Hey everyone! I see a lot of comments about the Frost effect and it lowering the targets resistances and how that should have been taken into consideration for this video. You are right, frost does indeed allow you to do more damage to the target. The issue here is in this video using this specific mechanic of applying it and instantly removing it so you can apply it again you do not get to reep the benefit of the additional damage, because the effect is never on the target long enough to do so. Unlike bleed you can not apply frost to a target again unless it is removed or eventually ticks down after a period of time. This video is specifically meant to compare the large burst of damage you get on the target when you applied either of these effects. Looking at the in any other way they are not really comparable because they do different things. Bleed just cause damage to a target based on its total HP. Frost causes damage based on HP, if left on the target if it is another person slows their stamina regen and on all targets reduces their resistances causing them to take more damage. Looking at all those factors is kinda like comparing apples to onions. Hope this clears things up a bit for those who did not understand the purpose of the video. Sorry I was not more clear about this.
That's kind of why you shouldn't immediately remove the frost. Also, with equal upgrades, and equal stat investment, frost weapons do more damage (split int/physical stat, magic/physical). Blood infusion reduces the ar more significantly.
AR doesn't matter for status effects. Bleed builds faster the higher the Arcane, Frost with Intelligence. Using your Arcane build to test a Frost weapon is not comparing apples to apples
@@zotaninoron3548 are you sure INT doesn't affect the Frost buildup score on a weapon (e.g. 104 for the CS the OP was using)? For Bleed I'm pretty sure the higher Arcane, the larger this bleed score (the faster the bleed proc)
@@MrEdmie I'm playing an int/dex melee character with 68 int and use frost infusions and frost weapons. For frost you get what you get. And bleed only goes up when the weapon gets arcane scaling like if you infuse it with blood or occult. Look at any katana with no arcane scaling and see how much blood buildup you get. Infuse it with occult with a bunch of arcane and see the difference.
Int only scales the magic damage frost infusion gives, not the buildup of the status. Not to say a frost build shouldn't invest in int to get the most dps they can. Quite the contrary.
Mixing elonara's poleblade with a cold infused twin blade gives you the bleed as well as the frost status plus elonara's poleblade has split fire damage so it automatically resets the frost buildup. I found that using the frost cloud ash of war very quickly applied frost and staggered then one jump attack would cause bleed and reset the frost counter. Very strong combo
Isn’t resetting the frost counter…. Well counterintuitive? The point of frost is supposed to add the 20% damage intake debuff but if you reset it, it’ll just be chunk damage like bleed and in which case, use bleed for most enemies.
There are bosses who are immune to frostbite: *death bird, death rite bird, tibia mariner.* But that's so few compared to bosses who are immune to bleed.
This doesn't talk about the real difference between bleed and frost. Bleed needs arcane investment to be in 100+ build up. Frost scales with nothing. If you have no arcane investment, your bleed build up will always be half of frost while frost can be splashed onto any build. Frost's AR scales with int but isn't needed for the status build up.
Frostbite also makes a target take extra damage from ALL attacks while active, and reduces a target's stamina recovery. So it may not do as much damage at onset, but has the potential to be just as deadly. Of course, best solution is to use both! Especially if you set it up so the Frostbite procs first. And I just like Frost because my witchy wifu gave me a nice sword as a wedding gift.
I'd like to make sure anybody who checks the comments knows that using fire to reset frost will immediately allow the next proc and that it doesn't effect the build up just the effect that comes after the proc which allows it to proc faster and also lowers the targets resistance back to normal as far as I know although it's possible it might not but I doubt that judging by how many hits I needed to proc it with fire and frost grossmessers
You can do the exact same with frost, and frost also increases damage taken. Better to use one of both, inflict frostbite to increase damage taken by 20%, and proc your bleeds off that with the bonuses. Dont knwo why people keep insisting on one or the other and not just use both....
Plus you can do that plus more with bleed, a mask and a talisman. I think the real advantage to frost over bleed is not having to put points in arcane. You can have a very viable mage with added melee effectiveness.
@@jackdhammer Yeah you make some good points. I often co-op bosses with friends so as our resident sorcerer I always aim to freeze the boss so we can all do more damage together.
I've been running a dual grave scythe build with blood on one and frost the other. The scythes have such a high stat proc that bleed is applied really fast even with one of them having frost on. The constant bleeds with frost applied does alot of damage.
Frost is more utility for alternate damage. It's a debuff first and a damage dealer second. Bleed is just an over powered damage dealer first and that's it. And yes it was the buildup number difference that resulted in different number of attacks, lots of enemies have the same threshold of resistances especially bosses. They typically have the same numbers for all 4 statuses on the resistance section of the wiki, some have different numbers of resistances between a couple of the types but it's clear in this situation the resistances are all the same, considering its a dragon and another dragon I looked at had all the same. I still think frost is a better tool when equipped WITH bleed. Proc frost first for the 20% lower defense debuff then bleed away for 30 seconds before applying frost again. I personally prefer frost on builds that don't involve bleed as bleed is best utilized on arcane builds and I don't always put into that Stat.
You can always try to ad some points to frost to see will it be 14 hits.Doesn't matter if its a bit more than bleed, its just for you to see if your theory is right or if you are close to right
I use both, occult nagakiba w seppuku in my off hand, and cold nagakiba with double slash in my main, youll need points in dex and arcane up as high as possible, 70 dex + millicent prosthesis + great rune buff makes it 80, with 75 arcane it also makes it 80 and then youll want like 40-50 intelligence, and the bleed will proc in like 3 hits and the frost in 4 hits back to back and it is absolutely devestating, use white mask, raptors black feathers, claw talisman, lord of bloods talisman, millicent prosthesis, rotting/winged sword insignia, and/or shard of alexander for double slash damage, thorny cracked tear for more damage. So what ive found so far with katanas at 50 strength, 80 dex, 80 arcane, and 48 intelligence is that they scale better and have higher AR with frost vs bleed/occult, at lower levels, for example with blood scaling, nagakiba is D in strength, B in dex, and D in arcane, so 50 str, 80 dex, 80 arcane is 230+366 =596. But with frost scaling D in strength, B in dex, and C in int i get 198+242=440 + (158+83 magic damage) =681 and thats with my int 32 levels lower than the arcane.
