Why Are Italian Football Stadiums So Bad?
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- Опубліковано 6 кві 2023
- Whilst the Premier League, the Bundesliga, and almost every other top league is full of innovative, full, and either recently built or renovated stadiums, Italian football stadiums look like they were built WWII - in most cases, because they actually were.
Few Italian clubs even own their own stadiums, and the consequence is often high rents, poor quality facilities, and revenue that is dwarfed by their European peers, thwarting their ability to compete.
In this video, HITC Sevens takes a look at the role that stadiums have played in the demise of Italian football since the 1990s, why Italian football stadiums are so bad, and why even top Serie A clubs are struggling to come up with any solutions. - Спорт
This video does not take into account Italy's large recession in the early and late 90s, it really led to a lack of investment in stadiums, fans and clubs, meaning people were being unable to afford games. People never came back even when the economy improves, although the Italian elite still get fans in, small and medium Italian clubs never managed to recover their attendances. Mainly because they are in tourist dependant cities with the exception of Napoli (who are seeing attendance increases due to an improvement in performance). There is a reason the largest clubs are in Milan and Turin, the richest Italian cities.
Along with the early 1990s where it had negative or negligible growth, Italy also has had negligible growth in the early 2000s, and negative or negligible growth in the late 2000s through mid 2010s.
Although we are seeing new clubs rise from serie B and above with what looks like new ownership models and more German models
How did Italian football teams manage to spend so much money in the 90s if the country was in the midst of a large recession? Like they were the top clubs spending wise in the world
@darragh O I think it was because we don't have FFP back then. So no issue to to do transfers when you have no money, just wait until got the money
@@samuelevolve184 what? If you have no money, wait till you have some? How the hell does that work in football?
I can just imagine the phone call to Aston Villa from Bari;
“Hi, we’d like to buy David Platt for £5.5 million. We don't have the money, but if you'd wait well pay you?”
“Oh, your a bit short at the moment. Okay, we'll wait till you can afford to pay for one of our best players, but you can have him anyway, as long as you pinky promise.”
What a stupid statement.
Just an anecdote: In 1983 I was apprenticing with my aunt in Milan. My cousin's boyfriend's best friend was a Serie A referee. The boyfriend asked me if I wanted to go to the San Siro, since his best friend would be refereeing AC Milan vs Sampdoria that weekend, so I said, "sure!" I figured since he was a referee, I might even get a good seat. They dropped me off at the VIP entrance, and I was met by the referee, who told me to walk next to him and ignore everybody. Anyone who asked was told I was his nephew ("nipote" in Italian). We kept passing through checkpoints, and the next thing you know, I was on the pitch at the San Siro!
If you've seen the San Siro on T.V., you'll notice there's hardly any room between the pitch and the first row of seats - just enough for the players, essential staff, security, and a few photographers behind the goals. I didn't know where I should settle for the match, so I finally just sat at the end of the Sampdoria bench (still a bench in those days) which was the only place where there was a bit of room. After the game, I wandered around aimlessly through the changing rooms where I met Trevor Francis and Liam Brady. I don't know who was more surprised - me on hearing English spoken in the dressing room or them wondering what this American kid was doing there.
My aunt's maid - who was a diehard communist - saw me on Television and so the next day when she came to work at the flat, she furiously cussed me up and down in Italian that a foreigner could enjoy such a privilege, however brief. Crazy times...
haha what a story! I grew up in Carnago, 2km from Milanello (AC Milan's training facilities), and used to go down to the pitch with my friends and watch Gullit and Van Basten train. My dad was a postman and used to go to the petrol station at least once a day (post in Italy was delivered on a little moped with a teeny tank, refueling was needed very often). This particular petrol station was right at the end of the road leading to Milanello so in fact that's where you were more likely to meet the players. My dad and Gullit even knew each other by name, although my dad was a native of Naples and therefore a Napoli supporter (as am I). One day just before the legendary 1st of May 1988 clash between Milan and Napoli in Naples i was in my dad's car and we pulled up at the petrol station. Gullit was there filling up his car. My dad shouted "hey Ruud, please play like shit on Sunday", and Gullit answered "Ciro, I'll try my worst". And that he did not, since Milan won 3-2 away, effectively sealing the title.
@@JoeMinichino That's a great story too!
You’re a Native American? What tribe(s)? What percentage?
The moral of the story?! You wasted a minute of my life
@@JoeMinichino haha this was fantastic
I went to watch AC Milan vs Atalanta in February. Return flights + tickets for the game cost me £70 with our tickets costing £12.50 (€14) each. The Atmosphere at the San Siro was incredible 👌🏾.
A lot cheaper than an away trip in England the ticket alone would be touching £70 never mind travel costs.
As much as Italian stadiums need work the passion for the game/atmosphere will always outweigh new stadiums
The police have done everything to try and kill atmosphere in Italian stadia over the past 20 years these days I'd highly recommend Sweden and Morocco for the best fan experiences in football
The germans have the best of both worlds. The stadiums are great, and the atmosphere is aswell, AND it's relatively cheap for a rich country like Germany.
An away tticket for a premir league game is £30 so no not touching £70 at all. You dont seem to know what you are talking about. Glad you enjoyed the trip though.
@@captvimes maybe a game like Bournemouth vs Fulham most adult tickets are £40 + minimum
There’s a massive charm to Italian environments. The big games are like nothing else. The league is by far my favorite over the last few seasons. If the Italians ever get their heads out of their own asses they will rival they will rival the premier league, even if it doesn’t nothing in England comes close to the Derby Della Madoninna.
The money difference between the top and bottom for Spain and Italy is diabolical. Even the San Siro looks like a tip due to the lack of funding or rebuilding of stadiums.
Word
La Liga's money gets more convoluted and almost wants to create a class of yo-yo clubs by generating 2 years of media parachute payments for relegation from La Liga.
It’s maddening how relegation threatened clubs in England and Spain can still outspend Italy’s biggest clubs. Shows how much Serie A has really fallen
@@bababababababa6124 literally, clubs in England that I’ve never heard before can sign huge players whilst Italy’s top teams are struggling to even stay financially afloat
@@bababababababa6124 Spain's kind of weird, it creates an incentive to buy up young talent in hopes of creating a 2+ year run in La Liga when promoted as to maximize media payments even when relegated.
Edit: As in almost anyone can be relegated in La Liga if a serious injury crisis hits the squad long enough which creates the incentive to try to finish as high up the midtable as possible in case a team gets such a crisis like 1998-99 Atletico Madrid or that Espanyol team a few years ago. And this creates the strategy to either build around a durable superstar (Celta Vigo and Iago Aspas) or Las Palmas/Eibar build a relatively young core and get promoted method in hopes they stay midtable for the next 3-5 years. In the case of Celta, it's kept them up for a long time as long as Aspas plays.
