Why I am Not a Nationalist
Вставка
- Опубліковано 6 вер 2024
- Our website: www.justandsinn...
This video addresses the issue of Christian nationalism. In particular, I address the issue of nationalism, and if such a perspective is the only one that conservatives can take.
Can confirm that my life has been much happier since I stopped paying attention to politics, turning instead to my relationship with my wife, creative endeavors, and hobbies. I used to spend hours a day on Twitter wasting my time, but about a year or so ago (maybe longer?) I just deleted Twitter and never got back on. My life has only improved since then and I feel much more like I can do the things I'm meant to do in life.
Nationalism is not necessarily opposed to localism. I view it as a heirerchy of priority: God > family > local community > nation > globe. Most American nationalists are nationalist in the context of foreign affairs, rejecting globalism in favor of national interests. They don't believe that the nation takes priority over the local community, hence the strong emphasis on state's rights. Basically, I think you're applying a definition for nationalism that doesn't apply to the modern Amercian context.
The hierarchy is absolutely correct. There are spheres of vocational importance that move from the local to the nation then international. If what you mean by nationalism is merely that the national should be prioritized over the international, I have no issue. My concern is when national loyalties divorce people from local responsibilities and duties.
@@DrJordanBCooperthanks for the reply. I think we agree a lot more than we disagree
it's one thing if nationalism is just used in the context of opposing globalism but that's more of a recent trend. Historically nationalism in the American context is something much darker and antithetical to genuine conservatism
What does putting God above your family imply?
The question of localism was settled in 1865.
Spoiler: There are no "local" citizens.
Really good point. I would say that it was justified in that instance because of a higher duty to God’s view of the human person, but that really was a turning point in localism. If we look at how many social issues are being shoved down people’s throats now it’s hard not to think that something was lost as well.
You should put a clip in the corner of you doing Yo-Yo tricks to improve viewer retention
“Every tribe, tongue, and nation” implies that people are still recognizable by nation
Sure. I didn't deny the existence of nations.
That's just a reference, and not some sort of divine branding. Also, nation can refer to a geographical region or a region ruled by some established, coercive agency (government.) The geographical makes more sense in such scriptures.
Even today, people usually use the nation names synonymously with geography, which is why people wouldn't think of Guam when saying America. Some parts of the world have terms to distinguish between the concepts, such as Great Britain, the United Kingdom, and England meaning different things with The UK being the weird political one that is more ambiguous.
@@litigioussociety4249 Either the translation is incorrect, or you are using the term incorrectly and applying an anachronistic bent to it to make it seem more ambiguous than it does in context of scripture. The particular British example you are using is generally irrelevant in any case.
Wow, people are raging commenting on a 25 minute video only 2 minutes after it is posted. I guess this hits a soft spot
When I get triggered it's time to double down on my love for Christ.
@@nicholasmelzian3908 He is the absolute pinnacle of amazing. Never ever ever lose sight of Him!
Well stated. I agree completely. As a 70-years-old Christian I concluded long ago that I cannot change national politics and my efforts should best help me love my neighbor. I can best do that locally, even right next door, and in my home with my family.
The odd thing is in the U.S. the Christian founders weren’t nationalists. Their primary loyalties were with their local communities scripture teaches us to cherish, not some abstract nation based on negative rights that modern “conservatives” never shut up about.
erm... also, they weren't really all that Christian. I think there were more deists than Christians in that lot.
@@simontemplar3359 that’s another myth. Roger Sherman, Oliver Ellsworth, Samuel Adams, John Hancock, John Dickinson, George Mason, Patrick Henry, Nathaniel Macon, James Jackson, Charles Carol, John Witherspoon, James Iredell, Thomas Sumter, John Lansing, and many others were all devout Christians and many of them were extremely significant and influential thinkers who have been forgotten because like I said modern “conservatives” are more interested in promoting some abstract nation that doesn’t fit with what the founders actually believed.
The only founders we really have certainty were genuine deists were Ben Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Paine, and James Wilson.
@@bradleymarshall5489, love it. So true.
I might clarify by saying that Jefferson probably became more of a Unitarian along with John Adams. He is critical of miracles in some of his letters based upon a mechanistic view of causation in the world. But later also comes to criticize his early interest in David Hume.
Franklin was influenced by deism in his late teens. Latter makes statements that indicate a broader understanding of providence, and seemed to have had some Unitarian leanings at least and attended some meetings in England when he was there.
Thomas Paine became an actual atheist after coming back from France and was not associated with by the founders because of it.
All fascinating stuff!
Good thing I'm not american
That might explain that much of the early court records are dedicated to child support.
"Who is this child's daddy?"
Some things never change.
It's quite a colossal mistake to see nationalism as an enemy of localism.
Even if, historically, Romantic nationalism opposed local/parochial bonds, you don't create new local bonds by opposing one of the only remaining bonds of somewhat local loyalty (the nation)... especially when such bonds are being attacked/undermined by globalist movements.
