All the pros will want to argue this! I’m Not trying to convince the pros. I’m talking to someone who wants to scale their business and someone who wants to DIY their shower! My wife and I just did a live on our channel talking about 💸💸pricing projects 💸💸 if you are struggling with that!
I'm remodeling my bathroom and was wondering what type of white thin set are you using? I have used that gray looking thin set and is more like concrete and I DO NOT LIKE IT WHAT SO EVER!!!!
General contractor here. Absolutely agree. If the budget can bear i will absolutely spend on the outside guy to come in and do a perfect rock-solid mud pan. But having an in-house option my guys can competently install every time is great and gives my client more options. There will always be a place for fine craftsmanship, just as there is a place for efficiency, standardization, and systems thinking. The trades are so diminished that there is ample room for both without anyone feeling threatened. Running a profitable business needs both at different times.
@@gsp4prez for a full bathroom Reno I would say that is very reasonable, but I'd also demand client references before handing over that much hard earned money. Also make sure you get a payment schedule with specific progress milestones in writing...
I had never done a mud job as a woman and a newb I had no issues. I just studied a lot on every aspect of it and everything came out exactly as planned.
Idk why but I always have such a high level of respect for women who tackle massive DIY projects like a bathroom remodel. My daughter is about a year and a half and I’m really excited to teach her how to do her own projects like that as she’s growing up.
Lol I'm sorry but if you figure out how to do something and research, research and do more research, most stuff isn't "hard". It's just a man speaking... 😅
Prefabs won't work on uneven surfaces is the issue. If the floor is perfect, go for it. Uneven, then atleast add a self leveler. If not, a mud bed is a must....
Am a profesional tile installer and I always made the mud pan at the Job site never use prefabricated pans every job has is own measurements… and I can adjust the level and pitch of the pan how I want it
@@natetuohy2615 No, it's more likely you will fuck it up if it's hard and you haven't done it before. And cost yourself a lot of money in the meantime. He's giving his opinion based on his experience. What's wrong with that?
as a DIY'er who will do this once maybe twice in my life while im young, i dont plan on getting enough experience to do the 'hard' so if someone invented something that can make the skill gap lower then i'll take it
@@jaimehewitt365 ok, so you pay 20x the amount of labor and materials instead? It’s just like anything, people take advantage of a skill/tools and essentially rape the average person for something they can do on their own. There’s a fine line, but people are horrible with trying to make a big profit of something you can do
DIY guy here. Made my own pan with concrete. Yeah, it was a big job but 8 years later and it's leak free and solid as a rock. Couldn't be prouder. However, if someone was paying me to do it, yeah it would be hella expensive.
Concrete? Did you do a dry-pack and screed? If you put down wet concrete, I guarantee you there's mold underneath the entire thing. Leaks are not the most important part of a shower installation.
@MrDleef I did mine the same way, poured concrete, sloped properly, and water proofed with aquaguard before tiling. It's been 12 years, no leaks, and I have access from below to inspect it.
Not where I come from ,I'm ottawa canada , I charge both the same 400$ for both,I charge the day , that wld be my day, cuz I cldnt lay more until full setting of the cement , if I wanted more that day , I'd work on other shit
Yeah also not around here. The labor for the guy who knows how to do a mud pan well can run past $1k easily. These are just more of the manufacturer responses to an experience shortage across the board.
@@abdulmohrram3634 you charge 400 to a contractor as a sub or to a homeowner as a contractor? And what part of the country? 400 is in the ballpark for what Ive paid out as a gc for a sub to do a mud bed and liner on a shower that size.
@@Ninjump holy shit what state are you in? No way in hell would I pay a grand for a small bed and liner here in TX. But if you're going to do a prefab pan don't you still need a liner??? Never used one like that. I either do an old school mud bed or use a Schluter system. No leaks to come back and fix down the road that way. This looks like wet studs are in this guy's future. Not sure what the big deal is with this guy being against mud beds. It's not that hard.
@@invictusbp1prop143 CA, Bay Area. That's obviously not the price on every job, but say a decent, just below luxury home. Supply and Demand rules out here and with the housing market as hot as it is, specialty trades are making bank! Pre Covid this would be maybe a 650$ job
I agree for a diy person , don’t even bother trying to slope your shower , there’s so many factors that go into it from concrete thicknesss to packing it to the motion of smoothing it , just call my business and we got you .
Having installed both a Schluter and a Wedi shower, Wedi is wayyyyy easier and cost effective. Schluter nickle and dimes you with add-ons. Wedi is straight forward, cut and paste.