There are some other things to consider here, however. Frost seems to scale better than bleed (at least on some weapons). I have neglected any intellect in my build and went straight Dex/Arcane. My base int is only 10. Where my Arcane is 32. Blood scales with arcane and frost scales with int. With blood ash on my Godskin Peeler the total AR is only 379 compared to my frost ash which give it 479 AR. Both have the same build up of 119. This alone may not make up the difference of the bleed damage on the proc.. but it may on enemies with higher resistances. At any rate, not a bad idea to have one of each type so you can switch out on enemies immune to bleed. I think both are pretty well balance. Another consideration is enemies take 20% increased damage and reduced Stam regen when frosted. I think if you are wearing the talisman and helm that increase your damage when bleed procs, than the choice is clear. Otherwise, it's not so clear and more up to your preference.
interesting. i was wondering if a cold godskin peeler could be combined with eleonoras poleblade build ( mostly dex/arcane, with a few points in faith for buffs or rotten breath ) since I dont want to level up int. your comment helped me a lot😁
I feel like this is a very dumb debate since both status effects are very good and you pretty much make a build out of what ever status effect you feel like in the game and you talked about blood build having enemy’s that have resistances to them the issue with that is if you put on occult for those weapons it makes blood build better over all because it makes you do a lot more dmg but proc blood a little bit less plus you can power stance with seppuku and with this build I was able to proc blood loss with every attack
I made a Castlevania build using 2 x Hoslow's petal whips with hoarfrost ash and raptor ash applying frost (105) and poison (107) types as an additive to the whips natural bleed (110). In conjunction with talismans and the whips natural unparryable and shield ignore mechanics along with proper str, dex, int and arc balance scaling...these things are ruthless using the LB combo.
Kinda like grease v enchant. I assume bleed is much better early when stats and damage are low. Then that 20% at higher outputs should be better most of the time.
i see frost as an health loss build up, but also damage focused debuff, while bleed is just focused in health loss build up. It really depends in what weapons you apply them and what is your objective
So, heres a WILD idea, why instead of saying Bleed OR Frost, por que no los dos!?. Use both, building up the bloodloss and frostbite, then once the frostbite procs and gives you the 30 seconds of 20% extra damage, you can proc off 2 or maybe 3 hemorrhages in that time, all benefitting from the bonus. Let alone the fact that as already stated, some bosses cannot be bled, this immediately makes the frostbite weapon more valuable, as the 20% bonus to damage at least somewhat makes up for the fact that you cannot bleed them.
This game is alot to learn that's for sure, after watching many videos I guess it just comes down to what best suits your build ... bleed is good, seems to the best .. however it's not for me .. frost and with holy is what I'm using atm
It'd be cool if in future DLC we get a merging of bleed and frostbite as a weapon buff and or spells. Of course by that point both status effects will most likely be nerfed, but just imagine frozen blood as a theme, like a callback to Cainhurst
Nice approach. Hoping frost gets some items to buff it in future patches / dlc. Would like to see frost used more, but it's hard to convince people to put down the bleed crutch.
My last built was dual nagakiba one frost and one bleed and it was pretty kracked. After making that build I was like why haven’t I used this the whole time.
imo bleed is better if the lord blood talisman/white mask equipped for more damage on when the target is bleeding. and frost is good if you're saving slot for other useful talisman/head piece as it already giving you more damage to the enemy. but overall bleed just give more damage if you're taking advantage of combination of white mask+lord blood talisman+claw talisman+black feather or whatever that armor name is
Also I’ve only played for like 3 months but from what I’ve learned is some enemies have different amounts of resistance to bleed vs rot vs frost etc… but he could be right grayol might ave the same resistances acrosss the board
Another issue is the viability of the build. Chilling mist is out for an incredibly short 15 seconds as opposed to most other buffs which last a minute or more. So hard to manage it during a fight and not worth applying to powerstanced weapons. I realize this test was intended for a very specific purpose and succeeded at it. But, not only did bleed win based on the statistics, but it’s also way more practical. Even if there is a debuff of 20% if chilling mist should actually last long enough to apply it (a frost infused Clayman with high int might be better).
Please revisit this for the dlc. I am torn between frost and bleed for the Milady. I'm currently lvl 300 or so, in Ng+2, and am running 2 Milady's, one of each.
I just use dual uchigatanas with frost on both and get bleed and frost proc. It’s only 38 bleed but it still works quite well for me. Not to mention they shred through Malenia. Hehe
I think you should test the best bleed build vs the best frost build. Or just good/solid builds. Then you can say which one is better. The pro of a frost build is that you can use almost any weapon, because 60str/60dex/50int would give the most AR and that 60/60 is nice for strength and Dex weapons. With a bleed build you are bound to Dex or bleed weapons- depending if you go blood or occult infusion.
It doesn't make sense to have an entire build revolving around just frost buildup in the first place. Frost simply is worse in numbers, except for enemies that are very resistant to bleed or even immune. Period. Frost's advantage is the thing that people that do "frost builds" cancel out: the +20% damage taken debuff. Ironically that one is awesome for a bleed build. I guess then it would be a hybrid frost/bleed build though. You'd apply frostbite asap and switch to pure bleed weapons. It's kinda like wearing a 2nd White Mask, just so that the damage buff also applies to the bleed procs. At the end of the day frost is supplemental. That should also explain why it's associated with int. All the sorceries deal 20% extra damage then.
I’ve been using poison builds for about a month and honestly it just destroyed everything even in pvp bleed builds don’t stand a chance if done properly. I did frost my first play thru and really if your like me and on ng+3 then your best bet is poison or bleed.
@@habub500 I’m pretty sure you just use an ash of war that adds the status such as poison mist, but select a different status affinity for the weapon. Using that method you can get 3 statuses on the Antspur Rapier. In the case of the Uchigatana’s you just need to add either frost or poison affinity and that will just be added on top of the natural blood loss. It works that way for every standard smithing stone weapon with native bleed.
Very interesting video! Thanks for this. Something fun that I've been playing with (as others have mentioned in comments too) is a bleed + frost build. I would be curious to see a video about how bleed damage works after frostbite occurs. So for instance would it be more effective to run full bleed, run bleed+frost and NOT reset frostbite using fire or run bleed+frost with fire's deadly sin and keep resetting frostbite. Anyway, awesome video and thanks for your time and effort on this!
