Something to add is that a good Deus Ex Machina can actually enhance a story. In the aforementioned Greek plays, the gods would only come down and save those who worshiped them. If you have a character have faith in a concept throughout, and the story is about testing that faith, ending the story with a kind of miraculous reward can feel satisfying and cathartic. And on the other end, the example you gave if H.G. Wells’s war if the worlds is an ending meant to highlight the helplessness of the characters. Humanity WOULD have died if it hadn’t been for dumb luck. And that sense of skewed scale is meant to make the audience realize how powerless they really are, and that sometimes true power comes from mysterious places. And I could talk about the brilliant, multi-layered take on the trope in Lord of the Flies for hours. The point is, a deus ex machina can be a really powerful tool for your story if you connect it to theme. Because while the point is that it always comes out of nowhere in the plot, if it’s built up emotionally, you can buy it easily.
With regards to the HG Wells' war of the worlds argument. I also don't find that ending particularly egregious because it rewards an attentive audience, as the ending is foreshadowed a little. The Martians are depicted as draining the blood and consuming human material; they are a foreign species arriving on earth and taking with little care for consequence. And in doing so, they effectively doom themselves to that death by bacteria. It seems to me a misconception to say that the end of the War of the Worlds is one that happens completely out of nowhere, because the context for the ending exists. Martians also leave their tripods without any protective equipment described, in numerous adaptations. I do agree though; that the ultimate goal of the ending is to highlight that humanity couldn't have beaten the Martians with just human ingenuity, or fighting back, or building a whole new world for themselves underground. The Martians were superior in every way, and it is a Martian arrogance that leads to their defeat.
Wario64I Deadliest? He obviously pales in comparison to other Doctor Who villains like... The insect people from planet of the dead The bitchy trampoline Cassondra The killer plants from terror of the Autons Whatever was the villain in the doctor at the widow the wardrobe (I have not seen it) and the Rani specially that one time that she took over Albert Square
7:12 to be completely fair, this was the finale after "The Shakespeare Code" whey they established that "words have power". Direct quote: "Well, it's just a different sort of science. You lot, you chose mathematics. Given the right string of numbers, the right equation, you can split the atom. Carrionites use words instead." Not saying it at all justifies what they did here, but I always rationalized it as "Carrionite word magic + worldwide psychic network = Super Saiyan." Let me know what you think of this!
I thought the same. I also thought it to do with the fact that in the RTD era, it's mentioned a few times that humans have dormant psychic powers (with a few of then who can access such abilities like those in Pompeii or Timothy latimer ) I always assumed that the doctor used the combination of the archangel network and the fact that the human race were focusing their thoughts on him to draw upon their dormant psychic abilities in order to rejuvenate himself. (I know its grasping at straws, but that's how I justified it. Would of been nice to have just a simple line or two to explain it lol)
Also I kinda dont count that one as a complete deus ex machina because the doctor ultimately does suffer consequences. The master dies, his companion leaves him due to bith her family and her own trauma (also due to the way he had been treating her) Leaving him alone once more.... Ultimately the master does win in a way
The Wedding of River Song bothers me so much, because the twist is literally just “oh, remember the scene where the Tesalecta asked the Doctor if he needed anything else and the Doctor walked away? Well he ACTUALLY said yes. Remember how for the past nine episodes Amy was hoping that it was a duplicate or a clone and the audience was assured multiple times that wouldn’t be the twist and that this really was the Doctor’s death? Well THAT was a lie.” I actually didn’t mind The Last of the Time Lords twist though. Like Martha going around the world spreading hope was set up, the paradox machine was set up. It wasn’t that the Doctor “undid” everything it’s that the whole premise of the Master’s plan depended on a paradox. That was setup. The ending was still cheesy (uses the power of love), but it WAS all set up and makes sense in the lore.
I’d like to point out that the novels makes specific mention that Eight is different because after regenerations of playing it safe with the laws of time he rips space and time apart reverses time and screws around with reality as a birth party as it were. This type of behaviour later comes back to bite him in the ass when Faction Paradox shows up
Is it just me or do a lot of Master stories have weak resolutions? There's obviously Last of the Timelords but in Terror of the Autons- the Doctor just points out that the autons probably won't share the earth with the Master who for some reason hasn't already thought of that. In the Daemons Jo being willing to sacrifice herself for the Doctor somehow defeats Azal, Deadly Assassin- the Doctor and Master have punch up.
Considering they both operate on the same level of high-concept magic-science, i'm glad they found each other. For ages I tried to fault the bizarro quick resolution of The End of Time...but I couldn't. Within the confines of the stories' logic, it all works fine. ONLY BECAUSE it's both of them at their most 'moriarty' wizard.
@@TheSpectacularSpiderPunk Frontier in Space doesn't really have a resolution as its a set up that leads to Planet of the Daleks. And even in this one the last thing the Master does is run away after shooting the Doctor. However Jo standing up to the Master is great though and really shows how far she's come. S10 is great.
I just watched the TV movie! For the third time this week. (The second time was the commentary.) Because I was bored. It's a guilty pleasure of mine. The TARDIS Handbook speculates that either the Doctor or the TARDIS turned back time. Funny how the golden energy at the end looks similar to the new series regeneration effect, though.
@@NitroIndigo I'm pretty sure Nathan is suggesting that, when they were coming up with a design for 'regeneration energy' they looked at previous Who and borrowed the look used in the TV movie...
Excellent summaries here. I always had an ok soft spot for sleep no more. It felt like it was jumpy enough to cover up the fact the plot was wafer thin. I may have to watch it again as my thoughts was that it was alright; but you absolutely loathe it lol
I like deus ex machina so long as it's either so cool that it's easy to overlook OR it comes with a serious cost like the primary character losing something(s) of great importance to them.
Hey, some of us were calling Evolution of the Daleks out on its bullshit twelve years ago! It’s just that there were so many problems with that story that it got lost in the discourse ;)
Oh - on The Power of Three, legend has it that the ending was heavily rewritten and re-edited after Steven berkoff was so difficult to work with that the footage they did capture was largely unusable.
