KUULA + Insta360 ONE RS 1-Inch 360. The Easiest 360 Tours for Real Estate!
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- Опубліковано 29 сер 2024
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Today’s Video:
KUULA + Insta360 ONE RS 1-Inch 360. The Easiest 360 Tours for Real Estate!
In today's video I will be going over the process of shooting a property, editing the images and setting up your KUULA tour to send out your 360 real estate images.
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I have been using this combo for a couple of years now and its awesome!
I just started following my teacher on real estate photography. I just started from scratch. I request more videos about shooting and editing and virtual tour. good luck to you and your work. You're very successful, I appreciate it. Sorry for noticing you late, but I'm so grateful that youtube recommended you. Thank you very much.
Great video!! Can I offer one piece of advice? On all of your interior shots, there is a very visible stitch line starting from the ceiling and going down most of the walls. This is because when you use the brush tool and go over any of the edges it won't match those brightness levels on the opposite side when it is viewed in 360. The tip is to never go over any of the edges of the image when using local adjustments (brush tools), global ones are fine though. Also, have you tried Affinity photo for removing items in mirrors and also the tripod? I have a video about that on my channel. :)
This is actually awesome advice! I had another recommendation to only use top or bottom gradients to add light so it's even on both sides. Good looking out for sure
I noticed the same thing. A few of the lights have also turned red
You can expand canvas to 200% in width. Copy the layer and move it next to the original layer, then go over the edges and after you are done, crop it back to 2:1.
Excellent job done, Jeremy. Lots of love ❤️ from India 🇮🇳
Hello from Switzerland! Just got my One RS, tomorrow first virtual tour. Just a side note, you're mentioning 1 stop overexposure setting, I think this is not EV setting like on normal camera, it rather shows you how far apart are the brackets (+-0.3, +-0.6 and +-1), there is no 0. You can see when you select 3 brackets you have an option to choose +-2 stops apart. Anyway watched this vid 4 times, thanks for all the info!
That was terrific. So well done. Thank you very much.
I gave Kuula a try this past weekend after running into issues with Matterport and Android compatibility. I absolutely loved it. My clients loved the quality of the images but not having the ability for measurements was a dealbreaker for them so ended up having to order a iPad for use with Matterport.
Thank you, just the right amount of everything, watched from start to finish.
You are great !! Thank you so much, from New Zealand.
Thank you!
Great video, im starting with real state photography and some tips you do are very helpful. Thanks!
Glad it helped!
If it helps: in Insta360 Studio, if you select all the photos and export them, it doesn't explicitly give you the option to choose JPG or DNG, but that's because it will do both. It takes a little longer to export probably, but far less time than going through and exporting each photo one-by-one 😅
This is solid information
Nice video Jeremy! I've done probably a 1000 virtual tours with the Theta Z1. Recently I was on a job and the Z1 froze up on me (like it does quite often) so I grabbed the RS 1 out of my bag and used it for the first time. I was doing a Zillow Home Tour (which I absolutely hate because the quality sucks, but realtors love the interactive floor plan). I was impressed how the RS 1 handled the yellow color temperature over what you get from the Z1 and the image quality was about the same. I'm going to try the RS 1 on my higher quality tours, so that's why I was checking out your video to figure out the work flow. For those tours I use Kuula or CloudPano and they both have their pros and cons. Also, when you brighten the ceilings use the linear gradient tool and keep it absolutely level, that way you're doing global adjustments that won't show the stitch line.
You are now the third person to mention that better editing method of gradients so I have already started making that my actual workflow, but thanks for the real world information about how the camera compares to something else its similar to.
Very useful video! Thanks, and hello from Hungary!
Awesome! Glad it was helpful and thanks for watching
I played the 3 to 9 HDR bracket comparison over and over I kind of like the way the 5 bracket looked thats not to say it would be better in editing ,but maybe enough.
Great video. I was just asked to look into producing these types of videos for some of our schools that I work for. This seems to be the way to go, but I'm still researching.
Let me know if you have any other questions
@jeremydeihl I do actually! How would the finished video be shown on our school sites? Or do we have to provide a link that the viewers go to?
Great video, thanks bud
you are the man! great vid
Thank you!
