Very cool take. Best road bike I ever owned was a 1985 FXWG Wide Glide. With the 5 gallon tanks I could ride over 5 hours straight without stopping. I considered it the best of the old and new--- solid mount Evo motor in the 4 speed FX/FL frame with a kickstarter & rear belt. Unfortunately, Harley jettisoned their past in 1986 when they phased out the manufacturing philosophy that had accounted for over 50 years of parts interchangeability (36-86) across several BT platforms, that invited customer participation (which gave rise to bobjobs, choppers and customs), and an unparalleled brand loyalty. These qualities made Harley unique and distinctive, and for whatever reason, it was all abandoned by the company over 30 years ago. Today, an HD is no different than a Honda or any other motorcycle manufacturer--- they are all building copies of specific HD models that were last produced in the 80s. I think the Motor Company could have designed an entirely new modern motorcycle back then that was consistent with their signature philosophy, which allowed for retrofitting with earlier models, and retained the qualities that made the MoC so special. Modernity & tradition are not mutually exclusive, it's not an either/or proposition, but, unfortunately, Harley long ago shitcanned their tradition and have only modernity to offer to fickle customers who have zero connection with any particular company's past. I have two Shovels and two ironheads. My daily driver is a 1982 Sturgis that I put 20,000 miles on last year. Complexity for its own sake has a limited appeal.... for me, at least
As a home mechanic I love the evo engine. No stupid computers or complicated wiring. I can easily diagnose and fix any issues on my bike without specialty tools
You finally get it. It doesn't make sense for the company to keep catering to a base who only want to buy bikes made 50 years ago. Those folks aren't buying out of a dealership anyway, so they're not actually supporting the MoCo. The M8 is a beast, and just because it's "different" doesn't mean it lacks "soul." "Soul" is just a way of glossing over outdated tech. There's a place for that old tech, absolutely. But that place isn't on a showroom floor or in the modern market. Demanding otherwise is just calling for the death of the brand.
I’m 31 years old and a couple years ago I got to ride my fathers 93 heritage for a couple months. Loved that bike and felt like it had a lot of soul. One year ago I bought an 18 heritage 107 and really enjoy it. Great for touring and laying down the miles. Sure it doesn’t feel like it has the soul like an EVO 1340 does but she sure does ride smooth!
Yeah I used to bad mouth ultra classic riders for their music when I was riding an 01 Roadking with 16”apes and fishtail exhausts. But I went and rode a ultra three weeks ago and road it home. The comfort is incomparable and my wife absolutely loves the ride on the ultra. Eating my words now. I appreciate your honest review of the new bikes. I’m always looking for the next Saddletramp video. Have a great day brother.
The 2020 range of HD"s and Indian are on a new level.....very impressed. The new Honda Goldwing is also a step up......well done to these companies and good on them!!!!!
The only way I would have one of the new bikes is if I was NOT planning to work on it. I'm not that guy. I like to work on my bikes. This means I like the EVO in Sporty or Big Twin form. Period. This also means that I do not buy new bikes; never have, never will. Same with cars.
I have the same exact 94 like yours that I bought new 25 years ago, she"s got 50 K on her. Also have a 2018 Street Glide . Love both for what they are. I still regret not buying a 77 Lowrider when it came out. Variety is the spice of life.
Tramp, Here is my take from you just you switching from the new bikes back to your EVO... I could “actually feel” the old school rumble and soul of your motorcycle as you where riding it back home. Yes, the new ones are fantastic bikes for sure... but one thing I just felt through the video was the actual soul of your bike in terms of its mechanical sound and feel. Something Harley Davidson has purposely “engineered out” of the new bikes. Yes, I was actually able to feel the difference through your video! I am a Shovelhead and EVO owner for many years..and i won’t let them go because I loved what Harley Davidson did to them..they have a manly mechanical feedback engineered into them that can’t be described until you experience it. I guess you can say, when your riding a old Harley your not insulated from it, it becomes part of you, You can’t be insulated from it. That being said, I also plan on test riding a new Lowrider, I have a mint 93 EVO Lowrider and it’s not going anywhere! You will see it at the 2020 meet up!
You are soooo right on the money with that. And perfect terminolgy to descibe it. I use that term too ("soul") when I'm talking about the pre-twincam motors. Those feel more like some kind of entity to than a machine. Riding them or working on them. When I got back on my bike I felt more at home with it. One thing is for sure, is that if ever I were to have a new bike, this one and the Tramp will still remain the top bikes in my garage.
I got the 19 low rider 107 words can’t describe it but the smile on my face every time I get on her i’ve already put 4500 miles on it for three monthsI just didn’t want to help you an absolute blast right on the way to bye Canon just as crazy
Picked up a 1998 STC at an estate sale. It was dusty and covered in cigarette smoke. Brought it home, cleaned it up and put a battery in. Turn the knob and find out it only had 197 miles. I almost couldn't believe the OD. Started to look close and i found all the original build stickers on the underside of the tank and fenders. Born on 4/23/98 at 4:13am. I am a motorcyclist have had many brands including vintage British. This thing is awesome. Love the torque and sound. Put larger jets in and it is a fun putt. i will have it for many years to come.
@@SaddleTrampTV best find of my life. I am always looking for good finds like an eagle eye. This one was a find a lifetime. Black and chrome with heavy leather bags. Bags are straight and clean. I couldn't believe it! Almost like the old man that passed made me stop and save this thing from being molested to death. Keeping it stock and true to form.
I’m so glad I came into riding motorcycles as an “outsider” of sorts. I started riding in late 2020 at the age of 52. I had no preconceived notions of what a Harley should or shouldn’t be. Or any other motorcycle for that matter. I do remember being kinda shocked that anyone was still making an “air cooled” engine in 2020! Not realizing that Harley HAS TO make A/C engines or no one will buy them 🤷🏻♂️. Anyway, fast forward to early 2022 and I’m on my second Harley Davidson! My first was a 2020 iron 883 which I just traded in for the last, leftover, ‘21 FXLRS on the lot!!! What a step up!! I am absolutely in love with my low rider S and can’t imagine I’ll ever need anything more than this. I absolutely love the M8 platform! The only thing I might trade in for in the future will be a revolution max platform but that 114 M8 in my FXLRS coupled with the suspension, the new frame, the handling, the LOOKS 👀! All of it. It’s just a great motorcycle……for a 700lb Harley Davidson, that is. I love mine!