There is a reason self-described Christian Nationalists are the ones out there creating local communities.
I don't think that's what's being said here. In a nutshell I think he's saying the modern conception of nationalism per se, is having a significant impact on the local level, and it does not need to be so.
@@normanyoung8553 then you just not understand what Cooper means by nationalism because historically nationalism is the death of localism
@@voyager7 I agree with your thinking here.
I love America! But I love my family, my friends, my church, my town, my county, all more. And Jesus more than all of them. There is a proper hierarchy. Seek ye first the Kingdom of God. Love for your country needs to be in its proper place within that hierarchy. God bless you all.
I thought this was very well thought out and interesting. I had just taken the side of nationalism because I hate globalism, but localism seems very attractive to me now.
@@everettpeabody8024 ya people don’t realize that there’s a localist alternative that’s actually more grounded in historic conservatism
Nationalism>globalism,
provincialism>nationalism,
community>province,
family>community,
No King but Christ.
Why do you “have” to be any of those choices. None of it has to do with Christianity.
@@audreydakin8130it approaches how we make ethical and political decisions, it is theological.
Reasoned discourse, accurate definitions, actual principles? Thank for making this video and standing for sanity in the current online discussion.
I am not a Christian nor a Nationalist but I support Christian Nationalism over pretty much every other system that has a chance to succeed in my country.
I think every thinking American who is grappling with these questions could do a lot worse than to read Tocqueville's 'Democracy in America'. (It should be required reading anyway, because it remains a deeply astute and relevant survey of American political life.) There's also a library full of scholarship on nationalism from around the world, particularly Europe and the New World, and it is very much a double-edged sword. For what it's worth, I don't think nationalism can work in the US, which is why you've got a federal system, and within the states, localism is to be encouraged as strongly as possible, which is what impressed Tocqueville when he was touring and writing about the US. That's the best way to distribute and exercise democratic political power in a country as large as the US. If 'America First' means you must be 'American First' at home, that's a pretty good formula for ensuring all manner of small communities suffer even more neglect and die and slow and painful death. It'll also cause your cities to grow in the long run too, and I hate to tell you, that will not be pretty. Just my tuppence worth from Ireland. Good luck over there! God knows you need it at the moment!
I appreciate your thoughts! I'd certainly echo the Tocqueville recommendation.
@@DrJordanBCooper You're welcome. I appreciate your content! Best, L.
I want my family to succeed. Does that make me a nationalist? Remember the nations come from families.
Thank you. As a Christian who definitely ain't a nationalist and I live in the South and nationalism is really rampant down here.
@@user-hm4od3wu1z ironically the best critiques of American nationalism have almost exclusively come from Southerners or even people with southern roots like Robert Nisbet who Cooper mentions in the video
Stop lying
Thank you very much! :)
I find it always so refreshing to hear about a premodern (and therefore also prenationalistic) conservatism as these things are so often mingled with each other.
As one who long ago once self-identified as a "nationalist", I think your assessment is spot on.
Well, are you a patriot? How would you distinguish that from nationalism?
By use of a dictionary.
I don't believe that Patriotism and nationalism are identical.
@@lukeunderwood163 What dictionary?
I checked Merriam-Webster. The two words listed as the strongest synonyms for Patriot are "loyalist" and "nationalist". The sole synonym listed for patriotism is "nationalism".
Interesting, this isn't reflected on the definitions of nationalist, yet if you click through to the thesaurus page, we still see remnants of the older definition, where sense 2 is "as in patriotic" and "patriotic" is the first synonym listed. Similarly, nationalism has "superpatriotism" as a listed synonym on the definition page, but clicking through to the thesaurus shows "patriotism" as the only strongly relevant synonym, and it appears in both of its senses listed on that page, "as in patriotism" and "as in devotion".
I noticed in the last 10 years there's been a big effort to redefine "nationalism" as the big bad bogeyman, and the hand edited dictionary definitions reflect that. But the thesaurus is in large part generated by machine learning and hasn't received the same redefinition treatment.
Anyway, there is clearly a link between those two ideas. That even comes through on a dictionary like MW that has been criticized for being quick to edit definitions to fit how the left has started using a word mere days before.
It's true that many nationalists hold to different definitions. Christian nationalists should define terms from Scripture. The Bible doesn't define nationalism directly, but it does define "nation" by common ancestry in places like Genesis 10, Deuteronomy 2. Scripture also distinguishes states from nations. The nearest Biblical notion I can see for “nationalism” is just the the godly prioritization of one's own ancestral nation with regard to duty, honor, and natural affection. This kind of Christian nationalism does not require incessant politics, unless the state is adversarial to it. Our current multicultural system of clepto-democracy with a wide-open voting franchise fosters constant political wrangling of the masses, which I agree is not healthy. Hopefully Christians can begin to think more Biblically on these matters.
The terminological battlefield has been neglected for too long and this shows. Terms just get hijacked to the point where they lose any semblance of what they originally meant.
