Very interesting! You know what's crazy? I've been reading several instructional blogs trying to figure out why I should care which tuning I use, between these 2, for my synthesizer (it has several oscillators which need to be tuned each time I play). And after all that reading, and still not having an answer, I show up here and you explain it's about chords and how they sound. I wish more people kept things simple. Thanks.
Just or Well Tempered is gorgeous. If you are using synthesizers, look into the Hermode Tuning system. It adjust the midi pitch data sent to a synth to be in Just temperament, but allows you to do key changes by interpolating the key you are in. Very cool. I first experienced this with the Waldorf Q synthesizer, which has Hermod Tuning built in as a system option parameter.
Thank you for posting this. I started composing in 7-limit Just Intonation and it took some time to dawn on me that I was playing the blues. Finding out the historical connections to 7-limit JI has really been affirming for me. I do have a question, are there any 11-limit JI harps? I have been curious to find ways to perform the 11:8 tritone, and I know that some modes of blues intonation go up to this prime.
interesting! I didn't know they made these. chords on the just intonation one sounds *so* much nicer to my ears. night and day really. I'd like to hear some proper playing on the just intonation one. Would a just intonation harmonica sound out of tune if played alongside a typical guitar?
I wonder how these compare to Compromise tuning, which is a combonation of JI and ET. I personally like the rougher, more chaotic nature of the ET chords as my playing can sound pretty wild at points. However when I play one of my Golden Melodies (ET) next to one of my Special 20s (Comp), the chords almost sound exactly the same. I personally think it's the tone that makes them sound different.
@@harmonicamastery It may be because I grew up listening to 90s country, but the most popular harmonica player in Nashville at that time (Terry McMillan) used ET tuned harmonicas, more specifically the Hohner Golden Melody. He could play warm sounding major pentatonic licks with Randy Travis, wail the blues with Garth Brooks, or do some chugging with Johnny Cash all while using the GM. I might've grown accustomed to ET chords that way or the harp has been mixed so well I could barely hear the "jangliness" of those chords. I've also heard through the grapevine that the late, great Paul DeLay also like the rougher chords of the Golden Melodies.
Ben - you say that Equal temperament is good for melody but bad for chords (jangling) whereas Just intonation is good for Chords. What you didn't say was whether Just intonation is also good for melody?
It's perfect for blues melodies in 2nd position. This tuning has a lot of flat notes - see the chart on the Sonnyboys site - the F notes are 27cents flat. So that's fine in 2nd position blues but try playing Jingle Bells in first and you will think it sounds really sour. Flat notes are what you need in blues but not in 'straight songs'
Thank you for the demonstration in this video. Would so love one of these tuned to A major with A=440. I am trying to teach others and start a group of different instruments and voices that makes all the music in just intonation temperament, 5 limit with some occasional higher extensions. Unfortunately a C just harp is tuned to the ET version of C not the 5 limit minor third above A 440. Having good ACOUSTIC fixed pitch JI instruments is a rare treasure on the earth today that is unfortunately overlooked.
actually you want tune a harp ever so slightly sharp - like 441 or maybe 442. This is because the air pressure we create, just by drawing or blowing into the hole flattens the tuning of the reeds. You notice this effect strongly when you play too hard - notes are really flat all over when you attack the harp with too much air. Also, this is why you see the A=441 on Lee Oskar harp. It’s a bit of a gimmick, tho, for almost all harmonica makers tune their harps slightly sharp.
When you take into account that Little Walter, Big Walter, Sonny Terry, Sonny Boy 1 John Wlliamson and Sonny Boy Williamson 2 Rice Miller, five legendary fantastic blues harp players all played the 'Just Intonation' harmonica, you would think that EVERY single major harmonica maker would make a version with 'Just Intonation' tuning. Particularly: Hohner!! Seydel! Suzuki! Lee Oskar! Kongsheng and Easttop. 19 limit and equal temp are fine. But when will these legendary harmonica companies finally make their own diatonic harmonica with 7 limit Just Intonation tuning?? The hohner marine band deluxe Just Intonation! The Seydel 1847 just intonation! The Suzuki Manji just intonation. And many more ...why can't Hohner, Seydel, Suzuki, see the potential sales and excellent advertizing potential using the names of all those great blues players from the past regarding this legendary tuned harmonica?? I won't be surprised if Konsheng and Easttop offer the Just Intonation blues harp before all the others finally do it.
"I won't be surprised if Konsheng and Easttop offer the Just Intonation blues harp before all the others finally do it." - You would think so. Ans so did we at Sonnyboys, but when we made the Sonnyboys Mojo to with 7 limit Just Intonation tuning it was never very popular - even at £20 GBP. So when the factory - I think it was Kongsheng - doubled the cost price we were unfortunately no longer able to offer it competitively. They didn't see the market. Hence Sonnyboys now offering to have this tuning applied to any harmonica for you by a professional tuner - so we can still supply it, because we share your views that it is a wonderful tuning, but at a cost.