I'm fine with, and do ride an older HD, but I think it's great that " Our" motor company is staying relevant for those who want advanced handling and performance. I think the last thing any of us would want to see is the company folding. Thanks for your efforts...good stuff
Now you have a good picture of old vs new!!!! I like what you said about how the motor company is just evolving and not abandoning the consumer base that enjoys the older engines. One thing in life is guaranteed and that is change! Ride safe Brother.... 🙏🏼
I love my 17 M8 FLHP and even with a stage 2 it's still kind of a turtle. Great video looking forward to your winter riding videos while we sit in the deep freeze hoping for an early spring.
I'm glad moco is keeping up with the times, they need to or else die. New buyers want plush and smooth rides like their Lexus, and that's okay. I guess I'm getting old and probably should get me one of these new smooth sleds. I've been riding since the 60s on all kinds of brands and the only thing that keeps me riding is the feel of the bike through my bones. That's why I keep my old softail evo, she makes me feel young again.
I know what you mean brother. I had a 2000 Heritage and it was a phenomenal bike! 120 mph quick and easy! I'm lookin at buying another. My favorite bike that Harley put out.
I remember a few vids back bro about losing the enjoyment of the ride humm I think it’s true you just wanted to open it up lol at least you had fun thanks for your thoughts
Cool video, my man. Glad you had another one of life's experiences...I went out riding in the cold today (Atlanta :low 50's but sunny) and feel blessed to be alive...I know you do too! Ride on, friend
I know the weather here is crazy. I really like your videos even if I only rode one harley in my life. Ive rode british bikes most of my life but thinking about building me a old school trike. I use to love wrenching on my bikes but its been years and Im disabled now and the wife has sworn me off of 2 wheels.
I have a twin cam 96 fatboy. I had my sights on the M8. I njust bought an 89 softball classic due to the appreciation for your perspective. Don’t worry, I am still looking forward to the M8. I’m also looking for a shovelhead.👍
When I took the new M8 bikes out for a test ride I couldn't believe I was riding a Harley. So different. Smooth. They call it progress and that's a good thing to keep the brand relevant. Ditched my FXDLS. The old EVO FLSTN is still in the garage - it now shares the room with a new Gold Wing 😁
I’ll keep my 07 softail standard. The new ones are nice but I know if I ride one, I’m going to want to buy one! Can’t do it. Thanks for the review. Ride easy brother!
Super nice video, I have been really enjoying your very informative UA-cam channel! Thanks for being so open , and also thank you for your Christian views!!! God bless you man. I’m up here in north Alabama but hope to ride with you someday
I own a touring bike and wanted something a little more sporty for around town, crusing the moutains and just getting out for a fun ride. The 2020 LRS fit the bill perfectly for me. It's the best complement to my bigger bike. People talk about "soul" and "old school" but everything about motorcycling is a passion for me, the date of the motorcycle's birth is irrelevant to me as long as the bike speaks to ME.
Great video. Met a guy with an M8 asked him how he liked it. He said do you like your bike? I said yea I love my 103. He said then don’t ride one of these cause you won’t want to get back on yours. I took his advice lol
Thnx for the video. You know that there is only one way to get through, right? You will end up like me; keep the EVO for the eye, ear and soul bath and get a new one (m8 ultra) for the highway. Keep up great work, honest friend.
You obviously had a good time and that as well as the experience was all you were after anyway. I know what you meant awhile back about Harley seeming to lose their way with the newer bikes and you have it figured out. They really didn't. They are doing what they have always done by offering a great bike that a lot of people love. The real soul and charisma of the bikes has always come from the riders. That's why there is and always will be those who have an era they love and stick with it. Nothing wrong with that by the way. I have a twin cam and an evo and love them both for what they do. Even all of the skulls, flames, gremlins etc. came completely from the riders and over time has been incorporated into the company. Let's face it, several years ago, hard tails, choppers, skulls, tattoos etc. were all considered taboo by the masses and mostly reserved for the real bad-asses but somehow it has all gone mainstream now. Times are just different now and so are the bikes. I'm just glad Harley is still making great bikes and that there are plenty of old ones and parts out there too. BTW - Love to all you riders of Indians, Triumph, Honda, Yamaha etc. etc. too. I'm glad you are all out there enjoying the ride and keeping the awareness alive. I ride what I like and so should you. It would be a boring world if there was only one brand available anyway.
Glad you made the ride. My brother once told me are 340 Rokon Flat tracker was to fast ?? To fast for Racing, but what fun. Two first pace finish in LA. Tonight on a 68 Ossa and a 74 PDV . Old don't mean slow. Thanks for your ride review. Rokon Racing Team Gearless.
Thanks for the review. I currently own a 2003 Road King and a 2005 Deluxe. Both are TC88 engines and have the cam chain tensioner design flaw (in my opinion). So, as I approach 30K miles, I need to decide how I want to fix the cam chain tensioners. I check my RK at 20K miles and the inner and outer tensioner pads looked good. This has really soured me on HD and I will not buy another HD. Between my wife, riding friends, people I have met, this has cost HD 20 sales of a new bikes. The M8 has had a number of problems and HD seems to have a marketing strategy of fix it as we go.
I'm still in love with my 20 year old FatBoy. The only difference is I'm running a 124ci with 166hp. It'll eat those new 114 M8 bikes. That's been proven. You are right about them. They don't vibrate like a Harley. You can ride one 500 plus miles a day. Get off of it and still be able to walk. When i do 500 miles in a day. I'm happy to see my hotel room. If not that. I'm happy just after i get my tent up an my bag inside. I purchased a Suzuki Hayabusa several years back. That bike i can ride from sun up till sun down. Get off of it and go play until the sun comes up. Jump right back on it a go once again until the sun goes down again. Ill never give up on my 124 EVOLUTION motor....
Thank You for an educated observation on opinions, business and just the way time’s have to change so that businesses can survive mc or otherwise. Positive thinking is what we need in this world.
I have a Heritage 114 and it's a great do it all bike. I have a 107 sport glide and a 114fat bob and the Heritage is the go to bike. It does everything great. I know I spend way to much on bikes.