I think there's a tendency in all of this to neglect the spiritual life. The apparently closer connections of past communities can easily be romanticized. As they can and are, today.
I remember speaking with a Chinese girl 30 years ago and complimenting her on their strong sense of family unity and care. However, her response was basically that they had no choice and that there was nothing wonderful about it.
Hence, among the many ways human beings are bizarre is the tendency to look for quick fixes in external things. Whereas, the Gospel points us to Christ and His work within. As well as, the kind of soulful solidarity that comes through communion with the faithful as a result of oneness in the Spirit.
I agree that there is more interesting stuff to talk about than politics. Like any argument, politics can be based on assumptions and I rather have a philosophical conversation about those assumptions that lead to their political ideologies.
Focusing more on the local community is very important. Parties on both the left and right could benefit by shifting their emphasis onto this.
This was fascinating. I studied political science in grad school as well as for my undergrad work. The distinction between state and nation is within the first week in the International Relations curriculum. Some of the comments I'm reading are pretty sad. "Cool. Watch the video." is brilliant. The only thing I took issue with was when you mentioned the millennials as the children of the boomers but left out my people: gen X. 😳 I jest.
I have nothing to add other than I enjoyed this video and I really appreciate how you take these difficult things on. I wonder how much of that constant political stress is the result of the 24 hour news cycle plus social media. Seems like that keeps us divided, angry, and scared but manages to line the pockets of corporations who benefit from causing and exacerbating chaos. The best answer in my opinion is to shut the internet off and get out in the world. Something along the lines of "think globally; act locally."
Even with a MA in political science, I think politics is gross. I was bummed to see the comments from people who clearly didn't watch the whole thing but decided to accuse you of being whatever their bogeyman of the day is. Ultimately, it comes down to this: we cannot look down on others when we are lying at the feet of Jesus. He's my everything. No political movement has ever convinced me that their way is better than His way.
What might one do who desires to capture a localized connection to family history, but cannot really move back to where their family lived for generations? My family has lived in New York for generations, but moving there would be quite impossible for me at the moment.
I am not impressed with this video from Dr. Cooper. He say he is not a nationalist and his models for nationalism are the French Revolution and 20th Century Germany. How about the United States for most of its history? The United States was, from its revolution, highly nationalistic. And this did not impede the building of strong families or communities or churches. It did not prevent intermediary institutions, but allowed them to thrive. It had people interested in politics as free citizens, but not to excess. It had healthy people with purpose and relationships. It had people who believed they needed to bring Christian authority into the public realm without expecting the state to possess all power or fix all their problems. In short, I don't understand why Dr. Cooper chooses for himself the most unhealth and anti-Christian nationalist models to define his own views on nationalism.
@@lightningfromaclearbluesky8344 what history are you reading because the best of the founders were localists who saw nationalism as a path to empire and loss of virtue. He relying on the views of Burkean conservatives like Nisbet and Mel Bradford far from making things up himself
@@bradleymarshall5489 "We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."
The effort to make localism (or investment in one's community) and nationalism into opposing principles is the problem here. One can be both. The Founding Fathers were both. Most people who call themselves Christian Nationalists are both. We do not need to accept a false dichotomy.
@@blurry_22 do you have any idea how much contention there was over the phrase “we the people” in that? Patrick Henry used it as a way to argue against ratification. If you actually read the debate or even go past the preamble it comes very clear the founders intention was always to seek protection of their local communities which for many was the reason they seceded in the first place. You can be patriotic and value one’s community but you can’t advocate for centralization and local community.
What's the term for being a Confessional Lutheran who served in the combat arms and seems to be hated by his government? I must be that.
Christ follower is the term
Several Roman soldiers became Christian converts. Did Jesus condemn saving soldiers?
@cybersi1392 I have rescued a good number of people. Spend some more time reading scripture. It will be eddifying.
If you served in the military I'd call you a mercenary, but that's just me.
You are not hated by those who were genuine when they swore to serve and uphold the constitution of the US. I am a vet too
I am a Christian, who views the world through a few different lenses. I am also no nationalist. Politically, I would lean towards left libertarian, autonomist, anarchist, libertarian socialist, etc., but like most people, I have my liberal and conservative sides too. It seems difficult for human beings to be just one thing. I loved this video! It is thoughtful and insightful. I look forward to your article in The Conservative Reformer. 😊
Thank you for your analysis of this topic. Thoroughly enjoyed it. More, please.
Im in favor of every country being a Christian nationalist nation.
Your observation of internet nationalism is good, and the solution is usually impossible. I'm in the UK, and the demographic change in smaller towns like mine post-COVID has been astounding. Where exactly am I supposed to go? This is a wider discussion, and it isn't really a question to ask from you. Your theological content is really useful and tending to the question while ignoring everything else is harmful. What I really hope is that you didn't participate in the stone choir doxx.
