, etc. No undo feature? You want easy mode? If it bothers you that much you can save between actions and reload if not getting outcome you want. DOT effects irrelevant on enemies? So many times I have enemies dying to bleed and poison stacks that it saves an action that I don't have to spend to kill them directly. Also there are so many abilities that are enhanced or ONLY active if attacking an enemy with a DOT.
Limited number of starting positions? It gives you lots of options on where your units can start all over the map, most games don't even give you the option for starting positions, especially this many options for starting positions. First you complain saying it's a limited number of starting positions, and then at the end of that statement you complain about having too many options of starting positions that you would just say fuck it and not care and leave them where they started. Complaining about not knowing how a skill is going to behave until you use it? What the heck are you even talking about here? A skill does exactly what it says it does. Yes things like passives and buffs and crits and enemy guard/armor/passives get factored in.... that's how these things work in like every single game. You really expect the game to show you exactly how much damage you will do? Saying you don't know the outcome Then you complain about the dark dungeons where you need torches(There is only a handful of these), and not being able to see without a torch. Holy shit man, equip some damn torches on all characters not using a 2h weapon and place them in starting locations that is tactical they can provide light for your other units and move your characters into tactical positions where they are assisted by your torch holders. Yes, a player not close to a torch can get surprised in the dark.... boohoo that's the whole point of it. They could have gave you no option for starting locations and then you have literally zero control over where your torch and light sources are.
You want an "auto resolve" for fights? Jesus. Complaining about enemies attacking closest character? That's pretty common in these types of games, and they will most definitely take advantage of backstabs and the whatnot. Are you playing on the easiest setting for battles or something? Complaining about not having randomness with stat upgrades? WTF dude. You also don't have to invest in Career Paths and then your stats are most definitely random. Complaining about lack of options for classes? Each class basically has 3 options for being more defensive, offensive, or support based. Yeah, there is not 100 options... it's a slow burn game that takes a very long time to level up once you get to level 6 or so and the max level is only level 12 which easily takes over 100 hours to get to. Complaining about not enough weapon types for classes? What else should your Archer use? Your thief? Your polearm user? Most the rest of the classes have options for different weapon types that change how they function. A one hander with a shield performs differently if you give that character a 2H weapon. Then you can also equip offhand weapons and bombs.
And complaining about not being able to leave an area until you finish the story for that area? WTF are you talking about!? You can leave the area any damn time you want. Pay the damn 200 gold man. Or use a damn Piton from a mountain side on the other side of the gate to skip needing a pass or paying 200 gold. At the start of the game it takes about 10 minutes to have all the resources you need(200 gold) to leave and go anywhere you want. Complaining about tougher enemies in a crypt(I assume you have to be talking about the tomb). Dude, the quest givers at Inns have the tomb missions and show the difficulty compared to your party level. Plus, you are complaining about a tomb being tougher than the enemies in the start of the area. Duh.
Dude the stats on the level up screen are the same exact stats from your character screen, there is no need to juggle back and forth. You have to click a different tab to go to the skills for a different profession? Oh no! The pain! They could have put all 10 profession skills all on one page and make it a jarbled mess if you prefer. Complaining about every secret and searchable object not being highlighted or highlighted bright enough? What are you, 12? You seriously not going to see a clear basement door/hatch because it's not brightly highlighted? Use your eyes and look at your surroundings. You literally want the game to brightly highlight everything for you. Complaining about not being warned or not having brightly highligted traps on the battlefield? It's a damn trap my dude, are you serious?
This is just not the game type for you. Don't bash it because it's not your type of game. You can't complain about a game because it's not like another game that you want it to be like. Sounds like you are a millenial gamer who wants everything handed to you on a silver platter. The game is also coop, not just single player. I hope they do not fix your complaints with patches. The game has already gone through years of EA, it doesn't need to be dumbed down even more for gamers like you. 10 hours is nowhere near enough time for you to give an indepth review for a game that you can easily put over 100 hours in. You can play for 100 hours and still have a long way to go and the combat keeps getting more complex and intricate as you go. You barely scratched the surface. You need to get to level 5, or preferably 8 to get to a level where you and the enemies have more complex builds and more abilities, which will take way more than 10 hours to do. At level 7 the enemy will start to get different target priorities and they will have skills and passives that effect target priority. You will get punished very badly later on in combat if you keep the mindset you have about the game.