I love the club Dyna look . To me the low rider as soft tail is sacrilege. I Commented in it before that my 95 fxd Has the screaming Eagle stage 3 set up from the factory. In the future if it's mechanically possible I would love to try to stuff one of those Milwaukee 8 motors in my Dyna but if it won't fit I know I could build a monster twin Cam . I no expert but I have seen multiple tear down videos where those Milwaukee motors eat up the top of the head and destroy the head gasket. Great video .👍👍👍👍🇺🇸😎
That was a good honest video. I feel the same. I picked out my 94 Heritage and waited for it to come in. I still have it. I thought about maybe getting a Street Glide or a Road Glide down the road or perhaps when I retire. However this 94 will always be number one I will beat the hell out of the new bike that I get go on Long rides with it but the 94 will always be number one oh by the way I call her baby. I would send you a picture of her but there's no way of sending pictures on here
It's easy to be on the fence between a older bike, like your EVO Heritage and the new bikes. I like my '95 Wide Glide a lot, but man would I love to have a 2018-2020 Heritage Classic! Thanks for the video. Entertaining and informative as always.
I just looked at a softail slim; I like the old look. It wasn’t $1599 msrp. $1833 with tax & lic $20k. No thanks !!!- Keep my 2003 softail standard . Got cams in it ; pipes ; carb; air cleaner ; big bore next. Keep it simple that’s what motorcycles are about. We’ll haves a nice day and thanks for the show. 🤠❤️🤠✊🙏🏻👌💪
Great video! As always ;-) Glad you got the opportunity to ride the new bikes. Those M8's really are great, aren't they! I'm not far from Slidell, and I just might run across I-10 to visit Mike Bruno's place. I'll tell you, as the owner of a Sportster and a Street Bob, I absolutely *hate* going to my local dealer here in Pensacola. They will not leave you alone to just look at bikes - they hover over you like a drone over the topless beach. Their sales techniques are High-Pressure X 10. Super annoying. It's weird. Harley keeps desperately trying to sell new product to choir - us old guys who already own Harleys (I'm 64). They *should* be reaching out to people who've never ridden one and have those negative preconceived notions about them. Anywaaaaayy, enough ranting - glad you had fun!
I’ve owned a ‘79 FLH, ‘88 Heritage, 883xl and now a ‘92 FatBoy that I bought new. I’m about over the vibration. Looking at your mirrors, your Evo Softail doesn’t seem to vibrate nearly as bad as mine does. Not only is the rear view a total blur, looking forward is a blur from my eyeballs vibrating at 65+mph. Love my 27 yr old FatBoy except for that. If the M8 is vibration free, I’m ready to trade up.
Last week I bought a 1981 FXB, could have gotten a new M8 bike for the same money. I like the noise and vibes of the old bike. But apart from not being into the new bikes, they are so expensive. If you are a new bike rider youll probably get into the habit of getting a new one every 3 to 5 years (that seems to be the case here in Switzerland). The depriciation alone... the FXB will not depriciate anymore. If necessary, from the depreciation money saved over the years Ill be able to get a brand new S&S motor, Baker transmission etc etc for my FXB. I'd rather spend my money that way and keep the old girl going...
1 thing with the new Harley's= Don't forget to take spare Batteries for "FOB" and remember your pin number lol, I love my 883. When your doing 70 it seems it wants to do more. from across the pond. Safe riding.
Worked in the H-D business for two years, right about the time the M8 came out. I was still a die hard evo guy at the time and had never even ridden a twinkie, much less an M8. I can say with complete confidence the M8 is one of the best engines they have ever had, right up there with the evo. They are really great bikes and that new softail frame is bad to the bone. The price is still way too steep.
The M8 with the single gear drive cam was a direction within a known reliable configuration . The 4 valve cylinder head design was also a known configuration for better breathing & overall engine performance enhancement . However the problem with proper crankcase ventilation & a lack of overall oil pump performance is a engineering mystery that is a industry embarrassment . I hear the need for for more performance for the new generation of cyclists but not at the sacrifice of reliability , please !
Good morning Tramp, from deepest darkest East Texas. I gotta say I enjoyed watching you ride the M8 bikes, your reactions to both were great! After shopping the internet for a year I found a 2019 FLHT with 2,000 miles on it that a big guy traded for a Honda because the Electra Glide was too small for him and his wife! I scooped the bike up for $13,500 and had it delivered on December 23rd. I gotta tell you men, I love this bike! Still gotta swap out the solo seat and install boards and a sissy bar for Mama so she can ride too but this thing is sweet! No oil migration problems or any problems for that matter and it is really something having cruise control. Hope to see ya this summer.
I appreciate the fact that you are willing to try the new bikes even knowing how you love the old bikes you ride. Good video honest review like watching this.
Good video. I have tried the new Harley as well and I think they are very good. For now I will stick with my oldies (pan shovel and ironhead) and my Ducati Diavel, but who knows, I'm only 66 so there's still time to change...
There are a lot of bells and whistles on the new bikes, that are kinda cool! But alot of new things to know, especially when you want to work on them! Ride on Brother! Thanks for the video!
That’s pretty cool that you thought of this go to exactly what I was wanted to do. Maybe I’ll go down and try to ride one of them new ones also. But I’m an evo guy now.Nothing beats that vibration in the sound I don’t need to go 1,000,000 miles an hour LOL well thanks for doing this I’m sure it’s enlightning a lot of us
You had me at Knuckle haha! Awesome video as always :) it's always interesting riding different stuff I've been a bit of a bike hopper over the years on the modern ones although those times have come to an end for me I've really settled into my Nortons that's for sure although I do still hop on my 2011 fireblade feels like being on the starship enterprise haha although I've got 100k+ miles on superbikes over the years crazy how fast we all get used to different bikes.Next bike for me is an evo electra glide or heritage :) an eventually I'd love a wla that's probably my dream bike right now once I sell some of my Japanese classics off those are gonna be what I'm looking at. Rambling a bit but I guess what I'm trying to say is we are in a golden age of motorcycles for those of us that love the older bikes the variety of what we can get is awesome an for those that like modern stuff like my dad an his gsxr 750 the m8 motors would probably be the bike to get him on a Harley.
