Hi Legend i think i would be a great idea if you redo your old warhammer 2 roster tier lists, because a lot changed in warhammer 3,some units are better and some are worse
Beastman are most fun faction to play, IMHO. because you don't need to hold a land to build an empire. opposite. if you keep your enemy well and strong, you get more money in long term by erasing their armies. razing settlements are not worth it. you have to play like a filantrop keeping your enemy alive and well. and also like a parasite. you take from your host little by little to keep it alive. i enjoy Beastman so much that i haven't played other factions since new year now.
also,... do you still accept 'rate my doomstack' save files? and i also have an ambush battle with Morghur on that bugged map in High Evle Doughnut. they didn't fix the bug with this new patch. it is like you said it will be. you just have to place Morghur in the center of the map. and wait for enemy to die out in less than 10 minutes. and funny thing is :) your enemy can not spawn into that map, but Morghur's chaos spawn mechanic can lol chaos spawn just jump out from nowhere. and enemy start using magic on it. funny stuff...
I’ve always thought that the lizardmen needed a unique type of untainted that would increase with the geomantic web. It would be the jungle growing around their settlements and act sort of like vampire count’s attrition upon high corruption. It would give the lizards a better thing to work towards imo
There needs to be a "reforestation mechanic" Wood elves would also be a prime candidate. And when it reaches 100 "forest corruption" they could maybe transform the main settlement of a region into a tree settlement. And for lizzardmen ofc other mechanics as well.
yeah. maybe give some boosts too, like increased ambush chance, and negating rampage, and at higher levels a small passive healing buff in regions with high geomantic web. or extra winds of magic. or increased winds of magic regen...
Dude I rly like that idea of special untainted. Also thought lizardmen should have a similar mechanic to TKs mortuary cult, since lizardmen are just so packed in terms of powerful artifacts in the lore. Maybe even a sort of mechanic related to recovering lost temple cities.
Khalida into Khemri maybe, but not serving is kind of Settra's thing, and Khatep's banishment is absolute, to the point that when he returned with knowledge that tilted the early End times in the favor of order, Settra still executed him for returning to Nehekhara. Not to say that lore should dictate all gameplay decisions, but in this case it definitely would feel off from a lore perspective to have most Tomb Kings confederating.
@@benfisher961 frankly feel like it shouldn't be assumed that every faction can confederate. Some races just play nicer amongst themselves than others, and some have built in reasons to work together (Orcs respecting strength and Skavens cowardly/scheming nature). But for others cooperation should be off the table: the tomb kings being one of them.
One thing I have always been asking for for the lizardmen, is when you have a tier 5 geomantic web building, you can teleport an army anywhere within your borders or up to one layline outside of your territory. If they want us to care so much about it, then it needs something to make it worth while, making it part of an ever expanding webway for the lizardmen would be excellent.
I second this. The Geomantic Web needs to be a big deal, more than just "Your commandments suck until they don't, but only in the places where it doesn't matter." They need to be special! It's such an expensive building for no fucking reason.
@@aeldariambitions6334 I don't remember the cost but it does provide an increase to income from the building itself. Teleportation would probably work pretty well since it would cut out travel time in built up settlements. means you wouldn't be able to jump to the frontline immediately so doesn't seem overpowered.
@@travisspicer5514 Frankly better mobility needs to just he a thing. Playing as Oxyotl or Belakor, or a faction with easy access to sea lanes is such a better experience than playing literally anything else
Make them easier to build; but takes longer with each one built. Give each faction general and unique options; which direct the great plan based on Geometric Web strength; that can influence AI behavior. From easier confederation, combat abilities, summoning armies that auto-defend Web Connections that tiers off settlements and tier of web. I feel like you being the architect of The Great Plan would be awesome
At the very least a huge increase to movement speed in any province that increases as the web scales up. So if you have 40 level 5 provinces all linked up, then you get a massive increase to speed all along that web, like 300%.
My biggest feelbad thing with the empire campaign mechanics is that sometimes the ai just slaughters some elector counts before you can even get the rebels killed and it just tanks your authority which is rather annoying at times.
Yeah In general I think the immortal empires map is too cluttered and active. I think some kind of optional difficulty setting that will remove some legendary lords from the map could really help someone factions like the empire feel more fun for players who aren't looking for a super challenging campaign.
Idk I did kinda like the fact your at a constant struggle with the counts and festus and the orcs, it kinda feels right for the empire to be like that as thats kind of your job is to reunite it all. But its just that their unit roster is so 1 dimensional even just more different units, couple of more elite melee units or archer units idk anything man and as legend said the authority system is just too random and useless late game.
@@TheGlenn8 Even better, give us the option to confederate or make "super factions". So if you and the squad wanted to play a challenging campaign you could make it so that all the chaos factions are confederated together or something like that. It would be even cooler if they gave us the tools to say confederate Festus into Nurgle and give his empire provinces to Hochland right at the start of the campaign, so you can play around and essentially customize your own campaign. I think that's the ultimate dream for me at least, and would essentially mean infinite replay-abilty.
Only problem with Kislev for me is Devotion- after a certain point in the campaign you don't really need it or need to worry about it as you will always have enough to do your invocation. What could make it more interesting is if you could unlock an ability to do multiple invocations of the motherland at once, or buy units with devotion. This would also help with campaign difficulty by giving kislev more tools to deal with enemies with.
This. You're swimming in devotion by the mid-game, and have nothing to spend it on. Even the invocations seem lackluster because really it feels like you always want the "big money, bonus bear" Dazh invocation up at all times. Beefing up Ursun to have more attrition that went through raid/encamp stance, or a scorched-earth province edict to take the pressure of constant spam off of you might make Kislev more manageable.
19:15 Someone proposed a mechanic on another video that it should be possible to confederate Settra, but if that happens your faction changes to Khemri and Settra becomes the new faction leader (basically switching your campaign from a Khalida/Arkhan/Khatep campaign to a Settra campaign). 20:50 The Vampire Coast should have a confederation mechanic that works differently than the other confederations. It should work around the infamy mechanic - becoming such an infamous pirate that the others are so impressed that they want to join you. The infamy system should be a bit more active with rewarding particularly difficult raids and stuff like that. Maybe a confederation dilemma could be triggered when you have double the infamy of another legendary lord or something along those lines. 21:49 I actually enjoy the Glory system. I think what this faction lacks is more interaction with other Chaos factions.
@@Sletchman yea black arks are so good vs vampire coast, I really feel their legendary lords should just have unique black arks you can build up vs being some odd horde you bring on land.
Cathay does kinda need something that turns the Kurgans off in the late game. Maybe a monument you can build at somewhere like Fortress of Eyes that reduces threat by another 3% so you can do that plus the three gate commandments to get to 0%.
I think a monument sounds good and I would definetely like to see that. Although I think Markus Wulfheart has paved a way for even better way to resolve this. Currently, if Markus subdues Lustria, the random attacks on his faction stop. I think something similar could be made for Cathay, lets say if you control the gates and venture out to the Chaos Waste to destroy Yusaks, Khazags and Villitch. Maybe then by capturing Villitch's Red Fortress and having full control over those regions + bastion gates, you could stop the Kurgans.
@@faxiahoudun4845 Trouble is that Cathay can do that too fast, at least Miao Ying can. Beeline him and you can have Vilitch dead by turn 12 or so* and past that no further resistance until you hit Kholek and Grimgor. It needs to be something that takes a little more time. A tier 3-4 monument would be about right given the growth rates you get in red territory as Cathay (because your compass effects only work in Cathay itself). *Recruit a second stack of peasants plus Gotrek to go after Eshin and send dragon mommy after Vilitch, easy life.
I wouldn't mind seeing a system for WoC where each champion can confederate their respected patron god's lord. e.g. Vilitch confederating Kairos and vice versa. Maybe it could be introduced as a special event in campaigns since their starting locations are pretty far apart?
Confederations are fun, there should be more confederations in general, even if it does go against the Lore. Lore is good and has a part to play in the game, but more fun things to do in a game like this is better, in my opinion anyway.
Honestly, I've just enjoyed keeping Recruit Defeated Legendary Lords on. It results in some funny things sometimes and kinda like "breaks" some of the WoC Lords, getting Azazel with only Nurgle units moment, but it's still really fun, way more fun than not having it. That and just ripping out habitability by the root makes for a lot of really interesting scenarios if you have the desire. Also shoots Belakor up to just being like the definitive way to play Chaos
And how would you go about confederating *different races* hmm? You might as well try and confederate Empire with Bretonnia or dwarves and chaos dwarves. Vilitch in that example is warriors of chaos with some extra Tzeentch stuff. Kairos is daemons of chaos-Tzeentch. Different races, different cultures, different (even if somewhat overlapping) rosters, different special mechanics, different most everything. You'd like to basically rework the campaign system and make it more cumbersome, more complicated, more buggy for merely an option to fuse different races and make your own life more difficult? Just make vassalizing option and be done with it.
I think a good idea for a Dark Elf rework, at least for Malekith personally, would be a mechanic revolving around conquering Ulthuan and killing off High Elf factions. Malekith’s main focus in Warhammer Fantasy lore was to claim his birthright as Phoenix King of Ulthuan. I have no experience in game design so I don’t know what benefits or utilities that Malekith could obtain from conquering Ulthuan. Maybe when he takes a High Elf settlement, he unlocks High Elf units that are capped like the Beastmen or Tomb Kings, but the more High Elf settlements he conquers, the more units he can recruit. Another mechanic revolving around conquering Ulthuan could be the ability to turn High Elf factions into vassals/allies, with High Elf faction leaders being terrified of the Witch King’s wrath and wanting to stay on his good side with each settlement he claims/the closer he gets to the capital city Lothern. Obviously High Elf legendary lords like Tyrion, Teclis, Alarielle, etc would not submit to Malekith for lore reasons but minor High Elf factions would. Could even give Malekith a big final quest battle after he conquers so many settlements where all the High Elf legendary lords team up to stop him from taking Lothern and asserting dominance over Ulthuan once and for all, in the same vein as “The Fall of Man” quest battle where the Beastmen take on Karl Franz and Louen Leoncouer after destroying much of the Empire and Bretonnia.
If my memory serves there already is this. The Shrine of Asyurian or something has a unique building you can build as Malekith, that on completion, forces all High Elf factions into accepting a military alliance with you. Probably SHOULD have been Vassalization but, eh. Kinda weaksauce and not better than just killing them and taking the doughnut entirely for yourself, but...
I think what DEs need are some more different Lord mechanics. Malekith definitely wants to rule Ulthuan, but Lokhir f.e. prollly couldn't care less and mainly wants to sack, while Morathi wants to subjugate and Helebron wants to murder shit. Morathi could use the Slaanesh cults, Malekith should have a forceful subjugation mechanic that does something before he basically conquered the donut, while Helebron could use something like bloodletting where mass murder gives her other benefits. The fact that the slave rework now revolves more around holding territory is one of the things I really dislike about it, outside of Malekith the rest shouldn't really care about controlling territory. In a similar vein the roster overall feels a bit underwhelming and doesn't really click with each other. Imo you could either push it into different directions by strongly buffing outliers through LLs (Malekith standard infantry/BG, Helebron Khaine infantry, Malus COs) or specialize them more into roles (COs get AL-techs to counter cav, HGEs get a higher AI bonus, ...). On paper you have high tier heavy infantry, double shrine buffs and a heavy cav to enable a more aggressive heavy run-at-them-style in the vein of WoC/VC which imo is more in line with their faction, but it doesn't really work in TWWH compared to just spamming xbows because the former underperforms while the latter overperforms consistently.