Fricking. Thank. You.
His review hurt my brain
"I played a game I already knew I didn't like for ten hours and found things to complain about so I could do a review"
100% agree with all of it. So much fun stuff in this game, but the most core mechanics (combat) clash with what is arguably the most fun part, the team building (bigger team equals more drawn out and dull combats).
Depends which region mode you are playing in. Region locked will not increase enemy team size.
Didn't even know I could rotate the camera in the instances. I agree with all your points here I've been playing for about 10 hours and the amount of time I'm stuck wondering what to do or where to go. Having a quest where they're like "Go to the lake to the north" and then I get confused which direction I'm going or it's just general vaguary. Like I get not everyone wants an auto path on the screen or a way marker on the screen, but it's on the map. Making me walk a bit then hit M to make sure I'm walking in the right direction is just bleh. Want to level multiple chars after a battle? Click them individually. Give me a cycle button please. Make the highlight brighter more distinct. I hate travelling on the world map. Chars getting stuck on hills or whatever, unable to path itself and forcing me to do it, while the timer to payday clicks down. I felt like half the time I was fighting the UI to play the game. Accidentally misclick and purchase something? Well there's no undo option so you can only "sell" it back meaning you get a money penalty for a misclick. So yeah I'm kinda regretting the 25 I spent on this right now. Wish I had seen this review prior to purchase. Thanks Filthy
I can see how a lot of that can be frustrating but as an enjoyer of this game I feel like I love the things you hate lmao
Great review. I had this on my list for a while, but i was waiting for the official release (i hate early access i general, i had a couple of terrible experiences with it). I also watched a couple of streamers playing it, but there was something off putting about the combat. Now i see the problem (lack of strategy, stupid AI, lack of turn order). Thanks for the time you spend on this, I think it's a pass for me on it's current state.
Maybe do what I do, torrent the game and if you find that you like it, then buy it. I really enjoy the game. I'd you don't like it then that's fine as well.
I think its a very good game. And honestly this review gives a really wrong impression of the game. Its like he says at the start, this seems to have made him be very biased.
In all honesty, myself very much enjoy the game as it is. But everyone has different tastes, by the same token I say every game should be different, to cater to different tastes. I personally dislike deep turn by turn XCOM style games that take too long for me, even though I like the actual concept. And wartales with it's more casual/relaxed approach to turn based gameplay sells it for me.
@@timm8998 the thing is, as years pass, i tend to get bored more quickly with story driven rpg games, so the review is accurate for me. It's just a matter of taste.
@@axinite2545 i enjoy a lot more the strategic combat than story driven rpg elements on games. I used to be a sucker for that kind of game when i was a kid, but now that i'm 39, my taste for games has change a lot over the years.
The best way I can compare this game is to say it is original Baulders Gate meets Dungeon Siege. I am about 45hrs as of this post and my one major concern is that later game battles will become so large it will be super tedious. Very thorough feedback and spot on in so many respect.
I would not go over 10-12 companions.
@@timm8998 Yeah I was figuring get enough ppl in my group to cover off the professions and call it good. Need 2 more to be a scholar and one i have not unlocked yet. Is there a better composition for end game group. Currently I have 3 tank, 2 rogues, 2 archers, 1 2h Axe weilder atm. May change it to spear not 100%.
I hope some studio can bring back Dungeon Siege. What a game of the old time.
@@mauricionavarro8224 yeah that would be a great nostalgia dive. I think I still have the Cd Rom of it lmao!
@@alancleveland7623 me too!!!!! Whit the expansion, Legends of Aranna
love this filthy's first look format! ❤ its equally informative and entertaining and answers my question whether I should check out the game. great video!
Great review, love how this channel is moving along
I think the game is closer to xcom than BB. BB in theme but xcom in ui and tactical play. Many of your criticisms also apply to the new xcoms, and that's fine, but I don't share your criticisms.
