Therapists React to PROMISING YOUNG WOMAN with guest Dr. Tracey Marks
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- Опубліковано 25 сер 2022
- How do you heal from trauma? How do you continue to live your life after traumatic things happen to you or people you love?
Licensed therapist Jonathan Decker and filmmaker Alan Seawright are joined by Dr. Tracey Marks to discuss Cassie's journey in Promising Young Woman from seeking revenge (or a distorted type of justice?) for her friend, to starting to heal, to spiraling back into revenge after feeling betrayed. They talk about how people can heal from trauma and loss, sexism and some of the other toxic cultural aspects that lead to this type of trauma, a bit of the psychology behind revenge, and Carey Mulligan's and Bo Burnham's phenomenal performances.
If you or someone you know is dealing with trauma, go to mendedlight.com for resources to help you in your healing process.
See more from Dr. Marks on her website markspsychiatry.com or her UA-cam channel / drtraceymarks
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Written by: Megan Seawright, Jonathan Decker, and Alan Seawright
Produced by: Jonathan Decker, Megan Seawright, and Alan Seawright
Edited by: Jenna Schaelling
Director of Photography: Bradley Olsen
English Transcription by: Anna Preis
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It’s not that she’s triggered by him asking her if she wants to come up to his apartment, it’s that he waited until they were on the front steps to tell her where they were; it’s underhanded that he withheld that information and then pretended to be surprised poorly. It was just another “nice guy” move. He didn’t force himself on her, but he still withheld information and then propositioned her with the added pressures of being there, sunk cost fallacy and fear of being perceived as “rude”.
it reminds me of all the guys who would put me in social situations where "technically" i could say no, but between social customs, having a public audience, or them being whiny and emotionally manipulative, i couldn't actually say "no". (e.g. public proposals, men complaining about "blue balls" until i reluctantly "consented", etc.)
accept nothing less than enthusiastic consent, because there are too many situations in which your partners are being steered and manipulated by social/emotional pressure, whether or not you realize you're doing it, and you don't know how your partners' past traumas affect their ability to assert their boundaries honestly.
My favorite life lesson from the podcast My Favorite Murder is to just "F*ck Politeness". Our self-preservation instincts are not something we have to apologize for! If the guy was truly a good guy that when you text him the next day he will apologize to you for making you uncomfortable.
I'm sad to say I've been guilty of this. I will do better, I understand now why it's so wrong and not right to do. It's not charming, it's not smooth, it's withholding information and adding pressure so you get what you want.
@@beautifulspacesllc Thank you. I'm glad you see your role and error in this and have the insight to change and be better instead of dismiss, invalidate and blame shift.
@@co7314 it is a good idea, because many people get hurt or killed because they’re afraid to be rude, but by the same token, women are also assaulted and murdered for directly telling men no.
With that understanding, saying “fuck politeness” is victim blaming because the victim chose one of two courses of action they were forced to choose between just trying to get the discomfort over as quickly as possible, without being murdered or feeling publicly humiliated.
Why criticize someone for choosing between the rock and the hard place instead of the person/society that put them between the two?
Added note for anyone interested, no man who is nice will ever have to tell you he’s a “nice guy”. His actions will tell you. If a guy feels the need to tell you, it’s always coercion. Idgaf how they try to argue against this. They’re telling you to convince you to give them more of your time rather than simply being worthy of it and leaving it up to you to want them.
Can we talk about how Cassie's parents never say to her "Hey maybe you should go to a therapist or a grief counselor?" They expect her to just move on and let it go, and I feel like that is such a realistic boomer parent response to trauma.
My thought exactly !
As a tail-end Boomer, the parental attitude was "I got it worse than you, so get over it." And yes, my mother was physically, emotionally and sexually abused while she was in foster care from the late 1920s-mid 1940s. But she watched over me like a hawk and flipped out on anyone who got weird or handsy with me.
Yep. My mom does that. I don't get it!!
Yep. My mum's response when I was talking about how traumatised I felt because of my parents relationship and my dad's abuse was "well I'm not traumatised, why should you be?"
It's taken me months to get her to understand that people react to traumatic events differently.
@@ktmggg Glad that your mom protected you vigilantly. My mom got raped as a teen, and as a consequence, when I hit pre-puberty, she started beating and abusing the bejesus out of me because she thought I was having sex (I wasn’t). I had no idea what I’d done at the time. This happened to me from 12-17, which is when I ran away from home because of the abuse. This is how she dealt with her trauma. I guess I became a surrogate for the self loathing she felt, because she probably blamed herself for it, not him.
Interesting how everyone reacts so different to the same event. Some cope better than others. Now I have to cope with this trauma. My trigger is women yelling at me, because I feel they’re about to beat me up and hurt me.
In addition to, "Don't be that guy" I'd like to say "Don't allow the people in your life to be that guy". It's hard to stand up to your friends and speak out when something feels wrong, but it is so important. If you hear a friend make a "joke" or comment that feels disrespectful or sleazy, please say something.
My sister and I were just at lunch with our two grandmas and our grandma’s sister. They started speaking disrespectfully to the server (waving their arms, snapping, and saying “hoo-hoo!” to get her attention) and my sister and I respectfully shut down that behavior quickly. We explained that they were being rude, and they didn’t quite get it, but we still spoke up. That’s just a microcosm of what we have to be comfortable doing: speaking up even when it’s against someone we don’t want to offend.
THIS
Thanks Dumbledore
@@eileensnow6153 exactly bi have to constantly remind my brother about his racists homophobic and mysoginistic behavior.
I think you still have to distinguish between a joke and something that is said seriously.
Instead of waiting until it's "too late", I feel is good every now and then to talk about this stuff and to learn how the other person feels about it.
Being ready to discuss such topics also makes it easier to call out the other one if you feel like they're overstepping a line... But this is just my experience
The difference between Alfred Molina's begging forgiveness and Bo Burnham's *demanding* forgiveness is heart-wrenching. Molina's character has been crippled with guilt, because he knows the harm he's done; harm that can never be undone. Burnham's character was "caught" and as a young doctor, all he's thinking about is his career and his reputation. In his mind, he's a "nice guy", a "promising young man", if you will-probably even considers himself a feminist-and he can't let a little lapse in judgement ruin his life. But he showed no indication of actual remorse, the way Molina's character did.
Yeah I'm pretty sure he never actually says sorry or anything apologetic. Just demands that he must be forgiven
@@louise5511 and then turns it on Cassie when she doesn't
Yeah, such a good juxtaposition. I am so impressed with this movie. And I think the judge scene needs to be there to show that he isn't making excuses like the others. He knows what his lack of action on the victims part lead to.
I always think it’s interesting how people say that you shouldn’t let a lapse of judgement ruins someone’s future, as if our future is predetermined and not moulded and changed based on a persons actions and decisions.
If anything, he seems annoyed by the inconvenience of being caught. Frustrated that this is going to mess up his day
I really admired the decision to cast actors known primarily for their comedic work, such as Bo Burnham, Chris Lowell, Adam Brody or Christopher Mintz-Plasse, as entitled "Nice Guys" who aren't as benign as they initially appear. We WANT to like them, until they do shady things, which highlights the film's message of not judging a book by its cover.
And they chose an actor who plays a lot of antagonists to play the lawyer
@@osmosisjones4912 I don't really see the point of your comment, if this is an example of "bUt WoMeN CaN AlSo Do HoRrIbLe ThInGs-"
WE KNOW! God, have you watched the movie?, not only men that participated in Nina's SA, women too by being enablers and blaming the victim, the college dean and Cassie's old "friend",
The casting of Allison Brie & Connie Britton should be discussed in this conversation too. They picked women most people generally like to play the women who can be part of the problem. We want to like them, which makes it that more difficult when their characters reveal their true colors.
The casting was absolutly key to make the scribt work. With Bos character way less people would have overlooked the early warning signs if they cast a different actor. The motherly vibe of the Dean, the harmless impression Al Monroe makes. . . Up to the Lawers casting that made one automatically afraid for casandra. . . . Pure gold
In the Director’s Commentary of Serenity, Joss Whedon said something I’ve never forgotten about casting Sarah Paulson for the end climax/reveal of the recorded message about the origins of, ‘the Reavers.’
It essentially boiled down to he needed an actor or actress that could believably go from 0-100 emotionally, and he needed the audience there with them, so as a Director he said he’d learned that whenever he needs an actor or actress to really bring the drama in a short amount of time, he skews towards hiring people who can do comedy because, “comedy is the hardest thing to do.” His thinking was if they can do that, they can hit a dramatic monologue out of the park. And when you think about it, it does make sense. Comedians are storytellers who have to be able to get the audience to emotionally follow their storyline, be in their shoes, and lead them where they want them, so that the punchline lands.
Now, obviously, that isn’t a 100% of the time, but it did make me think. If I was handed a stand-up comedy set, or an emotional monologue…even as a non-actor, I do think the emotional monologue would be easier to approach and sell.
And when someone who tends to play something straight or humorous, when they do dramatic roles it makes you stand up and notice because it feels like something we haven’t seen yet from them, when in reality, if we’ve listened to their comedy, we’ve probably followed an emotional storyline of theirs, it just had a punchline at the end to soften the blow.
Just something I thought of watching this, and why I always pay attention when comedians I like take on a dramatic role.
I love how this film turned the “what doesn’t kill you makes you stronger” around and showed just how much trauma can ruin someone’s life. I hate how many films and series make it seem like only way for women to become strong is to face abuse that hardens them. I can’t even describe how grimly satisfying I find this films portrayal of what trauma can do to you and how rarely the people responsible for it face any consequences whatsoever. Unfortunately in real life lot of the time women only get justice for the violence they have suffered after they die and this story doesn’t shy away from it.
Better than for the abuse to be played for laughs like for men or always picking men as the abuser even when in reality both genders can be abusive
Indeed. I remember a comment someone left under a clip of the ending. Something to the extent of “In the end, two women had to die for one man to face justice”. Oof, that hit hard
@@mrdee2454 Such a heartless reply. This movie chose to have a woman's perspective because in reality this happens disproportionately more to women.
Absolutely. What doesn't kill you gives you trauma. You make yourself stronger.
@@mrdee2454 This actually happened to a girl back in 2012, she was gang r@ped by the football team at a party, people recorded the assault where they defecated and urinated over her unconscious body and then left her to die on her parents doorstep. None of the men faced charges, the school let the assailants continue to pursue their education despite an open investigation that ended with a community service sentence for the young men involved in the attack. The town covered it up to avoid bad publicity and the victim ended up taking her own life and her friend who was there to witness what happened and tried to speak up was legally coerced into staying quiet until the hacker group ANONYMOUS, posted the details of the rapists online which is when the story went viral and the case reopened. You’re correct women do abuse men as well but you’re ignorant if you want to push that as the majority when stories like these are direct representations of everyday scenarios for girls/women alike.
“Rom com in the middle of all this trauma threw me off” that’s life as a woman. Some guys are these guys and some guys are so so freaking cute and honest and endearing BUT it’s hard to trust the actually good guys because there’s so many not actually good guy experiences.
EXACTLY thank you. And some guys are all sweet and cute, for months, eve for years, as long as they get what they want, then they can turn reeaal evil.
@@Nemamka exactly. Sorry you get it (honestly sorta happy more haven’t maybe there’s less of us than I thought). Hang in there though there are some actually good ones!
@@kristibunny1620 ah well I saw many agreements regarding this in some other similar comment's repleis so... anyway yeah, you're right, I found my soulmate but it's actually another woman so 😅 guess I hacked the system
@@Nemamka 👏🏼 (it’s a high five lol) yeah I’m bi, a gal was one of my “trauma in the middle of nice” and ran me off from dating gals. Anyway found a great guy for now and if he doesn’t work out then single for life lol no I’d prolly give dating gals another go (not getting married more than 3 times though lol calling it now) anyway glad you’re happy now fam 🏳️🌈
@@kristibunny1620 Hahah I'm bi too! I also had a previous girlfriend with whom I was like... do I really like women at all? Anyway it was weird and I did go back to dating guys for a hot moment but then everything turned out better than expected. Thank you and I hope you've also found the right one this time ♥ It's a blessing and a curse that bi/pan people have so many options lmao
The fact that Bo's character also didn't know how to take no for an answer is easy to ignore because it's framed like a romantic gesture we're used to seeing in movies. But she told him she didn't want to go out with him and he ignored that and continued to pressure her to go out with him. It was a nice way to subtly set up the revelation at the end that he wasn't as different from the guys she targeted as we thought he was or even as HE thought he was. The same thing with the not mentioning they were headed to his apartment until they were already there. He thinks he's a nice guy because he didn't force her to go up but the entire situation he set up was designed to pressure her to do so.