@@iamdopeasfcuk But it forces them into an alliance regardless. I don't actually know how it works, I've never done it, but I've seen it happen ingame, have seen the building, and have heard other people talk about it
I feel like all game 3 factions need more unique units, especially Kislev and Cathay. I really like playing Kislev and the challenge of the early to mid game but my army composition never really changes from game to game: early game Kossar spam, then some light war sleds, then late game Ice Guard/War Bear riders. Chaos factions could all use some unique units as well, since a good portion of their rosters are shared. Tzeentch is one of my favorite campaigns but mechanic wise definitely feels lacking
I think Kislev especially could use some normal cannons. Like, ones that aren't being pulled by bears. It feels a little out of place that they just straight up only have cannons pulled by bears. It could do their army variety good if they just had a regular cannon and a mortar.
I agree completely. I'm annoyed at seeing people wanting more factions after the Chaos Dwarfs - My favorite faction is lizardmen (since before total war warhammer even) and going from playing a campaign with them to ANY of the game 3 factions (besides Belekor) feels like throwing out 90% of the diversity. For lizards you can go infantry spam, monster spam, you've got a few hybrid artillery units, multiple war hound style units, multiple flyer options, multiple magic options, etc. etc. For kislev you've got your bears and you're elite infantry late game.
They really need more Lord types and more importantly more Hero types. There are certain campaign and army actions that the Warhammer 3 factions straight up can not do, because they don't have heroes with those. Missing Block Army or Repenlish Troops is really frustrating
@the creator Comparing a finished race (lizardmen) with Kislev in game 3 that had no dlc, obviously is the problem here. We'll have to wait a few years to see that amount of variety for the war3 races granted chaos (except monogod ones) are ok now.
@@eewweeppkk yeah and I'm annoyed dogs of war don't exist. If rather had those then Kislev ore Cathay . Like cool you have your favorite but other's should be able to play there's too .
I don’t know if this is widely known but if u play clan eshin and take the floating city settlement and either let it revolt or use shadowy dealings to force a revolt the army it spawns is a Cathay caravan army and u can get massive amounts of gold and food really early on for them and snowball a campaign
For Tomb Kings I wish you could use the canopic jars to increase unit capacity like the beastmen so you have an option to play tall rather than forced to play wide.
1000% agree with your take on Bretonnia, Vampire Counts, and Dark Elves. They were all in my top 5 most enjoyed races in wh2 and their current state has heavily contributed towards the unenthusiastic sentiments I currently have towards the game.
I love Bretonnia, but they struggle so hard in Warhammer 3 they just get burned down so fast in Warhammer 3 you never get that satisfying snowball of confederating one at a time until you have this big power block like you did in game 2. Also the speed buffs for everyone else's cavalry has made them lackluster, they need something to stand out. Also the AI army compositions need improved because they constantly run awful peasant crap stacks.
One thing that would help Bretonnia for sure would be the promotion system that Chaos has, allowing you to see those knights that have been with your legendary lords since the beginning growing alongside them. Also being able to switch peasant arrows between battles would be nice.
Bretonnian are just so bad. There always seems to be something that restricts you or piss you off. Terrible infantry, Terrible replenish rate and the water system make no sense and infuriates me. Pushing into attrition area, uninhabitable area or plague just wrecks you. I understand you are suppose to merge units instead of replenishing as Bret, but still doesn't change that it will slow you down. Best thing about them is their diplomacy and grail knights. Wish their cavalry overall were much stronger
I've played DEs a bit in SFO and imo they work better there. Not great and I still think SFO's take on WH2 eco is better than their take on WH3's eco model, but it feels like my elites are actually doing stuff and the faction differences are a bit more pronounced.
I totally annihilated Vlad's army multiple times and it came back FULL HEALTH ALL UNITS three turns in a row. I quit that campaign because in each three battles I did actually kill Vlad and destroyed all units. Vampire counts are insane right now.
Im so glad that you are willing to admit that a lot of factions are fine as they are. It’s so annoying to scroll through redit and UA-cam and everyone claim that everyone needs a rework 1 by 1 it’s what drives me crazy about watching GBOG cause he thinks everyone needs a rework.
I hope that eventually the geomantric web becomes a vital part of the lizardmen campaign. Imagine the geomantirc web being used in a defensive and offensive way while also having the passive buff, but only when not being utilized. You could use it to weaken the enemy settlements or lords in the territory. Or make a territory wide buff to ambush success chance. It would give some good touch ups to the lizard men
Vampire Counts have a weird relationship with things. I had endgame units before turn 15 with them in my latest campaign because Vlad managed to lure Gelt into an ambush and scored a large enough battlefield to get Terrorfiends and Blood Knights to replace the chaff I sacrificed to kill his army. So I've had an army that hasn't changed for 20 turns now and crushed all of the Empire factions without any issues because they were struggling to handle endgame units and a rapidly levelling Vlad and Isabella in even fights never mind when I managed to land an ambush.
They are the race that are build around the middle ages fantasy were practically every settlement had walls around them and then Bretonnia gets none... its pretty wierd.
@@marcpaulus6291 They're also the race that saved WH:FB from getting scrapped altogether. And are now the redheaded step child. The two biggest issues with the brets are how they made them all grimdark and how they never updated them.
The only improvements I want with the Ogres is a camp overhaul, like more camp limits, wider zones, being able to pack up and move the camp without demolishing it and starting fresh, and also Ogre armies should get a buff while in the camp radius and not a debuff when outside of it
I think Imperial Authority doesn’t need a major rework, it just needs some more controlled ways of increasing prestige reliably, and perhaps higher risks to Balance it out.
I think Skarbrand should be able to confed Valkia, and the same pairings for the others. maybe even in a two-way street, to make the faction feel more attached to their god
@@williammitchell6254 for taking the teachings of his god too far to the extreme. 'It matters not what blood flows, only that it flows' kinda... became a problem when he challenged khorne to a duel and managed to cut his god.
@@shadeblackwolf1508 No, the problem was that he did it from the back, instead of attacking from the front. He wouldn't have gotten bitchslapped so hard otherwise.
I have a suggestion for a video series that i know i would appreciate (dunno about others), basically one of my big struggles when playing a new faction is what army comps to go for. So i was thinking quick videos for each faction just going over good army comps for early-mid-late game. Of course can't go in to every detail, but it would be really helpful to have some direction and guidance on what to go for (which millitary buildings to just instantly get rid of and which ones to keep around)
Yeah that can be good. Some factions have really solid late game armies, like Lizardmen, but exactly what you're supposed to build around at lower tiers can be rough to learn just from flinging units at things. For them at least, my biggest tip is, unless playing Kroq-Gar and getting a discount, don't get more than a few units of Saurus. They're just too expensive and often don't perform very well in mass groups. You're better off using ranged Skinks to support two to four units of them, and getting the very nice tier 2 and 3 monsters and such until you can get better stuff, or have the economy to support bigger saurus blocks or start pressing the Stegadon button
General diplomacy could use a rework. in particular i'm looking at adding a "broker agreement" option, where you can forge agreements between factions depending on their relation to eachother and you. for example a non-agression between your allies.
High elves now can really deal their diplomatic stuff, like in lore. Want to attack some neutral faction for lands, but they have alliances with other? For example u want to kill belegar (which is lorefriendly of cos), but dont want to piss of with all empire - declare war on evil faction like sartosa, conquer some city and give it to belegar in cost of breaking alliance with reikland. And then another city in cost of breaking other relationships with empire - now, after dwarfs broke 2-4 agreements with karl, they will hate them. Wait some turn, prepare your armies positions and invade shortgrudgers. Reikland would agree that and u can deal some packs with empire as well. Of cos u can force that shit with your influence mechanic as well and take a shot in whole 3-5 turn without issues %)
@@shadeblackwolf1508 try to not establish defensive or even military alliances with culture that have non similar like u politics. I rarely do alliances at all lol)
One of the biggest issues that I have with most mechanics, and what frustrates me the most in campaign, is when I'm spending most of the campaign being reactionary instead of having agency. I'm not _doing_ stuff most of the time, I'm responding to what the AI does.
As a Lizardman main, sometimes I’ll go a hundred turns before I remember about the geomatic web. So your point about it being so passive it gets forgotten is spot on.
I would love an Ogre Kingdoms system where they get contract quest battles: Like they get to decide whether they take a contract from Stirland to fight a battle against Vlad and Isabella and gain an item or traits upon success as well as a Diplomacy boost.
I think Ogre Camps should be tied to lords like shipbuilding for the Vampire Coast instead of creating a new lord that can't really do anything. The whole point of a camp is that it's not permanent and so they should be able to be moved around.
Or maybe they could be like the Black Arks in that they have a unique lord with a unique kind of skill tree that works together with the camp itself. But maybe not _as_ mobile as that, I think they should be moveable but with a cost
Technically you can move a camps location you just get rid of the old one. I think its fair it can't be moved. That is part of the strategy. Would be pretty broken to move 1, or more than 1, tier 5 camp to the front where it can hold a stack of stonehorns for you at a reduced cost. Especially considering each camp increases factionwide income, if i remember correctly? Ogres late game should be pretty broken already.
I've had a similar thought since day 1 of playing Ogres. The camps should be moveable, but not every turn like a unit. Maybe every X turns you can that camp a normal movement amount. It takes X turns and its not available for units during that time, like an ogre caravan, where the camp disappears till it reaches it's target spot and then takes a turn to set back up. It feels bad to setup a camp, raid some areas and then take them over, and then later that camp is so far from where you'd want it. Sure, you get more later, but eventually you cap out and it just makes no sense lorewise that the camp is now permanently there. Maybe you can move them wherever (near a lord) but moving them sets their tier back one rank. I don't really care how they do the mechanics of it, but they need to be moveable a bit.
My biggest gripe with the Vampire Coast is that for the "seafaring faction" they feel remarkably land-based. It feels at times like The Blessed Dread are more of a naval faction then they are, and the Beastmen gameplay feels a lot more like what I'd have expected. I'd have liked the VC's to be kinda like Beastmen with Black Arks in that they attack a port, establish a temporary hold on it, sack the nearby lands, then pack up their stuff, cash-in the devastation and run off back to the sea to find someone else to harass. The idea of owning and defending a permanent land presence of any size feels a lot less like pirates and a lot more like just a regular country with a strong Navy, like the British Empire of 500 years ago. Or if we're being generous, like British/Spanish sponsored privateers that would govern an island or two or maybe a smol stretch of land. Actual pirates 400-500 years ago would be damn well lucky to just find a port that is "funny looking" enough that it would even be willing to sell them supplies and repairs and not just call the authorities on them! They definitely weren't going about conquering continents. Their problem isn't that their stuff is weak or bad, but that they're not nearly committed enough to their identity.
Norsca being in the ‘Feels Good’ seems insane at first being that they have never really been touched, but from the perspective that they got a pseudo-rework from the champions of chaos dlc is a hot but honest take
Nah, they were so deep in the shitehole that even with massive improvements they still need a rework, or at the very least a bloody bugfix, since their own faction mechanic doesn't work due to a notorious bug blocking progress with monster hunts. I understand Legend's reasoning but no, placing Norsca anywhere lower than "needs rework" was just idiotic.