Use a Swanstone pan or equl, far more durable and professional than acrylic or fiberglass with gel coat the absolute bottom quality. You used to be able to buy preformed stone pans like a terrazzo pan. They were expensive but heavy like a cast iron tub and they wont squeak
The guy who can do mud has a fairly rare talent. He can and will do great work that is good for 50 plus years. However it you do general construction install a quality pan and use a quality mud board
Agree with your approach- I’ve never understood the traction of filtering years o dead cells and germs through mud s they can resize there for the life of the shower. Weep holes also eventually get clogged- bonded drain way to go with a WATERPROOF shower. But i have my doubts about thin set/foam board , esp if nt on a concrete slab or durability rock on a very robust floor assembly -i mean very robust- I haven’t tried the RRS systems/ board yet but it looks much former than any other, even Wedi. But when you are talking these systems, are they really cheaper than a good mud base ? I think poster has it right-pass teh savings along to client let’s client-let them decide. BUT too many GCs these days cheating for a traditional mud job and using less skilled labor to put in membranes,foam etc.
Been doing tile work for 30 years always the best to mud a shower floor it’s rocksolid, not expensive foam board shower floor That’s where Esperance comes in hand.
That's okay but I like the solid field of a mud shower pan. I had a plumber wanted to set my jacuzzi tub in foam insulation I said fuck you and set it in a big pile of fat mud now it's solid as a rock
I did a mud pan in 2017… still holding up to this day. Perfect slopes no puddling. 44x76 was why … it’s not hard just time consuming. Unless you’ve never held a tool
Telling people what they should and shouldn’t do… If people never took on new challenges because something was deemed “pretty hard” they would never learn how to do anything useful. I’m sure glad previous generations of people didn’t share your stance because we would still be living in the Stone Age otherwise. We’re talking about a shower here, It’s not like you’re putting a man on the moon.
Exactly! This guy saying, "you should NEVER do a mud job" is total BS... It takes skill and I'm sure mistakes will be made but that's how someone develops their skills. Gotta start somewhere and you shouldn't listen to guys like this to deter you from trying...
I don’t disagree with you both, however I did a mud pan on my DIY shower and it’s no joke. Pre made shower pans were not around so I had no choice. I have great skills as I own a custom closet company and am a cabinet maker by trade. I would not do a mud pan again, especially if I had another option. If you screw up you have to chisel it out and start completely over.
Buddy. Not everyone out there has the money to do a traditional mud shower. Let ALONE if they fuck it up and it ends up damaging way more than they started with. He's not pandering to make people lazy, he's being sensical about how to go about a repair. If you can physical and fiscally do it, try mud. If not, that's what this is for. Nothing deep about it.
@@mrchain7 how the hell is a couple bags of dry mix so expensive and difficult? Put the liner in and don't cut it like a bonehead and slope the bed to the drain. It's not rocket surgery and it's not expensive. Those prefab pans are way more expensive.
@@invictusbp1prop143 Lmao, what a condescending mind you have. People are inexperienced, ergo, cant just "simply" cut exactly correct and lay a slope, let alone use a leveling tool. I like how you seemingly know the trade but then minimize it like it's so easy for everyone. That's called being ignorant, bud. Get some perspective, just because you think it's easy doesnt mean everyone else does. There is plenty you arent able to do that someone else would have no problem doing. Once you have experience interacting with people like an actual human you'll understand what I mean.
That prefab pan can actually be easier to f-up then deck mud, because if your subfloor in the shower is not perfectly level from front to back and side to side then that prefab pan won't even drain if you just slap it down with some thinset. Majority of the time if I'm using a prefab, I have to float the floor with thinset first. There is honestly more work involved in your prefab then mortar and liner or mortar with kerdi
Christopher Schuster I'll let u no when I have to tear it out you did2 like that what I'm saying is no it may not leak right away but over time it will bud and cause allot more water damage💯
as someone who has ZERO experience in doing any construction or renos. Just did my first mortar shower floor. If you're handy, it is EASY, it is a FAR CRY from "pretty hard". Put it this way, if you find it hard, you shouldn't be doing it in the first place, it's that easy. Plus... refab pans are wayyyy too expensive for just sloped waterproofed foam
I’m a die hard mud guy. These foam products while good for diy’er are very much a substitute for craftsmanship. They are not even on the same planet as a well built mud pan.
For the current house I'm building, I talked the homeowner out of a prefab pan. Solid mud job of you know what you're doing is cheaper than a prefab that breaks the seal.
This is why I will always install heavy duty one piece fiberglass showers/tubs,I tiled a few showers and I realize I probably did them wrong I’m going to probably re-do the one in my house and feel bad for the few others I did for others as re-model jobs,even a “pro” will probably f-up a shower pan water seems to always find a way through whatever you use to prevent it
I’ve used Tile Redi pans and they are well worth the money for a DIY solution, also have heard of some GC’s doing bulk bathrooms being able to bypass subs and use them as well. Their integrated drain is a game changer.
I've worked with a few of them (not my choice). It'll only will last as long as the silicone. What that pan cost you can just pay for the expensive employee.
