Forge welding blacksmiths tongs - drop tongs weld
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- Опубліковано 8 лют 2018
- Making tongs by forge welding the reins onto the jaws is one of the more traditional ways to make tongs. Often referred to as a lap weld, scarf weld or drop tongs weld. Forging tongs in this manner saves a great deal of time spent drawing out the rein from a single bar. Learning to forge weld opens up many doors that are closed to you as a blacksmith without forge welding.
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www.piehtoolco.com/
www.centaurforge.com/
www.blacksmithsdepot.com/
www.blacksmithbolt.com/
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Blacksmithing and related activities can be hazardous. These videos are not a substitute for competent professional instruction. Your safety is your sole responsibility. Always use appropriate safety equipment including eye and ear protection when working in the shop. Follow manufactures safety guidelines for the use of all equipment. In the event something shown in one of these videos seems unsafe, it is up to you to make the appropriate changes to protect yourself.
First let me say thank you for getting back to me... I'm new a forging and my little brain is trying to gather all the information it can handle.. thanks again.. JJ
Awesome thank you for all the time you spend helping us beginners much appreciated.
Sir.. can I just thank you 👍🏼
I had a nice day in the shop yesterday, we spent about half the day practicing forge welding. We had good success with making some chain links, and we're still working on the drop tong weld. So I'm reviewing your video, learning more each time. This particular video is very helpful, Thanks!
Good fun. I am sure I watch this before. The great part of aging is sometimes you can watch a move twice and not remember what it going to happen. I have a forge that will weld now and I am going back through all your welding videos working on this skill. Thank you for making this content so interesting and informative.
Another great video! Thank you!
Right on! Talent.
This is a gem of a video! Thank you for the instruction!
Nice welding. Making it look easy. Haha always a good video and info.
Thanks again.
you make it look so easy! great information John... thanks so much for sharing!
Amazing video, very informative and helpful!
Thank you for the awesome instruction vids they have helped me a lot!!
You'll be getting alot of thanks from me John. My biggest issue with forge welding was "dirty fire". Ive done a few successful welds on small projects. All little candy cane twists. I recycle alot in my set up until I get a little bigger in my area. I use around a 60/40 ratio. 60% charcoal and 40% anthracite. It works rather well for everything else but welding. And when I mean recycle, I save all the used stuff I clean out and put it in a big holed collender and sift the smaller stuff out. It saves me enough money to keep doing it for now. 🍻
Thanks for the advice, now I only have to practice and make a couple of tongs 👍
Thanx again for the very educational videos you produce
I really love these tong making videos
Thanxalot
From the Netherlands
Doc
I am glad you're enjoying the videos.
I like 7/16ths for the reigns and 3/4 for the bit. It’s the best for my purpose. Great video. I think the welds on the side is because it’s easier as the bit sits flat on the anvil and isn’t moving about
very good job . I am french and blacksmiths
I subscribed to you because of your series of learning. it's been very instructional. I like what you do and I hope you keep doing it for a while =3
I watched Joey Vander Steeg Forge Weld mild steel without Flux.
This makes a very nice series on thongs and welding, helped me a great deal, Thnx! Also made clear why I have cracks, I'll try and avoid that now.
Autocorrect or pun?
Oddly enough I made my first pair of flat bit tongs from two railroad spikes. I wasn't confident in my welds then. But good practice. And a lot more work as you said.
another video full of teaching and tips. thank you
You are welcome
I`ve never had a forge, never done any kind of blacksmithing but when I`ve watched your videos I got an urge to build a forge for myself and try to use your tips and tricks. Just for fun at first. Many thanks !
hats a great place to start
Very nice. Thanks for the video
You're welcome
Great video! I forge weld my tong reins on to avoid drawing out. The weld I use is a double cleft weld like two interlocking "Y" shapes. When heated I can squeeze the toes in with some short tongs, then the piece will hold itself together in the fire better. The prep is time consuming, but the weld blends easily.
Great tip!
Great instruction... as usual.
Thanks
Thankyou a very clear instruction video. Definitely quicker method if you do not have a power hammer, which I don't!
Good Job!
Awesome video!!!!!! I'm going out to my garage right now to try this!
I hope it works out
Great video John
Thanks
Black Bear Forge your very welcome thanks for your content
Looking forward to the face carving video. Great drop tong tutorial!
It should be ready on Sunday
You can also tack the pieces together so they are stuck in place, that should make it a lot easier to forge weld. for those who have a welder
Thanks 🙄 nice job
You 're welcome
Thanks. That sound great carving, looking forward to seeing you make the fire set. Anthony Kent HAWK woodlore knives UK
I should have the Carving of the faces ready to upload tomorrow morning.