Agree and I like that it wasn't clearly black and white, it's gray and that's how life is. People who do terrible things also look like Bo and seem like "nice guys". In reality no one is truly all good or all evil and it can be hard to be discerning in the moment.
THIS
Exactly. I think it was also intentional that Emerald Fennell cast someone as genuinely charming and likable as Bo Burnham, because then that lends credibility to the murky and often red-flag-filled nature of Ryan as a character
Yes he is much more psychologically manipulating...he eeked me out from the get go when he came back to the coffee shop after she spit in his drink!! He tried to make it cute & all but really he was actually begging her to not reject him again cause he was embarrassed. I've experienced this several times (sans the spit in cup lol) and it's a huge red flag for me. Reminder that men's greatest fear is being rejected by a woman and woman's is being raped or murdered by a man. This movie was so good I'm really hoping a lot of men see it.
Reminds me of an ex....
I was SA'ed by a boyfriend, who then decided to tell all our friends "his side of the story" before I could, even though I wasn't going to tell a soul... I was basically told by our whole group of friends to forgive and forget because it would be awkward for everyone going forward. Even my dad said "well you seem okay now" when i told him. Seeing men like yourselves talk about how bad it is and feeling affected by this movie, is a therapy session to me, so thank you 💙
What the actual f***, I am so so sorry that s*** happened to you, I’m just….oh my god that is so messed up. I happy this video helped tho…Yeah, no words, I hope that it get better for u and worse for that a**hat
WHAT THE- that’s horrible
I'm so sorry this happened to you. I had a similar response by my parents and even to this day they say, well, it's your fault but you're ok now right? I was 8 when I was assaulted.
This is awful… I’m so sorry that happened to you that you received the type of responses you received. I hope you removed most of those “friends” and distanced yourself from anyone else, like your dad… because you don’t deserve that type of response. Only support.
A lot of people are idiots, what shocked me was your father's reply. 🥺
I hope you are truly healed now or that you'll be soon.
In almost every interview about the film, Fennell and Mulligan kept reiterating that it was primarily a film about grief, not the standard rape revenge film people kept expecting. While the trailer do make it seem like her bar work was a bigger element of the film than it was, some people let their expectations get ahead of them, and then were upset when the movie didn't meet those expectations. Honestly, if the film followed the standard 'Girl gets raped, then turns into a empowered badass', I would've HATED it. Rape is not empowering and this film shows that.
I feel like it was done on purpose, it wouldn't have had the range it did without the cliché trailer and I think it targeted the right audience by it too
@@zaddkiel4458 Yes, good point. It lured people to see it, almost like a slick guy lures in a vulnerable female. Then it gave the very tragic gut punch, just like real life.
A few years ago I was writing a story about a cop who happened to be a woman who would do something similar to this as part of her job in an under cover, borderline vigilante sort of way. But my character was so traumatized, it was "empowering" as what she did could for a moment rewrite what happened to her but it could never truly replace the events she had previously gone through so ultimately, she was going to get stuck in this depressing hell hole of a job for her convictions over her sanity.
I had it mapped out but it felt impossible to write because she was so edgy and miserable. Her idea was to save others from being SA'd but it would have been to the detriment of her development as a human being. I never even got through chapter one, but she still lives in my head. These stories can be cathartic, but turn the trauma into this good thing that happened to unlock this super power or at worse inspire others to try and replicate it, so it's important to show how incredibly awful this type of revenge is. Go into therapy or become a lawyer or policy maker or something, it'll be hard but it can make a difference with significantly less risk and focuses more on prevention instead of reaction.
Apologies for the long reply, your comment just resonated with me.
@@XxMusicxKelseyxX No need to apologise, cool comment x. It annoyed me when some people called the movie awful because she wasn't killing rapists, even when you watch the original trailer tht was never the case (as Fennell herself pointed out.) It's a bit concerning that they consider violence to be empowering.
@Accio Libris ✨📚 I didn’t think it was a revenge film. I thought it was a film about trauma and her pain. Revenge is about “getting even” over a perceived wrong over you. She initially went out trying to spook predatory “nice guys” into not being that way. That’s not revenge.
And at the end what the group of guys got wasn’t her revenge either, it was justice for both women. Something they should have gone through the first time around. She lost her life just to get closure from her pain and to provide her friend justice.
couple things i love:
- i love how from the start, bo's character still gives hints that he isn't all he's cracked up to be, just in his dialogue. he doesn't take a clear hint to stay away and respect boundaries (spitting in his coffee, declining his date), lightly guilts her into a friendship with him (where he'll be pining for her the entire time), offhandedly disrespects her (asks what shes doing working at a coffee shop), commands her to go on a date with him ("Have lunch with me with weekend.") and at one point even calls her a "miserable asshole" and says "Let me finish you stupid bitch" when she asks him to stop talking (in a scene that's painted affectionately!) his love for her has Always been tainted by the sexism he has been raised with.
- the scene with cassie forgiving the lawyer painting her in an almost godlike reverence? her light blue dress as she lays her hand on the back of a man kneeling at her feet, begging her for forgiveness- it's like mary passing down judgement on a sinner. that's one of the more magical (going with the revenge fantasy surrealism) scenes to me, how he can finally sleep at the grace of this woman.
i really hope to see you do perfect blue in the future!
Agree about Ryan (Bo Burnham's character) sending out a whole host of red flags and boundary issues. I didn't pick up on it until after the movie ended, perhaps due to a lifetime of Hollywood movies that perpetuate the message of "persistance turns a No into a Yes"
great points!!
@@BirgitProfessional I really like it when movies or shows do that, they use a trope to sort of bypass your real-life judgment about the thing, because it means something different in the language of film than it would in real life. Then they turn around and ask you to really look at it.
“You” is extremely skilled at this, particularly in the first season, when he’s stalking her and getting into these textbook rom-com “wacky situations” and his inner monologue tells us this is how he sees it, but we’re invited to see it for what it is, stalking
I’m glad you noticed the brilliant symbolism of the cinematography too. Not just that scene, but the name Cassandra, the other scenes where she’s “passed out” like a cross and the halos behind her head in other scenes. There’s so much intelligence and brilliant subtext in this movie, from the screenplay to the directing, acting and cinematography. We need more films like this.
Woaw you're so right about the things with Bo's character. Didn't think of it. I was conned too by the romcom idea. But you're damn right, shit!
The casting of Bo Burnham was so great because he is so cute and charming - you miss all the red flags he brings from the very beginning. He repeatedly goes to her place of work where she couldn't easily escape, and he knows where to find her. She gives him a fake number and spits in his coffee- but instead of taking that as a hint to leave her TF alone, he keeps pursuing her and 'wearing her down' until she grudgingly goes out with him. It's clear that while he's not all bad, he doesn't fully respect her or her boundaries, but that whole thing it's played off like a cute rom-com type relationship. And when he had a chance to own up to his part in what happened, he chose to protect himself and his career.
He also “playfully” called her a stupid bitch while they were in bed, which was glossed over as a harmless joke. As a non-native English speaker, I was so shocked I had to pause and replay the dialogue to make sure I heard him correctly. Then I gaslit myself with “well, not everyone is as sensitive as you are regarding respectful communication. Maybe she’s fine with it.” It reminded me of all the times I had to tell an ex to watch his language around me; even the ✌🏻harmless jokes✌🏻
I was sad about the ending, but as Alan said, it was a "right" choice. It's unrealistic she would come out alive after being surrounded by men who had raped before or just are all stronger than her. I liked the title of "Promising Young Woman" cause society always forget about her promise, her future, shadowed by the Promising Young Man
Well, even cassie herself forgot about her own promise, she was so hung up about the past she willingly and knowingly walked into a situation she knew she had almost no chance to get out of unharmed or even with her life. What the drive for vangence does to us, how it robs us our future just as much as the initial crime is an impotent point the movie makes!
There is no glory in revange
I wonder if people who were disappointed about the ending felt better in that the guy finally gets arrested at his own wedding in the end.In real life I don’t think that would’ve happened, making Cassie’s death all the more tragic. Then the movie would’ve been about grief, not vengeance.
@Accio Libris ✨📚 Thank you. This film is a woman's response to that event, and every one like it.
This seems like the "Falling Down" for women who are victimized by scumbag men. But worse.
💕💕💕
My friend HATES this movie for her dying at the end, says it's a cheap shot and for some shock factor and edginess. I think it's lost on her that her that the point is these men are so protected that she had to die to get them any consequences. That everyone can be a victim, nobody levels up to "girl boss" and is suddenly immune from men ruining her life like her friend. The power these men have over her doesn't go away, she just gained power over him in return.
There is another video on UA-cam that goes into the ending (probably several). The first draft was a bloodbath end, and they realized that this methodical woman wouldn't do that. That's a man's way, more masculine and aggressive. That's not how Cassie operates. The one that was planned was she dies. That's it. She's burnt, and that's that. The writers felt it would be realistic,. It's a terrifying real way a woman would meet her end. But that also didn't fit Cassie. She's a methodical person. She's always had backup and thought things out. She's played her chess well. So they realized she won't go in alone, in that sense. She's have done something to make sure if (when, the writers felt she knew she would die) things went bad, she'd have a last shot in the chamber. So she sends the evidence to the lawyer, who's begging for redemption, and gives him a gift of finally standing up for a woman. She knew if she was discovered, she'd be overpowered. She knew if there was any error, it'd be the end, and out in the middle of nowhere, nobody would know. These were medical professionals who knew how to handle bodies (thankfully, dumb enough to burn a corpse and pretend that would work). In a way, it's perfectly fitting that even though she meets a bad end, she's not going to let that stop her.
I think it'd realistic that cassie couldn't overpower a bunch of guys and this was something important enough for her to die for. I honesty don't see a strong ending different to this
Yeah. I know a few women who were mad at the ending. But to that I say: these people haven’t experienced trauma. At least, it seems that way.
@@yvette4948 That is not true.
It's really important for people to see that sometimes you don't get over this stuff. Sometimes the consequence for someone's "sewing their oats" are two lives irrevocably shattered.
I'm surprised you didn't talk about her body language with the attorney. How his sudden touch made her incredibly uncomfortable and she was still positioned away from him even as he cried at her feet. As a woman, I saw a woman who was deeply uncomfortable and felt like she was in a little bit of danger, EVEN THOUGH he was begging for forgiveness. I saw a man who, despite being wracked with guilt, still did not respect her boundaries and was completely unaware of how uncomfortable he was making her. Because he could have easily overpowered her in that situation. But all he was thinking about was HIS guilt and how it made HIM feel, not about how he could make things right.
THANK YOU!! When I watched this movie I started to get scared at the beginning of him at her feet, because she appeared to be scared. It threw me off and I genuinely feared for her because it seemed like he was going to hurt her by how she was acting. I haven't seen anyone else talk about this, so I was wondering if I was the only one that noticed this
"These guys get to move on and clean up their act... But the people they assault don't". That really made this make sense. Thank you for the analysis.
This made me do angry in the past im glad someone put it into words
Yeah, not all guys are heores, even the ones who like to pretend so by choosing a "heroic" career...
My 22 y-o cousin and her 2 friends got drugged at a night club the other night (someone must have put something in their drinks because they only had one), as they felt dizzy and sick, they stayed together and exited the club to call an ambulance. Not only the ambulance took 20 minutes to get there, but they were insulted by the the first responders for being "irresponsible" and "reckless", saying it was their fault what happended and they shouldn't have been drinking in the first place... They didn't believe it was the result of drugs, they thought the girls were just drunk despite my cousin repeating over and over that they only had one drink.
The drug was only confirmed after bloodtests at the hospital, and even then, the girls had to insist to get tested bc the doctors didn't believe them either... So no, not all heroes...
That was smart of your cousin and her friends to call an ambulance immediately and almost immediately get drug tested while the drugs were still in their systems. I'm glad she and her friends came out of it relatively okay.