As a swede, where building regs for wet rooms are probably the highest in the world, this is painful to watch. I find it astounding that bathrooms don’t have to have a waterproof layer. 100 years ago sure, a bath would be filled once a week and the whole family would share the water but these days every family member showers every day. Tiling, grouting and concrete isn’t waterproof. No one should ever DIY a wet room.
3 types of people. you forgot contractors who work / live in extremely high cost of living areas and therefore speed far outweighs product cost in terms of saving the client money.
I just find pre fab pans last longer than even my own mud jobs because my mud jobs can't account for house shifts over time where pans that are properly secured shift really well. It only makes sense.
I know a lot of people who are old heads who are out of work or underpaid because no one wants to hire them or pay them what they're worth. But the old men will out work most younger guys and their quality of work is so much better too. Also helpers a spoiled and soft these days.
Practice makes perfect. Lots of tutorials online now. Just use your head and triple check everything before applying anything permanent. Its fun to DIY.
This is why I don’t like tile. It’s cold on my feet. The grout always gets discolored. It’s heavy. I prefer acrylic or pvc shower pans. Way easier and convenient one and done install. Oh and it’s always water tight!
@@abdulhai93 yeah I don’t think you want to put heating under tile in a shower in case of a water proofing failure. Shocking results. Yeah large format tile is still cold. Like I said, acrylic and pvc shower pans are better in my opinion. Did I mention you don’t have a higher electric bill from heating your shower tile?
You are correct for the most part . But all it really takes is care and craftsmanship and Patience's. And you better bring a large skill set . This is not for a beginner
mud pans are so much better because of the rubber goes up 6" on the walls, it's an absolute method in case of failure to save catastrophic damage. This sh4tty foam pan caulking fails at the corner and the house is screwed.
This is exactly what I think of when I see a tile setters craftsmanship vs some who “can” lay tile. Sorry but there’s a reason the cost is a lot more and why the work is quite a bit better in the quality of the details
The problem here, and I know you know this, is that you're charging just as much as I charged for the mud work. You're basically capturing the labor costs by selling your product that is basically shit by comparison.
@@bystander15 No... The manufacturer is taking a cut of the installer's labor pay.... Imagine the cost if the installer charged the same price to install this as they charge for a mud pan... it would never fly...! The worker gets screwed again... The customer gets a lessor product (not knowing any better) And the manufacturer rakes in a larger share of the pay....
@@bystander15btw I know you republicans hate criminals and thugs so why have trumps mugshot as if you’re proud of it and using street terms that only thugs use for your username ? Hypocrisy much? Or is everything just a silly ol game to you?
I follow you but no directional trowling on something that is adhered with thinset on wood. How long could that last adhered properly Idk just seems thag most products that are coming out have to undergo couple of years to see how functional they are.
Did DIY whole bathroom watching hours different youtube videos, asking construction friends how to do unclear stuff. Build it 2 years, but i managed. If i had 2 guys for labor, it would be done half the time. With basic expiriance, i can do the same job faster and cheaper now. And dont joke around, most of workers only passed craftsman highschool = its not hard to learn. Cost of materials, and choices of all the different way to build are the biggest problem.
It’s not just less money, how many KBRS bases have you put in? I have a entire album of photos of an 8 foot round. Would’ve never done a mud pan, they’ll always leak if you aren’t hot on maintenance
Mud pans are much cheeper and any time you have a seem you.need to water test for a week which I don t see in the instructions of these prefab shower floors. But skreating is a skill.
I’m sick of these jerks saying that this video is showing a piss poor job! If you’ve never used a toilet auger or a shower handle puller don’t put a comment in the comment section!
I have subcontractors who have a bunch years of tile experience cry about the prefab shower systems rofl. BTW, shower system companies reps sometimes offer a job demo on how to use their system.
My dad is a old school tile guy mud shower pans kinda went out of style in the early 2000s he hasn't done one since probably 2004 I remember doing Lead ones with him as a kid in the 80s
That's where you're wrong buddy.!! I think everyone should do their own work. Whatever it may be. Even if you mess up or not you can always try again. People would take more pride in their homes if they did it all themselves.!!
I only know people who float their own. But this looks way easier. I wonder the longevity of it. Prefab is the future whether people like it or not. Just like crypto and block chain tech is the future like it or not.
Don’t listen to this guy. I did my first mud pan last year and it turned out great. I used a product called goof proof which gives you the slope for the drain.
Yeah let me no how much water leaks out cause that's gonna leak💯🤣🤣 we lay a rubber linner down first it goes. About4 inches up on all sides of the wall then dry pack it
You cant use those pans if the tiles are too small. So prefab don’t work with penny tiles, 1x1, or rocks. Most people don’t know that and install it anyway. Mud is not hard. Just hire me to do the mud only and you can do the rest of the shower. Though I think you should have a professional do showers. Home owners mess up the water proofing so much.