Had my 2018 Sport Glide for a few months now and what a great bike . I think from a business point of view that Harley certainly hit the nail on the head, great handling with a really punchy engine, and if the old school guys throw a leg over one and give it half a chance you can still feel the Harley bloodline running through it.. Peace and all from the UK 😎
I've been riding a 96 inch Twin Cam Electra Glide for some years now. It is cushy, and has all manner of doo-dads and gadgetry. I find myself thinking more and more about a simpler bike. A couple of older Dynas have sold out from under me and the Sportsters just don't seem to fit anymore. A friend's '97 Fat Bob is receiving some considerable ciphering nowadays. Thanks for the video.... really enjoyed it. 👍
Tastes vary, that's a given....but I can only say that the "old school" look of the new Heritage was the only ride in the new line-up that enticed me - versus all other new iterations of existing models (not going into any detail here) - Low rider S was always a "class apart" - having ridden a few dyna's and a Deuce in past I can see why folks are attracted to it...sure thing. As for "new" versus "old" technology - I made a remarkable 180 about a year ago when I finally gave into the idea of riding a fuel injected pony. So the new heritage became my new ride (the one with old looking rusty like color they refer to as denim something). Anyway, I am not trying to make a point here at all but it seems I went into the opposite direction regards to technology upgrades. I love diversity so great to have still a couple of of riding buddies in this neck of woods that stick to their EVO's . Keep safe and ride well.....
Was still ridin my 69 flh in 02 then an old harley rider let me ride his new twin cam! I had similar experience, zdded a Deuce, an in 08 a road glide, have ridden to Sturgis since then 13 times from Ca. 1400 mi one way! Still got 69 but its a trophy!
Man I ride an old Vulcan which is a copy of a soft tail. I test rode the 2019 Heritage Soft Tail at Bumpus Harley Davidson in Murfreesboro Tennessee. It was the 114 M8 and let me tell you it just ruined me. That is just a mad machine so much fun and just power that I couldn't get close to using. I want one so bad I can't stand it but as a poor working man with a paid off bike I just can't. At least not right now. I fully concur with your review.
I am an old Sportster guy. I mean I am old {74} and you are right, you don't know what you don't know. Found out recently that I like windshields, and that forward controls are great. Hell, two months ago I got an 06 Road King and absolutely love it. Now I'm wondering if I've missed something by never dating a fat girl? Anyway love your videos and cheers from NE Alabama.
Saddletramp, I think an M8 chopper would be SO cool wouldn't it be? Ditch the EFI and throw a carb on it. Pacho frame, laced wheels, stretched out springer front end. 👍
I’ve had old Harleys and I’ve had new. Before my massive stroke I had a brand new 2012 Deluxe. Put 18” apes true duals and all the rest. Just now gettin’ back in the saddle and bought a 2004 Heritage. Put 18” apes on it and love it! Miss the 6 speed though, lol
MoCo gotta survive. Made here is a good thing. I have had a bunch of different harleys. Softail frame design always made sense. Articulation at the frame. I did like the improvement that came to the bagger in 09. Today I ride what I built. Enough power to get me around the problem now. Cruises sweet. Manual cruise, no ABS. Having been there the shit is nice. I can only imagine the M8 is nice. 4 valves per cylinder. Its about time harley went for it. VRod was sad to see go.
Pull your upper end off your EVO. Put back on a 95 inch kit. You'll be amazed at the torque that you pick up over an 80 inch motor. You can do this for under a 1000 dollars. If you want to pick up a bit more power. Bump it up to 10.5 compression. Then stick a set of Screamin Begal heads on it. The heads with bring it back down to around 9.5 to 9.7. Put in a cam that matches the rpm you run your bike at the most. Don't forget to pull the heads apart and Lap them in. You'll be amazed at the performance you pick up without affecting your reliability. And not putting out 22,000 to 25,000 dollars for a new bike. OR. If you are a RUB (Rich Urban Biker) go spend that 22 to 25,000 dollars. That new bike is going to look great in your garage. All you friends can come by. Drink a beer and compliment you on what a nice bike you have! Then you can sell it in 3 to 5 years with 2500 to 3500 LOW MILES on it. It'll sell really fast. 😋
I hope Harley Davidson works on their price points so that Millennials will consider riding their bikes. I see some but not many of them in my local Stealership and mine is a GINORMOUS one.
I waited 3 years for HD TO GET THE GREMLINS OUT OF THE M8 ,,and Just purchased My new 2019,Roadking ,,after tons of research,,,I'm Happy !,☆ Roadking 107 ,safe bike to run in high winds ,rain& ,bad roads ,,no problem!☆, I got the feeling of being able to travel Anywhere ,Anytime now !☆,,""Life is good TEEEEE"!!!☆☆☆☆
Love my 2017 Lowrider S, been holding off trying one of the new Lowriders. Like some off the changes they have made( would love the inverted forks and wheels on mine.)
Very cool take. Best road bike I ever owned was a 1985 FXWG Wide Glide. With the 5 gallon tanks I could ride over 5 hours straight without stopping. I considered it the best of the old and new--- solid mount Evo motor in the 4 speed FX/FL frame with a kickstarter & rear belt. Unfortunately, Harley jettisoned their past in 1986 when they phased out the manufacturing philosophy that had accounted for over 50 years of parts interchangeability (36-86) across several BT platforms, that invited customer participation (which gave rise to bobjobs, choppers and customs), and an unparalleled brand loyalty. These qualities made Harley unique and distinctive, and for whatever reason, it was all abandoned by the company over 30 years ago. Today, an HD is no different than a Honda or any other motorcycle manufacturer--- they are all building copies of specific HD models that were last produced in the 80s. I think the Motor Company could have designed an entirely new modern motorcycle back then that was consistent with their signature philosophy, which allowed for retrofitting with earlier models, and retained the qualities that made the MoC so special. Modernity & tradition are not mutually exclusive, it's not an either/or proposition, but, unfortunately, Harley long ago shitcanned their tradition and have only modernity to offer to fickle customers who have zero connection with any particular company's past. I have two Shovels and two ironheads. My daily driver is a 1982 Sturgis that I put 20,000 miles on last year. Complexity for its own sake has a limited appeal.... for me, at least
I remember when people would bad-mouth the EVO when it first came out, now it is considered a classic.
Best motor Harley ever made.... FIGHT ME!
not for nothing either. its a lovely old engine, a very usable classic.
As a home mechanic I love the evo engine. No stupid computers or complicated wiring. I can easily diagnose and fix any issues on my bike without specialty tools
You finally get it.
It doesn't make sense for the company to keep catering to a base who only want to buy bikes made 50 years ago. Those folks aren't buying out of a dealership anyway, so they're not actually supporting the MoCo. The M8 is a beast, and just because it's "different" doesn't mean it lacks "soul." "Soul" is just a way of glossing over outdated tech. There's a place for that old tech, absolutely. But that place isn't on a showroom floor or in the modern market. Demanding otherwise is just calling for the death of the brand.