Finally! The disparity in infrastructure between Italy and the rest of the big footballing nationa in Europe is an interesting question, and I’m glad you’re here to answer it!
He answered so poorly that I am quite sure you lost 30 minutes of your life like I did. And I am an Italian, so I know this topic quite a lot better
@@TSEEMOD_618 Could you summarise it?
@@krisztianbalogh7677 I did a wall post comment above. Look for it
@@TSEEMOD_618 What did he fail to include? And where was he wrong?
@@soundscape26 Again: I made a comment on that
You clearly described the issues related to the Italian football world. It is worth mentioning that Italy's economies has been declining for more than 20 years and the population is aging and shrinking. That makes Italians more prone to oppose private investments in infrastructure and politicians draw their consent from NIMBY constituencies.
Since the massive recession in early 2000s I would say with huge company's collapsing such as parmalat, fiat and many others needed. Government aid
It's not true that makes us "more prone to oppose private investments".
You always have to consider where, how these investments are located, the bureaucracy which doesn't depend on citizens but on the lack of proper Stadia Building Laws into place, and notoriously all of the problems related to possible Mafia infiltrations and needed examinations.
It's not that easy to come up and just do a stadium.
On theoretical level everyone would like to have a new structure making more money and providing local stimulus, but you need to do things right and not just "do it just because"
@@petesmart1983 you are overstating the problem. There were aids, but complying with EU policy on national aids to companies. Parmalat still recovered and was absorbed by Lactalis, Fiat now as Stellantis is the 4th largest global car manufacturer after a series of M&As, Cirio was absorbed by Conserve Italia and still remains a giant food producer.
So, LOL, nope?
@@TSEEMOD_618 so the Italian economy - which is smaller than it was in 1990 and in danger of falling out of the top 10 worldwide - is… fine? According to you?
It’s not like multiple Italian governments have fallen in large part because of economic strife or anything. Carry on.
@@SKa-tt9nm dude if you look at globalization every major economy is smaller than it should have been. Every European one got a forecasted decrease.
There many other major indexes where Italy is gaining space.
Not to full bash on it (which is something I do much more often than you ever do) as italian abroad, but also to define the limits of what can be bashed and what not.
Imagine: despite such declining figures, we still make the top 10. And none in Europe improved their position at all on a global scale
0:02 The case of the Artemio Franchi is interesting. Fiorentina has wanted to renovate it for decades, but the city and state blocked and held it off due to its protected status (it is classed as a sort of monument since it was designed in a D shape for duce i.e. Mussolini). Now an agreement has finally been reached and the stadium will be modernized by 2026.
But no club owns their stadium, the power resides firmly with the City Councils which will not allow clubs ownership. It's all rigged.
@@Harlock2day ask Juventus.
They did not reach any agreement, the mayor just decided to renovate the stadium with the Eu money; the problem is that Eu got angry for that and probably will block everything 😂
@@NoName-ri7wt Juventus belongs to the most powerful family of Italy; they own everything, fiat, Ferrari, Maserati, Alfa Romeo, half of Italian most important newspapers ; they are extremely influential
@De Loller No the EU actually approved ⅔ of the necessary funding. The shortfall is 55m for the whole project, which not only includes the stadium but a remodelling of the whole Campo di Marte quarter.
It's a shame most italian football clubs don't own their own stadiums... i do love the artermio franchi though 😍
well in poland many clubs dont even own the clubs - they're owned by city, not mentioning the stadiums
In Slovenia no club is even owned by the club as well. And clubs don't own stadiums, they are owned by municipalities
@@rozfly1109 there leagues are broke don't make enough money to own such infrastructure.
Lies again? Grab Car Best Dad
I remember in the 90s watching Football Italia on Channel 4. Italian football was so exciting and the atmosphere looked amazing. It's sad what has happened to Italian football.
Italian stadiums have a South American feel about them , they have that weird oval shape to them meaning the two ends are miles from the pitch.
I love looking at stadiums , they all have their charm.
I must admit new stadiums look very much the same , nice to look at but I love the old lower league teams stadium as they have character
I am a fan of Grêmio (Brazil) and we had a stadium (Olímpico Monumental) just like those Italians from this video: oval, with two rings of concrete on top of eachother and a useless athletics track. We made the change to a newer 55,000-seat stadium in 2013 (Arena do Grêmio) and it looks just like a top European stadium in England or Germany with more hospitality and confort. But many fans complain that the Arena it lacks the charm and atmosphere of the Olímpico.
The fact that the designer of the Delle Alpi hadn’t even watched football before is the most brilliant Italian thing ever.
Somehow they managed to employ the only Italian who doesn't like football.
It was for athletics
@@matthewreid2107 The rival clubs paid him to ruin the stadium🤣🤣🤣
And yet juventus enjoyed their most success in that stadium stadio delle alpi 😢😮
That's why back then Juventus management decided to build their OWN stadium.
Thank you, Alfie. Calcio is near and dear to me. Your report was so thoughtfully presented that I hit subscribe immediately afterward.
The FIGC and municipalities (who overwhelmingly own the stadiums and permissions to build anew) resist change through bureaucracy or stubbornness. Only a huge financial change for better or worse will motivate these dinosaurs to adapt.
The subject is sad and maddening. You did a great job covering it.
I think the attendance is not just the stadiums being subpar but because the italian fa is going after ultras and fans by making them sign up with fan cards to attend games. Which allot of people don’t want to do
It’s a good thing. I have watched games in England, France, Italy and Germany. The only place I have experienced racism was in Italy
@@Tdr-jv2nc no it's not. It destroys fan culture which is an extremely important part of football. Yes people like diobolic lead criminal ultra groups but that is more of a general problem with Italian lawlessness. Maybe go educate yourself a bit more go read James Montague's 1312 see how ultra culture has created amazing fan experiences and sold out stadiums in Sweden Morocco Germany and other places where it's actually managed well
@@Tdr-jv2nc Sorry the only place you saw racism was Italy not Germany at all???? Probably because you went and saw west German clubs primarily because they're the biggest.... Hhhmmm well maybe if you knew more about German football you'd know an awful lot of east German football clubs have massive fascist leanings like dynamo Dresden or what about Chemnitz?
@@Tdr-jv2nc Problem is that Germany and France are far worse in terms of ultras but nobody talks about it.
@@darragho6358 Those racist German clubs however are the exact same that use your terminology of "fan culture". It's a racist dog whistle and it has been forever. Real culture is creating an atmosphere where you can go watch a match with your kids. Getting rid of ultras increases overall attendance and atmosphere. It just decreases violence, hate crimes and assholes in the stands.