I will say, the timelord dna thing in evolution of the daleks does make sense in regards to the sci-fi rules that have already been established in said episode, since they’d already established that the lightning strike was gonna carry the dna of the dalekcanium attached to the mast
The Power of Three is *so* disappointing because the initial half is *so* good. I think Chibnall was the first to confront the Doctor with his greatest foe: Boredom. xD The idea of an alien invasion that's just too slow-moving to hold the Doctor's famously-short attention is a genius idea. I just wish he'd taken the time to build a good story out of that clever idea. So far in Season 12 he seems to be a lot better at actually *executing* his ideas well, so cross-fingers for the finale...
@@nathanbreen5535 LoL, yeah, that comment didn't age well, did it? IMO, The Timeless Children could've gone either way. It's a big ask to expect the audience to buy into such a big reveal but if the execution had been brilliant I think they would've pulled it off. As is I think it's an interesting reveal that they can do intersting things with but the clunkiness of how they delivered it leaves me questioning whether they have the skill to actually deliver those interesting things in an interesting way. I really hope Chibnall takes the right lessons away from this. The improvement between Season 11 and 12 leaves me confident that he *can* step up his game. If the entire season had been to the calibre of Spyfall, Fugitive of the Judoon and The Haunting of Villa Diodati we'd probably all be singing its praises right now. Chibnall *can* bring us strong episodes. He just needs to do it consistently. IMO if he could just get better at integrating his exposition into the narrative it would solve more than half the problems.
@@dubliam8064 That explains a lot. Do you know how it was originally intended to end? Personally I think I would've swapped out actors. It seems like the lesser evil. You could even make him a shapeshifter and split it between a few actors.
I mean, they do set up the fact that the paradox machine was allowing the Toclafane to invade so it makes sense that destroying it would send them away and undo everything that had happened.
I have four little rules when writing Deus Ex Machinas in order to make them feel a bit more satisfying. I call this the ECCC system. 1: Establishment. How well is the DEM established? What can it do, how does it do it? etc. 2: Connection. What connection does it have to the characters and/or situation? How will it effect the story? 3: Conflict. How do your character's view the DEM. Are they for it? Against it? What will it cost to use it? 4: Consequences. If used or not used, what consequences do your DEM present? The day is saved, but at what cost? These can help make the DEM feel a bit less cheap in the overall story.
How I always thought about the TARDIS brings Grace and Lee back to life in the TV Movie was that they both died in the Cloister room, while the eye of harmony was open. No other companions have done that. Just the right circumstances to resurrect someone. That what I though anyway.
With Chang and Grace being resurrected by the TARDIS and not Adric, I suppose you could argue it’s because they were inside the TARDIS when they died, but that doesn’t completely explain how.
If you compare Last of the Time Lords to other RTD era finales, you actually wont find one that is less of a Deus Ex Machina. Everything leading up to the Masters defeat was planned carefully throughout the episode and the one before, unlike for example Roses last minute decision to absorb the Time Vortex,. It wasn't just randomly pressing some buttons that defeat the enemy as in Parting of the Ways or a very standard solution of just sucking Cybermen away in the void that can't help but automatically being a complete downfall to how the Cyberman were defeated before in the second season. Instead of Donna and Rose, Marthas action to save everyone wasn't one single decision or just pure luck, but year long hard work without any magical or sciencefictiony help. The Doctors quote "As if I would ask her to kill" and especially the last scene between the two at the field of the rocketships (which was resolved without anything you could call a Deus Ex Machina) add an emotional aspect between the two enemies as a key factor in the Masters defeat, something the defeat of the Dalek Emperor, the Cult of Skaro, Davros and Rassilon did not have to that extend. Also, instead of the Doctor or his companion just saving the day it's teh work of the entire planet combined. It's one of my favourite scenes in all of "Doctor Who".
I think the only reason the deus ex machina is somewhat justified is that even now Earth in the Doctor Who universe would be recovering from when the Master reduced loads of it to holes in the ground.
How to fix (some of) these things: TV Movie - Have the Eighth Doctor use his regeneration energy to directly revive them, like how River revived The Doctor in Lets Kill Hitler Last Of The TIme Lords - The Doctor is transported to the Paradox machine and uses that to reverse his aging/the Earth. The Paradox machine regenerates itself back into the TARDIS. Everybody still remembers The Year That Never Was, however.
Great! Except that River sacrificed every one of her remaining, undetermined number of regenerations to revive the Doctor. Regeneration energy isn't as powerful as one might think - it takes a tremendous amount of it to reverse death. In the case of the Paradox Machine, both of those points don't make sense. The Doctor enters the Machine, fine - but how does he use it to reverse his aging, or the Earth? It has been frequently discussed that the Doctor can't travel down his own timeline because it's incredibly dangerous and liable to create enormous paradoxes.
Loved it. Definitely do the classic series. I’d say the witchfinders was the worst deus ex machina but I am yet to watch it properly as it was so boring that I fell asleep. If you ask me then the worst is terror firma. Literally nothing happens for two hours and the day is saved by an old lady being a bad ass and the doctor letting davros die in pain. But at least he stopped the daleks once and for all. Oh wait no he makes them promise to never return to earth. Because that’s stopped them before.
Power of three episode...?? I seriously don't remember that one and I've watched any pond dunno g around so much... which I meant to say the Matt Smith era on repeat ofc
Oh my God - another person who didn't understand the conclusion to "Lie of the Land"? Bill didn't save the day with love - she defeated the Monks fake news with the "Truth"... the clue is kind of in the episode title - and in the Doctor's line "she's a window on the world without the Monks." ...and The Doctor thought "Appalling Hair" was the one who wasn't paying attention to what had just happened?!
