Unsolved: 44 Magnum Over-Pressure Mystery
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- Опубліковано 12 чер 2019
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Update: This was solved! See: • SOLVED! 44 Mag Overpre...
WHOA! I'm getting pressure signs from 44 Magnum like I've never seen before, and I'm not sure exactly what's going on! Watch the video, and please share any experiences or ideas you have!
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Update: This was solved! See: ua-cam.com/video/-8AcVm3bHAI/v-deo.html
Move the powder into a new cartridge.
Take the old cartridge and pour new powder.
Winchester Primer is undersized . Try loading with a cci primer . Or primer pocket worn out .. also could be too much crimp on the bullet .
Ricky Racine agreed! I had the same issue with Winchester rifle primers. They are undersized and loose in the pocket. I was getting scoring on my bolt face due to gas escaping around the primer. CCI primers solved the issue.
That makes sense to me. I don't have experience with that primer or caliber, but the logic is sound.
I'd guess not enough and some rounds are getting setback
I guess you're an email subscriber then? @kyle @ricky
Did you ever solve the issue? It seems the consensus is to switch to CCI primers.
Longshot, but have you checked the diameter of the pulled bullets? Maybe it's possible that you got a bad batch that are slightly oversized?
I would agree with this. You should check everything; oversize primer pockets, oversize flash holes. The packaging for that batch of powder, and primers is probably long gone so it would be impossible to check the lot numbers for those with hodgdon and Winchester for recalls.
Yep!; Agree with Mac. Since there's no case-stickin', I'd suggest to mike bullets & slug both bores & chamber throats...🤔
Agree! XTP bullets are already larger than normal jacketed .44 cal bullets. I've seen more than 1 lot that had some variations in diameter that almost mic'ed at .431" as opposed to the advertised .430".
You didnt say the cases were sticking on ejection. Thats an early sign of over pressure. Therefore I think you have a primer issue. Loose pockets or something.
Possible dirty primer pockets? Gas seems to be exiting around the primer.
A rare possibility is the “welding” of the bullet to the case mouth. To test this, seat the bullet on these loads several thousands deeper and fire. If the over pressure signs disappear it could be this entity or over crimping. What a great hobby. Always things in work out.
Over size primer pockets would be my guess .
I'm going with out of spec primer pocket, could be enlarged due to multiple reloading, I do note, after seveal reloads of the same case, the primers do seat more easily..
I agree. Good point.
I think at this point I would look at bullet seating depth (consistency of your seating die).
Then, I would check the primer pocket circumference consistency (could primers be loose) & primer pocket depth. Since it’s .44 Mag & your probably not swaging or cutting the pocket, so this may be a long shot....Looking forward to the cause.
Drop half a grain. H-110 has a 1 grain window between min and max load with a 240 grain bullet. H-110 is also temp sensitive. Try a cci standard primer. Lights off H-110 just fine in 44 mag, and you will have a lower SD than with mag primers, and better accuracy.
Make sure the crimp is holding, and the bullet isn't moving back, compressing the powder.
That would be true for a semi auto, but this is a revolver. Unless he is using a hammer to insert the cases into the cylinder. There should be no pressure on the bullet to cause it to shift deeper into the case.
@@jamespierson9312recoil alone can cause bullet setback, it can happen in heavy recoiling rifles such as the. 458 Winchester magnum, and because these revolvers are lighter weight, they will have even more recoil.
Switch to cci primers. Winchesters are notoriously soft and possibly slightly undersized.
Me too, plus it's easier to seat chrome plated primers than plane ones.
@@Oldhogleg They're just nickel plated, not chrome.
@@cawpin LOL, brain fart!
I would agree. Federal are also good.
Remington & Winchester use to be much better than they are today.
CCI has had some issues at times with SR & LR but have been fine lately. Federal has proven to be quite good for our family for over 25 years.
I was going to recommend getting rid of everything in the shop and buying everything brand new... JK
Have you checked your primer pocket dimensions against new brass
I was just about to type the same thing
@@senavicente it's about the only thing I could think of besides the powder he mentioned
What bullets are you using? What about your oal? What crimp did you use?
Heavy crimp with cast bullets that are seated deep will all cause pressure spikes.
I would think loose primer pockets... or if the primer pocket is cut excessively deep the primer will allow some gas to escape around it before it flattens and seals.