On offense, dots are less interesting on their own as opposed to setting up combos.
Some issues you identify are more about a failure to explain the UI to the player. For instance, your first criticism about the UI not showing where you can go and where the enemy can go--it's similar to the new xcoms in that you can look at where the enemy can go and where your other units can go and make a judgment from that. No you can't determine where an archer can shoot after the archer moves, but that's a more nuanced point than what you suggested.
Some things you suggest are really hyperbolic, like "you basically don't have any randomness with your upgrades" at 11:09. There's still a good deal of randomness and making the best choice thinking ahead, because only 3 of 6 stats are offered on nay given level up. There are several viable strategies with stat upgrades. This is just an example.
Another is the suggestion that the enemy always or consistently attacks the adjacent or nearest unit. That's simply not true. I tested this myself after you said it, putting next to AOE mobs (without engaging ofc), and the aoe mob would leave the tank. There is also a function and effect to make certain targets "priority" targets for the AI (i.e. oath of cowards).
There's also a whole interesting element to recruiting prisoners for certain skills that only prisoners have. Usually prisoners are mediocre, but some abilities can buff the whole team so there is a genuine strategic choice in group composition in this way. I mention this as an example of depth of which you forego anaylsis.
As a new viewer, comments like these hurt your credibility and make me question your judgment about whether you are a good judge of whether I will enjoy a game. Good luck to you.
Engaged, constructive criticism is always welcome.
There's an knowledge unlock called "career planning" or something similar. It allows you to add "+" or "++" to a stat on levelup for a low amount of influence. This takes all the randomness out of the stats level system. This was my first or second knowledge unlock and I never had an "off-stat" levelup again. Ever.
Our run went ~15 hours long on the expert/expert and every enemy did the "attack what was in front of it".
UI failures are major failures. As the player you spend countless hours in the game. Every time the UI makes your life harder or adds time to translating your thought into action, it's letting you down. Doubly so if it reports one number and then the combat result is a different number.
@@FilthyRobotGames I am well aware of career planning. You miss my point. You only can choose 3 of 6 stats. The stats are chosen at random. That is, say I want to max Strength on a character as much as possible. There is only class-weighted chance that I can upgrade strength at any given level. That is "basically" randomness in stat choice. If only you meant there is no randomness as to one or two points, sure, if you take the perk. But that wasn't your criticism.
I'm not saying you should like the game, but I do think you have an obligation to be more accurate when you publish critiques online. I'm not drilling down on every point you made that I don't agree with, but I am throwing a flag on the play fpr others who come across this piece.
@@mariocerame I think you missed how career planning works. You can add stats into those that don't have the plus signs too (just cost 10 for one plus, 40 for two plus) so there's in fact no randomness in terms of what you can choose.. just the cost is different
@@elmertsai1312 I am corrected on the point.
@@FilthyRobotGameswhy should stat upgrades be random in the first place? Where is that written? That sounds very much like personal preference to me.
watch this guy stream wartales. i got bored after 5mins all i see is complain this complain that, instead of enjoying the game. this is how you separate great streamers vs meeh streamers.
Yep. But that's what majority of people on social media want and it's what gets you clicks. People love to complain about everything and anything.
Thanks so much! This helped me really understand why it isn't like Battle Brothers and that was something I didn't get while watching the stream. You're a great communicator!
As always, a reasoned and precise review from you. I had the same sort of feeling after about ~20 hours of gameplay, that the game had some really interesting things to it, but combat was by and large uninteresting because it benefited so greatly from pod killing (and the AI being more artificial than intelligent). Better UI could solve a lot of pain points for a somewhat low effort (I imagine), but I have a harder time seeing a route through re-working the combat that wouldn't be very demanding.
I agree with most of this, but strongly disagree with one of the final flaws you mentioned, that it should be easier to spot things.