@@jeremydeihl hi there great video. had you considered the ricoh theta z1 or other ricoh cameras too? your insta rs seems a great choice for real estate
3 HDR bracket didn't appear to be not enough although 5, 7 or 9 seemed good in my eyes but i'm a beginner so I'm sure there editing advantages to a more is more approach.
Awesome video bro . Great work! You got a subscriber
Thank you!
Excellent tutorials... Thank you for being so concise and articulate. What's your workflow? Any suggestions on how you get the files from the 360 model 4 microsSD to an iPad for editing and storing. Any tips would be most appreciated.
Nice job Jeremy. I’m finding I can get a great virtual tour with no/very little editing (white balance/exposure corrections) when using this camera vs my old Onex2. It’s saving me a ton of editing time. Also using Kuula for these tours and Cloud Pano for commercial tours (allows uploading to Google Maps inside the program). Just wish insta studio would allow batch exports of DNG files. That would save even more time.
Great content thanks for your share. ❤
Great Job !
Using same camera, now doing HDR 5 shots (did 9, then 7...) and got Bushmaster V2 Monopod . Thick like for you man . Also staying with Kuula, still free version.
I will definitely have to check that one out!
Do you remove the tripod legs from the images?
@@islanddrivingtour Hello. No, not removing. I should, if doing for real good client
Loving the videos on this camera. I've picked one up recently and it's amazing.
I can't deny I love having it around too. I have also been using it to fake drone shots.
Excellent as usual but I vaguely remember you mentioning in another video that you didn't find 360 tours to be very useful in your business. Sure you put it another way though. I've made 360's with my Z1 but have had trouble getting past the Matterport name and their doll house etc. Almost all the 360's I see in this area are Matterport and often that's expected. Thank you for this.
Long story short, Zillow decided this year that it will be featuring 360 tour content above everything else on the page. Above video and above photos(from what I read) and ever since the new year I have started getting asked about them. I still don't do a ton of them(maybe 3 a week right now) but I am doing 200x the amount of 360tours I was doing before the new year
@@jeremydeihl Thank you for your reply,;perhaps Matterport isn't so prevalent in your area. Best to you.
@@alanabley525 Be careful, matterport does not yet support the insta360 1 rs camera in full mode, only a beta version with terrible photos inside the tour. the product is raw and not yet suitable for Matterport
@@makeev888 Thank you Makeev, I only use the Theta Z1
Fantastic video. I have a probable elementary question. After I share the link or embedded link, do I need to maintain the tour on my desktop?
Not at all. Once it's online with their system you should be good to remove the photos on your computer
Great video! Thank you!
Can you share how long it takes for the rs 1 inch t take a 9 exposure hdr?
I'm thinking to upgrade from the x3 that takes about 1.5 minutes for a 7 exposure hdr.
Thank you!
About the same time, I don't know the exact same time but I know the 9 bracket from the ONE RS 1-inch is an easier to edit and overall cleaner image than the X3
nice video and explanation.. where i can get this tripod extended legs?
Would be great to know, how to retouch the tripod in the image. If I retouch it in Photoshop or else, it gets a mess in 3D view.
Do you have any videos on how you price your packages? Like from photos, to videos, 360 tours? I’m in iowa, I won’t compete.
Hey Jeremy, I just re-watched this video in preparation for my first 360 shoot of one of our buildings tomorrow. Do you tend to leave in the tripod feet in the shot or do you get rid of that as well when editing the photos?
Sorry I am out of the country working currently and just saw this message. It depends on the price you're charging for the final product. Most agents prefer to pay less and leave the feet, but I would just ask in advance. "Just to let you know there is a $50 fee to remove the tripod feet from all the images or I can leave them as they come and save you a little money."
At least that's how I ask them 😁
@jeremydeihl HI Jeremy...thanks for the reply. The 360 shoots I'm doing is for my company. Since I left this message, I've found using the new "generative fill" feature in photoshop makes it so easy to remove the feet. It might make a good video topic for you showing how it's done. It's so simple.
@@AllenRReid super smart idea!
15:20
Hi,
thanks for the video!
Can you please give me an advise how to remove a notice after increasing exposure? In Davinci Resolve we can do NR node but how to fix it in LIghtroom?
24:34 and what about the stitching on the ceiling? Can we get rid of that?
Thanks.
Great Job and thank you for all your advices ! Could you give me your Real Estate Brush setting ? Because we couldn't see the values on the right of the screen.