It pisses me off how stereotypes for women have basically conditioned society to think they are stupid and irresponsible.
People like that don't deserve their licence. I'm so glad your cousin was able to get to safety
Those first responders should be fucking ashamed of themselves and choose a different career path because if that’s their response to women who need help, then they are pieces of shit, through and through. I’m so glad you’re cousin and her friends are okay.
That’s disgusting. The medical bias against women is so fucked up
“Didn’t make an impact, huh?”
That line was a lot. There was disappointment, disgust and a sense that this is what she expected (like when you expect a bad outcome and are disappointed when you’re right)
exactly. and I'm getting GOT8 flashbacks.
That line. Terrible and great.
People use the expression, "It must be nice to be right all the time." No. It isn't. It's crushing.
I took her line “I’m so sorry I didn’t go with her” to mean “I’m sorry I didn’t take my life when she did.” Because that makes everything else she does make sense. She is on a revenge crusade, it it seems clear she didn’t care if it cost her her life because she stopped living when Nina did.
It means both. Survivor's guilt fuels her self-destructive side. You can see her eyes go dead when these creeps molest her. I thought at first that she had been SAed but then I realized she was punishing herself by not only risking her life but letting herself go through some of what Nina went through.
The only reason I dont take it that way is because Nina's mom says "me too" after it and I definitely dont think she would want her to have died too. Idk, maybe cassie meant it in both ways and Nina's mom saw it in only one way
Interesing POV. This makes me realize some people love and feel more deeply than others The fact that no one acknowledged this and expected her to move on without offering a helping hand is another reason why she stayed stuck in the past. To me the response from the mom was re-traumatizing rather than necessary. She could have shown her the way out instead of leaving her alone out there.
I don't think that's what it means in context. She chose not to go to the party and thinks she would have protected her friend if she'd been there. She says that she had done that in the past. All of this is to make up for not being able to protect her friend at the time.
That’s a perfectly plausible read. I took it as her being guilty for not being at the party to protect Nina, but that’s a great theory
I remember being at a gathering where a guy was insisting that "not all." I told my story to him, then a friend told her story...and so on. There ended up being a group of girls around him talking about our experiences and he did end up getting emotional. It was really wild seeing someone's eyes get opened in real time.
Yeah, I’ve heard guys say it can’t be that common because they have never met a woman who it’s happened to.
Yes, you have, bro.
I think a lot of men had a visceral reaction to the “me too” movement because it forced them to face this for the first time.
Wow! I wish I had been there to see it! Was there just one guy listening?
@@MiroirSauvageon yeah, just one guy
@@katisawriter damn... I want to see a movie about this night. Thanks for answering
Yeah, not all men have been the actual perpetrators. But as ALL WOMEN have experienced some kind of sexual violence (show me one who wasn't groped or harassed in the street), ALL MEN are guilty of turning the blind eye.
Another detail in this movie is that everyone who had a hand in what happened to Nina keeps excusing what they did by saying "we were kids", but they were in their first or second year of med school, so they would have been 22-24 at the time this happened. Definitely old enough to know better.
Or well, no one thinks further to the logical conclusion that if he had been a kid, so was she and therefor he raped a kid. . .
I kept wanting to say, "So was Nina!" Men, especially white affluent men, are granted an extended boyhood. I remember that when Jared Kushner was accused of some impropriety a GOP politician defended him by saying he was "just a boy" who didn't know what he'd done was wrong, there are so many pesky little rules. Kushner was 39 years old the time, and had not only an MBA but a Juris Doctor degree.
@@astrinymris9953 Definitely, NOT A BOY. That was so gross. meanwhile, black and Hispanic boys in pre-teens and teens are told they are men. Even little boys told they need to man up. Such an agist, racist and sexist mentality really. BTW, I'm just letting you know that I agree with you and I am just adding commentary into your comment. Some people would assume my comment is attacking or something to that effect. The internet can be difficult to understand at times, so I am explaining myself here. Thank you for understanding. Ase.
Adult is 24 to most.
Any age is old enough to know better. You don't have the right to do whatever you want just because you're male. It's disgusting.
Casting is the most important component in this film. They cast a lot of men known for their comedic work, line Bo Burnham and Chris Lowell, that people generally like as the “Nice Guys.” They cast Allison Brie & Connie Britton, two generally well-liked women, one well-known for comedic work, as the women who end up being part of the problem. Then they cast Alfred Molina as the lawyer. One of Molina’s best known roles is that of a literal supervillain, Doc Ock. They cast Molina, someone people may typically associate with villainy, as the one man who shows any kind of remorse and humanity. Every single casting choice in this film was done with purpose to illustrate that you can never judge a book by its cover.
The casting is brilliant.
Yes, the casting was perfectly done to subvert expectations, especially subvert the tropes you see in a lot of shows. One that comes to mind is shows like The Big Bang Theory. Those guys are typically depicted as nerdy, “nice”, harmless guys. Because they’re “harmless” geeks, their actions are played for laughs, but when you really look at some of their actions and comments (especially Howard’s, how he sexually objectifies women, or the others’ actions that are a little more discreetly objectifying/entitled) it’s really not harmless. So it shows these “nice” guys for the actual predators that they can be.
It was also useful to have Molina because even when large men are being sincere, big movements and grabbing hands and knees still make you think "I'm about to be murdered right now. Do I try to run or placate him?"
@@CarrotFlowers421 You can see her pull away, and even when his face is in his hands crying, she's cried, says she forgives him, she doesn't shift closer. She stays distant and uncomfortable. Even if she has forgiven him, he remains a threat.
I, a brown woman from India, have been following your channel for a while and I LOVE Alan’s take on most things, but especially this film.
Just one thing, another reason as to why Cassie is all pastel-y and girl-y is because a) Guys often tend to go for younger women, and b) the candy-ish aesthetic is the exact opposite of the themes and plot of the film.
A common coping mechanism to deal with trauma when we're not adults yet by the time we're assaulted is also to surround ourselves and enjoy all things cute. Kawaii, cute, adorable, pastel colours, all of that stuff brings us joy because we had to grow up too early.
Well, I took the girly, pastel colors and candy-ish aesthetics to be a rebellion against the prevailing films of this genre--the "tough women who got raped and are now avenging bad-asses" movies. In those movies, there is a strong male aesthetic and male point of view--dark colors, shadows, lots of weapons, lots of fights, lots of tough posturing from the strong, avenging women. But here, we get completely into the female point of view--no fights, just getting these guys to understand how awful they are. A damaged woman who couldn't move beyond her trauma. A woman who was ultimately killed by misogyny and horrific male violence. I thought it was a very interesting way to make this film distinctly female, the use of pastels and candy-ish aesthetics almost everywhere. It reminded me of "Mean Girls" and "Bridesmaids," two heavily female movies that I LOVE.
@@TheHestya Speaking from personal experience, that is so very true. Especially if one has experienced SA at a younger age, it's almost both catching up on lost time and being comfortable enough to experience things you couldn't before.
@@Luboman411 I love those movies as well! The ideas of femininity, both aesthetic and performative, are so very interesting in all three of these films. But especially this one given that it's more of a "female rage" sorta one.
As a woman it's always incredibly healing and brings me hope to see male role models just acknowledging this. The level of relief I feel is tangible. It makes the world feel a little safer and more hopeful for all of us.
this. a million times.
We dont need men's permission to heal or resolve anything. We dont need their permission for anything. Unlearn that.
The fact you think men JUST acknowledging this, is THAT praiseworthy, is fucking tragic. FFS.
The bar for men is so fucking low.
They should be absolutely embarrassed and ashamed for what women experience and suffer through at the hands of men (not them ofc though, right... ;) ) all across the globe, and be working together, en masse, to change it. Provingggg with their *actions* how much they CLAIM to love and respect women. But they aren't..... All men benefit from the abuse most men enact on women. And they love it.
@@aurale9180 here's a wild idea: unlearn telling other people how to heal.
@@aurale9180 Good thing she feels relief then and nothing was said about permission. Also, don't command her, she doesn't need your orders. Unlearn that.
Fun Fact: Emerald Fennell asked her father in law, who is a retired police officer, how long it takes to smother someone to death, and he told her two and a half minutes. That's precisely how long the smothering scene between Cassie and Al lasts for.
And it's interesting how many people criticized the length of that because they felt it was 'too much' or 'went too far'. They miss the point. Doing it shorter would sanitize it. The point is for the scene to be uncomfortable.
I remember forgetting to breathe for a good chunk of that scene, how unsettling it was and then how detached the following scenes were
@@toxicginger9936 she also did it this way because in order to actually suffocate someone, you have to be *trying* to kill them. He's a doctor, he would know this. So if he was just trying to incapacitate her, he could have stopped well before she died. She stopped moving well before she died because she would have passed out.
Whoa. That was the scene that made me cry. I was sobbing. They really made us sit in it.
@@atinyevil1383 for what I know the window between getting someone unconscious and killing them by asphyxiation is really short. Also she could have been faking it. I know I was expecting something like that because I couldn't believe they would kill the protagonist. I am not defending the actions of the guy in any way. But reading it as he panicking somehow and with mixed emotions make an even stronger case for "this could be you, you don't need to be a monster to do monstrous things"
My first boyfriend witnessed the gang rape of our friend at 15. She passed out drug at a party. He was a huge athlete already…. Later won a football scholarship. He tried to stop the rape, and was beaten up and thrown out of the house, had to hide in the woods, and sneak home. ( The property was way out of town, isolated. Before cell phones). He was unable to have sex. He talked about how sex was horrible for women, it involved damaging them…. He couldn't…. hurt them that way. Secondary trauma can be horrible, men CAN suffer
That’s freaking horrible. I hope your friend is OK now.
He does have secondary trauma from your mutual friend being gang raped, but he also has first hand trauma from the incident because he was physically assaulted and isolated at the time.
:[
The guy aside, is your friend okay now? Gotten therapy. Cause it seems like the focus of the rape was the guy not the literal person who was you know…. Raped
His bravery in the face of that situation is remarkable. It’s sad that that response is so rare. And devastating that he was traumatized as well.
14 is too late to hear this message. I was first SAed at 12 years old, the perpetrators were the same age. It starts so much younger than anyone wants to admit. I loved this film, it was like therapy for me, and your comments about one party being allowed to move on while the other is stuck in the past were spot on. Keep doing what you’re doing.
It's a very tough call and a parent really has to gauge their kids. If they show this movie to them too soon, the movie ITSELF can be an SA.
@@jsharp3165 the movie itself can be SA!? This is infantalising nonsense and helps maintain the status quo. Children are strong, insightful and receptive. How else do you think we've managed to create such an awful society of benign predators in our boys? I'm actually so disappointed that you think a film about grief about SA is the same as sexual assault.
@@Misstressofdons I think they worded that poorly but I understand what they are trying to say. Exposing children to graphic content that they are not ready for can be very damaging. I do believe we should teach children these concepts as early as possible, but in ways that are age appropriate.
i'm sure he knows his children better than you, if he thinks 14-15 is the right age for them then it must be.
I was 8 and the perp was 12. Maybe it's too young for this movie, but that's definitely when these conversations need to start happening.
As a survivor, that movie was everything I wanted. My agressor went on to have a life, a new girlfriend, a job. I went on to have six years of therapy and continuous trauma. And I do use my voice now to uplift other survivors and to keep men accountable, and I will fight to make the little difference I can, but utlimately, it's men's responsibility to change the way they act around women. YPW really hit that nail over and over, and I loved every second of it even if I was crying the whole time 😅
I'm so sorry that happened to you I absolutely enjoyed the film
SAME GIRL. The man who sexually assaulted me gets to live his life like nothing happened and I'm stuck with years of healing and HARD emotional work. And all because I simply existed in the same space as a predator. It's so disgustingly unjust and unfair.
This movie was a really nice dose of catharsis, but also a strong reminder that I have a life to live.
You're so right.
I’m so sorry that happened to you. But I’m glad you still got something positive from watching this picture
I have so much love for you. I went through something at a psych institution in college that may not have fit the definition of SA but that, I feel, cannot be accurately described as s*xual harrassment (it was at the hands of 2 women, by the way). S*x crimes (and things that make us feel s*xually violated) happen to so many people, of all genders and gender identities, and it just cannot go on.
