HM, how do you feel about charging for a detailed estimate? I'm getting sick of people either not replying to my detailed estimates or hiring their son to do the work now that they know what's needed. Frankly, it's starting to piss me off and I'm thinking I will give them a one line price, and detailed price for a charge of $500. What are your thoughts on this?
Those full estimate breakdown types I have run across are the same ones that say "You're making $75 or $100 an hour and that's double what I get paid" I tell them they should have dropped out in 10 th grade and went into construction like me haha.
I just had this happen to me last week on a big estimate. The client has a designer that is giving many many suggestions for her vacation rental condo. We're floating walls flat, taking out deco bands, adding floating shelves and on and on. It's a bunch of really time consuming and hard to do tasks. I bid the job higher than normal because I know it will be a total pain in the a$$, upstairs unit with small stairs and parking is a nightmare. She came back with asking for an itemized bid. I thought about it for a couple days then responded by saying I can do that but I charge for my time to break it down which would be 4-6 hours. She came back with wanting an explanation for the floating of the drywall to a flat finish and approved my estimate. I don't break down my estimates so clients can delete items they may find too expensive or argue with me about costs. It has worked for me over the years and maybe every market is different. But if a client is asking me right away to itemize and trying to tell me what it will cost then I don't want that job anyway. my 2 cents
5 years ago i quit being a handyman and retired, i am now 70, i gained 100 pounds and can bearly move around. since i have been watching your show i have made up my mind to lose weight and get off my lazy ass and get back to work. your show has inspired me to get back in the game. i actually miss working as a handyman. please keep doing your show , it is very inspiring to people like myself. good job mr. handyman. you can never run out of reasons to pick up a tool.
HAHAHAHA I just went through this with a lady who works for a "construction company" she does data entry for a company that does off-shore wind turbines and somehow that qualified her to tell me how I should do my job. I do remodeling and I don't break down estimates. I give my price and detailed description of what they can expect for that price. She flipped and told me off. 2 weeks later she called me and let me know that she clicked accept on my estimate. I told her that the relationship has been soured and would rather not do any work for her.
Exactly! I've started telling people that want a "detailed" estimate, or ones that I can tell are tire kickers, I charge a non-refundable fee for quotes.
I walk away from those customers. Anyone who wants a detailed estimate is usually cheap af and a huge pita! I've done it once before and it took up a lot of my time and that customer didn't proceed with the project. I learned early on to walk away.... Thanks for another great video 👍
@@jeffshackleford3152 Oh yeah! I even had a buddy of mine who got burned enough on detailed estimates, that he finally listened to me. This is the price for me to do the job and this is the price for me to not do the job!!
Nearly all my business is word of mouth. Im currently in a neighborhood that before I can get done with a job the neighbor will come over and ask me to come look at their house when I get done. Im also lucky in the fact that I have several repeat customers that we are to the point they don’t ask a price anymore they just say tell me how much when you’re done. This biggest tip I got from you is this neighbor is mainly wealthy retired people and they just don’t want to be bothered with it. Take care of their problems and they pay very well so they can enjoy retirement. Thanks for all your advice and help.
Ive had some customers that get stressed out when you give them too many details. They just want to know the bottom line and when you can start. Then others want to nit pick and haggle every line item. It’s honestly been the most challenging part of the job for me.
@@nolanclark2253 you don’t typically know you have a knit picker until the very end when they ask you to present all your receipts or an invoice with things itemized (I usually refuse to do anything but show that the quantity used was accurate because I bake the time gathering material into the material price at the end and it’s just not worth explaining to people because they never get it)
Last summer I had a lady ask for a detailed invoice after the day was done. She knew the price beforehand, yet claimed she didn't. (She didn't sign a contract, mistake #1) Anyway, after learning how much I was making she told me that she had a crew of guys come in and drywall her bathroom for less than what I was charging ($400) to repair multiple small things that took about 7 hours out of my day. I was actually screwing myself over by only charging $400. Well long story short she decided to refuse to pay me full price and I had to eat it since we didn't have a contract. But nowadays I just attach pics of my receipts to the invoice and explain the overhead, especially taxes, in depth. AND ALWAYS HAVE A FREAKING CONTRACT
I generally give everyone a price range rather than a one number quote, and ask for their budget for the job they want done so that way we’re both working with realistic numbers. Always explain the range is due to the unknowns that you can’t see, and gives us both room to add materials if needed. My bracketing for prices has treated me nicely and a lot less stress not worrying about going over the one quoted price, plus allows for much better profit margins. Just making sure I’m honest and thorough up front usually saves me from having to give detailed quotes. If I get questioned once on pricing I usually won’t take the job because they will nickel and dime me until the end
Thanks for taking on this subject! I personally under promise and over deliver, it brings smiles to customers real easily. I also give 2 estimates, 1 if the job turns out easy and 1 if everything goes wrong and there’s lots more involved. If everything goes wrong at the very least the customer was pre-warned and it’s less stress on them and not a complete surprise.
Down side is (depending on the customer personality) he/she will take more to heart the lower price an will try to tell you the blame is yours , your the professional when something is wrong and you will have to compromise your profits
I'm a painting contractor. When I encounter a difficult customer that wants everything listed, I judge how the future of our interactions will be to decide if I want to take the time to itemize anything. If I determine the customer will try my patience every day I am on the job, I don't invest any more time with that person. If they just want to know labor vs a lump materials cost, I will do that. Usually I just give a single number for the total cost of the project.
I work alone for the most part. I haven’t had anyone in the three years I been in business ask me to do a cost breakdown. I’m in north central Florida. I change $76 per hour, $96 for the 1st hour and 30% markup on all materials. I don’t advertise. It’s all word of mouth. I do what I say I’m going to do and I show up when I say I’m going to show up. I’m honest and I have integrity. Work and think this way and you’ll be a success.
Yes, specially if they get to keep the rest for the next job or future job it’s money in their pockets. The customer can request to keep the left overs, or you can give them the option. The customer always looses the argument anyway because the handyman always has the right answer, disposal, I don’t have room to store it etc, you will never know what the real truth is.
When dumps were refusing all pressure treated lumber I started telling customer they have "heritage lumber" it belongs to the property now the next owners or your kids can use it some day.
I've only been self employed since last June. I'm from CT. I do all residential as a general contractor in home improvement. Most of my customers do not ask for a detailed estimate. All they care about is the final price. but when they do ask how much the labor cost is, I tell honestly tell them and the reasons why. In my area I have to charge $100-$150 an hour or i'm not making any money.
I work up my estimates line by line for my internal records in my database software, then provide a single line price detailing what the project entails to the customer. For my internal records I have every material, tax, delivery, material acquisition, design time, clean-up, milage, disposal fees, labor, etc for each step. I build in my profit by adding 15% to each of those lines. If the project is not all related, for instance, paint master bedroom, replace bathroom faucet, and new flooring in dining room, each of those 3 things will be a separate line. If there are unknowns, such as will I have to replace the drywall after removing paneling, will the subfloor under the toilet need to be replaced, I'll include the full cost of doing that in the estimate, then include a "contingency discount" line on the estimate that reduces the bottom line cost if those specific items do not need to be done.
I never give a breakdown on a bid. I'm not the best at bids and you give a lot of solid advice. The most I'm willing to break it down is to separate labor from materials. Anything other than that and you can take it or leave it....cuz every time I've ever broken my bid down they handed it to another contractor and asked them 'can you beat these numbers?' So I choose to not give them the info to low-ball me....because I've also had these same people call me later to try and come and fix the work of the other contractor they gave my bid to beat. He starts it, he can finish it.
I’m all word of mouth as well no apps. I used to break things down for customers. That led to nothing but pain in the butt customers. Prices for materials changed so much last year that I only quote labor now sometimes. And add materials at the end. If they ask for breakdown now I say $5,000 to do the job $0 to not do the job. Love your channel. Everything makes sense 👍🏼
I can see where this is coming from. I'm normally do most projects myself, but a couple years ago we were renovating our house to get it on the market after living in it for 15+ years. We were limited on time, and some of the work I just haven't done before. We hired a contractor to do some window replacements, and also a contractor to renovate the bathroom since we only had 1 and downtime wasn't an option if I did it myself. That being said, the contractor was horrible. Not only did he mislead me on the timeframe to get things completed by almost double, he went with the cheapest items he could, but charged 6X the amount he was getting them for and didn't install what was asked for and had to redo it. Example, the valves on the existing sink were seized and since we were putting in a new vanity, I wanted the valves changed out. It was written in their quote to have a plumber there to solder on new valves and specifically said no shark bite type fittings. Well, when they changed the vanity, there was no plumber, and the guy used shark bites. When I asked about it, they said a plumber wasn't in the scope and he didn't want to solder new fittings on. Luckily, I had that specific line item in writing and they fixed the issue, but there were several more instances where they took the absolute cheapest way out of things and cut corners that should not have been cut and wanted more money to do it they way I asked them to do things from the beginning. I can absolutely see why people would want a detailed bid with contractors like that out there.
I got burned by doing this. Sent their neighbor to get materials I wrote up for them. He screwed up the job and they couldn't figure out why I wouldn't help them out. I didn't explain...I just told them to figure it out themselves. Lesson learned.
The best practice I have found is to give 1 round number for the project. This has significantly reduced the amount of times I have had customers ask to break everything down. Part of this is also due to building an online presence. Building up your reviews so that customers know if they can trust you or not. Google my business is huge and needs to be leveraged. The only time I really break anything down is when insurance is involved and the customer needs these documents for their claim. Even then, I’m vanguarding and letting the customer know that insurance doesn’t like to pay what it takes to get the project done. These are good tips, but I would work on knowing your numbers and establishing trust through online reviews, then, you focus marketing to your target customer base and you eliminate a lot of these problems.
I have a landscape construction company and I always break down estimates by tasks, ie demo and prep, dumping fees, patio installation etc, With those line items I ahve a full description of what we are going to do. Never usually have a problem. If someone wants more detail than that, they are often not going to be very easy to work with. Regarding unknowns, the best thing you can do is to have well worded contracts with contingencies for unforeseen circumstances. Also just communicate with the customer that things may change depending on what we find. I find that good communication goes a long way. My problem I have is normally is that a lot of customers communicate very poorly with me or their spouse and sometimes things get misconstrued in the process. There's always something. Its not easy but someone's gotta do it. lol
I do a detailed estimate for myself and that’s what is used to give a quote to the customer but I don’t give them a line item breakdown. For items that they need to pick out I give an allowance cost in the estimate that I give them but that’s it. If they want a detailed invoice then I tell them it will be done as an hourly rate job and I’ll detail everything and it’s on their time.