Thank you so much !
Nice video, but the background music was a bit too loud and distracting. To be perfectly honest, it (the music) was totally unnecessary. Does this camera have an HDR video? I just bought an X2, so too early for me to switch.
Всім чотири, а тобі пять!
How does this stack up against the "Insta360 x4" for 360 Real Estate Tours?
great tutorial thanks
I am confused as to why you opened it in Photoshop first when you did nothing to it with that software. Then right after you opened them up in Lightroom. I use Affinity photo to remove the feet of the tripod and any shadows from it. One thing I did notice is you did not put any markets to guide people from room to room so they know what is what in the layout.
That's because this was just a very basic introduction to the process of uploading on Kuula with a 360 cam that is not Matterport. Typically I edit in Photoshop and Lightroom, but the video was not about how to edit a 360 photo so I just left in the basics. That being said I'll be releasing a more detailed video from camera to publish on the Kuula platform next week, and I just released a few weeks ago about just the new updated edit panel in Kuula
@@jeremydeihl It was a great video btw.
hello new subscriber here hi from Australia
Awesome! Glad to have ya
Is there a way to download the tour to deliver it to the customer or it has to be a link ?
Please inform me if there is a way to post the tour on the client website?
There is an embedded code available for every tour so customers can embed directly into their website, but I'm not sure about the ability to download the tour
Hello Jeremy, is there a way I can send you the Kuula link? I really would appreciate a comment from you, being my first Virtual Tour test, which I have shot with my X3, in the apartment of a friend. There are only eight short pictures, but in one, is very visible the stitching line and it would be great if you could tell me how to avoid it. All the best from Italy.
I cant seem to get the same settings as you in Insta. Yet i have the same version? Any idea?
This video is pretty old now and since they released a few new cameras the firmware updates have changed some of the options available in the menus
Tell me how to make ordinary photos of good quality from 360 photos? Can't make dng photo with reframe in insta studio app??
Very usefull and nicely presented. I tried to follow your process, but the files wouldn't upload to Kuula, because the dng format is not supported ! Is there a trick to upload dng files or do you convert them to a different format before uploading to Kuula ?
I convert all mine in the process when exporting them from Lightroom
grate video❤how did you take first 360 helishot in kuula link?
I used the Insta360 Sphere camera, I have a couple videos about it on my channel if you're interested 😁
Nice video! Can you share the resulting matterport tour? And did you face any difficulties while connecting matterport to the insta360 RS 1 inch since it isn't yet officially supported by matterport?
Unfortunately I cannot share the Matterport tour because Matterport the company will not allow it without a paid subscription. Since I prefer Kuula to Matterport, I personally don't pay for it so there is no way to share the tour.
Thanks for the info
When you say from 3 to 9 HDR bracket, do you have it set so that it is capturing a wider range with 9 ?
There is an option that allows you to pick how many separate exposures go into the single composed image at the end. You can either choose 3/6/9 (I believe those are the only options) and the higher number you choose, the better the overall dynamic range the final product will have. Not sure entirely if that's what you were asking, but I hope it helps
Thanks, Dan. How did you create that shot of the aerial? Like equipment and how to set it up with the DJI? Do you have a video to create 360 photos and videos with the DJI? God bless
What kind of tripod is this and what parts does it consist of? How high is it? Is it at least 200 cm?
This is just the standard stick and base from Insta360 that came with the bundle I got.
store.insta360.com/product/all_purpose_tripod?c=851&from=nav
store.insta360.com/product/selfie_stick?c=2141&from=nav
Code for extra discount: INRKXOJ
I think you can do merge photos in LR .. am i right ?
You can merge traditional images, but from my experience you cannot merge the file types created by the Insta360 camera. It may have changed by now, but when I made this video you could not do it with the images created by this camera
If I do a shoot and someone leaves furniture in the house how bad will that hinder things?
I guess that just depends on how nice the furniture looks, lol
But most of the properties I do have some sort of furniture in them so you should be all right
What insta 360 stick did you buy, I can’t find one where the legs extend and don’t go complete flat out ? Can you provide a link with your affiliate?
I actually have 2 different sticks that I use, one is the same stick in this video and the other is the extended pole for my fake drone shots.