I can't tell you how many showers I've torn out and redone after some DIYer with no skills and no clue made a mold hole out of their shower after watching too much friggin HGTV. Some things you're just better off paying a professional to do. Showers and electrical and any plumbing involving grounds being at the top of that list... Some of the showers I've torn out look like a child did them or were done by someone who didn't understand that water was going to be involved after the install. I've torn out a floor tile and found mildew resistant drywall on the floor...water standing just below the tile...liners cut and just overlapped or only run up the wall far enough to nail it to the studs...and once the homeowner hung hardibacker, put the liner over it, and thunder the tile to the liner. Did you even watch the whole UA-cam video, sir? And its always extra fun to demo when they used really expensive tile over their leakmaster 5000. I try to make them watch the demo when they do that.
@@invictusbp1prop143 I try to look at it as Job security but I also feel bad that so many people fall for the idea that “its not that complicated” when there is soooo much going on with a shower and bathroom that if done wrong can cost you a LOT of money. I charge insane amounts for demo especially if I realize its going to be a nasty one. When I could have just done it for for a couple grand in labor and they would have a shower that lasts them forever. I think a homeowner is fine doing a tub back if they are mildly competent. But walk in showers? Shut it down! Don’t waste your time and the material costs just to end up looking like a fool with even more empty pockets than before.
All the pros will want to argue this! I’m
Not trying to convince the pros. I’m talking to someone who wants to scale their business and someone who wants to DIY their shower! My wife and I just did a live on our channel talking about 💸💸pricing projects 💸💸 if you are struggling with that!
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Do the weep holes work with this type of install? Looking to do this in a bathroom remodel for the first time.
I'm remodeling my bathroom and was wondering what type of white thin set are you using? I have used that gray looking thin set and is more like concrete and I DO NOT LIKE IT WHAT SO EVER!!!!
Pro here, I completely agree with you.
What brand is this?
I did mine. Loved the experience. 22 years later, I still love to shower-- and clean it. I feel very proud I did it.
General contractor here. Absolutely agree. If the budget can bear i will absolutely spend on the outside guy to come in and do a perfect rock-solid mud pan. But having an in-house option my guys can competently install every time is great and gives my client more options.
There will always be a place for fine craftsmanship, just as there is a place for efficiency, standardization, and systems thinking. The trades are so diminished that there is ample room for both without anyone feeling threatened. Running a profitable business needs both at different times.
Contractor around here (MN metro area) quoted us 13k for a 5x7 bathroom reno. Sound reasonable?
@@gsp4prez for a full bathroom Reno I would say that is very reasonable, but I'd also demand client references before handing over that much hard earned money. Also make sure you get a payment schedule with specific progress milestones in writing...
Mud pans are not hard if you've worked with concrete at all.
@@Baaliwooddude acting like a mudbed can't be knocked out in half a day. Who tf calls a mudbed hard?
@Epstein_Isn't_Dead you can do it wrong, but ya they aren't hard.
I had never done a mud job as a woman and a newb I had no issues. I just studied a lot on every aspect of it and everything came out exactly as planned.
Idk why but I always have such a high level of respect for women who tackle massive DIY projects like a bathroom remodel.
My daughter is about a year and a half and I’m really excited to teach her how to do her own projects like that as she’s growing up.
Yeah I'm an electrician and carpenter. Everything is easier than my fellow trades claim
Lol I'm sorry but if you figure out how to do something and research, research and do more research, most stuff isn't "hard". It's just a man speaking... 😅
Prefabs won't work on uneven surfaces is the issue. If the floor is perfect, go for it. Uneven, then atleast add a self leveler. If not, a mud bed is a must....
And after a few months, every time you step on it it'll make a creaking noise from the unlevel ground.
I have done 102 mud jobs there is nothing better.
Am a profesional tile installer and I always made the mud pan at the Job site never use prefabricated pans every job has is own measurements… and I can adjust the level and pitch of the pan how I want it
What is a mud pan? I’ve only worked jobs like this in Swedish and never heard it in English.
@@thatsmeinthepicone made with concrete mud.
i hate ppl telling others to not do something because it's "hard"
They think what they do cant be done.
@@natetuohy2615 No, it's more likely you will fuck it up if it's hard and you haven't done it before. And cost yourself a lot of money in the meantime. He's giving his opinion based on his experience. What's wrong with that?
Deoend how capable the person is. Some people are incapable. Some are beyond capable.
as a DIY'er who will do this once maybe twice in my life while im young, i dont plan on getting enough experience to do the 'hard' so if someone invented something that can make the skill gap lower then i'll take it
@@jaimehewitt365 ok, so you pay 20x the amount of labor and materials instead? It’s just like anything, people take advantage of a skill/tools and essentially rape the average person for something they can do on their own. There’s a fine line, but people are horrible with trying to make a big profit of something you can do
DIY guy here. Made my own pan with concrete. Yeah, it was a big job but 8 years later and it's leak free and solid as a rock. Couldn't be prouder. However, if someone was paying me to do it, yeah it would be hella expensive.