I feel like all of the "Expedition" campaigns need work. Markus Wulfhart and Repanse Di Lyonesse worked AMAZINGLY well in WH2 Vortex because the map was huge in their general area and they were truly isolated. Teclis, Wulfhart, Alberic, Repanse, Grombindral, Boris Ursus, etc. All need more to their campaigns to make their expeditions feel more thematic. Alberic and Teclis in particular have basically NOTHING in their tech trees or game objectives to make their campaigns feel unique or different than if you were just playing a regular Tyrion/Louen campaign with a faction relocator mod. The Dark Elves just need a general rework and their expedition factions all need this same kind of attention as well.
I like Nurgle because you can make some ingenious use of plague cultists at times, and it's a character heavy faction (IE you really only need to micro one guy for a lot of fights). I also feel like it can build a stupid amount of momentum if it is able to fight humans (who lack early magic weapons + give plague spreading follower) and reach the research that grants population surplus. My biggest wish for Nurgle is for the cycles of the building to be buffed to such an extent that you ACTUALLY get value out of micromanaging which provinces has which commandment and spreading plagues in your territory. In my Nurgle campaign, I basically NEVER spread plagues offensively, the only value is for infecting your own settlements.
For Kislev, I feel like Kostaltyn would benefit from having the Ice Court training mechanic but for Patriarchs. + for all lords more usages for Devotion, like maybe recruiting better standard lords with some improved traits (like the High Elves have), or some specialized new units specific for each lord that also cost some devotion upon recruiting: something akin to Flagellants for Kostaltyn, Ice guards with snow leopard mounts (a new monstrous cavalry unit) for Katarin, Elemental Bears with a cannon strapped to its back for Boris (think Stegadons/Bastiladons). Just some ideas, not sure how lore friendly those are. At least the potential is limitless and I'm excited to see what future DLC-s could bring to the table.
Vampire counts should be able to resurrect strong units from decisive or heroic victories or valiant defeats only, to imply they are getting the best of the best from dead units.
One thing I absolutely love about Cathay is the caravan mechanic. Great way to keep their economy going and they always feel like mini-adventures/expeditions.
It would be cool if the geomantic web gave you insane recharge on your winds of magic or faster ability cool downs or something like that. It should be something that effects a battle so it's more important.
All human and elf factions need A LOT more character faces. ALL characters of the same type having the exact same face just doesn’t feel right and at some point it absolutely ruins the immersion. Rome 2 and Attila with their 5-6 face types per character already had that clone wars feel about them and here in WH it’s through the roof.
Maybe Tzeentch just needs some extra steps to his cheats. Think a mechanic where you assemble objectives into a grand master plan - the bigger the objectives, the better the plan. Like, if you make a plan where you win X battles, improve relations with Y faction, and recruit Z units, you can unlock a use of a Changing of the Ways effect. Kind of like a version of Bretonnia's Vows that you build yourself.
Warhammer3 massively improved Malus' mechanics and position. Slaves were boring in 2, they are still boring in 3, but now require less management, which is good.
The vampire counts are in the biggest need of a rework. They are so annoying to play against. Unlike other factions you can’t run down their units after a battle to wipe them out, it’s pure luck whether they are or not. Fighting an army that is primarily made up of high tier monsters and infantry, barely winning and then seeing all those high tier units survive and replenish to full next turn just isn’t fun. Lords can survive this way too which makes it all the worse
WH3 Dark Elves really got hurt by the slave rework. I don't understand why they took a fine (albeit cheesy) system and made it so static. Sure, the object of the game was to specialize your provinces but you were absolutely encouraged to fight to drastically and temporarily boost your economy. Now getting slaves feels like it doesn't even matter and the whole fantasy of 'war machine that falls apart without war' is wholly gone.
With this kind of tierlist you really give insights also to casual players like myself. What can we expect from the factions when we play it, and possible changes or reworks if CA does address it. Thanks!
With the empire one thing that annoyed me is that I could wipe out all of norsca, chaos, etc and I get nothing for it and I have to wait for some random pop up to appear just so I can get one authority
Have you seen the Dwarf Polearms mod? They have Ram Riders, they're brilliant and as much as Dawi are meant to be a stationary army I think they're too awesome not to be added 😄
I think you need to give nurgle another try legend. You’re wrong about their armies being weak nurgle armies are actually SUPER strong, it’s just that they’re so expensive to recruit. Maybe give them another try.
If the empire gets a rework I hope their units get some touch ups as well. I know the empire is meant to be a king at range and mediocre in melee but most armies just close the distance so quickly the artillery doesn’t matter much. Skaven can spawn units right on your artillery and so many factions can use some super spell to destroy artillery. Maybe buffing cavalry speed or infantry melee defense would be good
Here is my main problem with this tierlist. So, let me get this straight:the vampire counts, dark elves, and tzeench need a rework because their mechanics are too passive or only need to click to use their mechanics and they reach their potential too quickly, BUT the high elves, who you clearly said they were overpowered, who's unique mechanic is a passive that requires a click of button to use, DOESN'T need a rework? Instead, a race that already had its rework? At least the dark elves had to go out and fight people and even had to resist occupying a settlement and instead sack the settlement to buff up the slave economy. The high elves don't even need to fight to rack up large amounts of influence. They just need to either spam hero actions or spam noble and the other influence generating building. So why do those three need a rework but not the high elves?
I mostly agree about the Dark Elves, but I love Morathi. The slaanesh corruption benefits her faction so much, and the fact that her public order building also spreads corruption and gives you more Hags is *amazing*. I loved Dark Elves in II, and still love Morathi, though the other Lords definitely feel MUCH weaker than they were.
Thx dir the tier list. I think they are my favourite videos. Nearly never miss one of your videos but I think I’ve never missed or disliked your Tier list videos 😄 Thx for the content!
Bretonnia needs an update. This far it’s the most one dimensional faction in the game. It needs a couple of good units that are NOT melee cavalry. People are in denial about this one but it’s true all the same.
1000000000% agreed. "Sure it's archers are mid, it's infantry suck, it's arty is on the downside, it's in desperate need of lore of light, and there isn't enough variety to make gameplay less repetitive or vs human opponents less predictable... but it's the cav faction that's what they do" is something I've heard too much.
@@spiffygonzales5160 at this point I’m absolutely sure that people who say that don’t really play the faction very often. You have to work very hard to win most of your battles with only melee cav and it gets very tedious at times.
@@sarmatiancougar7556 Agreed. You can legit do hammer and anvil better with the empire. They have better missile cav, better infantry, and demigryphs STILL beat grail knights. Empire is a better cav faction than the literal cav faction
I think that the ogres could use the mercenary sistem of Total War Three Kingdoms so if you fight a faction could take extra benefits from other factions alredy at war with them. Basically you sign a contract and for every battle you recibe points and you could (thinking of something fresh) exchange for multiple rewards that depends with what race did you sign a contract. For example, you coukld obtain units, items, gold, faction buffs, heroes, etc. Another thing will be when you complete a contract you recibe a big reward, like unique items, 20 turns bonuses or something quite strong so it is intresting to fulfill this contracts and tunel vision that enemy
I rush the geo Web for the lizardmen cause the buffs do decent. They are passive they work well if do the according things to benefit like higher rank units recruiting when doing a mass recruit
Karl Franz in the trailer: We need to work together Whispers to Boris: We need these elves and dwarves, or we are completely screwed against WoC rework
Awesome video, my thinking for confederations has always been one of two things, for somebody like Setra it should be respect based, his whole thing is he’s meant to be the emperor and these people should essentially be at his beck and call, however given his empires fall to disgrace it should be built basically as he builds his own faction back up, other tomb kings are willing to vassalize and eventually confederate with you. Not exactly power bar but perhaps through building grand buildings and completing campaign objectives. Similar to how feudalism actually works, if you have this much power and influence and respect they’re willing to essentially give you their allegiance, once you become Setra the great again you can assume direct control. For other factions I’ve always felt like it should be quest based for legendary lords. If a lord is defeated you should have a timed quest to prepare for a battle, basically this lord and the last of his retinue versus a couple armies of whatever faction destroyed them, or perhaps their lore enemy. You win they’re yours to recruit, perhaps with their own unique little retinue that you rescued, 4-10 units ROR style. Like say the beast men destroy the Todd bringer’s home and he’s on the run, it makes sense that in desperation he’d send a message to the emperor basically pleading for help. You could thematically do this for all factions, for dwarves it would be a grudge set right mechanic, you go settle the grudge, retake the dwarf holds or rebuild the settlement and this dwarf is willing to serve you due to you setting right that grudge, chaos would be more like resurrecting them, somebody defeats their faction, you get a quest to go kill that army, and one of the post battle options is like A) take lots of money, B) take strong item, C) forgo other reward legendary lord is available to you. You could thematically do this to a lot of factions, and tweak their mechanics to make sense. I actually think archaon and belakor being the only confederators for chaos makes sense lore wise, but definitely should be a little more forgiving for others so they can have more lords and more fun. I think non-legendary factions should have more lore backed confederation mechanics, high elves diplomacy, orcs and norsca and chaos all sort of might/favor systems. It’s long frustrated me that a faction can be totally losing the war have no hope and even though we’re friendly and I offer to confederate and save their lives their answer is basically “give me 10 million dollars or I’d rather die.” It’s like if North Dakota was being invaded and South Dakota was like “hey we’ll come rescue you and then we can be one Dakota! Sounds awesome right?” And then north Dakota was just like “actually people we normally like, we’d rather be nuked than be just Dakota.” I can’t tell you how many high elf factions do that to me, we’re friendly,’trade agreement and all, and they are getting pummeled and they just go, “nah, give me freedom or give me death bud, I know Khorne is building the best chair ever out of all our skulls and you could save us, but I’ll be damned if I call Tyrion the Phoenix king.”
Tomb Kings are my most played race since they released and I think all they really need is an option to confederate the other TK LLs when you get 5 books and awaken the pyramid
I've always enjoyed my games as Kislev, the major problem with them is they need a more rounded roster, and the difficulty needs to be tuned down a bit (clan moulder in particular is very very difficult to deal with, and wipes out every other Kislev if ignored). However, if you enjoy the kind of campaign where you're under siege, Kislev is fun. I also think Kislev confederation should be easier, as there supposed to be a confederating race (like Bretonnia or Empire)
Man, I remember way back when I first got back into warhammer, the empire had just gotten their rework. I hadn’t played since warhammer 1 so I was very impressed with everything (not to mention flabbergasted by the fact that wh1 had just, y’know, left out half of the world of warhammer, it was my introduction to the series so i had no clue there was land west or south). But at that time the “unplayable” factions included the greenskins, the beastmen, chaos, the wood elves, and even the dwarfs. I’m so happy for them these days. So far we’ve come
Would love a series similar to the campaign reviews where you quickly guide the early game. What buildings to stay away from, which tech to go for and what units to recruit to get the ball rolling.