It's $Xxxx to do the job and it's $0 not to do the job. My experience is that as soon as you start to break down things itemized, then that's when the tire kicking starts. And then they expect you to compromise on your price or they want to compare you to the other guy. Itemized estimates require extra time and that's not free. Better off weeding out those customers and moving on to the next
can tell them you'll charge them for a break down as that's extra time and effort, or charge them a flat rate for the break down like $100, you can say it'll go towards the deposit but it's not refundable.
@@MV-wb2cz yeah I've heard of people doing this. I'm fortunate that it's a rare case that people request this and honestly those people are the ones that are just looking for a way to knock me down in price. And it's just not worth the trouble
I grew up surrounded by people who lived through "The Great Depression". Their sense of value was always pretty far off, the most common one I'd hear would be at a restaurant; "They want 25 cents for a piece of cheese", I had a great conversation with my Mother in Law right after she said that. "You aren't buying a piece of cheese, how much electricity does it take to refrigerate that piece of cheese?", ever cut yourself in the kitchen, that happens at every restaurant. You need insurance, you need a first aid kit, you need someone onsite that understands labor laws (if you have employees). You have to pay the extended costs of any business. If you roll to a job in a nicely branded shirt and hat, those cost money. Gotta maintain tools and vehicles. Nothing is free.
Mr. Handyman, I love this video and have been awaiting it with anticipation. Thank you very much. I sincerely appreciate your approach and will take it to heart. Also love the discussion you provoked and to learn how others in the business are dealing with "crazy" customers and how they handle them.
I worked at a restoration company for 20 years as a production manager and part of my job was to review estimates that salesman had prepared. When the estimate was for insurance companies, we used Xactimate software which have everything listed by line item. The number for us was a hard number and nonnegotiable and if they wanted to get it done cheaper, we would need to remove part of the work from the estimate.
I usually explain my price if someone asks nicely just like you've done. If they don't like the profit or wage I'm going to make. I usually won't bother explaining my overhead costs or the fact that they are paying for experience ect. Chances are that isn't my customer and I move on.
In the past four weeks I have spent many hours preparing highly detailed estimates and every single one of them decided to go elsewhere. That's their prerogative of course, but I've decided to stop giving them a detailed breakout of the costs. Yes, they can see the bottom line, but I'm not doing all this work for them for free anymore!!
That's all it really is. You're finding them the prices of everything, and pricing your labor. They're gonna get the same from another, and whoever ends up cheaper is the one they chose.
I also usually give a price. For example, it’s $5000 to do the job, $0 to not do it. My estimates are usually free, but if you want an itemized estimate, there will be a charge for my time for that, and most people agree and understand
I actually put a watermark on my initial estimate (using Wondershare) so at least there may be some shame if they want to show it to another contractor to beat.
I once had a guy tell that he knew a guy who would do the same work for literally half of what I bid. I told him good luck, and told him to keep my card in case he needed it. A few weeks later he called me to come and fix what his friend had done. I wound up making more on that job than I original estimated. As to detailed pricing, I do that on every job I do that is over $500, and I detail every nail and screw. I usually don't show that to the customer. I do that to protect myself. I can give it to the customer if they want it, but very seldom do I have to, and even then, when they see 150 or more line items and the tally, they usually skim it and never look at it again. By the way, once you do a couple of those, you have a template and it becomes easy and fairly quick to do.
I have owned a single guy custom cabinet shop for over 20 years and totally agree with all the points made. In my experience be very careful with breaking a job down to that level. It gives the wrong type of client the tools to gut your quotation of any profit and leave you with endless re-quotes removing more and more profit and more paperwork. Be especially careful if like myself you are supplying trade only materials not available to the general public as this will come back to haunt you in the future when it's word of mouth work. Personally I always supply a full written fixed price quotation with a specification of works but never a cost breakdown.
By trade only materials what are you referring to? I'm looking to start a similar business but the supply side is what I'm having trouble with understanding. Is there a special place where you get your wood, glue, etc?
I have several repeat customers that don't ask for an estimate, they just want me to do the work and bill them... Those are the best customers to have. Other customers want an estimates. I give line items for each job I'll perform like "replace exhaust fan & add new duct for exhaust to outside: $600.00 ". I have a supplies section on my estimate to describe the materials I'll be using to let them know why its so expensive like stainless steel 3" deck screws, Azek siding trim, or Grey Sherwin Williams interior satin paint. That way if they want to take something off the list its already clear how much that will reduce the cost. and if they want to change materials its clear that it will adjust the materials cost. Then I have a total labor cost & a total supplies cost and a grand total. I make sure to add terms such as full Materials cost due before work begins if its a large project, & full payment due at completion of work.
Also for extremely common stuff like screws, if you can estimate how many you will use, you can buy the industrial pack or multiple industrial packs, and then sell them bit by bit. I do this with various cabinet related screws and nails. Customer has to buy a minimum of 1 box, whatever that amounts to. Then after 10 or 20 projects, you can buy the industrial packs with the greatest price break and sell them box by box. For example, my supplier will sell 10 boxes 1 1/2 16 GA nails for 8.97. HD sells them for 18ish, so after you do a couple small bathroom remodels ( I am strictly trim/ cabinets), you can pay for all 10 boxes, and still have 8 left. I use line item estimates like that internally, that way I can break out my money into different piles to pay for screws, nails etc.
A coworker of mine was having a house built. The builder gave her a detailed list of items like how much a light will cost, faucet price and install cost. She was on the phone at work arguing with the poor guy on why he was charging x for something when she found it cheaper at x place. 😂 Na, I am good. No thanks, I’ll move on to the next job.
Yup! They see a door slab at Home Depot for $30 and wonder why my estimate averages $150/door installed. It's because the door with custom bore/hinge prep. from a door co. costs way more. (I could do it myself, but would cost even more)
Exactly, they expect you to charge the same price as lowes... it's like I have to go.buy this light fixture from lowes for $30 and then also install it for the same price I bought It for? People don't think things through.
I know how many days a job will take me. I charge so much a day for my labor. My day starts when I pull up to the store about 6/7am. I never mark up materials but I have leftovers in my shop from other jobs. I never charge a customer more than estimated but do charge less sometimes. I never ever give detailed estimates except time of start estimated time to complete, 50% money upfront, when the balance is due etc. I've never had a problem usually always finish early and I never hire help. I'd never waste my time doing detailed estimates of materials. Its just not necessary...too many other customers who need help. My customers have always been happy. I feel so blessed to be a business owner, keeping my own time and making people happy. Its a good life.
Estimator for custom home builder in the Southeast projects ranging from 800k-5M - if I am given a preliminary set of plans I go through and use all of my historic data for some of the material estimates in the interest of time. I have been able to get within 5% of the true cost of the project about 90% of the time doing this. If I am asked for a full itemized estimate at the preliminary stage there are 2 things that I say: 1- I say "why do you need my full priceout at this phase of the project when the plans aren't developed? I don't give out this information so you can pass along to someone else as this estimate and it's templated information is proprietary to my company" or 2- "if you are willing to pay 1% of this estimate as a part of a construction agreement, I will be happy to share all of the information you request as the plans are developed further and will assist in finding cost saving alternatives if that is what you are looking for"
With any job I am bidding on, I ALWAYS discuss unforseen hidden damages. I tell them that I can't see it now, so I'm not charging for it now; BUT if there is something found that must be replaced/fixed while doing the original scope of work, I will let them know right away. I back this up with the worst case scenario - replacing a huge picture window in a living room, after getting the old window out, found termite damage in the framing. Showed her told her that we had to keep removing until we found solid wood. We ended up literally taking down the entire wall on the front of her home! Drywall, electrical, framing, siding, oh and the window.
I refuse line items like this. When I was starting I might have done it, but I'm not quoting you the cost of each little thing. Customers like this are almost always a nightmare to deal with. I also don't work with customers who want to nickle and dime everything or claim "I can get it cheaper elsewhere", these are more red flags.
Aint nobody got time for a line by line unless it's a big job, otherwise not worth the time. This is the price, if you want the work great, if not there's plenty of people who can't even find someone decent to work right now
I usually have rough item pricing for things. $10/little items. $20/medium items. $35/odd items. $50/bigger items. This includes my markup and travel time for the pieces in-between and allows me to count it out really fast. If anyone asks for a break down I give them that explanation and let em count them out themselves.
As soon as they ask for a full break out, that is no longer an estimate that is the bill. I got into an argument over cut off wood scraps and left over screws. "I paid for an eight foot 2x4, I get a eight foot 2x4, not a seven foot. . ." and "I paid for a pound of screws, I get a pound of screws." It's not like some custom mixed paint that's useless to everyone else. Collecting up the extras is what makes it possible to cut corners on odd jobs. I've run into other problems and I now have a line on my invoices: "Until paid in full, all materials remain the property of the contracted worker(s) whether consumed in the commission of the job or not. So long as the bill is unpaid, the contractor may enter the premises to nullify their labor and/or remove their property. After the client has paid the agreed upon final bill, and the contractor confirms it, the materials consumed in the commission of the job become the property of the client. Any remaining materials are the property of the contractor to use or dispose of as they choose." Haven't had any problems or unpaid jobs since.
I get the curve ball here. Where I live in the SFO bay area, there is a huge diversity of cultures and each one of them is different when it comes to home repair cost. So I have to strategize my estimates depending. Some give the persona to me as being a simple man, a laborer so they don't want to pay. Although I hold three college degrees! I have to inform them of this. Some cultures insist to remove shoes and wear masks before entering. I have to walk around in my socks when working these jobs. I may have to start refusing these jobs. I can't climb ladders in socks! Oh the stories I have to tell. Luckily I am working for a few property managers now and it's much better. Although I still have to remove my shoes with some tenants!
Just recently had a potential client do this. We went and looked at 4 properties (didn’t charge her), she and the realtor picked my brain, we chose one and made an extensive list of improvements. Then she countered back wanting to take items out and get an itemized before she decided on the property. If she wants to pay for my time to write out how many pieces of sheet rock, tape, hours, etc. happy to but this “free estimation” shit is getting old and the number I’m giving for free is the number you get unless you pay for more detail.
I do estimates based on price of the job. Under $500.00 I do a virtual estimate and say "we'll estimate it when we get there before we start." $500 to $15,000 I show up and spend an hour on site and deliver a free estimate. Over $15,000 I bill my base hourly rate for every hour of review/design/permitting etc. That's my default for residential and light commercial clients.