Concrete? Did you do a dry-pack and screed? If you put down wet concrete, I guarantee you there's mold underneath the entire thing. Leaks are not the most important part of a shower installation.
Concrete ain't waterproof
@@rkruts5667 but red guard is
@MrDleef I did mine the same way, poured concrete, sloped properly, and water proofed with aquaguard before tiling. It's been 12 years, no leaks, and I have access from below to inspect it.
Your floor is probably molded, bro. Might wanna check that out.
These pre pitched shower pans actually cost at least double what the traditional pan and mud job cost.
Not where I come from ,I'm ottawa canada , I charge both the same 400$ for both,I charge the day , that wld be my day, cuz I cldnt lay more until full setting of the cement , if I wanted more that day , I'd work on other shit
Yeah also not around here. The labor for the guy who knows how to do a mud pan well can run past $1k easily. These are just more of the manufacturer responses to an experience shortage across the board.
@@abdulmohrram3634 you charge 400 to a contractor as a sub or to a homeowner as a contractor? And what part of the country? 400 is in the ballpark for what Ive paid out as a gc for a sub to do a mud bed and liner on a shower that size.
@@Ninjump holy shit what state are you in? No way in hell would I pay a grand for a small bed and liner here in TX. But if you're going to do a prefab pan don't you still need a liner??? Never used one like that. I either do an old school mud bed or use a Schluter system. No leaks to come back and fix down the road that way. This looks like wet studs are in this guy's future. Not sure what the big deal is with this guy being against mud beds. It's not that hard.
@@invictusbp1prop143 CA, Bay Area. That's obviously not the price on every job, but say a decent, just below luxury home. Supply and Demand rules out here and with the housing market as hot as it is, specialty trades are making bank! Pre Covid this would be maybe a 650$ job
I agree for a diy person , don’t even bother trying to slope your shower , there’s so many factors that go into it from concrete thicknesss to packing it to the motion of smoothing it , just call my business and we got you .
I'll give you thumbs up for soaking the concrete before thinset.
That's not thinset, it's Type 1 and not appropriate for wet areas.
Lol@@newunderthesun7353
Having installed both a Schluter and a Wedi shower, Wedi is wayyyyy easier and cost effective. Schluter nickle and dimes you with add-ons. Wedi is straight forward, cut and paste.
The premade shower pans take a lot less time to install and still have waterproof warranties. If there was no need we wouldn't be talking
Mud job is not that difficult, just a bit time consuming is all.
both
Just use a fiberglass/acrylic pan and be done with it, far far easier for the DIY'er and works just as well!
They look shit and they are also sooooo last millennium
Use a Swanstone pan or equl, far more durable and professional than acrylic or fiberglass with gel coat the absolute bottom quality. You used to be able to buy preformed stone pans like a terrazzo pan. They were expensive but heavy like a cast iron tub and they wont squeak
The guy who can do mud has a fairly rare talent. He can and will do great work that is good for 50 plus years. However it you do general construction install a quality pan and use a quality mud board
If u can't do a mud pan you shouldn't be installing a shower anyways.
Mud is fairly quick if you have experience. You still need waterproofing in the pan and wall. Its an option I guess not for me or my customers.
I've switched from doing a mud pan with liner to a mud pan with a bonded drain. It eliminates a day of work but it is a bit more expensive.
Agree with your approach- I’ve never understood the traction of filtering years o dead cells and germs through mud s they can resize there for the life of the shower. Weep holes also eventually get clogged- bonded drain way to go with a WATERPROOF shower. But i have my doubts about thin set/foam board , esp if nt on a concrete slab or durability rock on a very robust floor assembly -i mean very robust- I haven’t tried the RRS systems/ board yet but it looks much former than any other, even Wedi. But when you are talking these systems, are they really cheaper than a good mud base ? I think poster has it right-pass teh savings along to client let’s client-let them decide. BUT too many GCs these days cheating for a traditional mud job and using less skilled labor to put in membranes,foam etc.
@@johnwhite2576 I still do the mud pan but I use a bonded drain and membrane on top of the mud pan. Muds way cheaper than foam and stronger.
Been doing tile work for 30 years always the best to mud a shower floor it’s rocksolid, not expensive foam board shower floor That’s where Esperance comes in hand.
Do you still require membrane to prevent leaks from the sides ?
Sides get a water proof tape installed with thinset
That's okay but I like the solid field of a mud shower pan. I had a plumber wanted to set my jacuzzi tub in foam insulation I said fuck you and set it in a big pile of fat mud now it's solid as a rock
I did a mud pan in 2017… still holding up to this day. Perfect slopes no puddling. 44x76 was why … it’s not hard just time consuming. Unless you’ve never held a tool
Telling people what they should and shouldn’t do… If people never took on new challenges because something was deemed “pretty hard” they would never learn how to do anything useful. I’m sure glad previous generations of people didn’t share your stance because we would still be living in the Stone Age otherwise. We’re talking about a shower here, It’s not like you’re putting a man on the moon.