I’m 31 years old and a couple years ago I got to ride my fathers 93 heritage for a couple months. Loved that bike and felt like it had a lot of soul. One year ago I bought an 18 heritage 107 and really enjoy it. Great for touring and laying down the miles. Sure it doesn’t feel like it has the soul like an EVO 1340 does but she sure does ride smooth!
Yeah I used to bad mouth ultra classic riders for their music when I was riding an 01 Roadking with 16”apes and fishtail exhausts. But I went and rode a ultra three weeks ago and road it home. The comfort is incomparable and my wife absolutely loves the ride on the ultra. Eating my words now.
I appreciate your honest review of the new bikes. I’m always looking for the next Saddletramp video. Have a great day brother.
Me and my vibrating 93 heritage salute you
Lol. Thanks.
The 2020 range of HD"s and Indian are on a new level.....very impressed.
The new Honda Goldwing is also a step up......well done to these companies and good on them!!!!!
I'll stick with the shovels and evo's
You’d better
The only way I would have one of the new bikes is if I was NOT planning to work on it. I'm not that guy. I like to work on my bikes. This means I like the EVO in Sporty or Big Twin form. Period. This also means that I do not buy new bikes; never have, never will. Same with cars.
Then try harder to keep up.
I have the same exact 94 like yours that I bought new 25 years ago, she"s got 50 K on her. Also have a 2018 Street Glide . Love both for what they are. I still regret not buying a 77 Lowrider when it came out. Variety is the spice of life.
Tramp, Here is my take from you just you switching from the new bikes back to your EVO... I could “actually feel” the old school rumble and soul of your motorcycle as you where riding it back home.
Yes, the new ones are fantastic bikes for sure... but one thing I just felt through the video was the actual soul of your bike in terms of its mechanical sound and feel. Something Harley Davidson has purposely “engineered out” of the new bikes. Yes, I was actually able to feel the difference through your video! I am a Shovelhead and EVO owner for many years..and i won’t let them go because I loved what Harley Davidson did to them..they have a manly mechanical feedback engineered into them that can’t be described until you experience it.
I guess you can say, when your riding a old Harley your not insulated from it, it becomes part of you, You can’t be insulated from it. That being said, I also plan on test riding a new Lowrider, I have a mint 93 EVO Lowrider and it’s not going anywhere! You will see it at the 2020 meet up!
You are soooo right on the money with that. And perfect terminolgy to descibe it. I use that term too ("soul") when I'm talking about the pre-twincam motors. Those feel more like some kind of entity to than a machine. Riding them or working on them. When I got back on my bike I felt more at home with it. One thing is for sure, is that if ever I were to have a new bike, this one and the Tramp will still remain the top bikes in my garage.
I got the 19 low rider 107 words can’t describe it but the smile on my face every time I get on her i’ve already put 4500 miles on it for three monthsI just didn’t want to help you an absolute blast right on the way to bye Canon just as crazy
Picked up a 1998 STC at an estate sale. It was dusty and covered in cigarette smoke. Brought it home, cleaned it up and put a battery in. Turn the knob and find out it only had 197 miles.
I almost couldn't believe the OD. Started to look close and i found all the original build stickers on the underside of the tank and fenders. Born on 4/23/98 at 4:13am. I am a motorcyclist have had many brands including vintage British. This thing is awesome. Love the torque and sound. Put larger jets in and it is a fun putt. i will have it for many years to come.
Nice find, man!
@@SaddleTrampTV best find of my life. I am always looking for good finds like an eagle eye. This one was a find a lifetime. Black and chrome with heavy leather bags. Bags are straight and clean. I couldn't believe it! Almost like the old man that passed made me stop and save this thing from being molested to death. Keeping it stock and true to form.
@@bwma Right on
@@SaddleTrampTV BTW I enjoy all of your videos. You embody a true good guy biker. Safe riding and keep up the good work!
I’m so glad I came into riding motorcycles as an “outsider” of sorts. I started riding in late 2020 at the age of 52. I had no preconceived notions of what a Harley should or shouldn’t be. Or any other motorcycle for that matter. I do remember being kinda shocked that anyone was still making an “air cooled” engine in 2020! Not realizing that Harley HAS TO make A/C engines or no one will buy them 🤷🏻♂️.
Anyway, fast forward to early 2022 and I’m on my second Harley Davidson! My first was a 2020 iron 883 which I just traded in for the last, leftover, ‘21 FXLRS on the lot!!! What a step up!! I am absolutely in love with my low rider S and can’t imagine I’ll ever need anything more than this. I absolutely love the M8 platform! The only thing I might trade in for in the future will be a revolution max platform but that 114 M8 in my FXLRS coupled with the suspension, the new frame, the handling, the LOOKS 👀! All of it. It’s just a great motorcycle……for a 700lb Harley Davidson, that is. I love mine!
I'm fine with, and do ride an older HD, but I think it's great that " Our" motor company is staying relevant for those who want advanced handling and performance. I think the last thing any of us would want to see is the company folding. Thanks for your efforts...good stuff
I could tell you had a big smile on your face riding that Softail brother 💯😎
I had a 80 inch evo for 30 years. Test rode the two m8's in the video. I owned my Heritage Softail almost two years now. Love it! Ride on!
Now you have a good picture of old vs new!!!! I like what you said about how the motor company is just evolving and not abandoning the consumer base that enjoys the older engines. One thing in life is guaranteed and that is change! Ride safe Brother.... 🙏🏼
Great vid and review I love the intros like we’re just popping into your garage to see what’s up
I love my 17 M8 FLHP and even with a stage 2 it's still kind of a turtle. Great video looking forward to your winter riding videos while we sit in the deep freeze hoping for an early spring.
May not be an old harley but for now I'll stick with my 09 fxdc. Thanks for the video though👍. I'd love to see you do another like it one day.
I'm glad moco is keeping up with the times, they need to or else die. New buyers want plush and smooth rides like their Lexus, and that's okay. I guess I'm getting old and probably should get me one of these new smooth sleds. I've been riding since the 60s on all kinds of brands and the only thing that keeps me riding is the feel of the bike through my bones. That's why I keep my old softail evo, she makes me feel young again.
I know what you mean brother. I had a 2000 Heritage and it was a phenomenal bike! 120 mph quick and easy! I'm lookin at buying another. My favorite bike that Harley put out.