I love the little "rooms" that the game provides, and having to do a little pixel hunting, and actually stumbling across an interactive part of the "room" brings a sense of exploration and joy to me (and it also literally takes only a few seconds, just move your mouse around a bit). It's a bit old-school, has a bit of that pen-and-paper feel, and I always like if a game doesn't hold your hand at every possible occasion. It's far better then just following a marker on a map or constantly being "pointed in the right direction". Some of the best quests in the game where the ones, where you got a map (essentially a picture of a location) and had to travel around actually finding it.
And as others have pointed, traps SHOULD be hidden :D
A "B" still seems fair, even if I am having more fun with it.
The biggest downside to me is that the combat is so much about simply focusing on the next enemy who will move. It reduces a lot the viable options.
you can turn off the marker for next turn, so you will never see wich enemy moves next.
Turn it off so you can't see turn order then
Focusing on next enemy will move and how they will move make tactic game. If you don't like that elements you should try real-time strategy instead of tactic turn base game.
I think you got it wrong. 10 hours is to short to see all tacticals elements like strategy table allowing to undo, change positioning etc so a part of what you said is not entirely true, though it's a real subject in this game. Another topic is taking time to think about what you do, this is by essence tactical element in my opinion. For the dot system i agree with you, there's some way's to benefit this but like you said, a good ennemi is a dead ennemi. thank's for you're review !
Wartales is just a really poor man's Battle Brothers sadly. I don't think any amount of tweaking and updates can save it, since the combat is just inherently flawed and lackluster, and the incompetent A.I is doing it no favors. The Rpg elements and world building are a relative bright spot, but since combat is the majority of the game, that as a weakness is effectively a Death Knell. I have paid attention to it for 2 years or so now, but despite putting in a 1k + hours of BB at the highest level of play, I have yet to try Wartales and am unlikely to ever play it. If it magically got an Urtuk tier of combat excellence it could be a banger.
Nice review 🎉
I've become increasingly frustrated with this game the more I play it. Great job articulating the issues with it. Vital for anyone who may be coming in with expectations of another Battle Brothers.
I totally agree with all you said. Most of features in the game are so interesting but the combat system is too slow and boring, random starting spots is the most annoying and poisoner is too op they can poison all units in the first turn and let the poison kill everyone ( sometimes I wish I can deploy only 3 units in each fight to save my times ). I love most parts in this game except combat.
Shame, this game's been on my radar, seems like it could really scratch the dark fantasy itch but the combat and UI issues are definitely off-putting.
Thank you for an actual honest review of this game. Its wild to see how many paid reviews these guys have for their game. Almost like they are riding completely on the hype train before everyone realizes what's happening.
The game has been out for almost a year already and has very positive reviews from players on Steam so what hype train are you referring to exactly? And what is wrong with paid advertising, especially for a product that is already released and can be scrutinized by anyone? You're trying to make it sound like paid advertising automatically makes a game bad which is a very stupid way of thinking. By your reasoning you should stop buying everything from food to electronics to cars because they're using paid advertising. Good luck with that.
Paying people or using bots to leave comments with profiles that have 0 hours in game is not a very genuine marketing tactic. Paid steam review is different then paid advertising, yet paying someone to review your game and not allowing them complete freedom to critique their work isnt helping anyone (most paid reviews, if you want continued work) @@HurricaneSA
The games not perfect but 10 hours and you hardly scratch the surface, average review.
You make a few very good points about this game. The most important one is not even about this game but about the comparison of this game with another game, Battle Brothers. That is a bad comparison that hurts this game. Wartales as a tactical battle game is bad compared to Battle Brothers, but as a open world RPG it is much better. I like the game but for other reasons then Battle Brothers. Some of the other good points you make are about the difficulty and the UI. Many guides advice you to play with regional difficulty, but after several hours I don't really like that kind of difficulty. Unfortunately some UI design decisions are not good. The "show hidden elements" key (Alt) does nothing and spotting hidden features is indeed a eye test.