Exactly!
This guy saying, "you should NEVER do a mud job" is total BS...
It takes skill and I'm sure mistakes will be made but that's how someone develops their skills.
Gotta start somewhere and you shouldn't listen to guys like this to deter you from trying...
I don’t disagree with you both, however I did a mud pan on my DIY shower and it’s no joke. Pre made shower pans were not around so I had no choice. I have great skills as I own a custom closet company and am a cabinet maker by trade. I would not do a mud pan again, especially if I had another option. If you screw up you have to chisel it out and start completely over.
Buddy. Not everyone out there has the money to do a traditional mud shower. Let ALONE if they fuck it up and it ends up damaging way more than they started with. He's not pandering to make people lazy, he's being sensical about how to go about a repair.
If you can physical and fiscally do it, try mud. If not, that's what this is for. Nothing deep about it.
@@mrchain7 how the hell is a couple bags of dry mix so expensive and difficult? Put the liner in and don't cut it like a bonehead and slope the bed to the drain. It's not rocket surgery and it's not expensive. Those prefab pans are way more expensive.
@@invictusbp1prop143 Lmao, what a condescending mind you have. People are inexperienced, ergo, cant just "simply" cut exactly correct and lay a slope, let alone use a leveling tool. I like how you seemingly know the trade but then minimize it like it's so easy for everyone. That's called being ignorant, bud. Get some perspective, just because you think it's easy doesnt mean everyone else does. There is plenty you arent able to do that someone else would have no problem doing. Once you have experience interacting with people like an actual human you'll understand what I mean.
Hot mop is bullet proof, kinda stinky for a few hours, but going out of "style" as building techniques advance.
That prefab pan can actually be easier to f-up then deck mud, because if your subfloor in the shower is not perfectly level from front to back and side to side then that prefab pan won't even drain if you just slap it down with some thinset. Majority of the time if I'm using a prefab, I have to float the floor with thinset first. There is honestly more work involved in your prefab then mortar and liner or mortar with kerdi
Watch the video 🤦🏽♂️
Actually it is pretty easy to do. We did ours last spring. No leases, good craftsmanship, took 6 days…. But it’s nuce
I do mud job in all my projects doesn’t matter if they’re bigger and smaller. I do it myself. There is a reason why 💯
I'm just curious about that. Double seepage drain normal. The Pan allows the water to weep. How does that work
That's bullshit. I've done 2 homemade mud shower pans. Absolutely no issues!
Christopher Schuster I'll let u no when I have to tear it out you did2 like that what I'm saying is no it may not leak right away but over time it will bud and cause allot more water damage💯
It's not that hard . You won't have a problem if you prep right and get a hot mop lol.
as someone who has ZERO experience in doing any construction or renos. Just did my first mortar shower floor. If you're handy, it is EASY, it is a FAR CRY from "pretty hard". Put it this way, if you find it hard, you shouldn't be doing it in the first place, it's that easy. Plus... refab pans are wayyyy too expensive for just sloped waterproofed foam
I’m a die hard mud guy. These foam products while good for diy’er are very much a substitute for craftsmanship. They are not even on the same planet as a well built mud pan.
The lines have to go WIDTH and definitely not length or have a lovely swirl in it. The air needs to escape so what you've done is trap the air.
For the current house I'm building, I talked the homeowner out of a prefab pan. Solid mud job of you know what you're doing is cheaper than a prefab that breaks the seal.
That's a great system.
However, I use PVC liners and concrete of 5,000 psi.
I rather do it myself than listen to anybody tell me i cant do it because its too hard to do yourself!
This is why I will always install heavy duty one piece fiberglass showers/tubs,I tiled a few showers and I realize I probably did them wrong I’m going to probably re-do the one in my house and feel bad for the few others I did for others as re-model jobs,even a “pro” will probably f-up a shower pan water seems to always find a way through whatever you use to prevent it
My guy outsourced it to a Mason with 30-40 years experience. We were both impressed with the final product
I’ve used Tile Redi pans and they are well worth the money for a DIY solution, also have heard of some GC’s doing bulk bathrooms being able to bypass subs and use them as well. Their integrated drain is a game changer.
I've worked with a few of them (not my choice). It'll only will last as long as the silicone. What that pan cost you can just pay for the expensive employee.
As a swede, where building regs for wet rooms are probably the highest in the world, this is painful to watch. I find it astounding that bathrooms don’t have to have a waterproof layer. 100 years ago sure, a bath would be filled once a week and the whole family would share the water but these days every family member showers every day. Tiling, grouting and concrete isn’t waterproof. No one should ever DIY a wet room.