Well thought out case, but I disagree with the nationalism being anti-local because of Germany and Russia in the period between 1850 and 1950. Both were a collections of many smaller states within that time period, Going from dozens of states to one state requires a focus on the oneness of the people thats a large variable that is not considered enough. I think you put too much weight on the negative connotations instead of just the weight and reality. Too much focus on locality could have a negative effect, it’s the elephant in the room of your case. If nationalism is too collective and is dangerous, does focusing on the local cause too much tribalism which is dangerous, This was the 100 years war and the 30 years war.
The term Christian Nationalism (kristennasjonalisme) was in use here in Norway 20 years ago. Back then we were told Christian Nationalism was scary, extremist, and foreign (American).
Reading through the comments after watching the video, two things are obvious.
The first is how many people either didn’t watch the video, or who could grasp the clear message present if they did watch.
The second is, your point at the end, about perpetually involved in politics, is obviously proven.
This is brilliant analysis, Jordan. Thank you.
Nationalism often falls into idolatry.
No american flag should be in Church
I don't like national flags in the sanctuary, though I understand why such a thing became common.
To my mind nationalism is fine if is rooted in a Catholic foundation like Italy or Poland for example, otherwise it can fall into masonry believe pretty quick.
@jgnogueira whether people like it or not, the Freemasons are inextricably tied into Protestant Christian nationalism in the heritage of this country. You either like the WASPs or you don't -- you don't have a American-Christian hegemony without them. Catholics react to Freemasonry the way that Protestants react to claimed Jesuit conspiracy.
I totally agree. I am a Gen Z baby and this is definitely a problem with me... I mean... right now I am supposed to be writing something for my church, but here I am watching a video about politics on UA-cam lol. Great video as always!
Excellent post! Thank you for your thoughts and time you put into this.
The Kinists are an extremely fringe group.
One of the things I am starting to hear from people who seem to have a nationalistic attitude is saying they wish voting would be compulsory in the USA, thinking they could change everything if the entire population were forced to participate. But that would be a violation of the First Amendment.
I really needed to hear this, thank you Dr Cooper
Interesting
Jesus is King of heaven and earth. CREC takes that seriously.
It's time for other denominations to start taking that seriously.
There are other reasons to use the word nationalism besides differentiation from internationalism. Like making sure your political program takes the concerns of all Americans into account. Is American not a nationality? If you don't focus on the nation, you focus on tribes, and we certainly don't want tribalism any more than we want internationalism. I get the impression that the word nationalism just gives people the heebie-jeebies because of WW2, and that is a shame because it makes us slaves of the past. Yoram Hazony is right to revitalize it and disassociate it from you know who.
I think you have misunderstood Christian nationalism, especially as it relates to localism. However, this is likely not your fault. Christian Nationalist has become such a broad term, as you rightfully point out, that it hardly carries any meaningful connotations. I wish there could be more honest conversations around Christian nationalism, but as of right now, it is woefully misunderstood. God bless.
Sure, rabid retoric in favor or against.
Good stuff. I resonated with the point about not over-focusing on national politics since it's impossible to have any effect on that huge scale as only one person. Pay attention, sure. But focusing locally instead is bound to make folks happier since they can have some actual meaningful effect at the local level. I used to spend a lot of time adding my infinitesimally small voice to the great din over national politics but eventually realized the futility of doing so, and how that was making me unhappy in general. I jumped off Twitter and greatly scaled back on Facebook and other SM and I noticed how much better life got when I did that.
Appreciate this video very much! In Todays America (and World), Terms, Words and Definitions get changed -- hijacked -- mis-represented so often for various "Agendas" that it is Very Important to keep everything in perspective and really watch what we say. God Bless!
Well said. Thank you.
Valuable thoughts! Thank you!
I'm not a nationalist (as you pointed out, whatever that means-the term is really nebulous)
The term however, is used very often as a pejorative to discredit and malign Christians who vote conservative. And sadly, the term is often used by political liberals in the church who want to justify voting for pro abortion politcs.
We are very close to a Presidential election, so of course national politics is at the fore. I think we all can think simultaneously about national, regional, and local issues. **And we can love and serve our neighbors in all 3 arenas. ***
The problem with national politics is this: we currently have American ideals of freedom, independence from government control, etc vs. Marxist political ideology which seeks to transform our society. Do we want freedom and self-reliance? Or do we want socialism, Marxism, islam, and every other non-western political philosophy that the left is trying to import into our country?
You are solving for the problem of feeling isolated. Feeling isolated comes from not serving others and not seeking to be a friend. You can do that wherever you are, you dont have to be within 30 miles of your birthplace for that.
My point is not that we shouldn't try to protect our nation. My concerns are the same as yours.
The nation state is the best tool, if not the only tool to control international finance capitalism.
If the nation state doesn't control international finance capitalism, international finance capitalism will control the nation state.
Why stop at the national level, if the local economy doesn’t supercede national economy the local polity will be controlled by the national.