Astel Naturalborn of the Void is immune to frostbite, as is Blaidd. Not sure if any others, but as I’m also doing a frost build with Death’s Poker i know those two are for sure! Used Wing of Astel to beat Astel for the damage bonus, but Blaidd still giving me trouble
Mohg The Omen is actually completely immune to all status Its does seem like more enemies are susceptible to frost than bleed though. I wonder what the actual numbers are?
Mixing both is actually more effective. While sure being pure bleed you stack bleed quick. However it's only that one stack itself. Mix it with frost. You literally chunk health. If you want your frost to quickly stack, upgrade your intelligence. If you want bleed to stack faster, increase your arcane.
@@MrSuvvri death birds are also immune from bleed. I personally prefer frost because while it’s in effect enemies take more damage. I also usually use weapons with both bleed and frost so that I can proc both statuses and it diversifies my status effects so that the same weapon will be useful on more enemies.
Bleed is around 10% of max hp and frost is around 5% but I believe the bleed vs frost is really depens on your build one example is using Eleonora poleblade +another twin blade with chilling mist and every jump will trigger the frost while Eleonora would both reset it and build up that bleed bar so you can enjoy a nice int/arcane build there that would prock more frost to stagger the enemy constantly and its really fun
Its entirely build dependent no? Like regardless I still favor applying frost affinity to weapons that have bleed innate on it. 20% debuff really helps your spells hit harder once youve applied it.
Well yea there is no wrong way to play and its what ever you find fun. This video was just for my own curiosity. But if I'm going to do the work why not make a video about it. This is the way. When it comes to the life of a content creator anyway lol
I had trouble with Radagon on my bleed build due to him being immune to bleed though.. Other physical and magic builds gave me a tough time getting enough dmg in. So in that case frost / fire builds could work well. For everything else, yeah bleed is really strong,
I feel like for a fair comparison you shouldn't have equipped extra gear for the bleed build to have it have the same damage, after all the infusions always lower the damage for bleed weapons and raise it for frost weapons so that should be part of the comparison and not negated. Also the differences are alot more complex than your experiment showcases, generally speaking bleed is better on fast weapons while frost is better on strong weapons...for frost it's not about applying, removing and reapplying (unless you're using fast weapons maybe...I guess). My dual frost golem halberds have an AR of about 900 each without any buffs/talisman, it takes two to three L1s to apply frost and then for 30s you do 20% more damage, in those 30s the blood weapon will build up resistance by applying bleed at least once or twice...in other words unless you're playing very passive you almost never proc frost more than three times against one boss whereas for blood builds you can expect to hit the resitance cap much earlier. And lastly the giant dragon imo is a very bad comparison tool because it favors blood to an extreme degree...the dragon is only about the status procs while for the rest of the game the weapon damage usually also plays a role by itself (for frost at least, less so for bleed). I think the main thing that makes bleed the meta playstyle is because it has dex weapons like Rivers of Blood and Eleanors Twinblade with op weapon ashes plus seppuku as an op ash for any weapon...if str builds and collosal weapons were meta then frost would also look better against bleed
I play a frost knight character and I love it when fighting a boss I start with ranni dark moon and go with with adulas moonblade or icecraig I get frost off so quickly
Weapon scaling. If you run an arcane build, bleed is better, if you run an intelligence build, frost will be better. But between the two, bleed is much stronger as far as damage goes.
@@Hatemx1 yea, just as far as running both, you'll get more damage running one or the other. Although if you can get a weapon that already has bleed on it, its like a nice little passive to combine with frost. But bleed builds right now are just much stronger. They need to be nerfed. Dudes are like 3 shotting bosses with it.
it's a cool comparison although you had to invest 65 points into arkane to get those boosted damage results for bleeding. you don't need that for frostbite. so it's frost vs bleed for that specific build I guess...
That's what I was waiting for him to show. But he always reset it and tried to reproc. I prefer frost for the defense debuf for the enemies, and he doesn't talk about it at all
It's 20% and frostbite does 10% max hp dmg + 30 dmg, compared to bleeds 15% max hp dmg+ 100 or 200 dmg. With that debuff it wouldn't make that much of a difference.
because you are removing it right away. So you do not benefit from that extra damage. To get that you would have to leave it on. Which if you are doing that you cant compare it to bleed. This video is specifically comparing it to using it like bleed.
@@Firespark81 so you prefer to compare bleed in its best case scenario to frost in scenario that its in its weekest. Of course frost will loose. Its ment to boost your damage so if you have 500 AR then with frost you have efectivly 600 AR after bleed proc. That's huge differance. On bosses with giant health pull bleed is better for sure but in pvp i think frost wins
Bro you make some quite nice Elden ring build vids, taught me a lot about the game I didn't know, so thanks DK if you knew but I think there is a Golden order inc that removes all buffs [and maybe debuffs] so testing on dragon could be better? [i think]
@@btnhstillfire or you could infuse two scavengers swords.. one with bleed one with frost. The frost doesn't scale with anything and is 105 rating and the bleed will be 108 or something with 50 arcane.
Here i was thinking you went on a hiatus... turns out youtube unsubscribed me from your channel so I stopped getting notifications. Looks like I have some catching up to do
@firespark81 did you take into consideration the time to proc might be wavering depending how fast your strikes are? (ie. a faster combo builds up an invisible bar more continually) I have some testing that supports the amount of hits don't determine anything but player posture... and even that goes off an invisible bar... player Super Armor might be a better example than player posture...
In pvp all the heavy armor have high bleed resistance while not having so great frost resistance. The best shields have 100% physical absortion, so bleed weapons cannot deal damage to a shield hugger, while a cold weapons can with its magic damage. Also, no decent player is gonna let you bleed him multiple times, so the frost is better because the damage increase makes a difference instead of a second build up that never gets to proc.
I will not watch it but will give a like ,because bleed is the best in like every way,even if they nerf it to 5 % it will still be good,unless its like 2% it will always out do anything,except maybe 2 colloasal sword with cold affinity (watchdog sword and guts sword)
Doing so will make the blood bleed up so slow (around 35?) which is very low if ur target is to bleed enemies since it’ll take so many hits to proc and with such low build up. Only way this “might” work well is if u solely spam weapon arts that have many hits such as repeating thrusts AoW.
Frost is better because there are no bosses (that I know of) that are immune to frost nor are there any bosses that have high resistance to it. All bosses have an average resistance to frost except for the erdtree avatar I believe. There are Alot of bosses highly resistant to bleed and there are bosses immune to it... Like radagon and elden beast. A few bosses are weak to bleed also. I would rather use frost though. It is more dependable across the board. Edit: btw bleed status effect scales with arcane while frost status effect doesn't scale with anything. There wasn't any difference between 7 and 60 arcane when it came to frost since I just checked today.
