Something that struck me as very interesting that I hadn't noticed until watching your excellent breakdown of this book is the particular veneration of cattle. Livestock is mentioned in several places in the old testament. The bull is the idol of the God Baal for example. And the influences of Eastern theology aren't easily traced until the 3rd century bce with the development of the Silk Road trade routes. So it would be fascinating to know if there was an influence from India on Mesopotamia during the Babylonian or Assyrian empires or if the worship of cattle is just one of the many similarities we see among all world religions independently developed.
Thank you so much for this presentation. For the first time in my 51 years as a Christian I am utterly and profoundly shocked to see from your presentation how seriously non-sensical and non-credible the Book of Jonah is, I have always had a respected and warm benefit-of-the-doubt view of the Book. Wow, this is a painful head-turning revelation.
@Chuck-se5hh It's tough when you first see all the contradictions and inconsistencies....l was 50 years a believer, but now two years on the other side. Never felt so free, to be honest! All the best with your journey. There's lots of support on this channel for honest folks. 😊
It's one stage further than, "and then everyone clapped" as it's, "and then everyone clapped, even the animals!" But what would the animals be repenting for?
The animals felt bad about pooping in the streets, I guess. I have no idea how animal repentance is meant to work. Maybe Jonah was having a bit of a laugh?
I love how Jonah pulls up a chair outside the city waiting for destruction on the city . I just picture him sitting there with popcorn ready for the brimstone
Well said! Yes, God is so stupidly weird and inconsistent, doing weird useless things like this but utterly failing to do necessary things like healing us of bodily diseases and sicknesses when we desperately need it. He ought to be thoroughly ashamed of himself. He needs to get his priorities straight.
I just argued with a Christian about this the other day. I was using Jonah as an example of how free will doesn't work with their god because Jonah was actively avoiding god. I stated if god cared about free will, he would have left Jonah alone. The person argued that god "knew" Jonah was for great things and was ensuring Jonah lived up to his potential. BUT we still have free will to "choose" if we follow god or not. It was the most frustrating thing this week.
I have never learned more about the Bible than I did here. I meant to reply yesterday when the video came out. I was never as into the faith as you were when I was younger, but I was very close to falling in with a so-called non-denominational sect back in high school (class of '02) before realizing to my chagrin they were no different from other garden variety evangelicals. Even my dad, at the time also seeking a furthering of his own faith, saw through their BS. Channels like yours are so important.
I actually did a sermon series on this when I was a Campus Minister, before I left the church and became agnostic. It is a pretty beautiful narrative where we can really relate to Jonah in our faults and running so to speak. The big issue, of course is it also showcases the unfairness of God, who was willing to eradicate the entire world with a flood, as well as Sodom and Gomorrah, yet he was willing to forgive this group. At the very least, this book can showcase God’s unfairness to humanity.
@@QuestionThingsUseLogic I realized that I got the quote wrong. It's supposed to be "Happily ever after" not "Happily forever". It's been a few decades since I watched one of the Disney classics lol.
I get nostalgic when I read the bible. Sigh, the good ole days of praying and studying and praising. lol. I am embarrassed now. I love this channel its a space for embarrassed ex believers. So beautiful it is to be free of dogma and the chains of religion.
@@christophergibson7155 it’s embarrassing because it’s cringey, cheesy and most importantly a lie. Imagine following a lie to be cringey and cheesy…trust me we know you’re in love with Jesus to the point you want to be his boyfriend.
I got to speak to my Ma yesterday about the character of Yahweh, just asking her some questions about things he does in the bible. It wslas the first time she has not shut down the conversation and really responded. I'm not trying to convince her of anything, I'm just asking questions. I don't think I would have had this moment without having seen some of your videos. I actually like that even when he is being, arguably, the good guy, most people we know in our daily lives are better and more moral beings. Thank you for this series and your others videos 💚🧡
Hard to believe youre almost halfway done with the bible, at least in terms of books. Love the videos, and I can't wait to hear your thoughts on the new testament when you get there.
Concerning authorship - to me it comes across like D&D collaborative fiction, many authors pitching in their ideas, usually no one skilled enough or with enough authority to connect it all, make it cohesive, consistent, or provide sound plot flow. What a crazy story that really brings you all over the place which undermines whatever message it was trying to deliver. Thanks, Brandon!
I have a set of Thieves' World books from the 80s that was authored by a group of fantasy authors. Each had a central character or set of characters they wrote about, but all the characters were living in the same city and encountering one another. There was a note at the start that while characters may appear to have different motivations, reputations etc, this was due to the point of view of the person telling the story, and not actually an inconsistency. BUT the pertinent facts always stayed the same. If X and Y went to embalm a body, say, and found the tomb empty, then another character wouldn't say it was actually A and B and there was an angel in the tomb, unless someone specifically told them a fake story to cover something up.
It is not a wonder that you do not understand what you are reading in the Book of Jonah. it is because you must be "born again" by the Spirit of God, just as Jesus said. (John 3:3,5) Otherwise, The Word of God, The Holy Bible explains why this is so..."But the natural (soulish) man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned...(void of the Spirit)". (1 Corinthians 2:14)
@@christophergibson7155 The argument implies a circular logic: one must already believe to understand or accept the religious text's claims. It positions faith as a prerequisite for comprehension, sidelining empirical evidence or rational inquiry. This approach can be critiqued for discouraging questioning and promoting acceptance without evidence, potentially stifling critical thinking by attributing understanding to a supernatural prerequisite rather than to the content's inherent logic or coherence.
@@Lestat1349 You have all the proof and evidence you need in the new birth. Jesus made it clear when He said, "unless you are born again you can not SEE or ENTER the kingdom of God." (John 3:3,5) So, until that experience takes place in one's life they will only continue in denial and unbelief, because they choose not to come to the light because they love their sinful ways. (John 3:19) Jesus said what He meant, and meant what He said.
I’m sure it’s largely a result of nostalgia from being raised on VeggieTales, but even after deconverting, I’m rather fond of this story. It’s nice to see a Bible story-in the Old Testament no less-that paints bigotry and xenophobia as a bad thing. It does really fall apart in the grand scheme of things theologically speaking. You always hear evangelists say things like “bad things happening aren’t punishments from God!” (usually as a way to write off the problem of evil), especially like, in the context of stories like Job. But here in Jonah, God’s cool with a life-threatening storm as a way to punish someone for disobedience. Which makes Job even worse retroactively
I think the fact that we even need to ask Christians if children being killed is ok, is _very_ telling about the nature of their God and source of their morality.
