Episode 49: Starrcade 1997
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- Опубліковано 25 сер 2024
- Join Tony Schiavone as he re-visits the 20 Year Anniversary of the biggest show in the history of our great sport, Starrcade 1997! After a 17 month build, the nWo storyline had all built to this. It would be biggest financial success in WCW history but did it deliver creatively? The entire event would be shrouded in controversy: WCW had to go to great lengths to get Malenko in the ring, Raven was advertised but not ready, Flair was out with an injury for his rubber match with Hennig, Bischoff is wrestling his first match ever, Konnan no-shows a match on a day's notice, Randy Savage isn't booked but finds himself with a ton of leverage, Rey Mysterio and Booker T are spectators in the crowd, the guy who started this "invasion" angle isn't booked on this show but fills in when Kevin Nash no-shows for indigestion, Bret Hart makes his WCW PPV debut... as a referee, Bischoff can't pull off the original twist for the main event, Hogan doesn't think Sting is tan enough, Bischoff doesn't think Sting is in shape, and Nick Patrick "botches" the finish of the most anticipated main event in history... or does he? There's so much going on for WCW and many would say this show was the beginning of the end, but WCW would go on to set new records just eight days later and all through the Summer. So decide for yourself as we dig deep into Starrcade 1997, was it the best of times? Or the worst of times? Enjoy over three hours of this very special edition of What Happened When with Tony Schiavone!
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Starrcade '97 Bischoff was up by three touchdowns, and then when the dust cleared he lost by two touchdowns.
Thank you for pointing out the detail, that Hogan wasn't selling the Sting character. He should have appeared petrified that he had to face this spooky Crow character.
Hogan was behind it all
No, Sting screwed himself by showing up outta shape and pale as Sheamus. You wanna be the top guy, you better stay ready and be tanned, brother. Rule #1
Just one minor thing I'd like to point out. Sting not being tan, it kind of fit for this because all he was doing is lurking in the Darkness. It would have been kind of weird to see him come out with a surfer tan at that point
True
Ok but he still should have been the best shape of his life
Conrad made too big a deal out of the tanning thing. Bischoff's point was that Sting's lack of readiness was manifested in more ways than one. Still doesn't justify the bad finish.
this ppv is top of my list as one of the most disappointing I've ever seen! The finish of Sting-Hogan was an absolute catastrophe. Period.
What are you talking about. The ending was good
This was one pay per view that had to be perfectly executed and they failed in almost every aspect.
@@Phantusa ehhh, what?!?
Tony has no idea about the Mike Jones reference. Back then they didn't want me now I'm hot they all on me.
I think Tony Schiavone spoke volumes when he said, "It was Bischoff's decision, but Hogan was in his ear." When it comes to the Bischoff-Hogan relationship, you have to read between the lines. In Bischoff's mind, Hogan was never a problem because he typically got his way. That said, I think at Starrcade '97, Hogan had better reason than ever to insist on not giving Sting a clean finish because Sting's head wasn't in the game. In turn, it raises the question of why Hogan was so involved in determining the finish if, as Bischoff said, Hogan never did such a thing?
Starts at 6:23
This was a clunky finish. It wasn't a fast count at all. If anything this was to made Bret Hart a damn fool in my opinion. This pay per view was a clusterfunk it made opinion. I felt for Tony Bobby and Dusty cause with all the non showings and that ending. 17 months went down the drain. i don;t blame Hogan and Sting. I felt for those two. Eric wanted to recreate Montreal. Instead it was a whooper. I rated it a 3/10. it felt like this crap was used to create Thunder.
you're right. it made bret and sting look like a sore losers. like they were playing a video game and were losing so they turned off the console to restart the game and unplugged their brother Hogan controller than beat him. Hogan looked like the victim here. poor sweet Hogan he beat sting clean but those two sore losers bret and sting didnt get their way so they cheated and screwed poor Hogan out of his belt. pathetic. completely pathetic. not just that but Hogan was acting terrified of sting during the entire build up. sting was a one man army single handedly taking out multiple nwo members. but here hogan just beats tf outta sting for about 10 minutes I dont even think Hogan took a bump or was on his back at all until the finish. what a joke.