Good vid On woc confed i kinda think it should be more god based with the deamon factions, so kugath and festus for example The more distinctive monogod factions to me feel more like their own thing then warriors of chaos and its thematic
Imperial Authority has almost no benefits to keeping it high beyond not going negative. The Grimmhammer mod makes it so a massively positive Imperial Authority at least gives you some major buffs. But yeah, it sucks and I hate it. And Karl is my favourite character by far. Not to mention how hard it is now to even try to keep it up on higher difficulties. You gotta deal with Vlad, Kemmler, Khazrak, Durthu, Festus, Drycha, Wulfrik, Azhag, and Skrag. Did I miss anybody? Oh yeah, Grom even likes to come over for a fun time. And Belakor is a hop skip and a jump away.
My problem with Kislev is that for an anti-demon faction they absolutely suck at dealing with demons. They need some better units with armor piercing and magic attacks otherwise it just feels so bad fighting an immortal Valkia.
I think what Nurgle needs is a big economy buff and a plague rework, maybe something similar to Slaanesh and Khorne mechanics. What I mean by that is you could have some kind of an infection level on each factions (or province) that would go up by a bit for every region that suffers one of your plagues each turn and it would scale faster depending on how many different symptoms they suffer. Once a faction reaches 100% infection (and it would automatically go up to 100% if you somehow manage to apply all symptoms on a single faction at the same time, so you have a reason to not always spam the same plague), you can trigger an effect that would make a random one of their cities blow up (getting razed because its whole population would have died to the plague, with something like 15 turns CD) and spawn a powerful army that you could control but not replenish, from very small to no upkeep at all (depending on techs) similar to the blood hosts that Khorne has. The plagues also need to be more useful by default considering how weak they are compared to the Skaven plague...
It would be perfect if each dedicated chaos LL could confederate their demon faction legendary lord and vice versa, like Valkia confederating Skarbrand or Ku Gath confederating Festus. The only thing you could get like that is the faction leader but they could change the current faction leader of the confederated demon faction and give it to you as a vassal (or just destroy it and keep the lord, seems very natural for chaos)
I just played 3 races from "top" of this list and... i liked it. The races were (in order of playing) Bretonia as Repanse (Fast victory), Dark elves as Lokhir(Fast victory) and right after as Malus (Full victory + domination), and now im doing Vampire courts as Vlad (turn 33: 8 settlement before FV). All done at VH/VH difficulty and all of them was fun. The issues i had was not rooted to the faction mechanics but to some other things that make me not want to go for Long victory: 1) As Repanse the main issue was Thorek who cleared all the orks, left Skarbrand on 1 settlement and beat up clan Mors so there was nor natural enemies nor challenge for me; 2) As Lokhir the issue was the absence of Ind and "Indochina peninsula" so after FV there were nowhere to continue raiding and pillaging using Black Ark as a support; 3) As Malus there is no challenge in general, i fought 1st battle manually at turn 9 and it was his quest battle (which was still in south africa before todays patch). The only unit i was recruiting until i could lvl up my Black Ark to lvl 5 was dread spears. The Archaon was so weak that he ended up not crushing Kislev after 180 turns...The most fun i had when i swapped Malus in other army to hunt down Valkia and i had to win her almost 2 stacks of mid tier Khorne units just by Malus and caster (the rest of amy was again Dread spears); 4) As Vlad its just a speedrun campaign. You can expand as fast as Vlad's army can go. Its not as cumulative for economics as with Dark elves right now but can do the whole campaign without recruiting a single unit: just raise the dead. The more casualties you had last fight the better units you will raise next turn. And the best part: almost everybody on a map you hate you so you can expand in any direction! Well that is a bit subjective "positive" point but its part of the charm of Vampire courts campaign :)
Pretty much agree 100% with your ideas. Let's hope CA continues to listen to the community and continue improvements to the game and factions alongside new dlc.
I agree with most of the list tho personally i quite enjoy the dark elves., When it comes to Kislev they need to just update the whole influence mechanic to include boris or do something completely diffrent for him. The only thing i think Cathay needs (aside from filling out the unit roster) would be a more active mechanic both with the caravans and with the compass, both could be easily fixed by letting you recruit units to your caravan via allies and have added active effects at the end of each compass option, the current one mostly just use 2 of the options anyway, alternatively they could make it so the compass options are diffrent for each lord, for example instead of the attrition at the wall zhao ming could have faster caravans as one option
Super helpful video, I find myself really agreeing with your comments for the factions I've played a lot. Also i find the Champions of Chaos dlc had really helped the mono god races
I think tomb kings suffer a bit from the bigger map, as there's a lot more enemies coming at you and you don't have that many armies for a long time, makes the early game a bit of a waiting game defending multiple towns. Maybe give them extra army in the beginning, then make the buying new stacks later in the game a bit cheaper, so you can address the late game easier when everyone comes at you. With beastmen you get to the point where you can make a new stack every 2 turns at turn 60-80 for me. Also one thing that should be corrected is that if you request army from an ally, it takes an army slot, but that's more of a feature bug.
In my Khalida campaign, I counted armies from nine different factions coming my way in one turn and most of those factions sent two or three armies. I had wanted to collect all the books but I gave up and just blitzed to the victory conditions before I got wiped out. I barely made it. It was a grueling campaign and I hated it. Arkhan went a little bit better early on but the late game was about the same, though not QUITE as bad. Like you said, being capped on your armies gets rough when the whole world decides they don't like you. I managed to get all the books this time, but barely. In both cases, I was just racing to complete my goal before my entire empire collapsed around me.
Just started playing Warhammer Total War games last week and holy moly this Immortal Empires is the best Total War experience ever. I have been a longtime Total War fan and a longtime Warhammer fan, but I’ve had an aversion to trying the Warhammer total wars for years… for some reason I thought it would be like putting ice cream on pizza-two things that I really like, but together are trash 🗑. I was so wrong. This not only scratches every itch as a Warhammer fan, but it’s the best TW experience in its own right. Highly customizable heros/generals/agents(and so many different kinds, that can also fight in battle); where other TW games had hopefully a cool faction mechanic or two, these factions all have like 6 unique mechanics… I’m playing as Har Ganeth rn and have slave labor, sacrifices to the gods, a horde in the form of my “Black Ark,” vassals that spawn and give me money if I declare a Death Night, the list goes on… this gaming experience is so deep; and on top of that you have the most varied aesthetics across different factions of any TW game; I am also very happy with how there is obvious influence from the Tabletop, such as using your agent in battle, not just on the campaign map. A massive map, and so many factions to choose from… And so much attention to the lore I love. This game is incredible. Tbh as a Warhammer fan the one thing that does seem glaringly missing is that there is no army painter of any sort. I know that might seem trivial if you weren’t a Warhammer fan before but it is kind of strange… customizing an army’s colors is an essential part of the Warhammer experience (and a good amount of people collect the minis solely for this reason). That said, the game is great despite that one missing piece.
When you talk about Tomb King, especially the confederation to increase Hero's capacity, I already think about the available increase army cap that also increase the cap of hero by 1 or 2 total (if 2 then it must be 2 different types, no type can repeat twice so essentially 2 each after 3 cycles)
I recently started a coop campaign with my buddies as Malakith and I think part of the issue is that every Dark Elf army winds up being the same. Dread spears, Dark shards, then get Shades. I'd love to use Black Guard or Executioners, but those are Tier 4 units and by time I get them I'm in the ass end of nowhere miles from Naggarond. The only time I've changed it is as Hard Ganaeth using Witch Elves and as Fellhesrt spamming Corsairs. Otherwise there's no reason to deviate. For the Geomantic Web I don't think the bonuses being passive is necessarily an issue, they just need to be more obvious. Like, more than just buffing Commandments. Like at a high enough Geomantic Web Itza gets barrier on Saurus when they fight in their own territory, Sotek gets massive Casualty replenishment on Skinks etc
Vampire Counts need the ability to choose to support Order or Chaos at some point. Thematically, they end up turning to Order (And Vlad was never inherently evil to begin with). Being able to choose who to increase relations with would be a start to making them feel better until Neferata comes with some reworks.
I would like unpleasant terrain to become pleasant terrain as you control more territory in it and your race learns to live in it. Humans have adapted to living in different climates, why can't warhammer races do it also? Only unpleasant though. Uninhabitable should remain uninhabitable. Even go for uninhabitable being outposts rather than full cities. Which human or high elf would want to live in the chaos wastes.
One overall thing that I wish would change is agent actions becoming more impactful. Like burning ammo, demoralizing the enemy, establishing cults actively, cult mechanics in general.
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Hey Legend I've found a new exploit in warhammer 3 if I send it to you could you review?
Hi Legend i think i would be a great idea if you redo your old warhammer 2 roster tier lists, because a lot changed in warhammer 3,some units are better and some are worse
Beastman are most fun faction to play, IMHO. because you don't need to hold a land to build an empire. opposite. if you keep your enemy well and strong, you get more money in long term by erasing their armies. razing settlements are not worth it. you have to play like a filantrop keeping your enemy alive and well. and also like a parasite. you take from your host little by little to keep it alive.
i enjoy Beastman so much that i haven't played other factions since new year now.
also,... do you still accept 'rate my doomstack' save files?
and i also have an ambush battle with Morghur on that bugged map in High Evle Doughnut. they didn't fix the bug with this new patch. it is like you said it will be. you just have to place Morghur in the center of the map. and wait for enemy to die out in less than 10 minutes. and funny thing is :) your enemy can not spawn into that map, but Morghur's chaos spawn mechanic can lol chaos spawn just jump out from nowhere. and enemy start using magic on it. funny stuff...
Thank you for helping with my Nurgle corruption.
I’ve always thought that the lizardmen needed a unique type of untainted that would increase with the geomantic web. It would be the jungle growing around their settlements and act sort of like vampire count’s attrition upon high corruption. It would give the lizards a better thing to work towards imo
There needs to be a "reforestation mechanic" Wood elves would also be a prime candidate. And when it reaches 100 "forest corruption" they could maybe transform the main settlement of a region into a tree settlement. And for lizzardmen ofc other mechanics as well.
maybe a cleansing which makes your territory very resistant to corruption and slows enemies down as its now lizard favoured terrain
yeah. maybe give some boosts too, like increased ambush chance, and negating rampage, and at higher levels a small passive healing buff in regions with high geomantic web. or extra winds of magic. or increased winds of magic regen...
This is just primal corruption, wouldn't even call it part of untainted.
Dude I rly like that idea of special untainted.
Also thought lizardmen should have a similar mechanic to TKs mortuary cult, since lizardmen are just so packed in terms of powerful artifacts in the lore.
Maybe even a sort of mechanic related to recovering lost temple cities.
19:20 maybe settra, khalida and khatep could have something in the mortuary cult to revive each other in there faction if there faction gets wiped out
I.e. lybaras gets wiped out, Settra gets a mortuary cult item that adds khalida into his lord pool
Khalida into Khemri maybe, but not serving is kind of Settra's thing, and Khatep's banishment is absolute, to the point that when he returned with knowledge that tilted the early End times in the favor of order, Settra still executed him for returning to Nehekhara. Not to say that lore should dictate all gameplay decisions, but in this case it definitely would feel off from a lore perspective to have most Tomb Kings confederating.
Maybe you could have it be just a settra thing and give the other lords some bonus to compensate?
@@benfisher961 frankly feel like it shouldn't be assumed that every faction can confederate.