I can give you a tip that yall will understand is frost build can build up with mage spell and bleed build only do for buff. And frost if you know the true build is then frost may kick you faster than bleed.. if u want test. Just text me. I'm build frost at elden beast name Elden lord 2nd
Im sure that would apply to frost as well. But does frost have any things to help boost it like bleed does? And there are soooooo many weapons out their with bleed already on them, not so much with frost.
I will get my seccond SCAVENGER'S CURVED SWORD to make frost/bleed hybrid frost build up is 105 when bleed is low as 38, scale on dex,st C and B for int, will go full 80 int and 40/40 for other 2, I am lvl 234 right now. Going hybrid will do insane damage without buffs
7 hits? Makes me think this test isn't really a good way to decide what's better frost or bleed... Bc no one who actually runs a bleed build takes 7 hits to bleed someone ......
Sewer mohg is not susceptible to any status effect don't oversell frost. I know it's good versus malenia but it is not OP in any way. Also frost infusion does not benefit from jump attack damage increasers like claw talisman and raptors feathers so if you are making a jump attack build magic might be the way to go. As with everything it has it's tradeoffs.
Intelligence usually if you are running a cold affinity on a weapon, it changes the scaling to Intelligence and adds magic damage however I think arcane effects all status buildups but I could he wrong on that. But if you make a weapon cold affinity it changes that weapon scaling to Intelligence so your damage will come more from that but I think the buildup number is up to the arcane Stat if I'm right on my thoughts.
It is a bit of a late reply, but from what I gathered Arcane stat plus a Blood infusion makes the bleeds happen faster and stronger. Frosbite doesn't scale with anything. The INT stat just increases the magic damage of the weapon, but the status effect will happen for the same value and the same amount of time no matter what stats you invest in. Hope it helps someone who reads this later.
Your examination of these to abilities is based off the false assumption that people shouldn't use the Mimic Tear. If you and others like you actually included the full range of options players have bleed would rarely come up over what you can accomplish with the summon. Spear of Gransax puts both of those elements to shame.
After beating the game 36 times. Bleed is far superior and the easiest play through. Throw frost or bleed on a weak weapon for an entire play through (fists or a club), you will see the difference. Frost will only help if your weapon also does large damage to get value out of your frost debuff… where as a no upgrade bleed club will still do its % damage according to the enemies health bar regardless of its upgrade level or your stats. Level 1 club I can hit that dragon for 13k damage 6-8 times, and he’s done.. can’t do that with frost. Also you will run into more bosses that are frost resistant versus bleed resistant, vastly reducing any “damage debuff” you might think your frost is doing.
I'm 100 hours in and I've only got one great rune! I think I'm missing everything trying to see everything. 36 times though!!!??!! I don't know if I'm in awe of you or what.....wow.
Well.. if you've beaten the game that many times you probably already know that elden beast and radagon are immune to bleed, and malikath is highly resistant to bleed, kinda a big deal. No required bosses are immune or highly resistant to frost.
Hey everyone!
I see a lot of comments about the Frost effect and it lowering the targets resistances and how that should have been taken into consideration for this video. You are right, frost does indeed allow you to do more damage to the target. The issue here is in this video using this specific mechanic of applying it and instantly removing it so you can apply it again you do not get to reep the benefit of the additional damage, because the effect is never on the target long enough to do so. Unlike bleed you can not apply frost to a target again unless it is removed or eventually ticks down after a period of time.
This video is specifically meant to compare the large burst of damage you get on the target when you applied either of these effects. Looking at the in any other way they are not really comparable because they do different things. Bleed just cause damage to a target based on its total HP. Frost causes damage based on HP, if left on the target if it is another person slows their stamina regen and on all targets reduces their resistances causing them to take more damage. Looking at all those factors is kinda like comparing apples to onions.
Hope this clears things up a bit for those who did not understand the purpose of the video. Sorry I was not more clear about this.
Great break down, continuously proc frost = 10% of enemy health bar where as bleed is much larger.
*reap ftfy
That's kind of why you shouldn't immediately remove the frost. Also, with equal upgrades, and equal stat investment, frost weapons do more damage (split int/physical stat, magic/physical). Blood infusion reduces the ar more significantly.
AR doesn't matter for status effects. Bleed builds faster the higher the Arcane, Frost with Intelligence. Using your Arcane build to test a Frost weapon is not comparing apples to apples
Bleed buildup only scales on weapons with arcane scaling and frost buildup doesn't scale at all. You get what you get.
@@zotaninoron3548 are you sure INT doesn't affect the Frost buildup score on a weapon (e.g. 104 for the CS the OP was using)? For Bleed I'm pretty sure the higher Arcane, the larger this bleed score (the faster the bleed proc)
@@MrEdmie I'm playing an int/dex melee character with 68 int and use frost infusions and frost weapons. For frost you get what you get. And bleed only goes up when the weapon gets arcane scaling like if you infuse it with blood or occult. Look at any katana with no arcane scaling and see how much blood buildup you get. Infuse it with occult with a bunch of arcane and see the difference.
@@MrEdmie yeah frost does not build up any faster it's coded in at a static amount specific to each source of frost.
Int only scales the magic damage frost infusion gives, not the buildup of the status. Not to say a frost build shouldn't invest in int to get the most dps they can. Quite the contrary.
Mixing elonara's poleblade with a cold infused twin blade gives you the bleed as well as the frost status plus elonara's poleblade has split fire damage so it automatically resets the frost buildup. I found that using the frost cloud ash of war very quickly applied frost and staggered then one jump attack would cause bleed and reset the frost counter. Very strong combo
Its mids my combo is better
The fire it's on the ash or does it work on normal hits?
eh I seppuko on my twins with blood detect boost, then frost on off hand
blood buildup 115 frost buildup 115
don't want the frost to restart easily cause every hit under frostbite is added damage
then they both alternate and proc, absolutely melts everything
Isn’t resetting the frost counter…. Well counterintuitive? The point of frost is supposed to add the 20% damage intake debuff but if you reset it, it’ll just be chunk damage like bleed and in which case, use bleed for most enemies.
What we really need is a helmet and talisman from DLC that increases damage when frost has been triggered.