You should do a video on that time Scotland claimed to be world champions, when they were the first team to beat England after the '66 World Cup Final and it give birth to the unofficial football World championship, a lineal championship that was backdated to the first internationals back in the 1870's
Lol as a Scottish person I thought that was just a jokey way of saying we were world champions because we beat the world champions after 66. Didn’t think there was any sort of unofficial lineal championship though?? 🤔
@Sweaty Haggis Yeah...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unofficial_Football_World_Championships?wprov=sfla1
Scotland jokingly made the claim in 1967, and the idea for the unofficial lineal championship was put together in 2003, the idea for it came from that Scottish joke
they did do the video on the unofficial football world championship a few years ago. you can look it up.
@Toby Pham Yeah, just found it, and whats funnier, I probably watched it, because I also found it in an old playlist...But thanks for reminding me
This is an excellent overview, but it did overlook the Dacia Arena in Udine and the Gweiss Arena in Bergamo, both of which were essentially gutted and rebuilt in place in the last decade and are now far more modern and hospitable than the vast majority of their counterparts.
As an Atalanta fan, so proud that we own our own stadium and are currently rebuilding the stands. Went to see a nerrazurri derby last year, the atmosphere was unbelievable
Interesting video, but as a Real Sociedad supporter there's something to be said. Our stadium is owned by the city council but the club paid the renovation works in practically all of its entirety. Now the club is the "owner" and can use it to host rugby matches, concert venues and change the naming rights to earn a little bit of money with it (Reale insurances pay for it). It was part of the agreement and can be done. Getting rid of the athletic tracks was an investment as they were useless and the atmosphere was colder than ice.
Alfie when are you gonna make one of those but for the Brazilian league? Not specifically about stadiums but about why the league is trying to reform itself a la Premier League (for the second time, and this time with two different groups fighting for two different reforms) and what this crazy club president called Mario Celso Petraglia is doing with "his" club. It's interesting stuff mate.
I went to Frosinone vs Cagliari in December, and Frosinone have a new stadium opened about 5 years ago I think. They’re top of Serie B at present; I don’t know how much the new stadium gives them an advantage, but they are one of my new teams following the trip around Europe, of which I probably have about 10. Also just found out they were initially going to build their new stadium in the 80s, but the project was essentially aborted for 30 years until a favourable council authorised its completion in 2016. This story gives Valencia hope that the Nou Mestalla may be completed in 30 years time too!
Hi Thomas, I'm from Frosinone, I'm glad to know that foreigners have also been guests in our stadium. The construction of the stadium starts with the modernization of the training ground grandstand with the construction of the other stands around it. Work began in 2016 after the first promotion to Serie A in 2015 (second promotion to Serie A a few years later), to give the city a state-of-the-art venue to follow the team. It was inaugurated in 2017 and was immediately considered a pride of the city; low ticket prices (last year and this year 5 euros for the curves, 10 euros for the east grandstand, in case of promotion they will certainly go up next year but it would be a natural consequence), proximity of a few meters to the field and vision optimal in every seat of the stadium have been winning moves. I don't know the real economic advantages but for all of us fans of this "small" city it is a real place to always feel at home.
Modernised or new stadiums rarely bring advantages
@@iamfivestars Interesting. It's certainly true and kind of obvious that if you want people to become interested in coming to the stadium to watch games, the stadium needs to give them the best view of the game possible. It seemed like the old stadium was in a picturesque town centre location just in front of the old town on the hill, but you have nice views of the mountains from the new stadium.
How do you find living in Frosinone? It seems a quiet, beautiful place. I'm pleased to see Frosinone look almost certain to be promoted to Serie A this season. I don't think they've ever survived in Serie A without being relegated n their last two promotions, so hope you can stay up next year!
i was there also
Amazing video and extremely good research once more! You need to make an AEK athens video next! Phoenix club that came back up won the league qualified for both europa and champions league with a stadium built just months ago and sitting top of the league in Greece this season! Couldn't write a better script!
Great video again Alfie. Would love to hear your opinion on the greatest all time xi for each continent. I'm guessing Europe and South America would get more views but I think it would be more interesting to hear your opinions on the other continents.
There's two main factors at play in Italy. Firstly, Italys constantly unstable economy. It fluctuates between being in a recession and not on an almost constant basis. Secondly, majority of stadiums are owned by the local council, not the club. When you combine these two factors together, you can see why nothing major in terms of stadium development has happened in the last 30 years. Milan and Inter have been trying to get planning permission for a new joint and separate ventures for years now and that still shows little signs of changing.
Excellent analysis! As a long time fan of Italian football and especially AS Roma, I can only support what you are concluding. Even when "my" club is one of the few that always has a full stadium with a grand atmosphere. Last October I attended Roma against bottom third of league side Lecce with 62.000 at the Olimpico. But even Roma is now planning to leave the iconic Olimpico and, after the mentioned disaster at Tor di Valle venue, planning a new stadium at Tiburtina in the heart of the city, next to one of the major train stations, and this time it seems the city administration will follow through.
We'll see what happens ;-)
Even though they look bad, each stadium is kinda unique… most of modern stadiums look copy and pasted at times.
Yes I agree modern stadiums have no character.
They look shitty and have been falling into disrepair.
In Europe yes. But in the USA the new stadia they build there for the NFL are really original and interesting.
@@craigstephens93 True, always thought the college football stadiums had a great look about them.
@@craigstephens93 that's debatable
We Roma fans went through a lot indeed. Internal delays, mayor scandal, new mayor forcing a new version, more delays because of the builder. Then, new owners deemed the project outdated and now we're trying for a 3rd time (1st time was in the 1980s but it quickly fell apart because politics).
Otherwise, there is actually SOMETHING happening. Udinese and Frosinone have revamped their stadiums, Atalanta (last stand soon), Spezia, Ascoli and Padova ongoing. Other smaller teams like Südtirol, Albinoleffe and L'Aquila have new stadiums.
Project wise, Parma is probably revamping their stadium very soon. Cagliari might be on the same path after some struggles. Bologna is trying to get started in 2 years (time needed to build a temporary stadium). Same for Fiorentina. Empoli is trying to acquire their stadium to rebuild it. There are also other projects, more or less serious. So it's not so bleak, although the political and economic landscape in Italy really seems quite unoptimistic to say the least. Who knows what the future holds.
Italy is applying to host the Euro 2032 so that may well be the final push the country needs to have a substantial stadium upgrade. That alone won't change stadiums ownership of course.
@@soundscape26 I really hope it's the case. They already failed twice I think. I hope this time will be the right time.
I went to Frosinone’s new stadium this season to watch them play Cagliari. Nice stadium, and a great 2-2 game too. I also like how they converted their old stadium into a public park and have left one of the old stands standing. I’m not sure how their new stadium came about or how much they’re advantages by a new stadium, but they’re top of Serie B at present and look very likely to be promoted this season.