Some are tired of fabricating the custom pans, I push for the prefabs
On my opinion the best way to do shower pan is the hot mooe..I lay tile for 35 years here at Los Angeles California..not othe way
3 types of people. you forgot contractors who work / live in extremely high cost of living areas and therefore speed far outweighs product cost in terms of saving the client money.
Speed,?! I can mud a shower in 45 min.
I just find pre fab pans last longer than even my own mud jobs because my mud jobs can't account for house shifts over time where pans that are properly secured shift really well. It only makes sense.
I know a lot of people who are old heads who are out of work or underpaid because no one wants to hire them or pay them what they're worth. But the old men will out work most younger guys and their quality of work is so much better too. Also helpers a spoiled and soft these days.
If you consider that to be very difficult, you need a new trade. My 14 year old son watched me do our master bath, then did the guest bath on his own.
Practice makes perfect. Lots of tutorials online now. Just use your head and triple check everything before applying anything permanent. Its fun to DIY.
This is why I don’t like tile. It’s cold on my feet. The grout always gets discolored. It’s heavy. I prefer acrylic or pvc shower pans. Way easier and convenient one and done install. Oh and it’s always water tight!
You can get in floor heating, and now they make large tiles so no very few grout lines
@@abdulhai93 yeah I don’t think you want to put heating under tile in a shower in case of a water proofing failure. Shocking results. Yeah large format tile is still cold. Like I said, acrylic and pvc shower pans are better in my opinion. Did I mention you don’t have a higher electric bill from heating your shower tile?
You are correct for the most part . But all it really takes is care and craftsmanship and Patience's. And you better bring a large skill set . This is not for a beginner
mud pans are so much better because of the rubber goes up 6" on the walls, it's an absolute method in case of failure to save catastrophic damage. This sh4tty foam pan caulking fails at the corner and the house is screwed.
Yes but getting th e comers done well up six inches a problem -when you slice and seal
Your work is excellent, only drain hole should be in the corner.
Only thing with that is drain hole location is not gonna be in the rite place on a custom shower. Im sure there are ways around that though
What I really hate is when the contractor chooses to use shower pans because it's easier but then passes on the extra cost to the client.
Preach brother-ThATS what sucks about this industry-not the manufacturer’s or new products.
This is exactly what I think of when I see a tile setters craftsmanship vs some who “can” lay tile. Sorry but there’s a reason the cost is a lot more and why the work is quite a bit better in the quality of the details
Most are "tile installers", and not tile setters. Tile installer can do flat work well, don't ask them to do anything more than that.
Retards. 😂
Mud jobs are not hard they just take a while to make sure you do it right, ive been mudding with my mom since i was like 9
I have to agree with that I've tried to do a few of those in the past and I won't touch them anymore because it's a mess every time.
The problem here, and I know you know this, is that you're charging just as much as I charged for the mud work. You're basically capturing the labor costs by selling your product that is basically shit by comparison.
less labor same price, makes easier money
@@bystander15 No... The manufacturer is taking a cut of the installer's labor pay....
Imagine the cost if the installer charged the same price to install this as they charge for a mud pan... it would never fly...!
The worker gets screwed again...
The customer gets a lessor product (not knowing any better)
And the manufacturer rakes in a larger share of the pay....
@@bystander15btw I know you republicans hate criminals and thugs so why have trumps mugshot as if you’re proud of it and using street terms that only thugs use for your username ? Hypocrisy much? Or is everything just a silly ol game to you?
Can you send the link to buy it, thank you
>the employee is going to be more expensive
Okay so instead of doing it the right way, you went the cheap way. I'm starting to sense a trend with you
What's wrong with pre fab?
@@intensitydigital entirely unrepairable, ecologically irresponsible, and it looks like shit
Bro he’s a one man army lol
@@greengoat5654 do you even know what the fuck you are talking about or are you talking out your ass?
@@glock1inthetop45 I'm a tradesman, I know what I'm talking about
I follow you but no directional trowling on something that is adhered with thinset on wood. How long could that last adhered properly
Idk just seems thag most products that are coming out have to undergo couple of years to see how functional they are.
Mute point since there is no rubber liner going up the sides of the walls in this video
If the mud pan was so perfect the prefab polystyrene Schluter and the like would not be in the marketplace.
DIY'ers do your thing DONT LISTEN
“I’m not trying to convince the pros. I’m talking to someone who wants to scale their business…” lmao makes sense
Did DIY whole bathroom watching hours different youtube videos, asking construction friends how to do unclear stuff. Build it 2 years, but i managed. If i had 2 guys for labor, it would be done half the time. With basic expiriance, i can do the same job faster and cheaper now. And dont joke around, most of workers only passed craftsman highschool = its not hard to learn. Cost of materials, and choices of all the different way to build are the biggest problem.
It’s not just less money, how many KBRS bases have you put in? I have a entire album of photos of an 8 foot round. Would’ve never done a mud pan, they’ll always leak if you aren’t hot on maintenance
Mud pans are much cheeper and any time you have a seem you.need to water test for a week which I don t see in the instructions of these prefab shower floors. But skreating is a skill.
