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For me, the greatest delight of Shadow of the Erdtree has been how much tighter and thematically resonant it has felt to me - it's all motherhood and abandonment, grace and night, yearning and scorn and mothers replacing mothers. It is, quite genuinely, literally everywhere in the DLC. Not to say that the base game didn't have anything going on, but the level of overt and deliberate repetition present here is really mesmerizing.
Makes me think of my friend and I going through our loadouts on DS3 and telling him I'm using the basic ass shield and a fully leveled broadsword. I just fumbled through the game with my friends and got my ass whooped like everybody else.
@@incendiarypoprocks8700Well the “allegations” were that he kidnapped Miquella to marry and do other stuff to him. He absolutely beat those because now we know he was mind controlled and forced to do what he did, and it wasn’t even what we thought he was doing.
@@BasketCase-rr7txthey probably think being in a blood cult is bad, despite it just being another possible Order. At least an age of blood would be better than Ranni’s….
Godwyns actual corpse is in the nameless eternal city at the "Prince of Death's Throne" Those faces are in the base game as well. The "cadaver surrogates" one is in the bottom of stormviel castle
There actually is a boss in Charo’s Hidden Grave. There’s a Deathbird that descends from the sky where there are many minor deathbirds gathering. There’s also a goal there too.
It’s also the only Deathbird that comes out in the day too, which is an interesting bit of lore for the area as presumably it means that it’s always night there.
I would absolutely love the nerdiness and passion from Renata here IF it wasn't at the expense of anyone else's thoughts and opinions. Felt like nobody was allowed to get a word in without ren stepping in to completely invalidate whatever they said with an overly-confident sense of having authoritative knowledge. I mean, damm, it's a fictional world. The whole point is that there is no objective world with objective truth and people get to interpret things in their own ways. Fromsoft's whole thing is cryptic lore that let's you fill in the details! If I was reading a book and every time I had a thought that wasn't "correct" and somebody stepped in to crucify me for it, I would stop reading. Add to that the fact that she's just factually wrong about some of the few things that *are* objective (eg "x attack is literally undodgeable according to the frame data" when I've seen people do it repeatedly) makes it feel pretty bad. A know-it-all is frustrating. A know-it-all about a fictional world is worse. A know-it-all who's literally wrong and won't let people just have fun is... just too much for me. If yr gonna disagree with everyone about everything, at least do it respectfully in a way that doesn't make everyone feel completely invalidated and shut down 😢
what the hell video did you people watch she never shut down or invalidated anyone, if they felt that way I'm sure we'd know about it not to mention jacob's comment at the end where he says she is "regularly the best part of these"
A lot of weird almost pretentious comments about how kyle plays but i actually really enjoyed his perspective of how being unaware of whats going on almost adds to the experience in a way
He doesnt really know that it added to the experience when he has never played it any other way. Plus he can play the game however he wants, but it dosent stop it being funny when hes so nonchalant about missing half the game.
@@jumponeverything Yeah, people who insists there is a right way to play souls games or get mad at people's differing play styles are insufferable. Who cares how Kyle plays? If Kyle has fun playing a video game, that's enough. I appreciate his perspective, it's kind of refreshing for someone who is enmeshed in From discourse.
I like that Bayle and Igon are a Song of Ice and Fire (Game of Thrones) reference. Bayle the Dread and Igon = Balerion the Black Dread and his rider Aegon the Conqueror
Hi, love the content! I do wish to comment about the cast's take on story trailers contradicting the game. I don't think there is strong evidence to show that there is any contradictions. Miquella on Torrent is brought up as an example of such a contradiction, but this easily could be a scene from the past before Torrent is bestowed upon the Tarnished. This would be in theme with the trailers in general since they depict the past and not the present. This itself is in theme of the bulk of the narrative of the game itself depicting past events through the art and written item descriptions.
I don't think she's steamrolling others. I think she generally keeps up with the pace of the conversation, adds a lot in terms of lore and doesn't interpret people more than the others.
She was clearly trying to do a bit of social commentary by being so forceful with that opinion. It was obvious that she's read people sympathizing with Messmer online and wanted to clarify that despite his sympathetic backstory, did indeed Messmer commit genocide against the Hornsent.
morgotts cursed sword and mimic tear completely owned the final boss for me (plus had mohgs bloodboon equipped tbh whole dlc felt like an omen brothers revenge tour with me using their blood abilities haha)
I think Marika put the healing tree in an area that was genocided by the hornsent, not by her (though she genocided most of the rest of the shadowrealm I guess) Yeah, don't really see Messmers as a good guy haha, but this beautiful area highlights how dark, lonely and tragic the entire affair has been, marika's Shire, the place of innocence she came from, preserved and abandoned (similar to Miquella I suppose), her following actions inspired by tragedy leading to further tragedy we've spent the whole game exploring, each generation being neglected and failed by the last only to do the same to the next
Yeah I was gonna chime in on the Shaman Village thing as well, Marika didn’t genocide her own people the Hornsent slaughtered them all to try and create crucible saints. It’s pretty clearly spelled out that the gross jar people are what’s left of Marika’s people after the Hornsent got done with them.
@@1925683 We don't really have anything that points to that being the case but we do have a lot of instances of ghosts and descriptions pointing to the Hornsent torturing and melding all the shamans in the jars for their own religious reasons. I'd rather err on the side of Occam's Razor for this since it requires a lot more assumptions to go "Marika did it" when we have all this evidence pointing to the Hornsent when it comes to the genocide of the Shamans.
@@1925683 Fromsoft lore is often somewhat vague, but from what I know of there is no indication that Marika was involved with the extermination of the Shamans, a claim like that would require specific evidence
That guys comment about the dude who created mesmerism sent me down a huge rabbit hole about animal magnetism. That idea - that all life, plants, animals, humans, share a fundamental, vital "life force energy" and that it is that energy which distinguishes life from non life - is very compelling in regards to the lore of elden ring. I can't shake the similarities of this idea and the crucible. Could this be how we are supposed to think of the crucible? Mesmerism was also the precursor to hypnotism and the implications of this in regards to mesmers character in elden ring are highly interesting. Considering his "iris of grace" it could imply he himself is the one mesmerized but reading that items description tells us it was used by erdtree people to 'magnificent effect' in the shadow lands. Perhaps it's supposed to be ironic, mesmer and his army conquering and then assimilating them to their beliefs through propaganda literally in their eyes while mesmer himself simultaneously being mesmerized by marika.