I absolutely love this! Jonah is possibly the most intriguing of the prophets, in my opinion. He was scared of the violence in the city, as well as, he had this huge superiority complex where he didn’t think that God should have been merciful on someone who wasn’t His chosen people. It really puts into perspective how the people of Israel took the title of God’s chosen people and started belittling others because they were not. I mean, the arrogance of Jonah! The best part is how influential Jonah is without even being a decent person. He intentionally went the wrong direction and put the lives of all the people on the ship in danger to get away from doing something that he didn’t want to do. Upon waking him up, he then confessed to running away from God. That confession on top of the failed attempts to get other gods to help, solidified in the eyes of those people that the God Jonah worshipped was real and he was really unhappy with him. The great fish debates are hilarious, honestly I don’t know what kind of fish it was, it very well could have been the fish god worshipped in Nineveh sent by God to return Jonah to dry land unharmed. Personally I don’t care what kind of fish it was, it doesn’t change the story one way or the other. Also his pity me and I will do whatever you want prayer while inside the fish is a prime example of what kind of person he really was. Only crying out to God because he was in trouble. Jonah really is like a kid who gets put in timeout just to apologize and listen just for the sake of getting out of timeout. It’s hilarious how self-centered he is. Then he goes to Nineveh and says the bare minimum to these people and they repent and turn towards God, which is the intention behind the prophecies in the first place. So Jonah gets mad because God shows his mercy on people who actually listened and believed, to the point of wanting to die. He hated everyone that wasn’t Hebrew so much that he would rather die than see God spare them. Interestingly enough, the people of Nineveh were so moved by him coming and saying what he did, that they actually buried him and venerated his tomb with a shrine. Only to have had the shrine intentionally destroyed by ISIS. I personally don’t think Jonah wrote it, it’s too vague and the narrative showing his true character in a negative manner just doesn’t make sense. I apologize for the crazy length of this comment, but I seriously enjoyed this video. The detail and depth that you covered was incredible and I got excited to share my perspective on the subject. Thank you. It is always refreshing hearing your perspectives and I greatly appreciate them.
Thats very kind, and I really did enjoy your thoughts, but it also seems that you still believe the story in general. Is that the case? If so, I would be curious to hear why
@@MindShift-Brandon Yes, I absolutely do believe the story to be factual. In my opinion, the tomb of Jonah is itself a testament to this story. The first clue to its significance is that ISIS, a devout Islamic group, intentionally destroyed the shrine claiming that those who used the site as a religious site were apostates. The Quran mentions that anyone who turns from Islam is to be killed. Thus justifying, in their eyes, the destruction of the location. Which would make sense if Jonah was a Muslim, but he wasn’t. So the logical explanation for the destruction would be that because it was a rivaling religious location. The second clue that led me to believe this to be factual is the fact that there was a shrine there. Shrines are meant to represent someone or something that had an impact upon the people in the area, this instance Nineveh. This is also a different narrative of those people than what was often portrayed as violent and dangerous. This leads to my third clue, the shrine was placed on top of the tomb of Jonah. These people were so dangerous that they went out to where he was at the end of the end of the book, which is where I presume he died. Given that the book usually ends with the death of said prophet and he did faint alone in the desert during the day. Recognized him. Brought his body to the city. And then placed him in a tomb that belonged to one of the citizens of this ever so violent city. The impact of Jonah was that immense. It turned the whole of the city to God and the only way I could imagine that they would have done that was by the change in attitude when receiving the spirit. Which would have been an amazing thing to witness, I wish I could have seen that. Anyway, that leads to why did it have such an impact on them? Easy, the fish story has to have some sort of truth behind it because if it really did happen, there would have been no doubt that he wasn’t lying about being in the belly of a fish. He would have had the smell and the bile and all the other nasty things that were going on in there on his clothes and body. He would have been disgusting! The only chance to get some sort of reprieve from the grossness would have been to wash himself off but that wouldn’t remove the smell even the slightest. He would still have smelled like fishy death and decay and vomit. That would add validity to his story and cause people to listen to him real quick. The fact that it was 120,000 people who unanimously listened and repented shows that his testimony and prophecy were heard and regarded as truth. In regard to the ship, sleeping on one is rather easy and the steady rocking keeps you in a deep sleep. The way that I see it is that the other people exhausted all their options when calling on their gods to save them that when Jonah confessed to them, they believed it and got scared to death. That’s why he was thrown overboard, on the assumption that it was his fault and if he isn’t on the ship then his God wouldn’t hurt them and He didn’t. The rest of the book is logistics; just took a map, saw where Tarshish was, saw where Nineveh was, and saw that he was going the complete opposite direction, physically running from this place. This book is the most intriguing story in my opinion. Not many places get continuously visited by people for almost two thousand years that consider it as the final resting place of someone important to have a shrine erected on top only to be destroyed in a religious war. It is a lot, but it’s the whole reason that I believe it to be true. I also don’t think that this was written by Jonah in any sense; judging his character by what is written, the book would have been massive, he would have emphasized Israel and what he spoke to them, he would have made it clear through his narrative what the prophecies were, he would have made himself look and seem better, just to name a few.
@@MindShift-Brandon Let’s try this again, super abridged version. Yes, I believe it is true. The tomb of Jonah is the most important piece of evidence of this. The first clue was that an ISIS intentionally destroyed it for apostasy. The Quran states any that convert from Islam is to die, thus validating their claim. Except that Jonah wasn’t a Muslim, so it wouldn’t be an Islamic religious site. Making the destruction an act of religious war. The second clue was the fact that there was a shrine there in the first place. This means that Jonah was so highly regarded in the city that they honored his tomb with a monument. They also had to have gone out to where he was, recognized him, brought his body back, and buried him in one of their own tombs. Something that would be insane if he wasn’t who saved the whole city.
Two words to debunk Jonah living in the whale: stomach acid. At least that was my first thought when I learned about this story in church. They really think you'll buy anything you are told when you're a child.
Stomach acid's less of a problem than the lack of air. Stomach acid tends to be good at breaking down dead material, less so for living material capable of repairing damage done. Air though? Yeah he'd run out and suffocate in minutes.
An interpretation I don't see too often (especially in mainstream Sunday school type of presentation) is that Jonah actually didn't survive for three days in the fish, but actually died and was brought back to life (hence the mentions of Sheol/the pit/the grave, unless you take them purely as metaphorical which I could see too). So not only would you have to believe to believe he was swallowed by a fish, but also died and was brought back to life. All this makes an interesting metaphorical comparison (and almsot more sense) to when Jesus compares himself to Jonah later.
"Forgive me, Lord, for I have sinned! It is in Thine divine light that I am made aware of the errors of mine ways, and if need be, I shall walk to the ends of the Earth that Thine glorious hands have crafted to show, nay, prove my deepest regret for going against Thine Law!" Ashtar, the 22nd mule of a Ninive trader, ca. 750 BCE
I remember my youth pastor said Jonah being in the belly of the fish for 3 days was foreshadowing Jesus being unalived for 3 days. It’s like they try to find ways to correlate the Old Testament with Jesus in the new… since my childhood, I always thought his explanation was a stretch, and that this story was far fetched and weird 😂 excellent video as always !
@@MindShift-Brandon Because Jesus used Jonah as prophecy what will be with Him. In another words that He will be in Darkness of Earth like Jonah was in belly of Fish
In the Baptist Church I grew up in, the story of Jonah was taught only up to about when we were the age of 8. I don't remember a single instance it being mentioned after that age in any Sunday school lesson or sermon.