What's been a little disemphasized here is the ethnic aspect of nationalism which can become very major in certain parts of the world. You did mention the nation-state conflation but quite briefly. You also left out the worst consequence of Nationalism, that being nationalist tensions and wars (rebellions, invasions, revolutions) which cause a lot of unnecessary death
20:38 I practically agree 100%.
It’d be way healthier for the public discourse.
Actually, to make a video like this, one should clearly delineate between the half dozen or so divergent varieties of Christian Nationalism. Certain ones ought never be embraced by believers and others ought never be rejected.
Some are clearly localist in their emphases, working hard to develop community and rebuild institutions.
Best I can tell, the glue that holds them all together is an opposition to the hegemony of postmodern secularism. (They could no longer sustain a belief in the myth of neutrality.)
Yeah, which is again why I just don't like the term. I'm sure that there are Christian Nationalists who are not nationalists in the 19th century sense, but I don't think they should then be using the term. It's worthless. Let's talk about issues instead of labels.
@@DrJordanBCooper Labels are useful though.
One can't blame the bona fide Christians who want a Christian nation and aren't rebranded white nationalists for wanting something to distinguish themselves from "America is just a (secular) idea faux conservatives, secular nationalists, etc"
Whenever you delve into politics it feels like you are reacting to a very regional (or local) straw man. Politics spoils your message more deeply than you realize and it’s unnecessary. Stick with philosophy/theology.
When half of the conversations on the internet about theology are about "Christian Nationalism," I think it would be quite irresponsible not to delve into the issue.
While I do dislike the label "nationalist" due to extensive baggage you point out in the video, I will disagree on the premise. I do believe that the nation, however defined, ought to come before the local as well as to some extent the individual as far as it agrees with Christian ethics. The nation and the state also really should be seen as one and the same. I am firmly against states which rest on some other basis and traditional empires (AH, etc.).
He's not a pro-natalist either, so it checks out.
What do you mean by this? How does advocacy of a proper distinction and place between citizenship in a nation and the effort of living at the local level, have anything to do with pro-natalism?
@voyager7 it doesn't. He's just making things up like he always does.
@@voyager7 Notice he never denies not being pro-natalist.
Nations are families writ large. They are not propositional civic units.
If he's not a nationalist, perhaps it's because he cannot grasp the idea of the nation as extended family.
@@Catholic-Perennialist He neither needs to confirm nor deny a position, the definition of which you arbitrarily create and impose. The "nation" as an extended family may be so in a certain manner and limit of speaking, but what then of those outside the nation? Are they not family because you construct the nationalistic limits on the extent of a given citizenship? I don't deny that nations are things or are defined in part by their citizens or have their place in our world (as I suspect Dr Cooper would agree with). The whole point above is that nationalism is becoming something it shouldn't be, and is having a tremendous toll and expense on other things that not only are part of normal healthy living, but which also otherwise play a crucial role in human self-definition.
You seem like you'd argue with him saying H2O is typically referred to as "water".
@@Catholic-PerennialistAre you okay man?
Great advice! I most think people obsessed with politics are more interested in power than positive change. People who complain about problems in faraway Washington D.C., while ignoring the problems in their own local communities.
Yes. People need to quit acting like Christians may only engage in society through these hyper-authoritarian Prussian unionist style dictatorships. Agrarian Hyperlocalism is how we’re going to make society more Christian. Love your work as a traditional Ukrainian Catholic.
Godspeed,
-Patrick.
I would think Nationalism can be a part of our identity, it just needs to be situated on the proper level. I do want my country to do well on some level but I am a Christian and a husband and a father first, my nationalism is on a much lower level of identity.
I’m not a nationalist either leads to idolatry. I used to be in other faith groups who went nationalist after 2020. It was a mess
I wouldn't accuse all nationalists of idolatry. But an over-emphasis in loyalty to nation can certainly lead to a subsuming of one's commitment to Christianity under national loyalties. It has certainly happened at plenty of points in the past.
Interesting. Up until this point I would have described myself as a nationalist but maybe a better definition for what I am is a "patriot." I believe in taking pride in a national American identity but I would not describe myself as a nationalist the way that you described it in this video. You are right, defining terms is very important.
I would distinguish between patriotism and nationalism. But, again, I'm sure what many people mean when they call themselves nationalists today is really calling themselves patriots. There's certainly nothing wrong with loving our country!
@@DrJordanBCooper yes. I must admit that a lot of the confusion and frustration with political and theological dialogue these days stems from the multiple definitions that a term could mean. I feel like I have to be an educated dictionary before I can even start to talk about anything!
Agree with the last part, in my country politics are not a big deal for most people, its more like a reality show where people focuss more on certain personalities, the churches don't care either. It surprises me how much your people care and make divisions because of it. You will never hear someone say "if you vote for this party you're not a christian" here.
Trump 2024!!!!! I'm Lutheran and definitely a Populist.
Cool. Watch the video.