Hulk Hogan politics killed this show. Hogan was part of the reason wcw isnt around today. He was a master politician. He killed lex lugers reign after 5 days and then killed stings run with him not wanting to lose cleanly. I wish sting won cleanly like he deserved. Its unfortunate
Hogan may have been a small part of why WCW ended up on a downhill spiral, but the network was by far the biggest reason why WCW went under. Also, even if Hogan ended up hurting WCW, he's also the reason why it got so huge. Before Hogan, WCW was a distant 2nd to the WWF.
@@JMFSpike great. But he killed it because he was selfish and wouldn't do business properly. So it makes no difference that he helped give them a boost. Rati gs went up higher when Savage and the Outsiders came aboard.
@@thegoughandbordenfamily8234 Oh really? Hmm, I'm afraid you're wrong.
May 27, 1996 Nitro (Scott Hall debut) did a 2.8
June 10, 1996 Nitro (Nash debut) did a 2.6
July 8, 1996 Nitro (after Bash at the Bash when Hogan joined NWO) did a 3.5
December 3(or 4?), 1994 WCW Saturday Night (Macho Man debut) did a 2.6
February 24, 1997 Nitro (after Macho Man joins NWO at Superbrawl VII) did a 3.0
In the year 2035. I can see HULK HOGAN & RIC FLAIR at wwe ppvs like MOOLAH & MAE YOUNG were 10 yrs ago....lol
Ric being MAE...
Flair about Mae's age now
Hey Tony you are so great
Sting should of went over clean, hogan and the nWo go away for a bit..then they somehow screw him out of the title and then sting goes ppv after ppv destroying the top tier nWo guys until he gets hogan again. That's pretty much all of 98 for ppv right there, what a waste of probably the biggest wait for 1 match of all time.
Learn how to spell...and use proper grammar...
@@frehleyisgod this dude put out a really good idea so you bash him like you're some kind of elementary school teach. You're a bitch.
Great idea still don't understand how they fucked that up.
@Lynchology101 naw, you're obviously not making bank with ya shitty non spelling and non punctuation ass.
Conrad makes a great point about so much of WCW's talent not being on the card during their biggest PPV ever. I vaguely remember hearing Bischoff say that it wasn't until '99 they realized they needed to make better use of Bret Hart because of the value of Hart's contract. They spent so much on Hart and they weren't getting any kind of return. This is a classic example of WCW dealing itself a great hand and then somehow not being able to play it well.
One thing they missed is that Nick Patrick had been "rehabbed" for MONTHS and was actually back to being a solid WCW ref (storyline-wise) ..his fast count - which never took place - would've been him going back t his nWo ways, therefore Brett stopping the bell and stepping in would've made sense (somewhat).
in 1997 ,I was ,15 and I thought starrcade was awesome....I don't think wrestling has ever matched the buildup and anticipation that went into starrcade 97....
And the main event happened......
#yikes
Schiavone had it backwards re: Nick Patrick. Patrick had left the nWo earlier that year. The real problem with Patrick being at the center of the controversy is that they're reverting to the heel referee angle, which had already played out. This demonstrated just how badly they botched the handling of Sting showing up unprepared - they were walking over the same territory again.
This might be a hot topic but starcade is a better name than WrestleMania
Watching this in advance on the network to prepare for this WHW all I could think about is I wish there was an option to turn off the announcers like in the video game. It's a shame they talked over such a great opening match between Eddy and Dean. Most of which was merely to emphasize Nash wasn't there and no one was sure who the ref would be in the main event. I think Tony brought each topic up at least four times. Just call the match.
Zy ysko and hall had a run In. A bar after spicoli passed
This is when wcw started to fall and disappointed everyone. Sting was suppose to be this vigilante coming in and taking out hogan and the nwo. For a year and a half they built him up to be invincible and everyone was afraid of him. Sting should have gone over. But nope this is why wcw is not around today.