It's cool how little is actually required. Pretty much just Messmer, Romina and Radahn, since Dancing Lion, Rellana and Golden Hippo are skippable. I think I got up to like blessing lvl 18 before fighting Messmer. The world design remained a highlight, though I do agree that many of the areas felt a little empty, more for screenshots and chill exploration. For as "late-game" as DLC-access is, it was a little disappointing that a lot of the weapons/spells/ashes/spirits sucked so bad, so I basically didn't change my build or spells at all except for Knight's Lightning Spear and the +3 resistance talismans, though mainly because my build was already set and good at that point. They already nerfed some of the broken stuff, so hopefully they'll buff some of the terrible gear too. Regarding the need to switch to a greatshield/poke build, that's basically how I started the series back in Demon's Souls and Dark Souls, when they were just as overpowered, and the power of blocking took a dip in the next several games before coming way back up in Elden Ring. It might've seemed a weird and unnecessary build option to people that joined later on in DS3, Bloodborne and Sekiro, but it's really more of a callback to the start of the series when it was the "easy mode". Of course, people have beaten Radahn at lvl 1 with just dodging and parrying, so it was never "required" to switch to that build, it was just a good counter to that boss to finish it faster, when people probably could've been switching their builds and strategy for more bosses than just that one (if they were having trouble).
Hearing them talk about Elden Ring showing off the several ruined empires stacked on top of each other, makes me reminiscent of Jacob's "After a City is Buried" video, and I now have this feeling to rewatch that essay
I didn't give up learning the last boss moveset entirely because the hours I spent on it were still the final hours playing one of the best games i've played in a long time. Almost felt like "sure why not".
Jacob you did such a great job hosting! I played this game Kyle style and it's very fun to listen to this and hear about everything I completely missed.
Fantastic discussion. I really like the variety of perspectives brought in from different play styles to views on the narrative of Elden Ring. Y’all have good chemistry! I haven’t watched much other Min-Max content but I'm curious to check out more. There's a few folks in comments reacting strongly to Renata but personally for me she brings good energy to the discussion. While I don’t agree with all her takes throughout, I respect her bringing a thoughtful & funny lens to the game chat. Props for also shutting down the "Messmer ain't so bad" idea I've seen floating around online, that shit was lowkey hilarious! I do want to comment that the discussion around game’s marketing felt a bit flat. Don’t get me wrong, marketing media is typically vibes focused and not always accurate to the final product we see in game. FromSoft doesn’t roll that way though. Especially with Elden Ring. So much from the reveal trailer to the DLC story trailer is intentional. Heck man, they put a secret in the ER story trailer that was explained 3 years later in the DLC, at the end of the game no less! FromSoft uses the marketing of Elden Ring to also tell the story and world-build before you even hit play. All the people in this podcast get that they don’t tell stories in conventional ways and it's important to keep that in mind, even for the media outside the game. TLDR; FromSoft put a lot of love and intention into their storytelling and I'd love to see more discussion on that if ya'll decide to do anymore Elden Ring centric episodes in the future. Great work!
On the topic of playing online or offline and whether the messages add or take away from the experience, I ended up playing about half of the DLC online and the other half offline and I gotta say while I enjoyed the community aspect of reading, rating and writing messages I think I preferred the immersiveness and suspense of playing offline. I consider myself very lucky that I stumbled my way into the Abyssal Woods while playing offline and got to experience it all alone, without online messages guiding me or distracting me from the creepy atmosphere. I've since read people's opinions on that section of the game and it seems many found it disappointing because the area was so empty and the Winter Lanterns didn't feel like a real threat because you could parry them, but that's the thing, you don't have any of that information if you're playing offline! It's the *not knowing* that made the area so memorable to me.
I played the same way as Kyle, but on Xbox. I had no Live subscription so I played without the messages, player character ghosts, or bloodstains. I definitely feel more immersed this way.
I could never play these games offline. Online is so much more fun. I’m actually annoyed that you can’t get randomly invaded in Elden Ring unless you’re doing coop.
the reaction to renata's contributions in the comments is kinda baffling she didnt really interrupt very often, and where she did she was chiming in and building off of or adding on to what the other person was saying, y'all seem to be taking the most uncharitable read possible and it's really bizarre there are a couple moments where she's wrong, but no more often than anyone else, i get it if some of you maybe just don't vibe with her sense of humour or something but if I was in her position reading these comments it'd be so demoralising especially after in both this and the armored core deepest dive having some really brilliant and unique insights on a like, literary and academic level
I really enjoyed the contrast of Renata's thematic analysis and use of several weapons against Kyle just vibing out with the same weapon not having any idea what's going on.
Proud to say I personally beat Radahn by parrying and using Darkmoon Greatsword. To quote someone else, “Gwyn with extra steps” was how I felt after getting my ass kicked for three days straight.
Renata's constant butting in and stepping on the comments of other guests make this podcast almost completely unenjoyable. Please don't invite her to future episodes!
The best thing about souls lore is its up for interpretation for the most part. Hearing different takes is what i like about these deep dives. No need for corrections. @coreymaurer862
@@josephchapman5040lol, sometimes sure. If you don’t know what you’re talking about, having someone that does, is helpful. So I’m in disagreement with the OP
@@coreymaurer862 she doesn’t really know what she’s talking about though. She got half the lore wrong. She even said Marika slaughtered her own people which was weird. Plus she seems more obsessed with “twinks” than she does about the actual lore of the game.
I think it’s a pretty fatal flaw in terms of design if the final boss forces you to- because of how unbalanced it is - respec your build and use a completely different weapon set to defeat him. That’s how I felt after doing the same with Radhan and it left a very bitter taste in my mouth indeed. From seriously need to reconsider their approach to boss designs in general as I enjoyed very few of the bosses in the DLC because of how spammy many of them were.
I really enjoyed Renata's commentery here. She is the only one that presnted me with perpectives and readings about the game that I wasn't wholly familiar with. And i honestly don't get the hate she is getting here. You can't blame someone for just having a ton intresting insights to share. And also another thing i want to point out about elden ring and in general all other fromsoftware games is that they are all metaphors with two sets of meaning. They are metaphores about the idealogies and religions that shaped history(or in short about history of mankind) and also really spritual and personal metaphors that are about the diffrent facets of the human conciousness and the way they interact with each other (or in short about our personal magical and ideological way in life). While i really enjoy most of the reading the community has offered on this game, i think its really crucial to get both perspectives. For me elden ring is a game that is at once about the history of mankind and also about me. Peace
Well the beauty of From Software games is you can take as much or as little as you want from the story and it doesn’t detract from how good the games are.