What I do it to tell the client they have to pay for the estimate and if they take the job the estimate get credited to them Bec cause I would have had to do the breakdown anyway, a lot of my work is time and materials - the competitive bidding process burns up a lot of time - small 2-3 day job are the best for me
One problem I find after having done this for 6 years for a living is that, even in a fairly affluent area, when you advertise as a "handyman' people are expecting a bargain. You generally don't get the respect of a general contractor or electrician or plumber. They are looking for a deal and if you charge what your time is worth, many (or even the majority) will bail. And then of course the irony is that they are more likely to complain about the work. They equate you to some guy walking around mindlessly waving a blower. I've walked on quite a few jobs where the customer was being unreasonable. I might be out a day's pay but now it's on them to find someone who will do it as well as cheaply. No hard feelings I simply say "Good luck!"
BOOKKEEPING is KEY. The estimate turns into the budget, turns into the invoice, then payment - and this all goes into the books together. Estimates can be created with apps that plug into bookkeeping software. Until I started using BK software it was a huge pain for me anytime a customer wanted a detailed invoice or even a basic receipt. Tax time and loans were a PITA early on and I'm sure a lot of people here have had the same experience. Love the videos.
Some people can be difficult and understandably so nowadays. Been coming across more and more people who want everything but do not want to pay for it. Had a lady recently tell me she needed an estimate for a deckbuild. I provided one and she then asked how much I charge per hour. The back and forth really makes me think it is not worth pursuing. Tired of people who do not value my time, I would never waste it, nor theirs ever. After saying my estimate was too high and realizing my per hour was more than she thought she asked me to give her the original estimated price. I explained to her that I had taken on other work.
Spread sheet for yourself line itemized out materials labor markups etc Cust gets workorder with all work detailed out and one price at bottom The spreadsheets works as a task list for you and it should be same as workorder without prices nor materials
Exactly....ultimately all they care bout is the bottom line and the quality of work you do when comparing to others. Giving too much information leads to nit picking at the small pricing details.
My SOP is giving my customer the excel spreadsheet (line item) with my estimate. It includes material, my estimate of man hours needed (TIP- double how long u think it's going to take). Totaled up then P&O on top of that with a grand total. The customers that enjoy getting that are the customers that you want.
I usually skip jobs like that. Just not worth the effort and the customer is usually harder to work with if they want a quote like that. What do you think?
In the auto repair business, software is available to provide line item material and labor as well as shop expense for cleaners and disposal of waste. The software has connection with suppliers, providing costs as well as ordering capabilities.
If I'm having to do a line item estimate then I didn't do a good job building rapport and building trust. If a customer is a type that they want line items so they can argue, question, and try to negotiate each item they won't like the line I add "difficult customer fee"
I do tile & grout ccleaning, sealing and minor repairs including showers. Not too many unknown variables at this point (10 years) and I just give one price per component. In the description I give enough detail to justify the cost. Many people have no idea what it takes to actually get something done. I can't tell you how many times someone has baulked at the price to replace a broken tile. They think you just 'pop it out' and stick down a replacement... It's a fantastic place to get to the point when the phone rings with zero dollars spent on marketing. Higher end customers are the best. Just this week I was told "I trusted you from the minute I met you, do whatever you think we need done and add it to the bill."
You can group items together .... like .... "Materials" (list the materials) and add 25%(wiggle room) to what you estimate it'll actually cost. "Labour" through in "sourcing materials" and add %25 (wiggle room) to what you want to be making in case something unexpected comes up. I don't mind throwing all the key words in an estimate and make it clear to the customer that unexpected problems may come up and it WILL cost more. how do you have such a nice head of hair handyman?
I've dealt with this with a specific investor(I mostly work for investors in my area). I break everything out and then add in a Documentation fee/Doc Fee just like a car dealership. The way I justified it to them because they absolutely said it was malarkey was that my standard estimates included a labor cost and description, and a materials cost and description. Neither broken out. If they wished for me to break down individual materials after the fact(meaning creating a second estimate practically speaking) that time would be billed regardless of the acceptance of the estimate. Where I'm at I have a minimum billable charge of $100 (I use this at my discretion however it is posted on my invoices.) . So that's what they'd get billed.
I don’t take those customers. I live in a very upscale suburb and find if someone is a pain about little things they’re going to be nickel and dime-ing me on everything. I started my handyman business a year ago in large part due to your channel. I have more work than i can handle. Partly because i only work 3 days a week. I take bigger jobs with my brother to help me. Hard work but this has been one of the best things I’ve done in my life.
Love the emphasis on customer service and and how it seems to be a rare commodity these days. It plays a much larger roll in my decision making process when it comes to hiring someone than it has in the past.
What I’ve been doing now with fairly good success is telling customers I will give them a ballpark budget within 10% of the job and I’ll add in a few of the details outside on a standard project as well. It’s been cutting down my time working on bids for people who aren’t serious or had not expected the “high” price. Then a guarantee my price won’t change when I do the full breakdown budget after. And for “unknown” items, I add a contingency to the invoice saying “in these scenarios we often see underlying issues such as…. so budget an additional 10% of the over all total to cover unforeseen issues. We will show and discuss the issues once they are discovered” Disclaimer, I prepare the customer in the initial meeting that this is exactly how I handle things so it’s never been an issue.
I itemize, but keep it fairly vague. Materials, labor, O&P for GC jobs etc. Try to get more granular if it's being seen by an insurance company - I've had a few of those in the last couple of years. It totally depends on the job how I group things together, whether it's a new or established customer, small or larger job - with certain established clientele it could be just a guess and a handshake. Sometimes the "baseboards" line item will be described as material, install and finish and others I have all trim materials as a line item and all painting as another and so on. Try to keep it as broad as possible while breaking down a potentially five figure number somewhat to make it digestible. I saw a line item for "contents manipulation" in a competing bid once for a large company so now I always use that one. I like to incentivize people to move their shit out of the way and if I have to do it I know I'm at least making money.
I'm a young handyman. Worked in NYC for 3 years and now I'm down in Florida. What seems to work best for me is to have an hourly rate and charge for materials/pickup/etc. I understand that doesn't always work for bigger jobs but I've found that most of the time I'm far, FAR under what specialized contractors charge--which helps with any guilt. If you do go the hourly rate, definitely charge what you need and not what you think is appropriate because you don't want to lose jobs. I've never lost a job because of my hourly rate, but I have for flat estimates.
2019 changed things for me because I couldn't track the material increases. I went to 75$ hr including some drive time to offset gas. Often the customer opens their own lumber yard account that I can charge to. It's nice to not handle money that's not for me. I tell them light heartedly but serious you pay the bill on Friday, I come back on Monday. Our work has to speak for itself and quickly build confidence.
Worked with my father for 10 years in HVAC. If they asked for a detailed break down we told them they needed someone else. Never, ever advertised our business and never had a slow day. Word of mouth purely. Train your customers, payment is due upon completion not 30 days later, and we kept track of who referred someone on to us in case they didn't pay we would go back and say, "hey, why did person xyz you referred on to us not pay?" 10 years, only one person didn't pay, and it was such a small bill it wasn't worth the time in small claims court. But if you want to waste time doing a line item estimate, go for it, your choice and your time. Still doesnt mean you get the job though.
I'm in NE TN. Last summer we got a call about a tree that had fallen on a house. Insurance company wanted to see an itemized list for repairs! Pain in the butt, but in the end I got paid for the headache.
It's can be difficult to explain this to a new independent contractor. I always tell them to give a fair quote, and move on. The customer will call you when they can't find anyone that can do better work for lower cost. Don't adjust your standards just to get one fussy customer.
This. Learned myself the hard way when I started... trying to get jobs I bent over backwards and regardless of that they were still demanding to the very end. It was too much stress. The more leash you give the harder they pull. If they don't like the bid, smile, say OK! and move on.
I've seen customers demand their extra screws because they say they purchased them . Some customers are a pain. But it's all about you charging what you're worth and them deciding if they want to be cheap or fair Last year I quoted a job for a business and they didn't want to pay me $2,000 for 8 hours with $800 in materials ( I would have profited $1200) So they hired a plumbing company that used the same supplier and charged them $3000 in labor because it was $1500 for 2 guys each plus the $800 materials from the same guy I used. So their total became $3800 They wanted a estimate from me but didn't require one from them
All depends on the job. And the customer really. My top 3 customers get one price and pay me back for materials or I charge upfront for all materials. Depends on the size of the job also. -One service, one price -Multiple services, Multiple prices -Multiple services (steps) within one task, (mold remediation, Bath remodel), One price. Any materials over $200 must be paid upfront with the deposit. For estimates where customers hasnt decided what faucet they want or which storm door they wany. I simply put an allowance, anything over must be reimbursed to the me. Ex. Storm door. $250 labor and $250 allowance. Total $500 if the door she chooses is over $250 she will owe the difference. Vice versa
I don’t have a “how to” on itemization. In general, I do not price per item. I give a preliminary, which includes our project’s main features as a list, then give them a “turn-key” cost. If they want an itemized bid, I will do that only when they’ve expressed that they are good to go. I’ll show up with an itemized contract and leave it with them when the money is in my hand. I don’t make exceptions anymore. But this won’t work for everyone at all times. Sometimes a contractor does things for new clients (especially whales) that they wouldn’t normally do. That’s the way it goes. But, as a rule, I give them no work, other than a consultation, without money.
That was a very honest video. I totally agree with what you said. I once had a client who wanted to add a penalty to the job if I didn't get it done in time. I told her I would do that if she gave me a bonus if I got it done before the deadline. Needless to say she didn't do that. But she did want the whole job line itemized. I charge $250 on the line item to cover my cost
If they select the lumber you may be OK with the correct business. Many 2x4 could be great to make hockey sticks. Another variant is wonderful for canoe gunnels. Only about 50 percent are good for studs or other construction requiring something approaching straight and not twisted.
I Fire Difficult Clients. And of course I can do this because of WOMouth. MOST of the time I give all of my clients a estimate/guestimate to the range of labor costs and materials. If I don't do this then most of the time I get burned and I will most likely lose that client. Now for the ones that want an detailed estimate, I am happy to do that. More often than not I end up charging them more than folks I charge by the hour.
I don’t line item things, when you do that not only do you need to charge more for the additional time it took to do that but guaranteed you’ll end up answering and explaining a hundred questions about each line item as well as customers wanting to keep boxes of screws and such because “they paid for it” I go over the project with potential clients, give them my input and ideas, cone to a consensus on what the bid will entail and then I give them a price that includes all my labor and materials with my markups for profit and overhead costs etc. I tell them when I can start and when I will finish, and thats it. If they want to know how reasonable my price is they can get bids from other contractors and then see where I land and either accept my bid or don’t accept my bid. I work on a first come first serve basis and I only book people in my schedule after I get a signed contract and down payment. Been at it 7 years working for myself now and have never been without work.