@@karkatvantas9557 Well at least there's two of us! What frustrates me the most is not that people misunderstand the ending but that they use that misunderstanding to hate on the episode! As I said elsewhere recently I think RTD's "Years & Years" used a very similar resolution to a similar scenario.... broadcasting the truth directly to the people is the way to defeat anyone who is controlling the media with fake news!
@@SamyulDavis Maybe not - but you've used a video which "isn't about that" to help perpetuate a misunderstanding about a story which is fundamentally about dispelling misinformation! That's like irony on top of irony!!!
Last of the Time Lords actually set up its ending earlier in the season. "The Shakespeare Code" basically exists to establish a precedent for the power of story-based technology. The problem is that The Shakespeare Code is such a forgettable episode that people don't remember it well enough to put 2 and 2 together on that one... (EDIT: Bother, looks like someone beat me to this one. >_
"But the 'consolation' of fairy-tales has another aspect than the imaginative satisfaction of ancient desires. Far more important is the Consolation of the Happy Ending. Almost I would venture to assert that all complete fairy-stories must have it. At least I would say that Tragedy is the true form of Drama, its highest function; but the opposite is true of Fairy-story. Since we do not appear to possess a word that expresses this opposite - I will call it Eucatastrophe. The eucatastrophic tale is the true form of fairy-tale, and its highest function. "The consolation of fairy-stories, the joy of the happy ending: or more correctly of the good catastrophe, the sudden joyous “turn” (for there is no true end to any fairy-tale): this joy, which is one of the things which fairy-stories can produce supremely well, is not essentially 'escapist', nor 'fugitive'. In its fairy-tale-or otherworld-setting, it is a sudden and miraculous grace: never to be counted on to recur. It does not deny the existence of dyscatastrophe, of sorrow and failure: the possibility of these is necessary to the joy of deliverance; it denies (in the face of much evidence, if you will) universal final defeat and in so far is evangelium, giving a fleeting glimpse of Joy, Joy beyond the walls of the world, poignant as grief. "It is the mark of a good fairy-story, of the higher or more complete kind, that however wild its events, however fantastic or terrible the adventures, it can give to child or man that hears it, when the “turn” comes, a catch of the breath, a beat and lifting of the heart, near to (or indeed accompanied by) tears, as keen as that given by any form of literary art, and having a peculiar quality." -- J.R.R. Tolkien, "On Fairy-stories"
You missed the entire point of the sleep dust monsters from Sleep No More. The entire point of why they are dangerous is because we have been trying to cheat ourselves out of needing to sleep. Without feeling the need to wipe away the sleep dust, the sleep dust gathers and becomes a monster trying to claim its sleep-deprived victims.
Hey Samuel, I would really, really, really appreciate if you could reply to this comment and give me some tips on what you use for your videos. I wanna do UA-cam and I’m stuck on what type of videos I will do, show my face and just ramble OR talk about a subject and then show pictures or clips of whatever movie, TV show etc I’m talking about. So would appreciate if you told me what laptop you use, any equipment you use (microphone and so on) and what editing format you like. Seriously would appreciate the help! (Got anxiety so I wanna do UA-cam to deal with it and sort of fight my anxiety)
Snowball Ice mic is cheap and durable. A great beginner mic that I honestly haven’t/might not grow out of for its ease of use. Corel Videostudio or IMovie are my suggestions or editing programs, eventually moving on to final cut or adobe premiere pro- which I run on my tower computer. I personally don’t edit on a laptop, but I’m sure some can. Nearly all cameras are UA-cam standard now :) Editing-wise? Try be snappy and distinct. Few videos need to be 25 minutes+ without cuts. I personally improvise and then cut half of it along with any pauses or tangents...but a script or bullet point outlines are essential.
Oh and for clips? UA-cam downloaders are A okay, but Corel comes with the easiest screen capture software imaginable. I just record clips and episodes straight from the browser. You’re seeing Netflix footage.
Maybe an unpopular opinion, but I don't really have any issues with Grace and Lee coming back to life. Perhaps partly because I'm just more fond of the TV Movie in general than others? And I do like the whole theme of holding back death the story focuses on, so thematically, I get why the ending happened. But I also don't see it as something the TARDIS can just always do. It feels like something that the TARDIS could only guide into happening through the Eye of Harmony being open that long, generating enough energy or whatever for the resurrecting to be possible, and as it being open clearly could cause a great deal of destruction, it wouldn't really be advisable for the Doctor to just pop it open and leave it to simmer whenever a companion dies. And obviously he didn't expect the TARDIS to perform a rare miracle, so it's not something that could really be counted on even if the risks were negligible.
To be fair to the Power of Three, the rumour is that the actor playing the villain was so badly behaved and uncooperative that they had to change him at the last minute into an emotionless AI, because that was the limit of his acting, and so they were forced to resolve it through deus ex machina.
A deus ex machina is acceptable if it has sufficient set-up, explanation and consequences. Otherwise it's too obvious. But to be fair, all good endings have those things. So really it's not so much about deus ex machinas as having a satisfying ending.
Not sure about my least favourite deus ex machinas, but Moffat loves them. I personally hate how the whole universe was gone in the S5 finale...yet there’s no consequences at all. No destroyed worlds or buildings, no races destroyed and so on. Also really hate how Moffat likes the “Love is the best weapon ever!” And “there’s nothing more dangerous than an angry parent” which we saw when the cybermen were defeated because Craig...heard his baby cry?
Maybe in Last of Timelords they should have saved the Doctor but kept the world messed up and then in S4 they could have the Earth under Master rule vs Davros and the Daleks. Then we probably wouldn't have gotten Donna though... Forget I said anything.
...when he was showrunner. Blink and The Doctor Dances and Forest of the Dead were all pretty non-deus-ish. EDIT: oh and the initial episode with the Silence was actually a really clever resolution to me - 'You should kill us all on sight!' though, I guess it was pretty lucky that Silent said that particular thing. What if it hadn't? *Then* where would we be, eh?