I remember a few vids back bro about losing the enjoyment of the ride humm I think it’s true you just wanted to open it up lol at least you had fun thanks for your thoughts
Your a super down to earth dude I really enjoy watching your videos and hearing your thoughts on all the bikes.
Harley's always make you smile 🤠🤠
Appreciate your honest feedback and open mindedness. I always enjoy your videos
Thanks, amigo.
Cool video, my man. Glad you had another one of life's experiences...I went out riding in the cold today (Atlanta :low 50's but sunny) and feel blessed to be alive...I know you do too!
Ride on, friend
I know the weather here is crazy. I really like your videos even if I only rode one harley in my life. Ive rode british bikes most of my life but thinking about building me a old school trike. I use to love wrenching on my bikes but its been years and Im disabled now and the wife has sworn me off of 2 wheels.
I have a twin cam 96 fatboy. I had my sights on the M8. I njust bought an 89 softball classic due to the appreciation for your perspective. Don’t worry, I am still looking forward to the M8. I’m also looking for a shovelhead.👍
I thought the same. I test rode a FXLRS 2020 , and then bought it. Freakin love this bike.
When I took the new M8 bikes out for a test ride I couldn't believe I was riding a Harley. So different. Smooth. They call it progress and that's a good thing to keep the brand relevant. Ditched my FXDLS. The old EVO FLSTN is still in the garage - it now shares the room with a new Gold Wing 😁
I’ll keep my 07 softail standard. The new ones are nice but I know if I ride one, I’m going to want to buy one! Can’t do it. Thanks for the review. Ride easy brother!
Super nice video, I have been really enjoying your very informative UA-cam channel! Thanks for being so open , and also thank you for your Christian views!!! God bless you man. I’m up here in north Alabama but hope to ride with you someday
I own a touring bike and wanted something a little more sporty for around town, crusing the moutains and just getting out for a fun ride. The 2020 LRS fit the bill perfectly for me. It's the best complement to my bigger bike. People talk about "soul" and "old school" but everything about motorcycling is a passion for me, the date of the motorcycle's birth is irrelevant to me as long as the bike speaks to ME.
Great video. Met a guy with an M8 asked him how he liked it. He said do you like your bike? I said yea I love my 103. He said then don’t ride one of these cause you won’t want to get back on yours. I took his advice lol
He wasn't kidding either. I fought myself for weeks to not go back and sign the papers.
Thnx for the video. You know that there is only one way to get through, right? You will end up like me; keep the EVO for the eye, ear and soul bath and get a new one (m8 ultra) for the highway. Keep up great work, honest friend.
Gotta love the "Space Balls" reference, ludicrous speed! Currently looking at a Lowrider S in Barracuda Silver...
You obviously had a good time and that as well as the experience was all you were after anyway. I know what you meant awhile back about Harley seeming to lose their way with the newer bikes and you have it figured out. They really didn't. They are doing what they have always done by offering a great bike that a lot of people love. The real soul and charisma of the bikes has always come from the riders. That's why there is and always will be those who have an era they love and stick with it. Nothing wrong with that by the way. I have a twin cam and an evo and love them both for what they do. Even all of the skulls, flames, gremlins etc. came completely from the riders and over time has been incorporated into the company. Let's face it, several years ago, hard tails, choppers, skulls, tattoos etc. were all considered taboo by the masses and mostly reserved for the real bad-asses but somehow it has all gone mainstream now. Times are just different now and so are the bikes. I'm just glad Harley is still making great bikes and that there are plenty of old ones and parts out there too. BTW - Love to all you riders of Indians, Triumph, Honda, Yamaha etc. etc. too. I'm glad you are all out there enjoying the ride and keeping the awareness alive. I ride what I like and so should you. It would be a boring world if there was only one brand available anyway.
Glad you made the ride.
My brother once told me are 340 Rokon Flat tracker was to fast ?? To fast for Racing, but what fun.
Two first pace finish in LA. Tonight on a 68 Ossa and a 74 PDV . Old don't mean slow.
Thanks for your ride review.
Rokon Racing Team Gearless.
Thanks for the review. I currently own a 2003 Road King and a 2005 Deluxe. Both are TC88 engines and have the cam chain tensioner design flaw (in my opinion). So, as I approach 30K miles, I need to decide how I want to fix the cam chain tensioners. I check my RK at 20K miles and the inner and outer tensioner pads looked good. This has really soured me on HD and I will not buy another HD. Between my wife, riding friends, people I have met, this has cost HD 20 sales of a new bikes. The M8 has had a number of problems and HD seems to have a marketing strategy of fix it as we go.
Knowing your that close to Slidell where my pops and I stayed after Katrina I’ll holler at ya when I venture back to Louisiana some day
I'm still in love with my 20 year old FatBoy. The only difference is I'm running a 124ci with 166hp. It'll eat those new 114 M8 bikes. That's been proven.
You are right about them. They don't vibrate like a Harley. You can ride one 500 plus miles a day. Get off of it and still be able to walk. When i do 500 miles in a day. I'm happy to see my hotel room. If not that. I'm happy just after i get my tent up an my bag inside. I purchased a Suzuki Hayabusa several years back. That bike i can ride from sun up till sun down. Get off of it and go play until the sun comes up. Jump right back on it a go once again until the sun goes down again.
Ill never give up on my 124 EVOLUTION motor....
Thank You for an educated observation on opinions, business and just the way time’s have to change so that businesses can survive mc or otherwise. Positive thinking is what we need in this world.
I have a Heritage 114 and it's a great do it all bike. I have a 107 sport glide and a 114fat bob and the Heritage is the go to bike. It does everything great. I know I spend way to much on bikes.
I love the club Dyna look . To me the low rider as soft tail is sacrilege. I Commented in it before that my 95 fxd Has the screaming Eagle stage 3 set up from the factory. In the future if it's mechanically possible I would love to try to stuff one of those Milwaukee 8 motors in my Dyna but if it won't fit I know I could build a monster twin Cam . I no expert but I have seen multiple tear down videos where those Milwaukee motors eat up the top of the head and destroy the head gasket. Great video .👍👍👍👍🇺🇸😎
That was a good honest video. I feel the same. I picked out my 94 Heritage and waited for it to come in. I still have it. I thought about maybe getting a Street Glide or a Road Glide down the road or perhaps when I retire. However this 94 will always be number one I will beat the hell out of the new bike that I get go on Long rides with it but the 94 will always be number one oh by the way I call her baby. I would send you a picture of her but there's no way of sending pictures on here
You can email me at "saddltramp78@gmail.com". No "e" in "saddl".