I don't really do remodels or anything like that. They just end up being a quagmire and it's faster going from little job to little job. Cash daily vs cash later is nice too.
I much prefer remodels over quick little jobs. I end up losing money on quick little jobs because I'm not good at scheduling them such that I work enough. I like a nice 4-6 week gig. That's my sweet spot. Steady work. Get paid. take a few days off while transitioning into the next job. I need to get better at doing those quick jobs though. It's all about "me" calling costomers and scheduling. I have trouble with that. Can't really tell someone I can be at their house a week from today at a certain time. Inevitably something comes up I didn't anticipate and I end up on a job a day longer or whatever.
@blackdog productions Yeah I typically try and keep the schedule full for a week or 2 weeks out. I'm not a good "builder" as much as I am a great "fixer". It allows me to run solo with no worries about meeting deadlines. I owned an ISP before this and had 15 employees. All I learned is how evil people really are and thus being a solo handyman makes me happy. Especially when people say "you're the man" after fixing something for them. It brightens my day a lot.
@@MichaelJohnson- solo is the best, i've been with the same customer for almost 2 years of every day work if I wanted, apartment after apartment finishing, they buy a new place, gut it, then i come in and finish it, move onto the next one. Only issue I have currently is being able to make more money because they expect me to charge a similar price for each one and i started as $ and now i'm opening a legit business so i dunno what i'm going to do in the near future lol.
@M V You should at least try and explain why you will need to charge more going forward (inflation is a real thing). People pay for trust more than skill in those types of environments tbh.
I live in a small town, and most of my work is for repeat customers or word-of-mouth referrals. More often than not they don't even ask what it will cost, they tell me what they want, and when the job's done they ask what it cost. I'm not sure I would even want to work for someone who wanted everything itemized, since I really don't have to. One of the benefits of being a small business in a small town.
Aw naw….! I worked for a ‘Handyman company’ in which we had to give breakdown estimates. I quoted a job with customer supplied paint. My quote was like $900 labor plus $20 materials. Customer asked what materials. I said, roller covers and brushes etc. Customer lost his shit- ‘You don’t have brushes?’ and i didn’t get the job. Last time I broke down the estimate like that.
Good points! I find with the higher priced projects the customer would want at least a simplified breakdown materials, labor, etc. itemized estimates certainly require high levels of customer service due to expected questioning by the customer on items.
My estimate template is built around a material worksheet which includes 30% fee for taxes and material handling, and a labor worksheet that calculates hours, benefits, and labor burden (work comp, taxes, etc). Those sheets feed into a sheet that then applies Overhead, Contingency, and Margin. Those costs then get distributed 50/50 into a client price as line items for Labor and for Materials. My final estimate breaks out those two line items. I find most clients are satisfied with that. For the ones who want more detail I will provide an "Assembly" cost breakout - that can be by room, or by overall "task." So if they hire us to do a new electrical service and a car charger I'll break out the Service Material and Labor and the Car Charger Material and labor. I don't generally give more granularity than that for the residential or light commercial client.
I lost a bid for a basement remodel. I was supposed to pick up where the last guy left off. I gave me my price and he said it was to much! Then said he would only think about it if it was half of what I quoted. I lost the job, but I gained knowledge. Cheap people don’t want to pay
I've learned not to bid on jobs started by someone else -- it's a potential sign that the client is hard to deal with and the last guy walked... or it was the client that started and realized it was too much for them and they want you to clean up their mess (while they look over your shoulder the whole job.)
Don't forget administrative costs like getting yourself license bonded insured if you are such and the time for preparing the quote and line item breakdown as well. Those are all costs associated with the business so they should be accounted for.
I charge for quotes. If they want more details- they pay more. The more detailed, the more expensive. I rarely am asked for more than category totals using this method. Most people that want itemized are cheap and want to compare my item prices with others. If they've already paid me to quote, they likely aren't going to price shop me and sink the cost of estimating.
I did a bathroom remodel and re-pipe last year and I asked for the details so It was specified that I wanted all ball valves. I also appreciated the plumber left the extra PEX in my crawl space.
Not related to handyman type activities. Had a customer with phone and video conferencing problems. Vague in their description of how the issue manifests. That's ok, there are a ton of diagnostics that I can do and some of them take a bit of time. So I capture the data, do the research, come up with a playbook of configs. Then we spend two hours on the phone applying, validating, and then we wait for a big 120 person video meeting and it all works. Now mind you that this has been going on for about 6 months, multiple prior techs, and I solve it. They get the bill and are pissed off that there is more than the two hours that I spent on the phone with them. I calmly replied that this has been a lingering problem, that others failed to fix, and that not all billable time is spent client facing.
I don't do breakdowns, it's like being asked to show my payslips, rude! Imagine asking the client to reveal their last three months earnings because you want to know they're able to settle up after the job? I get that some people just want to make sure they're not being ripped, but I'm just not wasting my time breaking down costs and revealing my earnings, that's my private affairs.
I have always itemized estimates for customers because it helps me not forget anything (I have 60-80 line items set up in QB) but sometimes I end up spending 4-6 hours on a house remodel or addition estimate just for them to take it and then possibly use as a template for another contractor to underbid me if they share this estimate with the competition. It's disheartening and has made me either choose wisely as to how I present an estimate, or simply only give them the total bottom line number and explain I will itemize their invoices for them. Alternatively, I have considered charging for an estimate but in today's economic climate, that is not easy to do. It seems that everyone around here is a self proclaimed handyman now. And with a recession coming, that does make things more competitive. The problem is potential customers will price shop, not quality shop.
Good topic Handy. Only did a detailed estimate once for a friend on a bath remodel. Basically gave them allowances for materials and my cost to do the job. Worked out great for me and they were happy!
I learned through out my experiences that you have to prepare a customer with a (discovery)fee, as what I learned to call it…lol which is usually $200-$300 extra (Labor) fee added in case the job requires extra work to complete “Bid” agreement.
I don't break down costs unless it's for repeat customers. I know I have the work and we are working on budgeting. I was told in my 20's working for a paving/sealing company to not break down prices. The customer will break apart everything not knowing anything about the installation methods or product durability compared to competitors. Our general manager would call most if not all potential customers to discuss our proposal compared to the other proposals they received. She wanted to make sure they were comparing apples to apples and not apples to oranges. This led to conservation about how we may be more expensive but a longer lasting quality job that could prevent premature failures.
Great info. If they want to know what they're paying for you to do the job, I see no harm in presenting that. If they don't want to pay what you're worth then you don't want that customer. Sometimes you have to fire customers.
When I was an HVAC tech, I would write out the estimate for repairs after diagnosing the problem. I presented the client with all charges, even if I had to go into overhead and all of that. I wasn't the owner so the pricing wasn't set by me. Now that I'm doing my own thing, I take the same approach and give as much information as possible. I'm not trying to hide anything. I haven't had any problems yet.
@@zodiacdogkennels1006 as far as replacements, I include that in the profit margin. I stay up to date on pricing and keep it to between two brands, a good and than a better one. I can get pricing done in about 10mins.
I have recently started charging for certain estimates and of course if they contract with me then the estimate charge is credited towards the job but if they don’t I keep it for the time I spend traveling to and from the potential job site and the 45-an hour plus I usually spend going over the live in person sales explanation. I’ve yet to have a customer say no to the estimate fee once I break down the fact that an estimate could take 3 hours of travel time and an hour of actual estimate prep and writing.
As a tattoo artist, we don't break down our supplies cost. For me, it's just the hourly rate and I'm doing usually really big stuff that will take multiple sessions, so I don't even try to estimate the time. It costs what it costs, you want it?
I give pretty detailed invoices. Probably more in depth than is typical. I do not give detailed quoates. I'll do an estimate but I preface this with the fact that this price is an estimate. Not a quote. I just did one of these for a tile tub surround. I nailed it. I dislike having a figure out there though because it puts me under pressure to get things done which isn't the best for my mental state. I will be adding a lot of padding in the future to estimates. Think I'll take it as an opportunity to up my prices.
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HM, how do you feel about charging for a detailed estimate? I'm getting sick of people either not replying to my detailed estimates or hiring their son to do the work now that they know what's needed. Frankly, it's starting to piss me off and I'm thinking I will give them a one line price, and detailed price for a charge of $500. What are your thoughts on this?
Those full estimate breakdown types I have run across are the same ones that say "You're making $75 or $100 an hour and that's double what I get paid" I tell them they should have dropped out in 10 th grade and went into construction like me haha.
That's pretty good! I love it.
Great response 😂
Lol Great advice, I'm using that!
And they don't realize they're hiring a business not a day laborer.
@@motherfudger6664 Spot on! I will keep this in mind when someone challenges my pricing and tries to break even my fixed price jobs into hourly rates.
I just had this happen to me last week on a big estimate. The client has a designer that is giving many many suggestions for her vacation rental condo. We're floating walls flat, taking out deco bands, adding floating shelves and on and on. It's a bunch of really time consuming and hard to do tasks. I bid the job higher than normal because I know it will be a total pain in the a$$, upstairs unit with small stairs and parking is a nightmare. She came back with asking for an itemized bid. I thought about it for a couple days then responded by saying I can do that but I charge for my time to break it down which would be 4-6 hours. She came back with wanting an explanation for the floating of the drywall to a flat finish and approved my estimate. I don't break down my estimates so clients can delete items they may find too expensive or argue with me about costs. It has worked for me over the years and maybe every market is different. But if a client is asking me right away to itemize and trying to tell me what it will cost then I don't want that job anyway. my 2 cents
5 years ago i quit being a handyman and retired, i am now 70, i gained 100 pounds and can bearly move around. since i have been watching your show i have made up my mind to lose weight and get off my lazy ass and get back to work. your show has inspired me to get back in the game. i actually miss working as a handyman. please keep doing your show , it is very inspiring to people like myself.
good job mr. handyman. you can never run out of reasons to pick up a tool.
Thanks or taking the time to comment. It means a lot hearing form guy that watch my videos.
Good for you !! I “retired “, hated it ! 74 years old, still working and enjoying it !!
It $5000 to do the job, it’s $0 to not do the job. There’s my estimate.
why did you retire in the first place?