I don’t mind deus ex machina as long as it has real consequences. 1. Rose looking into the tardis and killing all the Daleks instantly is very deus ex machina but there are consequences like the doctor has to take the energy to save her and regenerate and captain jack is now immortal (for better or worse) Similar things happen in all of RTD’s finales with a companion or doctor suffering consequences. It can at times feel very convenient but at least there are negative results. In the Moffat era we see some deus ex machina without consequences. The series 5 finale ends with the universe saved and doctor and companion reunited. It’s a fun positive ending but it makes the whole crack story line feel very pointless. In series 6 (the worst finale) we see the hammy excuse for the eleventh doctor not dying. It’s another deus ex machina with no real consequences. Moffat always has a way of ruining his good endings by giving them a “positive spin.” This leads to an unsatisfactory ending like in hell bent when Clara’s perfect death was ruined (same for bill in the doctor falls). In non finales both show runners had some deus ex machina without consequences, but I find in the RTD era he usually gave some character death to justify it, like Luke in “the poison sky”
Do you seriously think the doctor and chums going to an alternate reality where everything is fine and good would be a "resolution" people would go with?
@@SamyulDavis 🤔 that could be pretty cool actually. Just as mad as what we actually got but definitely a cool idea. I had no problems with the undead master stuff tho tbf
Haven’t been satisfied with New Who endings generally. I’d say you have 98% Ex-Machina endings. For example Dalek finally shoots the Doctor yet the Doctor is not killed (how did Daleks stand a chance in the Time War). Then Stolen Earth is resolved because the Doctor was shot. There are many many more examples.
Hang on a minute, you reference War of the Worlds but don’t reference/know where Forever Autumn is from?! I’ll give you a clue; listen to the original Jeff Wayne (1978) musical version.
I cut out the joke in the edit because it went on a little TOO long. I’m headed to the War of the Worlds Musical Interactive Experience in the next few weeks! Fan of the album since childhood.
The Power of Three; From the only living being in the history of the entire multiverse who thought "You know what Planet of the Spiders really needed? A Trump parody!!"
The reason no one queries the lightning DNA thing in Daleks in Manhattan is simple. It’s just so bad a story no one wants to think about it. Dry sewers. Pigs. Songs. Dalek Sec as a human Dalek. (Shudder)
The human Dalek thing was a great idea, and I really like how they played Dalek Sec's slowly-growing humanity. But yeah, the pig soldiers added nothing and the human Dalek look was terrible. And trust me, *no-one* wants realistic sewers on screen...
This is just too balls deep for Doctor Who. Everyone is going balls deep on Doctor Who. Doctor Who is the show the one show you should NOT being taking seriously. It's sci fi for fun. It's a geeky good time on a saturday night, that will play up to B movie silliness way before it dares to take its self too seriously. Every other sci fi is desperately trying to be super serious and real. Let's leave Doctor Who to be glorious nonsense...SO long of course it's knows what to respect - The lore is part of the fun so it should be respected - WARTS AND ALL!
@@SamyulDavis I don't mean take it seriously, but know the things you don''t change - Daleks, The Phonebox, and don't for example decide The background story to the Timelords is completely different.
I think you missed the worst one so far in Dr. Who's history: the 50th Anniversary special. "Gallifrey was destroyed but ackshually it wasnt because all your favourite Doctors showed up and fixed it and the Daleks just somehow blew themselves up but the Doctor forgot due to wibbly-wobbly timey-wimey stuff and thats why he's sad in Series 1-4. No questions please."
Something to add is that a good Deus Ex Machina can actually enhance a story. In the aforementioned Greek plays, the gods would only come down and save those who worshiped them. If you have a character have faith in a concept throughout, and the story is about testing that faith, ending the story with a kind of miraculous reward can feel satisfying and cathartic. And on the other end, the example you gave if H.G. Wells’s war if the worlds is an ending meant to highlight the helplessness of the characters. Humanity WOULD have died if it hadn’t been for dumb luck. And that sense of skewed scale is meant to make the audience realize how powerless they really are, and that sometimes true power comes from mysterious places. And I could talk about the brilliant, multi-layered take on the trope in Lord of the Flies for hours. The point is, a deus ex machina can be a really powerful tool for your story if you connect it to theme. Because while the point is that it always comes out of nowhere in the plot, if it’s built up emotionally, you can buy it easily.
That's actually a great point.
With regards to the HG Wells' war of the worlds argument. I also don't find that ending particularly egregious because it rewards an attentive audience, as the ending is foreshadowed a little. The Martians are depicted as draining the blood and consuming human material; they are a foreign species arriving on earth and taking with little care for consequence. And in doing so, they effectively doom themselves to that death by bacteria. It seems to me a misconception to say that the end of the War of the Worlds is one that happens completely out of nowhere, because the context for the ending exists. Martians also leave their tripods without any protective equipment described, in numerous adaptations.
I do agree though; that the ultimate goal of the ending is to highlight that humanity couldn't have beaten the Martians with just human ingenuity, or fighting back, or building a whole new world for themselves underground. The Martians were superior in every way, and it is a Martian arrogance that leads to their defeat.
Don’t you dare diss The power three it has the best Doctor Who villain of all time in it...
CUBE MAN
Wrinkly cube man was the precursor to other brilliant foes. Without him we may have never got Tim Shaw.
Don't forget the greatest and most deadliest foe:
Not Donald Trump
Wario64I Deadliest? He obviously pales in comparison to other Doctor Who villains like...
The insect people from planet of the dead
The bitchy trampoline Cassondra
The killer plants from terror of the Autons
Whatever was the villain in the doctor at the widow the wardrobe (I have not seen it)
and the Rani specially that one time that she took over Albert Square
@@TheHaigisawsome
What about that bit of floor in Death to the Daleks?