So so good! I can think back to my later days as a Christian, and how much I appreciated Jonah (I went progressive, choosing to see only the love parts). I had been brainwashed into accepting my cognitive dissonance; when you feel uncomfortable about some horrible OT text because you know you're supposed to rejoice in the atrocities but you don't want to, so you teach yourself to think, "All I know is God is good. All I know is God is love." It scrambles your critical thinking and the clear horrible things God does and commands become pixelated. You say, "That's all weird and confusing, and I don't know how to make sense of this. It sounds like slavery and misogyny and a petty little insecure beta god... I can't make sense of it. But you know what's clear? Jonah. Jonah is unambiguous about God's goodness and mercy. Jonah doesn't hurt my head when I read it. I'd much rather be confused about how a guy can sit in a big fish for 3 days than about whether the god I believe in is good or not." What's great about Jonah is that it's so clearly favorable to the modern Western God of Love we conceive of today, in the context of a Bible that is otherwise confusing to those of us with stunted critical thinking.
The dog that stole the sausages came in with a sheepish look and confessed, broke down weeping and went in search of sackcloth which was in high demand blah blah blah.
Thank you for this space to safely analyse while safely deconstructing, when many others praise books like Job and Jonah which are used to praise Yahweh. It’s helped very much. Thank you for what you do. “God have you free will but you had better use it to follow him” really hits it right on.
RE: In the belly of the fish for 3 days -- 1) How did he breathe? 2) How was he not digested or at least severely burned by the gastric acid, perhaps blinded? Unless it was such a large fish that he just stayed in the fish's mouth. Back then to #1, since fish breath through the use of gills and their mouth is usually full of water. Unless then we decide it was a whale, where breathing would be through the blowhole in their heads.
This "fish" is actually a whale called the Cetus constellation. Remember Perseus and his flaming sword that guards the east gate to the garden of Eden? Perseus was first cataloged in the second century by the Greek astronomer Ptolemy. It is named after the legendary hero who rescued Andromeda from the sea monster, Cetus. Perseus was the son of Danaë, who was the daughter of King Acrisius. His father was the god Zeus. Perseus was Perseus was first cataloged in the second century by the Greek astronomer Ptolemy. It is named after the legendary hero who rescued Andromeda from the sea monster, Cetus. Perseus was the son of Danaë, who was the daughter of King Acrisius. His father was the god Zeus. Perseus was sent by King Polydectes to slay the evil gorgon sister Medusa, whose gaze could turn anyone who looked at her into stone. Perseus slew Medusa in her sleep and collected her head in a bag. On his way back home, he spotted the princess Andromeda chained to a rock. She was to be sacrificed to the sea monster Cetus. Perseus used the head of Medusa to turn the monster into stone. Perseus and Andromeda fell in love and were both placed among the stars.
@bluestargalaxy9447 we've been taught that animals are "dumb" (can't speak or reason, etc), so they can't sin. Methinks it was just a symbolic thing for the Ninevites to do, to show god how remorseful they were.
Compared to the lengthy and intense descriptions of God's wrath, anger and determined retribution, this rare example of mercy and forgiveness is short and relatively dispassionate. Kind of flat and lukewarm. Besides sort of plodding and pedestrian; grumpy prophet.......hmmm. Great video again.
Happy dance cause it's Thursday! I'm halfway through Ezekiel, so I've almost caught up to the series in my own Bible reading. I may have mentioned this before, but I would actually love to see a video on your favorite Bible stories. Lol I think we all agree here that most of them are terrible, but several of them are actually really good. For instance, one I really liked was when David was being pursued by Saul and had the opportunity to kill him, but just cut off a piece of his clothing instead and tried to use that to show Saul that David didn't want to be enemies. Would love to see like a top 10 countdown of Brandon's Best Bible Bits.
that was always one of my favorites too! and great idea for an episode. In general, after this series, I will be doing bible stories for my new Thursday episodes.
I'm ready for the regular theists to come here and tell us that somebody can totally survive in a fish's stomach for three days and that a tree can grow overnight.
It's funny how many theists watch this channel only in and attempt to harass people back into the church and not ever considering another point of view than blind idiot faith.
@kerishannon775 I got a promotion. Praise the Lord. I got fired. The Lord is testing me. I feel healthy today, praise the Lord for this marvelous body I was given by him. I have cancer. I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. After years of intense chemotherapy and taking oncology medications, the Lord has healed me of my cancer. Praise the Lord. The excuses that the Christians come up with are astounding.
@@Johnmhatheist It probably got the same treatment as the last big fish that God made, Leviathan. God has a way of making these big ass fish and then dicing then up after. I’m surprised he didn’t have the Israelites burning sushi on the altar.
When I was still in the seminary, they taught us that the Book of Jonah is how Jews who support welcoming non-Jews to their society opposed and criticized isolationist Jews.
Makes sense. Its odd, as we go through Judaic history, you can see the beginning of an intolerant racist slaver human sacrificing people, but then we get stories that defy that, promoting the help of non-Hebrews, the evils of enslaving Hebrews, and the reminder that even Israel's enemies were Yahweh's beloved creations. Someone called it signs of social awareness through time. By making them sacred tales, the criticisms of the ancient bigotry are permanently enshrined. I'd say there was greater social awareness in other places, but these are often the whims of rulers and local customs, too easily overturned by new rulers.
While it's still all quite ridiculous, I wonder if Jonah's running away from his god harkens back to when the gods of that region were clearly tied to a specific location such that their power was limited by proximity.
If a person believes in a god that can cause a man to be swallowed by a fish and survive for 3 days why would that person try to prove which kind of fish could have done it?
Hey my man! Hope you are doing well :) had to speed run this book since I saw it was so short, it was kinda pretty :) good to have something that is not just horrible, a good reprieve from deuteronomy to be honest:) it is insane but pretty :)
7:54 its not that he's arguing that he didn't need to go. He's saying that he knew God is merciful, and he would rather die than see the people that he hates be forgiven
I never thought of Jonah in the way you describe - as possibly God’s character improved over the vast majority of his normal Biblical actions. So focused on him messing with Jonah - never thought much about the extraordinarily uncharacteristic case of Nineveh. Thanks for a new insight!
Funny how the warning convinced EVERYONE and the animals in the Jonah myth. (In a bigger city). But no one was able to be saved or convinced in the Sodom and Gomorrah myth.
For such a short book there is a lot to unpack and Brandon absolutely nailed it once again. I have only two things to add here for further clarification: 1). Dating the book should be between 390 bce and 420 bce but definitely written during the Persian period (2nd temple period 340 bce - 540 bce). 2). This book highlights the inherent contradictions between an omniscient God and a God that changes it's mind. Clearly an all-knowing God would have no need to change it's mind. "If you do this I won't punish you but if you decide not to do this then I will punish you". An all-knowing God would already know what you are going to do and so the drama is clearly added for literary emphasis. Brandon already touched on the problem in this book with free will and the problems with Yahweh killing innocent people and animals.