Looks like a Gardian Angel in your right mirror at 12:20 mark. Great stuff as usual. Ride safe.
It's easy to be on the fence between a older bike, like your EVO Heritage and the new bikes. I like my '95 Wide Glide a lot, but man would I love to have a 2018-2020 Heritage Classic! Thanks for the video. Entertaining and informative as always.
I just looked at a softail slim; I like the old look.
It wasn’t $1599 msrp.
$1833 with tax & lic $20k.
No thanks !!!-
Keep my 2003 softail standard .
Got cams in it ; pipes ; carb; air cleaner ; big bore next.
Keep it simple that’s what motorcycles are about.
We’ll haves a nice day and thanks for the show.
🤠❤️🤠✊🙏🏻👌💪
They have definitely engineered much of the nuances out of what made the older models a “Harley” but no denying.. it does what it does well..
Great video! As always ;-) Glad you got the opportunity to ride the new bikes. Those M8's really are great, aren't they! I'm not far from Slidell, and I just might run across I-10 to visit Mike Bruno's place. I'll tell you, as the owner of a Sportster and a Street Bob, I absolutely *hate* going to my local dealer here in Pensacola. They will not leave you alone to just look at bikes - they hover over you like a drone over the topless beach. Their sales techniques are High-Pressure X 10. Super annoying. It's weird. Harley keeps desperately trying to sell new product to choir - us old guys who already own Harleys (I'm 64). They *should* be reaching out to people who've never ridden one and have those negative preconceived notions about them. Anywaaaaayy, enough ranting - glad you had fun!
I've got the same problem. The heritage is cool man. 2nd one I've owned and I'm not tired of it yet.
There's just something about the older machines that makes me feel at home.
I’ve owned a ‘79 FLH, ‘88 Heritage, 883xl and now a ‘92 FatBoy that I bought new. I’m about over the vibration. Looking at your mirrors, your Evo Softail doesn’t seem to vibrate nearly as bad as mine does. Not only is the rear view a total blur, looking forward is a blur from my eyeballs vibrating at 65+mph. Love my 27 yr old FatBoy except for that. If the M8 is vibration free, I’m ready to trade up.
Saddle Tramp, the Low Rider S seems to be the Motorcycle to own for 2020. Personally I like the Heritage.
Love the M8! Glad you finally got to ride one.
Last week I bought a 1981 FXB, could have gotten a new M8 bike for the same money. I like the noise and vibes of the old bike. But apart from not being into the new bikes, they are so expensive. If you are a new bike rider youll probably get into the habit of getting a new one every 3 to 5 years (that seems to be the case here in Switzerland). The depriciation alone... the FXB will not depriciate anymore. If necessary, from the depreciation money saved over the years Ill be able to get a brand new S&S motor, Baker transmission etc etc for my FXB. I'd rather spend my money that way and keep the old girl going...
I love my '19 Road King. The M8 is an awesome engine.
1 thing with the new Harley's= Don't forget to take spare Batteries for "FOB" and remember your pin number lol, I love my 883. When your doing 70 it seems it wants to do more. from across the pond. Safe riding.
I absolutely love my evolution but I can't wait to add a 114 FatBob to my stable ☺
I like the raw, rumbling sportsters with evo engines. Simple, reliable and fun. The Lowrider S looks great though, kinda like a 70s Trans Am.
Worked in the H-D business for two years, right about the time the M8 came out. I was still a die hard evo guy at the time and had never even ridden a twinkie, much less an M8. I can say with complete confidence the M8 is one of the best engines they have ever had, right up there with the evo. They are really great bikes and that new softail frame is bad to the bone. The price is still way too steep.
The M8 with the single gear drive cam was a direction within a known reliable configuration . The 4 valve cylinder head design was also a known configuration for better breathing & overall engine performance enhancement . However the problem with proper crankcase ventilation & a lack of overall oil pump performance is a engineering mystery that is a industry embarrassment . I hear the need for for more performance for the new generation of cyclists but not at the sacrifice of reliability , please !
Good morning Tramp, from deepest darkest East Texas. I gotta say I enjoyed watching you ride the M8 bikes, your reactions to both were great! After shopping the internet for a year I found a 2019 FLHT with 2,000 miles on it that a big guy traded for a Honda because the Electra Glide was too small for him and his wife! I scooped the bike up for $13,500 and had it delivered on December 23rd. I gotta tell you men, I love this bike! Still gotta swap out the solo seat and install boards and a sissy bar for Mama so she can ride too but this thing is sweet! No oil migration problems or any problems for that matter and it is really something having cruise control. Hope to see ya this summer.
You know your "Old School" when
you can't figure out to start it! 😂👍
Lol
I appreciate the fact that you are willing to try the new bikes even knowing how you love the old bikes you ride. Good video honest review like watching this.
Good video. I have tried the new Harley as well and I think they are very good. For now I will stick with my oldies (pan shovel and ironhead) and my Ducati Diavel, but who knows, I'm only 66 so there's still time to change...
There are a lot of bells and whistles on the new bikes, that are kinda cool! But alot of new things to know, especially when you want to work on them!
Ride on Brother!
Thanks for the video!
fernominal - All ya need is a Scantool and you’re set. It’s still a 45 degree V-Twin.
That’s pretty cool that you thought of this go to exactly what I was wanted to do. Maybe I’ll go down and try to ride one of them new ones also. But I’m an evo guy now.Nothing beats that vibration in the sound I don’t need to go 1,000,000 miles an hour LOL well thanks for doing this I’m sure it’s enlightning a lot of us
Sure thing, man
That Lowrider S was stock btw. Insane bike.
You had me at Knuckle haha! Awesome video as always :) it's always interesting riding different stuff I've been a bit of a bike hopper over the years on the modern ones although those times have come to an end for me I've really settled into my Nortons that's for sure although I do still hop on my 2011 fireblade feels like being on the starship enterprise haha although I've got 100k+ miles on superbikes over the years crazy how fast we all get used to different bikes.Next bike for me is an evo electra glide or heritage :) an eventually I'd love a wla that's probably my dream bike right now once I sell some of my Japanese classics off those are gonna be what I'm looking at. Rambling a bit but I guess what I'm trying to say is we are in a golden age of motorcycles for those of us that love the older bikes the variety of what we can get is awesome an for those that like modern stuff like my dad an his gsxr 750 the m8 motors would probably be the bike to get him on a Harley.