Very few foes have made the Doctor fear them that much
7:12 to be completely fair, this was the finale after "The Shakespeare Code" whey they established that "words have power". Direct quote: "Well, it's just a different sort of science. You lot, you chose mathematics. Given the right string of numbers, the right equation, you can split the atom. Carrionites use words instead." Not saying it at all justifies what they did here, but I always rationalized it as "Carrionite word magic + worldwide psychic network = Super Saiyan." Let me know what you think of this!
I’ve never made that link! I can’t believe it’s intentional, but I still like it a lot. Will think of it when I rewatch from now on :)
I thought the same. I also thought it to do with the fact that in the RTD era, it's mentioned a few times that humans have dormant psychic powers (with a few of then who can access such abilities like those in Pompeii or Timothy latimer ) I always assumed that the doctor used the combination of the archangel network and the fact that the human race were focusing their thoughts on him to draw upon their dormant psychic abilities in order to rejuvenate himself. (I know its grasping at straws, but that's how I justified it. Would of been nice to have just a simple line or two to explain it lol)
Also I kinda dont count that one as a complete deus ex machina because the doctor ultimately does suffer consequences. The master dies, his companion leaves him due to bith her family and her own trauma (also due to the way he had been treating her) Leaving him alone once more.... Ultimately the master does win in a way
The Wedding of River Song bothers me so much, because the twist is literally just “oh, remember the scene where the Tesalecta asked the Doctor if he needed anything else and the Doctor walked away? Well he ACTUALLY said yes. Remember how for the past nine episodes Amy was hoping that it was a duplicate or a clone and the audience was assured multiple times that wouldn’t be the twist and that this really was the Doctor’s death? Well THAT was a lie.”
I actually didn’t mind The Last of the Time Lords twist though. Like Martha going around the world spreading hope was set up, the paradox machine was set up. It wasn’t that the Doctor “undid” everything it’s that the whole premise of the Master’s plan depended on a paradox. That was setup. The ending was still cheesy (uses the power of love), but it WAS all set up and makes sense in the lore.
Forever autumn is actually a song by the moody blues which is actually in Jeff Wayne's, War of the worlds
I like Last of the Time Lords but yeah the resolution I can't defend, I hate it.
The Doctor: "We have to be careful turning off this paradox machine"
Jack in the next episode: Just shoots guns at it and everything's gucci
I like The Last of the Time Lords and think the resolution is the best part of it.
The Power of Three... they leave several unconscious people lying on the spaceship to die as they escape and it's never acknowledged
THE TALLY
Even the title is the most Who thing possible
I’d like to point out that the novels makes specific mention that Eight is different because after regenerations of playing it safe with the laws of time he rips space and time apart reverses time and screws around with reality as a birth party as it were. This type of behaviour later comes back to bite him in the ass when Faction Paradox shows up
I just adore your voice and intonation. As well as your assessments. Brilliant.
Is it just me or do a lot of Master stories have weak resolutions? There's obviously Last of the Timelords but in Terror of the Autons- the Doctor just points out that the autons probably won't share the earth with the Master who for some reason hasn't already thought of that. In the Daemons Jo being willing to sacrifice herself for the Doctor somehow defeats Azal, Deadly Assassin- the Doctor and Master have punch up.
Frontier in Space is an excellent exception. The Master is defeated by Jo, twice, with a perfect piece of character development.
Considering they both operate on the same level of high-concept magic-science, i'm glad they found each other. For ages I tried to fault the bizarro quick resolution of The End of Time...but I couldn't. Within the confines of the stories' logic, it all works fine. ONLY BECAUSE it's both of them at their most 'moriarty' wizard.
@@TheSpectacularSpiderPunk Frontier in Space doesn't really have a resolution as its a set up that leads to Planet of the Daleks. And even in this one the last thing the Master does is run away after shooting the Doctor. However Jo standing up to the Master is great though and really shows how far she's come. S10 is great.
@@Ben-vf5gk planet of the daleks. series 10 is great
I just watched the TV movie! For the third time this week. (The second time was the commentary.) Because I was bored. It's a guilty pleasure of mine.
The TARDIS Handbook speculates that either the Doctor or the TARDIS turned back time. Funny how the golden energy at the end looks similar to the new series regeneration effect, though.
They didn't predict it at all. The producers of the Revived Series just looked at what came before.
I was referring to the gold dust that revived Grace and Chang. Sorry if I wasn't clear enough.
@@NitroIndigo I'm pretty sure Nathan is suggesting that, when they were coming up with a design for 'regeneration energy' they looked at previous Who and borrowed the look used in the TV movie...
4:40 It looks like the Doctor is pushing the book away
Excellent summaries here. I always had an ok soft spot for sleep no more. It felt like it was jumpy enough to cover up the fact the plot was wafer thin. I may have to watch it again as my thoughts was that it was alright; but you absolutely loathe it lol
Forever Autumn’s ending sounds like something the Seventh Doctor would do.
I like deus ex machina so long as it's either so cool that it's easy to overlook OR it comes with a serious cost like the primary character losing something(s) of great importance to them.
Hey, some of us were calling Evolution of the Daleks out on its bullshit twelve years ago! It’s just that there were so many problems with that story that it got lost in the discourse ;)
Oh - on The Power of Three, legend has it that the ending was heavily rewritten and re-edited after Steven berkoff was so difficult to work with that the footage they did capture was largely unusable.
PDT the Geeky If true, that is hilarious.
I demand a Target novel adaptation immediately.
I will say, the timelord dna thing in evolution of the daleks does make sense in regards to the sci-fi rules that have already been established in said episode, since they’d already established that the lightning strike was gonna carry the dna of the dalekcanium attached to the mast
The Power of Three is *so* disappointing because the initial half is *so* good. I think Chibnall was the first to confront the Doctor with his greatest foe: Boredom. xD The idea of an alien invasion that's just too slow-moving to hold the Doctor's famously-short attention is a genius idea. I just wish he'd taken the time to build a good story out of that clever idea.
So far in Season 12 he seems to be a lot better at actually *executing* his ideas well, so cross-fingers for the finale...