@@harmonicamastery Hi. Thanks for the reply, Ben. I have four sonnyboys Mojo 7 limit just tunings. I like'em but would have prefered a wood comb as an alternative to the aluminium comb. It's a shame major harmonica companies don't at least offer the old school 7 limit just intonation tunings as part of their harmonica line, after all, Little Walter, Big Walter, Sonny Terry, Sonny Boy Williams 1 and 2 all played them. They should be the same price as regular 19 limit and ET harps, not more expensive because of one flat 5th. Hohner should have kept the Just intonation 7 limit Marine Band as a major part of their stock. It's simple. Make the same harp tuning the greats played: Big and Little Walter, Sonny Terry, Rice Miller, Sonny Boy 1 and market it properly.
Hi covid, this is Ben. When you say 'this guy' do you mean me? Many people have never heard of intonation in my experience so I don't think I'm talking down to people. Of course there are experts who would know all this and more. Did I get something wrong? I'm keen to learn more about this subject. Please enlighten me. Thank you for your comment.
Sorry you are not happy, I also can't stand adverts. Robert you need to ask that question to UA-cam please. They choose what ads to show you depending on what videos you have been watching recently. It's not something we have any control over - I'm sure you know that.
Ben's Harp Club actually no i did not know that though i guess i should have. yes you are right sounds like you tube is who i should complain to... although i do know enough to know how much good it will do to complain to you tube. sorry
Very interesting! You know what's crazy? I've been reading several instructional blogs trying to figure out why I should care which tuning I use, between these 2, for my synthesizer (it has several oscillators which need to be tuned each time I play). And after all that reading, and still not having an answer, I show up here and you explain it's about chords and how they sound. I wish more people kept things simple. Thanks.
Simple is best!
Just or Well Tempered is gorgeous. If you are using synthesizers, look into the Hermode Tuning system. It adjust the midi pitch data sent to a synth to be in Just temperament, but allows you to do key changes by interpolating the key you are in. Very cool. I first experienced this with the Waldorf Q synthesizer, which has Hermod Tuning built in as a system option parameter.
Thanks for that information Ben.
Thanks Zoie. How are you these days?
Difference is huge. Great comparison, I like it!
Yes - if you can hear it! I wasn't aware of this phenomenon and couldn't hear it until Joe Filisko enlightened me 25 years back.
Thank you for posting this. I started composing in 7-limit Just Intonation and it took some time to dawn on me that I was playing the blues. Finding out the historical connections to 7-limit JI has really been affirming for me.
I do have a question, are there any 11-limit JI harps? I have been curious to find ways to perform the 11:8 tritone, and I know that some modes of blues intonation go up to this prime.
I think the best person to ask is Pat Missin from PatMissin.com. Winslow Yerxa will also know - he wrote Harmonica for Dummies. Ok?
Thank you for the comparaison!!!
Glad it was helpful!
Is there a list of just intonation harmonicas? Thankyou!
interesting! I didn't know they made these. chords on the just intonation one sounds *so* much nicer to my ears. night and day really. I'd like to hear some proper playing on the just intonation one.
Would a just intonation harmonica sound out of tune if played alongside a typical guitar?
Have a listen to some recent recordings from my pal Joe Filisko and see if you think it sounds in tune with the guitar.
It"s true.
I wonder how these compare to Compromise tuning, which is a combonation of JI and ET. I personally like the rougher, more chaotic nature of the ET chords as my playing can sound pretty wild at points. However when I play one of my Golden Melodies (ET) next to one of my Special 20s (Comp), the chords almost sound exactly the same. I personally think it's the tone that makes them sound different.
If you prefer the rough chords of ET stick with that. Or try one and see how it feels. Ben
@@harmonicamastery It may be because I grew up listening to 90s country, but the most popular harmonica player in Nashville at that time (Terry McMillan) used ET tuned harmonicas, more specifically the Hohner Golden Melody. He could play warm sounding major pentatonic licks with Randy Travis, wail the blues with Garth Brooks, or do some chugging with Johnny Cash all while using the GM. I might've grown accustomed to ET chords that way or the harp has been mixed so well I could barely hear the "jangliness" of those chords. I've also heard through the grapevine that the late, great Paul DeLay also like the rougher chords of the Golden Melodies.
@@goldenteledy2002 very possibly
Ben - you say that Equal temperament is good for melody but bad for chords (jangling) whereas Just intonation is good for Chords. What you didn't say was whether Just intonation is also good for melody?