Some races just play nicer amongst themselves than others, and some have built in reasons to work together (Orcs respecting strength and Skavens cowardly/scheming nature). But for others cooperation should be off the table: the tomb kings being one of them.
I can see, that i am just spitballing ideas
These tier lists are always the bomb
Always BLOWS my mind
You got some allah in my ackbar
He's the legend for a reason lol
One thing I have always been asking for for the lizardmen, is when you have a tier 5 geomantic web building, you can teleport an army anywhere within your borders or up to one layline outside of your territory. If they want us to care so much about it, then it needs something to make it worth while, making it part of an ever expanding webway for the lizardmen would be excellent.
I second this. The Geomantic Web needs to be a big deal, more than just "Your commandments suck until they don't, but only in the places where it doesn't matter." They need to be special! It's such an expensive building for no fucking reason.
@@aeldariambitions6334 I don't remember the cost but it does provide an increase to income from the building itself. Teleportation would probably work pretty well since it would cut out travel time in built up settlements. means you wouldn't be able to jump to the frontline immediately so doesn't seem overpowered.
@@travisspicer5514
Frankly better mobility needs to just he a thing.
Playing as Oxyotl or Belakor, or a faction with easy access to sea lanes is such a better experience than playing literally anything else
Make them easier to build; but takes longer with each one built.
Give each faction general and unique options; which direct the great plan based on Geometric Web strength; that can influence AI behavior.
From easier confederation, combat abilities, summoning armies that auto-defend Web Connections that tiers off settlements and tier of web.
I feel like you being the architect of The Great Plan would be awesome
At the very least a huge increase to movement speed in any province that increases as the web scales up. So if you have 40 level 5 provinces all linked up, then you get a massive increase to speed all along that web, like 300%.
My biggest feelbad thing with the empire campaign mechanics is that sometimes the ai just slaughters some elector counts before you can even get the rebels killed and it just tanks your authority which is rather annoying at times.
Yeah
In general I think the immortal empires map is too cluttered and active. I think some kind of optional difficulty setting that will remove some legendary lords from the map could really help someone factions like the empire feel more fun for players who aren't looking for a super challenging campaign.
Idk I did kinda like the fact your at a constant struggle with the counts and festus and the orcs, it kinda feels right for the empire to be like that as thats kind of your job is to reunite it all. But its just that their unit roster is so 1 dimensional even just more different units, couple of more elite melee units or archer units idk anything man and as legend said the authority system is just too random and useless late game.
@@TheGlenn8 Even better, give us the option to confederate or make "super factions". So if you and the squad wanted to play a challenging campaign you could make it so that all the chaos factions are confederated together or something like that. It would be even cooler if they gave us the tools to say confederate Festus into Nurgle and give his empire provinces to Hochland right at the start of the campaign, so you can play around and essentially customize your own campaign. I think that's the ultimate dream for me at least, and would essentially mean infinite replay-abilty.
@@TheGlenn8 yah the game would be a million times better if we got a civ 6 mrnue before it started
The negative effects aren’t even that bad, they’re very bearable
Only problem with Kislev for me is Devotion- after a certain point in the campaign you don't really need it or need to worry about it as you will always have enough to do your invocation. What could make it more interesting is if you could unlock an ability to do multiple invocations of the motherland at once, or buy units with devotion. This would also help with campaign difficulty by giving kislev more tools to deal with enemies with.
I just hate Empire and Kislev's whack-a-mole experience due to being surrounded, especially with the latter having a poor economy.
This. You're swimming in devotion by the mid-game, and have nothing to spend it on. Even the invocations seem lackluster because really it feels like you always want the "big money, bonus bear" Dazh invocation up at all times.
Beefing up Ursun to have more attrition that went through raid/encamp stance, or a scorched-earth province edict to take the pressure of constant spam off of you might make Kislev more manageable.
19:15 Someone proposed a mechanic on another video that it should be possible to confederate Settra, but if that happens your faction changes to Khemri and Settra becomes the new faction leader (basically switching your campaign from a Khalida/Arkhan/Khatep campaign to a Settra campaign).
20:50 The Vampire Coast should have a confederation mechanic that works differently than the other confederations. It should work around the infamy mechanic - becoming such an infamous pirate that the others are so impressed that they want to join you. The infamy system should be a bit more active with rewarding particularly difficult raids and stuff like that.
Maybe a confederation dilemma could be triggered when you have double the infamy of another legendary lord or something along those lines.
21:49 I actually enjoy the Glory system. I think what this faction lacks is more interaction with other Chaos factions.
@@Sletchman yea black arks are so good vs vampire coast, I really feel their legendary lords should just have unique black arks you can build up vs being some odd horde you bring on land.
Cathay does kinda need something that turns the Kurgans off in the late game. Maybe a monument you can build at somewhere like Fortress of Eyes that reduces threat by another 3% so you can do that plus the three gate commandments to get to 0%.
I think a monument sounds good and I would definetely like to see that. Although I think Markus Wulfheart has paved a way for even better way to resolve this. Currently, if Markus subdues Lustria, the random attacks on his faction stop. I think something similar could be made for Cathay, lets say if you control the gates and venture out to the Chaos Waste to destroy Yusaks, Khazags and Villitch. Maybe then by capturing Villitch's Red Fortress and having full control over those regions + bastion gates, you could stop the Kurgans.
@@faxiahoudun4845 Trouble is that Cathay can do that too fast, at least Miao Ying can. Beeline him and you can have Vilitch dead by turn 12 or so* and past that no further resistance until you hit Kholek and Grimgor.
It needs to be something that takes a little more time. A tier 3-4 monument would be about right given the growth rates you get in red territory as Cathay (because your compass effects only work in Cathay itself).
*Recruit a second stack of peasants plus Gotrek to go after Eshin and send dragon mommy after Vilitch, easy life.
@@faxiahoudun4845 at least for a while till someone knocks cathy out of those areas.
I wouldn't mind seeing a system for WoC where each champion can confederate their respected patron god's lord. e.g. Vilitch confederating Kairos and vice versa. Maybe it could be introduced as a special event in campaigns since their starting locations are pretty far apart?
Confederations are fun, there should be more confederations in general, even if it does go against the Lore. Lore is good and has a part to play in the game, but more fun things to do in a game like this is better, in my opinion anyway.
Should be the other way around imo
Yes exactly
Since their rosters are almost the same
it would be cool to have more legendary Lords in your faction
Honestly, I've just enjoyed keeping Recruit Defeated Legendary Lords on.
It results in some funny things sometimes and kinda like "breaks" some of the WoC Lords, getting Azazel with only Nurgle units moment, but it's still really fun, way more fun than not having it.
That and just ripping out habitability by the root makes for a lot of really interesting scenarios if you have the desire.
Also shoots Belakor up to just being like the definitive way to play Chaos
And how would you go about confederating *different races* hmm? You might as well try and confederate Empire with Bretonnia or dwarves and chaos dwarves.
Vilitch in that example is warriors of chaos with some extra Tzeentch stuff. Kairos is daemons of chaos-Tzeentch. Different races, different cultures, different (even if somewhat overlapping) rosters, different special mechanics, different most everything.
You'd like to basically rework the campaign system and make it more cumbersome, more complicated, more buggy for merely an option to fuse different races and make your own life more difficult?
Just make vassalizing option and be done with it.
Khorne could use some updates to the tech tree, it's still focused on realms of chaos races
I think a good idea for a Dark Elf rework, at least for Malekith personally, would be a mechanic revolving around conquering Ulthuan and killing off High Elf factions. Malekith’s main focus in Warhammer Fantasy lore was to claim his birthright as Phoenix King of Ulthuan. I have no experience in game design so I don’t know what benefits or utilities that Malekith could obtain from conquering Ulthuan. Maybe when he takes a High Elf settlement, he unlocks High Elf units that are capped like the Beastmen or Tomb Kings, but the more High Elf settlements he conquers, the more units he can recruit. Another mechanic revolving around conquering Ulthuan could be the ability to turn High Elf factions into vassals/allies, with High Elf faction leaders being terrified of the Witch King’s wrath and wanting to stay on his good side with each settlement he claims/the closer he gets to the capital city Lothern. Obviously High Elf legendary lords like Tyrion, Teclis, Alarielle, etc would not submit to Malekith for lore reasons but minor High Elf factions would. Could even give Malekith a big final quest battle after he conquers so many settlements where all the High Elf legendary lords team up to stop him from taking Lothern and asserting dominance over Ulthuan once and for all, in the same vein as “The Fall of Man” quest battle where the Beastmen take on Karl Franz and Louen Leoncouer after destroying much of the Empire and Bretonnia.
If my memory serves there already is this.
The Shrine of Asyurian or something has a unique building you can build as Malekith, that on completion, forces all High Elf factions into accepting a military alliance with you.
Probably SHOULD have been Vassalization but, eh.
Kinda weaksauce and not better than just killing them and taking the doughnut entirely for yourself, but...
I think what DEs need are some more different Lord mechanics. Malekith definitely wants to rule Ulthuan, but Lokhir f.e. prollly couldn't care less and mainly wants to sack, while Morathi wants to subjugate and Helebron wants to murder shit.
Morathi could use the Slaanesh cults, Malekith should have a forceful subjugation mechanic that does something before he basically conquered the donut, while Helebron could use something like bloodletting where mass murder gives her other benefits. The fact that the slave rework now revolves more around holding territory is one of the things I really dislike about it, outside of Malekith the rest shouldn't really care about controlling territory.
In a similar vein the roster overall feels a bit underwhelming and doesn't really click with each other. Imo you could either push it into different directions by strongly buffing outliers through LLs (Malekith standard infantry/BG, Helebron Khaine infantry, Malus COs) or specialize them more into roles (COs get AL-techs to counter cav, HGEs get a higher AI bonus, ...). On paper you have high tier heavy infantry, double shrine buffs and a heavy cav to enable a more aggressive heavy run-at-them-style in the vein of WoC/VC which imo is more in line with their faction, but it doesn't really work in TWWH compared to just spamming xbows because the former underperforms while the latter overperforms consistently.
@@aprinnyonbreak1290 by the time you get the shrine of asuryan, you'll already be at war with every high elf faction though lol.
@@iamdopeasfcuk
But it forces them into an alliance regardless.
I don't actually know how it works, I've never done it, but I've seen it happen ingame, have seen the building, and have heard other people talk about it
@@aprinnyonbreak1290 It just gives +100 diplomatic relations, nothing more.
I feel like all game 3 factions need more unique units, especially Kislev and Cathay. I really like playing Kislev and the challenge of the early to mid game but my army composition never really changes from game to game: early game Kossar spam, then some light war sleds, then late game Ice Guard/War Bear riders. Chaos factions could all use some unique units as well, since a good portion of their rosters are shared. Tzeentch is one of my favorite campaigns but mechanic wise definitely feels lacking
I think Kislev especially could use some normal cannons. Like, ones that aren't being pulled by bears.
It feels a little out of place that they just straight up only have cannons pulled by bears. It could do their army variety good if they just had a regular cannon and a mortar.
I agree completely. I'm annoyed at seeing people wanting more factions after the Chaos Dwarfs - My favorite faction is lizardmen (since before total war warhammer even) and going from playing a campaign with them to ANY of the game 3 factions (besides Belekor) feels like throwing out 90% of the diversity. For lizards you can go infantry spam, monster spam, you've got a few hybrid artillery units, multiple war hound style units, multiple flyer options, multiple magic options, etc. etc. For kislev you've got your bears and you're elite infantry late game.