@@Magic7ball nah I would never say they talk about it too much I meant more like I clearly have not read any item descriptions or engaged with any lore videos. Mohg to me is just fat blood guy there's no distinct personalities among the bosses to me outside of how they look and fight.
Great pod. Would love to hear a further chat with Kyle & maybe Ben or Jacob on the whole thing of missing NPC storylines, not grasping crazy builds etc, cause I'm very Kyle-minded it seems. I love these games but only beat DS1 and kinda 70%d every other one, and I think there's really a conversation to be had on not difficulty at all but just like... how do different people wrap their heads around these -- and genuinely are any of them doing so without constant reddit threads & youtube channels explaining heaps of stuff? Can you get by with the notes from other players? I always play offline for immersion, maybe my mistake. I'd love to play the next FromSoft game with them on AND with a notebook to write down lore, NPC stuff, maybe be braver with weapons... but with no offence & lots of admiration to the games (and appreciation of obscurity in games), the biggest/loudest fans of these games all spout the same meme lines about the lore or same build setups very often that makes me think they are all looking up the same stuff? Which is fine but I'd love if the game can give you everything realistically in the game. Rambling now, thanks for the content :)
Renata was the perfect person to have on this DD. I wish I could see the game with same level of love. Maybe if they add some accessibility features, but as is, it's equal parts beautiful and pointlessly frustrating. I don't benefit from the brain chemistry that makes overcoming bosses satisfying, so every giant health bar I see is just a roadblock in the way of what I actually like about the game.
I haven’t watched the episode yet, but I can tell you that after beating him there isn’t much. A small cutscene which I honestly can’t remember right now. It’s the journey. I hope that helps. Good luck!
Ren is so insufferable. She's constantly overriding the perspectives of the rest of the crew and exudes a stuffy sense of condescending self-importance. She should listen more and speak less.
Passion and nerdiness is fun! It's not fun when it suffocates everyone else's ability to just think out loud and express themselves. Felt like people just kept getting shut down and after every one of Ren's monologue's everyone else just had to be like "oh. okay I guess. well moving on I guess....". Just a lack of social etiquette if nothing else. Makes perfect sense that Kyle seemed to be the least put off by this because he was happy to just not have any any of his own answers or strong opinions on anything (not a criticism btw, I love Kyle and find his easygoing "I'm a dummy who doesn't know anything about this game and played it the wrong way" thing really funny).
Ben often says that this is the most in-depth discussion on games on the internet and has challenged viewers to prove him wrong. I think I found the true title holders. Resonant Arc here in YT - www.youtube.com/@ResonantArc Here are a few of their deep dives listed with the number of episodes and roughly total runtime of the coverage: Planescape Torment - 6 - 9:04:00 Outer Wilds - 6 - 8:34:00 Xenosaga II - 5 - 9:48:00 Tactics Ogre Series - 10 - 16:46:00 These guys go hard.
The Promised Consort does exactly what Orphan, Gael and Isshin all did extremely well. They all give the player a tough as fuck FINAL boss that test the patience of the player and push the limits of what the average player can overcome. Based on this roster of bosses, I think FromSoftware sooner than later is gonna put out a game where defense and offense flow into one another even more smoothly than in Sekiro and Bloodborne, with acrobatic defense that leverages position and rewards extreme aggression. It feels like the next big step for them to continue to push the anime features by introducing more complex evasion for the player. They would absolutely nail a dark fantasy adaption of Avatar/Korra. The bosses of Elden Ring could be even more aggressive if the player had both the moves of the Hunter and Wolf. Imagine the Fire Giant as three phases but instead its full SOTC after you damage its foot first phase, that would be the best fight in the game.
I love that Ren is pushing back at the half-conclusions because honestly? way too many people take a genocidal tyrant's human quirks as "redeeming qualities" and as low-stakes as this might be, it's good to keep stuff like this in mind because thought patterns do be patterin'.
Not that anyone will read this, but ER was our (Plural system) first souls game, our friends got us into it as we adore hard games and grew up playing the hardest stuff you can find from Castlevania to Ninja Gaiden Black and so many more. But due to multiple chronic illnessess, the Souls games are ableist as fuck and it put us off. But ER looked sooooo good, so, 3 months ago, they got us into it to play CO-OP and build a file in time for the DLC. What proceeded to happen was an obsession, 300 hours later and while playing CO-OP with 2 friends, also had another COOP file with 1 friend and a solo file. The solo file was blasted through, finished it and Erdtree and NG+ both base game and Erdtree all before finishing it in CO-OP. Our friends suffered through so many bosses and we just 1 and done’d them. Honestly a lil disappointed how easy the game was, especially the DLC. Finished the base game at level 155 and went right into Erdtree, at first we hated the new way to navigate the map and finding anything was impossible so we just beelined the main story, basically doing Lion, Renalla, Hippo all first time. Messmer took 7 attempts, Romani? The centipede, forget the full name, Bayle, the Madness boss in the woods, all 1 and done and many many more. Got upto the Consort at scadu 13, almost beat him on the 2nd try and then 6 hours of wiping, leveling up new weapons, wiping, trying new armour, wiping, trying new spirit summons, wiping, finding more Scadu fragments and maxing out at 20 and then finally in hour 7 at Scadu 20, beat him. It truly sucks that we adore hard games and got into this as we were told it was super hard and with the exception of the literal final damn boss of the DLC, everything was either a 1 and done or under 10. The game, is genuinely a masterpiece but also has some serious issues, crafting, buffs, items of any kind, just didn’t bother with as we didn’t have a clue what to do with them, where to get more, so we didn’t wanna run out so we just didn’t use them. We didn’t use spirit summons at all until Malenia when after 5 deaths a friend told us “Oh yeah you should use the mimic” and we did and won first try after. So little is told, tracked, monitored, we beat every single boss but missed every single quest. Found every cave and catacomb but didn’t get any NPC summons at all as we didn’t do quest lines. Immediately jumped into NG+ and followed a full guide just to do the quests and honestly, they add so little to the experience. NG+ did have a little more difficulty, like 1 and done’d Malenia and almost every other boss, but the Elden Beast was a 1 and done on base and took 4 tries on NG+ and a weapon change. Claws carried us through base game, Morgott’s Sword through Erdtree and