It's perfect for blues melodies in 2nd position. This tuning has a lot of flat notes - see the chart on the Sonnyboys site - the F notes are 27cents flat. So that's fine in 2nd position blues but try playing Jingle Bells in first and you will think it sounds really sour. Flat notes are what you need in blues but not in 'straight songs'
Thank you for the demonstration in this video. Would so love one of these tuned to A major with A=440. I am trying to teach others and start a group of different instruments and voices that makes all the music in just intonation temperament, 5 limit with some occasional higher extensions. Unfortunately a C just harp is tuned to the ET version of C not the 5 limit minor third above A 440. Having good ACOUSTIC fixed pitch JI instruments is a rare treasure on the earth today that is unfortunately overlooked.
Thank you. Any good customiser can tune to your specifications, just ask them.
actually you want tune a harp ever so slightly sharp - like 441 or maybe 442. This is because the air pressure we create, just by drawing or blowing into the hole flattens the tuning of the reeds. You notice this effect strongly when you play too hard - notes are really flat all over when you attack the harp with too much air.
Also, this is why you see the A=441 on Lee Oskar harp. It’s a bit of a gimmick, tho, for almost all harmonica makers tune their harps slightly sharp.
The title needs to be reworded. I think you mean to write WE CAN MAKE THIS TUNING FOR YOU or WE CAN GET THIS TUNING FOR YOU
True - thanks for the heads up, I really appreciate you watching my back.
@@harmonicamastery Rock and Roll demands participation. Happy to help!
When you take into account that Little Walter, Big Walter, Sonny Terry, Sonny Boy 1 John Wlliamson and Sonny Boy Williamson 2 Rice Miller, five legendary fantastic blues harp players all played the 'Just Intonation' harmonica, you would think that EVERY single major harmonica maker would make a version with 'Just Intonation' tuning. Particularly: Hohner!! Seydel! Suzuki! Lee Oskar! Kongsheng and Easttop.
19 limit and equal temp are fine. But when will these legendary harmonica companies finally make their own diatonic harmonica with 7 limit Just Intonation tuning?? The hohner marine band deluxe Just Intonation! The Seydel 1847 just intonation! The Suzuki Manji just intonation. And many more ...why can't Hohner, Seydel, Suzuki, see the potential sales and excellent advertizing potential using the names of all those great blues players from the past regarding this legendary tuned harmonica?? I won't be surprised if Konsheng and Easttop offer the Just Intonation blues harp before all the others finally do it.
"I won't be surprised if Konsheng and Easttop offer the Just Intonation blues harp before all the others finally do it." - You would think so. Ans so did we at Sonnyboys, but when we made the Sonnyboys Mojo to with 7 limit Just Intonation tuning it was never very popular - even at £20 GBP. So when the factory - I think it was Kongsheng - doubled the cost price we were unfortunately no longer able to offer it competitively. They didn't see the market. Hence Sonnyboys now offering to have this tuning applied to any harmonica for you by a professional tuner - so we can still supply it, because we share your views that it is a wonderful tuning, but at a cost.
@@harmonicamastery Hi. Thanks for the reply, Ben. I have four sonnyboys Mojo 7 limit just tunings. I like'em but would have prefered a wood comb as an alternative to the aluminium comb. It's a shame major harmonica companies don't at least offer the old school 7 limit just intonation tunings as part of their harmonica line, after all, Little Walter, Big Walter, Sonny Terry, Sonny Boy Williams 1 and 2 all played them. They should be the same price as regular 19 limit and ET harps, not more expensive because of one flat 5th. Hohner should have kept the Just intonation 7 limit Marine Band as a major part of their stock. It's simple. Make the same harp tuning the greats played: Big and Little Walter, Sonny Terry, Rice Miller, Sonny Boy 1 and market it properly.
@@alframseysporndungeon8 All true Bob. We can do this tuning for you on any instrument or put you in touch with a tuner who can do it for you.
This guy talks as if it's to 2 year olds and what he is saying some of it is wrong it is not right. But that's the world over
isn't it.
Hi covid, this is Ben. When you say 'this guy' do you mean me? Many people have never heard of intonation in my experience so I don't think I'm talking down to people. Of course there are experts who would know all this and more. Did I get something wrong? I'm keen to learn more about this subject. Please enlighten me. Thank you for your comment.
i am not happy you have political ads on here. i do NOT watch harmonica vids so i can be bombarded with politics. please stop
Sorry you are not happy, I also can't stand adverts. Robert you need to ask that question to UA-cam please. They choose what ads to show you depending on what videos you have been watching recently. It's not something we have any control over - I'm sure you know that.
Ben's Harp Club actually no i did not know that though i guess i should have. yes you are right sounds like you tube is who i should complain to... although i do know enough to know how much good it will do to complain to you tube. sorry
@@robertbryanrobertb4832 I think you can purchase an 'ads free' version of youtube - I might do that myself.