Here is my affilate link: store.insta360.com/accessory?insrc=INRKXOJ
Here is my affiliate Code - INRKXOJ
Here is the regular one with the handle - store.insta360.com/product/invisible_selfie_stick_tripod?c=1246
Here is the extended handle for Fake Drone Shots - store.insta360.com/product/Extended_Edition_Selfie_Stick?c=1344
Great video as always. I'm trying to embed a Kuula Tour that I did onto my Canva Website, but when I copy & paste the embed code on my website like I normally do to add a video to my website, I can't get it to play the virtual tour. I'm able to embed the thumnail of the actual tour from Kuula onto my Canva Website, but I can't get it to play the Kuula virtual tour. Is there some sort of plug-in I need, etc.., in order to embed my Kuula virtual tour on my Website so that it works? Any advice or suggestions are highly appreciated. Thanks.
Honestly I'm not sure because I deliver all mine through Aryeo so I never have that problem. Sorry I cant be of more help but I'm sure Kuula customer service will help with no problems 😁
@@jeremydeihl thanks
The customer has their website, I want to upload the source to their website to store on their server, is that possible?
That depends on how that customers site is set up, but Kuula does offer embed codes along with links for inserting into tours and webpages
Have you looked into Affinity Pro 2 for the photo editing if so how do you think it compares with lightroom
I have someone from Affinity asking me to review the software now. If I can fit it into the schedule I def will
Can you shoot RAW stills from that camera? Then you don't need to bracket I guess.
Yes you can shoot raw stills, but the bracketed images look 10x better for dynamic range
@@jeremydeihl Thanks. That's great help.
I'm not able to see how to increase your exposure +1 when shooting hdr. I just see the 9 photos +-1 stop apart but theres no other setting to adjust the base exposure.
Good afternoon Tell me, can you post your presets for processing photos? Where can they be downloaded?
I actually don't have them set up anywhere for download, but in the video it has all my preset settings on the right you can copy. I want another month with the camera before I start releasing any presents for it just to make sure those presets work in the most situations possible.
Does that particular selfie stick come with the legs or is that a separate accessory ,and is that made by the same company insta 360 whats the name of the model or models ?
It is all the Insta360 stick in the video, here is the direct link for it and the code INRKXOJ will get you a small percentage off it :
store.insta360.com/product/invisible_selfie_stick_tripod?c=1246&from=accessory
You don't take the time to add hotspots for the tour?
Hotspots in Kuula is already only with Payable Subscription, and this version is Free.
Al is exactly correct here. For the free version you can't add them, but if you pay for the advanced version you can. I wanted this tutorial to be just about using the free version so everyone could get into it as cheaply as possible.
@@jeremydeihl I gotcha. Makes sense.
06:02 what red spot on lamp on the siling?
Sorry for the late response. I believe what you are seeing is the blown out highlights. In Lightroom you can push a tab that will turn all your blown out highlights to red and all your crushed blacks to blue
@JeremyDeihl my LR Classic shows me an error on DNG export (only with Insta360 DNGs) "There was an unknown error. (1)", images from canon camera or DJI drone works okay, INSTA360 used to work before but now I have no idea what to do with it(
Honestly I am not quite sure how to help with the issue is you are having. I also use LR Classic and have not had any issues personally like this one. My only advice would be to check your Adobe CC to see if there is an update for LR. You could also try editing the image in Photoshop and if that works then you know it's a problem with LR, if you can't use the images in PS either then it's probably a problem with the Insta360 application. Either way you should be able to troubleshoot where the problem is initially happening this way. Sorry I can't be of more help
@@jeremydeihl thanks for the answer, it was strange problem with couple photos, I didn't understand the reason but new photos from same camera works ok. I guess it was some fault on export from insta360 studio but why...
Great informative video!
I am thinking of getting an insta360 camera; X3 or RS1. I don't have a cell phone, only a laptop PC. It is using linux OS, not Win or Mac. Do the insta360 apps and hardware support linux?
Thanks again for the videos.
Regards
I honestly have no clue, I personally use windows but I'm sure a visit to the webpage will tell you if they have a Linux version of their application. Sorry I could not be more help!
@@jeremydeihl OK! Thanks for the info.
Hey there Jeremy. I have heard that his camera has a few issues overheating? I am stuck between getting one of these or getting an the wide body insta 360 RS. Eventually I want both to be able to use with my drones but I just wanted to ask about the overheating issue. There is a client who wants some construction walkthroughs and that would take longer running time. ALSO, cool to see you are also in Raleigh.