NG+, the Dismounter for Consort and the rusty anchor for NG+ Elden Beast. Lionel’s armour was required for all the tough fights (So Consort, Malenia base game, Elden Beast NG) but the Guts Berserk DLC armour has been equipped since finding it. Spell casters feel like support only and as good as we are at this game in melee, if you beat this game using only spells, holy crap. Cause they suuuuuck, it’s impossible to get spells off against certain bosses as the attack window is tiny. Unless you’re using a spirit summon that’s designed to tank aggro, can’t honestly imagine how you win in this game without a good sword and good armour. It’s weird to both rave about this game but also slate it for so many things, mainly lack of info, but at the same time, we clearly didn’t need any of these things for the most part. We also had so many horrific glitches, some bosses were only failed first try as we couldn’t heal, or attack, or deal damage, or the frames dropped to 0 and took forever to catch up, bug after bug after bug. But yet still with all these complaints, top 20 game by far and maybe top 10. Phenomenal game with so much to praise. Just wish it was as hard as we heard. The COOP friends are stunned too as they’ve seen it in COOP, bosses they’re terrified of, we just run in and body and they sit asking “HOW?!” which has been a lil funny. And lastly it’s also weird that the things that grief everyone, didn’t phase us, but the things no one hates did. Tree Sentinels, especially Draconic, the overworld dragons, the grave birb’s, the great wyrms, the fucking erdtree’s themselves, HATE THEM, so many bosses that no one says are hard, rinsed us. Died to the dragon before Bayle 3 times then 1 and done’d Bayle. Died to the draconic tree sentinel before Maliketh, then 1 and done’d him on base and NG+. The rot trees in the Haligtree, those 2 rot trees, maybe 20 deaths over 2 play throughs, Malenia died 5 times in base game and 1 and done’d in NG+. The things no one says are hard are the things that destroy us lol
The bugs and Glitches you mention are really interesting, because I have never heard of them happening. The game was somewhat unstable FPS wise post release and that instability returned when the DLC came out. There were also some bugs that later got patched. But inability to heal, attack or even deal damage as well as frame rate drops all the way to 0? I am just curious, but what system were you using and was your game properly patched? I never experienced something similar and have not heard of this before. I would also like to ask, as a fellow disabled person, why you described the souls games as ableist. I assume it has something to do with the difficulty? But that seems unlikely since Elden Ring is, in my opion, the harder game. At least if someone (you for example) does not use summons nor the more unbalanced options. I hope you can reply :)
The amount of not understanding the game in this is so sad. I was very sad when Kyle was the one who missed so much stuff. It made me realize he was a Games Journalist meme seed for weirdos who think games journalists are bad 😔 Props to Podz though. Also, fun fact, Messmer was not sent to kill everyone. He was sent to kill the towerborn, also known as Hornsent. He did not kill the Miko ( Shaman if you prefer 🤬 english translations ) if he had killed the shaman, wouldn’t the houses be, oh I don’t know BURNED? Or does fire not work like that 😂🤣
@@Magic7ball fromsoft doesn't have storytelling. instead they a list of lore events and then just hide it all on random item descriptions and you have to piece it together like a detective sim. that's fine if you like it but it is the absense of storytelling, and the general consensus amongst from fans is their stories suck but they make great boss rush games
The amount of not understanding the game in this is so sad. I was very sad when Kyle was the one who missed so much stuff. It made me realize he was a Games Journalist meme seed for weirdos who think games journalists are bad 😔 Props to Podz though. Also, fun fact, Messmer was not sent to kill everyone. He was sent to kill the towerborn, also known as Hornsent. He did not kill the Miko ( Shaman if you prefer 🤬 english translations ) if he had killed the shaman, wouldn’t the houses be, oh I don’t know BURNED? Or does fire not work like that 😂🤣
@@lobben85 sarcasm is great. I can detect it, I can also just ignore it when it is done overtly sarcastic : ) I in fact used it in my comment. I even added silly emoji’s for right wing folks who cannot detect sarcasm or parody. You know, like the ones who think Starship Troopers is pro democracy
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For me, the greatest delight of Shadow of the Erdtree has been how much tighter and thematically resonant it has felt to me - it's all motherhood and abandonment, grace and night, yearning and scorn and mothers replacing mothers. It is, quite genuinely, literally everywhere in the DLC. Not to say that the base game didn't have anything going on, but the level of overt and deliberate repetition present here is really mesmerizing.
I appreciate your word choice at the end there.
It’s absolutely hilarious how clueless Kyle is playing this game, despite beating everything in his path
Makes me think of my friend and I going through our loadouts on DS3 and telling him I'm using the basic ass shield and a fully leveled broadsword. I just fumbled through the game with my friends and got my ass whooped like everybody else.
@@dinny1881 shield and broadsword is a totally viable build in all the games that contain it, and I love that
Well he definitely seems to have missed some stuff though. Such as Midra and Metyr.
Kyle is me and he’s the only reason I watch this
mohg definitely beat the allegations
Lol I’m with Renata though; knowing the lore, the Miquella thing is almost the LEAST bad thing that Mohg, Lord of Blood did!
Thats what im saying
@@incendiarypoprocks8700Well the “allegations” were that he kidnapped Miquella to marry and do other stuff to him. He absolutely beat those because now we know he was mind controlled and forced to do what he did, and it wasn’t even what we thought he was doing.
@@BasketCase-rr7txthey probably think being in a blood cult is bad, despite it just being another possible Order.
At least an age of blood would be better than Ranni’s….
Godwyns actual corpse is in the nameless eternal city at the "Prince of Death's Throne"
Those faces are in the base game as well. The "cadaver surrogates" one is in the bottom of stormviel castle
There actually is a boss in Charo’s Hidden Grave. There’s a Deathbird that descends from the sky where there are many minor deathbirds gathering. There’s also a goal there too.
It’s also the only Deathbird that comes out in the day too, which is an interesting bit of lore for the area as presumably it means that it’s always night there.
3 field bosses/bosses, 1 unique weapon, 1 ash of war, 2 cookbooks, along with all the “regular stuff”…lol
@@coreymaurer862 it's not really a big area to begin with
I would absolutely love the nerdiness and passion from Renata here IF it wasn't at the expense of anyone else's thoughts and opinions. Felt like nobody was allowed to get a word in without ren stepping in to completely invalidate whatever they said with an overly-confident sense of having authoritative knowledge.