There were production problems with the actor who was playing the villain so they had to change it last minute
Sorry, I'm so sorry
@@nathanbreen5535 LoL, yeah, that comment didn't age well, did it?
IMO, The Timeless Children could've gone either way. It's a big ask to expect the audience to buy into such a big reveal but if the execution had been brilliant I think they would've pulled it off. As is I think it's an interesting reveal that they can do intersting things with but the clunkiness of how they delivered it leaves me questioning whether they have the skill to actually deliver those interesting things in an interesting way.
I really hope Chibnall takes the right lessons away from this. The improvement between Season 11 and 12 leaves me confident that he *can* step up his game. If the entire season had been to the calibre of Spyfall, Fugitive of the Judoon and The Haunting of Villa Diodati we'd probably all be singing its praises right now. Chibnall *can* bring us strong episodes. He just needs to do it consistently. IMO if he could just get better at integrating his exposition into the narrative it would solve more than half the problems.
@@dubliam8064 That explains a lot. Do you know how it was originally intended to end? Personally I think I would've swapped out actors. It seems like the lesser evil. You could even make him a shapeshifter and split it between a few actors.
Forever Autumn is part of the war of the worlds. I can't remember if it's in the original book but it is one of the songs in the musical adaptation.
Try and see if you can find the other Wells reference snuck in there.
I mean, they do set up the fact that the paradox machine was allowing the Toclafane to invade so it makes sense that destroying it would send them away and undo everything that had happened.
I have four little rules when writing Deus Ex Machinas in order to make them feel a bit more satisfying. I call this the ECCC system.
1: Establishment. How well is the DEM established? What can it do, how does it do it? etc.
2: Connection. What connection does it have to the characters and/or situation? How will it effect the story?
3: Conflict. How do your character's view the DEM. Are they for it? Against it? What will it cost to use it?
4: Consequences. If used or not used, what consequences do your DEM present? The day is saved, but at what cost?
These can help make the DEM feel a bit less cheap in the overall story.
How I always thought about the TARDIS brings Grace and Lee back to life in the TV Movie was that they both died in the Cloister room, while the eye of harmony was open. No other companions have done that. Just the right circumstances to resurrect someone. That what I though anyway.
Great video 👍! If u have seen any of the show starring peter capaldi called “the thick of it” i would love if u made a top 5 best + worst episodes!
The thick of it is like one long stream of satire. I love it, but don’t have nearly enough to bring to the table on specific episodes.
OK
With Chang and Grace being resurrected by the TARDIS and not Adric, I suppose you could argue it’s because they were inside the TARDIS when they died, but that doesn’t completely explain how.
Sleep No More just didn’t make any sense at all.
Great to see you in my sub box, chief!
With the Power of Three, it's worth noting that the end of the story had to be changed as the guest star basically refused to act....
No Sammy please don't criticize Paul I beg of you please!
If you compare Last of the Time Lords to other RTD era finales, you actually wont find one that is less of a Deus Ex Machina. Everything leading up to the Masters defeat was planned carefully throughout the episode and the one before, unlike for example Roses last minute decision to absorb the Time Vortex,. It wasn't just randomly pressing some buttons that defeat the enemy as in Parting of the Ways or a very standard solution of just sucking Cybermen away in the void that can't help but automatically being a complete downfall to how the Cyberman were defeated before in the second season. Instead of Donna and Rose, Marthas action to save everyone wasn't one single decision or just pure luck, but year long hard work without any magical or sciencefictiony help. The Doctors quote "As if I would ask her to kill" and especially the last scene between the two at the field of the rocketships (which was resolved without anything you could call a Deus Ex Machina) add an emotional aspect between the two enemies as a key factor in the Masters defeat, something the defeat of the Dalek Emperor, the Cult of Skaro, Davros and Rassilon did not have to that extend. Also, instead of the Doctor or his companion just saving the day it's teh work of the entire planet combined. It's one of my favourite scenes in all of "Doctor Who".
I think the only reason the deus ex machina is somewhat justified is that even now Earth in the Doctor Who universe would be recovering from when the Master reduced loads of it to holes in the ground.
How to fix (some of) these things:
TV Movie - Have the Eighth Doctor use his regeneration energy to directly revive them, like how River revived The Doctor in Lets Kill Hitler
Last Of The TIme Lords - The Doctor is transported to the Paradox machine and uses that to reverse his aging/the Earth. The Paradox machine regenerates itself back into the TARDIS. Everybody still remembers The Year That Never Was, however.
Great! Except that River sacrificed every one of her remaining, undetermined number of regenerations to revive the Doctor. Regeneration energy isn't as powerful as one might think - it takes a tremendous amount of it to reverse death.
In the case of the Paradox Machine, both of those points don't make sense. The Doctor enters the Machine, fine - but how does he use it to reverse his aging, or the Earth? It has been frequently discussed that the Doctor can't travel down his own timeline because it's incredibly dangerous and liable to create enormous paradoxes.
Loved it. Definitely do the classic series. I’d say the witchfinders was the worst deus ex machina but I am yet to watch it properly as it was so boring that I fell asleep. If you ask me then the worst is terror firma. Literally nothing happens for two hours and the day is saved by an old lady being a bad ass and the doctor letting davros die in pain. But at least he stopped the daleks once and for all. Oh wait no he makes them promise to never return to earth. Because that’s stopped them before.
Ok The Power of Three might of had a Deus Ex Machina but that episode is God Tier. I mean it up there in the top 10 of the best NuWho episodes.
Well I guess I found Chris Chibnall's YT sock puppet account
1:09 - And as the lightning bolt was supposedly caused by a solar flare, how did it happen in the middle of the night?
Weird inconsistency, it gets referred as both lightning and a gamma space thing.
Good video Look forward to more
Forever Autumn does actually sound like an Evanescence song 🥰
it came out in 78, when did Evanescence?
in my head cannon the 11th doctor after all those years regretting his death nips in to the ship in his tardis and saves adric at the last minute.