Cross Roads sting did go over bit Hogan tried to bury him
@@michaelallanrubin2376 All Sting had to do was get a tan and stay in shape. Sting screwed Sting!
Has Hogan ever done an interview in which he discusses what happened with Starrcade 97? I've never come across one that I can recall, but I'd have to assume that someone somewhere at sometime asked him about it.
Tony and Conrad talked about building matches and then not doing them but WWE does that stuff now.
The NWO angle should have been wrapped up at this PPV, but WCW continued to drag it out and water it down.
I agree I hated the red and white nwo reunited the next yr. That is when wcw died in my opinion.
Absolutely ridiculous. The N.W.O split was massive. Go see Sting's pop after joining the red and black. That angle, Like this PPV, was killed by Hogan because he didnt think it got himself over. Hogan didnt esnt sting stealing his thunder so he buried him in the finish. He didnt want his NWO beng secondary to a more popular NWO faction so we got the fingerpoke of doom.
Go watch the fingerpoke of doom match and look at how over Nash is. Hogan was the problem. Hogan all but ensured WCW would fail to surpass WWF in popularity in mid 98 til the company tanked. .
He worked as a top guy for sure, but his refusal to do buisness was the nail in the coffin of WCW.
I agree. I rewatched WCW recently. The wrestling was AMAZING, then NwO came in. Was an initial good idea, however all that happened was they jumped people, no match ended. It became drama over wrestling. It was to the point where you were watching the match, didn't care because you knew a swerve was coming
Syxx for #6 merchandise sales? wow good for pac
Doubt he saw that money, remember what Jericho said his wife bought his figure? The receipt said Hogan lol. I guess people liked his pool ball shirt, only two shirts I ever owned were the nWo shirt and Austin 3:16
Intro song name?
@3:06:00..... TONY.... ITS CALLED A FACE/HEEL TURN..... REFS CAN DO IT ALSO, ITS NOT JIST FOR WRESTLERS
I was 14, I've been a wrestling fan since as long as I can remember but I had started watching RELIGIOUSLY since the "third man" at the bash at the beach. Hogan turning heel was shocking but I was enthralled, I hated the NWO and desperately wanted someone to stop them, and when Sting turned black I was in absolute LOVE with his character and couldn't wait for him to kick Hogan and the NWOs ass into oblivion. When Sting entered the arena on Starrcade I was so emotional, I thought he was literally the coolest wrestler in the history of the sport and was so ready for Hogan to get his ass handed to him, and then after the finish... I felt confused, I was a little angry, and then as I watched for the next year or so everything in WCW started to feel up in the air and convoluted, after the "cattle prod" and the subsequent "finger poke of doom" I stopped watching wrestling for a long time. I guess you could say that Hogan's shitty and selfish ideas literally ruined wrestling for me and everyone else for a long time and destroyed WCW.
At the time it was the biggest. WCW vs NWO was the biggest thing in wrestling at the time. WWF did not seem to matter.
Intro Song Name?
It's a play on the song "we didn't start the fire" by Billy Joel
“Some of the biggest stars in the company... Glacier.”
Huh?
"Sting would come in on Monday, do his thing (really well), get on a plane and we wouldn't see him again until the next Monday."
If he wasn't set to appear and participate in any of that weeks shows then why would you see him? Was he supposed to just show up and hang out at events when he wasn't booked?
They should have gotten hogan and sting in the ring practicing the match weeks in advance to ensure it was perfect. It’s pretty simple stuff. Horrible management
This PPV couldnt ever live up to the hype. All would have been forgiven if not for Hogan destroying the business with his bloated ego. Many of us, including myself, saw Hogan and Flair as two old guys who didnt need to dominate the top of the card.
Push the outsiders and some of the nice midcard talent WCW had a ton of.
Tony is a maybe WWE hof
I attended the Nitro taping the next night here in Baltimore. I hated seeing Glacier get squashed. I didn't care for Hogan jobbing later in the night, either. Then again, his subsequent losses to Sting were even worse.