I would also check the over all length of those rounds. Measure using an ogive tool as well as just oal and compare it to similar rounds from your other box of loads. Maybe the round is seated deeper creating a compressed load. Another thing to look at is the volume of the cases. You can measure the volume using water. If that particular batch of brass is thicker it will have a lower volume leading to increased pressure. Would love to know what you find.
I ran into this exact problem 30 years with H110 in my S&W 58 in .41 Magnum. Had the same cratered primers, split cases, etc. Weighed each load, no problem. Finally, if I remember correctly, it was announced that the burn rate too fast for certain batches. I suggest trusting the pressure indications, back off two grains, and see if your pressure indications don’t lessen or disappear.
I agree with others on Winchester primers. It may seem odd but I have had experience loading for and shooting a primer actuated rifle. We used Winchester primers because they are slightly under sized so they move well in the primer pocket. This is great for primer actuated but terrible for normal rifles. I have actually had Winchester pistol primers completely blow out of 7.62x25 tokarev case when fired from an open bolt ppsh41. Bad news and jam city
I run the same load with no problems.. Thanks for the heads up .. I will be looking more carefully
Gavin, i was having the same issue with a similar loading. Switched to CCI Mag primers, and the issue went away. With Win primers the crimp on the bullet exceeded the ability of the winchester primers to stay seated in the pocket causing the flattening and leakage.
I might check the case capacity of the brass. Looking for variance from case to case. Also the primer deformity can result from bullet set-back. Lastly, when I loaded 44mag back in the day I had to mindful of the roll crimp in the bullets cannelure, if in fact yours has them. I had a tendency to WAY over crimp in the groove. And yeah, some rounds felt a little "spiky". Good luck man !!
might check the case capacity of the starline brass. Their 308 is a little closer to 7.62x51 than other brands of 308, could be the same with the 44 mag brass.
Over the course of three years, jacketed bullets can sort of "weld" themselves to brass cases. It is not especially consistent, but it does happen. If it does happen, you can have massive pressure spikes. This is just one of the reasons you should not acquire somebody else's reloads and actually shoot them. You should also shoot reloads within a short period of time.
use standard Magnum primer and do a small burn rate sample from new can of powder and what you loaded thanks gavin 👍 be careful
Good idea!
@@Ultimatereloader I use power pistol it's a good one
having worked at lake city for 30 years i would suggest to you that you take a blackened primer and one that is not and have a chemical analysis done on the two primers to see if one may have been hotter than the other mixes do vary minutely from time to time and could cause this problem all though it should have been caught it may not always be caught
Had that problem with old reloads. You need to set the die lower and break the seal. Was told by a gun smith that possible corrosion between cooper and brass.
Try shooting in a colder environment and see if that changes anything. Apparently some powders are more temp sensitive than others.
Thanks for sharing. Temperature has a lot influence when reloading. what was the outside temperature when you shot these rounds? The brass appears to be showing over pressure and i suspect if you shoot this load in cooler temperatures you should not see the same result. Recommended down loading this a 1/2 grain or two for summer loads.
Two things you did not investigate, brass & primer. Primer pocket dimensions, primer diameter. The least difference in fit tolerances will allow a possible pressure bleed.
check the case diameter with bullet seated, could be the brass thickness.
I would say It's the Winchester primers. I had the same problem with my 357. I had to load at a lower charge in the manual with H110 to prevent cratering and flattening of the primers.
Magman44.JH Me too. I also tried those primers with Unique. I had pressure spikes that were 200fps higher than average.
I know Winchester had a batch of large rifle primers where the temperature on the primer cup was too hard and it was causing fracturing and gas leaking making it look like the round was way over pressure but it wasn't. In fact I believe they had a recall about this.
Thanks, I'll look into that!
I think you are right. I remember seeing something about that not too long ago about a Winchester Primer Recall. I cannot remember where or when. lol
I just looked on the Winchester website and nothing is listed for their Primers. So it might have been last year or the year before. But I do remember seeing something on a couple of the Hunting/Shooting programs on TV and a couple of shooting/hunting websites not too long ago. It might have been last year around this time. You could check with Winchester about it.
Did you check COLto make sure bullet isn't seated too deeply? I agree with other comments that it would be worth trying a different primer, paying attention to fit when you press it in.
I really enjoy your content. Just started really getting into your vids. Therefore I am a year behind.
I have been shooting & reloading 44 mag since 1985. I have been hunting deer with 44 handgun & rifle since 1992(I think:93?). I have shot literally thousands of 44 through S&W 29/629, Ruger Blackhawk & Redhawk. H110 & W296 have always been my preferred powders.