Good review. I don't tend to try and overthink games as gameplay and immersion are more important to me. As a fan of the origina xcom I know how the combat isn't that well done so I avoid that keeping my groups small and avoiding the tedium of having to move so many units. And I quickly went to the adaptive map because I didn't want the game stuck in a linear mode with the story line. I always find games that try to be open world but then require you to play it in a linear fashion. Also, I didn't actually know about hidden things after playing for 30 hours but I have bad vision so I see now I was missing things. I mostly enjoy making small groups of characters I care about. Your analysis did explain my confused feelings about the game. Thanks.
Region-locked difficulty was pure joy for me because of all the hidden paths and ways and exploiting core game mechanics they left for players to use, discovering secrets, being forced to avoid fights most of the time or strategically work around with a help of friendly NPCs and ability to circumvent linear progression. Finding those ways to "break a game" and then realizing it's designed with that in mind is something that makes this kind of 'small' (it is Indie after all) game so very well done! It also makes it available for players to "peek behind curtains" of what they can expect to see in the far future regardless to gameplay, different tactics, approaching and getting to know different enemy types, accessing weapons, upgrades, goods, units and what not that are planned for many, many, many hours later in the game and so on, and so forth.
What I don't understand is why they give the player an arbitrary turn ordering while the AI is locked down, it's not symmetrical. This puts a massive handicap on the AI which they get around by just throwing numbers at you. Why wouldn't you just focus down the next enemy to move.
you can turn off being able to see enemy turn order
@@brianbalcer that does not address the issue at all... it's like saying the way to address the issues is to just avert your eyes lol....
I agree with this. And there's also other considerations that make me discount this game, not just the technical aspects of the combat, but also the visual, the pacing, and, of course, the infusion of Californian sensibilities and dev defensiveness when challenged over it.
Great breakdown as always filthy, gonna give this one some more time/patches.
played it a lot, still playing, and will continue playing. enjoying it.
however, it gets very noticeable the more you play it on how grindy it gets for exp., and being a grind isn't the issue, it's that when a player noticed the grind that distracts from quests from missions, bounties, etc. the things the player should focus on, it starts becoming a problem.
also, the first thought I had when I discovered there was a highlight feature was "There's an option to increase the brightness or change its color, cool. I like games that give that choice to players" Boy was my mind blown when I also discovered there is no option to change the highlight. that's a feature in this game that might as well NOT EXIST in its current state.
Thanks for the review. I had similar feelings about Wartales since it became a bit popular on Twitch.
My consern is that i will have to have a lot of guys to win and i see it us getting a bit tedious, bbut i enjoy it
I agree with having an auto resolve, this game is very addictive but ofc not perfect. I love many things they done with the game. the combat is good, could be better. I'm not a game developer, I don't mind some of problems. I liked a better relationship between troops and also a kill counter for each fighter :)
many of the problems he found annoying was fine for me, and I still enjoy it!
It is a grid based system, it's just that units don't take up 1 grid slot. Humans will take up a 3x3 grid range, essentially making the grid points/slots smaller than usual, as each slot is a 1/2 meter in height and width. What's really nice about this is it mostly eliminates the diagonal/corner issues with square based grids. It's not fully gone, but its reduced so much that it's a non-issue, and in my opinion is the best solution to a grid system I've played.
Who cares about the grid system when so many other systems in this game don't work at all.
@@mmmkmkmkmable My comment was in response to his about the grid system. Nothing I said has anything to do with the rest of the game. At no point whatsoever did I say or insinuate that the game is great because of it's grid system... so what's your point?
@@mmmkmkmkmable what systems "don't work?" It's quite obvious that filthy robot and the rest of you haters are just bad at the game.
Was looking forward to hearing Filthy's take on this game.
Wartales attempts to get the Battlebrothers hype with better graphics but after playing both I still like BattleBrothers as the tactics are just superior.
Still wartales is received better. I mean, it seems like this whole comment section is full of battle brothers fans, but they are (like reviewer says) not really the same type of game. Yet you all continue the bash the game and most of the critique is pure bs imo. If you only care about combat and not about all the rpg mechanics than this is not a game for you.
the story is the worst. I mean, the LINE set in stone with the 1 option you can so often "choose"
"name your price, mercanaries!"
and what can't you do there? Name your price.
the devs should have given us a tiny province more, 5 weapons more, some off-combat skills, etc ANYTHING but the story.