I mean, damm, it's a fictional world. The whole point is that there is no objective world with objective truth and people get to interpret things in their own ways. Fromsoft's whole thing is cryptic lore that let's you fill in the details! If I was reading a book and every time I had a thought that wasn't "correct" and somebody stepped in to crucify me for it, I would stop reading.
Add to that the fact that she's just factually wrong about some of the few things that *are* objective (eg "x attack is literally undodgeable according to the frame data" when I've seen people do it repeatedly) makes it feel pretty bad. A know-it-all is frustrating. A know-it-all about a fictional world is worse. A know-it-all who's literally wrong and won't let people just have fun is... just too much for me.
If yr gonna disagree with everyone about everything, at least do it respectfully in a way that doesn't make everyone feel completely invalidated and shut down 😢
Yeah I wanted to listen but everytime someone else had a thought it was shut down
what the hell video did you people watch
she never shut down or invalidated anyone, if they felt that way I'm sure we'd know about it
not to mention jacob's comment at the end where he says she is "regularly the best part of these"
The weapons most definitely did not suck. The dragon great katana (can’t remember the exact name) made the dragon before Bayle an easy fight.
A lot of weird almost pretentious comments about how kyle plays but i actually really enjoyed his perspective of how being unaware of whats going on almost adds to the experience in a way
He doesnt really know that it added to the experience when he has never played it any other way. Plus he can play the game however he wants, but it dosent stop it being funny when hes so nonchalant about missing half the game.
@@BasketCase-rr7tx I do find it funny too I meant people who are annoyed by or mocking how he plays
@@jumponeverything Yeah, people who insists there is a right way to play souls games or get mad at people's differing play styles are insufferable. Who cares how Kyle plays? If Kyle has fun playing a video game, that's enough. I appreciate his perspective, it's kind of refreshing for someone who is enmeshed in From discourse.
I like that Bayle and Igon are a Song of Ice and Fire (Game of Thrones) reference.
Bayle the Dread and Igon = Balerion the Black Dread and his rider Aegon the Conqueror
Hi, love the content! I do wish to comment about the cast's take on story trailers contradicting the game. I don't think there is strong evidence to show that there is any contradictions. Miquella on Torrent is brought up as an example of such a contradiction, but this easily could be a scene from the past before Torrent is bestowed upon the Tarnished. This would be in theme with the trailers in general since they depict the past and not the present. This itself is in theme of the bulk of the narrative of the game itself depicting past events through the art and written item descriptions.
I like Ren but I wish she wouldn't steamroll others perspectives. No hate, just an observation.
I do really enjoy the perspectives she brings but it does sometimes feel she's presenting it as the objectively correct one
She's completely insufferable
Yeahhhh... I was getting frustrated by this repeatedly throughout the episode unfortunately. 😥
I don't think she's steamrolling others. I think she generally keeps up with the pace of the conversation, adds a lot in terms of lore and doesn't interpret people more than the others.
She was clearly trying to do a bit of social commentary by being so forceful with that opinion. It was obvious that she's read people sympathizing with Messmer online and wanted to clarify that despite his sympathetic backstory, did indeed Messmer commit genocide against the Hornsent.
Love this, but I wish Ben was here- He shouldn't have chickened out
morgotts cursed sword and mimic tear completely owned the final boss for me (plus had mohgs bloodboon equipped tbh whole dlc felt like an omen brothers revenge tour with me using their blood abilities haha)
I think Marika put the healing tree in an area that was genocided by the hornsent, not by her (though she genocided most of the rest of the shadowrealm I guess)
Yeah, don't really see Messmers as a good guy haha, but this beautiful area highlights how dark, lonely and tragic the entire affair has been, marika's Shire, the place of innocence she came from, preserved and abandoned (similar to Miquella I suppose), her following actions inspired by tragedy leading to further tragedy we've spent the whole game exploring, each generation being neglected and failed by the last only to do the same to the next
Yeah I was gonna chime in on the Shaman Village thing as well, Marika didn’t genocide her own people the Hornsent slaughtered them all to try and create crucible saints. It’s pretty clearly spelled out that the gross jar people are what’s left of Marika’s people after the Hornsent got done with them.
@@kit_racewe don’t know if she was complicit in that genocide though. There are a lot of holes the prevailing narrative from the YT lore people.
@@1925683 We don't really have anything that points to that being the case but we do have a lot of instances of ghosts and descriptions pointing to the Hornsent torturing and melding all the shamans in the jars for their own religious reasons. I'd rather err on the side of Occam's Razor for this since it requires a lot more assumptions to go "Marika did it" when we have all this evidence pointing to the Hornsent when it comes to the genocide of the Shamans.
@@1925683 Fromsoft lore is often somewhat vague, but from what I know of there is no indication that Marika was involved with the extermination of the Shamans, a claim like that would require specific evidence
Hearing what Kyle had to do to beat the final boss was so funny 🤣 We won but at what cost
That guys comment about the dude who created mesmerism sent me down a huge rabbit hole about animal magnetism. That idea - that all life, plants, animals, humans, share a fundamental, vital "life force energy" and that it is that energy which distinguishes life from non life - is very compelling in regards to the lore of elden ring. I can't shake the similarities of this idea and the crucible. Could this be how we are supposed to think of the crucible?
Mesmerism was also the precursor to hypnotism and the implications of this in regards to mesmers character in elden ring are highly interesting. Considering his "iris of grace" it could imply he himself is the one mesmerized but reading that items description tells us it was used by erdtree people to 'magnificent effect' in the shadow lands. Perhaps it's supposed to be ironic, mesmer and his army conquering and then assimilating them to their beliefs through propaganda literally in their eyes while mesmer himself simultaneously being mesmerized by marika.
It's cool how little is actually required. Pretty much just Messmer, Romina and Radahn, since Dancing Lion, Rellana and Golden Hippo are skippable. I think I got up to like blessing lvl 18 before fighting Messmer. The world design remained a highlight, though I do agree that many of the areas felt a little empty, more for screenshots and chill exploration.
For as "late-game" as DLC-access is, it was a little disappointing that a lot of the weapons/spells/ashes/spirits sucked so bad, so I basically didn't change my build or spells at all except for Knight's Lightning Spear and the +3 resistance talismans, though mainly because my build was already set and good at that point. They already nerfed some of the broken stuff, so hopefully they'll buff some of the terrible gear too.