HAHAHAHA I just went through this with a lady who works for a "construction company" she does data entry for a company that does off-shore wind turbines and somehow that qualified her to tell me how I should do my job. I do remodeling and I don't break down estimates. I give my price and detailed description of what they can expect for that price. She flipped and told me off. 2 weeks later she called me and let me know that she clicked accept on my estimate. I told her that the relationship has been soured and would rather not do any work for her.
Good for you keep that clark name strong I always wonder every time if I see the name Clark if they're family
Exactly! I've started telling people that want a "detailed" estimate, or ones that I can tell are tire kickers, I charge a non-refundable fee for quotes.
Good, I wouldn't entertain that person either.
That's how you do it brotha!
I fired two customers last year for this.
I walk away from those customers. Anyone who wants a detailed estimate is usually cheap af and a huge pita! I've done it once before and it took up a lot of my time and that customer didn't proceed with the project. I learned early on to walk away.... Thanks for another great video 👍
Yep, they are always the ones to be a headache
If they buy the material it's always missing something....or wrong stuff
More than likely when a customer asks for a detailed estimate, they are going to shop your prices and you did all the " leg work " for them.
Since no one provids detailed quotes anymore I just get 150 quotes now instead keep that in mind :)
@@jrizzle7926 I hadn't thought of this.
I use detailed estimates internally, but give one price with scope, exclusions, change orders etc.
@@jeffshackleford3152 Oh yeah! I even had a buddy of mine who got burned enough on detailed estimates, that he finally listened to me. This is the price for me to do the job and this is the price for me to not do the job!!
Nearly all my business is word of mouth. Im currently in a neighborhood that before I can get done with a job the neighbor will come over and ask me to come look at their house when I get done. Im also lucky in the fact that I have several repeat customers that we are to the point they don’t ask a price anymore they just say tell me how much when you’re done. This biggest tip I got from you is this neighbor is mainly wealthy retired people and they just don’t want to be bothered with it. Take care of their problems and they pay very well so they can enjoy retirement. Thanks for all your advice and help.
Ive had some customers that get stressed out when you give them too many details. They just want to know the bottom line and when you can start. Then others want to nit pick and haggle every line item. It’s honestly been the most challenging part of the job for me.
This ☝️
isn't it easier to just drop or refer the nit pickers to other contractors and deal with the bottom liners?
Or why not have them pay for a detailed estimate upfront?
@@nolanclark2253 you don’t typically know you have a knit picker until the very end when they ask you to present all your receipts or an invoice with things itemized (I usually refuse to do anything but show that the quantity used was accurate because I bake the time gathering material into the material price at the end and it’s just not worth explaining to people because they never get it)
I agree brother. Many don't want to be overloaded but details are paramount so some jobs should be detailed..... others may be less and be ok
Last summer I had a lady ask for a detailed invoice after the day was done. She knew the price beforehand, yet claimed she didn't. (She didn't sign a contract, mistake #1) Anyway, after learning how much I was making she told me that she had a crew of guys come in and drywall her bathroom for less than what I was charging ($400) to repair multiple small things that took about 7 hours out of my day. I was actually screwing myself over by only charging $400. Well long story short she decided to refuse to pay me full price and I had to eat it since we didn't have a contract. But nowadays I just attach pics of my receipts to the invoice and explain the overhead, especially taxes, in depth. AND ALWAYS HAVE A FREAKING CONTRACT
I generally give everyone a price range rather than a one number quote, and ask for their budget for the job they want done so that way we’re both working with realistic numbers. Always explain the range is due to the unknowns that you can’t see, and gives us both room to add materials if needed. My bracketing for prices has treated me nicely and a lot less stress not worrying about going over the one quoted price, plus allows for much better profit margins. Just making sure I’m honest and thorough up front usually saves me from having to give detailed quotes. If I get questioned once on pricing I usually won’t take the job because they will nickel and dime me until the end
Thanks for taking on this subject! I personally under promise and over deliver, it brings smiles to customers real easily. I also give 2 estimates, 1 if the job turns out easy and 1 if everything goes wrong and there’s lots more involved. If everything goes wrong at the very least the customer was pre-warned and it’s less stress on them and not a complete surprise.
I like it!
I’d like to hear more about how you present the two & the cost difference.
Thanking you in advance.
Down side is (depending on the customer personality) he/she will take more to heart the lower price an will try to tell you the blame is yours , your the professional when something is wrong and you will have to compromise your profits
You are undercutting yourself. Always quote the higher price unless you are slow and need/want the job.
I'm a painting contractor. When I encounter a difficult customer that wants everything listed, I judge how the future of our interactions will be to decide if I want to take the time to itemize anything. If I determine the customer will try my patience every day I am on the job, I don't invest any more time with that person. If they just want to know labor vs a lump materials cost, I will do that. Usually I just give a single number for the total cost of the project.
I work alone for the most part. I haven’t had anyone in the three years I been in business ask me to do a cost breakdown. I’m in north central Florida. I change $76 per hour, $96 for the 1st hour and 30% markup on all materials. I don’t advertise. It’s all word of mouth. I do what I say I’m going to do and I show up when I say I’m going to show up. I’m honest and I have integrity. Work and think this way and you’ll be a success.
Raise your rates
@@allbayfishing9456 your right but it is Florida. Where you at?
@@oldnstillworkin5709 st pete
@@allbayfishing9456 what are your rates?
Nice handle.
"Well, if you're not going to use the whole sheet of plywood... I don't see why I should have to pay for the whole sheet of plywood."
Man if I had a dollar everytime I've heard that! 😂
Yes, specially if they get to keep the rest for the next job or future job it’s money in their pockets. The customer can request to keep the left overs, or you can give them the option. The customer always looses the argument anyway because the handyman always has the right answer, disposal, I don’t have room to store it etc, you will never know what the real truth is.
When dumps were refusing all pressure treated lumber I started telling customer they have "heritage lumber" it belongs to the property now the next owners or your kids can use it some day.
@@nicholasthibeault1729perfect lol
I've only been self employed since last June. I'm from CT. I do all residential as a general contractor in home improvement. Most of my customers do not ask for a detailed estimate. All they care about is the final price. but when they do ask how much the labor cost is, I tell honestly tell them and the reasons why. In my area I have to charge $100-$150 an hour or i'm not making any money.
I work up my estimates line by line for my internal records in my database software, then provide a single line price detailing what the project entails to the customer. For my internal records I have every material, tax, delivery, material acquisition, design time, clean-up, milage, disposal fees, labor, etc for each step. I build in my profit by adding 15% to each of those lines.
If the project is not all related, for instance, paint master bedroom, replace bathroom faucet, and new flooring in dining room, each of those 3 things will be a separate line.
If there are unknowns, such as will I have to replace the drywall after removing paneling, will the subfloor under the toilet need to be replaced, I'll include the full cost of doing that in the estimate, then include a "contingency discount" line on the estimate that reduces the bottom line cost if those specific items do not need to be done.
I never give a breakdown on a bid. I'm not the best at bids and you give a lot of solid advice. The most I'm willing to break it down is to separate labor from materials. Anything other than that and you can take it or leave it....cuz every time I've ever broken my bid down they handed it to another contractor and asked them 'can you beat these numbers?'
So I choose to not give them the info to low-ball me....because I've also had these same people call me later to try and come and fix the work of the other contractor they gave my bid to beat. He starts it, he can finish it.
I’m all word of mouth as well no apps. I used to break things down for customers. That led to nothing but pain in the butt customers. Prices for materials changed so much last year that I only quote labor now sometimes. And add materials at the end. If they ask for breakdown now I say $5,000 to do the job $0 to not do the job.
Love your channel. Everything makes sense 👍🏼
I can see where this is coming from.
I'm normally do most projects myself, but a couple years ago we were renovating our house to get it on the market after living in it for 15+ years. We were limited on time, and some of the work I just haven't done before.
We hired a contractor to do some window replacements, and also a contractor to renovate the bathroom since we only had 1 and downtime wasn't an option if I did it myself.
That being said, the contractor was horrible. Not only did he mislead me on the timeframe to get things completed by almost double, he went with the cheapest items he could, but charged 6X the amount he was getting them for and didn't install what was asked for and had to redo it.
Example, the valves on the existing sink were seized and since we were putting in a new vanity, I wanted the valves changed out. It was written in their quote to have a plumber there to solder on new valves and specifically said no shark bite type fittings. Well, when they changed the vanity, there was no plumber, and the guy used shark bites. When I asked about it, they said a plumber wasn't in the scope and he didn't want to solder new fittings on. Luckily, I had that specific line item in writing and they fixed the issue, but there were several more instances where they took the absolute cheapest way out of things and cut corners that should not have been cut and wanted more money to do it they way I asked them to do things from the beginning.
I can absolutely see why people would want a detailed bid with contractors like that out there.
I got burned by doing this. Sent their neighbor to get materials I wrote up for them. He screwed up the job and they couldn't figure out why I wouldn't help them out. I didn't explain...I just told them to figure it out themselves. Lesson learned.
15k to do it, $0 to not do it lol
This.
@@motherfudger6664 I ironic enough learned it from the hand_e_man himself during covid lol
The best practice I have found is to give 1 round number for the project. This has significantly reduced the amount of times I have had customers ask to break everything down.
Part of this is also due to building an online presence. Building up your reviews so that customers know if they can trust you or not. Google my business is huge and needs to be leveraged.
The only time I really break anything down is when insurance is involved and the customer needs these documents for their claim. Even then, I’m vanguarding and letting the customer know that insurance doesn’t like to pay what it takes to get the project done.
These are good tips, but I would work on knowing your numbers and establishing trust through online reviews, then, you focus marketing to your target customer base and you eliminate a lot of these problems.
@mainely8007 sometimes the best projects are the ones you didn’t have to do
I have a landscape construction company and I always break down estimates by tasks, ie demo and prep, dumping fees, patio installation etc, With those line items I ahve a full description of what we are going to do. Never usually have a problem. If someone wants more detail than that, they are often not going to be very easy to work with.
Regarding unknowns, the best thing you can do is to have well worded contracts with contingencies for unforeseen circumstances. Also just communicate with the customer that things may change depending on what we find. I find that good communication goes a long way. My problem I have is normally is that a lot of customers communicate very poorly with me or their spouse and sometimes things get misconstrued in the process. There's always something. Its not easy but someone's gotta do it. lol
I do a detailed estimate for myself and that’s what is used to give a quote to the customer but I don’t give them a line item breakdown. For items that they need to pick out I give an allowance cost in the estimate that I give them but that’s it. If they want a detailed invoice then I tell them it will be done as an hourly rate job and I’ll detail everything and it’s on their time.