Another great video, thank you. People view forge welding as something magical sometimes. One idea for a future time may be upsetting in the middle of a bar by striking the cold ends. Say at the welded area you've over forged and need to thicken up abit. Haven't seen anyone show this.
I may actually show that very soon. I am going to make a poke with the hook welded on in that manner.
Forge welding is which craft, I have attempted so many times , got it to stick and completed a few but none I am proud of! Practice, practice and then try again, one day, maybe !
Absolutely you can forge weld in a gas forge The Last Rose I made I made the base look like a heart and when I folded it over I did a single blow Forge weld in a gas forge
That's great info, John. I'm dying to get the shop set up again and see if my propane forge will get hot enough. It might, it gets to bright orange at about 4-5 psi.
Most propane forges can reach welding heats these days.
Good to know. But I built mine. Still, it's a 20 lb tank with 2" of inswool, 2 layers of Satanite and two layers of ITC100. Got all that, except the tank, at High Temp Tools. I also made the burner.
John, A great presentation once again, I have managed to forge weld a pair of tongs, a lot of mucking around and as you point out quite skillful. I am strictly a hobby metal worker so time is important I think I will stick to either drawing the reigns out or using the MIG welder and then re-forging. I am not that interested in the traditional way as we now have a range of tools available to the modern metal worker that our grand sires did not have. But thanks a lot for the time and effort you put in to these presentations.
Kind Regards
Steve
A MIG welder certainly works. I have seen those that are more practiced at forge welding than I am and they can prep the weld, make the weld and finish the forging mush more efficiently than I can grind, MIG clean up the weld and then get back to forging. Even though I will primarily promote the more traditional approaches, it doesn't mean I don't see the value in the newer techniques.
Great tutorial as always, one question, with these being so fiddly, is there any reason not to just make a longer scarf, wrap some steel wire around it to hold it in place, heat it up together and weld it like that?
If the scarf is to long it is difficult to get the weld to take completely. This forces more heats trying to catch the scarf ends that didn't weld, which then results in over thinning of the material. Generally shorter, heavier scarfs tend to make for better welds because they can be welded and refined in fewer heats.
Great video as usual.
I have herd in the past that I can’t forge weld with a charcoal fire.
I have a bag of coke but it is hard to source at my location.
I can make charcoal for free but am I dreaming about using it to forge weld?
Would love to see your forge doing a demo with charcoal.
Thanks
David
I will plan on doing that. It takes a little longer to come up to heat with charcoal, but it can be done. It is one of the oldest forge fuels.
Great, I’ll keep an eye out for it (so to speak)
I’ll wear my safety glasses.
Jared Russell has a youtube video for welding mild steel, which is to get it burning really really well, then lap the material over itself. Burn it really really well and lightly tap it together.
Care to comment on the burn it for an extended amount of time and use no flux forge weld method?
If you're burning steel you're ruining it. It is said that the more experienced the smith, the lower the welding heat. Even those that prefer to weld without flux don't need to over heat the material.
Thank you very much for your video. I was wondering if it is convenient to forge-weld the jaws of the tongs in order to have more material in the making of a big square tongs to hold pieces from 1 3/4" to 2" material, which is going to be made into a hammer. I have some pieces of round 3/4" low carbon steel, and I'm not sure if they have enough material to make the jaws, even with some upsetting, to make the planned work. I would appreciate your aswer.
you probably can, but 3/4 round isn't a bad size for lighter tongs
@@BlackBearForge Yes, I know, because I've been looking your videos. Thank you for your response.
Good video. I find this was very hard when I tried it. I think a problem was that that the scarf always started sparking before the thicker parts were up to temperature. Which made it so I never knew when it was the right temperature. What I noticed here and what seems to be the case is that the steel is still sparking when put on the anvil. So maybe I simply had too cold steel parts.
Sparking is actually a bit hotter than desired. The key is to come up to heat slowly so that the thicker parts can get to welding heat.
@@BlackBearForge thanks for the reply! I noticed you said that but didn't realize why so I didn't register it. Next time will be easier!
The other advantage of the side oriented weld is the you can get the tong end to lie flat without the weight of the jaw tending to make it want to fall sideways during the weld.
true
Great video, im keen to get to the forge welding stage. Getting there with my own tongs. Need to ask some advice though from +Black bear Forge or anyone else watching. Have a pair of very small tongs made from 3/8 round bar (EN1A aka 1113 mild steel), upset the ends to thicken and make the bit and boss. Work great, except they have a habit where the reigns bend/squeeze in as I grip the work in them. Gets to the point where the reigns are level. I've kinda figured out how to bend them out. But I must be putting stress on the mettle constantly doing this. Given its my first pair and thoughts on which part I may have done wrong or too thin? I think there bending after the boss, but not sure.