But we've already seen what happens to adric in earthshock part 5?? Why would you need a headcannkn for what happens to him?
Power of three episode...?? I seriously don't remember that one and I've watched any pond dunno g around so much... which I meant to say the Matt Smith era on repeat ofc
It's one of those forgettable Doctor Who stories, like "42"
Oh my God - another person who didn't understand the conclusion to "Lie of the Land"? Bill didn't save the day with love - she defeated the Monks fake news with the "Truth"... the clue is kind of in the episode title - and in the Doctor's line "she's a window on the world without the Monks."
...and The Doctor thought "Appalling Hair" was the one who wasn't paying attention to what had just happened?!
You are literally the only other person I've encountered who understands the ending of that story.
@@karkatvantas9557 Well at least there's two of us! What frustrates me the most is not that people misunderstand the ending but that they use that misunderstanding to hate on the episode! As I said elsewhere recently I think RTD's "Years & Years" used a very similar resolution to a similar scenario.... broadcasting the truth directly to the people is the way to defeat anyone who is controlling the media with fake news!
John A I was being purposely facetious. It is still an ending based on technobabble undoing technobabble and love saving the day.
John A That’s subtext, and very nice...but this video isn’t about that.
@@SamyulDavis Maybe not - but you've used a video which "isn't about that" to help perpetuate a misunderstanding about a story which is fundamentally about dispelling misinformation! That's like irony on top of irony!!!
Last of the Time Lords actually set up its ending earlier in the season. "The Shakespeare Code" basically exists to establish a precedent for the power of story-based technology. The problem is that The Shakespeare Code is such a forgettable episode that people don't remember it well enough to put 2 and 2 together on that one... (EDIT: Bother, looks like someone beat me to this one. >_
"But the 'consolation' of fairy-tales has another aspect than the imaginative satisfaction of ancient desires. Far more important is the Consolation of the Happy Ending. Almost I would venture to assert that all complete fairy-stories must have it. At least I would say that Tragedy is the true form of Drama, its highest function; but the opposite is true of Fairy-story. Since we do not appear to possess a word that expresses this opposite - I will call it Eucatastrophe. The eucatastrophic tale is the true form of fairy-tale, and its highest function.
"The consolation of fairy-stories, the joy of the happy ending: or more correctly of the good catastrophe, the sudden joyous “turn” (for there is no true end to any fairy-tale): this joy, which is one of the things which fairy-stories can produce supremely well, is not essentially 'escapist', nor 'fugitive'. In its fairy-tale-or otherworld-setting, it is a sudden and miraculous grace: never to be counted on to recur. It does not deny the existence of dyscatastrophe, of sorrow and failure: the possibility of these is necessary to the joy of deliverance; it denies (in the face of much evidence, if you will) universal final defeat and in so far is evangelium, giving a fleeting glimpse of Joy, Joy beyond the walls of the world, poignant as grief.
"It is the mark of a good fairy-story, of the higher or more complete kind, that however wild its events, however fantastic or terrible the adventures, it can give to child or man that hears it, when the “turn” comes, a catch of the breath, a beat and lifting of the heart, near to (or indeed accompanied by) tears, as keen as that given by any form of literary art, and having a peculiar quality." -- J.R.R. Tolkien, "On Fairy-stories"
Will you do something on Stranger Things?
You missed the entire point of the sleep dust monsters from Sleep No More. The entire point of why they are dangerous is because we have been trying to cheat ourselves out of needing to sleep. Without feeling the need to wipe away the sleep dust, the sleep dust gathers and becomes a monster trying to claim its sleep-deprived victims.
Haha I know, I’m making a joke about it not amounting to much.
Hey Samuel, I would really, really, really appreciate if you could reply to this comment and give me some tips on what you use for your videos.
I wanna do UA-cam and I’m stuck on what type of videos I will do, show my face and just ramble OR talk about a subject and then show pictures or clips of whatever movie, TV show etc I’m talking about.
So would appreciate if you told me what laptop you use, any equipment you use (microphone and so on) and what editing format you like.
Seriously would appreciate the help! (Got anxiety so I wanna do UA-cam to deal with it and sort of fight my anxiety)
Snowball Ice mic is cheap and durable. A great beginner mic that I honestly haven’t/might not grow out of for its ease of use.
Corel Videostudio or IMovie are my suggestions or editing programs, eventually moving on to final cut or adobe premiere pro- which I run on my tower computer. I personally don’t edit on a laptop, but I’m sure some can. Nearly all cameras are UA-cam standard now :)
Editing-wise? Try be snappy and distinct. Few videos need to be 25 minutes+ without cuts. I personally improvise and then cut half of it along with any pauses or tangents...but a script or bullet point outlines are essential.
Oh and for clips? UA-cam downloaders are A okay, but Corel comes with the easiest screen capture software imaginable. I just record clips and episodes straight from the browser. You’re seeing Netflix footage.
Samuel Davis Thank you so much mate! Really appreciate it.
whats the first song used at the start?
Maybe an unpopular opinion, but I don't really have any issues with Grace and Lee coming back to life. Perhaps partly because I'm just more fond of the TV Movie in general than others? And I do like the whole theme of holding back death the story focuses on, so thematically, I get why the ending happened. But I also don't see it as something the TARDIS can just always do. It feels like something that the TARDIS could only guide into happening through the Eye of Harmony being open that long, generating enough energy or whatever for the resurrecting to be possible, and as it being open clearly could cause a great deal of destruction, it wouldn't really be advisable for the Doctor to just pop it open and leave it to simmer whenever a companion dies. And obviously he didn't expect the TARDIS to perform a rare miracle, so it's not something that could really be counted on even if the risks were negligible.
To be fair to the Power of Three, the rumour is that the actor playing the villain was so badly behaved and uncooperative that they had to change him at the last minute into an emotionless AI, because that was the limit of his acting, and so they were forced to resolve it through deus ex machina.
I think Marvel did a nice approach with Endgame. It was a reset with consequences.