I am not gonna lie, after running it for a long house walkthrough (like 30 mins) it does get hot, but I have never personally had it overheat on me and shut down or become unusable because of it. Cool you're in Raleigh, if you ever want to meet up I'll let you check out mine in person if you want to
@@jeremydeihl 100 percent man. The builder I'm working with now wants me to use it for walkthroughs of their construction site. So it definitely could take a bit longer for running time. I'm pretty sure it's what I'm just going to buy for them. Shoot me a time and place to meet up and talk about stuff and I'm there. My name is Brian by the way.
Sorry for the late response on this, the amount of video work this week for me has been insane! Send me an email (contact4jd@yahoo.com) and we can set something up and I'll bring the sphere for the drone too.
@@jeremydeihl No worries. Sending you an e-mail now. Good to hear you have been busy!
Hi Jeremy,
I am following your videos with excitement. I use matterport and insta360 one rs 1 inch for 3d tours. Do you know of a method where I can adjust the lighting and other settings of 360-degree photos while preparing a virtual tour with Matterport? I would really apreciate if you help. Thank you from now
Unfortunately I do not know of a way to edit the images for a matterport tour. From my experience it is all automated by their software with no abilities to edit yourself, but I could be mistaken
@@jeremydeihl thank you 🙏
What is the best software you recommended to use for VR?
please tell me how do you upload photos in Kuula? just save photos in jpeg format with maximum quality in photoshop?
Yes, highest quality jpeg and I export at 2:1 ratio for the best look on KUULA
Great video! But I have the problem that my DNG Files dont merge auto., what can I do?
Are you processing them through the Insta360studio desktop application or cell phone application first?
@@jeremydeihldesktop and newest version
@@brand360solutions sounds like you need to send a message to customer support. If you do it through their app it seems to get you a faster response from my experience.
Great video! what would you recommend for a virtual tour, One RS 1-inch or X3? It seems that the X3 got a higher resolution at 72MP while the One RS 1 only has 21MP but had a Leica lens on it! I am a photographer and I know what Leica means to us :) I have 2 units of X2 and it's not good for low-light conditions. I am buying anytime soon but am still undecided on the 2 cameras (RS 1 or X3), more on real estate virtual tour use. Need your expert advised. Thanks
I would recommend the ONE RS 1-Inch only because of my personal experience with it. I have never actually used the X3, I came from using the Ricoh Theta Z1 and it blows that image out of the water. Sorry I could not be of more help here
@jeremydeihl thanks! I highly appreciate your tips. Just got my DJI Avata yesterday, and I will get deep research on the camera and incorporate both for my virtual tour projects soon. Again, thanks.
unrelated/random question, but did you use adobe podcast ai on the audio?
Hey there Sam! I responded to your email but never heard back from you. The audio from this video is using the Zoom F2BT and just run through basic fair light settings in Davinci. Honestly audio is the subject I know the absolute least about
@@jeremydeihlI must’ve missed it, I dont see it in my inbox for some reason.
Hi Jeremy, thank you for the great video and explanation. Maybe I am blind but I can't find the link to the virtual tour in Kuula, it would be great to see the final tour. Can you please share the link? Thank you
Hey there! I am pretty sure its right in-between the description of the video and the likes for my gear, but here is the link just in case :) hope it helps
kuula.co/share/collection/7F7jH?logo=0&info=1&fs=1&vr=0&sd=1&thumbs=1
Silly, question here as I’m new to virtual tours….what is the app you’re using to initially capture the 360 images on your device? I’m on iOS and use an iPad. My 360 camera is the Insta360 RS1 1 inch 360 edition. I can connect my iPad to the camera via the Insta360 app, but there doesn’t seem to be any 360 tour software that allows me to control the camera from the iPad. I feel like I’m missing something right in front of my eyes. Any thoughts?
Looks like I found the answer. Turns out the insta360 app appears differently depending if it’s installed on an iPad or iPhone (no camera functionality on an iPad).
Awesome! Glad you figured it out
When editing on insta 360 studio and light room the images had that stitched together look and wideness , in Kuula they looked framed even though you could rotate 360
can you explain how that works , what stage are the images framed ? i guess is what I'm asking.