I’ve seen many a time where Jonah was used as a parable for a disobedient son who rebels against his father. It was used almost as many times as the parable of the prodigal son. I’ve seen it used in movies and TV shows where the son who hangs out with the wrong crowd, goes to wild parties, engages in “fornication” and abusing drugs - all to avoid his father’s commands and expectations of him (often to be trained as a minister). The father often hounds his son, either with words, warnings, or even physically ejecting his son from the “den of sin.” There’s a belly of the great fish scene where the son finds himself dazed in a drug den, or next to a strange woman in bed with the obligatory seedy surroundings. Of course the Jonah / Prodigal Son relents and - Hallelujah! - does his father proud by becoming a minister. Cue gospel choir finale and roll credits. As for Jonah prophesying to foreigners, one could somersault and say he was preaching to Hebrews in Nineveh exclusively. It may also been an elementary step a prophet or scribe was taking from the idea of Yahweh as a tribal leader in the universal god modern day preachers and theologians appeal to in order to make the monotheistic god more palatable.
As a kid I used to sing this tune in Italian about Jonah and the wale, which roughly translates to “Jonah in the whale was happy because despite his distress, he could eat sturgeon” 😂
I didn't realize that a lot of Christians found the parting of the red sea a more plausible miracle than Jonah surviving being swallowed by a fish. Don't understand, actually. They're both folk tales to me. Paul Bunyan is as plausible. The one I find the least plausible is the zombies in Matthew. The most implausible part of that implausible tale is that this could happen but the only person in the entire ancient world who noticed was the author of Matthew. It's things like that where the argument from silence has validity. I don't recall what I thought about that while I was a Christian, though. I don't think I noticed it. It's not as if that makes it into the liturgy for Easter.
I remember being taught that Jonah wrote this book and that it was proof that he had a change of heart and learned from his mistakes and that is why the book paints Jonah in such a negative light. Looking back, that just sounds like fanfiction or a head cannon.
I love Jonah. I think it is satire, a middle finger salute to the nationalist/deuteronmic perspective. I suspect it was written in exile or post-exile and the author knew and knew his readers knew, that repentance did not gain Nineveh anything. The author ventures to suggest that God just might care about other peoples (and their cattle). The gospels’ “sign of Jonah” is rather underwhelming.
I agree. The tone reminds me of the ancient Greek satires. People forget the ancients also had silly jokes, even in Sumeria. The first scifi story was a joke story in Herodotus' style, of going to the Moon. Aesop's fables could be humorous, but also taught lessons. I think the whole Book of Jonah might be thought of an Aesop.
@@TheNamelessOne-o4v How so? Doesn't the Bible condemn witchcraft? Also what do you mean by true witches? I would think every practicing witch considers their own practice to be valid and true.
@@jonathanfarquhar It's just the craft of dark psychology and story telling to the point where other's believe something that is false to be true in order to modify their behavior to gain a benefit from it, usually to another person's detriment. Church leaders are witches, but it's everywhere now a days, especially in entertainment and politics, and in the military too. They're not honest people, and the rest are hypnotized sheep.
Writing comments as I go. 3:06 “There’s nothing to indicate this isn’t literal”. The text is debated yes, but it’s more accurate to say it’s a satire than a “fun metaphor”. That’s why all the extremes are presented, most notably at the end, even the cattle repent. 3:34 Reed Sea vs Man surviving in a fish. The factual cases here are different. In the case of Moses, the text tells us the mechanism is a wind that blew all through the night. There have been meteorological modeling studies, most famously the one by Carl Drews, that there are naturally occurring phenomenona similar to this and could plausibly have been what the text describes. In the case of Jonah, the text says he died and God raised him from the dead. So, why all the hubbub about trying to say he survived in the belly of the fish? 5:44 Yes, this bare bones prophecy followed by total repentance is part of why many people read this as a satire. You could also add that the city is 3 days breadth but he only travels 1 day, showing he is doing the minimum. 13:02 Yes, satirical elements. 14:34 I think this section really gets to the heart of the issue. It seems to me that your concerns are framed by American fundamentalist thinking: “the only reason to not take something literally is capitulation”. But what if a genre sensitive analysis really does suggest the author did not intend the elements to be literal? For example, the Good Samaritan parable has nothing supernatural or fantastical in it yet it’s not to be taken as a literal historical tale. Likewise, Jonah has clear (to me) elements of satire that even if the supernatural elements were excised would still lead to reading the story through the lens of satire instead of strict literalism. The “Literary Analysis” section could be less anemic if these issues were engaged. 17:31 Possibly Adapa?
Yes! There is tons of magic in the bible, divination, casting of lots, necromancy etc. Lots are cast in new and old testament even by the followers of God. It is a book of magic!
Hi Brandon! I know the Bible never says "whale", but Jonah was on a ship headed to Tarshish. The Mediterranean Sea does have large whales, and to the people of the time they didn't know whales were mammals and not fish. But we all know nobody could survive three days of stomach acid. One thing I found interesting is once again the use of the number 40. (40 days until God destroys Ninevah) Maybe sometime you can look into the use of numbers in the Bible. 7, 12, 13, 40 and thousand. I believe all these numbers have a magical value. Thanks for another interesting video.
Yes me too. A good ol gamble. Believers of course argue that god uses this method and still has a plan but then why not just speak it. This is such superstitious nonsense.
@@MindShift-Brandon Mennonites vote on a new pastor and if it is close, they put slips of paper in bibles and pick randomly. I think the idea comes from the casting dice part in the bible. It was kind of funny because as an outsider and Christian, I was like yeah totally, just like in the bible! And even the mennonites seemed to think it was kind of stupid.
There was no Jonah or "big fish" that swallowed him. The god believer who wrote this wackadoodle story never dreamed it would become a topic of serious conversation thousands of years later. But here we are. Never underestimate the human capacity for self delusion.
Ok so my knee jerk mental image here when it comes the hyperbolic, fantastical nature with which it’s presented to children is the scene from “The Matrix” when Trinity asks Morpheus what Neo is doing and he answers with, “He’s beginning to believe.”
@@Grayraven777 in the story everyone was fasting, even the animals, so I think what Brandon is going for here is that the people there starved their animals
At Joppa, Jonah found a ship (Argo rises in September). So, he got into the ship at the precise time that Noah (and Osiris) got into his ark, and started to go to Tarshish (mid- winter), for he was anxious to get out from the presence of the Lord, or out of summer into winter. But the Lord sent a great wind (the monsoon) which wrought upon the sea, and there was a mighty tempest. The poor sailors were badly scared, for, as a class, sailors are remarkably superstitious, and every one of them prayed to his Gods (Elohim). Jonah, in the meanwhile, careless fellow, was fast asleep (Adam's sleep) in the bottom of the ship (mid-winter). The captain went to him, awoke him, and told him to go to praying with the rest of them. But, as is ever the case in times of the greatest danger, praying didn't do. So, they cast lots to find out which among them was the cause of the tempest. The lot fell, as all knew it would, upon poor Jonah. On being interrogated, Jonah ingenuously confessed that he was the cause of all the muss. Instead of throwing him at once into the sea, as he richly deserved, and as rational men would have done, the poor sailors worked hard to bring the ship to land. Finding their efforts vain, and having first prayed to the Lord, i.e., having got opposite the summer solstice, or at mid-winter, they cast Jonah overboard, and the sea at once became calm = winter solstice. (This is the same time that Moses tosses a tree into the bitter waters) Now the Lord had prepared a great fish to swallow up Jonah, i.e., the summer having passed, Cetus, or the Whale (see celestial globe), had set in the west, mouth upward, to receive Jonah, or the Sun, when thrown overboard. So, Jonah, the whale having swallowed him, was in the whale's belly, or in the belly of hell, three days and three nights, i.e., three months, the time Moses' mother was able to hide him, from mid- winter to the spring equinox. The three months are January, February, and March (actually March 25 when Virgo the Virgin gets impregnated every year. This is also the first three months (not years) of the reign of Solomon the annual sun. He begins building the temple of god (your body) in the fourth month (again not year) aka April. Symbolically the temple is destroyed in it final month of completion which simply means the end of summer and beginning of winter (and the beginning of the mysteries of Isis).