I took her interaction with him outside his apartment not as a backslide in her trauma but as a red flag in his behavior. It sort of felt like suddenly he pulled a move that all the men she finds at clubs pull. Oops look we're at my house!
My thought exactly !
That was my first thought. She didn't want to find out if he was That Guy too.
Also I really loved when the dude in the beginning started to get mad and she told him to calm down. it went really perfectly with the rest of the scene. This is psychological warfare at it's absolute finest. "Calm down" is a very common rapey asshole way of responding when someone says "no" and then says no again more firmly.
THANK YOU. I’m not mad about what Jono said, but it felt like a lack of understanding on their part (which is fine, he’s still learning) and the interpretation was frustrating to me cause I went no…she’s not triggered…she’s wondering if she’s misjudged him
@@sonorasgirl Yeah, I felt really strongly that scene was direct evidence of the man he was and she suddenly saw it in that action.
I softly disagree with the conclusion that Cassie's appearance is solely visualized regression. IMO her painted nails are one of the MOST important attributes of the film. [SPOILERS:] From the start there is shot after shot where her hand is held next her face, fingers splayed, intentionally showcasing the distinctive nail polish. At the end her corpse is, visually, reduced to the image of a lifeless sex doll, with the cartoonish, red-lipstick, 'O' shaped mouth & everything. But when her body is disposed of the ONLY part of her body the viewer is allowed to see is her hand with her distinctive nail polish. It immediately forces the viewer to recall those preceding shots of her face with her hand next to it, reversing her objectification by forcing the viewer to recall her, not as inanimate, or as only a body, but as a personality, as a Person. I thght abt that nail polish for /weeks/ after seeing this movie, it's so genius and haunting.
I also agree with you and I found it funny that it was the cineast to comment on that and not the therapist or the shrink. IMO the pastel colours and the feminine dresses was a way to showcast Cassie as still a beautiful female, without the sexual component. She wanted to still feel pretty without taking the risk of being objectified. Although I can see how a couple of midwesterners didn't get that, since american children are sexuallized from a very young age and it's even legal to marry children in many of those states.
It may also hint at her being identified and the men caught since it's such a distinctive feature of hers.
I love so many of the subtleties of the movie! (Spoilers ahead!)
1. The casting of the likable actors with a background in comedy for most of the male roles, showing that no one is "safe" to be around.
2. Nina being called Nina. Because in Spanish that name more or less means "(little) girl" and she could have been any of us.
3. Cassandra in mythology is the prophet who is never believed.
4. The pen color in the notebook where she marks her night's out depends on how the guy's acted and what lesson she taught them.
5. The director asked a family member in law enforcement how long it would take to suffocate someone and they said 2.5 minutes, which is why that's roughly the amount of time the camera holds on that specific scene.
I'm sure there's more, but those were the things I remembered.
Cassandra is not only a prophet, but she's cursed when she continuously resists Apollo's sexual advances. So that name is very appropriate for the protagonist of this movie.
Actually niÑa is the term for little girl in Spanish
The cutesy hair, clothes, and nails are also a manipulation tactic for her target male demographic. They are more likely to take advantage of someone who appears to be the sweet innocent attractive young woman. So when she is in her batman persona it is like a costume for what she is trying to achieve. It makes her playing dumb or drunk more believable, and makes her turn around into a sober confident woman more shocking to them. The scene where he directed them to his apartment too made my stomach sink. This whole movie is brilliant and the attention to detail is out of this world with just how multilayered everything is.
I think also it’s meant to show how she’s still trapped in the time of her trauma. Because she’s constantly reliving the event, she feels permanently like she’s in her late-teens or early-twenties, an age where you’re still quite childish and naive
Being raped is the single worst thing I can imagine happening to me, not just because of the assault itself but because of how society treats women who have been raped. And because it's so common in the US, especially in the military and in college, we as women live in such a state that every decision we make is influenced by trying to avoid rape.
MEN DON'T CARE WHEN WOMEN SAY NO. MEN NEED TO TELL OTHER MEN NO.
So true...
Yup, this is exactly how I live my life, yet it still happened to me. My best friend of 5 years... in my sleep. I went to the police... twice. Nothing happened. Every decision was weighed by that fear, I missed out on a lot of probably great opportunities to make and be with friends, but the risk is just too high. No matter how cautious, it still happened.
Now here I am, alone, no friends. This has rotted me from the inside out. I have broken down so far all my relationships crumble because SA is the only thing my brain can talk about anymore. Cant keep a boyfriend because they see me as dirty, sl*tty, a lair, like I am going to lie and go to the police about them just because I explain what happened to me. I don't want to have sex with someone without explaining I have vaginismus(a medical condition as a result of abuse), so we have to be careful, or they will damage me and trigger a PTSD episode. I just say if they don't intend to hurt me, then there is nothing to fear, yet... I constantly have to tell them I won't lie to the police.
They see the scars on my legs (self abuse) and think I'm a crazy b*tch... So far, every guy I have dated has some form of this bias. All I ask is to be reassured I'm not being used as a hole, not to be treated as a hole, yet it keeps happening, and I am just an agoraphobic internet hermit now, too afraid to even interact with anyone.
I can't help but hate this female body I was cursed with, not only for how it's been used against my will, but the fact I have a severe parasite phobia on top of being able to get pregnant in a world that sees me as breeding stock. I would rather jump if I got pregnant, yet they deny me sterilization over and over and over again. There is nothing to love about this body of mine. I wish I was born a man...
@@redfox.689 I am so sorry this happened to you. You are not alone in these terrible experiences - but it feels different for everybody and it feels like you are alone. Therapy didn't help me AT ALL with my SA-experience (for many people therapy does help, but i had a terrible therapist considering this specific topic), but it did help me with other aspects and gave me the ability to work on my self worth and have more control and agency over my own life. I used to hate my body, too and wished I was a man. Many years later and through 2 bouts of therapy, I do not wish this anymore. I also realized how horrible male culture can be.
Again, I am sorry you went through this.
@@redfox.689 Any man that would be suspicious of you or denigrate you because of past trauma is trash. You deserve so much better than that. I hate how men make us hate ourselves instead of focusing our anger on them where it belongs. I wish we could all be born into communities of women - to be free to grow and thrive without fear. Female bodies aren't a curse, they are amazing and powerful. It's our culture and the way it treats female bodies that is wrong. I never reported or talked to anyone. It's taken decades for me to come to terms and start healing. If I'd had someone supportive to talk to it wouldn't have taken so long. I believe you can get to a place where you'll find some peace within yourself and I wish you well.
@@janleonard3101I am so sorry, you deserve better and I truly wish you well
I remember when a woman started killing the bus drivers who raped women in Juarez. As an SA abuse survivor I did not choose revenge but I can't lie. Part of me was happy that someone chose revenge.
Revenge is right on the shelf behind justice. If people can't get justice, they'll take revenge.
@@SinHurr I didn't get justice. I thought about revenge but I don't feel like spending my life in prison.
The police don't do anything, so I can't blame the attempt. What other option is there?
@@redfox.689 Police departments who do their job well definitely cut down on vigilantism.
@@Catlily5 There's also a box of self-healing in a nearby isle I guess but few people think to go look there.
Look it's not my best metaphor but I'm trying. Grocery stores are hard.
This film states one and only truth about rape. Rape is not empowering, it's destroying, devastating and life-shattering.
This episode made me want to watch this movie, so I did. I had avoided it because I'm a survivor of sexual violence, so I was worried that it would be triggering. It actually turned out not to be for me. In fact, it's been empowering in a way I wouldn't have expected.
I loved and appreciated that the movie never explicitly showed what happened to Nina. So many times in media, traumatic incidents are played up to the point of feeling exploitive. I appreciated that we, the viewers, never invaded Nina's privacy by watching her worst moment.
I also loved that the movie very blatantly states what behaviors are unacceptable and why. I also got a strong message to survivors - you need to find a way to heal and let go of what happened to you, otherwise it will be the death of you. It's hard, but letting go and living your best, healthiest, and happiest life is the best revenge against your attacker. They don't get to take any more of your life. They don't get to cause any more pain.
I'm glad you got to see this movie. I also was afraid it would be triggering but I wound up feeling more validated than anything else.
I've put off watching this movie for so long for this exact reason. Thanks for such a reassuring comment. I think I'll give it a go soon 😄
Yes! I always wonder why we need to see the entire assault in media. Is it so that we justify the trauma like, it is violent enough she has a right to be affected by it or is it even darker like morbid curiosity or even selling sex even if it is an assault
@@stephaniemichaud6099It's everything that you written, it's post with the purpose of shocking people but also with the purpose of people that enjoy violent no consensual sex.
This is also why I love Mad Max: Fury Road. Just seeing the girls cutting off these massive, brutal chastity belts tells us everything we need to know about their history; we don't need to see it to understand what happened. And the story is not about the violence done to them, but about their fight for their freedom. I'm glad more filmmakers are being thoughtful about how to portray the aftermath of an assault without putting an actress in the job of recreating it.
The feeling that, as a woman, I'm expected to cater for the sexual needs of heterosexual men is *exhausting*. It's not even just dating sites or in social situations, it's everywhere. Virtually every single app has men making moves on women (I can only speak from my point of view, it may happen to others too).
I've played games online to help with my anxiety, and had sexual or abusive remarks from men. Even a drawing game had men drawing d**** and coming onto me in the comments. It's hard to even perceive how pervasive it is if you're not on the receiving end of it. It's honestly so tiring. And if I mention it to people, they just laugh or shrug, because men will be men.
Edit: I also experimented with presenting myself as male online, with a male avatar and a number instead of a name. NO ABUSE. It IS a gender issue. I highly recommend people try it, it's eye-opening.
I had to stop playing words with friends!!!
@@bitchenboutique6953 It's ridiculous, isn't it? I have a chronic illness and online friends are really helpful, but I have to turn off commenting on most apps. It really does affect every aspect of life.
It most definitely is a gendered issue, while sexual abuse of men does exist, often gets played for laughs which is utterly disgusting, that does not change how disproportionately more likely it is to encounter harresment as a female, compared to a male
@@arianewinter4266 I hate seeing abuse of men played for laughs. It must be so triggering for male victims, who often find it hard to speak about it anyway. But I agree, I think women get it a lot more.
@@Tilly236 they are both issues that exist and are terrible, but they exist seperatly from each other. Critiquing one is not downplaying the other or aknowlaging one does not make the other any less bad. So yeah, using sexual assault against men as an excuse to portray female survivors as discredited is an disgusting practise as is the opposite. . . .
It is fucked up that being female alone is seen as a reason to feel entitled to our favors
And there's already a man in the comments crying about the fact we're not talking about horrible things women do. I'm so sick and tired of women being silenced and talked over every.single.time any women's issues are being raised. I can bet everything I have he's also convinced he's a "nice guy".
For real. It’s like going to someone making a video about the dangers of dehydration, only for someone to burst into the comments like “But you don’t care about hunger, right?”
@@ursaminor9780 or being like "I DRINK enough water, why is this video acting as if we all don't? we're not all dehydrated"
Funny enough, the movie even addresses that it is not a male only problem and even with the sexual assault of women, other women often play a role to make it worse as enablers being just as much part of the system.
@@arianewinter4266 Right! These dudes never do any research or even truly care about men's SA or they'd know that multiple women are also villainized in this movie, they just bring it up as a tool to disrupt conversation about women's SA because it hurts their wittle feewings
I just don't understand the mentality. Listening and being empathetic isn't going to kill them. Understanding the issues hand will help them be a better person.
When he gets confronted, instead of saying "I'm sorry," or "that was wrong, I should have done something" he says "you have to forgive me."
She says no because he expresses no guilt. He doesn't take responsibility. He doesn't attempt to make things right. He just demands to be forgiven.
The lawyer was the only one who understood that covering the past up does not make it go away, and comprehended the moral weight of pretending it never happened. Bo's character just wants to forget about it, not acknowledge it. And Cassie cannot do that, cannot let him pretend he was never there and never saw it. He could have acknowledged his role and begun to confront his own responsibility, but instead he rejects all that, and gets defensive. She trusted him, and then he showed her that he did not learn and did not care about the thing she cared about most. She turns it to fuel, but it's like grieving all over again, for this future she almost thought she wanted.