@@thomasjohnson2862 The "new" stadium's main stand was actually partially built in the 1980s, then left abandoned for 3 decades. They then were lucky enough to have a favorable municipal council and everything went super fast.
It's also worth noting that it's a privately-owned stadium.
@@gts1300 Wow didn’t know that. There’s hope for Valencia’s stadium to be completed in a couple of decades time! Not owned by the club nor public authority?
Frosinone was an interesting place. Beautiful spot between the mountains, but barely any people around and the old town on the hill was a sort of beautiful ghost town! At least the football stadium was pretty full and lively
I hope things get sorted out over in Italy! Serie a is such a great league imo, so much history, big clubs...there's nothing quite like the atmospheres they make for a big match. I'm glad to see its growing again in recent times, would love to see the league back where it used to be, or at least continue keeping pace with the big 4
Spain also renew a lot of stadiums in the last decade(Bernabeu, Metropolitano, Ceramica, Anoeta, New San Mames, Benito Villamarin...., And Valencia New stadium maybe one day!)
If you add a running track to a stadium, it takes as much as 50% more concrete (and land) to build it. It would be better to have many football only (or football and rugby) stadiums and a few track-only stadiums for IAAF events. If they insist on including a track in a stadium, retractable or removable seating is a better option than a larger building. Have the seats near the field along the sidelines ON the track during games, and retract UNDER the other seats during track events.
The problem in Italy is everyone has to get their piece. How much money are you willing to pay to get your projects moved through the red tape? It's never enough. It's not just stadiums, it took my cousin over 5 years to get the permits to build his house. Imagine living with your in laws for 5 years while your house is being built and halted at every step so that the right people can get paid off...Italy is so messed up when it comes to these kinds of things. Politicians are corrupt af...
i know someone that had to literally bribe their local council to get a extension on their house approved because they got denied 6 times
The San Siro is aesthetically beautiful but is quite literally falling to bits. I know someone who worked for Inter a couple of years ago, he said the stadium has pretty much outlived its useful life and would cost a ridiculous amount just to bring upto new building standards of today.
And the comments on Italian bureaucracy is bang on the money, my friend said nothing ever gets done in Italy. Bureaucracy and administration kills business stone dead
Great video as always. Any chance to have a video about Maltese Football please? Thank you 😊
This is so random…but I remember running around the town of Hans-Zebbug trying to find a club shirt to buy last summer. I really wanted one of the green and yellow shirts.
Great Video my brother, keep it up 💪🏽
Thank you Alfie for spelling out something of which I've been sort of vaguely aware about Italian football stadiums for some time. As a Canaries' fan it was good to find Carrow Road being used as a unit of measurement, like the proverbial areas of land the sizes of Belgium and Wales.
I always think of Wales being the Imperial and Belgium the metric. Norwich could so with half an extra Carrow Road themselves!
@@jackjude Good thinking! With there being ten letters in 'Carrow Road' make that an extra 'Carro', then.
Great video, as usual. What about a video about the great midfielders of the last 20 years ? Just a way, for me, to hear about Clarence Seedorf. Everybody has forgotten this complete midfielder who is, imo, up there with Iniesta, Modric etc.
An absolute beast of a footballer he was unfortunate to play most of his best football before TV then social media took over football and it became easy to watch foreign leagues. That didn't happen till he was almost 30 so unless you went to his games you didn't get the chance to enjoy his talent unless it was on a highlights show. But definitely hard to find a more complete midfielder then Clarence the guy was genuinely top of pile in everything you needed to be a complete midfielder and was equally good in offensive and defensive situations.
We were at an Italian restaurant yesterday in the UK and the upper floor had been turned into a Napoli room with Maradona murals. Napoli are still a great side and there were some contemporary players on the wall. However, the mural of Maradona had dates and fixtures of some of his best performances (1987, 1988, etc.) and it just hit home how long ago that golden era of Italian football was...
Napoli arent a big team in Italy. This season is a miracle for them. Maradona is like their only star player since Osihmen and Kvara
@@Ninja-gt3zi That's partly the point I was trying to make, it's not that Napoli or similar teams have disappeared but that you can't imagine the best player in the world, as Maradona was, playing in Italy these days.
@@BOABModels Imagine the best player itw choosing to play for a mid table club. Maradona is a footballing hero.
Italian clubs nowadays have no money. That's why they even got a North Korean footballer.
@@baovinh5727 a hero to Cochin seller definitely, but I wouldn’t say he is a hero to world football. Pele, yes. Beckenbauer, yes. Messi, yes. C Ronaldo, yes. Ronaldo, yes. But not Maradona.
I was at the San Siro a few weeks ago for the Milan/Salernitaina game and as great as it was seeing the iconic stadium, the hole in the ground squat toilets were a real eye opener!
1:05 Where are these figures from? There is no way Serie A was averaging anything close to 57,000 fans even back then.
Yeah, Alfie dropped the ball there. It was not even possible to have that average in the mathematical sense given all Serie A stadiums capacities. The average Seria A season attendance in 92/93 was 32.106.
Yup. If I recall correctly, according to the European Football Statistics site the highest average attendance in Serie A at least going back the 60s-70s was around 38,000 in mid to late 80s. 57,000 is a crazy figure - it couldn’t be anything close to it given that average stadium capacity wasn’t even this high.
Some MLS teams have this same issue. My team, the Chicago Fire, are a prime example. The Fire moved back to Soldier Field from SeatGeek stadium (Toyota Park) back in 2020, with hopes of positive impact to attendance and making the Fire more well known through out the city. It unfortunately has made a negative impact and many fans who used to make the difficult trek to the southwest suburbs in the past, wont even show up to Soldier Field despite public transportation being more accessible. A lot has to do with the fact that the Chicago Park District owns Soldier Field and they call the shots on parking and ticket sales. Parking used to be $20 at SeatGeek, but now its $40 at Soldier Field. Not to mention they also ground share with the Chicago Bears (NFL) and they take priority when it comes to match times, so games are played at odd times after August. As a result so far this season, we have the lowest attendance record, with an average of about 12k. Atlanta United's attendance is more than 4 times that on average and they aren't even leading in attendance this season. To be fair, weather has played a huge part in that and attendance is expected to increase now that its getting warmer in the midwest, but we averaged higher than that at SeatGeek (averaged around 16-18k). One saving grace for the Fire is that the Bears have purchased a huge plot of land and are planning to create a stadium of their own in the North Suburbs, which will leave the Fire as the only tenants at Soldier Field. The current mayor tried her best to keep the Bears at SF by announcing a major renovation project, but that failed. However, one of the plans (plan C) included a major renovation for the Fire, as the Fire have also been looking to jump ship as well. With these plans comes a smaller capacity (from 60k seats to around 35k) and a modern Stadium district with even better public transportation options. So theres still hope for Fire attendance in the long run.