Love the diagnosis of the solution, irrespective of the language we use!
BIG ramble-
My biggest issue with C Nationalism is that the term was cooked up by International Marxists. International communists have worked for a century to make their case for an end to nations and their commie utopia etc. Suddenly in the USA the International Communists have branded everyone who disagrees with their political goals as "Nationalists". They also proceeded to tie that label to ethnic supremacy, xenophobia and white people generally (in America)- but International communists make their arguments in every nation; they're facile, their focus is much broader than just our country's politics... My point being that even to International communists the term "Nationalism" is more than just white ethnic supremacy, even if the political world revolves around American politics and the wrestle over socialism is still dominated by WW2 era European politics.
Secondly- the International communists did ALL of this on their own. American conservatives did not spontaneously come up with this term, especially if we mean by Conservatives the actual Traditional people, we had NOTHING to do with making the label Christian Nationalism and nothing to do with popularizing it. Conservatives are merely reacting. They're using the terms provided for them by the Neo-Marxists (specifically the International communists, ie globalists.)
Like you pointed out: no one was talking about Nationalism in this manner 15 years ago. But after the Leftist Neo-Marxists played their hand (in Obama's 2nd term) and took their real message into the public/political sphere they used their institutional power (colleges and media) to sell that framing and people just... bought it. The public has accepted the label, accepted the framing. "Conservatives" have responded with predictable anger and resentment, and are now circling the wagons around "Nationalism"...
Its totally fair to debate a debate even if that debate is a manufactured debate. But isn't this EXACTLY what the International communists wanted? Yes. And it bugs me that so few see this as the obvious ploy it is.
We must also understand that "Conservatives" (NOT TRADITIONALISTS) use Neo-Marxist political theory TOO. Everything in politics is a tool or a weapon. "Conservative" socialists may be more than happy to accept the framing of Nationalism because, whether they are sincere believers or not, they may be eager to lean into a NatSoc, ethnic framing to meet their goals. Wouldn't be the first time. A certain painter did exactly that in the last century.
So their political game is not OUR perspective as traditional people or as Christians. But most of us are being lumped into it and labeled as C Nationalists, and many of us will be suckered by this socialist framework because literally the entire country is being suckered by it.
So to me the whole thing comes down to socialism: this fracas is between the International vs National Socialists. This is not our game. We are, most of us, Tradionalists; we are opposed to political Socialism, left or right, in all its forms. But how many of us know this, understand this? Is there anyone in politics making a Traditonal case or stating what WE believe? Probably not, and why would they? The socialists dominated politics for all of the last century. At this point most political theory, left or right, is wrapped around Marxist or Neo-Marxist concepts. Politicians and corporations on all sides have embraced these ready-made socialist tools to gain access to money or power. I'm not sure most people understand the scale. And the media, left and right, is owned by these socialists. Media is unlikely to suddenly lift the veil, speak the truth and educate the public lol. And worse, most Christians are caught up in their respective Marxist traps. The Liberal Christians parrot Neo-Marxist Feminism and Transhumanism, the Conservative Christians parrot the emerging NatSoc narratives (though let's be honest: the Right's emerging NatSoc is still quite flimsy, largely has a tone of practicality and not hatred, and is much less deranged than the Left's Marxist Feminist/Transhumanist nonsense, but its still socialist in its framing.) So the fact remains: our churches are a cultural and political battleground and soooo many of our people do not, cannot, or will not listen to a lecture on modern socialism lol... we see that the odds are stacked against us...
Of course, all we must do is trust the Lord. We do not rely on politics to create a perfect world. But WOW this is an interesting and fraught time to live! 😅 its easy to get swept away in the churn and distraction of politics. I spend far too much time thinking on this very subject.
What do you mean by traditionalist? Most Traditionalists support socialism, for a famous example Dugin.
@@Wully02 by Traditionalist I think I mean pre-industrial political theory and applications. I see different terms like Classical or pre-Modern, Pre-mass movement politics or pre-socialist. I think most American Christians probably want to be anti-Socialist Classical Liberals in order to be free from politics to the greatest extent possible
@@quietmousse Fair. I usually see traditionalist used to refer to the philosophical school (and the political theories that have grown out of it).
@@Wully02 hmm indeed, maybe Traditonalist isn't the best word then 🤔
Nationalism is rational as you have to take care of home before anything else
Didn't watch the video?
@@richardjohnson6140 dude just watch the video😂
Jesus never was a big fan of this kind of tribalism
To prioritize yourself first is prideful
@@RenewedPerspective3626 but as Paul said to neglect one’s HH and family is worse than atheism (1 Timothy 5:8). Hence the principle of subsidiarity and by extension localism. It’s not about pride in one’s self it’s about taking care of loving the people in your own life and making sure their needs take priority. To do otherwise would be sinful and hubristic
I think politics is very interesting. I can't think of something in our culture that would be more meaningful than politics today.