Billing them for time spent in estimations is a very good idea. Thanks!
It's $Xxxx to do the job and it's $0 not to do the job. My experience is that as soon as you start to break down things itemized, then that's when the tire kicking starts. And then they expect you to compromise on your price or they want to compare you to the other guy.
Itemized estimates require extra time and that's not free. Better off weeding out those customers and moving on to the next
can tell them you'll charge them for a break down as that's extra time and effort, or charge them a flat rate for the break down like $100, you can say it'll go towards the deposit but it's not refundable.
@@MV-wb2cz yeah I've heard of people doing this. I'm fortunate that it's a rare case that people request this and honestly those people are the ones that are just looking for a way to knock me down in price. And it's just not worth the trouble
@@jaredchandler4504 I hear ya on that one, i've been fortunate as well with not having to deal with this as much.
I grew up surrounded by people who lived through "The Great Depression". Their sense of value was always pretty far off, the most common one I'd hear would be at a restaurant; "They want 25 cents for a piece of cheese", I had a great conversation with my Mother in Law right after she said that.
"You aren't buying a piece of cheese, how much electricity does it take to refrigerate that piece of cheese?", ever cut yourself in the kitchen, that happens at every restaurant. You need insurance, you need a first aid kit, you need someone onsite that understands labor laws (if you have employees). You have to pay the extended costs of any business.
If you roll to a job in a nicely branded shirt and hat, those cost money. Gotta maintain tools and vehicles. Nothing is free.
Mr. Handyman, I love this video and have been awaiting it with anticipation. Thank you very much. I sincerely appreciate your approach and will take it to heart. Also love the discussion you provoked and to learn how others in the business are dealing with "crazy" customers and how they handle them.
I worked at a restoration company for 20 years as a production manager and part of my job was to review estimates that salesman had prepared. When the estimate was for insurance companies, we used Xactimate software which have everything listed by line item. The number for us was a hard number and nonnegotiable and if they wanted to get it done cheaper, we would need to remove part of the work from the estimate.
I usually explain my price if someone asks nicely just like you've done. If they don't like the profit or wage I'm going to make.
I usually won't bother explaining my overhead costs or the fact that they are paying for experience ect. Chances are that isn't my customer and I move on.
In the past four weeks I have spent many hours preparing highly detailed estimates and every single one of them decided to go elsewhere. That's their prerogative of course, but I've decided to stop giving them a detailed breakout of the costs. Yes, they can see the bottom line, but I'm not doing all this work for them for free anymore!!
That's all it really is. You're finding them the prices of everything, and pricing your labor. They're gonna get the same from another, and whoever ends up cheaper is the one they chose.
I also usually give a price. For example, it’s $5000 to do the job, $0 to not do it. My estimates are usually free, but if you want an itemized estimate, there will be a charge for my time for that, and most people agree and understand
I'd go back and bill them
I actually put a watermark on my initial estimate (using Wondershare) so at least there may be some shame if they want to show it to another contractor to beat.
You did the work for them! They hand your estimate over to the next guy to do it for less!
I once had a guy tell that he knew a guy who would do the same work for literally half of what I bid. I told him good luck, and told him to keep my card in case he needed it. A few weeks later he called me to come and fix what his friend had done. I wound up making more on that job than I original estimated. As to detailed pricing, I do that on every job I do that is over $500, and I detail every nail and screw. I usually don't show that to the customer. I do that to protect myself. I can give it to the customer if they want it, but very seldom do I have to, and even then, when they see 150 or more line items and the tally, they usually skim it and never look at it again. By the way, once you do a couple of those, you have a template and it becomes easy and fairly quick to do.
I have owned a single guy custom cabinet shop for over 20 years and totally agree with all the points made. In my experience be very careful with breaking a job down to that level. It gives the wrong type of client the tools to gut your quotation of any profit and leave you with endless re-quotes removing more and more profit and more paperwork. Be especially careful if like myself you are supplying trade only materials not available to the general public as this will come back to haunt you in the future when it's word of mouth work. Personally I always supply a full written fixed price quotation with a specification of works but never a cost breakdown.
By trade only materials what are you referring to? I'm looking to start a similar business but the supply side is what I'm having trouble with understanding. Is there a special place where you get your wood, glue, etc?
I have several repeat customers that don't ask for an estimate, they just want me to do the work and bill them... Those are the best customers to have. Other customers want an estimates. I give line items for each job I'll perform like "replace exhaust fan & add new duct for exhaust to outside: $600.00 ". I have a supplies section on my estimate to describe the materials I'll be using to let them know why its so expensive like stainless steel 3" deck screws, Azek siding trim, or Grey Sherwin Williams interior satin paint. That way if they want to take something off the list its already clear how much that will reduce the cost. and if they want to change materials its clear that it will adjust the materials cost. Then I have a total labor cost & a total supplies cost and a grand total. I make sure to add terms such as full Materials cost due before work begins if its a large project, & full payment due at completion of work.
Also for extremely common stuff like screws, if you can estimate how many you will use, you can buy the industrial pack or multiple industrial packs, and then sell them bit by bit.
I do this with various cabinet related screws and nails.
Customer has to buy a minimum of 1 box, whatever that amounts to. Then after 10 or 20 projects, you can buy the industrial packs with the greatest price break and sell them box by box.
For example, my supplier will sell 10 boxes 1 1/2 16 GA nails for 8.97. HD sells them for 18ish, so after you do a couple small bathroom remodels ( I am strictly trim/ cabinets), you can pay for all 10 boxes, and still have 8 left.
I use line item estimates like that internally, that way I can break out my money into different piles to pay for screws, nails etc.
A coworker of mine was having a house built. The builder gave her a detailed list of items like how much a light will cost, faucet price and install cost. She was on the phone at work arguing with the poor guy on why he was charging x for something when she found it cheaper at x place. 😂
Na, I am good. No thanks, I’ll move on to the next job.
And more than likely not the same item.
@@motherfudger6664 exactly!
Yup! They see a door slab at Home Depot for $30 and wonder why my estimate averages $150/door installed. It's because the door with custom bore/hinge prep. from a door co. costs way more. (I could do it myself, but would cost even more)
Exactly, they expect you to charge the same price as lowes... it's like I have to go.buy this light fixture from lowes for $30 and then also install it for the same price I bought It for? People don't think things through.
I know how many days a job will take me. I charge so much a day for my labor. My day starts when I pull up to the store about 6/7am. I never mark up materials but I have leftovers in my shop from other jobs. I never charge a customer more than estimated but do charge less sometimes. I never ever give detailed estimates except time of start estimated time to complete, 50% money upfront, when the balance is due etc. I've never had a problem usually always finish early and I never hire help. I'd never waste my time doing detailed estimates of materials. Its just not necessary...too many other customers who need help. My customers have always been happy. I feel so blessed to be a business owner, keeping my own time and making people happy. Its a good life.
Everyone who read your comment should write that on their wall.
@@Seldomheardabout thank u
this is exactly how i operate as well, i still am learning the time that takes to bring a job to completion
Estimator for custom home builder in the Southeast projects ranging from 800k-5M - if I am given a preliminary set of plans I go through and use all of my historic data for some of the material estimates in the interest of time. I have been able to get within 5% of the true cost of the project about 90% of the time doing this. If I am asked for a full itemized estimate at the preliminary stage there are 2 things that I say:
1- I say "why do you need my full priceout at this phase of the project when the plans aren't developed? I don't give out this information so you can pass along to someone else as this estimate and it's templated information is proprietary to my company"
or 2- "if you are willing to pay 1% of this estimate as a part of a construction agreement, I will be happy to share all of the information you request as the plans are developed further and will assist in finding cost saving alternatives if that is what you are looking for"
With any job I am bidding on, I ALWAYS discuss unforseen hidden damages. I tell them that I can't see it now, so I'm not charging for it now; BUT if there is something found that must be replaced/fixed while doing the original scope of work, I will let them know right away. I back this up with the worst case scenario - replacing a huge picture window in a living room, after getting the old window out, found termite damage in the framing. Showed her told her that we had to keep removing until we found solid wood. We ended up literally taking down the entire wall on the front of her home! Drywall, electrical, framing, siding, oh and the window.
I refuse line items like this. When I was starting I might have done it, but I'm not quoting you the cost of each little thing. Customers like this are almost always a nightmare to deal with. I also don't work with customers who want to nickle and dime everything or claim "I can get it cheaper elsewhere", these are more red flags.
Aint nobody got time for a line by line unless it's a big job, otherwise not worth the time. This is the price, if you want the work great, if not there's plenty of people who can't even find someone decent to work right now
Great topic to discuss Handydude. As a customer, I’m a “give me the total price” kinda guy. I don’t need a break down.
I usually have rough item pricing for things.
$10/little items.
$20/medium items.
$35/odd items.
$50/bigger items.
This includes my markup and travel time for the pieces in-between and allows me to count it out really fast. If anyone asks for a break down I give them that explanation and let em count them out themselves.
As soon as they ask for a full break out, that is no longer an estimate that is the bill. I got into an argument over cut off wood scraps and left over screws. "I paid for an eight foot 2x4, I get a eight foot 2x4, not a seven foot. . ." and "I paid for a pound of screws, I get a pound of screws." It's not like some custom mixed paint that's useless to everyone else. Collecting up the extras is what makes it possible to cut corners on odd jobs. I've run into other problems and I now have a line on my invoices: "Until paid in full, all materials remain the property of the contracted worker(s) whether consumed in the commission of the job or not. So long as the bill is unpaid, the contractor may enter the premises to nullify their labor and/or remove their property. After the client has paid the agreed upon final bill, and the contractor confirms it, the materials consumed in the commission of the job become the property of the client. Any remaining materials are the property of the contractor to use or dispose of as they choose." Haven't had any problems or unpaid jobs since.
Hahahaaa! @5:10 the lumberyard gives you the potato chips of 2x4s. If you don’t pick out your own lumber. Amen brother 😂
I get the curve ball here. Where I live in the SFO bay area, there is a huge diversity of cultures and each one of them is different when it comes to home repair cost. So I have to strategize my estimates depending. Some give the persona to me as being a simple man, a laborer so they don't want to pay. Although I hold three college degrees! I have to inform them of this. Some cultures insist to remove shoes and wear masks before entering. I have to walk around in my socks when working these jobs. I may have to start refusing these jobs. I can't climb ladders in socks! Oh the stories I have to tell. Luckily I am working for a few property managers now and it's much better. Although I still have to remove my shoes with some tenants!