Superb review. I may have miss something, but why don't you post it on your main channel ?
Main channel is reserved for longer form content, I will still be posting there.
Every battle is pretty much the same, I like battle brother’s combat system better, but the action and the valour system is pretty cool
combat is such a let down in this game. great review.
You're the first reviewer to bring up my specific seething hatred of this game. I am legally blind and I TOLD them this would be an issue when they gave me an EA copy to review and they didn't listen!
by that time it was already too late for them to complete overhaul the core game system.
@@wei270 BS! I've been doing this for 8 years. It would not have taken much work to add an option to thicken up those highlight lines and/or to add more of them. I can tell when a thing can't be done and when the devs either don't care enough or don't want to do a thing.
Devs wanted to torture our eyes. Simple as that.
Great analysis thank you Filthy
I fully agree. Great evaluation of this game 👏🏻. I had fun for 80 hours in coop with a friend but the combat killed it for me at the end. So repetitive and boring after a while. This game has many mechanics but none of them are very deep or well done.
I enjoyed the game but I totally understand your issues with it. I feel like it has some interesting elements but it could do with some improvements.
I gave-up on it fairly quickly.
Balance is way too harsh for me.
I can't keep-up with being many lvls higher than my enemies and they just walk through my armors and stuff like it's nothing.
It's like I need to have everybody in my party at peak armor and weapons at a higher lvl every 2 hrs or so kind of thing.
You're bad at the game. I can fight equal numbers of enemies one or in some cases two levels above my mercenaries and win.
Excellent review.
Yep, on point. I got annoyed by the very same stuff he pointed out. Weird UI ... no quick combat for trash mobs ... deployment before battle is too limiting .... the highlight of stuff to collect is useless etc. I very shortly played it a year ago in EA and now for some weeks after it came out of EA. Had fun a bit and am on second map but its getting thin ....
How are combat decisions not weighty ebough for you, when if you mees up you lose a character and theyre dead forever like what
Hits the nail on the head. I played Wartales (and BB before that), and it's alright, but the UI is frustrating (just telling your mercs apart from the enemies is a challenge by itself), the combat is repetitive (no auto-resolve for too many trash fights), skill and weapon selection are quite limited, leveling is slow. On a positive note, the story/RPG elements do help the game and it's nice to feel like your choices somewhat influenced the region. I've played about 30hrs, and I want to like the game more than I do, but it just falls a bit short. B or B- is a fair rating.
It may not be the most impactive tactics of any game out there, but the tactics do matter. I have restarted a battle where i got my butt kicked (like the one you lost two characters) and it change the outcome entirely. Of course, I was not playing hardcore. If you were playing hardcore you can't do that. It does lack some spit and polish, but I expect that they will add stuff and improve it if it sells well. I have played much better games, but I guess a B is fair for this in its current iteration. I think it was priced pretty cheap as well so I did not set bar too high in what I expected form it.
My big criticism of Wartales is that it rewards good play with boredom. The optimal tactics (as Filthy points out) are dull and repetitive, but the optimal strategies on the region locked mode are even worse. It makes sense to rinse every region you play until you have beaten every location, because there are solid benefits and no cost. But the difficulty scaling means that a region becomes woefully boring once you’re ahead of the curve. Not a good design at all, sadly.
So....play in adaptive mode then. You're complaining about something the devs gave you an option to change.
@@Carnefice Personally, I don't enjoy it when games adaptively scale enemies to your level. I don't mind it when this is done to a limited degree (a good example would be the way party size affects enemy party size in the early game of Battle Brothers).
But over the course of an entire game I find it makes combat and exploration feel bland and unfulfilling if the difficulty 'follows' me instead of being something variable I have to learn to exploit.
You're right in the sense that, if I could be bothered to replay WT, I'd be better off doing it that way. But I'd rather the mode I'd actually prefer to be playing was just designed a bit better. IMHO, the optimal strategy in a strat/tactics game should not be boring, regardless of which mode you play. There are ways to prevent this from happening...