I love the scene where she goes to visit the lawyer. It made me look at the main character in a whole other light. Like, before that scene, she just seemed like she was out for revenge, and that was it. After that scene, I realized that she didn't really want revenge, exactly. She wanted the people involved in her friend's death to recognize what they did, acknowledge that they hurt someone, and actually apologize for not stopping it when they had the chance. Made me look back at the things she did to everyone else that was involved, and think about how, yeah, she gave them all a chance to recognize the situation and apologize for it. It was only after they all doubled down on their choices, denied any wrongdoing, or blamed the victim, that she acted out her revenge against them.
Yes, it made me wonder if she would have tried carving something into Al's abdomen if he'd apologized like his former lawyer.
One thing I love about this channel is not only do we learn therapy and get more insight into movies but we also get movie recommendations. I have seen a lot of movies just because CinemaTherapy talked about them.
OMG ME TOO
except for me it was books, specifically little women (:
but all the movies they talk about make me want to watch them as well
Same here. So many I haven’t seen
That's awesome :)
The ACCUSED of the 2020s.
Mine is the opposite. I couldn’t watch this movie due to triggers but love the social context and writing, so this channel provides a barrier for me to know more about it and see clips from the movie.
I loved how someone mentioned somewhere how extremely powerful was casting choice to cast good guys like actors who are either nice in real life or play nice guys on screen to act like villains so we basically are thrown off by how they are a hidden threat, makes you see that it is everywhere and not only "sketchy" guys can be a problem
Exactly. We know it's, 'not all men'. But how do we tell the difference?
@@Tilly236 exactly this, many gus take it as an "all guys" accusation, while it really is not, the terrible thing is, that one can never tell. It is not everyone, but it could be anyone
@@Tilly236 exactly. One analogy I heard was that women need to treat men like guns. You never know which ones are loaded so you treat them all like they are.
@@ranga1cat Wow, I've never heard that before. But it rings true. It's sad though.
Yeah! The idea was to distance the r*pists from the image of a dark evil figure separate from society and depict them as not only just anybody but people who may come off as likeable and nice. A friend of mine said, “I know a lot of r*pe victims yet I don’t ‘know’ any r*pists but it’s impossible for people to become victims if the perpetrators don’t exist.”
The statistic for how many women have been sexually assaulted means that everyone knows at least one. If you don't know one it's because she isn't comfortable sharing that with you. 400,000 rape kits go untested primarily because police don't investigate. 1 at least out of every 5 women experience sexual assault, the majority occurring during women's college age years. Thank you for covering a difficult subject with such courtesy. Dr. Marks was a superb guest and I hope she will be back again.
I'm unsure what you mean; please can you clarify?
@@jeryth057 bruh.
@@jeryth057 which part lost you?
@@jeryth057 can you not read?
actually its closer to 50/50 in abuse.
Men almost never report the abuse because its "Youre a guy you cant be abused ESPECIALLY BY A WOMAN"
21:12 I get the point of what's being said, but I read somewhere that the decision to portray Cassie like this was conscious. She's embracing femininity and being herself, in the sense that often society views makeup, accessories etc as vain indulgence.
The entire film has a colourful pallette to show the idea that this is also a part of female experience. Granted, not every woman is like that, but some are and they shouldn't be shamed for liking it.
Yes, exactly this! Conscious choices by Emerald Fennell!
Same with the music!
What is more terrifying for me as a woman, is that all of this is not going to change ANYTIME soon.
I had a male friend who posted on his social media about being the “Nice Guy” and helping a women out of a questionable situation and driving her home then complained that he “didn’t even get a kiss” for his trouble. That is what is at the heart of this story. I do have hope that current 20 somethings (I’m more than double that) lean more towards calling out this behavior but the attitude still exists that women are objects to service men (check out any “Alpha Male” TikTok stitch).
Society is becoming aware of this, but nothing is gonna change, it gonna always be people that stick to "boys will be boys". The red pill and manosphere moviments says that these kind of movies is trying to emasculating men.
As someone who has dealt with sexual assault, please don’t let other people down play it for you. It is a big deal to have someone lay a hand on you without permission and you can talk about it and confront someone. It doesn’t matter if it ruins the party, the person who doesn’t hear the word no ruins the party.
This feels like it is SUCH a pernicious and widespread issue in our societies!!😣 If you complain about sexist treatment at work, then you're the problem employee... If you call people out on douchey 'humour', then you "can't take a joke"... If you campaign for equal treatment then you're an 'SJW' or 'feminazi'... If you criticise relatives for doing creepy stuff, then you must be overreacting. People are far to quick to blame survivors or turn on whistle-blower, rather than holding perpetrators to account - esp. if the latter are in any sort of position of power.
Problematic behaviours are far too often downplayed by people who should know better, just because they don't want to rock the boat. Or even more awfully, perhaps they don't feel safe themselves to speak up...? As a collective, I believe we can all do way better - and we need to, if we want this constant damage to stop.
The director did such a good job. Even down to the long suffocation scene (being that it does truly take that long to suffocate someone) and how they wanted the watchers to realize Al had that whole time to stop and he did not.
Bo also being the typical nice guy but also not taking no for an answer when Cassie was VERY straightforward. And what kills me is that he had one last chance to redeem himself when Cassie went missing and he did nothing.
This movie had me in tears all throughout. CSA survivor, dealt with a 5 year traumatic relationship.
Several years ago when I returned to my dorm from a convention,. My dorm room was distoryed. The mattress blow up, the wooden furniture were in peaces and the window was procken. I went to my neighbor to ask what happened. She admitted that she hear screaming and didn't call the police. She didn't call the police because my roommate invited a boy over pass curfew. When I responded with anger, she called RA for help. RA told me that my roommate asked for it. Later I finally found out that my foommate was at the hopital with the police. She never invited the boy over, he broke in from the window. Weeks later the school was sending lawyers at her to talk her into dropping the charges on her abuser. The school only cared about their reputation. We transferred to another school. I learned it's not about being believedble. It's about the convinance of the story
I've been on enough dates (not anymore. Yes, I'm that angry and disappointed woman), but at almost every first-second date the guy tried to make me drink to "relax", to "have some fun", because I am "too serious", "too this", "too that"... And call me crazy, but at some point I was so pissed off, that several times I pulled that exact same act to see if the situation will be similar to the one in the film. It was. The moment the guy (a "nice guy", decent, intelligent by all accounts of their friends, colleagues, etc.) felt like I was malleable enough, they just started to touch, to kiss, to cross boundaries and not taking "No" for an answer. Needless to say, that was the last time I saw them. Unfortunately, those types of men are so common, it is just disgusting and absolutely heartbreaking, it kills all hope. Makes you give up on everything, and yourself, too. Because at some point you can't help it but think that if you end up on dates like this, the problem is with yourself.
I'm sorry this has happened to you it almost makes you want to stage that stuff to get them busted but as the movie showed you need to die for it to be taken seriously. . .
@@plagueknight8026 , thank you for the nice words. Yes, the good point of the movie (though it was sad to watch and terrifying to think about) was exactly that. I really hope that things will get better, though, maybe not right away, but in time at least. And that there are good and honourable man out there, too.
Please, don't put yourself in a danger like that. Yes, as you said, you cannot know what they will do at that case and it could go worse than you expected. If you have already known how the things started to end that way, stay away from you recognised it. Be careful. And, forgive me, I have just watched the film and I feel scared and frozen to know things like that happen to people and reading that made me uncomfortable for the risks you have taken.
I honestly think the bounds and discipline of sexuality have been loosed way too far by our society and we think somehow people should have self-discipline over respecting consent when the self-discipline and selflessness of sexuality is at every other turn vanishing. I think your experiences very much reflect that and I genuinely think the reason I did not go through something similar is because I was blessed to grow up in/chose to embrace a culture of dating where self-discipline and selflessness are practiced from the start.
I hope you can find/contribute to a different kind of culture, even if you choose never to date again.
@@stadot1427 The sort of mindset that leads to such situations, though, has been around for a long time. After all, the phrase they use in the video - "sowing his wild oats" - isn't one from the modern "sexually loose" society; it's an old one.
That, of course, doesn't negate the fact that a sort of self-discipline is an important aspect in this topic; but it's not really a feature of the times. It's just that, in the past, it maybe wasn't happening in bars; it was happening in back rooms and in servants' quarters et cetera.
The fact that people like Andrew tate and the fresh and fit podcast are reaching prepubescent boys is terrifying really hope schools show this to help break down rape culture
What do you mean by that?
@@thelastkage646 what part are you not getting?
@@thelastkage646 I feel like it’s very clear what I mean
@@thelastkage646 Just watch one video of Andrew Tate and fresh and fit podcasts and the red pilled/ incel community. You'll quickly realise.
Yes there’s a difference between being a high value person and being a person who hates women!
I love that Cassie uses phycological tactics rather than brute force because it is more impactful in the long run and is more relatable to me and so many other women
I was SA'ed by a good friend of mine a few years ago and that was when i learned that predators are Not like they're potrayed in the movies, but often just your normal guy next door. The film potrays this in a great way and i really enjoyed your take on it! Yes, this is the movie every 14 year old dude should watch.
Spoiler Take:
Her death in the end also signifies that the reformed good guy is still not a good guy and is in fact the same guy from college.
Duuuude, this is honestly such a good take. Thank you for sharing 🙏
Yes, and him suffocating her was a very good choice. He didn't kill her "by accident". He had two freaking minutes to realize what he was doing and stop.
He probably would’ve done that to his soon to be wife also. Chilling
@@banxeescreems3337 Cassie wound up saving her.
He was a superficial asshole, that's what his murder of Cassie told me. She had a video that clearly showed he raped Nina. That's incontrovertible evidence in a court of law. So he had to kill her so that his superficial life and his reputation was kept intact. Like Ryan, this asshole had a facade that he needed to keep at all costs. And that facade could never be threatened. But unlike Ryan, this guy was willing to kill to keep that facade of "respectable good guy" from crumbling. He reformed to become a "better man" only to strengthen that facade, not because he felt actual remorse or empathy for Nina.
I have PTSD from multiple abuses (sexual, physical, verbal, emotional) as a child. Hearing Jono say things about it being ok to still feel the pain of past abuses, that it staying with you doesn't make you weak...that always makes me cry. I feel those words in my soul. So many people are of the, 'Just forget about it' frame of mind. You never do. Thanks for understanding, Jono.
The way I think of it is that you can heal from the trauma side of things, but I don't think most people could ever get to a point of not having negative feelings about it, because even just hearing that you've been abused (let alone in multiple ways) is upsetting. If I can feel upset about others going through that, I don't think it's realistic to not extend that same emotional reaction for myself. One can have an incredibly fulfilling and healthy life but still have things that make them cry at night. It's important.
This movie to me as a woman was incredible. When the government and the system fails women over and over again we eventually have to take it in our own hands
I think they are trying to say don't do that.
@@scootergirl3662 what are we supposed to do? no one will help us. watch the movie. Believe Me: The Abduction of Lisa McVey its on youtube, it shows that just catching the guys help victims alot, and when people are willing to put their own life at risk for the chance at saving others, thats when you know that they have been failed too many times
I honestly thought she was going to way worse. She didn’t do anything wrong. I wished she had done more but I still appreciated the movie. I’ve always said if one in 5 women are raped in their lifetime than how many men are rapists? But we never hear that statistic, do we?
Despite the similar dialogue between the scene with the boyfriend and the lawyer, we get very different framing that lays out the subtext: the lawyer is asking, begging to be forgiven. He's legitimately sorry for his part in this. He still remembers. The boyfriend doesn't remember and we get a very different reaction from him. He TELLS her to forgive him, trys to manipulate her into forgiving him. Read the lawyer in her lap, vs. the boyfriend standing over her, even as he's leaned back.
The blocking and camera angles are genius and tell a story itself. Very interesting to see even these clips of it. The strange framing is unsettling, makes us feel like vouyers on these lives, and shows who has the power but then it can easily shift. So well done.
Being sorry for raping someone counts for shitola
The fact that he says, "I don't want to watch this," clearly and immediately recognizing what it is, and then tries to deflect from his role in it and says he doesn't remember... man.