Regarding the need to switch to a greatshield/poke build, that's basically how I started the series back in Demon's Souls and Dark Souls, when they were just as overpowered, and the power of blocking took a dip in the next several games before coming way back up in Elden Ring. It might've seemed a weird and unnecessary build option to people that joined later on in DS3, Bloodborne and Sekiro, but it's really more of a callback to the start of the series when it was the "easy mode". Of course, people have beaten Radahn at lvl 1 with just dodging and parrying, so it was never "required" to switch to that build, it was just a good counter to that boss to finish it faster, when people probably could've been switching their builds and strategy for more bosses than just that one (if they were having trouble).
Hearing them talk about Elden Ring showing off the several ruined empires stacked on top of each other, makes me reminiscent of Jacob's "After a City is Buried" video, and I now have this feeling to rewatch that essay
I didn't give up learning the last boss moveset entirely because the hours I spent on it were still the final hours playing one of the best games i've played in a long time. Almost felt like "sure why not".
I think Kyle missed half the game. 😂
What an incredible video game, I cannot believe something this awesome exists.
Really fun deepest dive, Renata's a little extra though.
a friend of mine just killed Igon on site the first time he met him. I couldn't believe it.
Jacob you did such a great job hosting! I played this game Kyle style and it's very fun to listen to this and hear about everything I completely missed.
Fantastic discussion. I really like the variety of perspectives brought in from different play styles to views on the narrative of Elden Ring. Y’all have good chemistry! I haven’t watched much other Min-Max content but I'm curious to check out more. There's a few folks in comments reacting strongly to Renata but personally for me she brings good energy to the discussion. While I don’t agree with all her takes throughout, I respect her bringing a thoughtful & funny lens to the game chat. Props for also shutting down the "Messmer ain't so bad" idea I've seen floating around online, that shit was lowkey hilarious!
I do want to comment that the discussion around game’s marketing felt a bit flat. Don’t get me wrong, marketing media is typically vibes focused and not always accurate to the final product we see in game. FromSoft doesn’t roll that way though. Especially with Elden Ring. So much from the reveal trailer to the DLC story trailer is intentional. Heck man, they put a secret in the ER story trailer that was explained 3 years later in the DLC, at the end of the game no less! FromSoft uses the marketing of Elden Ring to also tell the story and world-build before you even hit play. All the people in this podcast get that they don’t tell stories in conventional ways and it's important to keep that in mind, even for the media outside the game. TLDR; FromSoft put a lot of love and intention into their storytelling and I'd love to see more discussion on that if ya'll decide to do anymore Elden Ring centric episodes in the future. Great work!
On the topic of playing online or offline and whether the messages add or take away from the experience, I ended up playing about half of the DLC online and the other half offline and I gotta say while I enjoyed the community aspect of reading, rating and writing messages I think I preferred the immersiveness and suspense of playing offline. I consider myself very lucky that I stumbled my way into the Abyssal Woods while playing offline and got to experience it all alone, without online messages guiding me or distracting me from the creepy atmosphere. I've since read people's opinions on that section of the game and it seems many found it disappointing because the area was so empty and the Winter Lanterns didn't feel like a real threat because you could parry them, but that's the thing, you don't have any of that information if you're playing offline! It's the *not knowing* that made the area so memorable to me.
I cannot bear to listen to this episode without a lot of skipping.
I played the same way as Kyle, but on Xbox. I had no Live subscription so I played without the messages, player character ghosts, or bloodstains. I definitely feel more immersed this way.
I could never play these games offline. Online is so much more fun. I’m actually annoyed that you can’t get randomly invaded in Elden Ring unless you’re doing coop.
the reaction to renata's contributions in the comments is kinda baffling
she didnt really interrupt very often, and where she did she was chiming in and building off of or adding on to what the other person was saying, y'all seem to be taking the most uncharitable read possible and it's really bizarre
there are a couple moments where she's wrong, but no more often than anyone else, i get it if some of you maybe just don't vibe with her sense of humour or something but if I was in her position reading these comments it'd be so demoralising
especially after in both this and the armored core deepest dive having some really brilliant and unique insights on a like, literary and academic level
Anyone else beat Radhan with the pre-patch carian thursting shield?
I used the pre patch rolling sparks.
No I'm not ashamed, I stopped having fun fighting Radahn
I really enjoyed the contrast of Renata's thematic analysis and use of several weapons against Kyle just vibing out with the same weapon not having any idea what's going on.
the dlc weapons sucks?! lol the dlc has the most busted items in the whole game!
Proud to say I personally beat Radahn by parrying and using Darkmoon Greatsword. To quote someone else, “Gwyn with extra steps” was how I felt after getting my ass kicked for three days straight.
Renata's constant butting in and stepping on the comments of other guests make this podcast almost completely unenjoyable. Please don't invite her to future episodes!
I didn’t get that. I heard her correcting people sometimes. Probably the person that understood some of the lore the best. 🤷♂️
The best thing about souls lore is its up for interpretation for the most part. Hearing different takes is what i like about these deep dives. No need for corrections. @coreymaurer862
@@josephchapman5040lol, sometimes sure. If you don’t know what you’re talking about, having someone that does, is helpful. So I’m in disagreement with the OP
@@coreymaurer862 she doesn’t really know what she’s talking about though. She got half the lore wrong. She even said Marika slaughtered her own people which was weird. Plus she seems more obsessed with “twinks” than she does about the actual lore of the game.
@@josephchapman5040there’s a lot that isn’t up for interpretation as well, she’s annoying af and was wrong about quite a bit of her statements
I think it’s a pretty fatal flaw in terms of design if the final boss forces you to- because of how unbalanced it is - respec your build and use a completely different weapon set to defeat him. That’s how I felt after doing the same with Radhan and it left a very bitter taste in my mouth indeed. From seriously need to reconsider their approach to boss designs in general as I enjoyed very few of the bosses in the DLC because of how spammy many of them were.
I really enjoyed Renata's commentery here. She is the only one that presnted me with perpectives and readings about the game that I wasn't wholly familiar with. And i honestly don't get the hate she is getting here. You can't blame someone for just having a ton intresting insights to share.
And also another thing i want to point out about elden ring and in general all other fromsoftware games is that they are all metaphors with two sets of meaning. They are metaphores about the idealogies and religions that shaped history(or in short about history of mankind) and also really spritual and personal metaphors that are about the diffrent facets of the human conciousness and the way they interact with each other (or in short about our personal magical and ideological way in life).