23-25gr. under 240s. When XTP was introduced, I adopted it for deer. Always effective. I haven't seen this.
We bought brass bulk(500-1000)
Starline is a thicker case wall.
I have seen split Remington nickel from reloading too many times(brittle). We had poor Remington primers poking holes at firing pin. Back off to 23.3 or 23.5.
May have a case volume issue.
Couple of ideas. Try another pistol. Your primer strikes on those soft under sized primers looks pretty deep warping them. Like the rest of the comments go with the CCI primers.
Did you size your case before reloading? Measure length with micrometer? And then cut case down to size. I still believe is that the crimping pressure used varied crimping bullet. Or you may be starting to compress powder if that close to maximum load, slower burn building pressure in case before bullet or projectile leaves the case.
Reloaded 44 Mag for handgun metalic silhouette matches in the 90's. Obviously full house loads. Tried Blue Dot, Unique, WW296, H110 and others. CCI primers, mostly R-P brass. Hornady 240 FN FMJ. Had acceptable results, but the WW296 gave highest mv, most precise, least perceived recoil.
I'd recommend checking primer pockets w/guage pin, mic your primers. Interference fit required, but I forget how much. I know it's tedious, but big sample size is worth it. Good luck.
BTW, I never experienced any flash through, ever.
I load a lot of .44 magnum for my 6" S&W 629 & Big Boy Henry. Generally do not load on the hot end of power weight. Any possible seating depth or crimping issues? How do you clean your primer pockets? And could the primer pockets with the primers being used not seal as well as they should? Great videos by the way.
I agree with those that have said Go to CCI primers ! Never had problems with them. The wins are soft. It could also be worn out brass. Shooting Max charges will ruin the brass quickly. Even expensive Star line brass!
I use the same load in my Deerfield carbine. After maybe 4 or 5 reloads the primers start to leak from worn out pockets. I always thought it was caused by the semiauto action... the Deerfield is hard on brass if you can find them. I use the same brass, powder charge and bullet, but cci primer.
Use CCI primers as the fit a little tighter in the pocket and may seal better. I have seen some loose pockets although rare in Starline brass...
I usually load Blue Dot 16.2 grains behind my 240 grain bullets for best accuracy... 1375 fps from the 8 3/8 S&W 29
I have hand loaded for 54+ years. If the powder was bad, it would effect every cartridge fired, not a few. If the primers were bad again it would effect all loaded rounds. I believe it was the brass with an inconsistent oversized primer pocket, due to the random nature of the anomaly. Try that load with a different brand of brass.
Had the same problem with cantamination from my brass. Case lube or moisture from wet tumble. Never found out which it was I just made sure my brass was dried well and only light lube on the outside. Problem went away.
Hope you figure it out.
I had this issue with 45 Colt in a SAA copy(Uberti). I was using starline brass also which turned out to be the problem. After I determined there were no dimensional problems I switched from Winchester primers to CCI. Didn't help. Then switched to Winchester brass and no more problem. The starline primer pockets were oversize.
Without extensive measurements of the subject cases one cannot say for sure, but it appears that you may have some over length cases.
Over length cases might press against the chamber forcing cone and prevent the cylinder from closing prior to charging with powder and seating of bullets. However, if you crimp the case heavily, as you should with H110, the cartridge may appear to chamber correctly. When the cartridge is fired the bullet pinches the case mouth against the forcing cone walls causing a great spike in pressure due to the interference fit. It does not take much interference to cause this effect, and since it appears to be happening with just a few cases out of the box I would think this has a good possibility. Some new brass comes with varying over all length, and needs to be checked prior to loading.
I'd change the variable components in different rounds, while tracking which chamber each one its shot from. You'll narrow down the odd variable.
Take note of which chambers in the revolver the are showing the issue. Could be a timing issue. If it is always on the same Chambers the revolver may be slightly out of timing and the extra pressure is caused by the bullet just be a couple thousands out of alignment with the barrel forcing cone. This would definitely lead to a change in pressure from one chamber to the next. I hope this helps and problem solved.