I get it. I just think excessive political focus can lead to constant despair. For some people it becomes unhealthy at that point.
@@DrJordanBCooper What state do you live in? I'm in my late 20s, and I've lived in a plurality Asian town in NC all my life. It's not woke but it's immovably liberal due to demographics. Ironically, I have a lot more influence at the state and national level with NC being a swing state than I do locally!
A conservative in NY or CA cannot affect national politics (with the exception of Congressional races). This means localism or hardcore adherence to ideology are the only viable approaches to politics. I can see why someone would attack the GOP for not being purist enough in such an environment. And I can understand why someone would reject this hyper ideological approach to politics in favor of localism. But for people like me in swing states, our votes carry enormous weight. We will determine the direction the US, and Western Civilization, will go. I think that's really exciting!
@@vongslayer7338 I'm in NY where there's no hope in changing much of anything on a political level.
Based. I agree with you ✝️
Do you think that the reformed table has started to fall for a conservative social gospel?
The way the Apostle Paul defined our Christianity is by being an ecumenical movement, not a national one. Being a nationalist and a Christian at the same time is impossible. You're either not really a Christian or not really a nationalist. When Gennadius, the last great Christian scholar of the byzantines was asked if he was Greek when Constantinople fell, he answered: "I use the tongue of the Greeks but a Christian is what I am."
Sorry pastor, this time you're wrong.
I don't ask that everyone agrees. I just ask that they at least consider that there are conservative options other than nationalism.
Interesting take on Nationalism being in opposition to "Localism." I never thought of it that way before.
The solution is to define the term. And develop the political discourse.
It’s so true that we are deeply impoverished in our political theological thinking.
The racist fringe will always try to capture popular labels.
We all should deny as Christians that Nationalism means ethno-nationalism (Doug Wilson is very good on this point).
Within Christian views on types of “establishment of religion,” I would be for ethical Christian establishment by argued consensus.
I would oppose the use of a “Christian religious test for office” because that confuses the motives of true religious devotion with political power.
That is the conversation that we need to have among “Christian Nationalists.”
I would agree that nationalism should not be opposed to localism or federalism. Rather it is opposed to globalism. It’s actually a form of localism.
But I’m not wedded to the term. It will depend upon who wins the definition wars.
The question then is what is the positive term we will adopt?
I don't think you are expressing your thoughts correctly or you are simply wrong. If you meant when you stated that "the loyalty shifted from local to the state", I hope you meant "they loyalty hierarchy shifted where the state is now higher than the local". If not, then you are simply wrong.
Darryl Cooper had similar thoughts in his conversation with Auron MacIntyre. ua-cam.com/video/3n4MS2-IUbA/v-deo.html
Most people who identify as nationalists are using the word in contrast to globalism, whereas those who don't like the term are contrasting it with localism; its the same principle at work.
I'm a Christian Left localist in the vein of Wendell Berry, who I end up referencing a lot in my work. After the local I'm a bioregionalist. I like my State and Nation and the Globe but because of Nationalism's roots in White Supremacist, 19th Century German authors, I've got to be against it. Plenty of people are patriotic without being Nationalists. I go ahead and let Christian Nationalists define their movement. Stephen Wolfe defines it as WASP. That is White supremacist, Anglosaxon supremacist, and Protestant supremacist.
I am uncomfortable with the way Wolfe speaks about ethnicity, but he has never called himself a white supremacist.
I'm not an American but it's obvious that American nationalism has often been creedal. Stars and Stripes! Declaration of Independence! All men are created equal, inalienable rights yadayada!
Heck, even British nationalism historically has often tended towards being simple patriotism.
Some good and clear critique here but you left out mass immigration as a cultural genocide. And you blame nationalism for things industrial capitalism and communism caused and nationalism, the reaction to capitalism and communism, inherited. Good prescription to local, but when certain factions are using mass migration and cultural racial difference directly to pulverize local culture and genocide some of us, focusing exclusively on local and ignoring the demise of your people is suicide. And that is sin.
Focus on making disciples, not electing them. I've probably gone a little further away from nationalist mentality. I've decided not to vote, for the foreseeable future and it has been the most liberating decision I've made in years. I have complete peace with it. Yes, I still love the country.
When it's all said and done nationalism is pretty hard to nail down. At least that's what I'm getting after listening to this video.
I like what you said about the importance of focusing on local community centers, churches, family, culture, government, issues, etc.
The nation will reflect nature and quality of our communities.
Having said that, our federal government has become such an uncontrollable behemoth, I don't know if it's salvageable.
Nick Fuentes is based and right about the Js. Plus he catholic and not a gay Protestant
Humm... brings up loneliness, but says nothing about the economic changes that took place as a result of the industrial revolution, and the ending of an agrarian society. Women seeing through the chauvinism of being excluded from church office, while single men are made church officers. Women living longer. Kids leaving the home to go to school. . Women leaving the home to go to work. Tenure of employment being incredibly short. Most people not owning the thing that produces their wealth. Those whose thing that they own that produces their wealth is a trade or knowledge, that has an incredibly short half-life. And.... wait for it...