Post-exile God is a bit different from pre-exile God. New Testament God is radically different until Revelation where he is a combination of old and new.
It feels like all the context is missing from the story, or that it's just an outline that was never developed. What's Jonah's back story? All the other prophets (as far as I recall) were priests; what was Jonah? Since he was so incredibly effective, was he some sort of divine special forces operative? Why wasn't this book written by Tom Clancy?
3:25 actually if you reread the text, there's nothing in there to actually say that Jonah did survive inside the fish for three days. If he had died when the fish swallowed him, and then god had brought him back to life when the fish vomited him onto the shore, this would still actually be consistent with the details of the story in Jonah.
@@sanjeevgig8918 I'm not clear what you're asking me for here. In the story, one of the characters actually is a magical being with supernatural powers. Also, it's pretty relevant if the book of Jonah contains a resurrection, since it's referenced in the gospels of Matthew and Luke (twice in gMatt actually, though it's just duplication). In fact when Jesus says that he'll be in the earth for three days (which, by the way, he doesn't fulfil. A day and a half is what the synoptic gospels say, and it's even a stretch to say it's three days in gJohn imho), as Jonah was in the fish for three days, it's pretty clear evidence that some second temple period Jews may well have viewed Jonah as having died when the fish ate him. So did any of that answer your question? I basically just answered "why is this relevant?" since I didn't understand your actual question.
@@integrationalpolytheism Understood; A book says a thing and you just agree with all the things in the book. Once you accept MAGIC, then all things can be explained away. LOLZ
@@sanjeevgig8918 what on earth are you talking about? Are you replying to somebody else's comment by mistake? It's fairly clear that you have not understood my comment or reply at all. Have a good day though, and best of luck to you. You may wish to confront your own assumptions before making those kinds of statements about others, though. It's a very poor way to communicate.
@@integrationalpolytheism I understood that you believe a Fish swallowed Jonah and according to you he died and the Fish spit him out on the shore and an Invisible-Sky-Daddy resurrected him. When you just flat out assume Invisible-Sky-Daddy and the MAGIC of Resurrection anytime anywhere ... then anything is possible. LOLZ
The book of Jonah basically refutes Christian theology since they believe that without blood there is no forgiveness (Hebrew 9 22). But God in the book of Jonah forgave people by them repenting. And if i am not wrong the people of Ninevah are Gentiles.
Absolutely! I realized this a few months ago when a pastor was talking about the Exodus and how they *needed* to kill lambs to save their own skins. No they didn't. God could have forgiven without this bloodshed
Apart from Jesus Christ's atoning sacrifice of himself for our sins, no person could be forgiven by God (see Hebrews 9:12, 22). The men of Nineveh believed God and were forgiven. Men have always been reconciled to God through faith (believing him and his word) with the shed blood of Christ obtaining redemption for us. We have the entire Bible which shows how God put all mankind's sin on Jesus Christ, who died and rose again the third day according to the scriptures (ref. 1 Corinthians 15:3-4). Salvation (the remission of sins) has been preached in Jesus' name since his resurrection from the dead (see Acts 2). Those who believe on Jesus Christ for his free gift of eternal life are forgiven their sins (see John 3:16, Romans 6:23).
@@sm8johnthreesixteen Hebrew 9 22 is wrong and you too. Isaiah 55 7 and 2 Chr 7 14 are only 2 examples of forgiveness without blood. You can even use money, charity or even flour🤦♀️🤣 And salvation by faith is wrong, because every man will judged by his deeds and even words. (Many verses show this)
@@sm8johnthreesixteen so basically: Jesus is useless. Rebecca and Elisabeth are viewed as righteous in God's eyes long before Jesus. David too etc. And this all has noting to do with Jesus.
Jesus spoke of the tale of Jonah as though it really happened.In using it as symbolic of his resurrection, he said it was the only sign that he would give the Jewish leaders.And yet, when he supposedly rose from the dead, he did not present himself to the Jewish leaders afterward, just his followers.Hmm?
Jesus does this a lot. Its such great ammo when believers try to say certain things were always intended as metaphor. However in this case, I could see the case being made for Jesus just using it as an example, even in its metaphor frame.
Jesus Christ showed himself alive after his resurrection from the dead to the apostles that had been eyewitnesses of his ministry as well as others: Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly; Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before of God, even to us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead (Peter is speaking here--Acts 10:40-41). These same apostles would preach forgiveness of sins to be received through faith in Christ in Jerusalem, including to the very men that were religious leaders that called for his death (see Acts 4:22, 5:27-40), even in the face of arrest, threats, imprisonment, and beatings.
I've been reading this book as a kind of critique ever since i started reading the bible from a secular point of view as it seems to mock the attitude the prophets take to the destruction of life. I honestly think it was made to critique the pure vitural towards other groups and was just taken into the bible because of its depiction of God as merciful and kind.
I always thought Jonah didn't want to go to Nineveh because he was scared. It wasn't till i read the book that i understood that he didn't want to go because he hated Nineveh.
@@Badficwriter lol. I was looking at it through my eyes at the time hearing a story in church as a child. The thought of being a preacher terrified me.
Jonah is one of my favorite stories *because* of that flipped narrative where God actually looks something like a good guy who is willing to forgive. It's a nice relief from all the violence in the Bible. Also to further defend it, this is one of the few times where God can forgive *without* sacrifice. They put on sackcloth, fasted, and cried to God. It's such a light in the midst of a terrible series of prophecies about destruction. I don't care if it's literally true, it's one of the few times in the Bible we actually see goodness (minus the part where God causes the storm to punish all the sailors)
@@MindShift-Brandon I guess I had never thought of it as satire before, but that's kind of an amusing thought that the oft-proclaimed goodness of God in the Bible is satire against the destructive God of the majority of the Bible. I think another passage to consider in this light is John 8, (funny coincidence that that is also highly debated as far as historical accuracy) In John 8, Jesus is effectively undermining the Levitical law to make it powerless (which is good for him because that law in Leviticus about stoning adulterers seemed fairly oppressive), but it's funny that it came from Jesus who is sometimes claimed to be the ultimate fulfillment of the law. No, it looks to me like he was trying to override it without getting too direct so that people might not notice.