I'm still using frost because 1 too many people use bleed and 2 I want to be the frost ronin
There are bosses who are immune to frostbite: *death bird, death rite bird, tibia mariner.*
But that's so few compared to bosses who are immune to bleed.
All bosses that van be soloed by lvl1 player with holy urns and patience.
And you don't need to fight those bosses either.
This doesn't talk about the real difference between bleed and frost. Bleed needs arcane investment to be in 100+ build up. Frost scales with nothing. If you have no arcane investment, your bleed build up will always be half of frost while frost can be splashed onto any build. Frost's AR scales with int but isn't needed for the status build up.
Frostbite also makes a target take extra damage from ALL attacks while active, and reduces a target's stamina recovery. So it may not do as much damage at onset, but has the potential to be just as deadly.
Of course, best solution is to use both! Especially if you set it up so the Frostbite procs first.
And I just like Frost because my witchy wifu gave me a nice sword as a wedding gift.
"Frost or bleed?"
Me: *with a cold scythe buffed to +15* both.
Bleed can continually proc where as frost has to be reset.
Also dragons take 20% more damage to frost.
I use Ranni's Moon, then frost spells to build frost, finish it off with stars of ruin
I'd like to make sure anybody who checks the comments knows that using fire to reset frost will immediately allow the next proc and that it doesn't effect the build up just the effect that comes after the proc which allows it to proc faster and also lowers the targets resistance back to normal as far as I know although it's possible it might not but I doubt that judging by how many hits I needed to proc it with fire and frost grossmessers
It seems blood overall is the better option, because you can further buff the damage with talisman, helmet, and more arcane stat.
You can do the exact same with frost, and frost also increases damage taken. Better to use one of both, inflict frostbite to increase damage taken by 20%, and proc your bleeds off that with the bonuses. Dont knwo why people keep insisting on one or the other and not just use both....
Hey cool comparison but you missed the most important part of frostbite in Elden Ring: it increases damage taken by a target by 20%.
Yes if you leave it on the target. But in this case we are looking specifically at adding and removing it as fast as possible.
Plus you can do that plus more with bleed, a mask and a talisman. I think the real advantage to frost over bleed is not having to put points in arcane. You can have a very viable mage with added melee effectiveness.
@@Firespark81 Ok fair enough, thanks for the reply. And I appreciate all the work you put in to make these informative videos!
@@jackdhammer Yeah you make some good points. I often co-op bosses with friends so as our resident sorcerer I always aim to freeze the boss so we can all do more damage together.
I've been running a dual grave scythe build with blood on one and frost the other. The scythes have such a high stat proc that bleed is applied really fast even with one of them having frost on. The constant bleeds with frost applied does alot of damage.
Frost is more utility for alternate damage. It's a debuff first and a damage dealer second. Bleed is just an over powered damage dealer first and that's it. And yes it was the buildup number difference that resulted in different number of attacks, lots of enemies have the same threshold of resistances especially bosses. They typically have the same numbers for all 4 statuses on the resistance section of the wiki, some have different numbers of resistances between a couple of the types but it's clear in this situation the resistances are all the same, considering its a dragon and another dragon I looked at had all the same. I still think frost is a better tool when equipped WITH bleed. Proc frost first for the 20% lower defense debuff then bleed away for 30 seconds before applying frost again. I personally prefer frost on builds that don't involve bleed as bleed is best utilized on arcane builds and I don't always put into that Stat.
You can always try to ad some points to frost to see will it be 14 hits.Doesn't matter if its a bit more than bleed, its just for you to see if your theory is right or if you are close to right
cant forget that frostbite also induces a stamina debuff!
I use both, occult nagakiba w seppuku in my off hand, and cold nagakiba with double slash in my main, youll need points in dex and arcane up as high as possible, 70 dex + millicent prosthesis + great rune buff makes it 80, with 75 arcane it also makes it 80 and then youll want like 40-50 intelligence, and the bleed will proc in like 3 hits and the frost in 4 hits back to back and it is absolutely devestating, use white mask, raptors black feathers, claw talisman, lord of bloods talisman, millicent prosthesis, rotting/winged sword insignia, and/or shard of alexander for double slash damage, thorny cracked tear for more damage. So what ive found so far with katanas at 50 strength, 80 dex, 80 arcane, and 48 intelligence is that they scale better and have higher AR with frost vs bleed/occult, at lower levels, for example with blood scaling, nagakiba is D in strength, B in dex, and D in arcane, so 50 str, 80 dex, 80 arcane is 230+366 =596. But with frost scaling D in strength, B in dex, and C in int i get 198+242=440 + (158+83 magic damage) =681 and thats with my int 32 levels lower than the arcane.
why not blood nagakiba instead of occult?
There are some other things to consider here, however. Frost seems to scale better than bleed (at least on some weapons). I have neglected any intellect in my build and went straight Dex/Arcane. My base int is only 10. Where my Arcane is 32. Blood scales with arcane and frost scales with int. With blood ash on my Godskin Peeler the total AR is only 379 compared to my frost ash which give it 479 AR. Both have the same build up of 119. This alone may not make up the difference of the bleed damage on the proc.. but it may on enemies with higher resistances. At any rate, not a bad idea to have one of each type so you can switch out on enemies immune to bleed. I think both are pretty well balance. Another consideration is enemies take 20% increased damage and reduced Stam regen when frosted. I think if you are wearing the talisman and helm that increase your damage when bleed procs, than the choice is clear. Otherwise, it's not so clear and more up to your preference.
i aint readin allat
interesting.
i was wondering if a cold godskin peeler could be combined with eleonoras poleblade build ( mostly dex/arcane, with a few points in faith for buffs or rotten breath )
since I dont want to level up int.
your comment helped me a lot😁
I feel like this is a very dumb debate since both status effects are very good and you pretty much make a build out of what ever status effect you feel like in the game and you talked about blood build having enemy’s that have resistances to them the issue with that is if you put on occult for those weapons it makes blood build better over all because it makes you do a lot more dmg but proc blood a little bit less plus you can power stance with seppuku and with this build I was able to proc blood loss with every attack
If you don't reset the frost you get an extra 20% damage per hit
I made a Castlevania build using 2 x Hoslow's petal whips with hoarfrost ash and raptor ash applying frost (105) and poison (107) types as an additive to the whips natural bleed (110). In conjunction with talismans and the whips natural unparryable and shield ignore mechanics along with proper str, dex, int and arc balance scaling...these things are ruthless using the LB combo.