A video about this, and MLS stadiums in general, is something I would definitely watch.
As an Atlanta fan I do have to correct you that we are leading the league in average attendance at 49,129 😉 Charlotte is 2nd with 44,474
@@MrSniperFromMars My bad I got my facts wrong, but its still pretty depressing when u consider how historic the Fire are. Back in 2006 (right before we turned to shit) we used to fill the newly built, Toyota Park, every week. There was virtually little to no public transportation options and car was the realistic way of getting there (unless you lived in Bridgeview). Soldier Field has a literal metra stop (train stop) and we barley manage 12k. Its pretty sad, but considering how the club has been run since 2006, its very understandable.
Sad thing for cf is fields is gonna lead the bears to the superbowl this year. Especially when they draft jalen carter
I think people always forget that Calciopoli didn't happen to Serie A, it was done by Serie A. The systemic corruption was only possible because the league was complicit. Italian football suffered because of their own corruption and therefore got overtaken not just by the PL, but by the other top 5 leagues in Europe. It's their own doing.
yup true
Absolutely true, yet here we are again, drowning in corruption. And always the same team, teams
I know it's partly tongue in cheek from Alfie, but the smugness from some English football fans is staggering, when they could find themselves in a similar position to Italy in early 00s if suddenly the oil money dries up, or they get bored of their play things in the premier league and decide to allocate their billions elsewhere. A lot of these things go in cycles, but you'd get the impression that the cycle of English dominance started much earlier and will last much longer, with far more success than the dominant spells for Italy, Spain and Germany. Despite all this it would be very hard to argue England is actually dominating Europe in any way shape or form, I've often heard Prem fans (which most of my friends are as an Irishman) saying relegation battling sides would take Champions League spots in Italy, Germany or Spain, despite the fact that English team have historically not done well in the Europa league against teams from those nations that aren't capable of making the Champions League.
Thing is in the epl, the money doesn’t all come from the owners, it has a huge tv deal split fairly evenly between the clubs, add in the prize money and sponsorship deals, clubs wouldn’t collapse just because Saudi owners left
@@rebeccarimmer6348 ya I understand all that, but there's nothng to say that is going to continue indefinitely, my point is English football is on top at the moment, but it's often talked about in a way that implies that's the way it will always be, when all it takes is some of those owners to leave, not as many big players sign for English clubs, interest abroad moves to the Bundesliga lets say, and the EPL falls back down again.
@@a88senna what comment can you expect from someone literally called Rimmer?
@@rebeccarimmer6348 many clubs wouldn't be where them are now - - Everton e. g is older than. many Italians
As someone that also supports an Italian team after an FM save I always liked they've managed to improve their stadium with two renovations in 2019 and 2021 to a pure football ground. Only about 5k spectators currently but hopefully that grows
I wonder though: Was there technologically the possibility of building retractable stands like the Stade de France in Paris, where you can change the stadium setup instantly from a pure football/rugby configuration to an athletics configuration? But even if it was, the one other issue would've been the €€€, they would've been cost prohibitive.
I like how you described Arsenal's Emirates as "new" despite it being older than what Juve's Stadio Delle Alpi was when it was shut down.
Usually 'new' describes any stadium built after the so called 'European stadium construction moratorium' between 1960 and 1990 - although some people also consider 1940s/1950s stadia 'new' as well and use WW2 as the boundary between 'old' and 'new' stadia.
For example, in the Premier League there have been 60 stadia that have hosted Premier League games, 40 were built 1935 or before, 20 were built 1994 or later - NO stadium built between 1935 (Carrow Road, Norwich) and 1994 (Kirklees, Huddersfield) has ever hosted a premier game!
So that is the clear boundary as to what constitutes a 'new' stadium.
The Stadio Delle Alpi was built in 1990 whilst the Emirates was built in 2006.
@@lordpembridge303 Stadio Delle Alpi was shut down when it was 16 years old. The Emirates Stadium is 17 years old.
@@tdyerwestfield You should have worded your comment better.
"Despite being older NOW"
Nah the Emirate is not older than the Della alpi
You omitted Udinese which has managed to rebuild 3/4's of its stadium quite recently making it the 2nd successful case after Juventus. Most of the rest yes, old charm but not proper by 2023 standards.
Regarding Italian teams in Europe this season, there's also Juventus and Roma in the Europa League and Fiorentina in the Conference League, making it a whooping 6 teams still in competition.
Yeah love hitc but this video could have been better
@@Ninja-gt3zi The video is solid, this was just a footnote because he has shown many current Serie A stadiums but Udinese flew under his radar. It's a good model for other Italian clubs that don't have the financial might of Juventus.
Atalanta and Sassuolo have also redeveloped their stadiums. However these remain very small in comparison to England or Germany and completion of those projects has not really provided any impetus for others.
@@pritapp788 Sassuolo plays in Reggiana's stadium which yes, it's newish but isn't theirs. Their own stadium in Sassuolo is only used for training.
Atalanta, Sassuolo, Frosinone managed the same but ok
Roma, my team, has been trying to move away from the Olimpico in the past 10 years but the red tape brought by the city hall is ridiculous. Many property owners want to have their slice of the cake. Nevertheless, since we had the new American ownership they slashed the prices and offered great packages so that in the past couple of years we have managed to bring more than 60k fans into the stadium for almost every game which was unthinkable 10 years ago when we barely made it over 40k for top games. Milan and Inter have also been filling San Siro in almost every game this year. Udinese, Frosinone and Sassuolo have their own private stadium and most other clubs are desperate to move out from the publicly owned ones. So somehow things are moving to the right direction. Bureaucracy, corruption and lack of high revenues does make it more difficult as well explained in the video. Also, and that's quite important, Juve and other big clubs have too much share of TV rights. In England they are more proportionally balanced giving the likes of Bournemouth enough cash to invest in players, academies and stadiums. In Italy small clubs like Empoli or Udinese survive with great scouting, youth academies and sensitive investments while selling their top players to big clubs.
San Siro is part of my childhood, so many memories in that place. It should never be demolished.
Part of the problem in Italy is you can't put a spade in the ground six inches without it either encountering a thousand year old grave or some building or artefact of "historical significance".
Excellent video as always great work dude
In the halcyon days of Football Italia on Channel 4 the thing that was never mentioned during the games was why the stadiums were half empty. Juventus' average crowds in the late 1990's was 27,000 - in a stadium that held 70,000. The 2 Milan clubs also had average gates around 30,000. What I didn't realise was that none of the teams back then owned the stadiums but had to lease them from the City Councils who had no incentive to put any more than the bare minimum of maintenance into them. So even though most of the best players in the world were in Serie A the clubs were all losing vast amounts of money and totally dependent on sugar daddy owners to foot the bill - quite often in legally dubious ways.