I think it may be reworked from a persian or babylonian story and it's stylized from the people submitting to a king/ emperor. Like the book of daniel though they didn't really bother with the actual history.
Happy SBS Day!
I'm just here to let you know that if God exists, he hates you, Brandon. Lol
lol!@@Johnmhatheist
@Elsimioborracho Preyz Gord my friendz🧄🎃
Something that struck me as very interesting that I hadn't noticed until watching your excellent breakdown of this book is the particular veneration of cattle.
Livestock is mentioned in several places in the old testament. The bull is the idol of the God Baal for example. And the influences of Eastern theology aren't easily traced until the 3rd century bce with the development of the Silk Road trade routes.
So it would be fascinating to know if there was an influence from India on Mesopotamia during the Babylonian or Assyrian empires or if the worship of cattle is just one of the many similarities we see among all world religions independently developed.
Love it!
I keep telling my cat that I'll convert when he does and we can wear sackcloths and ashes together. So far he isn't receptive.
Lol!
Thank you so much for this presentation. For the first time in my 51 years as a Christian I am utterly and profoundly shocked to see from your presentation how seriously non-sensical and non-credible the Book of Jonah is, I have always had a respected and warm benefit-of-the-doubt view of the Book. Wow, this is a painful head-turning revelation.
@Chuck-se5hh It's tough when you first see all the contradictions and inconsistencies....l was 50 years a believer, but now two years on the other side. Never felt so free, to be honest! All the best with your journey. There's lots of support on this channel for honest folks. 😊
Okay, it's hilarious about the animals repenting. Somehow I forgot about that one, good stuff!
Its truly wild!
It's one stage further than, "and then everyone clapped" as it's, "and then everyone clapped, even the animals!"
But what would the animals be repenting for?
The animals felt bad about pooping in the streets, I guess.
I have no idea how animal repentance is meant to work. Maybe Jonah was having a bit of a laugh?
How tf?
I love how Jonah pulls up a chair outside the city waiting for destruction on the city . I just picture him sitting there with popcorn ready for the brimstone
Lol right
This shet happened in Hawaii when a false alarm started
God can make a tree that grows in a day but he can't talk to the people directly and needs a prophet to deliver a message.
He can't stand people. They're like dirty rags to him.
@@exaucemayunga22is he so weak that the materials he made make him sick. Not very perfect
@grutsthefoodman3645 good thing he doesn't exist.
@@exaucemayunga22his creation is dirty? Must be a weak god
Well said! Yes, God is so stupidly weird and inconsistent, doing weird useless things like this but utterly failing to do necessary things like healing us of bodily diseases and sicknesses when we desperately need it. He ought to be thoroughly ashamed of himself. He needs to get his priorities straight.
I just argued with a Christian about this the other day. I was using Jonah as an example of how free will doesn't work with their god because Jonah was actively avoiding god. I stated if god cared about free will, he would have left Jonah alone.
The person argued that god "knew" Jonah was for great things and was ensuring Jonah lived up to his potential. BUT we still have free will to "choose" if we follow god or not. It was the most frustrating thing this week.
lol yeah thats a rough one!
That is a perfect example of cognitive dissonance. "We have free will, but we are all subject to follow God's plan".
@@ObjectiveEthics That is what I thought.
@@ObjectiveEthicsIf "god" cared anything about free will, there would be know slavery in the Bible.
Understand that God can defile it as well. It is His Universe so Rules are His
My favorite book in the Bible!!!! Because, as you said, God for once seems to the Good Guy!! But it is one nugget in a 100 foot high pile of gravel
Amen!
I have never learned more about the Bible than I did here. I meant to reply yesterday when the video came out. I was never as into the faith as you were when I was younger, but I was very close to falling in with a so-called non-denominational sect back in high school (class of '02) before realizing to my chagrin they were no different from other garden variety evangelicals. Even my dad, at the time also seeking a furthering of his own faith, saw through their BS. Channels like yours are so important.
Appreciate these thoughts and your support so much!
I actually did a sermon series on this when I was a Campus Minister, before I left the church and became agnostic.
It is a pretty beautiful narrative where we can really relate to Jonah in our faults and running so to speak. The big issue, of course is it also showcases the unfairness of God, who was willing to eradicate the entire world with a flood, as well as Sodom and Gomorrah, yet he was willing to forgive this group.
At the very least, this book can showcase God’s unfairness to humanity.
At least god didn't expel him from the fish through its colon. Another amazing video Brandon.
lol right?! and thank you!
Jonah also rescues Pinocchio and Geppetto.
Legend has it they all lived happily forever 😆
@@ObjectiveEthics inside the great fish or spewed up on the shore?? 🤣🤣🤣
@@QuestionThingsUseLogic I realized that I got the quote wrong. It's supposed to be "Happily ever after" not "Happily forever". It's been a few decades since I watched one of the Disney classics lol.
@@ObjectiveEthics it doesn't matter, it means the same thing, haha. I love reinventing old sayings, so you get a ten out of ten!! 😁
Wait, does that mean pleasure island is in the bible?
Holy shit does that explain Balaams talking donkey???
The studio’s looking good. The lighting looks great!
So glad to hear, Thanks!
I get nostalgic when I read the bible. Sigh, the good ole days of praying and studying and praising. lol. I am embarrassed now. I love this channel its a space for embarrassed ex believers. So beautiful it is to be free of dogma and the chains of religion.
"Embarrassed ex-believers"? What is there to embarrassed about? Was it your love for Jesus?
@@christophergibson7155 that i fell for it
@@christophergibson7155 Gibbo, just go back to sleep, you wouldn't understand... it's only for the those who think.
@@christophergibson7155 it’s embarrassing because it’s cringey, cheesy and most importantly a lie. Imagine following a lie to be cringey and cheesy…trust me we know you’re in love with Jesus to the point you want to be his boyfriend.
@@CheknoEternity well said, lol.
I've only known this story as one of the fairytales from a children's bible, but the story is so much crazier than I remember. ..
I got to speak to my Ma yesterday about the character of Yahweh, just asking her some questions about things he does in the bible. It wslas the first time she has not shut down the conversation and really responded. I'm not trying to convince her of anything, I'm just asking questions. I don't think I would have had this moment without having seen some of your videos. I actually like that even when he is being, arguably, the good guy, most people we know in our daily lives are better and more moral beings. Thank you for this series and your others videos 💚🧡
Thats great to hear. Happy to have helped. And thank you!
Hard to believe youre almost halfway done with the bible, at least in terms of books. Love the videos, and I can't wait to hear your thoughts on the new testament when you get there.
Thanks so much! Im really excited to get to the NT
Concerning authorship - to me it comes across like D&D collaborative fiction, many authors pitching in their ideas, usually no one skilled enough or with enough authority to connect it all, make it cohesive, consistent, or provide sound plot flow. What a crazy story that really brings you all over the place which undermines whatever message it was trying to deliver. Thanks, Brandon!
Thanks, Maggie! yes good points.
I have a set of Thieves' World books from the 80s that was authored by a group of fantasy authors. Each had a central character or set of characters they wrote about, but all the characters were living in the same city and encountering one another.