Frost bite build base on magic I believe, maybe with some right talisman it will do more damage. Haven't tasted, not 100% sure
Kinda like grease v enchant. I assume bleed is much better early when stats and damage are low. Then that 20% at higher outputs should be better most of the time.
Frost scales with INT while Bleed with ARC, to proper test it you would need to respec
i see frost as an health loss build up, but also damage focused debuff, while bleed is just focused in health loss build up. It really depends in what weapons you apply them and what is your objective
Lovely video
So, heres a WILD idea, why instead of saying Bleed OR Frost, por que no los dos!?. Use both, building up the bloodloss and frostbite, then once the frostbite procs and gives you the 30 seconds of 20% extra damage, you can proc off 2 or maybe 3 hemorrhages in that time, all benefitting from the bonus.
Let alone the fact that as already stated, some bosses cannot be bled, this immediately makes the frostbite weapon more valuable, as the 20% bonus to damage at least somewhat makes up for the fact that you cannot bleed them.
This game is alot to learn that's for sure, after watching many videos I guess it just comes down to what best suits your build ... bleed is good, seems to the best .. however it's not for me .. frost and with holy is what I'm using atm
That's why I use a bleed sword at a Frost Ash of war
It'd be cool if in future DLC we get a merging of bleed and frostbite as a weapon buff and or spells. Of course by that point both status effects will most likely be nerfed, but just imagine frozen blood as a theme, like a callback to Cainhurst
Nice approach. Hoping frost gets some items to buff it in future patches / dlc. Would like to see frost used more, but it's hard to convince people to put down the bleed crutch.
My last built was dual nagakiba one frost and one bleed and it was pretty kracked. After making that build I was like why haven’t I used this the whole time.
Is that actually stronger than just going for one or the other?
Is it actually better than just using double sepukku bleed?
@@marinmarinhola Probably not but then you have to double sepukku which is annoying
imo bleed is better if the lord blood talisman/white mask equipped for more damage on when the target is bleeding. and frost is good if you're saving slot for other useful talisman/head piece as it already giving you more damage to the enemy. but overall bleed just give more damage if you're taking advantage of combination of white mask+lord blood talisman+claw talisman+black feather or whatever that armor name is
Also I’ve only played for like 3 months but from what I’ve learned is some enemies have different amounts of resistance to bleed vs rot vs frost etc… but he could be right grayol might ave the same resistances acrosss the board
I run with the claws that have frost and bleed on them. They seem to work nicely for my mage
Another issue is the viability of the build. Chilling mist is out for an incredibly short 15 seconds as opposed to most other buffs which last a minute or more. So hard to manage it during a fight and not worth applying to powerstanced weapons. I realize this test was intended for a very specific purpose and succeeded at it. But, not only did bleed win based on the statistics, but it’s also way more practical. Even if there is a debuff of 20% if chilling mist should actually last long enough to apply it (a frost infused Clayman with high int might be better).
Please revisit this for the dlc. I am torn between frost and bleed for the Milady. I'm currently lvl 300 or so, in Ng+2, and am running 2 Milady's, one of each.
I just use dual uchigatanas with frost on both and get bleed and frost proc. It’s only 38 bleed but it still works quite well for me. Not to mention they shred through Malenia. Hehe
Why choose just use both
Fr
Cold uchi gang
Similar consenpts with different scalings, totally use frost with magic spells
I think you should test the best bleed build vs the best frost build. Or just good/solid builds. Then you can say which one is better. The pro of a frost build is that you can use almost any weapon, because 60str/60dex/50int would give the most AR and that 60/60 is nice for strength and Dex weapons. With a bleed build you are bound to Dex or bleed weapons- depending if you go blood or occult infusion.
It doesn't make sense to have an entire build revolving around just frost buildup in the first place.
Frost simply is worse in numbers, except for enemies that are very resistant to bleed or even immune. Period.
Frost's advantage is the thing that people that do "frost builds" cancel out: the +20% damage taken debuff. Ironically that one is awesome for a bleed build. I guess then it would be a hybrid frost/bleed build though. You'd apply frostbite asap and switch to pure bleed weapons. It's kinda like wearing a 2nd White Mask, just so that the damage buff also applies to the bleed procs.
At the end of the day frost is supplemental.
That should also explain why it's associated with int. All the sorceries deal 20% extra damage then.
Frost isn't all about damage. It's mostly useful for the utility.
I’ve been using poison builds for about a month and honestly it just destroyed everything even in pvp bleed builds don’t stand a chance if done properly. I did frost my first play thru and really if your like me and on ng+3 then your best bet is poison or bleed.
So no one brings poison removal because they expect bleed is what you are telling me. lol
I have 2 uchigatana one poison and bleed other frost and bleed.
we can get 2 status effect on 1 weapon?? HOW?
@@habub500 I’m pretty sure you just use an ash of war that adds the status such as poison mist, but select a different status affinity for the weapon. Using that method you can get 3 statuses on the Antspur Rapier. In the case of the Uchigatana’s you just need to add either frost or poison affinity and that will just be added on top of the natural blood loss. It works that way for every standard smithing stone weapon with native bleed.
Very interesting video! Thanks for this. Something fun that I've been playing with (as others have mentioned in comments too) is a bleed + frost build. I would be curious to see a video about how bleed damage works after frostbite occurs. So for instance would it be more effective to run full bleed, run bleed+frost and NOT reset frostbite using fire or run bleed+frost with fire's deadly sin and keep resetting frostbite. Anyway, awesome video and thanks for your time and effort on this!
I had a weapon that head bleed build up that I put a frost atunment on. Worked pretty well
Astel Naturalborn of the Void is immune to frostbite, as is Blaidd. Not sure if any others, but as I’m also doing a frost build with Death’s Poker i know those two are for sure! Used Wing of Astel to beat Astel for the damage bonus, but Blaidd still giving me trouble
the space worm at mt gelmir on the top of the mountain just before volcano manor can't bleed or be frostbitten
Mohg The Omen is actually completely immune to all status
Its does seem like more enemies are susceptible to frost than bleed though. I wonder what the actual numbers are?
What I take away from this is that I should apply frost first then bleed.
Mixing both is actually more effective. While sure being pure bleed you stack bleed quick. However it's only that one stack itself. Mix it with frost. You literally chunk health. If you want your frost to quickly stack, upgrade your intelligence. If you want bleed to stack faster, increase your arcane.