1. Check your scale calibration. Also, put what you are weighing in the center, not on the edge... makes a difference.. round or specially square base scale. 2. Check your primer pocket dimensions, make sure they are in tolerance. 3. Dont know how, and probably too late, but could have had some over powered primers, and my reasoning for that is because your powder charge seemed correct, as your velocities were down. If you have any more of those primers, same batch, "I doubt it" weigh them one for one. If you have to, and you are serious, break all of the loads down, measure those things for tolerance. Oh, and if you break them down... measure the primer Dia. against the pocket... Im leaning towards the primers...
1000% overpressure whatever the reason, Try to change powder, same thing happened to me with 500 S&W. I switched to titegroup with lesser charge. You still get the punch without all the blast. Check how hard your crimp is, that could cause overpressure, seating depth. One thing is for sure Gavin, don't shoot anymore of those loads you are getting close to an explosion
I got the same surprise with 2.5" S/W629 but worst in super 14 T/C with 200 gr Gold Dot. I was using sealed 8 lb jugs. Accurate but in Super 14 you could tell higher rate of recoil. Stored in air-condition room with alot of other new materials. First time and I suspect primers. Change to federal primers and same power. Tried other primer but from the other end of a 5000 case all fine.
Only had 3 boxes of 100 that gave the scary over pressure. Chrono readings were 214 fps faster than normal. Rest of case no problem and first time this has happened since 1979. Loaded several hundred of thousands of rounds. Could be worst and no pressure problem if shot in below 26 degrees. Or if it's so cold the bullets stick to your tongue...lol.
Primers - Winchesters are notoriously under sized and perhaps on the soft side. A soft primer will differently flatten more. I use the same primers, but shy away from them in my 300 grain 44Mag loads. 24 grains of H110 under a 240 is a 'suggested starting load' LOL
On the Hodgdon website they list a starting load of 23.0 grains and a max load of 24.0 for the 240 grain Bullet
@@bendennis8773 I'm an old fart, close to 70. I have older manuals that were developed prior to modern pressure measurement methods. Are those loads dangerous? Not really. But there isn't any reason to go there and it's not advisable.
How was the case extraction did the brass seem sticky?
I switched from "H110" to "Lit'l gun" powder for my magnum pistol loads two decades ago for my 50AE and 440 COR-BON because it seemed more stable to me at the time. And the powder charge VS velocity/pressure is identical.
"And the powder charge VS velocity/pressure is identical."
Are you trying to claim that H110 charges and LilGun charges are the same for a given cartridge and projectile? Because that is not in any way true. They might be close because they are close in burn rate, but they aren't the same.
@@cawpin I didn't say they were the same, I said they were identical. And that's my personal experience; didn't base it off of heresy.
@@Oldhogleg You may be getting similar velocities, but they are not identical and neither are the pressures. The powders are very close to each other so you may not see velocity variations out of pistol length barrels. But suggesting that you can use identical charges for two different powders is dangerous and irresponsible advise to people who may read this.
@@cawpin It wasn't me that advised the substitution, it was a published publication I read two decades ago. Plus I chronograph all my handloads anyway. And always look for signs of over pressure regardless. Why are you being neurotic?
Nice video buddy. I primarily reload 500 S&W so I've dealt with magnum reloading inconsistencies. I've found through testing a combination of CCI primers and Hodgdon Lil'Gun provide EXCELLENT magnum cartridge results. I use CCI large rifle magnum primers. Make use your pockets are clean and sized using common tools. Seating depth is CRITICAL. Some of the primer seating tools don't seat properly into magnum cartridges. Try a few different seating tools and measure the seating depth. I've found Lyman e-zee works best with a small piece of electrical tape on the surface of the rod. Otherwise you risk light primer strikes. Been there before. The Lil'Gun powder works great for magnum cartridges at many loads. I reload at 100%, 90%, 85%, and 80%. Lower than 80% causes accuracy issues. Some of my family prefers to shoot the light loads because the 500 is a bit much for some people. Anyway... Ping me back if you want to discuss more. I'm subscribed with notifications and all that too. Thanks for all the videos.
Man. 38SP-357Magnum-45ACP- 44Magnum. Now that's a step up :-)
You gotta love shooting in the loading room !
Back in the day Elmer Kieth would only use max loads with new brass. Also today with the rush to crank out brass fast they may have slipped up on the heat treatment of the brass. Hope you know who Kieth was, if not read him, especially if you load to max.