Jono: "You can't have empathy for an object"
My autistic brain, trying to throw away a cheap toy: "But her feelings!!! I would hate to be thrown away like that...
Help I'm autistic and the exact same when I was like 10 I cried when something i made got stapled onto a display board
@@tiddlesletoitoise Mood. I once didn't turn in an art project because it was done in our sketchbooks, and I didn't want the page to be torn out and hung on the wall. The thought of that was too much, so I just... Kept it.
@@abbewinter9249 autism is so much fun lol
Me, possibly autistic, every time I witness two inanimate objects hit each other: "Ow!"
I got overly attached to plushies... at toy stores... Like I didn't even get to take the plushie home but already felt bad for it because I couldn't bring it home where it is more comfy then in the store shelf o_o I was like 'It will be sad to stay here. What if nobody else will pick it.'
One thing I noticed about the men in this movie is that they all believe they're victims despite the fact that none of them have been in a victim's position. When Cassie starts messing with the first guy, he starts backing away from her and gets visibly nervous as if he's being attacked. Ryan feels victimized for witnessing Nina's assault and defends himself and others by saying "we were kids" which is usually something that someone says when their innocence was taken from them, as if innocence was taken from him by watching the assault happen. And then of course the idea of an accusation being "guy's worst nightmare," as if he's been framed rather than held accountable. Even the lawyer, who feels remorseful for his actions, asks Cassie if she's going to hurt him and begs her to help him, as if he didn't benefit from the assault case. The second they are called out on their behavior, they panic and assume this perspective of "the circumstances were beyond my control."
Good catch. I got the feeling that lawyer almost wanted her to hurt him, because he knew he deserved it.
@@julietardos5044 Despite the forgiveness, I think Cassie ultimately hurt the lawyer more by not following through with the hit. He gets to live in his guilt.
I've noticed that a lot of people mistake being held accountable for "being attacked" or "ganged up on."
YES and in the end she as a woman felt the need to comfort him by patting his back!! like shshsbskajsbwn
This movie is powerful in so many ways. I went into it knowing every single twist, but was still devastated when each of them happened. I have two issues with this analysis.
1. Cassie is stuck in a childlike state after her best friend's rape and death. But I don't think the outwardly appearance has to signify that. There is nothing wrong with girly interests and pastel colors. The makes chose that aesthetic not to portray her stunted development, but to communicate that this work has been made by women (the writer/director and the lead, also produced by Margot Robbie among others) for women and girls.
2. I like the idea that Al could have improved since raping Nina, but I don't think he actually did. There isn't much evidence one way or the other since Al isn't in much of the movie. But when Cassie confronts him, he doesn't really express remorse in any form. Also after neutralizing Cassie, there is no need for him to kill her. There is a reason why Fennel chose to make the sequence about two and half minutes long. Two actually - One famously because that is the average time it takes to strangle a person according to her policeman father in law. Two, he could have stopped at any point of time after knocking her out. He killed her. This is not a gun shot heat of the moment thing. He strangled her for two and half minutes, just like he raped Nina for presumably longer than that. This man is despicable. The horror is that he isn't an outlier psycho. He is an every person, a pretty respected one at that.
Well said! The point about Al choosing to continue for the whole two and a half minutes is so important. I think the earlier bit where he claimed to be loyal to his fiancee showed one side of him, but the other side was definitely still there, as we see later on. Again, I love how this film doesn't paint anyone as black and white, even the main baddie himself is not one dimensional and has a "nice guy" side.
I absolutely agree on both points and I was hoping someone else would see this as well. Wearing pastels and having interests that are traditionally associated with women doesn't in any way signify childlike status.
On the second point, I really disliked that they made the statement that this rapist got older and cleaned up his act. His actions at the end of movie only added to his rap sheet, he was just never held accountable for his earlier actions, so he committed an even more heinous crime. These people don't get better, they just feel more emboldened to do worse things, and there are far more of them than anyone wants to understand. People need to be held accountable for their actions early or they will never do so, and this mentality puts everyone at risk.
Hi guys! Love the video. But re: the notion that her sundresses, hair ribbons and general manner of dress were a manifestation of her having regressed into a mentality considered childish (if only by others in the film). i actually disagree, my perception was that it had more to do with cassie owning and embodying her femininity without it somehow being at odds with her fierce, justice-crusading mentality. sometimes we’re taught to abandon or shrink away from overt femininity, either because it doesnt align with the masculine-leaning “cool girl,” or because ultra feminine personas are typically villainized in film, it’s as though women need to counteract their femininity with masculine traits to make it more palatable to those around them. but in cassie’s case, being fucking furious doesn’t mean her presentation has to change to anything less feminine. sometimes in movies they use traditionally masculine behavior to telegraph that a women is REALLY angry, or ready for battle/confrontation, like showing women putting on war paint, huffing and puffing, or acting like men. but the movie subverts this by having cassie’s war paint be ribbons and sundresses, because it doesnt detract from, or even visually counteract, her fury.
Exactly this! Thank you for putting my thoughts into words.
Agreed 100%
Thank you! This is exactly it. I hate the theory that she has regressed to childhood and needs to grow up. Being feminine isn't childish.
You triggered a memory that was suppressed for more than a decade.
I love rock music, but at the same time I enjoy bright colours and cute clothes. When I wanted to go in a bright yellow outfit to my very first rock concert my boyfriend told me "jockingly" that he won't go with me because I want fit in the crowd in my clothes and everyone would be aggressive towards us. He pointed out that I would look like a fraud who doesn't give a shit about the music and only their because of her boyfriend. On one hand I was pissed at this rhetoric that I had to hide a part of my personality if I wanted to be taken seriously,.on the other hand - I bought it in and continued believing in this narrative for quite some time.
Exactly!!
That Ryan guy seemed to be a kind gentleman and fooled me, but when he showed his true colours by going from “I love you.” to “I was a kid.” and demanding to be forgiven by the girl who's friend he didn't defend in any way, something broke inside of me. 😖🥺
I genuinely feel that at the point society is at nowadays girls should receive free self defence lessons in all school systems because too many “NO”s are being ignored by men.
On this topic, in Spain the law has been recently changed so that unless you get a very clear “Yes!” from your partner you will be charged with assault or rape.
I was hoping that Ryan would turn out to be a cool dude, but I thought it was a huge red flag in the first scene we see him. I know it was played for laughs but he didn't back off even when she said she wasn't interested.
To me it was the "you never did something wrong?" Like he was talking about stealing a pack of gum at the gas station.
@@MelkorPT Yeah, that too. I meant the whole discussion in that scene, but it was too long to write.
Honestly, I hadn't noticed that red flag and that upsets me, how they teach us that persistence is romantic and all, even when the other is clearly not interested.
I was a little annoyed while watching this love story in the middle of a revenge movie, like "really? that's the message? if you open up you will find this awesome guy and his love will save you?!" I know I come across as a bitter cynical person, but it was just off, and when she finds out about the video it was my "AHA!" moment, and I hate that. I wish there were less reasons to expect the worse out of people.
I can understand that sentiment, but the mentality on self defense puts the responsibility back on the victim. Instead we should be looking at classes around consent (thought there are those who will violate while knowing about consent)
Further the power is not just physical. I am a trained fighter and have survived SA. My fight skills would not have done much in my situation because it's more than just physical power that can immobilize people. People can use coercion, gaslighting, financial strain, amongst many other thtings
The man that assaulted me is in prison for assaulting someone else. I often feel compelled to make sure I know where he is. He's on the sex offender registry so I knew where he was when he got out on parole. His probation included years of strict monitoring and appointments with a therapist. The 4 years he was out on probation I lived in fear.
I checked one day to discover he was back in prison. I felt sick thinking he'd assaulted someone else. I was able to discover that he violated his parole by looking at porn on his phone.
I cried in relief knowing he was in jail.
I have PTSD from this and other things. I know some of my triggers. Recently I was triggered at work. A man I didn't know startled me. Something about his face or his expression triggered that memory. I freaked out. I know I screamed, I know I said things, I don't know what I said. I know I ended up in a ball rocking against the wall while a room full of people were dead silent.
I don't know why I wrote this.
Sometimes you just need to get stuff out. But yeah I…yeah holy s*** I wish I could give you a hug or like a a gesture of comfort if u don’t like hugs….but yeah I’m happy hat a** is in jail too. And you getting triggered at work, Jesus that like more then sucks, damn yeah I’m sorry…s***
Damn. I'm sorry you experienced all that.
Maybe you wrote as a kind of talk therapy? At least that's what I'm doing, I think, when I blather on about my own (mild as these things go) trauma.
If it has to come out, it will come out, and this is one of the safest places I know of to do that because the community here, as well as Jonathan and Alan, makes sure that it is. The man that assaulted my daughter and manipulated my family is also in prison - hopefully he’ll never get out. And knowing he’s there, unable to do anything, gives me a lot of comfort. It means our family and especially my daughter has the time needed to heal. I truly hope your healing process leads to a long and healthy life. So many people, known and unknown, are in your corner.
I'm so sorry this happened to you. You have the right to share your experiences and your feelings. Sending you wishes of strength and happiness. Be kind to yourself. Thank you for sharing.
I wish you the best for everything in the future, sometimes you need to get it out and for that I applaud you for being brave enough to share it.
I hope one day you can see your strength despite setbacks you’re still here and you deserve to be.
What you said about not seeing women as worthy of empathy really reminded me of Florence Pugh's character in Midsommar. She went through such great loss and her boyfriend and his friends were just like ew gross she's a downer. Loved A Promising Young Woman as well, it was a hard watch but a very nessary one.
I remember thinking at the end of the movie "why did she go to the house? And put herself in the situation! She knew she could get hurt." before realizing that's exactly the point this movie is getting at.
honestly that scene with the dean was unforgettable to me. is it weird to say it's my fav scene?? it's just such a powerful way to flip the script on someone who doesn't care about something as horrible as SA, or doesn't stop to consider how ignoring the situation caused terrible consequences, by putting them in the same situation and making them feel what you felt.
when Cassie said "it's different when it's someone you love" it stuck with me even long after the scene had passed. the Dean just seemed nonchalant, unbothered even, by the incident to the point of excusing why she never let it get investigated when Cassie brought it up, but as soon as she thinks her daughter has been put in the same situation now *she* is the one demanding something be done, for her daughter to be saved while Cassie looks at her with indifference. just great writing throughout this movie, and bringing awareness to something that has been ignored or overlooked time and again.
The very scary part about that scene is that the dean is simply told "your daughter is now in a dorm full of drunk guys." No indication of where this dorm is or who the drunk guys are--nerds, football players, band members, acapella guys, the celibate weirdos living in the all-boys dorm. That to me indicates that the dean has dealt with rape accusations from ALL sorts of guys, not just testeroned jocks. And that's why the dean then becomes immediately terrified. Her university is FULL of potential rapists...
One of my main takeaways from this film, and I hope it gets talked about more - is how society shapes the narrative of the straight man. I know - very broad strokes - but still. When straight men have accumulated a lot of sexual conquests, they are almost lauded for it. This directly feeds into the whole 'men will be men' and 'boys will be boys' storyline - which is almost always never afforded to the woman. Women are shamed, slut-shamed, if God-forbid they have more than one sexual partner.
Absolutely. Hit the nail right on the head👍
Yes!! It is not an accident that Laverne Cox is her employer. Trans women of color face the most danger and she's this kind of constant visual reminder that while Cassie is the avenging angel, the real face of so many of these victims is right there, too
This is what toxic masculinity is. The ideal "manly man" is a sexual predator, a charming player with numerous notches in his bedpost. He has bulging biceps, he never cries or feels fear, and of course he treats women like scum, because they aren't human, right? Andrew Tate is the real life example of this, he's like what an AI would create if you taught an AI what toxic masculinity is. A real man has numerous side chicks, he never wraps it up, and of course he never marries his ho!
Unfortunately, toxic masculinity hurts EVERYONE, and it's throttling the life out of our society. And only men can fix it, because men who are under this sway refuse to listen to anything women say; however, most men won't even acknowledge this is a problem. So, we won't heal. It's a real tragedy.
Yeah or with the drinking, for the guys it is a reason to excuse them, for the women it is a reason to condemne them. It was her fault after all, she chose to get that drunk, but he can not be hold responsible. . . .