Intelligence doesn't increase frost buildup. Frost status effect on the weapon can't be increased by leveling attributes.
There are definitely frost immune enemies. I think death birds are frost immune.
there are also bleed immune enemies
@@MrSuvvri death birds are also immune from bleed. I personally prefer frost because while it’s in effect enemies take more damage. I also usually use weapons with both bleed and frost so that I can proc both statuses and it diversifies my status effects so that the same weapon will be useful on more enemies.
Just the video I was going to search for. Thanks
For raw damage output... yeah, blood is probably optimal; lightning/frost is more versatile and scales from dex
Dragon weapons are great too ;)
since when does frost scale from dex
Bleed is around 10% of max hp and frost is around 5% but I believe the bleed vs frost is really depens on your build one example is using Eleonora poleblade +another twin blade with chilling mist and every jump will trigger the frost while Eleonora would both reset it and build up that bleed bar so you can enjoy a nice int/arcane build there that would prock more frost to stagger the enemy constantly and its really fun
Disappointing that chilling mist only lasts 15 secs. Other buffs last way longer.
@@Galaka100 yeah i wish it was longer aswell
Its entirely build dependent no? Like regardless I still favor applying frost affinity to weapons that have bleed innate on it. 20% debuff really helps your spells hit harder once youve applied it.
Well yea there is no wrong way to play and its what ever you find fun. This video was just for my own curiosity. But if I'm going to do the work why not make a video about it. This is the way. When it comes to the life of a content creator anyway lol
as many times as I try to do something other than blood
blood just works better
I had trouble with Radagon on my bleed build due to him being immune to bleed though..
Other physical and magic builds gave me a tough time getting enough dmg in.
So in that case frost / fire builds could work well. For everything else, yeah bleed is really strong,
I feel like for a fair comparison you shouldn't have equipped extra gear for the bleed build to have it have the same damage, after all the infusions always lower the damage for bleed weapons and raise it for frost weapons so that should be part of the comparison and not negated.
Also the differences are alot more complex than your experiment showcases, generally speaking bleed is better on fast weapons while frost is better on strong weapons...for frost it's not about applying, removing and reapplying (unless you're using fast weapons maybe...I guess).
My dual frost golem halberds have an AR of about 900 each without any buffs/talisman, it takes two to three L1s to apply frost and then for 30s you do 20% more damage, in those 30s the blood weapon will build up resistance by applying bleed at least once or twice...in other words unless you're playing very passive you almost never proc frost more than three times against one boss whereas for blood builds you can expect to hit the resitance cap much earlier.
And lastly the giant dragon imo is a very bad comparison tool because it favors blood to an extreme degree...the dragon is only about the status procs while for the rest of the game the weapon damage usually also plays a role by itself (for frost at least, less so for bleed).
I think the main thing that makes bleed the meta playstyle is because it has dex weapons like Rivers of Blood and Eleanors Twinblade with op weapon ashes plus seppuku as an op ash for any weapon...if str builds and collosal weapons were meta then frost would also look better against bleed
I play a frost knight character and I love it when fighting a boss I start with ranni dark moon and go with with adulas moonblade or icecraig I get frost off so quickly
I've just done a frost build and it was kinda cool (pun intended) to turn the Fire Giant a nice frosty white :)
When frost bite is active on an enemy it last for 30 s so think that the timer must run out for frost bite to prock again .
Arcane/int would impact this though yes?
Why not power stance bleed and frost weapons?
Weapon scaling. If you run an arcane build, bleed is better, if you run an intelligence build, frost will be better. But between the two, bleed is much stronger as far as damage goes.
@@sdunned7842 But not everything can bleed in this game.
Besides, frost status causes extra damage, which should match bleed's overall damage.
99 in both stats ez
@@Hatemx1 yea, just as far as running both, you'll get more damage running one or the other. Although if you can get a weapon that already has bleed on it, its like a nice little passive to combine with frost. But bleed builds right now are just much stronger. They need to be nerfed. Dudes are like 3 shotting bosses with it.
@@sdunned7842 But isn't the majority of bosses immune to it?
it's a cool comparison although you had to invest 65 points into arkane to get those boosted damage results for bleeding. you don't need that for frostbite. so it's frost vs bleed for that specific build I guess...
Why didn't you include that frost makes the boss or dog take 50% more damage, so wouldn't that extra balance out with extra damage from normal hits
That's what I was waiting for him to show. But he always reset it and tried to reproc. I prefer frost for the defense debuf for the enemies, and he doesn't talk about it at all
It's 20%
It's 20% and frostbite does 10% max hp dmg + 30 dmg, compared to bleeds 15% max hp dmg+ 100 or 200 dmg. With that debuff it wouldn't make that much of a difference.
because you are removing it right away. So you do not benefit from that extra damage. To get that you would have to leave it on. Which if you are doing that you cant compare it to bleed. This video is specifically comparing it to using it like bleed.
@@Firespark81 so you prefer to compare bleed in its best case scenario to frost in scenario that its in its weekest. Of course frost will loose. Its ment to boost your damage so if you have 500 AR then with frost you have efectivly 600 AR after bleed proc. That's huge differance. On bosses with giant health pull bleed is better for sure but in pvp i think frost wins
I don't feel like watching an 8 minute video. What's better, bleed or cold?
Bro you make some quite nice Elden ring build vids, taught me a lot about the game I didn't know, so thanks
DK if you knew but I think there is a Golden order inc that removes all buffs [and maybe debuffs] so testing on dragon could be better? [i think]
why not both?
Im rolling w both. Cold Uchi and the rivers of blood
@@btnhstillfire love it, dude. dual cold uchis work too. I mean the amount of procs you get is insane.
@@btnhstillfire or you could infuse two scavengers swords.. one with bleed one with frost. The frost doesn't scale with anything and is 105 rating and the bleed will be 108 or something with 50 arcane.
Thanks for telling me
Here i was thinking you went on a hiatus... turns out youtube unsubscribed me from your channel so I stopped getting notifications. Looks like I have some catching up to do
They are stronger together.
@firespark81 did you take into consideration the time to proc might be wavering depending how fast your strikes are? (ie. a faster combo builds up an invisible bar more continually) I have some testing that supports the amount of hits don't determine anything but player posture... and even that goes off an invisible bar... player Super Armor might be a better example than player posture...