They really need more Lord types and more importantly more Hero types. There are certain campaign and army actions that the Warhammer 3 factions straight up can not do, because they don't have heroes with those. Missing Block Army or Repenlish Troops is really frustrating
@the creator
Comparing a finished race (lizardmen) with Kislev in game 3 that had no dlc, obviously is the problem here. We'll have to wait a few years to see that amount of variety for the war3 races granted chaos (except monogod ones) are ok now.
@@eewweeppkk yeah and I'm annoyed dogs of war don't exist. If rather had those then Kislev ore Cathay .
Like cool you have your favorite but other's should be able to play there's too .
I don’t know if this is widely known but if u play clan eshin and take the floating city settlement and either let it revolt or use shadowy dealings to force a revolt the army it spawns is a Cathay caravan army and u can get massive amounts of gold and food really early on for them and snowball a campaign
Great, cause what we needed was another Skaven exploit 😂 Very in keeping with the essence of what Skaven are it must be said
For Tomb Kings I wish you could use the canopic jars to increase unit capacity like the beastmen so you have an option to play tall rather than forced to play wide.
1000% agree with your take on Bretonnia, Vampire Counts, and Dark Elves. They were all in my top 5 most enjoyed races in wh2 and their current state has heavily contributed towards the unenthusiastic sentiments I currently have towards the game.
I love Bretonnia, but they struggle so hard in Warhammer 3 they just get burned down so fast in Warhammer 3 you never get that satisfying snowball of confederating one at a time until you have this big power block like you did in game 2. Also the speed buffs for everyone else's cavalry has made them lackluster, they need something to stand out. Also the AI army compositions need improved because they constantly run awful peasant crap stacks.
One thing that would help Bretonnia for sure would be the promotion system that Chaos has, allowing you to see those knights that have been with your legendary lords since the beginning growing alongside them.
Also being able to switch peasant arrows between battles would be nice.
Bretonnian are just so bad. There always seems to be something that restricts you or piss you off. Terrible infantry, Terrible replenish rate and the water system make no sense and infuriates me. Pushing into attrition area, uninhabitable area or plague just wrecks you.
I understand you are suppose to merge units instead of replenishing as Bret, but still doesn't change that it will slow you down. Best thing about them is their diplomacy and grail knights. Wish their cavalry overall were much stronger
I've played DEs a bit in SFO and imo they work better there. Not great and I still think SFO's take on WH2 eco is better than their take on WH3's eco model, but it feels like my elites are actually doing stuff and the faction differences are a bit more pronounced.
I totally annihilated Vlad's army multiple times and it came back FULL HEALTH ALL UNITS three turns in a row.
I quit that campaign because in each three battles I did actually kill Vlad and destroyed all units.
Vampire counts are insane right now.
Im so glad that you are willing to admit that a lot of factions are fine as they are. It’s so annoying to scroll through redit and UA-cam and everyone claim that everyone needs a rework 1 by 1 it’s what drives me crazy about watching GBOG cause he thinks everyone needs a rework.
Yeah, I quit watching his channel because all of his videos are either "gimme gimme gimme" or a lot of baseless speculation.
I hope that eventually the geomantric web becomes a vital part of the lizardmen campaign. Imagine the geomantirc web being used in a defensive and offensive way while also having the passive buff, but only when not being utilized. You could use it to weaken the enemy settlements or lords in the territory. Or make a territory wide buff to ambush success chance. It would give some good touch ups to the lizard men
Faction discussion and tier placement timestamps
1:40 Empire
3:40 Dwarfs
4:30 Vampire Counts
6:30 Greenskins
7:05 Warriors of Chaos
8:50 Beastmen
10:20 Wood Elves
11:25 Bretonnia
12:35 Norsca
13:33 High Elves
14:30 Dark Elves
15:42 Lizardmen
17:15 Skaven
18:20 Tomb Kings
19:33 Vampire Coast
21:13 Daemons of Chaos
22:00 Khorne
23:00 Tzeentch
24:25 Nurgle
25:25 Slaanesh
25:50 Kislev
27:20 Cathay
28:23 Ogres
thank
Vampire Counts have a weird relationship with things. I had endgame units before turn 15 with them in my latest campaign because Vlad managed to lure Gelt into an ambush and scored a large enough battlefield to get Terrorfiends and Blood Knights to replace the chaff I sacrificed to kill his army. So I've had an army that hasn't changed for 20 turns now and crushed all of the Empire factions without any issues because they were struggling to handle endgame units and a rapidly levelling Vlad and Isabella in even fights never mind when I managed to land an ambush.
Totally agree with Bretonnia the wall system gone for them really hits hard.
They are the race that are build around the middle ages fantasy were practically every settlement had walls around them and then Bretonnia gets none... its pretty wierd.
@@marcpaulus6291
They're also the race that saved WH:FB from getting scrapped altogether. And are now the redheaded step child.
The two biggest issues with the brets are how they made them all grimdark and how they never updated them.
That was an overall fuck up by the CA, they yielded to certain butthurt youtubers bitching about "not enuff feeld battlez".
Thank gods for the mods.
The only improvements I want with the Ogres is a camp overhaul, like more camp limits, wider zones, being able to pack up and move the camp without demolishing it and starting fresh, and also Ogre armies should get a buff while in the camp radius and not a debuff when outside of it
I think Imperial Authority doesn’t need a major rework, it just needs some more controlled ways of increasing prestige reliably, and perhaps higher risks to
Balance it out.
I think Skarbrand should be able to confed Valkia, and the same pairings for the others. maybe even in a two-way street, to make the faction feel more attached to their god
Valkia would make a Shield out of his face!
Skarbrand . . . Is exiled right?
@@williammitchell6254 for taking the teachings of his god too far to the extreme. 'It matters not what blood flows, only that it flows' kinda... became a problem when he challenged khorne to a duel and managed to cut his god.
@@shadeblackwolf1508 No, the problem was that he did it from the back, instead of attacking from the front. He wouldn't have gotten bitchslapped so hard otherwise.
That would be lorewise wrong. Skarbrand literally has autism because of the impact. Also other Khorne lords calling him a "Disgrace".
I have a suggestion for a video series that i know i would appreciate (dunno about others), basically one of my big struggles when playing a new faction is what army comps to go for. So i was thinking quick videos for each faction just going over good army comps for early-mid-late game. Of course can't go in to every detail, but it would be really helpful to have some direction and guidance on what to go for (which millitary buildings to just instantly get rid of and which ones to keep around)
Yeah that can be good.
Some factions have really solid late game armies, like Lizardmen, but exactly what you're supposed to build around at lower tiers can be rough to learn just from flinging units at things.
For them at least, my biggest tip is, unless playing Kroq-Gar and getting a discount, don't get more than a few units of Saurus.
They're just too expensive and often don't perform very well in mass groups.
You're better off using ranged Skinks to support two to four units of them, and getting the very nice tier 2 and 3 monsters and such until you can get better stuff, or have the economy to support bigger saurus blocks or start pressing the Stegadon button
General diplomacy could use a rework. in particular i'm looking at adding a "broker agreement" option, where you can forge agreements between factions depending on their relation to eachother and you. for example a non-agression between your allies.
High elves now can really deal their diplomatic stuff, like in lore.
Want to attack some neutral faction for lands, but they have alliances with other? For example u want to kill belegar (which is lorefriendly of cos), but dont want to piss of with all empire - declare war on evil faction like sartosa, conquer some city and give it to belegar in cost of breaking alliance with reikland. And then another city in cost of breaking other relationships with empire - now, after dwarfs broke 2-4 agreements with karl, they will hate them. Wait some turn, prepare your armies positions and invade shortgrudgers. Reikland would agree that and u can deal some packs with empire as well. Of cos u can force that shit with your influence mechanic as well and take a shot in whole 3-5 turn without issues %)
@@easytanksgaming3238 my problem is mostly allies going to war agianst eachother and both sides calling you in
@@shadeblackwolf1508 try to not establish defensive or even military alliances with culture that have non similar like u politics. I rarely do alliances at all lol)
@@easytanksgaming3238 That's avoiding the problem rather than handling it
The issue is that that's a high elf racial mechanic.
Great idea for a tierlist Legend. It's great to see the game start to pick up speed again.
One of the biggest issues that I have with most mechanics, and what frustrates me the most in campaign, is when I'm spending most of the campaign being reactionary instead of having agency. I'm not _doing_ stuff most of the time, I'm responding to what the AI does.
As a Lizardman main, sometimes I’ll go a hundred turns before I remember about the geomatic web. So your point about it being so passive it gets forgotten is spot on.
I would love an Ogre Kingdoms system where they get contract quest battles: Like they get to decide whether they take a contract from Stirland to fight a battle against Vlad and Isabella and gain an item or traits upon success as well as a Diplomacy boost.
I think Ogre Camps should be tied to lords like shipbuilding for the Vampire Coast instead of creating a new lord that can't really do anything. The whole point of a camp is that it's not permanent and so they should be able to be moved around.
Or maybe they could be like the Black Arks in that they have a unique lord with a unique kind of skill tree that works together with the camp itself. But maybe not _as_ mobile as that, I think they should be moveable but with a cost
@@houndofculann1793 ...Or that, so long as it doesn't stay the way it currently is.
I dont think they should get a copy paste. But yes it could be more interesting
Technically you can move a camps location you just get rid of the old one. I think its fair it can't be moved. That is part of the strategy. Would be pretty broken to move 1, or more than 1, tier 5 camp to the front where it can hold a stack of stonehorns for you at a reduced cost. Especially considering each camp increases factionwide income, if i remember correctly? Ogres late game should be pretty broken already.
I've had a similar thought since day 1 of playing Ogres. The camps should be moveable, but not every turn like a unit. Maybe every X turns you can that camp a normal movement amount. It takes X turns and its not available for units during that time, like an ogre caravan, where the camp disappears till it reaches it's target spot and then takes a turn to set back up.
It feels bad to setup a camp, raid some areas and then take them over, and then later that camp is so far from where you'd want it. Sure, you get more later, but eventually you cap out and it just makes no sense lorewise that the camp is now permanently there.
Maybe you can move them wherever (near a lord) but moving them sets their tier back one rank. I don't really care how they do the mechanics of it, but they need to be moveable a bit.
My biggest gripe with the Vampire Coast is that for the "seafaring faction" they feel remarkably land-based. It feels at times like The Blessed Dread are more of a naval faction then they are, and the Beastmen gameplay feels a lot more like what I'd have expected. I'd have liked the VC's to be kinda like Beastmen with Black Arks in that they attack a port, establish a temporary hold on it, sack the nearby lands, then pack up their stuff, cash-in the devastation and run off back to the sea to find someone else to harass. The idea of owning and defending a permanent land presence of any size feels a lot less like pirates and a lot more like just a regular country with a strong Navy, like the British Empire of 500 years ago. Or if we're being generous, like British/Spanish sponsored privateers that would govern an island or two or maybe a smol stretch of land. Actual pirates 400-500 years ago would be damn well lucky to just find a port that is "funny looking" enough that it would even be willing to sell them supplies and repairs and not just call the authorities on them! They definitely weren't going about conquering continents.