There was a note at the start that while characters may appear to have different motivations, reputations etc, this was due to the point of view of the person telling the story, and not actually an inconsistency.
BUT the pertinent facts always stayed the same. If X and Y went to embalm a body, say, and found the tomb empty, then another character wouldn't say it was actually A and B and there was an angel in the tomb, unless someone specifically told them a fake story to cover something up.
It is not a wonder that you do not understand what you are reading in the Book of Jonah. it is because you must be "born again" by the Spirit of God, just as Jesus said. (John 3:3,5) Otherwise, The Word of God, The Holy Bible explains why this is so..."But the natural (soulish) man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned...(void of the Spirit)".
(1 Corinthians 2:14)
@@christophergibson7155 The argument implies a circular logic: one must already believe to understand or accept the religious text's claims. It positions faith as a prerequisite for comprehension, sidelining empirical evidence or rational inquiry. This approach can be critiqued for discouraging questioning and promoting acceptance without evidence, potentially stifling critical thinking by attributing understanding to a supernatural prerequisite rather than to the content's inherent logic or coherence.
@@Lestat1349 You have all the proof and evidence you need in the new birth. Jesus made it clear when He said, "unless you are born again you can not SEE or ENTER the kingdom of God." (John 3:3,5) So, until that experience takes place in one's life they will only continue in denial and unbelief, because they choose not to come to the light because they love their sinful ways. (John 3:19) Jesus said what He meant, and meant what He said.
I’m sure it’s largely a result of nostalgia from being raised on VeggieTales, but even after deconverting, I’m rather fond of this story. It’s nice to see a Bible story-in the Old Testament no less-that paints bigotry and xenophobia as a bad thing.
It does really fall apart in the grand scheme of things theologically speaking. You always hear evangelists say things like “bad things happening aren’t punishments from God!” (usually as a way to write off the problem of evil), especially like, in the context of stories like Job. But here in Jonah, God’s cool with a life-threatening storm as a way to punish someone for disobedience. Which makes Job even worse retroactively
Yo yo family the learnings and lessons just gets deeper and deeper. Thank you Coach Brandon 🎉
Thanks for watching!
I think the fact that we even need to ask Christians if children being killed is ok, is _very_ telling about the nature of their God and source of their morality.
I absolutely love this! Jonah is possibly the most intriguing of the prophets, in my opinion. He was scared of the violence in the city, as well as, he had this huge superiority complex where he didn’t think that God should have been merciful on someone who wasn’t His chosen people. It really puts into perspective how the people of Israel took the title of God’s chosen people and started belittling others because they were not. I mean, the arrogance of Jonah! The best part is how influential Jonah is without even being a decent person. He intentionally went the wrong direction and put the lives of all the people on the ship in danger to get away from doing something that he didn’t want to do. Upon waking him up, he then confessed to running away from God. That confession on top of the failed attempts to get other gods to help, solidified in the eyes of those people that the God Jonah worshipped was real and he was really unhappy with him.
The great fish debates are hilarious, honestly I don’t know what kind of fish it was, it very well could have been the fish god worshipped in Nineveh sent by God to return Jonah to dry land unharmed. Personally I don’t care what kind of fish it was, it doesn’t change the story one way or the other.
Also his pity me and I will do whatever you want prayer while inside the fish is a prime example of what kind of person he really was. Only crying out to God because he was in trouble. Jonah really is like a kid who gets put in timeout just to apologize and listen just for the sake of getting out of timeout. It’s hilarious how self-centered he is.
Then he goes to Nineveh and says the bare minimum to these people and they repent and turn towards God, which is the intention behind the prophecies in the first place. So Jonah gets mad because God shows his mercy on people who actually listened and believed, to the point of wanting to die. He hated everyone that wasn’t Hebrew so much that he would rather die than see God spare them.
Interestingly enough, the people of Nineveh were so moved by him coming and saying what he did, that they actually buried him and venerated his tomb with a shrine. Only to have had the shrine intentionally destroyed by ISIS.
I personally don’t think Jonah wrote it, it’s too vague and the narrative showing his true character in a negative manner just doesn’t make sense.
I apologize for the crazy length of this comment, but I seriously enjoyed this video. The detail and depth that you covered was incredible and I got excited to share my perspective on the subject. Thank you. It is always refreshing hearing your perspectives and I greatly appreciate them.
Thats very kind, and I really did enjoy your thoughts, but it also seems that you still believe the story in general. Is that the case? If so, I would be curious to hear why
@@MindShift-Brandon Yes, I absolutely do believe the story to be factual. In my opinion, the tomb of Jonah is itself a testament to this story. The first clue to its significance is that ISIS, a devout Islamic group, intentionally destroyed the shrine claiming that those who used the site as a religious site were apostates. The Quran mentions that anyone who turns from Islam is to be killed. Thus justifying, in their eyes, the destruction of the location. Which would make sense if Jonah was a Muslim, but he wasn’t. So the logical explanation for the destruction would be that because it was a rivaling religious location. The second clue that led me to believe this to be factual is the fact that there was a shrine there. Shrines are meant to represent someone or something that had an impact upon the people in the area, this instance Nineveh. This is also a different narrative of those people than what was often portrayed as violent and dangerous. This leads to my third clue, the shrine was placed on top of the tomb of Jonah. These people were so dangerous that they went out to where he was at the end of the end of the book, which is where I presume he died. Given that the book usually ends with the death of said prophet and he did faint alone in the desert during the day. Recognized him. Brought his body to the city. And then placed him in a tomb that belonged to one of the citizens of this ever so violent city. The impact of Jonah was that immense. It turned the whole of the city to God and the only way I could imagine that they would have done that was by the change in attitude when receiving the spirit. Which would have been an amazing thing to witness, I wish I could have seen that. Anyway, that leads to why did it have such an impact on them? Easy, the fish story has to have some sort of truth behind it because if it really did happen, there would have been no doubt that he wasn’t lying about being in the belly of a fish. He would have had the smell and the bile and all the other nasty things that were going on in there on his clothes and body. He would have been disgusting! The only chance to get some sort of reprieve from the grossness would have been to wash himself off but that wouldn’t remove the smell even the slightest. He would still have smelled like fishy death and decay and vomit. That would add validity to his story and cause people to listen to him real quick. The fact that it was 120,000 people who unanimously listened and repented shows that his testimony and prophecy were heard and regarded as truth. In regard to the ship, sleeping on one is rather easy and the steady rocking keeps you in a deep sleep. The way that I see it is that the other people exhausted all their options when calling on their gods to save them that when Jonah confessed to them, they believed it and got scared to death. That’s why he was thrown overboard, on the assumption that it was his fault and if he isn’t on the ship then his God wouldn’t hurt them and He didn’t. The rest of the book is logistics; just took a map, saw where Tarshish was, saw where Nineveh was, and saw that he was going the complete opposite direction, physically running from this place. This book is the most intriguing story in my opinion. Not many places get continuously visited by people for almost two thousand years that consider it as the final resting place of someone important to have a shrine erected on top only to be destroyed in a religious war. It is a lot, but it’s the whole reason that I believe it to be true. I also don’t think that this was written by Jonah in any sense; judging his character by what is written, the book would have been massive, he would have emphasized Israel and what he spoke to them, he would have made it clear through his narrative what the prophecies were, he would have made himself look and seem better, just to name a few.