I was more talking about the timeskip than the reset :)
What is Super-Sayen?
A deus ex machina is acceptable if it has sufficient set-up, explanation and consequences. Otherwise it's too obvious. But to be fair, all good endings have those things. So really it's not so much about deus ex machinas as having a satisfying ending.
If it has a set up then by definition it's not a deus ex machina though
Apparently the guy who played the villain in "The Power of Three" was really uncooperative?
Not sure about my least favourite deus ex machinas, but Moffat loves them. I personally hate how the whole universe was gone in the S5 finale...yet there’s no consequences at all. No destroyed worlds or buildings, no races destroyed and so on.
Also really hate how Moffat likes the “Love is the best weapon ever!” And “there’s nothing more dangerous than an angry parent” which we saw when the cybermen were defeated because Craig...heard his baby cry?
Maybe in Last of Timelords they should have saved the Doctor but kept the world messed up and then in S4 they could have the Earth under Master rule vs Davros and the Daleks. Then we probably wouldn't have gotten Donna though... Forget I said anything.
Holy canoly that would have been marvellous :D I'm sure Donna could have been still alive in the Master's world, hiding away somewhere.
I love this idea. I also dearly love The Sontaran Strategem and the already-packed Stolen Earth. Still- I WANT to see that version.
@@SamyulDavis We need a proper episode of Davros vs Master. All we've had is that brief moment in Witches' Familiar.
How ‘bout ALL Steven Moffat resolutions?
ugh. learn what a deus ex machina is.
Oh my God they’re all terible. Moffat is the worst.
...when he was showrunner. Blink and The Doctor Dances and Forest of the Dead were all pretty non-deus-ish. EDIT: oh and the initial episode with the Silence was actually a really clever resolution to me - 'You should kill us all on sight!' though, I guess it was pretty lucky that Silent said that particular thing. What if it hadn't? *Then* where would we be, eh?
The only acceptable 'we'll broadcast the truth!' resolution in Who. Because the speakers happen to be camouflage Slendermen.
I don’t mind deus ex machina as long as it has real consequences.
1. Rose looking into the tardis and killing all the Daleks instantly is very deus ex machina but there are consequences like the doctor has to take the energy to save her and regenerate and captain jack is now immortal (for better or worse)
Similar things happen in all of RTD’s finales with a companion or doctor suffering consequences. It can at times feel very convenient but at least there are negative results.
In the Moffat era we see some deus ex machina without consequences.
The series 5 finale ends with the universe saved and doctor and companion reunited. It’s a fun positive ending but it makes the whole crack story line feel very pointless. In series 6 (the worst finale) we see the hammy excuse for the eleventh doctor not dying. It’s another deus ex machina with no real consequences.
Moffat always has a way of ruining his good endings by giving them a “positive spin.” This leads to an unsatisfactory ending like in hell bent when Clara’s perfect death was ruined (same for bill in the doctor falls).
In non finales both show runners had some deus ex machina without consequences, but I find in the RTD era he usually gave some character death to justify it, like Luke in “the poison sky”
Do you seriously think the doctor and chums going to an alternate reality where everything is fine and good would be a "resolution" people would go with?
The conclusion would presumably be in End of Time. So we can sidestep the cult of Saxon voodooing him back to life.
@@SamyulDavis 🤔 that could be pretty cool actually. Just as mad as what we actually got but definitely a cool idea. I had no problems with the undead master stuff tho tbf
@@greghawkins59 Even if you vibe with it, its certainly convoluted for something that is instantly discarded
@@SamyulDavis doctor who is terrible for that, so many plotlines that would have been amazing to explore but just get disgarded
the lonely god
Haven’t been satisfied with New Who endings generally. I’d say you have 98% Ex-Machina endings. For example Dalek finally shoots the Doctor yet the Doctor is not killed (how did Daleks stand a chance in the Time War). Then Stolen Earth is resolved because the Doctor was shot. There are many many more examples.
Hang on a minute, you reference War of the Worlds but don’t reference/know where Forever Autumn is from?!
I’ll give you a clue; listen to the original Jeff Wayne (1978) musical version.
I cut out the joke in the edit because it went on a little TOO long.
I’m headed to the War of the Worlds Musical Interactive Experience in the next few weeks! Fan of the album since childhood.
The Power of Three; From the only living being in the history of the entire multiverse who thought "You know what Planet of the Spiders really needed? A Trump parody!!"
The reason no one queries the lightning DNA thing in Daleks in Manhattan is simple. It’s just so bad a story no one wants to think about it. Dry sewers. Pigs. Songs. Dalek Sec as a human Dalek. (Shudder)
The human Dalek thing was a great idea, and I really like how they played Dalek Sec's slowly-growing humanity. But yeah, the pig soldiers added nothing and the human Dalek look was terrible.
And trust me, *no-one* wants realistic sewers on screen...
This is just too balls deep for Doctor Who.
Everyone is going balls deep on Doctor Who.
Doctor Who is the show the one show you should NOT being taking seriously. It's sci fi for fun. It's a geeky good time on a saturday night, that will play up to B movie silliness way before it dares to take its self too seriously. Every other sci fi is desperately trying to be super serious and real. Let's leave Doctor Who to be glorious nonsense...SO long of course it's knows what to respect - The lore is part of the fun so it should be respected - WARTS AND ALL!
Fuuuuck the lore. I say that from a place of love for the shlocky entertainment.
@@SamyulDavis I don't mean take it seriously, but know the things you don''t change - Daleks, The Phonebox, and don't for example decide The background story to the Timelords is completely different.
Also u could of said every new who story
I think you missed the worst one so far in Dr. Who's history: the 50th Anniversary special.
"Gallifrey was destroyed but ackshually it wasnt because all your favourite Doctors showed up and fixed it and the Daleks just somehow blew themselves up but the Doctor forgot due to wibbly-wobbly timey-wimey stuff and thats why he's sad in Series 1-4. No questions please."