Their problem isn't that their stuff is weak or bad, but that they're not nearly committed enough to their identity.
Norsca being in the ‘Feels Good’ seems insane at first being that they have never really been touched, but from the perspective that they got a pseudo-rework from the champions of chaos dlc is a hot but honest take
Nah, they were so deep in the shitehole that even with massive improvements they still need a rework, or at the very least a bloody bugfix, since their own faction mechanic doesn't work due to a notorious bug blocking progress with monster hunts.
I understand Legend's reasoning but no, placing Norsca anywhere lower than "needs rework" was just idiotic.
Very cool video dude, can't wait for the vampire rework!
Same, hope we'll go in depth with Bloodlines and get new models also.
I feel like all of the "Expedition" campaigns need work. Markus Wulfhart and Repanse Di Lyonesse worked AMAZINGLY well in WH2 Vortex because the map was huge in their general area and they were truly isolated.
Teclis, Wulfhart, Alberic, Repanse, Grombindral, Boris Ursus, etc. All need more to their campaigns to make their expeditions feel more thematic. Alberic and Teclis in particular have basically NOTHING in their tech trees or game objectives to make their campaigns feel unique or different than if you were just playing a regular Tyrion/Louen campaign with a faction relocator mod.
The Dark Elves just need a general rework and their expedition factions all need this same kind of attention as well.
I like Nurgle because you can make some ingenious use of plague cultists at times, and it's a character heavy faction (IE you really only need to micro one guy for a lot of fights). I also feel like it can build a stupid amount of momentum if it is able to fight humans (who lack early magic weapons + give plague spreading follower) and reach the research that grants population surplus.
My biggest wish for Nurgle is for the cycles of the building to be buffed to such an extent that you ACTUALLY get value out of micromanaging which provinces has which commandment and spreading plagues in your territory.
In my Nurgle campaign, I basically NEVER spread plagues offensively, the only value is for infecting your own settlements.
Tiermaker is such a great template and tool to help make a video about any topic. It's really great.
That's not just your Tzeentch bias. Nurgle seriously needs help - especially in the early game of Immortal Empires.
For Kislev, I feel like Kostaltyn would benefit from having the Ice Court training mechanic but for Patriarchs. + for all lords more usages for Devotion, like maybe recruiting better standard lords with some improved traits (like the High Elves have), or some specialized new units specific for each lord that also cost some devotion upon recruiting: something akin to Flagellants for Kostaltyn, Ice guards with snow leopard mounts (a new monstrous cavalry unit) for Katarin, Elemental Bears with a cannon strapped to its back for Boris (think Stegadons/Bastiladons). Just some ideas, not sure how lore friendly those are. At least the potential is limitless and I'm excited to see what future DLC-s could bring to the table.
Vampire counts should be able to resurrect strong units from decisive or heroic victories or valiant defeats only, to imply they are getting the best of the best from dead units.
Pls continue with campaign reviews series! They are awesome.
Oh boy, can't wait to see the dark elf rework in S++
Immortal Empires has plenty of water, so giving Vampire Coast a better movement option at sea would be great.
This is the single best advert on a UA-cam video ever. I hope they pay you well mate. Made my day.
One thing I absolutely love about Cathay is the caravan mechanic. Great way to keep their economy going and they always feel like mini-adventures/expeditions.
It would be cool if the geomantic web gave you insane recharge on your winds of magic or faster ability cool downs or something like that. It should be something that effects a battle so it's more important.
All human and elf factions need A LOT more character faces. ALL characters of the same type having the exact same face just doesn’t feel right and at some point it absolutely ruins the immersion.
Rome 2 and Attila with their 5-6 face types per character already had that clone wars feel about them and here in WH it’s through the roof.
Maybe Tzeentch just needs some extra steps to his cheats. Think a mechanic where you assemble objectives into a grand master plan - the bigger the objectives, the better the plan. Like, if you make a plan where you win X battles, improve relations with Y faction, and recruit Z units, you can unlock a use of a Changing of the Ways effect. Kind of like a version of Bretonnia's Vows that you build yourself.
In warhammer 2 I played dark elves the most. I Love them.
Same, the roster just feels good to play. Sisters of Slaughter are still my favorite girls
I love them too. But I agree with Legend, that it's not really exciting. I personally don't need excitement, but I get his point.
I enjoy playing them as well.
I had a blast with morathi in warhammer 3
Warhammer3 massively improved Malus' mechanics and position. Slaves were boring in 2, they are still boring in 3, but now require less management, which is good.
The vampire counts are in the biggest need of a rework. They are so annoying to play against. Unlike other factions you can’t run down their units after a battle to wipe them out, it’s pure luck whether they are or not. Fighting an army that is primarily made up of high tier monsters and infantry, barely winning and then seeing all those high tier units survive and replenish to full next turn just isn’t fun. Lords can survive this way too which makes it all the worse
WH3 Dark Elves really got hurt by the slave rework. I don't understand why they took a fine (albeit cheesy) system and made it so static. Sure, the object of the game was to specialize your provinces but you were absolutely encouraged to fight to drastically and temporarily boost your economy. Now getting slaves feels like it doesn't even matter and the whole fantasy of 'war machine that falls apart without war' is wholly gone.
With this kind of tierlist you really give insights also to casual players like myself. What can we expect from the factions when we play it, and possible changes or reworks if CA does address it. Thanks!
With the empire one thing that annoyed me is that I could wipe out all of norsca, chaos, etc and I get nothing for it and I have to wait for some random pop up to appear just so I can get one authority
I'm hoping the chaos dwarfs DLC comes with some extra mustard for the regular dwarfs!
Have you seen the Dwarf Polearms mod? They have Ram Riders, they're brilliant and as much as Dawi are meant to be a stationary army I think they're too awesome not to be added 😄
I think you need to give nurgle another try legend. You’re wrong about their armies being weak nurgle armies are actually SUPER strong, it’s just that they’re so expensive to recruit. Maybe give them another try.
If the empire gets a rework I hope their units get some touch ups as well. I know the empire is meant to be a king at range and mediocre in melee but most armies just close the distance so quickly the artillery doesn’t matter much. Skaven can spawn units right on your artillery and so many factions can use some super spell to destroy artillery. Maybe buffing cavalry speed or infantry melee defense would be good
I am glad I was previliged to enjoy that presentation of sponsorship. Made my day and now I know what I have to do! BRB...
Here is my main problem with this tierlist. So, let me get this straight:the vampire counts, dark elves, and tzeench need a rework because their mechanics are too passive or only need to click to use their mechanics and they reach their potential too quickly, BUT the high elves, who you clearly said they were overpowered, who's unique mechanic is a passive that requires a click of button to use, DOESN'T need a rework? Instead, a race that already had its rework?
At least the dark elves had to go out and fight people and even had to resist occupying a settlement and instead sack the settlement to buff up the slave economy. The high elves don't even need to fight to rack up large amounts of influence. They just need to either spam hero actions or spam noble and the other influence generating building.
So why do those three need a rework but not the high elves?
I mostly agree about the Dark Elves, but I love Morathi. The slaanesh corruption benefits her faction so much, and the fact that her public order building also spreads corruption and gives you more Hags is *amazing*. I loved Dark Elves in II, and still love Morathi, though the other Lords definitely feel MUCH weaker than they were.
Legend claims to follow Tzeentch yet regularly says he has Nurgle corruption in his Manscape ads. Curious.
Thx dir the tier list. I think they are my favourite videos. Nearly never miss one of your videos but I think I’ve never missed or disliked your Tier list videos 😄
Thx for the content!
Bretonnia needs an update. This far it’s the most one dimensional faction in the game. It needs a couple of good units that are NOT melee cavalry. People are in denial about this one but it’s true all the same.
1000000000% agreed.
"Sure it's archers are mid, it's infantry suck, it's arty is on the downside, it's in desperate need of lore of light, and there isn't enough variety to make gameplay less repetitive or vs human opponents less predictable...
but it's the cav faction that's what they do"
is something I've heard too much.
@@spiffygonzales5160 at this point I’m absolutely sure that people who say that don’t really play the faction very often. You have to work very hard to win most of your battles with only melee cav and it gets very tedious at times.
@@sarmatiancougar7556
Agreed. You can legit do hammer and anvil better with the empire. They have better missile cav, better infantry, and demigryphs STILL beat grail knights.
Empire is a better cav faction than the literal cav faction
Thank you yet again for another great tier list, these are making the train trip from work being truly delightful!
I think that the ogres could use the mercenary sistem of Total War Three Kingdoms so if you fight a faction could take extra benefits from other factions alredy at war with them.
Basically you sign a contract and for every battle you recibe points and you could (thinking of something fresh) exchange for multiple rewards that depends with what race did you sign a contract. For example, you coukld obtain units, items, gold, faction buffs, heroes, etc. Another thing will be when you complete a contract you recibe a big reward, like unique items, 20 turns bonuses or something quite strong so it is intresting to fulfill this contracts and tunel vision that enemy
Note - Beastmen actually got a nerf in Warhammer III - minotaurs need 2 turns to recruit now
That's how it was in WH1 and most of WH2 if I remember correctly.
I rush the geo Web for the lizardmen cause the buffs do decent. They are passive they work well if do the according things to benefit like higher rank units recruiting when doing a mass recruit
Karl Franz in the trailer: We need to work together
Whispers to Boris: We need these elves and dwarves, or we are completely screwed against WoC rework
Awesome video, my thinking for confederations has always been one of two things, for somebody like Setra it should be respect based, his whole thing is he’s meant to be the emperor and these people should essentially be at his beck and call, however given his empires fall to disgrace it should be built basically as he builds his own faction back up, other tomb kings are willing to vassalize and eventually confederate with you. Not exactly power bar but perhaps through building grand buildings and completing campaign objectives. Similar to how feudalism actually works, if you have this much power and influence and respect they’re willing to essentially give you their allegiance, once you become Setra the great again you can assume direct control. For other factions I’ve always felt like it should be quest based for legendary lords. If a lord is defeated you should have a timed quest to prepare for a battle, basically this lord and the last of his retinue versus a couple armies of whatever faction destroyed them, or perhaps their lore enemy. You win they’re yours to recruit, perhaps with their own unique little retinue that you rescued, 4-10 units ROR style. Like say the beast men destroy the Todd bringer’s home and he’s on the run, it makes sense that in desperation he’d send a message to the emperor basically pleading for help. You could thematically do this for all factions, for dwarves it would be a grudge set right mechanic, you go settle the grudge, retake the dwarf holds or rebuild the settlement and this dwarf is willing to serve you due to you setting right that grudge, chaos would be more like resurrecting them, somebody defeats their faction, you get a quest to go kill that army, and one of the post battle options is like A) take lots of money, B) take strong item, C) forgo other reward legendary lord is available to you. You could thematically do this to a lot of factions, and tweak their mechanics to make sense. I actually think archaon and belakor being the only confederators for chaos makes sense lore wise, but definitely should be a little more forgiving for others so they can have more lords and more fun. I think non-legendary factions should have more lore backed confederation mechanics, high elves diplomacy, orcs and norsca and chaos all sort of might/favor systems. It’s long frustrated me that a faction can be totally losing the war have no hope and even though we’re friendly and I offer to confederate and save their lives their answer is basically “give me 10 million dollars or I’d rather die.” It’s like if North Dakota was being invaded and South Dakota was like “hey we’ll come rescue you and then we can be one Dakota! Sounds awesome right?” And then north Dakota was just like “actually people we normally like, we’d rather be nuked than be just Dakota.” I can’t tell you how many high elf factions do that to me, we’re friendly,’trade agreement and all, and they are getting pummeled and they just go, “nah, give me freedom or give me death bud, I know Khorne is building the best chair ever out of all our skulls and you could save us, but I’ll be damned if I call Tyrion the Phoenix king.”