After 50 hours I quit playing this game because fights are too long and tedious because I have over 12 ppl
Then don't recruit 12 people. Or play region locked which wont increase the enemy party size to match your party size. Obviously the more you recruit, the more turns you will have to manage.
@@brianbalcer "Doctor, it hurts when I do THIS!"
"Well, don't do that" lol
@@seventhsuns3580 Right lmao. How about these devs just develop a game that doesn't fail utterly at its core aspect.
I am playing this game and I am struggling to enjoy it after spending so much time on battle brothers.
Its the same as when I played dark souls I couldn't get into skyrim.
Its not that I think the game is bad and I like the studio north guard is quailty.
I'll spend more time and see if my mind opens.
Me either. I think Wartale better because I play it first then I try Battle Brothers. Because I love micro management in Mercenary Group which make me feel lack in BB.
Both games are good but we are charmed by another game first.
I don't like it. When I first played for 10 mins, I wanted to play Battle Brotherss and refunded.
Thanks to this guy, now the prediction system came out and that makes the game even more boring
Have about 60 hours in the game, and yeah combat being repetitive is probably why i won't be finishing the game. It's too repetitive and thoughtless. I have half of a county and then the final county left to play so I'm essentially almost done but it's starting to feel chore like.
I really like some other stuff about the game, so I wonder if some other form or genre of combat would have suited the game better...I personally compare this game a lot to Mount and Blade, and while combat in Mount and Blade combat is similarly kind of brainless, it is a lot more fun and potentially skill intensive in some ways too. There's just a lot of wasted potential in Wartales.
the highlight is my biggest complain with it
oh and as for the areas you can pay at the border instead of needing the free pass you get for completing the story
You can also go over the mountains and use the rope and piton to get down on the first crossing you need to make
@@roqsteady5290yes, there are so many options to get around things in this game. This reviewer is just not good at it and couldn't figure out the tricks needed to do whatever you want in the game.
I fought two times and that was enough for me.
Well i can take this of my wishlist.
Don't pay much attention to his impressions of the game. He is mostly wrong on all accounts and he hasn't even scratched the surface on what the game really is yet.
@@brianbalcer Cope more, bub.
Compared to Battle Brothers it's bad.
Best analysis world
Is nice but if you longer play this game it becomes duller :/
Its great role playing game for me, not so much tactical tho
This was a fantastic review. I really like this game and found it very fun and engaging for the first 20 hours, but after that the combat started to feel like a grind rather than a challenge. I couldn't pinpoint why that was the case, but you nailed it. I still think this game could easily become top tier if they would implement the changes that you suggested.
100% agreed
Aint no way a top down woth bobble heads and zero animation is deemed better combat than this game what a joke
Yeah, you never played Brothers before.
I love Wartales. I have over 1000 hours in it. Recently, got into battle brothers. In comparison, Wartales seems like a 3d dumbed down battle brothers. Which is kinda sad, cause I LOVE wartales.
Big fan of both games, bb is much much more tactical but wartales has itc charms😊
I can't stand the way the character models look in Battle Brothers. I can never play it because of that.
@@Carnefice At least that game doesn't have BASED stronk waman characters.
@@F_Yale damn, good point, stupid Frenchies ruining my immersion. But that's the opposite of what based means.
You definitely talk like a systems game designer from a AAA studio :p
has midnight suns been recommended to you yet? it's got in between battles BS to deal with and also console-ized UI choices on the tactics layer but on the hardest difficulty there's a great tactics game hidden in there that hits that sweet spot you mentioned of fighting on the edge of what you can handle.
This review has good points but as always the main focus is that the new generation wants an easy path for evething. I agree they can do better and more challenging combats and better A.I. But most of complains is to find easy paths, easy highlight in the secrest and so one. This is the way as the new generation wants. Make the some comparations with a lot of games that in thes past are very bruttal difficult and now it is easy to plays because the new players and generation don´t want play hard things or die in a game (take for exemple Tibia that had more than 25 years, in the past it was brutal to reach level 8 (take some days), now you can reach in 30 min). As called in my contry is the MIMIMI generation, that complain about everithing.