Tumbling brass in media can can contaminate powder and or brass especially if you add something to the media. In the case of brass contamination you can get "bullet weld". I don't tumble brass any more,
I just had boiling water, little dish soap, the brass in a closed container and shake it up for a couple of minutes and then rise well and oven dry. Since the powder has a slightly different color, this would indicate some kind of contamination possibly. I have experienced premature primer pocket expansion loading 224 Valkyrie using Starline brass. Let us know if you solve the issue.
Gavin I have seen this what I realized is the primer pocket was shot it was blew out. I noticed it on rifle brass that I was reloading to failure with soft loads. Basically what I seen was the brass was fine in every way except for the primer pocket. When seating the primer they were kinda lose compared to the others in the group. What ended up happening is as I pulled the blackened primer cases the rest in the group would fail in the next firing
Gavin, Is it always the same chamber in the cylinder?
I noticed it was two cases in our of six , so it could well be two of the cylinders are not the exact same diameter as the other four cylinders .
But he also has the same problem in multiple guns....
Never have had overpressure with max charge of 296/ H110. The reason 24 gr. is max is because that is a full charge (case filled) and ball powder like H110 cannot be compressed, just doesnt work. Overpressure occurs in this order. 1) flattening of primers. 2) sticky extractions. 3) split cases.
The blackening is gases escaping around the primer due to too loose primer/pocket tension, if i could give my best guess. Ive never seen max charges of h110 show overpressure signs. Only downloaded ones (below 90% max) can cause issues.
Crimp is not the issue, h110 needs firm roll crimp. Is it possible you do not have enough crimp, and as you progress through your cylinder you are getting slugs "jumping crimp" that could be causing an issue.
Good day.
I have experience where a freshly opened bottle of H-110 has given me up to 50fps higher velocity than an older container with a 265gr cast bullet. That seems to require a lot more pressure to give this result. Improper storage? Quite possible, my reloading room is in a basement, so I just chalked it up to that.
I would check the bullet itself with a mic. The typical jacketed .44 mag bullet is .429" with a few measuring .4295". The standard XTP .44 cal bullet is supposed to be .430". I have run into a few lots over the years that had some that mic'ed very close to .431". I can see where this could cause a spike in pressure, especially if you're loaded near top end already.
Not being rude. I love your videos and all that you teach.
I would go back to reloading 101. Load work up for each gun. And start low and go slow.
1. I would say crimp.
2. Primer pocket issues
3. Cylinder cone interface.
4. Seating depth.
I have to agree
i use 34gr h110 for .50AE. i switched from cci magnum large pistol to just regular cci large pistol No. 300 and that seems to be keeping the case expansion down. those magnum primers, i feel, should be used under 90%case fill, they are hot. i have never seen gas creep out of the primer pocket and i basically load proofing rounds for .50.
Have you been shooting any 44 specials out of your revolvers? This may cause an increase in pressure in the chambers of the cylinder.
It might not be be the right answer, but I think switching to lilgun powder with cci or federal mag pistol primers primers might fix your problem. I like lilgun much better than H110 across the board.... but that’s just an opinion.
Winchester primers are usually a smaller diameter than other brands. I’ve seen the blackening with large rifle Winchester primers
OK, now I need to measure the diameter of the primers- good think I have a micrometer that measures accurate to 0.0001" :)
2 things I have seen black primer pockets and it turns out bad brass also try a different brand of primers to see if it does it if not then the primers you have are magnum primer labeled wrong that’s had happened
Seen it but mine was over charging of the powder. I took the advice of a friend and it turned out to be wrong. Thankfully it was only 10 rounds for testing and did no damage to the gun.
Cold be the bullet, look the diameter, you can look If the bullet has any corrosion ( maybe a corrosion welding between case/bullet), take measures of everything ( the hole between case/primer, seating depth and crimp depth), if was the powder, all loads Will have the Black ring, you can calculate the volume of the defective brass and compare with a good brass.
Sorry for the bad english
Hello from Brazil!!!
My favorite handloading for 44 mag has always been the 180 grain hollow point with 28 and a half grains of h110, however I have loaded that at 29, 30 grains which is Max load. However I got such great consistency and accuracy out of my very first load which was it 28 and a half I generally stuck with that.