The despised Stadio delle Alpi - which, oddly enough, was one of the most beautiful grounds in Fifa 10 and 11...honestly, it took my breath away every time I played a game there. Funny how some things work!
IRL, that stadium sucked massive shit for many factors: view, acoustic, distance, capacity to fill it entirely (scarce). It was a stupid monstrosity
here in florence, fiorentina's stadium cannot be demolished nor "restructured" because it's considered an artistic monument by the state. a good example of the fact that everything in italy is quite different and over-complicated respect to rest of europe
Weird because it isnt exactly attractive
In Italy few standing red bricks remains of ols houses are called CENTRO STORICO - - Them are eies sore and should be demolished like most of old villages and towns - - Italy needs modernisatioo on a grand scale
An ashke__nasi non-italic city like Firenze should have a lot of shekels to build a new stadium.
Was in the Franchi last September for the home game against Verona, sat in the Fiesole with the Ultras. Definitely got an old school charm and presence about it. It feels old, but I absolutely loved it.
Huge red tape issues with building the new stadium in Florence, despite having broke ground already 🤷🏼♂️ Think the latest word is an collaborative investment from the city Council to rejuvenate and update the Franchi. Will probably miss the antiquated charm though.
I went to a game in Bologna last season. It was like stepping into a time warp but I liked it. Actually it was refreshing to watch a game in a stadium that was not a vanilla corporate behemoth.
Thank you for talking about the running tracks, I hate them so much
I love them. It means the fans can like as many flares as they want and throw them without them going onto the pitch and endangering the players.
Answer: because it's not that easy to build a stadium in Italy. In Italy almost all stadiums are own by public, not by privates. If a private wants to build a stadium, than it has to follow public rules about where, in what times and how to build it. Building a stadium in Italy is not that easy, some times it is a process that demandes decades of waiting: for example, Udinese's first project for the new Friuli/Dacia Arena was made back in 1998, the final project was approved in 2011, in 2013 they started to work on it, in 2015 they finished it. 17 years of waiting from the first project.
Atalanta also did they also renovate there stadium 🏟
I've always thought this, glad you made a video about it
Germany has only 2 very big stadiums with athletic tracks around: Olympic Stadium Berlin (used by Hertha BSC in Bundesliga) and Olympic Stadium in Munich. Since Bayern Munich went to their own Stadium, the city of Munich uses the Olympic Stadium for large concerts and European Championships in Athletics 2022, so it's still in very good conditions (they renovated all seats and lights etc in the last years)
As a Serie A fan, I'm glad to see this covered
. Great job
You seem to be suggesting that the bad optics of not filled stadium is the cause of decline. Honestly I’m not convinced by that. Seems more that the formation of the Premier League led to the movement of the largest amount of funding from them to the Prem, which led to shift in where players wanted to go and what fans wanted to watch, and that led to less interest in Serie A. So the partially empty Serie A stadiums are an effect of that, though one that reinforces the same negative dynamic in terms of funding / interest / development.
I'd reckon that Calciapoli had a significant effect on Serie A's funding as Juventus went from champion to relegated in 12 months.
Italy have put in an official bid to host the 2032 euros. And they’ve put forward 10 cities. Milan,Rome,Naples,Turin,Genoa,Bari, Florence,Bologna Cagliari and Verona so if they are successful you would expect the stadiums in those cities to be renovated or new ones to be built from scratch which would be a huge step in the right direction
During the 90's Italy got hit back from a big recession and investments have been halted in many fields of the Country. Also, now that Italy has opened up to private investments, Serie A benefited from it, since also a number of stadiums have been completely renovated and rebuilt, like Spal, Frosinone (in 2nd tier league Serie B), Atalanta (amazingly redeveloped keeping an eye on the stadium's history!) and Udinese in Serie A, with stores, skyboxes, restaurants and office spaces.
Seria A was the original Premier League before there was a Premier League. All the big players were there & there was the supposed "Top-6" too. These things work in cycles, I believe. That's why, you see there are now 3 Italian clubs in Champions League quarterfinals as opposed to only 2 English ones. Italian football will rise again!
i think so too ,Italian players are more technically gifted , although no big super stars have come through in recent years
@@bonysminiatures3123 More technically gifted than who? All the international players who play in the Premier League or for teams like Real Madrid, Bayern Munich and PSG?
Atalanta, Juventus, Udinese and Frosinone are good examples of modern football projects in Italy
Quick question. When you say about letting us know your thoughts at the end do you mean with regard to your clip or in general? Personally speaking I think dishwashers aren't that useful and I wash up by hand- my wife thinks I'm crazy! But i'm not sure if this is what you are after or not. Very interesting piece though either way, thanks
Great vid. Love the digs too.
Alfie, we do not deserve you, but we love every bit of content you give us.
So basically most of the Serie A clubs are really fucked up in the future, unable to modernize their stadiums, so they will stuck in a slow fall of decreasing ability to compete
this year's champions, europa and conference league round of 16 would like to object your statement
In this video, you said there is a big comparisons between Italy and Germany stadiums that hosted the World Cup, suggesting that Germany (along with England and Spain) was better than Italy when it comes to the quality of the football stadiums.
In the past decades, countries such as France and Russia were also built a modern arenas, which proved better than Italy. When France hosted the Euro 2016, 4 of 10 main venues are completely new (Lille, Nice, Bordeaux, Lyon), while others such as Orange Velodrome and Parc des Princes are fully renovated. Russia's 2018 World Cup was such crazy. Only two of the 12 main venues were fully renovated (Luzhniki and Yekaterinburg). The rest were just a completely new stadiums and were assigned for some Russian professional clubs like:
1.Gazprom Arena: Zenit Saint Petersburg.
2.Volgograd Arena: Rotor Volgograd.
3.Rostov Arena: Rostov FC.
4.Samara Arena: Krylia Sovetov Samara.
5.Kaliningrad Arena: Baltika Kaliningrad.
6.Ak Bars Arena: Rubin Kazan.
7.Otkrytie Arena: Spartak Moscow.
8.Nizhny Novgorod Stadium: Pari Nizhny Novgorod.
9.Fisht Stadium: PFC Sochi.
10.Ekaterinburg Arena: Ural Yekaterinburg.
11.Mordovia Arena: Saransk FC.
Serie A would massively benefit from Italy getting to host another worldcup or european championship.
Milan (as much as I love the San Siro), Roma and Lazio and Napoli need new Stadiums.