Just recently had a potential client do this. We went and looked at 4 properties (didn’t charge her), she and the realtor picked my brain, we chose one and made an extensive list of improvements.
Then she countered back wanting to take items out and get an itemized before she decided on the property.
If she wants to pay for my time to write out how many pieces of sheet rock, tape, hours, etc. happy to but this “free estimation” shit is getting old and the number I’m giving for free is the number you get unless you pay for more detail.
No free estimates, bill her
I always give the first hour for free. After that I go back to the charge method
I do estimates based on price of the job. Under $500.00 I do a virtual estimate and say "we'll estimate it when we get there before we start." $500 to $15,000 I show up and spend an hour on site and deliver a free estimate. Over $15,000 I bill my base hourly rate for every hour of review/design/permitting etc.
That's my default for residential and light commercial clients.
What I do it to tell the client they have to pay for the estimate and if they take the job the estimate get credited to them Bec cause I would have had to do the breakdown anyway, a lot of my work is time and materials - the competitive bidding process burns up a lot of time - small 2-3 day job are the best for me
One problem I find after having done this for 6 years for a living is that, even in a fairly affluent area, when you advertise as a "handyman' people are expecting a bargain. You generally don't get the respect of a general contractor or electrician or plumber. They are looking for a deal and if you charge what your time is worth, many (or even the majority) will bail. And then of course the irony is that they are more likely to complain about the work. They equate you to some guy walking around mindlessly waving a blower. I've walked on quite a few jobs where the customer was being unreasonable. I might be out a day's pay but now it's on them to find someone who will do it as well as cheaply. No hard feelings I simply say "Good luck!"
BOOKKEEPING is KEY. The estimate turns into the budget, turns into the invoice, then payment - and this all goes into the books together. Estimates can be created with apps that plug into bookkeeping software. Until I started using BK software it was a huge pain for me anytime a customer wanted a detailed invoice or even a basic receipt. Tax time and loans were a PITA early on and I'm sure a lot of people here have had the same experience. Love the videos.
Which software do you use
@@allbayfishing9456 har har har
@@cliffpalermo dang, shit went right over my head.
Have you ever heard of a construction company getting audit by the IRS? Neither have I. 😂
@@antonbriggs5680 of course I have. I have a few self employed single owner friends that have as well.
Some people can be difficult and understandably so nowadays. Been coming across more and more people who want everything but do not want to pay for it. Had a lady recently tell me she needed an estimate for a deckbuild. I provided one and she then asked how much I charge per hour. The back and forth really makes me think it is not worth pursuing. Tired of people who do not value my time, I would never waste it, nor theirs ever. After saying my estimate was too high and realizing my per hour was more than she thought she asked me to give her the original estimated price. I explained to her that I had taken on other work.
Spread sheet for yourself line itemized out materials labor markups etc
Cust gets workorder with all work detailed out and one price at bottom
The spreadsheets works as a task list for you and it should be same as workorder without prices nor materials
Exactly....ultimately all they care bout is the bottom line and the quality of work you do when comparing to others. Giving too much information leads to nit picking at the small pricing details.
My SOP is giving my customer the excel spreadsheet (line item) with my estimate. It includes material, my estimate of man hours needed (TIP- double how long u think it's going to take). Totaled up then P&O on top of that with a grand total. The customers that enjoy getting that are the customers that you want.
I usually skip jobs like that. Just not worth the effort and the customer is usually harder to work with if they want a quote like that. What do you think?
I want to buy a caulk gun sweater... Please show me the itemized breakdown?
In the auto repair business, software is available to provide line item material and labor as well as shop expense for cleaners and disposal of waste. The software has connection with suppliers, providing costs as well as ordering capabilities.
If I'm having to do a line item estimate then I didn't do a good job building rapport and building trust. If a customer is a type that they want line items so they can argue, question, and try to negotiate each item they won't like the line I add "difficult customer fee"
😅
I do tile & grout ccleaning, sealing and minor repairs including showers. Not too many unknown variables at this point (10 years) and I just give one price per component. In the description I give enough detail to justify the cost. Many people have no idea what it takes to actually get something done. I can't tell you how many times someone has baulked at the price to replace a broken tile. They think you just 'pop it out' and stick down a replacement...
It's a fantastic place to get to the point when the phone rings with zero dollars spent on marketing. Higher end customers are the best. Just this week I was told "I trusted you from the minute I met you, do whatever you think we need done and add it to the bill."
You can group items together .... like ....
"Materials" (list the materials) and add 25%(wiggle room) to what you estimate it'll actually cost.
"Labour" through in "sourcing materials" and add %25 (wiggle room) to what you want to be making in case something unexpected comes up.
I don't mind throwing all the key words in an estimate and make it clear to the customer that unexpected problems may come up and it WILL cost more.
how do you have such a nice head of hair handyman?
I've dealt with this with a specific investor(I mostly work for investors in my area). I break everything out and then add in a Documentation fee/Doc Fee just like a car dealership. The way I justified it to them because they absolutely said it was malarkey was that my standard estimates included a labor cost and description, and a materials cost and description. Neither broken out. If they wished for me to break down individual materials after the fact(meaning creating a second estimate practically speaking) that time would be billed regardless of the acceptance of the estimate. Where I'm at I have a minimum billable charge of $100 (I use this at my discretion however it is posted on my invoices.) . So that's what they'd get billed.
I don’t take those customers. I live in a very upscale suburb and find if someone is a pain about little things they’re going to be nickel and dime-ing me on everything. I started my handyman business a year ago in large part due to your channel. I have more work than i can handle. Partly because i only work 3 days a week. I take bigger jobs with my brother to help me. Hard work but this has been one of the best things I’ve done in my life.
The "potatoes chip" 2x4's!! I almost spit my soda out!! Well played Handyman, Dirty Jersey out!!
This is my favorite angle of your shop, video wise.
Love the emphasis on customer service and and how it seems to be a rare commodity these days. It plays a much larger roll in my decision making process when it comes to hiring someone than it has in the past.
Clear and concise the big dawg holds it down!
What I’ve been doing now with fairly good success is telling customers I will give them a ballpark budget within 10% of the job and I’ll add in a few of the details outside on a standard project as well. It’s been cutting down my time working on bids for people who aren’t serious or had not expected the “high” price. Then a guarantee my price won’t change when I do the full breakdown budget after.
And for “unknown” items, I add a contingency to the invoice saying “in these scenarios we often see underlying issues such as…. so budget an additional 10% of the over all total to cover unforeseen issues. We will show and discuss the issues once they are discovered”
Disclaimer, I prepare the customer in the initial meeting that this is exactly how I handle things so it’s never been an issue.
I itemize, but keep it fairly vague. Materials, labor, O&P for GC jobs etc. Try to get more granular if it's being seen by an insurance company - I've had a few of those in the last couple of years. It totally depends on the job how I group things together, whether it's a new or established customer, small or larger job - with certain established clientele it could be just a guess and a handshake. Sometimes the "baseboards" line item will be described as material, install and finish and others I have all trim materials as a line item and all painting as another and so on. Try to keep it as broad as possible while breaking down a potentially five figure number somewhat to make it digestible.
I saw a line item for "contents manipulation" in a competing bid once for a large company so now I always use that one. I like to incentivize people to move their shit out of the way and if I have to do it I know I'm at least making money.
I'm a young handyman. Worked in NYC for 3 years and now I'm down in Florida. What seems to work best for me is to have an hourly rate and charge for materials/pickup/etc. I understand that doesn't always work for bigger jobs but I've found that most of the time I'm far, FAR under what specialized contractors charge--which helps with any guilt. If you do go the hourly rate, definitely charge what you need and not what you think is appropriate because you don't want to lose jobs. I've never lost a job because of my hourly rate, but I have for flat estimates.
2019 changed things for me because I couldn't track the material increases. I went to 75$ hr including some drive time to offset gas. Often the customer opens their own lumber yard account that I can charge to. It's nice to not handle money that's not for me. I tell them light heartedly but serious you pay the bill on Friday, I come back on Monday. Our work has to speak for itself and quickly build confidence.
Worked with my father for 10 years in HVAC. If they asked for a detailed break down we told them they needed someone else. Never, ever advertised our business and never had a slow day. Word of mouth purely. Train your customers, payment is due upon completion not 30 days later, and we kept track of who referred someone on to us in case they didn't pay we would go back and say, "hey, why did person xyz you referred on to us not pay?" 10 years, only one person didn't pay, and it was such a small bill it wasn't worth the time in small claims court. But if you want to waste time doing a line item estimate, go for it, your choice and your time. Still doesnt mean you get the job though.
I'm in NE TN. Last summer we got a call about a tree that had fallen on a house. Insurance company wanted to see an itemized list for repairs! Pain in the butt, but in the end I got paid for the headache.
It's can be difficult to explain this to a new independent contractor. I always tell them to give a fair quote, and move on. The customer will call you when they can't find anyone that can do better work for lower cost. Don't adjust your standards just to get one fussy customer.
This. Learned myself the hard way when I started... trying to get jobs I bent over backwards and regardless of that they were still demanding to the very end. It was too much stress. The more leash you give the harder they pull. If they don't like the bid, smile, say OK! and move on.
True. Often times the "cheap" customers are also the most picky
I've seen customers demand their extra screws because they say they purchased them . Some customers are a pain.
But it's all about you charging what you're worth and them deciding if they want to be cheap or fair
Last year I quoted a job for a business and they didn't want to pay me $2,000 for 8 hours with $800 in materials ( I would have profited $1200)
So they hired a plumbing company that used the same supplier and charged them $3000 in labor because it was $1500 for 2 guys each plus the $800 materials from the same guy I used. So their total became $3800
They wanted a estimate from me but didn't require one from them
All depends on the job. And the customer really. My top 3 customers get one price and pay me back for materials or I charge upfront for all materials. Depends on the size of the job also.
-One service, one price
-Multiple services, Multiple prices
-Multiple services (steps) within one task, (mold remediation, Bath remodel), One price.
Any materials over $200 must be paid upfront with the deposit.
For estimates where customers hasnt decided what faucet they want or which storm door they wany.
I simply put an allowance, anything over must be reimbursed to the me.
Ex. Storm door. $250 labor and $250 allowance. Total $500 if the door she chooses is over $250 she will owe the difference. Vice versa
I don’t have a “how to” on itemization. In general, I do not price per item. I give a preliminary, which includes our project’s main features as a list, then give them a “turn-key” cost. If they want an itemized bid, I will do that only when they’ve expressed that they are good to go. I’ll show up with an itemized contract and leave it with them when the money is in my hand. I don’t make exceptions anymore. But this won’t work for everyone at all times. Sometimes a contractor does things for new clients (especially whales) that they wouldn’t normally do. That’s the way it goes. But, as a rule, I give them no work, other than a consultation, without money.