Probably just to thin of material. If you heat them to bend them back it shouldn't stress them to much.
cheers. I'll see how my next larger flat bit tongs come out. Hopefully will be better with more meat to them.
Seems like a neodymium magnet would help hold the tong half in place. I might try that.
Might work if placed far enough out to grab cooler material. The material at or about a red heat is non magnetic.
Black Bear Forge I did your wheat twist handle the other day. I had trouble with it sliding around on the anvil while making the scarf weld to the shaft. Wish I had tried a welding magnet before giving up (other welds came out nicely). I cheated and just wire welded it. Still makes a nice ash tool for my Big Green Egg, but I won’t be bragging on myself over it. 😊
What distance do you use for the 2nd and 3rd set down. The second one can determine if you're going to have distance for articulation on the tongs to move properly without binding. I think I heard Mark Aspery mention on the 2nd set down pull it back onto the anvil a little bit, so from the shoulder of the first set down, and when you turn left and put it over the edge of the far side of the anvil. Hope this makes sense John?
The best thing to do is use an existing pair of tongs as a size reference. I try to make the 2nd and 3rd steps the same as the width of the material (after forming and spreading the second step) so that I end up with a round boss.
Is there much difference in forging welding mild compared to say higher carbon steels making damascus for knifeblades?
Yes, the higher carbon welds at a lower heat and is much easier to burn. For welding Damascus you will have both and the overlap in temperatures for welding can be quite narrow. But its just a matter of practice
Do you have a link for the long wired brush that you use, I have a butcher block brush but it's too stiff for most of the stuff I forge, thanks for the video.
I think Pieh Tool has them www.piehtoolco.com/contents/en-us/d732.html
could you weld a long piece of 5/8 square for the jaw to a 3/8 round handle then cut off the excess square, so that tongs were not necessary at all?
It would be worth trying. As long as you can manage the two longer bars at the anvil it should work.
Can you weld with a gas forge ? Or it will not get Hot enough? Thank
some gas forges do and some don't. As forge design improves I think most gas forges can reach welding temperature, although it is also affected by altitude.
John I have tried this lot's of times and can't get it to work.Have tried in my gas forge with heat turned right up and in my little coke forge.
While most gas forges will reach welding heat, not all will. It often takes very small adjustments to get the gas pressure and air intake just right. If you have a good deep coke fire with a good blower I would think it should work. If you know another smith in your area that can work with you, they might be able to look at your forges to make sure they can reach welding temps.
Thanks John, I might have to try adjusting the gas and air a bit more, I don't know if my coke forge is deep enough, it's home made and sits on the ground, made the fire pot sort of v shaped with a pipe under neath with grooves cut in with a grinder, and then a bit of tin sits on top at the bottom of the v made with fire clay and fireproof cement, and the blower is just an air dryer, don't have a good hand crank, can't afford one yet, and second hand one's here in Australia are like hens teeth to find.
John here is a pic of my little coke forge: imgur.com/oLUuNLe
And another one: imgur.com/4UmX63J
One thing that actually make a pretty good forge blower is what they use to inflate the bouncy castles for kids parties. They are cheap, but put out the right air pressure and flow. Probably won't last a life time, but should be good for several years. Check ebay.
Hello black bear 🐻 forge. If you ever see this comment, do you know where I can find a good power hammer 🔨 that is cheap but still in good shape. Please answer 🙏.
Good and cheap are usually at opposite ends of the scale. The best deals usually come from local sources in your area
I have been looking for a few years, in my part of the world used power hammers are like rocking horse manure, building my own!
A puzzle piece shape?
Also, you are one of the most sensible speaking people I have been blessed to listen to.
How about build a power hammer
I have 2 very nice power hammers, better than anything i could build. Plus I wouldn't have any room in the shop to add another power hammer
John can you weld in a gas forge?
Lenblacksmith I forgeweld in my gas forge. And that's only with one burner on I don't even have the other two on.
Ok Ben, thanks, I have tried I have one burner and turned the gas up and the air choke it was fairly raging, is it supposed to sparkle? In the little coke forge I have melted metal but can't seem to get the welding done right.
Lenblacksmith yeah typically if it's sparkling that's almost too hot because that is your carbon being able to escape your your Steel
Ok so how do you know what is the right temp/heat I suppose it is a white heat and John was saying you can see if they want to stick together in the forge?
Lenblacksmith I am no professional by any means so this is all just that works for me. you got it bright heat White just before start sparkling and yeah you can touch them together in the Forge and if they're get kind of sticky it's game on. But that might also be the flux can also get a little sticky. I got too much on some of mine and it's all over my fire bricks and makes the fire brick sticky.