Atalanta and Udinese recently modernized theirs. Most of the other teams basicaly lack the consistency on the pitch as well as the fan base to necessitate better stadiums.
Something I do believe you failed to mention is that in order to watch a game in Serie A you need to go through a rather difficult registration process in order to get the "Tessera del Tifoso" which allows for the online purchase of tickets pre game rather than on the matchday at the stadium. Makes planning difficult, especially for tourists.
Why? Why should the National FA pay for club stadia? If a club wants a stadium, get the money themselves and build it yourself.
@@gooddypm I didn't say the tax payer has to pay. But hosting thr event would put decision makers under pressure, perhaps help to ease up some regulaltions and attract investment.
@@markusz4447 neither did I I said the Nation FA. Don't put words into peoples mouths.
@@gooddypm right. The FA certainly doesn't have the needs to pay for even one stadium
Better get that racism problem sorted out first.
Why you lying about the average being 57,000 in Serie A? it wasn't.
It was 32,000 the year the PL came out.
Yes. Check the stadiums size in this time. The 57k AVG attendance just mathematically impossible..
Dude, HITC Sevens (and most of the community here) do poor researches for their videos all of the damn times.
I am Italian. It's not the first time I am complaining here for their poor videos full of stereotypes, no actual facts and a lot or reinterpreted history.
It's awful content. It just reinforces the idea of a parallel views on a thing which never existed in first place
@@TSEEMOD_618 i loved watching football Italia it was far and away light years ahead of the english game
Very good video, very interesting. What strikes me the most when watching Serie A, is the stadiums with athletic tracks. It is so ugly, and feels wrong. The seats are 20m away from the pitch. Even the best seats are mediocre.
Although it felt weird to see Juventus move in a much smaller stadium, and although I don't understand who are the people that pay a lot of money to watch a football game with a luxurious room behind them not why they do that, it seems to have worked out great for them.
Nevertheless, I hope that San Siro won't be destroyed. It's so iconic, and it's so beautiful aswell ! It's a real work of art, the outside is incredible ! I'd like to go there at least once.
Still hoping for that Austrian Wunderteam video 😇✌.
A few small notes: the club in Bari was actually called AS Bari. The name was changed to SSC Bari only after they re-founded in 2018.
Regarding Old Trafford: it's in a terrible state and the owners refuse to put money into it to renovate it. Just one of the many reasons the Glazers are hated in Manchester. Tifo made a video about that some months ago.
I read many comments about the lack of investments in Italy since the late 90s. This is partially true as the Italian economy is shrinking day by day. But the main reason behind the stadium problem is bureaucracy. Trust me. Investments on Serie A aren't dependant on internal market anymore with so many big clubs now in the hands of big Chinese, European or American corporations (see Roma, Inter, Juventus). Italian football still has international appeal due to its history and money might potentially come from abroad. The problem is as soon as these international actors try to put their stadium plans on the table, Italian bureaucracy (whether at city, region or State level) constantly and invariably hijacks them.
AS Roma, under its former American ownership, spent 5 years pitching its privately financed stadium project. The club wasn't able to get the building permit though. Just to simplify things, the municipality of Rome gave its ok and the club reached step 2 (regional level approval). While regional offices were processing the project, first the authority for cultural heritage challenged it on the grounds that the old hippodrome on which the stadium would be built had to be preserved, then the city council changed and the new mayor withdrew the city's authorisation, forcing the club to start over from square 1. AS Roma complied, but, as soon as the project reached step 2 again, the land developer who had partnered with the club since the start of the procedure was prosecuted for corruption (he had been trying to "speed things up"). Long story short, after 5 years and millions of euros invested just to get started, the entire project came to an end. When the Friedkin Group bought AS Roma, Dan Friedkin decided to archive the old project and start over again, moving the building site from Tor di Valle to Pietralata. We're currently close to the completion of the first step (council approval), but you can bet that something will happen sooner or later along the way.
Inter and Milan have been forced by the Milan city council to change plans at least 3 times in the space of 2 years and haven't even managed to complete step 1 as Roma has done twice (now almost three times). It's UNBELIEVABLE.
Please tell me how a foreign investor can even think of building a new stadium in Italy, committing to this crazy, foolish, ever-lasting game of the goose. It's a miracle somebody is actually trying and this fact alone speaks volumes about the potential profitability of Italian football (which is huge IMHO).
i personally don't think Italian stadiums are bad, i like that retro 'street' look that's what makes them more enticing, more than some concrete jungles they have in Bundesliga and Premier League or in the US. Football was always a sport of the working class. it moves from the street to the pitch and it's natural and simple, that's why so many people love it. Now you have this new generation which is trying to modernise everything and promote the sport to fit the narrative of entertainment like NBA or NFL.
i love Genoa's stadium
Hey Alfie, could you do a video on Glentoran and or their 1914 Vienna Cup? Their stadium alone has seen plenty of history, especially off the field as it’s right next to the shipyards and was even bombed during the Belfast Blitz. The Historical Belfast podcast did a fine piece on it but I feel Glentoran deserve the HITC Seven’s treatment. Also, George Best was turned down by Glentoran as a boy because he was “too small.”
"The architect had never watched a game of football in his life" the guy should be disqualified as an architect
San Siro is so old that in the last few years they have partially closed the upper part of the stadium, because there was some risk of crashing down (during matches pillars were vibrating too much). As an inter fan, even if i love the stadium (i even played a couple matches there since it's used also for smaller football events) we need either to renew it or to build another one. Knowing italy, it will take AT LEAST 10 years from when they have all the permissions (which any team won't have anytime soon).
Shoutout to my local club Frosinone, one of the few exceptions in the Italian football stadium landscape💛💙
I checked it. Really neat stadium... reminds me of a smaller Friuli.
good luck next season andrea
Great video! 20 years ago it could have been on television as a sport related documentary.
Maybe with 70% less of mistakes due to poor research and 120% less in stereotypes, for sure
There's a bigger difference than inflation between Italy in 1990 and Germany in 2006. The way that stadiums are designed and built changed.
Italy's stadiums look like just like the old days when you had stands with rows of seats, and nothing else.
Modern stadiums offer a lot more. A much better experience for fans but also additional revenue streams (from more food options, stores to sell team merchandise, suites, etc.)
These stadiums also cost a lot more to build. They'll need to invest billions to build these stadiums and try and get fans back with a better fan experience. They'll need to put a lid on any ultras, just like the EPL had to do, so families would want to go to games.
One example of another option is what happened to La Real’s (Real Sociedad) Anoeta. It used to be an old outdate stadium with running tracks and terrible views. Now Anoeta is a state of the art facility that stands where the previous one also was. There are solutions to modernize clubs facilities in more than one way.