How many times has that brass been Reloaded. Check the timer flash hole on a new cartridge against the flash hole diameter on the cartridges that seem to be failing. Even a few thought of an inch increase in the size of the primer flash hole can lead you more to detonation of the powder charge than to ignition of the powder charge. Also check the primer flash hold from lot-to-lot of your cartridges. Back in the early 90s Winchester had inadvertently started weed dressing their primer flash hole punch. Unbeknownst to them, the primer punch had a cone-shaped to it and they had gotten from about a .072 flash whole almost to a point where it was .092. We found that out this locally when a police officer who is carrying a Browning hi-power, blew his gun up. And that is a rather substantial piece of work to do to blow up a Browning hi-power. My gunsmith started doing research and found part of this issue that some of the ammo that Winchester was making for the military was also making its way into General use because they were manufacturing these particular lots of ammo. Preface this this was the same time frame when the Berettas that they had recently purchased we're blowing up in people's hands in injuring people with the slide coming apart and hitting people in their face. Turns out that they were getting chamber pressure somewhere in the vicinity of 42000 copper units of pressure. They had clearly gotten to a point where they were detonating the cartridge instead of igniting the powder charge.
That's the primary issue that comes to mind I think you may have reloaded these shells enough that it has expanded the base enough where the primer flash hole itself may have increased in size, something to keep an eye on. I'd also like to know that Starline brass is usually very good brass, a little bit on the thin side and in its original form is a bit on the soft side as well those are all good things in General, but the fact that it is thinner at the base is not great for 44 mag use when you are reloading a number of times.
One other thing I just thought of, I almost always Harry for 44 mag Ruger Super Blackhawk. That has a much longer jump between the cartridge and the forcing cone and lands than a double action revolver of any type. That may also add to your chamber pressures because it doesn't have the long bullet jump. If you look at a fire projectile from a single action revolver and looked at how the bullets kids on the lands before it engages them in relation to a double action revolver where the bullet isn't going nearly as fast. Remember, that bullet in a single action revolver is leaving the cylinder at close to 1,200 feet per second. I've seen test done on a firearm the headaches Barrel removed and with the Winchester 240 grain Factory load it produced a velocity of 1150 feet per second. If you walk that back to the size of a double action revolver, you're not getting the speed of the blood up so much but your pressures are considerably higher and they're still Rising at a much higher rate in that double action cylinder when the bullet has to be forced into the lands than in a single action gun. That could be a couple of thousand if not several thousand pounds more pressure in your chamber pressure and a double action revolver than in a single action.
Hi my guess would be to eliminate the hand gun itself - mark each chamber 1,2,3 etc and see if the problem your having is coming from one particular chamber - ps love your videos :-)
he said he tested them in a few hand guns and it did it with them all
I don't recall H110 being position sensitive, but maybe? I would focus on the cases primarily; especially hardness, capacity, and maybe even rim thickness. I have had this happen when I loaded my typical M1 Garand load for commercial cases into some surplus cases that I may have over-annealed slightly. Blown and black ringed primers in 6/8 cases.
1) Oversize primer recess on the cartridge or undersize Winchester primers, or a combination of both...?
2) Also, check the headspace between the cylinder and forcing cone, make sure there is no excessive run out + run some factory ammunition for comparison
3) Check each of the cartridge cylinders for any signs of crud or leading
I think #1 of your suggestions is worth looking at! Ruled out 2,3 due to same symptoms in three S&W revolvers...
I've had the same problem with 180 grain 44 mag. I believe it to be a heavy crimp
Years ago I had same problem however that went away when I backed down my loads until !9.5 grains and it stopped. I was told to hot load for long barreled pistols!
The spurts from what I read say the Federal pistol mag primer is best. 23.5 gr of H110 is much easier on the brass than 24 gr of H110. I have found all ball powders to give strange pressures readings on primers. Ball powders work best at near max loadings but back off about a 1/2 grain from max on pistols and 1 to 2 grains on rifles. H414/WW760 gave me wierd behavior in a 6mm Ackley many years ago.
If I remember correctly Smith's always have tight forcing cones check the bullet dia. To the cone size
Assuming u haven't switched dies I'd suspect lot to lot inconsistency with components. Check the cases, bullets powder, primers ect. that has happened to me especially if the lots are bought a year or more apart they are varied more with certain lots occasionally. It can be exaggerated depending on certain weather conditions, of cource, making the problem exponentially worse.
Where did you store the boxes?
Did you work up the load by starting 10% below listed maximum and then increase by 1 or 2 tenths of a grain, watching for pressure signs? Or did you jump right to the maximum load listed? Did you use exactly the same components listed in the loading manual? Sometimes Starline brass can be a little heavier than other brands and this can raise pressure signs a little sooner while working up. My suggestion is to use data listed in the loading manual of the bullet manufacturer and always work up. If you change to a different lot of powder, always work up. And when you get within 5% of a listed maximum load, it is absolutely imperative that you start weighing each individual powder charge.