Tomb Kings are my most played race since they released and I think all they really need is an option to confederate the other TK LLs when you get 5 books and awaken the pyramid
I've always enjoyed my games as Kislev, the major problem with them is they need a more rounded roster, and the difficulty needs to be tuned down a bit (clan moulder in particular is very very difficult to deal with, and wipes out every other Kislev if ignored). However, if you enjoy the kind of campaign where you're under siege, Kislev is fun.
I also think Kislev confederation should be easier, as there supposed to be a confederating race (like Bretonnia or Empire)
Man, I remember way back when I first got back into warhammer, the empire had just gotten their rework. I hadn’t played since warhammer 1 so I was very impressed with everything (not to mention flabbergasted by the fact that wh1 had just, y’know, left out half of the world of warhammer, it was my introduction to the series so i had no clue there was land west or south). But at that time the “unplayable” factions included the greenskins, the beastmen, chaos, the wood elves, and even the dwarfs. I’m so happy for them these days. So far we’ve come
Would love a series similar to the campaign reviews where you quickly guide the early game. What buildings to stay away from, which tech to go for and what units to recruit to get the ball rolling.
Good vid
On woc confed i kinda think it should be more god based with the deamon factions, so kugath and festus for example
The more distinctive monogod factions to me feel more like their own thing then warriors of chaos and its thematic
The slaneesh seduction system needs a bug fixing.. I have auto resolve victories turn into defeats quite often
Imperial Authority has almost no benefits to keeping it high beyond not going negative. The Grimmhammer mod makes it so a massively positive Imperial Authority at least gives you some major buffs. But yeah, it sucks and I hate it. And Karl is my favourite character by far. Not to mention how hard it is now to even try to keep it up on higher difficulties. You gotta deal with Vlad, Kemmler, Khazrak, Durthu, Festus, Drycha, Wulfrik, Azhag, and Skrag. Did I miss anybody? Oh yeah, Grom even likes to come over for a fun time. And Belakor is a hop skip and a jump away.
Looks like tier lists are back on the menu boyz!
Warriors of Chaos should’ve just had a Beastmen style confederation. Pay a lump sum of souls, get a faction.
Imo dark elves wouldve been in dont change a thing if they had wh2 indentured servant system because thats player controlled and strategic
well done Legend, a lot of thought has gone into this thanks really enjoyed it
My problem with Kislev is that for an anti-demon faction they absolutely suck at dealing with demons. They need some better units with armor piercing and magic attacks otherwise it just feels so bad fighting an immortal Valkia.
I think what Nurgle needs is a big economy buff and a plague rework, maybe something similar to Slaanesh and Khorne mechanics. What I mean by that is you could have some kind of an infection level on each factions (or province) that would go up by a bit for every region that suffers one of your plagues each turn and it would scale faster depending on how many different symptoms they suffer. Once a faction reaches 100% infection (and it would automatically go up to 100% if you somehow manage to apply all symptoms on a single faction at the same time, so you have a reason to not always spam the same plague), you can trigger an effect that would make a random one of their cities blow up (getting razed because its whole population would have died to the plague, with something like 15 turns CD) and spawn a powerful army that you could control but not replenish, from very small to no upkeep at all (depending on techs) similar to the blood hosts that Khorne has.
The plagues also need to be more useful by default considering how weak they are compared to the Skaven plague...
It would be perfect if each dedicated chaos LL could confederate their demon faction legendary lord and vice versa, like Valkia confederating Skarbrand or Ku Gath confederating Festus. The only thing you could get like that is the faction leader but they could change the current faction leader of the confederated demon faction and give it to you as a vassal (or just destroy it and keep the lord, seems very natural for chaos)
I just played 3 races from "top" of this list and... i liked it. The races were (in order of playing) Bretonia as Repanse (Fast victory), Dark elves as Lokhir(Fast victory) and right after as Malus (Full victory + domination), and now im doing Vampire courts as Vlad (turn 33: 8 settlement before FV). All done at VH/VH difficulty and all of them was fun.
The issues i had was not rooted to the faction mechanics but to some other things that make me not want to go for Long victory:
1) As Repanse the main issue was Thorek who cleared all the orks, left Skarbrand on 1 settlement and beat up clan Mors so there was nor natural enemies nor challenge for me;
2) As Lokhir the issue was the absence of Ind and "Indochina peninsula" so after FV there were nowhere to continue raiding and pillaging using Black Ark as a support;
3) As Malus there is no challenge in general, i fought 1st battle manually at turn 9 and it was his quest battle (which was still in south africa before todays patch). The only unit i was recruiting until i could lvl up my Black Ark to lvl 5 was dread spears. The Archaon was so weak that he ended up not crushing Kislev after 180 turns...The most fun i had when i swapped Malus in other army to hunt down Valkia and i had to win her almost 2 stacks of mid tier Khorne units just by Malus and caster (the rest of amy was again Dread spears);
4) As Vlad its just a speedrun campaign. You can expand as fast as Vlad's army can go. Its not as cumulative for economics as with Dark elves right now but can do the whole campaign without recruiting a single unit: just raise the dead. The more casualties you had last fight the better units you will raise next turn. And the best part: almost everybody on a map you hate you so you can expand in any direction! Well that is a bit subjective "positive" point but its part of the charm of Vampire courts campaign :)
Pretty much agree 100% with your ideas. Let's hope CA continues to listen to the community and continue improvements to the game and factions alongside new dlc.
I agree with most of the list tho personally i quite enjoy the dark elves., When it comes to Kislev they need to just update the whole influence mechanic to include boris or do something completely diffrent for him.
The only thing i think Cathay needs (aside from filling out the unit roster) would be a more active mechanic both with the caravans and with the compass, both could be easily fixed by letting you recruit units to your caravan via allies and have added active effects at the end of each compass option, the current one mostly just use 2 of the options anyway, alternatively they could make it so the compass options are diffrent for each lord, for example instead of the attrition at the wall zhao ming could have faster caravans as one option
Also Norsca currently doesn't have the ability to replenish troops from battles. They just dont have the button
First time an in-video commercial is actually fun to watch.
You've let your Skaveness show at 17:53 😂 thanks for the vid and your point of view on the actual state of some factions!
Super helpful video, I find myself really agreeing with your comments for the factions I've played a lot.
Also i find the Champions of Chaos dlc had really helped the mono god races
I think tomb kings suffer a bit from the bigger map, as there's a lot more enemies coming at you and you don't have that many armies for a long time, makes the early game a bit of a waiting game defending multiple towns. Maybe give them extra army in the beginning, then make the buying new stacks later in the game a bit cheaper, so you can address the late game easier when everyone comes at you. With beastmen you get to the point where you can make a new stack every 2 turns at turn 60-80 for me. Also one thing that should be corrected is that if you request army from an ally, it takes an army slot, but that's more of a feature bug.
In my Khalida campaign, I counted armies from nine different factions coming my way in one turn and most of those factions sent two or three armies. I had wanted to collect all the books but I gave up and just blitzed to the victory conditions before I got wiped out. I barely made it. It was a grueling campaign and I hated it. Arkhan went a little bit better early on but the late game was about the same, though not QUITE as bad. Like you said, being capped on your armies gets rough when the whole world decides they don't like you. I managed to get all the books this time, but barely. In both cases, I was just racing to complete my goal before my entire empire collapsed around me.
Just started playing Warhammer Total War games last week and holy moly this Immortal Empires is the best Total War experience ever. I have been a longtime Total War fan and a longtime Warhammer fan, but I’ve had an aversion to trying the Warhammer total wars for years… for some reason I thought it would be like putting ice cream on pizza-two things that I really like, but together are trash 🗑. I was so wrong. This not only scratches every itch as a Warhammer fan, but it’s the best TW experience in its own right. Highly customizable heros/generals/agents(and so many different kinds, that can also fight in battle); where other TW games had hopefully a cool faction mechanic or two, these factions all have like 6 unique mechanics… I’m playing as Har Ganeth rn and have slave labor, sacrifices to the gods, a horde in the form of my “Black Ark,” vassals that spawn and give me money if I declare a Death Night, the list goes on… this gaming experience is so deep; and on top of that you have the most varied aesthetics across different factions of any TW game; I am also very happy with how there is obvious influence from the Tabletop, such as using your agent in battle, not just on the campaign map. A massive map, and so many factions to choose from… And so much attention to the lore I love. This game is incredible. Tbh as a Warhammer fan the one thing that does seem glaringly missing is that there is no army painter of any sort. I know that might seem trivial if you weren’t a Warhammer fan before but it is kind of strange… customizing an army’s colors is an essential part of the Warhammer experience (and a good amount of people collect the minis solely for this reason). That said, the game is great despite that one missing piece.
18:00 "It's not the Skavens fault, the game just needs to change."
This is the most Skaven-like explanation ever.
I know you don’t love making tier lists, but I personally love them. Good vid, brother.
I would love to see a "what race needs content" tier list like you mentioned at the beginning of the vid.
When you talk about Tomb King, especially the confederation to increase Hero's capacity, I already think about the available increase army cap that also increase the cap of hero by 1 or 2 total (if 2 then it must be 2 different types, no type can repeat twice so essentially 2 each after 3 cycles)
I recently started a coop campaign with my buddies as Malakith and I think part of the issue is that every Dark Elf army winds up being the same.
Dread spears, Dark shards, then get Shades. I'd love to use Black Guard or Executioners, but those are Tier 4 units and by time I get them I'm in the ass end of nowhere miles from Naggarond.
The only time I've changed it is as Hard Ganaeth using Witch Elves and as Fellhesrt spamming Corsairs. Otherwise there's no reason to deviate.
For the Geomantic Web I don't think the bonuses being passive is necessarily an issue, they just need to be more obvious. Like, more than just buffing Commandments. Like at a high enough Geomantic Web Itza gets barrier on Saurus when they fight in their own territory, Sotek gets massive Casualty replenishment on Skinks etc
Vampire Counts need the ability to choose to support Order or Chaos at some point. Thematically, they end up turning to Order (And Vlad was never inherently evil to begin with).
Being able to choose who to increase relations with would be a start to making them feel better until Neferata comes with some reworks.
Anyone else wish theyd give each character one more suitable terrain type so they can have more unique campaigns with their favorite factions?
I would like unpleasant terrain to become pleasant terrain as you control more territory in it and your race learns to live in it. Humans have adapted to living in different climates, why can't warhammer races do it also? Only unpleasant though. Uninhabitable should remain uninhabitable. Even go for uninhabitable being outposts rather than full cities. Which human or high elf would want to live in the chaos wastes.
One overall thing that I wish would change is agent actions becoming more impactful.
Like burning ammo, demoralizing the enemy, establishing cults actively, cult mechanics in general.
Cathay needs a replenishment and ammunition increase hero