And it's very toxic to both parties, it can have these little boys grow into such horrible men in various ways and varying degrees. And it hurts women when things happen to them or they grow up for example being punished for something but when the boy does it he gets off, or if something happens to them on in life and they get said "It's your fault" and the men are told "Your a man of course you did that.", and hearing that with them growing up that makes them think they can do all this horrible stuff but because they are men and have these "male urges" they did nothing wrong when they did, and there are many men being raised with that mentality, what good does it too truly? It causes harming the sense of also society is perpetuating these very toxic ideas, but also people who have kids not taking greater care in teaching their children, that they are people, and they will meet other people out in the world and it is not okay to be going out harming people like that, be accountable for your mistakes and your actions, snd that their feeling matter and they are valid just as others feelings matter and are also valid. It is a simple concept at least to me, but many people complicate what is so simple.
Ok, personnal moment: when I was 15, I've been gang raped by guys of my high school, and I started to remember everything 6 years later. It took me a very long and awful time to tell my family, especially my perents, because I was afraid to destroy their world, or that they would stop talking to me, or call me a liar. Fortunatelly, I was wrong. My family is extremely supportive to me. Like many persons in my situation, I had (and still have) ideas of revenge. And it even used to be an obsession. But my memory is damaged, and I don't remember the names and faces of the rapists. My psy proposed me to practise hypnosis, it can be very efficient to unblock some memories, but after a while, I refused. Precisely because I wanted revenge. I imagined myself behind a glass, in jail, talking to my parents and sister, hearing their lives going on, but without me. I imagined their faces and what they would feel when i'd be declared guilty and sent to prison. And this vision made me cry so hard. And also, if I confuse my memories, if I think that a guy was one of the rapists when really, I just mixed it up, and he was innocent...I'd rather let culprits run free than hurting an innocent. That's the decision I took, and I know it was the good one: I have to protect my family, and sometimes, you have to protect them from yourself. But it also have consequences: I know that I will never have justice, though like every human being, I deserve it. I'm gonna live with the idea that these rapists are gonna stay free, and that my fantasies of bloody vengeance will stay a dream. And most of all, I sometimes feel like a coward, even a partner in crime: because I don't wanna remember who they are, maybe they're gonna do it again, to other girls, maybe they already did. And sometimes I feel so bad about it that I can't even look at myself in a mirror, because I sacrificed other girls for my family's sake, and my own mental health. I wish I can be a badass punisher, a vigilante, an avenger, an Arya Stark with her list of despicable victims in the making, walking the streets to make justice, to make sure that they will never rape, hurt, destroy again and to relieve myself from the burden of injustice, but I chose not to be. And it's very, very hard. I''m proud of who and what I am, of the way I walked, and what I chose to become, but I wish I could have succumbed to my own dark side. "The better revenge is a good life", I know it, but once in a while, I need movies like this one to make me believe that others fight for girls like me.
Im really sorry that happened and you didnt deserve that and I get exactly what you mean bc I went thru (even now still) that thought process of my assaulters and I get so frustrated sometimes with myself bc of it
@@clarisa6511 Thank you, and I feel sorry for you too. I think many people believe that the worst part of a rape is the act itself (and for some victims, it is), but for me and many of the friends that lived the same thing, the worst part is to live with the consequences, and especially the feeling of injustice that will never be fixed. I hope you'll get better!
Your first and foremost duty is to yourself. Is going to the police will hurt you more than not going, don't. It's not selfishness - it's self preservation. You're a survivor, and no one in their right mind would expect you to be a hero.
I didn't tell my family or the police about my rape. I don't know if that guy ever hurt someone else... He was a player, so it's not impossible. You know the type, entitled "you owe me sex" kinda person. I didn't go to the police because it was a different country and I didn't fully grasp what really happened after I was abroad. I didn't tell my parents because I knew that would mean them obsessing about me going out and retraumatizing me over and over again (I was an adult but still living with them). Was it the right decision? I have no idea. Would me going to the police save anyone? Maybe. But I needed to heal, and I decided that was the right way for me.
Sending you virtual hugs ❤️
Another subtle moment is that the guys at the bar target Cassie in her business suit right after disparaging their female coworker. It's like they want to project their frustrations onto another woman by demeaning and objectifying her.
The “forgiveness” scene with the attorney had some positive aspects, but overall I got a negative, satirical tone from it. Even when he was asking forgiveness, he invaded her personal space (she flinched at his sudden movement and was clearly uncomfortable) and he put the burden of his guilt on her, when it wasn’t her responsibility to bear it or even forgive him. It’s a nice-ish gesture, I guess, but also so frustrating for the man to do real harm and then treat a single woman like the representative for her gender and then have the nerve to ask her, the injured party, to “fix” the problem he created. It reminds me of how some white people can treat minority groups.
EDIT: This has prompted really interesting dialogue! Thanks to those who’ve shared their thoughts, including those with personal experience in this difficult topic. I love a good discussion, so I wanted to clarify my original comment. I do think the attorney is truly remorseful, hence why he feels so guilty. The scene absolutely had positive aspects, such as the attorney remembering Nina’s first name (though not her last), admitting his wrongdoing, and most importantly, the opportunity for Cassie to express forgiveness. However, in my subjective opinion, the attorney was still more focused on his own misery than on listening to or caring for Cassie. Paired with that is a lack of respect for her personal space. This may seem like quibbling, and I believe the filmmakers wanted his and Cassie’s positioning to imitate a painting of Mary and Jesus, which is powerful imagery. However, I think it still goes to show how deeply the objectification of women’s bodies is embedded in our collective consciousness. I don’t think any of this makes the attorney a bad person or invalidates his sincerity. I think it just shows why it’s important for men to not only admit if they’ve done wrong but also seek to know and understand women’s perspectives. While it’s a step in the right direction, there’s still a long way to go. That’s why I appreciate the movie’s complexity and dimensionality; it’s rich for interpretation and commentary.
I get where you are going, but I think it was about misleading the viewer into perceiving him as a threat and he was not using her, a single woman as a stand in for her whole gender. He apologied to her, for he directly wronged her! Furthermore he did not see it as full atonement and all done either, he still burned with the desire to make it up as much as humanly possible and he did once he got his hands on the evidence. That's why she forgave him, not because he asks hollow, but because he genuinely regretted and she knew it made him the most trustworthy ally to her! She could have send the evidence to her parents, to her employer, to Ninas mom, but she trusted him the most to make the most out of it, both with his expertise, but also the strongest drive to get it to use.
i second this. although asking for forgiveness is a vital part, was he not aware of his wrongdoing in the moment of committing it?
@@vildekongtorp5569 people change, people grow, he was kinda aware, but it was convinient not to thing about it. Everyone around him encouraged that behavior, pretty much rewarding him for doing the wrong thing, so is it really wrong?
I do not think anyone ever has not been in a situation like that to some extend, where they bend their morals, silenced their better angel for a reward. Not as bad perhaps, but the main machanisms are the same. Later coming clean, being able to rethink and compleatly accept your own wrongdoings is increadably hard and should always be respected. It does make it up, it does not make it undone, but it is something and it is something we desperately need more of in this world
I felt the same watching that. Him saying how he can't sleep and how he'll never move past this, seeing himself as a victim of the event and going to a friend of the ACTUAL victim for healing. Knowing that the victim was never healed, wondering if Nina ever confronted the boys just wanting one of them to sincerely say "I'm sorry" and never even getting that. For me that whole scene was bitter. As you said, it became the responsibility of a victim to help a person who caused the harm.
Edit: not to say the lawyer was wrong to apologize and try to mend what damage he could, and I don't mean to discredit any remorse he feels or growth he's had.
There are many things we can criticize about the lawyer’s apology (which y’all have laid out well), but if I got that kind of closure from my abusers or abuse enablers my healing would probably be possible. As it is, it’s been 30 years since my CSA and I will never find closure or be able to forgive. Because forgiveness will never be asked of me. Because they deny it to this day.
I felt nothing but seen and positivity and redemption (for her) when he asked for forgiveness and she was so surprised she forgave him. (Though Nina will never be able to forgive.)
I adore this film and the absolutely outstanding cast.
As a survivor I actually really liked the ending of Promising Young Woman which feels controversial to say? I felt some catharsis that although she died the police arrested him on his wedding day ruining the "perfect" life that he'd lined up for himself and the lawyer did the right thing
I loved the ending too. It’s only at death does suffering finally end. Revenge just simply isn’t enough. It’ll never take away what happened to Nina or the main character.
I think it is the only ending that makes sense and it is as positiv as possible. I hate the unrealistic notion that trauma equals years of fighting experience and the rigtious will always win for it does not and they won't. She did something stupid and she payed the realistic price. She knew how stupid it was, so she prepared to make the most of the worst with foresight adequate to her namesake.
I love realism, even if it is bitter
I don’t think it’s controversial to like this film even though you’re a survivor. I love this movie too even though I’m survivor a few times. I have a friend who could never watch this in one go. Different people will find it cathartic and/or incredibly triggering. It’s not a moral problem if you fall into either category. ☺️
"When you go on a journey of revenge, dig two graves." 🙁 And she understood that. But it's simply what she needed to do.
"I don't think the movie is wrong and it makes me so angry" is the best sum up of my reaction to this piece of art 💔
I don’t know if I’m alone on this but it would be interesting to see if other people feel the same way.
Although I’m sure what you guys said is 100% correct, I viewed the scene of ‘accidentally’ walking by his house as a way to show subtle male dominance. In all honesty, I think it blind sided her and took the control out of her hands and she felt that. From a woman’s point of view, you’re going for a nice walk, enjoying yourself when unknowingly he’s just directed you to his house. As a woman it makes you feel out of control and like you’re no longer on a level playing field. I think a lot of men don’t realise just how intimidating that kind of situation can be or how much pressure it puts on a woman to go inside even if they had the best of intentions. Instead of mutually agreeing to go back to a house there’s an uneven power play and it ends up with the woman feeling like they should go in even if they may not want to. And to add to that, if they say no they feel bad even though it’s fine and important to set boundaries. Maybe I’m being over sensitive but I know I wouldn’t like that sprung on me and I know I would never direct someone to my house without them knowing, feels shady and gives off weird vibes.
Ps love your channel guys!! Even when discussing very tough topics you both handle them with such care and you both always seem so wholesome and are forever bestie goals
I caught that too! Red flag for sure.
I agree with you totally !
Agreed. And it is unfortunate that we are conditioned to see a scene like this in a typical rom-com and think “oh how cute”. But put into this movie you see it for what it is, manipulation. It is the start of bringing a pot to boil slowly, so the animal inside doesn’t realize what is happening. It is slowly nudging someone to your agenda. Slow enough that you don’t alarm them. Slow enough that even if they feel uncomfortable, they feel equally uncomfortable “making a big deal out of it” by saying no. It’s insidious and a lot of people don’t quite understand that.
Yeah that still wasn't cool
Oh my God yes, that scene creeped me out. It definitely set off alarm bells. And you said it perfectly. One thing of it's either mutual agreement or if it is truly on the way to where you were going, but the way he said it and did it intentionally. Just, creepy and gross.
This is an amazing movie. Every woman can relate to this because we've all experienced some degree of everything that happens in this movie. I think it's incredibly powerful that there's no justice unless Cassie gives her life. It makes me so angry because its more realistic and that really sets it above other "revenge" stories. I do wish every young man would see this movie.
Agreed!
13:20 accurate as HELL. Whenever a guy would indicate sexual interest in me, Imediately wrote them off because I thought “that’s all they want.”
YES! Mine is more so with romantic interest in general but sexual interest is something I automatically tack on top once I feel like someone sees me beyond platonic. And if I even get the ghost of the thought that you're looking at me as something more? I've already cut you off mentally and currently working on cutting you out of my life physically.
I promise it is! No man seriously interested would take the chance to make you uncomfortable.
If I was on a date with a guy and we’re walking and we “coincidentally” end up at his apartment, I’m going home lol.
It seems way too planned out
@@eliana8834 not only that, but even if a man were not interested in you, if he were a decent person, he would not want to make you uncomfortable. You don’t harm people just because you aren’t into them.