I love Winchester primers, but in this case try a different brand.
I switched to Federal, they work well in a smithed SW revolver.
I see it was solved but before i watch that im going to add my suspect. The internal volume of the casr may be smaller sending pressures up. Measured some magtech fired cases and they where 3cc lower than estimated spec in GRT.
Did you weigh only one powder charge? Is this the only box left of this batch (besides the close one you tried)? Would an out of spec bullet spike pressure? From this side of the screen, the flattening does not look extreme. Given that you got flow around the primer, it seems that there's some kind of mismatch between the primer and the pocket, but that doesn't explain the bulge that you're seeing, unless the problem is with soft brass, which could also explain a "stretched" pocket. Have you tried depriming any fired cases to see how loose they are?
I had a ruger super black hawk.44 magnum. And was reloading ammo for it. And had two of the reloads after being shot stick in the cylinder and had to pound them out with a rod. Well half of the shells remained in the cylinder and they were a bear to get out.
I guess I didn’t know what I was doing so I never reloaded for that gun again.
different brass has different case volume. starline is tuff brass that also means lower case volume.
I have noticed differences in the feel when seating primers in my 44 mag, star line brass, cci primers were nice and tight then I used federal and they seemed a looser fit put this together with that h110 max powder charge you could have back pressure leakage around the primer pocket. Just a thought?
I have never had that type of result from any load. I obviously looks like gas is leaking past/around the primer. I would take careful measurements of everything that can be measured from a fired case, and compare with a new case. Including primer dimensions, primer pocket, weights, etc. Is it possible to send a sample of loaded powder to Hodgdon for chemical analysis? It obviously has to be either a mechanical or chemical issue. Good Luck!
Wow. That is interesting. I wonder if those particular cases were just a little longer and received a stronger crimp. It almost seems as if the primer pocket is deeper and caused the initial explosion around the primer. You are talking a big bullet. You might never know...
JIC: Check the crimp, bearing surface on that particular bullet. Too heavy a crimp will sometimes do the same thing.
Check your bullets to see if they are labeled right.
329PD I own one as well! That’s a fun gun, excellent in the bush. And fun fo plink with 44 spl:)
If you crimp bullet little harder may build case pressure
Gavin the max loads that most Publications put in their books is not written in stone. You can find max pressure levels well before the book Max. Also something to think about is you are shooting in a much more dryer climate that may have modified the burn rate in which the powder is burning Now versus the more humid are you were shooting in when you lived closer to the beach I'm guessing. I know here in Florida where I'm close to the Gulf of Mexico my powder Burns a little slower than when I'm in the mountains or if I'm out in the desert. Something to think about you might be reaching Max Pressure before your max load data in the book due to dryer air conditions in which your powder is burning in now. Hope it helps bro.
Seating depth ? Primer pockets ? That's all I've got I think you covered everything else. Case capacity is an issue with rifle could it be possible with handgun?
too much crimp as well, I've run into that with autos.
@@remiel3315 yes I forgot to much crimp can cause pressure
Could it be lose primer pockets?
Over pressure signs are always cause for concern. The revolver might have a slightly tighter chamber compared to the one you originally worked up the load for.
The one big pressure spike I'd seen is when changing from shooting lead,then say copper jacket or vice versa
Did you reload a couple of the original cases, i.e., breakdown the load, reload it, shoot. I believe the folks that mentioned 'welding' of the bullet over time might have point. My first thought was headspace, but same issue in 3 guns, nah. Then I got on the small primer/ large primer pocket bandwagon. Still on that one, also.
Good luck. Look forward to the solution.
Good ideas!
Wild speculation, but a 9 mm case will fit and could be jammed down inside a .44 Magnum case, i.e. if mixed cases are tumbled clean together, and some tumbling media is wedged in between them... very unlikely this could have happened multiple times though, without being noticed, but that would surely eat up a lot of case volume, and cause over-pressure.
Each time you switch to a new batch of powder you should back of a little. Every lot is a little different. Anytime you change one component you should back off and work up.
Do to Winchester primers being on the small size and if you reloaded the brass a few time, with ball power like h100 it can work its way into the primer pocket itself and when the gun is discharge not only are you igniting the primer but a few grains of power in turn causing over pressure