Pretty much
You can store units.
And Pod Killing is turnoffable in the settings, which you mentioned.
Don't use Career Plans if you like ramdomness when leveling.
Things i think Wartales could add is XCOM-style hit chance, bigger camp size, armor customization and colors, black people (seriously wtf), biographies, memorial of lost soldiers, maybe a property?
Make the house pretty expensive, and make it cost monitary upkeep, but give strong bonueses and unlimited storage. (Sort of like trading posts but better)
1. Hit chance. Why? This isn't XCOM, you don't need a "hit chance" for people standing right in front of you.
2. Bigger camp size, absolutely. Armor customization would be cool, cosmetic options are always good.
3. Black people??? Haha what? Why? What about Asians, Indians, Latinos? Why should any of them be in a game set in a fantasy world based on Medieval Europe? What a bizarre complaint haha
The only thing failing is your thumbnail. That red does not contrast well. Plus the random "Wartales fails" as white and everything else red. Plus that face? Everyone and putting their face on it as though it adds any value.
Yes.
Shining star or the focal point of the game. Shining star would be something they exceled at the most that impressed others. Focal point was rpg not turn based. Lot of people dont understand the difference and people watching on UA-cam are a bunch of idiots sooooo yeaah. You do you.
There is a unit reserve system. Also you're not story locked in a region... if you actually explored the game you can realize that you can get out of any region using the piton tool.
This is what happens when moronic streamers play a game for 10 hours and think they know everything about it and then try to compare it to other games. Sorry bro but Battle Brothers isn't that great.
Over rated game. Was expecting to get pulled into it like when playing Battle Brothers, not the case. The game is very linear with the illusion of an open world. Review nailed it pretty good.
"over rated" what?
there is barely any mention about this game online lol, those who play it know about it probably because its a niche game community... chill.
its a solid game for what it is.
@@ReadyDaddy I will not chill, I'm entitled to my opinion. So you "chill" bro. Not everyone has to agree with you.
how is it lineair lol :D You can literally get anywhere on the map without any restrictions. That has nothing to do with an opinion, you are simply spreading wrong information.
@@timm8998 If you're playing region based its linear, meaning you need to go in a path or else you can't beat the game. Thats linear look up the definition not here to teach you. So its correct info.
@@brownehawk7744 Then dont play region locked? Wtf is this kind of argument, lol. Are you trolling or something. The game has a scaling option where you can literally go anywhere on the map right from the start and you call it linear because there is another option where there is linear enemy level scaling. Even that option is not a truely linear game because it still has the same open world. And within one region you still have many different choices and orders to do things in.
A linear game is a game where you are forced to go from A to B to C to D etc. This game has an open world, it is the opposite of that.
What else do you actually want? An open world where all enemies are level 1? And then you get to lvl 2 and stomp the whole game?
I feel like this review is pretty disingenuous
I don't like the women warriors everywhere. It's supposed to be low fantasy.
Lame
The devs are Californian incels who can only enjoy female company in their digital world.
the game has a 91% score on steam. So the game is good right? NOPE !!! It is closer to 70%
But due to the new generation inexperienced players its score is higher.
The game is be au ti ful . It looks just gorgeous. But it is mostly suited for inexperienced players.
If an experienced strategy, rpg player wants a game with deep gameplay and story, he/she wont find it in Wartales.
I wouldn't say the score is higher due to inexperienced players, I would say the score is higher because it's appealing to a different type of player.
not everyone who likes tactical games likes extremely tactical games. just like not everyone who loves RPGs really loves extreme role-playing games. this game is a middle ground for those players.
still needs some improvements however.
BB suks and al things you dont like here ar not true
you can deploy better and better if you have the skils like a stratagy tabele solves your depoy thing
and yes its al easy combat
until its not easy and men start to die lol
but you can always recruit new guys that is the game
and this game keeps growing too like the ship we got now and the tavern
this game seems to get beter and better
Every battle is pretty much the same, I like battle brother’s combat system better, but wartale’s action and the valour system is pretty cool