No way this popped up on my feed, right before I go watch the Lazio vs Juventus game 💀
Big brother is watching you.
The Italian ultra scene is beautiful (not when it's violent) so imagine when they're in beautiful and worthy stadiums that's packed with affordable ticket prices like in Germany? 😞🇮🇹
Fans sit so far away from the pitch at most Italian stadiums. In an age where the TV-product is so good, the stadium experience needs to be better.
The problem is that:
- football became away to launder money for many international billionaires and use it as a marketing tool.
- a lot of sport is becoming mere money-making entertainment industry for a global market with no belonging or local roots anymore. Sport is a different thing: it’s about passion, belonging, attachment to the jersey. Modern international football is pathetic business with a marketing spin (see PSG )
I remember that the 1990 World Cup was the first World Cup I had ever seen in my life, I was 6 years old. One thing that currently strikes me (going through the list of world cup venues) is that most of the stadiums weren't really football stadiums: they were Olympic stadiums. More than half had Olympic tracks. In other words, much of the infrastructure inherited by that World Cup is practically useless. Obviously it was a lousy approach from the organizers of that World Cup.
Italian football is still stuck in the football of 20 years ago from many points of view. The fact that it took so long for a club to own their stadium is nuts.
If I was such a huge club like Inter or Milan i'm giving up San Siro and making my stadium. Of course it's a MASSIVE investment but it is key to a great football club.
Both Milan and inter Milan have been advocating to build new Stadium since early 2010 but like he said something look like corruption by the municipality, the government, almost all serie A clubs are pushing to build new stadium
One word: Burocracy. According to European Quality of Government Index, Italy is the worst (apart Greece) to manage his burocracy, especially in South Italy. This costs at least 31 Billion to small and medium companies. Criminals organisations going hand in hand with Italian Government is the main cause of badly mismanaged burocracy.
If you think Italy stadiums look bad, take a look at argentinian stadiums, everything there is football but their stadiums looks and are terrible, even compared to others in the Americas
The way you describe the evolution of Italian football sadly reminds me to Uruguayan football within the exact same timeframe.
Decaying infrastructure that's leased (except for the two big teams nobody owns a stadium), economical disparity with the rest of continental leagues, and teams who used to be competitive worldwide suddenly becoming irrelevant.
I don’t think I’ve seen you do it before. But I’d like to see a ranking of the top 7 atmospheres in football in terms of fans on top of the field.
I love groundhopping in Italy. Football like in the old days. Feels like going to an air port when visiting the Etihad. I can say Genoa, Napoli, Bergamo and Udinese where great venues to visit.
As you said the biggest problem is that you literally cant build new stadium because you will never get permission. Examples in Rome and Milano describe the story. 2nd problem is Juventus build new venue and it looks good and make more money but reality is that its dead like stadiums in PL. FIGC will bid for 2032 Euro and that can help with renovations because I cant see the World where will laws change and where would be possible to build new stadium on your own. Its a shame that in 2nd best league rn is 4th biggest attendece 13k behind Germany 9,5k behind England and 0,5k behind Spain
If FIGC is in charge of the bid then Italy can forget about hosting anything for the next half a century. It is an organisation managed by clueless people who can't convince anybody about their competence.
Thanks for this Alfie. I've always been the hipster Juve supporter that praised Serie A back in the day for its sustainability and great competition. Man things have changed DRASTICALLY. As soon as I saw practically the same exact squad in 2010 WC that Italt fielded in 06, I knew there was problems. Football has evolved (for better and for worse) and FIGC left the leagues clubs an national team in the dust
Great video! I'm italian, it's a shame bureaucracy always gets in the way. However, Italy has just submitted a bid for Euro 2032, which I hope they will win because it will force them into rebuilding their infrastructure or at the very least updating what's there where a rebuild is not possible. Serie A and Italian football is among the top nations in the world for tradition, it deserves a lot more attention than it receives, and it always upsets me when you have young PL fans calling Serie A "farmers league" because of the stadiums' conditions (which in turn they think it reflects in the quality of football but clearly this year is telling a different story...)
San Siro, Allianz Stadium, Olympic Stadium, Maradona Stadium are I guess the only Serie A stadiums still up to snuff for international standards compared to the EPL, La Liga and Bundesliga (even if only barely at times). The rest? Not so much. And fact: I remember that already in 1998, Serie A stadiums were very empty on matchday. Germany was in a similar situation but the success of the 2006 World Cup has given the Bundesliga a sustainable boost it needed to bring asses to the seats. But for Italy, even the effect of winning the World Cup did not last long in the Serie A, not to mention that ever since, they missed the World Cup twice. Calciopoli didn't help, and I'm sure the current scandal with Serie A teams cooking the books won't either.
A very comprehensive analysis of why our stadiums suck.
I also agree with the fact that at this moment the biggest obstacle is italian bureaucracy: Rome, Milan, Florence are places where the owners are very willing to spend for a new stadium but somehow they are not allowed
Dude, with all due respect: his analysis sucked and it was full of stereotypes and it was overall a huge waste of time
stadiums, and to a larger extent infrastructure, is a bright shining light as to why italian clubs are pushing so hard for a superleague. the money in italy has dried up so harshly that they need the superleague to catch up. not only does italy not have the deep pockets of the other leagues, the sport is not like it is in the US where they can just threaten relocation to another city if they cant get proper funding taken care of.
Bro the money dried up in Italian football and Italy as a whole in the 90s as there was huge recession in the Italian economy and at that time they were still the best league itw
Not building stadiums has nothing to do with money, every team has money for new modern stadiums
@@alessiovalentini4401 yeah but the clubs don't own the stadium. The initiative of stadium renovation or building new stadium can be taken by the municipality or the state government
Italian clubs are not pushing for the superleague - the three striped-giants are. Big difference
It's only the non-italic clubs of the north who are pushing for the superleague. North Italy is genetically ash__ke_nasi, they don't have italic dna, they have a lot of shekels.
Some of the more basic looking stadiums with no roof are often in the south where the weather tends to be pretty good for a lot of the season. A stadium in England with no roof would be a disaster by comparison.
You finally mentioned Atalanta! Surely they are an example in regard to this subject of what can be done on a more megre budget and the Gewiss Stadium is relaly coming along. But, this was an excellent article.
@19:36 actually 40k is more than enough. Juve fanbase is all over Italy but in their own city they support Torino. They can’t create the atmosphere that Milan clubs Napoli and Roma create. They cant even compare to Salernitana. The new stadium attendance is perfect for Juve otherwise they would have more empty seats in normal league games
But there are alot of empty seats even in a 40k stadium for Juve when they aren't playing the big clubs
@@paramtageja6891 exactly my point a 40k stadium was done on purpose
@@paramtageja6891 they literally said *more than* enough.