Sorry about the late response here. If you notice in the tutorial you can see me moving around a cross hair like item on the screen when putting the images in the KUULA tour. That is what sets the frame for the initial view of the image. I hope that is what you were looking for there
Makes sense but I’ll have to observe That section of the tutorial closely again to really get it . Thanks !!!
Quick question: Looking at the listing in Aryeo, did you shoot the video footage (ground level) with the Insta360? Very cinematic vs your walkthrough video.
Good question and the short answer is no haha. I offer two styles of video, one is a basic walkthrough style video I do with the insta360 and one is a more cinematic approach. Different agents prefer different things so I like to have an option for all of them
@@jeremydeihl right on. Thanks for the reply
Only thing i dont like ab your tour is you dont give the steps to each room moving. Its just one big click to next click. Not actual walk through
Keep in mind this is just a sample tour that goes along with the video I made for a tutorial. You can put as many or as little photo points as you want. Feel free to take a photo every 2 steps if you want 🤣
hello, I don't have the export merged dng function in the app (using M1 Mac)
Unfortunately I have never used the application on a Mac computer so I'm not entirely sure how different they look/operate for the two systems. I'm a PC workflow over here 😕 sorry I can't be of more help but I would try reaching out to the Insta360 support team
tnx
is this wallpaper on your desktop from insta360?
Na, this is an image from a local property I photographed. It's their cabana house for the pool.
why my camera images looks like vga quality :(?
Hey any way to get your light room preset ?
Hi what format do you export the files from Lightroom to jpg?
Correct! I export .dng from the Insta360 app at 2:1 ratio and I export images from Lightroom as .jpg
What Kind of Data do you put in kuula? JPG; PNG?
I always use jpeg, but not sure if the site allows for other formats
@@jeremydeihl thx 🙏🏻
Hi, can i use x3 instead?
So you don’t use hotspots to move from room to room from within your tours. Would this work if embedding in a website as opposed to MLS?
Much quicker without the hotspots. Is that why you leave them out?
I'm not entirely sure what you mean by hotspots. I know with Matterport it requires onsite scans to build out the floorplan, but with KUULA none of that is required since it's all done in post production.
@@jeremydeihl I mean the arrows within the photo that allow the user to move from room to room. I believe Kuula calls them hotspots.
@@JimLodico Ahhhhh, I see. I do personally use them in my tours, but for the video I was just trying to show what someone could do with the free version of the platform. In order to use the hotspots you have to have a paid account and even though I use them, I did not want to include anything not easily accessible by everyone
@@jeremydeihl Got it. I don't even think I realized there was a free version. Thanks for the great information and response.
Oh, and when I was asking if it would work for embedding in a website -- if you were to embed the tour in a website (which I believe uses a frame of some sort), would it show the photos along the bottom so the person can pick the different photos as shown?
what am I doing wrong?
Using random white paint brush and using heal instead of clone. Ouch. Was really interested in this until that low grade kindergarten stuff. Pen tool / marquee + clone would make it seamless. Takes 3 more seconds. Heal or magic lasso usage is so sloppy and takes a few more seconds for a grade if 85 vs 100.
Haha nice insult there, you call it kindergarten and I call it making a basic tutorial on the very basics of introducing this workflow to people interested in its uses. You can edit your images in whatever way you want, I never said this was the only way to edit and your snarky remark is probably the reason you're out there stalking in the shadows of other people's videos instead of making them yourself. Feel free to leave a link below to your video showcasing how new people in our industry can get started with this camera...
Oh wait, you don't have one...
Don't worry I'll wait... 🤣
But on a serious note if you were to browse my channel you would probably realize that all my videos start with the very basics of information for people trying to enter the real estate content creation side.
I'm truly sorry if I did not showcase your very specific way of editing an image, but my motto when it comes to real estate in particular is simple. Do what it takes to make money, nothing more nothing less. If you don't like what I'm showing, simply don't follow me but trying to show up in comments like you are talking down to someone lower that you is seriously hilarious to me.
It's not my artistic medium of choice and if you take that kind of pride in your real estate imagery then that is great for you. I have other forms of photography and cinematography that I find way more fulfilling to spend my artistic talent on.
You have constructive criticism, that's cool, learn how to leave that criticism like a professional and maybe you will get treated like one in this industry, or did they not teach you that in art kindergarten????
Orc