Divorce
I generally respect Dr Cooper. But wow, this discussion seems incredibly out of touch.
I'd pull up My copy of the book Future Shock, but it got lost in the third move I was forced to take during the nest building years of my life. Moves forced by "didn't create a dime of wealth" Wall Street shenanigans.
1. There is nothing confusing about the term Christian Nationalism. You lie when you say there is.
2. There is nothing wrong with nationalism. Insofar as our federal government is NOT nationalistic it is unconstitutional.
"The average person shouldn't be thinking about politics all day" I disagree. There are people that think about politics all day and they will gain power while you ignore them, until they show up on your doorstep one day. In a perfect world you would be correct, but that's not the world we live in. I know most people don't want to accept this fact but we are at war. I strongly suggest you find out who your enemy is and what exactly it is that they are doing and have been doing for a long time. Or you can stick your head in the sand and just let it happen.
"The average person shouldn't be thinking about politics all day"
The Bible says that the righteous man meditates on God's word day and night (Psalm 1), on that which is above, *not* what is in the world (Colossians 3:2), that which is godly (Phillipians 4:8), etc.
It also says to not be confirmed to the pattern of the world (Romans 12:2), and that we are no longer of the world (John 15:19), etc. Not to mention the whole of 1 Peter which is about how persecution of Christians is inevitable and we aren't to be fazed by it or fight fire with fire. We win in the end even if we get literally beheaded (Revelation).
FWIW, you might want to read Romans 11, about how the group you are presumably referencing based on your phraseology and how someone can be the enemy of the gospel and yet God tells you not to despise them, let alone obsess over them.
@@SeanusAurelius Ephesians 6:13 - Therefore, take up the full armor of God, so that you will be able to resist in the evil day, and having done everything, to stand firm.
I don't think you're meant to sit idlily by while they influence culture turning millions of children into abominations. They have changed the state of the world and are removing God from the equation. I'm not going to stick my head in the sand and pretend I don't see it.
I remember from your one old video that u are an libertarian, so thats understable why u arent an nationalist
I consider myself a Burkean conservative. Politically, I'd align with someone like Russell Kirk.
@@DrJordanBCooper I think its still compatible , there is a political movement called libertarian conservativism
Funny, I just had this discussion with my Russian Orthodox son last night …
One locality, under God…
Okay, now I have to ask: is taxation theft?
no
Why suck up to leftists. Christian nationalism means you live out your Christian beliefs in the general community, which includes voting.
Did you watch the video? Not being a nationalist does not mean being a leftist. Not until the last few years has it somehow been assumed that to be a conservative is necessarily to be a nationalist.
@@DrJordanBCooper Religious Right is the Christian Nationalists. Believing that the US was meant to be a Christian nation makes you a Christian Nationalist.
Compare the ending of Franklin Graham's prayer this year to the end of Billy Graham's prayer at both the Republican and Democrats convention and you will see how Christianity is incorrectly viewed today and how it was correctly viewed back then.
@@DrJordanBCooper Christian Nationalist is another name for Religious Right. Marginalizing people due to nationalism is a Russian technique as is the Marxist Godless Society embraced by today's culture.
If you want to see just one fundamental shift look at the closing of Franklin Graham's prayer which said in my Lord Jesus name compared to Billy Graham's prayer at the end of both Republican and Democrat National convention...in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. One prayed to only his Lord as entertainment, the other was leading a communal prayer for everyone.
Americans who are Christians have the responsibility to vote according to conscience, which means according to Christian beliefs. God, Country, then family or God, Family, then country is how things are to be. As citizens of the United States we are called to be Christian Nationalists.
Christian Nationalism used to be called Religious right. Redefining the term as Christian Nationalist just uses Russian terminology to marginalize. Christian is evil due to the Godless Marxist society, nationalism is evil in modern Russia.
If you want to see a concrete example of how things have changed, compare Franklin Graham's closing of his prayer at the RNC to his father's. Franklin prayed in his savior's name as entertainment, while his father closed by leading a communal prayer to the father, son and holy Ghost
Why do my replies keep getting deleted?
"Why I'm not a nationalist" - then you must be a woke communist/socialist
Really not. This is a slippery slope fallacy.
Maybe you should watch the video.
@@DrJordanBCooper Why make an educated response when I could do title exegesis?
I feel this sentence depicts our polarised society and broken political discourse very well.
Not at all. Lord Jesus said You can’t serve two masters. To be a nationalist is to put something as equal to or higher than God, then you are violating the first commandment: You shall have no other God.
Female pastor
You're a female pastor?
@@DrJordanBCooperyour*
Unsubscribed
Too bad for you.
Maybe you should watch the video first.
You should consider coming out of the liberal closet. @@DrJordanBCooper
You’ll be back 😘
See ya. 👋