Her boyfriend was a stalker and yet people see him as a good guy. She spits in his coffee, gives him the wrong number, when she doesn’t meet him at the movies he goes to her home and work space. I’m sorry he’s a stalker. I missed all that from first showing. Nice guys are beyond rare
You know, the part of “you don’t know when triggers will occur” really got to me because I was totally fine for most of the video until the part of the guy “being loyal to his wife” I mean I don’t disagree in becoming a better person but I guess what really upset me was that there was no repercussions for ruining others lives. They just get to move on like it was no big deal.
@@drstone3418 what do you mean?
It’s crazy how we give men the benefit of the doubt, but women get dismissed so so easily.
In college I was in a very codependent and emotionally abusive relationship, it was the messiest and most traumatizing breakup of my life. Our mutual friends didn’t understand what happened and why I was so distant. When I tried to tell our friends what had been going on and how things were tense between us, they told me “well maybe if you talk to him he’ll understand. He’s a good guy, he’ll probably listen.”
Meanwhile, he’d send passive aggressive and often aggressive messages to me privately while he acted like the “nice guy” in public and in the friend chat.
Those messages continued for a year and I lost touch with those friends.
I think you did the right thing, losing those friends.
Consent is such an important thing to teach boys. I don’t believe it’s a concept that should be taught until their adolescence, but much earlier. I feel it becomes a more complex thing to discuss more in depth when they’re adolescence, but that mindset needs to be instilled early when they’re malleable and opened to common courtesy and how to treat others. Of course, it can be broad themes when they’re little and more contextualized and at depth when they’re reaching puberty. Emerald has crafted an important film that young men need to watch, as well as older to bring these things that have been deeply embedded in our culture and society to teach how not to treat women, as humans, not objects.
I had to go further. I don’t think we need to actively teach consent. I think people automatically don’t want to push things on others unless they are actively conditioned to, and even then, they choose to go along with that conditioning.
I just find it weird, because if I were to claim to need to be taught any other social rule, and didn’t know what to do, instinctively, I would be considered autistic. And yet Men and boys can actively assault and rape women, and then claim that they didn’t know any better because no one taught them?
Also, it’s very obvious how to treat someone like a human, and not an object, even if you choose to see them as an object. It’s obvious which actual treatment is which, regardless of who you choose to do it toward.
@@blackswan4486 men and boys who treat women and girls as objects are riding thousands of years of stupid conditioning that men and boys are somehow superior. Just like racism is taught generation to generation, so is misogyny and sexism. I think this defeatist look at teaching boys and men is a lost cause because they’ll do whatever is why things are the way they are. Why even have laws if we’re all going to act like animals? While, technically we are animals, mammals to be precise, what distinguishes us from garden variety animals is our higher brain function, our capacity for critical thought. We don’t have to have laws or a government to govern groups of people, but we do to maintain order. Just because these conversations are uncomfortable to have doesn’t mean that they aren’t worth having. Just because you don’t find value in what I say is your prerogative, but I think it benefits the next generations to become better men. Will it cure the world? No, but they won’t be able to say they weren’t taught.
When I saw the trailer for this movie, I was so excited to see it because it took a huge issue and made it an important topic. This movie didn’t disappoint because even I initially thought it was going to be a slasher but just the psychological warfare she was playing was even better.
I also liked how she flipped the same arguments back at them, especially the Dean’s. Not many people know or understand that women also doesn’t always believe other women and also blame them for their own assault, too. Not just men.
My 2 closest female friends and I have been SA’d, and one of which was also told by a female friend that it was her fault for being drunk, which was ironic because she was also known for drinking. She also wasn’t believed or was blamed when she told people.
I didn’t tell people until years passed because I was afraid of the very same things the movie draws attention to and what another commenter mentioned. Either I won’t be believed, I’ll be blamed, or I should just forgive him because it makes everyone else uncomfortable.
I love this movie. It did a great job at showing predators from the women perspective. The fact that it shows the difference between nice guy and good guy. It shows how easy rapist are protected. This movie deserved the Oscar for best picture cause of how it shows us the uncomfortable truth. You see everyday with how news of rape or sexual harassment and how the men are defended and women are shared the blame. Watching this movie kept making think of Brock turner case. I wanna give shout out to Carrie mulligan and the whole cast for giving stellar work. Every guy in this movie you wouldn't think twice by looking at them that they rape women. The end of this movie is great cause when she gets her revenge you feel great
It also does a great job at pointing out how bystanders are activ enablers and just as much the problem in their summ, as the offenders, especially for they chose females to criticise there, yes, women to can be sexist against other women, it is not a male only problem!
Remember all my fellow men: there is a difference between a "nice guy" and a good man. Because the good man is the one who sees the nice guy try to cut the drunk girl from the herd at the nightclub, gets them to back off, and calls over a waitress to and provides cab fair (if you have money...20 bucks for a cab feels alot better than getting a 20 dollar beer in a crappy nightclub in any event).
@@drstone3418 duide you can't even talk straight.
@@drstone3418 dude, shut the hell up. You sound like the jackasses that enable the wanna-be date rapists. You see a guy trying to slide his way into a falling-down drunk woman's DMs, you do the honorable thing and help her. You don't sit back and let him have his way. Comments like yours explain why so many men think they didn't do anything wrong.
And then doesn't go online to tout what a nice guy they are, or complain "but I didn't even get a thank you kiss!" I've seen that on social media 🙄. Do it because it's the right thing to do, not to expect a favor in return or the clout of telling others about your good deeds.
What sticks out is that of all the excuses, only the lawyer ever says sorry. None of them are genuinely guilty about what they did, they panic and start making excuses and demanding forgiveness and compassion whenever it negatively impacts them, but they don't spare an ounce of that compassion for the people they hurt.
Oh I didn't read her fashion as childish but as feminine. Part of the strength of her character is that she takes action but not by dressing like a man, or acting like a man.
Gotta say idk if I appreciate her style being read as childish. Equating feminine with childish is part of why women don't get taken seriously.
She clearly didn't move on and all but I can't agree with the "regression" interpretation.
I AGREE
Her wardrobe is largely junior's clothing yet her character is a 30 year old woman. Personally, I think this is a good visual way of pointing out that she is emotionally stuck in the age she was at the traumatic event. She's gotten older and more experienced, but she hasn't explored her interests or evolved them, perhaps because it would feel like leaving Nina behind.
Agree with this and with reading her reaction to her “good” boyfriend basically trying to coerce her into coming to his apartment as being “triggered” and failing to open up is pretty toxic.
@@ceriseisacolor5677 Cassie wasn't traumatized when she was a child. She was traumatized when she was in med school, in her mid-20s. She was a fully grown adult. She wasn't "emotionally stuck in the age she was at the traumatic event" because she wasn't a small girl when all this happened to her. I think her need for "junior's clothing" was a subconscious way to venerate her dead friend, Nina, who had been her dearest childhood friend. Her dropping out of med school, living with her parents, working at a coffee shop were indirect ways of reliving her childhood past with Nina. It was her way of grieving. She needed a good therapist to move beyond all of this, to get her life on track again.
While I agree that it can be pastel in the sense of assuming femininity. In the scene, they do make her drink out of a cardboard juice box while the mom tells her to stop being a child... I though this was quite telling of the intentions of the filmmaker.
Yes! I love this movie. For me this movie is more than revenge- it’s grief and the recklessness and trauma that comes with it.
I love hie it plays with the expectation of revange, but subverts it and goes way deeper instead
OMG YEEESSSS ever since I heard how the director casted “nice guys” in Hollywood and created this comfort to the audience whether or not we realized it and spun it on its head I WAS OBSESSED WITH THE SUBTLETIES, the foreshadowing, the clothes representation, the colors (a lot of pink and blue contrasts and shades) and IM SO HAPPY CINEMA THERAPY COVERED THIS I love this movie so much🖤🖤
This is my new favorite episode. Watching Promising Young Woman felt like I was watching myself get the revenge I feel towards the teenage boy who molested me when I was 5 years old, and the man who raped me when I was 25 years old. When I was a child I told my parents I was molested, and who did it, my parents told their friends, and yet absolutely nothing was done. They even let me be alone with this teenager, let me spend multiple nights alone with him. When I was raped at 25 I filed a police report, sat in a car with a detective while he listened to me ask this rapist if we had any sexual contact because I was so drunk I couldn’t remember. Went to the hospital for a rape test. There wasn’t enough evidence. Nothing happened to this man either. I did all the right things, within my capacity, to right the situation and hold them accountable. So watching this film is cathartic, and I definitely seriously consider “Would it be worth it, to physically harm these men now? Or ruin their lives?” The answer is alway no, it’s not realistic, and it’s wrong…but it is still really, really, really difficult to think “that would be wrong.”
It's about bloody time a movie line this was made. Secondary trauma can affect so many in ways we cannot even fathom. No means no, full stop. No questions asked, no quarter given.
He was one of my best friends. I trusted that guy with my life. He was sweet, funny, charming... He drove me to the hospital when I needed medical attention, he slept in my roommates bed after she moved out and I was in the room. I even had a crush on him my freshmen year of college. And then I found out who he really was... Just like Ryan.
Allan: “All these guys are playing scumbags so well “
Pretty much every woman watching this: 😐
Yuuuup
yes
I love how the scene where she doesn't give forgiveness is right after the scene with the really easy forgiveness she gave to the lawyer. Hopefully that shows men you get the forgiveness when you act remorseful. You can't just jump to forgiveness without the pain of remorse. So many men want to jump away from negative and uncomfortable feelings as fast as possible.
Also in the scene with Nina’s mom and she apologizes for not being with her that night she blames herself for a part in her best friends death. There are so many layers to her it’s insanely well done
"Incredibly entertaining but I don't particularly want to watch this film again" was almost exactly what I said to my friend after we finished watching it. It's awesome that you'll be having your boys watch this. It's uncomfortable and shows how quickly things can go wrong and that you have a responsibility to stop things and provide safety when you can.
This movie made an impact on me so hard that I cried of fear afterwards. I was enchanted by Bo Burnham's character (as it was written to be) and the shock of discovering that he was there and didn't do anything made me fear every single man on earth. As they said in the beggining of the video: one thing is to know things and one thing is to feel things, and this movie made me feel things.
On a side note, the fact that they repeat the boy firends roles in each event was a great decision of the filmakers. There is the one who commits the crime itself (the r*pist and murderer), the ones that support/help the criminal (all his friends on the stag party) and the one that choose to do nothing (Bo Burnham's character had the chance to tell the police where she was, but chose to do nothing just like he did with Nina).
I like how Alan was like I’m gonna sit down and watch this with all my boys when they’re old enough CUZ THAT IS EXACTLY EXACTLY WHAT I SAID TOO after watching the movie for the first time 👏👏👏
This movie is truly a lot to handle for anyone with first-hand trauma and secondary trauma, because it speaks the truth about our society. Throughout the film, I noticed that everyone who isn't a victim... including the women who never experienced trauma themselves... tells the main character to forget what had happened and move on as if it never had happened. That is such a toxic mindset. Trauma is there and it needs to be acknowledged before any healing can occur, but how can you heal when everyone around you says forget it and move on. 😰💀
BTW, I am loving these videos about teaching boys healthy masculinity and teaching them to be humane humans. 😎👍🥰🥰🥰🥰🥰🥰🥰
PS: Alan and Jon being teary eyed shows how much compassion and love they have with humanity. You can tell they truly care about the world and all within it. And boys need to see that and see that it is okay.
I've experienced ongoing abuse starting at age 10. Just not financial abuse. I'm 22 now and have just started getting panic attacks. I bought this movie not expecting to love it, but it helped me out a lot when I saw it.
I'm so glad to hear you found it useful. Sending you kindness across the internet @Taylor Grace .
The way I see it, one of the points being made by her going after all these random guys in the beginning is that sure, not all guys are bad, but as women we have to take into account that it can be ANY guy. And then that is taken further when she’s seemingly found the Unicorn, a guy who doesn’t do that, but then nope - he was complicit too.
This video was done in the most respectful fashion. I just found out I’m pregnant with a boy and seeing you two talk made me feel a little better that there are good men in this world ♥️
I wouldn't want any of my friends to be in danger in any way. That said, I found it very touching how much Carey Mulligan's character cares about her friend. I've found in the aftermath of assault, friends are more likely to drift away rather than become supportive. Again, this movie shows a very extreme example of support. But wow to have a friend who cares about you that much 🤯