Some prefab shower kits are more expensive than hiring a pro to install traditional shower base pan. 6 to1 or half dozen to the other
What about if we need a custom size that the manufacturer doesn’t supply? Mud pan it is
I’m sick of these jerks saying that this video is showing a piss poor job! If you’ve never used a toilet auger or a shower handle puller don’t put a comment in the comment section!
I have subcontractors who have a bunch years of tile experience cry about the prefab shower systems rofl. BTW, shower system companies reps sometimes offer a job demo on how to use their system.
My dad is a old school tile guy mud shower pans kinda went out of style in the early 2000s he hasn't done one since probably 2004 I remember doing Lead ones with him as a kid in the 80s
Where would u suggest getting a pre made shower pan? Can they put the drain in custom locations?
That's where you're wrong buddy.!! I think everyone should do their own work. Whatever it may be. Even if you mess up or not you can always try again. People would take more pride in their homes if they did it all themselves.!!
Not if the dimension doesn't fit that of the premade one
Mud pans just promote mold for the homeowners and cost more in manhours than dropping a $600 KBRS pan
I only know people who float their own. But this looks way easier. I wonder the longevity of it. Prefab is the future whether people like it or not. Just like crypto and block chain tech is the future like it or not.
Which prefab pan is that you are using?
I always do the drywall first before setting my pan lol
?????
@@kneppy10 🤣🤣🤣🤣 I'm dead dry wall before pan
I would love to learn how to install such a shower pan.
Don’t listen to this guy. I did my first mud pan last year and it turned out great. I used a product called goof proof which gives you the slope for the drain.
Speaker: “pretty hard, easy to mess up.”
Same speaker: “training someone on these panels is quite easy, anyone can do it.”
He was referring to a mud job not the pre fab shower pan
You misunderstood him
So you say DIY it's too hard but easy to train someone in? Doesn't make sense.
He meant that DIY a mud pan will be hard, but the prefab pan is easy for both DIY and easier to train someone in installing.
You; How stupid are your
this guy; yes
Mud job was actually pretty easy.... just did one... i mean, it's hard work, but it's not HARD work
Whats the downside of premade pans?
You still need to float it to bring it up to height for the mosaic floor or did you calculate that already?
No you don’t? The drain screws up and down so you can adjust it right before you set the floor
Yeah let me no how much water leaks out cause that's gonna leak💯🤣🤣 we lay a rubber linner down first it goes. About4 inches up on all sides of the wall then dry pack it
True
He must put the plastic layer then compact little wet cement.
what kind of shower pan is that. most suppliers want $300to$400 for a shower pan.
Just did one with a KBRS pre fab shower pan, it worked out great.
Bang! Love KBRS
In Ireland thats all we use, its so much quicker , but wouldn't but it in like that
Where do I buy a prefabricated shower pan?
It’s hard to beat a good old fashioned mud bed.
Mud shower pans aren’t that hard. If hiring a kid might not be advisable,but actually pretty simple
You cant use those pans if the tiles are too small. So prefab don’t work with penny tiles, 1x1, or rocks. Most people don’t know that and install it anyway. Mud is not hard. Just hire me to do the mud only and you can do the rest of the shower. Though I think you should have a professional do showers. Home owners mess up the water proofing so much.
I can't tell you how many showers I've torn out and redone after some DIYer with no skills and no clue made a mold hole out of their shower after watching too much friggin HGTV. Some things you're just better off paying a professional to do. Showers and electrical and any plumbing involving grounds being at the top of that list... Some of the showers I've torn out look like a child did them or were done by someone who didn't understand that water was going to be involved after the install. I've torn out a floor tile and found mildew resistant drywall on the floor...water standing just below the tile...liners cut and just overlapped or only run up the wall far enough to nail it to the studs...and once the homeowner hung hardibacker, put the liner over it, and thunder the tile to the liner. Did you even watch the whole UA-cam video, sir? And its always extra fun to demo when they used really expensive tile over their leakmaster 5000. I try to make them watch the demo when they do that.
@@invictusbp1prop143 I try to look at it as Job security but I also feel bad that so many people fall for the idea that “its not that complicated” when there is soooo much going on with a shower and bathroom that if done wrong can cost you a LOT of money. I charge insane amounts for demo especially if I realize its going to be a nasty one. When I could have just done it for for a couple grand in labor and they would have a shower that lasts them forever.
I think a homeowner is fine doing a tub back if they are mildly competent. But walk in showers? Shut it down! Don’t waste your time and the material costs just to end up looking like a fool with even more empty pockets than before.
Did my own Mudd job super easy never had any issues,
Do you have the whole video on this ?
Where you get cement board or pan
Where did u buy that? Where's the liner?
Does it work if the floor is slightly bigger then pan? Say an inch wider?