While i really enjoy most of the reading the community has offered on this game, i think its really crucial to get both perspectives.
For me elden ring is a game that is at once about the history of mankind and also about me.
Peace
Well done! All the more, still no lover.
The way people talk about the story in this makes me feel like we played different games lol
Well the beauty of From Software games is you can take as much or as little as you want from the story and it doesn’t detract from how good the games are.
Do you mean they got the story wrong? or they talk about the story too much?
@@Magic7ball nah I would never say they talk about it too much I meant more like I clearly have not read any item descriptions or engaged with any lore videos. Mohg to me is just fat blood guy there's no distinct personalities among the bosses to me outside of how they look and fight.
I unga bunga'd Radahn with cold greatsword and savage lions claw😂
Great pod. Would love to hear a further chat with Kyle & maybe Ben or Jacob on the whole thing of missing NPC storylines, not grasping crazy builds etc, cause I'm very Kyle-minded it seems. I love these games but only beat DS1 and kinda 70%d every other one, and I think there's really a conversation to be had on not difficulty at all but just like... how do different people wrap their heads around these -- and genuinely are any of them doing so without constant reddit threads & youtube channels explaining heaps of stuff? Can you get by with the notes from other players? I always play offline for immersion, maybe my mistake. I'd love to play the next FromSoft game with them on AND with a notebook to write down lore, NPC stuff, maybe be braver with weapons... but with no offence & lots of admiration to the games (and appreciation of obscurity in games), the biggest/loudest fans of these games all spout the same meme lines about the lore or same build setups very often that makes me think they are all looking up the same stuff? Which is fine but I'd love if the game can give you everything realistically in the game. Rambling now, thanks for the content :)
Renata was the perfect person to have on this DD. I wish I could see the game with same level of love. Maybe if they add some accessibility features, but as is, it's equal parts beautiful and pointlessly frustrating. I don't benefit from the brain chemistry that makes overcoming bosses satisfying, so every giant health bar I see is just a roadblock in the way of what I actually like about the game.
I'm very stuck on Rahdan but dying to watch this... Will I spoil myself too bad if I watch before he's dead?
I haven’t watched the episode yet, but I can tell you that after beating him there isn’t much. A small cutscene which I honestly can’t remember right now. It’s the journey.
I hope that helps. Good luck!
@@bdbrady bless you this is exactly what I needed to hear 🤝🏻
I wish Renata was in more minnmax stuff. Her overabundant enthusiasm and care for nerdy analysis is always a joy to hear.
Ren is so insufferable. She's constantly overriding the perspectives of the rest of the crew and exudes a stuffy sense of condescending self-importance. She should listen more and speak less.
Passion and nerdiness is fun! It's not fun when it suffocates everyone else's ability to just think out loud and express themselves. Felt like people just kept getting shut down and after every one of Ren's monologue's everyone else just had to be like "oh. okay I guess. well moving on I guess....". Just a lack of social etiquette if nothing else.
Makes perfect sense that Kyle seemed to be the least put off by this because he was happy to just not have any any of his own answers or strong opinions on anything (not a criticism btw, I love Kyle and find his easygoing "I'm a dummy who doesn't know anything about this game and played it the wrong way" thing really funny).
I am going to leave a “like” right away before playing this video! ❤️
What are the examples of Fromsoft marketing creating canon that was contradicted by the game lore? Was hoping she'd give an example of that
I really like what Renate brings to the conversation. She's incredibly intelligent and insightful.
I know we say there’s no wrong way to play this game but Kyle definitely played it wrong.
are we sure he played it?
It's so funny lmao. And he's the first to admit it! I love it.
Why is Kyle here wasteman
Ben often says that this is the most in-depth discussion on games on the internet and has challenged viewers to prove him wrong. I think I found the true title holders.
Resonant Arc here in YT - www.youtube.com/@ResonantArc
Here are a few of their deep dives listed with the number of episodes and roughly total runtime of the coverage:
Planescape Torment - 6 - 9:04:00
Outer Wilds - 6 - 8:34:00
Xenosaga II - 5 - 9:48:00
Tactics Ogre Series - 10 - 16:46:00
These guys go hard.
Nah man, i saw what the hornsent were doing with the jars. Messmer did nothing wrong.
Loved hearing Ren’s perspective on the DLC, miss her on Remap Radio!
The Promised Consort does exactly what Orphan, Gael and Isshin all did extremely well. They all give the player a tough as fuck FINAL boss that test the patience of the player and push the limits of what the average player can overcome.
Based on this roster of bosses, I think FromSoftware sooner than later is gonna put out a game where defense and offense flow into one another even more smoothly than in Sekiro and Bloodborne, with acrobatic defense that leverages position and rewards extreme aggression. It feels like the next big step for them to continue to push the anime features by introducing more complex evasion for the player.
They would absolutely nail a dark fantasy adaption of Avatar/Korra. The bosses of Elden Ring could be even more aggressive if the player had both the moves of the Hunter and Wolf. Imagine the Fire Giant as three phases but instead its full SOTC after you damage its foot first phase, that would be the best fight in the game.
Playing on new game 7 does make a difference
I love that Ren is pushing back at the half-conclusions because honestly? way too many people take a genocidal tyrant's human quirks as "redeeming qualities" and as low-stakes as this might be, it's good to keep stuff like this in mind because thought patterns do be patterin'.
Not that anyone will read this, but ER was our (Plural system) first souls game, our friends got us into it as we adore hard games and grew up playing the hardest stuff you can find from Castlevania to Ninja Gaiden Black and so many more. But due to multiple chronic illnessess, the Souls games are ableist as fuck and it put us off.
But ER looked sooooo good, so, 3 months ago, they got us into it to play CO-OP and build a file in time for the DLC.
What proceeded to happen was an obsession, 300 hours later and while playing CO-OP with 2 friends, also had another COOP file with 1 friend and a solo file.
The solo file was blasted through, finished it and Erdtree and NG+ both base game and Erdtree all before finishing it in CO-OP.
Our friends suffered through so many bosses and we just 1 and done’d them.
Honestly a lil disappointed how easy the game was, especially the DLC.
Finished the base game at level 155 and went right into Erdtree, at first we hated the new way to navigate the map and finding anything was impossible so we just beelined the main story, basically doing Lion, Renalla, Hippo all first time. Messmer took 7 attempts, Romani? The centipede, forget the full name, Bayle, the Madness boss in the woods, all 1 and done and many many more.