Had my 2018 Sport Glide for a few months now and what a great bike . I think from a business point of view that Harley certainly hit the nail on the head, great handling with a really punchy engine, and if the old school guys throw a leg over one and give it half a chance you can still feel the Harley bloodline running through it.. Peace and all from the UK 😎
Wow, 90 mph. Harley guys sure go fast these days!
Always love the videos brother
I've been riding a 96 inch Twin Cam Electra Glide for some years now. It is cushy, and has all manner of doo-dads and gadgetry. I find myself thinking more and more about a simpler bike. A couple of older Dynas have sold out from under me and the Sportsters just don't seem to fit anymore. A friend's '97 Fat Bob is receiving some considerable ciphering nowadays.
Thanks for the video.... really enjoyed it. 👍
Nice one . Same as my view . New harleys are hellish bikes no doubt . I just prefer riding older ones .
Tastes vary, that's a given....but I can only say that the "old school" look of the new Heritage was the only ride in the new line-up that enticed me - versus all other new iterations of existing models (not going into any detail here) - Low rider S was always a "class apart" - having ridden a few dyna's and a Deuce in past I can see why folks are attracted to it...sure thing. As for "new" versus "old" technology - I made a remarkable 180 about a year ago when I finally gave into the idea of riding a fuel injected pony. So the new heritage became my new ride (the one with old looking rusty like color they refer to as denim something). Anyway, I am not trying to make a point here at all but it seems I went into the opposite direction regards to technology upgrades. I love diversity so great to have still a couple of of riding buddies in this neck of woods that stick to their EVO's . Keep safe and ride well.....
Was still ridin my 69 flh in 02 then an old harley rider let me ride his new twin cam! I had similar experience, zdded a Deuce, an in 08 a road glide, have ridden to Sturgis since then 13 times from Ca. 1400 mi one way! Still got 69 but its a trophy!
2020 FXLRS M8 114...I love it...Club Style 👍😎.
Man I ride an old Vulcan which is a copy of a soft tail. I test rode the 2019 Heritage Soft Tail at Bumpus Harley Davidson in Murfreesboro Tennessee. It was the 114 M8 and let me tell you it just ruined me. That is just a mad machine so much fun and just power that I couldn't get close to using. I want one so bad I can't stand it but as a poor working man with a paid off bike I just can't. At least not right now. I fully concur with your review.
Love it. Went up and seen a 2019 Street Glide CVO. OMG. Yah my Chopper is paid for. Dam there Sweet.
Cool opportunity! Every bike is fun in my book
That's great that you tried to get on the knucklehead they had on display, I would have done the same thing!
I am an old Sportster guy. I mean I am old {74} and you are right, you don't know what you don't know. Found out recently that I like windshields, and that forward controls are great. Hell, two months ago I got an 06 Road King and absolutely love it. Now I'm wondering if I've missed something by never dating a fat girl? Anyway love your videos and cheers from NE Alabama.
Great video, now you need test the new Indian Challenger
I’ve got a 94 Evo and an 05 twin cam. I’ll bet I could trade 2 for one. Maybe not. Good video Tramp.
Great video!.... Love all Harley's
Saddletramp, I think an M8 chopper would be SO cool wouldn't it be? Ditch the EFI and throw a carb on it. Pacho frame, laced wheels, stretched out springer front end. 👍
I for sure plan on taking that low rider s for a comparison ride to my Dyna Street Bob 110ci and see how much different the power and handling is!!
I’ve had old Harleys and I’ve had new. Before my massive stroke I had a brand new 2012 Deluxe. Put 18” apes true duals and all the rest. Just now gettin’ back in the saddle and bought a 2004 Heritage. Put 18” apes on it and love it! Miss the 6 speed though, lol
If I ever own one it will probably be when the next generation comes out
MoCo gotta survive. Made here is a good thing. I have had a bunch of different harleys. Softail frame design always made sense. Articulation at the frame. I did like the improvement that came to the bagger in 09. Today I ride what I built. Enough power to get me around the problem now. Cruises sweet. Manual cruise, no ABS. Having been there the shit is nice. I can only imagine the M8 is nice. 4 valves per cylinder. Its about time harley went for it. VRod was sad to see go.
I wonder what the big bore kit to the 114 is gonna be
Rode a new Road King back in 2014. Power was great. Just didn't feel Harley. Staying with my 96 RK.👍
Pull your upper end off your EVO. Put back on a 95 inch kit. You'll be amazed at the torque that you pick up over an 80 inch motor. You can do this for under a 1000 dollars.
If you want to pick up a bit more power. Bump it up to 10.5 compression. Then stick a set of Screamin Begal heads on it. The heads with bring it back down to around 9.5 to 9.7. Put in a cam that matches the rpm you run your bike at the most. Don't forget to pull the heads apart and Lap them in. You'll be amazed at the performance you pick up without affecting your reliability.
And not putting out 22,000 to 25,000 dollars for a new bike.
OR. If you are a RUB (Rich Urban Biker) go spend that 22 to 25,000 dollars. That new bike is going to look great in your garage. All you friends can come by. Drink a beer and compliment you on what a nice bike you have!
Then you can sell it in 3 to 5 years with 2500 to 3500 LOW MILES on it. It'll sell really fast. 😋
I hope Harley Davidson works on their price points so that Millennials will consider riding their bikes. I see some but not many of them in my local Stealership and mine is a GINORMOUS one.
I've got a 2020 Low Rider S and I FUCKING love it! It's a hell of a Harley!!! I've also got a 85 Iron!!!
Cool beans, man!!
Ride your ride no mater what it be.
I currently ride a 2008 dyna low rider and love it.
I waited 3 years for HD TO GET THE GREMLINS OUT OF THE M8 ,,and Just purchased My new 2019,Roadking ,,after tons of research,,,I'm Happy !,☆ Roadking 107 ,safe bike to run in high winds ,rain& ,bad roads ,,no problem!☆, I got the feeling of being able to travel Anywhere ,Anytime now !☆,,""Life is good TEEEEE"!!!☆☆☆☆
Anything above 20 degree's is top down weather here in the great lakes.
Love my 2017 Lowrider S, been holding off trying one of the new Lowriders. Like some off the changes they have made( would love the inverted forks and wheels on mine.)