Sting didn't finish the story
Sting should've squashed Hogan. 5 minute match tops.
I'd love to hear Tony watch the old Stranglemania tapes where ICP was calling the matches.
I love how Tony shits on ECW. ECW matches were more than hardcore, they WORKED like a mofo, their matches were quality, usually fast paced and developed them as good workers. WCW had more shit matches then quality.
Dont bother checking your google hangout, nobody messaged you at 47:48.
Put your fucking phones on mute.
This whole looking from the inside out is the problem and reason why WCW didn't know what to do. Example: you have Ted Dibiase "The Milllion Dollar Man". Randy "Macho Man" Savage, Virgil, The Big Bossman, and The Steiner Bros in a match together... in YOUR FANS EYES AT THAT TIME, and if you are looking at it as Ray Traylor and Mike Jones... your perspective is so messed up because your most of your fans at that time came from and were programmed by that late 1980's WWF product and were looking for a return to that. Why do you think that NWO and Sting were so popular any little thing these guys did. Don't make Ray Traylor midcard trash. Your guys not wanting to job and all of that nonsense - you let the inside have too much control over the outside. You should have really looked from the outside in. Using at that match as an example, that's who the fans already identify with. If you had DiBiase put the Milion Dollar Dream on Virgil, Traylor handcuff and beat someone with a nighstick would have been way more over that if Misterio wrestled anybody. The inside has no clue of how the outside looks at the product. Meltzer does not represent these views nor the internet. Your main fan base identified with the WWF late 1980's product and adding everything around that was key to maintaining and strengthening everything else. Never throw away wrestler legacies, or then what is happening now doesn't matter. Fans see that. That is your consistency. The fans seeing guys become jobbers who are names in their eyes, it just looks stupid. Another thing is that the stronger characters make better matches. Seeing Demolition have a great match against the Hart Foundation is more effective than if you had the Fantastics vs. The Midnight Express in a better wrestling match to the fan base you had at that time... because the more badass characters add to the match. IT'S NOT JUST ABOUT MOVES AND SELLING. It's like if Leonidas wasn't a badass in 300, it wouldn't be the same at all.
How they could have made WCW better at the time? Look at it as what you are trying to sell: this could be real. Fans still had a hard time seeing guys leaving a match backstage and transforming into them all being buddy buddy friends. It was hard for them to see beyond what they see. Until they see it with their own eyes, they see what you want them to see. If it is supposed to be real, stick with that, because it makes your jobs easier. If it is fake, you can no longer have who is tougher as a selling spot. It can only be about spots and antics after that, like what wrestling is now. A punch when it is real is way way more than a punch if it is fake. Next thing, it is obvious that your main draw is that WWF/old school WCW product, so you have all of these possible dream matches and angles. If you planned it out, you should/could have created an alternate WWF in the NWO which is really what people wanted it to be. Keep that war going, and make it as epic as possible. Luger's matches don't look horrible from the outside looking in - DID PEOPLE CHEER FOR HIM? YES. So it was very obviously a different point-of-view from your fans than you guys here have now and Dave Meltzer, which means that your opinions and views are different than most of your fans from that time period. I love you guys and the show, but I hate when people disillusion themselves that the way that fans look at wrestling now is anything like the way that they did back then.
Your Drunken History Teacher .... Alot of GREAT points..... BUT THE "NOSTALGIA" EFFECT OF HOGAN killed everything.... Along with the GOLDBERG B.S.
They weren't all buddy buddy you imbecile
No nobody cares if Big BossMoron hits anyone with a nightstick lol yes ppl did come to watch Rey wrestle
Hogan did it there's no doubt about it sting got paid to walk around and that was Hogan's job to do less for more money the biggest build up in the century and that asshole had a fuck everybody over which means yes the whole Bret Hart angle looks stupid also even for Hogan that was low
6:20 watch along starts.
Light tubes you mean light bulbs