Got upto the Consort at scadu 13, almost beat him on the 2nd try and then 6 hours of wiping, leveling up new weapons, wiping, trying new armour, wiping, trying new spirit summons, wiping, finding more Scadu fragments and maxing out at 20 and then finally in hour 7 at Scadu 20, beat him.
It truly sucks that we adore hard games and got into this as we were told it was super hard and with the exception of the literal final damn boss of the DLC, everything was either a 1 and done or under 10.
The game, is genuinely a masterpiece but also has some serious issues, crafting, buffs, items of any kind, just didn’t bother with as we didn’t have a clue what to do with them, where to get more, so we didn’t wanna run out so we just didn’t use them.
We didn’t use spirit summons at all until Malenia when after 5 deaths a friend told us “Oh yeah you should use the mimic” and we did and won first try after.
So little is told, tracked, monitored, we beat every single boss but missed every single quest. Found every cave and catacomb but didn’t get any NPC summons at all as we didn’t do quest lines.
Immediately jumped into NG+ and followed a full guide just to do the quests and honestly, they add so little to the experience. NG+ did have a little more difficulty, like 1 and done’d Malenia and almost every other boss, but the Elden Beast was a 1 and done on base and took 4 tries on NG+ and a weapon change.
Claws carried us through base game, Morgott’s Sword through Erdtree and NG+, the Dismounter for Consort and the rusty anchor for NG+ Elden Beast.
Lionel’s armour was required for all the tough fights (So Consort, Malenia base game, Elden Beast NG) but the Guts Berserk DLC armour has been equipped since finding it. Spell casters feel like support only and as good as we are at this game in melee, if you beat this game using only spells, holy crap. Cause they suuuuuck, it’s impossible to get spells off against certain bosses as the attack window is tiny.
Unless you’re using a spirit summon that’s designed to tank aggro, can’t honestly imagine how you win in this game without a good sword and good armour.
It’s weird to both rave about this game but also slate it for so many things, mainly lack of info, but at the same time, we clearly didn’t need any of these things for the most part.
We also had so many horrific glitches, some bosses were only failed first try as we couldn’t heal, or attack, or deal damage, or the frames dropped to 0 and took forever to catch up, bug after bug after bug.
But yet still with all these complaints, top 20 game by far and maybe top 10. Phenomenal game with so much to praise.
Just wish it was as hard as we heard.
The COOP friends are stunned too as they’ve seen it in COOP, bosses they’re terrified of, we just run in and body and they sit asking “HOW?!” which has been a lil funny.
And lastly it’s also weird that the things that grief everyone, didn’t phase us, but the things no one hates did.
Tree Sentinels, especially Draconic, the overworld dragons, the grave birb’s, the great wyrms, the fucking erdtree’s themselves, HATE THEM, so many bosses that no one says are hard, rinsed us.
Died to the dragon before Bayle 3 times then 1 and done’d Bayle.
Died to the draconic tree sentinel before Maliketh, then 1 and done’d him on base and NG+.
The rot trees in the Haligtree, those 2 rot trees, maybe 20 deaths over 2 play throughs, Malenia died 5 times in base game and 1 and done’d in NG+.
The things no one says are hard are the things that destroy us lol
The bugs and Glitches you mention are really interesting, because I have never heard of them happening. The game was somewhat unstable FPS wise post release and that instability returned when the DLC came out. There were also some bugs that later got patched. But inability to heal, attack or even deal damage as well as frame rate drops all the way to 0? I am just curious, but what system were you using and was your game properly patched? I never experienced something similar and have not heard of this before.
I would also like to ask, as a fellow disabled person, why you described the souls games as ableist. I assume it has something to do with the difficulty? But that seems unlikely since Elden Ring is, in my opion, the harder game. At least if someone (you for example) does not use summons nor the more unbalanced options.
I hope you can reply :)
Enjoyed Renata absolutely refusing to hand it to Messmer
Too much interrupting
The amount of not understanding the game in this is so sad. I was very sad when Kyle was the one who missed so much stuff. It made me realize he was a Games Journalist meme seed for weirdos who think games journalists are bad 😔
Props to Podz though.
Also, fun fact, Messmer was not sent to kill everyone. He was sent to kill the towerborn, also known as Hornsent. He did not kill the Miko ( Shaman if you prefer 🤬 english translations ) if he had killed the shaman, wouldn’t the houses be, oh I don’t know BURNED? Or does fire not work like that 😂🤣
Seriously fr. So skibidi meme seed like a sussy girlboss
1:49:30 Ren down bad and I'm here for it
Elden Ring has a story? lol
Yes.
Considering there are more lore and story videos about Elden Ring on You Tube than any other game released within the last 5 years I would say yes.
I genuinely like Fromsoft stories and storytelling more than 95% of games. And the other 5% would be from indies or other RPG's
@@Magic7ball fromsoft doesn't have storytelling. instead they a list of lore events and then just hide it all on random item descriptions and you have to piece it together like a detective sim. that's fine if you like it but it is the absense of storytelling, and the general consensus amongst from fans is their stories suck but they make great boss rush games
@@xob-h8s i just gave you my opinion and you're telling me I'm "wrong." Seems like you have some problems going on so I'll leave you alone
Ren is the damn best. Please bring her back!
The amount of not understanding the game in this is so sad. I was very sad when Kyle was the one who missed so much stuff. It made me realize he was a Games Journalist meme seed for weirdos who think games journalists are bad 😔
Props to Podz though.
Also, fun fact, Messmer was not sent to kill everyone. He was sent to kill the towerborn, also known as Hornsent. He did not kill the Miko ( Shaman if you prefer 🤬 english translations ) if he had killed the shaman, wouldn’t the houses be, oh I don’t know BURNED? Or does fire not work like that 😂🤣
Seriously fr. So skibidi meme seed like a sussy girlboss
WOW, you understand everything that's happening 😮 And you know the word Miko😮 Holy shit you're cool!!!
@@lobben85 never thought reading comprehension and research would be seen as cool. Then again, social media, so…. Yeah not surprising.
@@IMRavnos reading comprehension, but not sarcasm huh 🤔
@@lobben85 sarcasm is great. I can detect it, I can also just ignore it when it is done overtly sarcastic : ) I in fact used it in my comment. I even added silly emoji’s for right wing folks who cannot detect sarcasm or parody. You know, like the ones who think Starship Troopers is pro democracy