I'm curious which is better Fire or Spark?🙃
The difference is 81.
Doesnt keeping the frost proc on the enemy lower its def? Bleed cold should be together on long fights.
yes it does thats why I played a bleed + frost katana and another bleed katana
it slows stamina regen which is good for sure
In pvp all the heavy armor have high bleed resistance while not having so great frost resistance. The best shields have 100% physical absortion, so bleed weapons cannot deal damage to a shield hugger, while a cold weapons can with its magic damage. Also, no decent player is gonna let you bleed him multiple times, so the frost is better because the damage increase makes a difference instead of a second build up that never gets to proc.
Great video!
I will not watch it but will give a like ,because bleed is the best in like every way,even if they nerf it to 5 % it will still be good,unless its like 2% it will always out do anything,except maybe 2 colloasal sword with cold affinity (watchdog sword and guts sword)
Thoughts on dual Godskin Peelers vs dual Bandit's Curved Swords?
Dual scavenger curved swords are better. You can set them to occult affinity to scale with arcane and still have 89 bleed build up
First! nice job on these vids dude.
big bosses: proc frost, and swap that sword over to a bleed after that
One weapon with frost and another with fire is better then bleed In my opinion
Bleed > Frost. It can proc'd multiple times.
Why not both. For example Cross-Naginata Spear(has bleed) with Ashes of War: Ice Spear
You can totally do that best of both worlds
Doing so will make the blood bleed up so slow (around 35?) which is very low if ur target is to bleed enemies since it’ll take so many hits to proc and with such low build up. Only way this “might” work well is if u solely spam weapon arts that have many hits such as repeating thrusts AoW.
Frost is better because there are no bosses (that I know of) that are immune to frost nor are there any bosses that have high resistance to it. All bosses have an average resistance to frost except for the erdtree avatar I believe.
There are Alot of bosses highly resistant to bleed and there are bosses immune to it... Like radagon and elden beast. A few bosses are weak to bleed also.
I would rather use frost though. It is more dependable across the board.
Edit: btw bleed status effect scales with arcane while frost status effect doesn't scale with anything. There wasn't any difference between 7 and 60 arcane when it came to frost since I just checked today.
its scales with int. but yeah i agree frost is better in general frost is better, as it also applies a debuff to enemies were they take more damage.
@@octin6023 percentage of dmg increase?
I can give you a tip that yall will understand is frost build can build up with mage spell and bleed build only do for buff. And frost if you know the true build is then frost may kick you faster than bleed.. if u want test. Just text me. I'm build frost at elden beast name Elden lord 2nd
Thanks
If you have 80 in Arcane it will only take 1-2 hits for bleed.
Im sure that would apply to frost as well. But does frost have any things to help boost it like bleed does? And there are soooooo many weapons out their with bleed already on them, not so much with frost.
Great video
What if you put frost on a bleed weapon? I have a bleed and frost weapon and was wondering if they cancel out each other?
They stack. Everything stacks in elden.
I will get my seccond SCAVENGER'S CURVED SWORD to make frost/bleed hybrid frost build up is 105 when bleed is low as 38, scale on dex,st C and B for int, will go full 80 int and 40/40 for other 2, I am lvl 234 right now.
Going hybrid will do insane damage without buffs
7 hits? Makes me think this test isn't really a good way to decide what's better frost or bleed... Bc no one who actually runs a bleed build takes 7 hits to bleed someone
......
Exactly. My bleed build takes 3 hits maximum
So I haven't tested it yet but could the ash of war from the red giants braid reset frost?
The braid itself will as it deals fire damage irrc
Sewer mohg is not susceptible to any status effect don't oversell frost. I know it's good versus malenia but it is not OP in any way. Also frost infusion does not benefit from jump attack damage increasers like claw talisman and raptors feathers so if you are making a jump attack build magic might be the way to go. As with everything it has it's tradeoffs.
tibia mariners are immune to frost and bleed and poison
Gee its almost like they arent... even physical beings?
Shocker...
What frost scale with?
Intelligence usually if you are running a cold affinity on a weapon, it changes the scaling to Intelligence and adds magic damage however I think arcane effects all status buildups but I could he wrong on that. But if you make a weapon cold affinity it changes that weapon scaling to Intelligence so your damage will come more from that but I think the buildup number is up to the arcane Stat if I'm right on my thoughts.
It is a bit of a late reply, but from what I gathered
Arcane stat plus a Blood infusion makes the bleeds happen faster and stronger.
Frosbite doesn't scale with anything. The INT stat just increases the magic damage of the weapon, but the status effect will happen for the same value and the same amount of time no matter what stats you invest in.
Hope it helps someone who reads this later.
@@i_inf0din254your wrong frost doesn't scale with any stat
@@WraithzGaming it changes the scaling to strength and intelligence mostly. With a little Dex.
@@i_inf0din254 yes but frost doesn't proc faster with high arc frostbite it the black sheep of the statues it does scale or proc with any of the stats
Your examination of these to abilities is based off the false assumption that people shouldn't use the Mimic Tear. If you and others like you actually included the full range of options players have bleed would rarely come up over what you can accomplish with the summon. Spear of Gransax puts both of those elements to shame.
Why not frot bleed and poison in one
and rot, throw that on there as well. And burn. All 5 at once.
After beating the game 36 times. Bleed is far superior and the easiest play through. Throw frost or bleed on a weak weapon for an entire play through (fists or a club), you will see the difference. Frost will only help if your weapon also does large damage to get value out of your frost debuff… where as a no upgrade bleed club will still do its % damage according to the enemies health bar regardless of its upgrade level or your stats. Level 1 club I can hit that dragon for 13k damage 6-8 times, and he’s done.. can’t do that with frost.
Also you will run into more bosses that are frost resistant versus bleed resistant, vastly reducing any “damage debuff” you might think your frost is doing.
36 times cmon man
I'm 100 hours in and I've only got one great rune! I think I'm missing everything trying to see everything.
36 times though!!!??!! I don't know if I'm in awe of you or what.....wow.
Well.. if you've beaten the game that many times you probably already know that elden beast and radagon are immune to bleed, and malikath is highly resistant to bleed, kinda a big deal. No required bosses are immune or highly resistant to frost.
Bleed is kinda boring, frost is more fun to use.
I agree. It kills too fast and you can’t enjoy the PvP battle.
Ok