That was a very honest video. I totally agree with what you said. I once had a client who wanted to add a penalty to the job if I didn't get it done in time. I told her I would do that if she gave me a bonus if I got it done before the deadline. Needless to say she didn't do that. But she did want the whole job line itemized. I charge $250 on the line item to cover my cost
If they select the lumber you may be OK with the correct business. Many 2x4 could be great to make hockey sticks. Another variant is wonderful for canoe gunnels. Only about 50 percent are good for studs or other construction requiring something approaching straight and not twisted.
I Fire Difficult Clients. And of course I can do this because of WOMouth. MOST of the time I give all of my clients a estimate/guestimate to the range of labor costs and materials. If I don't do this then most of the time I get burned and I will most likely lose that client. Now for the ones that want an detailed estimate, I am happy to do that. More often than not I end up charging them more than folks I charge by the hour.
I don’t line item things, when you do that not only do you need to charge more for the additional time it took to do that but guaranteed you’ll end up answering and explaining a hundred questions about each line item as well as customers wanting to keep boxes of screws and such because “they paid for it”
I go over the project with potential clients, give them my input and ideas, cone to a consensus on what the bid will entail and then I give them a price that includes all my labor and materials with my markups for profit and overhead costs etc.
I tell them when I can start and when I will finish, and thats it.
If they want to know how reasonable my price is they can get bids from other contractors and then see where I land and either accept my bid or don’t accept my bid.
I work on a first come first serve basis and I only book people in my schedule after I get a signed contract and down payment.
Been at it 7 years working for myself now and have never been without work.
I don't really do remodels or anything like that. They just end up being a quagmire and it's faster going from little job to little job. Cash daily vs cash later is nice too.
I try to keep a mixture of the two going.
I much prefer remodels over quick little jobs. I end up losing money on quick little jobs because I'm not good at scheduling them such that I work enough. I like a nice 4-6 week gig. That's my sweet spot. Steady work. Get paid. take a few days off while transitioning into the next job.
I need to get better at doing those quick jobs though. It's all about "me" calling costomers and scheduling. I have trouble with that. Can't really tell someone I can be at their house a week from today at a certain time. Inevitably something comes up I didn't anticipate and I end up on a job a day longer or whatever.
@blackdog productions Yeah I typically try and keep the schedule full for a week or 2 weeks out. I'm not a good "builder" as much as I am a great "fixer". It allows me to run solo with no worries about meeting deadlines. I owned an ISP before this and had 15 employees. All I learned is how evil people really are and thus being a solo handyman makes me happy. Especially when people say "you're the man" after fixing something for them. It brightens my day a lot.
@@MichaelJohnson- solo is the best, i've been with the same customer for almost 2 years of every day work if I wanted, apartment after apartment finishing, they buy a new place, gut it, then i come in and finish it, move onto the next one. Only issue I have currently is being able to make more money because they expect me to charge a similar price for each one and i started as $ and now i'm opening a legit business so i dunno what i'm going to do in the near future lol.
@M V You should at least try and explain why you will need to charge more going forward (inflation is a real thing). People pay for trust more than skill in those types of environments tbh.
I live in a small town, and most of my work is for repeat customers or word-of-mouth referrals. More often than not they don't even ask what it will cost, they tell me what they want, and when the job's done they ask what it cost. I'm not sure I would even want to work for someone who wanted everything itemized, since I really don't have to. One of the benefits of being a small business in a small town.
Aw naw….! I worked for a ‘Handyman company’ in which we had to give breakdown estimates. I quoted a job with customer supplied paint. My quote was like $900 labor plus $20 materials. Customer asked what materials. I said, roller covers and brushes etc. Customer lost his shit- ‘You don’t have brushes?’ and i didn’t get the job. Last time I broke down the estimate like that.
No allowance for tools and consumables, ehh? Customer offering to use his tools? No thanks! do the job yourself! 😅
Good points! I find with the higher priced projects the customer would want at least a simplified breakdown materials, labor, etc. itemized estimates certainly require high levels of customer service due to expected questioning by the customer on items.
My estimate template is built around a material worksheet which includes 30% fee for taxes and material handling, and a labor worksheet that calculates hours, benefits, and labor burden (work comp, taxes, etc). Those sheets feed into a sheet that then applies Overhead, Contingency, and Margin. Those costs then get distributed 50/50 into a client price as line items for Labor and for Materials. My final estimate breaks out those two line items.
I find most clients are satisfied with that. For the ones who want more detail I will provide an "Assembly" cost breakout - that can be by room, or by overall "task." So if they hire us to do a new electrical service and a car charger I'll break out the Service Material and Labor and the Car Charger Material and labor. I don't generally give more granularity than that for the residential or light commercial client.
4:30 LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Love the elf!
I lost a bid for a basement remodel. I was supposed to pick up where the last guy left off. I gave me my price and he said it was to much! Then said he would only think about it if it was half of what I quoted. I lost the job, but I gained knowledge. Cheap people don’t want to pay
If you had got the job, you'd have lost a lot more 👍
You didn't loose anything. You won by not doing the job for a price below your quote.
Dude think about it, the last guy walked off nd they treated you like that? Lol you WON
I've learned not to bid on jobs started by someone else -- it's a potential sign that the client is hard to deal with and the last guy walked... or it was the client that started and realized it was too much for them and they want you to clean up their mess (while they look over your shoulder the whole job.)
@@goodnamesareallgone1 Bingo! I agree completely!
Don't forget administrative costs like getting yourself license bonded insured if you are such and the time for preparing the quote and line item breakdown as well. Those are all costs associated with the business so they should be accounted for.
I charge for quotes. If they want more details- they pay more. The more detailed, the more expensive. I rarely am asked for more than category totals using this method. Most people that want itemized are cheap and want to compare my item prices with others. If they've already paid me to quote, they likely aren't going to price shop me and sink the cost of estimating.
I did a bathroom remodel and re-pipe last year and I asked for the details so It was specified that I wanted all ball valves. I also appreciated the plumber left the extra PEX in my crawl space.
Not related to handyman type activities. Had a customer with phone and video conferencing problems. Vague in their description of how the issue manifests.
That's ok, there are a ton of diagnostics that I can do and some of them take a bit of time.
So I capture the data, do the research, come up with a playbook of configs. Then we spend two hours on the phone applying, validating, and then we wait for a big 120 person video meeting and it all works.
Now mind you that this has been going on for about 6 months, multiple prior techs, and I solve it.
They get the bill and are pissed off that there is more than the two hours that I spent on the phone with them. I calmly replied that this has been a lingering problem, that others failed to fix, and that not all billable time is spent client facing.
I don't do breakdowns, it's like being asked to show my payslips, rude! Imagine asking the client to reveal their last three months earnings because you want to know they're able to settle up after the job?
I get that some people just want to make sure they're not being ripped, but I'm just not wasting my time breaking down costs and revealing my earnings, that's my private affairs.
I have always itemized estimates for customers because it helps me not forget anything (I have 60-80 line items set up in QB) but sometimes I end up spending 4-6 hours on a house remodel or addition estimate just for them to take it and then possibly use as a template for another contractor to underbid me if they share this estimate with the competition. It's disheartening and has made me either choose wisely as to how I present an estimate, or simply only give them the total bottom line number and explain I will itemize their invoices for them. Alternatively, I have considered charging for an estimate but in today's economic climate, that is not easy to do. It seems that everyone around here is a self proclaimed handyman now. And with a recession coming, that does make things more competitive. The problem is potential customers will price shop, not quality shop.
Thanks for the Great practical advice !
Good topic Handy. Only did a detailed estimate once for a friend on a bath remodel. Basically gave them allowances for materials and my cost to do the job. Worked out great for me and they were happy!
I charge for detailed estimates, luckily not many people ask for them. Did one for state farm today, had one line item, we'll see if they accept it
I learned through out my experiences that you have to prepare a customer with a (discovery)fee, as what I learned to call it…lol which is usually $200-$300 extra (Labor) fee added in case the job requires extra work to complete “Bid” agreement.
I don't break down costs unless it's for repeat customers. I know I have the work and we are working on budgeting. I was told in my 20's working for a paving/sealing company to not break down prices. The customer will break apart everything not knowing anything about the installation methods or product durability compared to competitors. Our general manager would call most if not all potential customers to discuss our proposal compared to the other proposals they received. She wanted to make sure they were comparing apples to apples and not apples to oranges. This led to conservation about how we may be more expensive but a longer lasting quality job that could prevent premature failures.
Great info. If they want to know what they're paying for you to do the job, I see no harm in presenting that. If they don't want to pay what you're worth then you don't want that customer. Sometimes you have to fire customers.
When I was an HVAC tech, I would write out the estimate for repairs after diagnosing the problem. I presented the client with all charges, even if I had to go into overhead and all of that. I wasn't the owner so the pricing wasn't set by me. Now that I'm doing my own thing, I take the same approach and give as much information as possible. I'm not trying to hide anything. I haven't had any problems yet.
So do you charge for the hour hour or two that it takes you to figure out what all you need and the prices and the brand and everything just asking
@@zodiacdogkennels1006 as far as replacements, I include that in the profit margin. I stay up to date on pricing and keep it to between two brands, a good and than a better one. I can get pricing done in about 10mins.
I have recently started charging for certain estimates and of course if they contract with me then the estimate charge is credited towards the job but if they don’t I keep it for the time I spend traveling to and from the potential job site and the 45-an hour plus I usually spend going over the live in person sales explanation. I’ve yet to have a customer say no to the estimate fee once I break down the fact that an estimate could take 3 hours of travel time and an hour of actual estimate prep and writing.
As a tattoo artist, we don't break down our supplies cost. For me, it's just the hourly rate and I'm doing usually really big stuff that will take multiple sessions, so I don't even try to estimate the time. It costs what it costs, you want it?
We do detailed estimate’s for insurance companies.
I give pretty detailed invoices. Probably more in depth than is typical. I do not give detailed quoates. I'll do an estimate but I preface this with the fact that this price is an estimate. Not a quote. I just did one of these for a tile tub surround. I nailed it. I dislike having a figure out there though because it puts me under pressure to get things done which isn't the best for my mental state. I will be adding a lot of padding in the future to estimates. Think I'll take it as an opportunity to up my prices.