@@MindShift-Brandon I replied but it seems like my comment is missing.
@@MindShift-Brandon Let’s try this again, super abridged version. Yes, I believe it is true. The tomb of Jonah is the most important piece of evidence of this. The first clue was that an ISIS intentionally destroyed it for apostasy. The Quran states any that convert from Islam is to die, thus validating their claim. Except that Jonah wasn’t a Muslim, so it wouldn’t be an Islamic religious site. Making the destruction an act of religious war. The second clue was the fact that there was a shrine there in the first place. This means that Jonah was so highly regarded in the city that they honored his tomb with a monument. They also had to have gone out to where he was, recognized him, brought his body back, and buried him in one of their own tombs. Something that would be insane if he wasn’t who saved the whole city.
Two words to debunk Jonah living in the whale: stomach acid. At least that was my first thought when I learned about this story in church. They really think you'll buy anything you are told when you're a child.
that does tend to be a problem
Even as a child the story was bologna 🤣🤣🤣
Jesus said it would be with Him as it was with Jonah. Jesus died and was in Darkness for three days and nights than He rose up
@@Bojan12 Most people here probably know that. This is probably the place to find some of the most educated people about Christianity!
Stomach acid's less of a problem than the lack of air. Stomach acid tends to be good at breaking down dead material, less so for living material capable of repairing damage done. Air though? Yeah he'd run out and suffocate in minutes.
An interpretation I don't see too often (especially in mainstream Sunday school type of presentation) is that Jonah actually didn't survive for three days in the fish, but actually died and was brought back to life (hence the mentions of Sheol/the pit/the grave, unless you take them purely as metaphorical which I could see too). So not only would you have to believe to believe he was swallowed by a fish, but also died and was brought back to life. All this makes an interesting metaphorical comparison (and almsot more sense) to when Jesus compares himself to Jonah later.
I've seen christians try to make that claim, as if it's going to make the story any more believable.
"Forgive me, Lord, for I have sinned! It is in Thine divine light that I am made aware of the errors of mine ways, and if need be, I shall walk to the ends of the Earth that Thine glorious hands have crafted to show, nay, prove my deepest regret for going against Thine Law!"
Ashtar, the 22nd mule of a Ninive trader, ca. 750 BCE
I remember my youth pastor said Jonah being in the belly of the fish for 3 days was foreshadowing Jesus being unalived for 3 days. It’s like they try to find ways to correlate the Old Testament with Jesus in the new… since my childhood, I always thought his explanation was a stretch, and that this story was far fetched and weird 😂 excellent video as always !
Jesus said that himself it is known New T. Look it up
lol yes anytime 3 comes up, insert Jesus. Its so funny though, why would anyone want to tie Jesus to Jonah in the first place. Not a good look.
@@MindShift-Brandon Because Jesus used Jonah as prophecy what will be with Him. In another words that He will be in Darkness of Earth like Jonah was in belly of Fish
@@Bojan12 oh dear 🥴🤦🏽♀️
@@iaminevitable_ It is true
In the Baptist Church I grew up in, the story of Jonah was taught only up to about when we were the age of 8. I don't remember a single instance it being mentioned after that age in any Sunday school lesson or sermon.
I was OBSESSED with Free Wllly when I was a kid, so I always pictured the fish that swallowed Jonah as an orca.
So so good! I can think back to my later days as a Christian, and how much I appreciated Jonah (I went progressive, choosing to see only the love parts). I had been brainwashed into accepting my cognitive dissonance; when you feel uncomfortable about some horrible OT text because you know you're supposed to rejoice in the atrocities but you don't want to, so you teach yourself to think, "All I know is God is good. All I know is God is love." It scrambles your critical thinking and the clear horrible things God does and commands become pixelated. You say, "That's all weird and confusing, and I don't know how to make sense of this. It sounds like slavery and misogyny and a petty little insecure beta god... I can't make sense of it. But you know what's clear? Jonah. Jonah is unambiguous about God's goodness and mercy. Jonah doesn't hurt my head when I read it. I'd much rather be confused about how a guy can sit in a big fish for 3 days than about whether the god I believe in is good or not." What's great about Jonah is that it's so clearly favorable to the modern Western God of Love we conceive of today, in the context of a Bible that is otherwise confusing to those of us with stunted critical thinking.
I can’t wait to hear this episode, it’s going to be great 👍🏼
Thanks for being here for it!
The dog that stole the sausages came in with a sheepish look and confessed, broke down weeping and went in search of sackcloth which was in high demand blah blah blah.
Excellent video as always 🎉🎉🎉🎉
Thank you! Cheers!
Thank you for this space to safely analyse while safely deconstructing, when many others praise books like Job and Jonah which are used to praise Yahweh. It’s helped very much. Thank you for what you do.
“God have you free will but you had better use it to follow him” really hits it right on.
RE: In the belly of the fish for 3 days -- 1) How did he breathe? 2) How was he not digested or at least severely burned by the gastric acid, perhaps blinded? Unless it was such a large fish that he just stayed in the fish's mouth. Back then to #1, since fish breath through the use of gills and their mouth is usually full of water. Unless then we decide it was a whale, where breathing would be through the blowhole in their heads.
This "fish" is actually a whale called the Cetus constellation.
Remember Perseus and his flaming sword that guards the east gate to the garden of Eden?
Perseus was first cataloged in the second century by the Greek astronomer Ptolemy. It is named after the legendary hero who rescued Andromeda from the sea monster, Cetus. Perseus was the son of Danaë, who was the daughter of King Acrisius. His father was the god Zeus. Perseus was Perseus was first cataloged in the second century by the Greek astronomer Ptolemy. It is named after the legendary hero who rescued Andromeda from the sea monster, Cetus. Perseus was the son of Danaë, who was the daughter of King Acrisius. His father was the god Zeus. Perseus was sent by King Polydectes to slay the evil gorgon sister Medusa, whose gaze could turn anyone who looked at her into stone. Perseus slew Medusa in her sleep and collected her head in a bag. On his way back home, he spotted the princess Andromeda chained to a rock. She was to be sacrificed to the sea monster Cetus. Perseus used the head of Medusa to turn the monster into stone. Perseus and Andromeda fell in love and were both placed among the stars.
The animals having to repent and wear sackcloth just amuses me. So animals can sin? Like, what were they doing? 😂😂😂
its truly a weird, weird part of the story. plus gods last line about them.
The animals were eating to much. Gluttony 😂😂😂
@@survive323Or maybe they got too friendly with the humans.
My guess would be that the cats were pushing earthen vessels off every possible surface, and the dogs were chewing up Dad's good sandals
@bluestargalaxy9447 we've been taught that animals are "dumb" (can't speak or reason, etc), so they can't sin. Methinks it was just a symbolic thing for the Ninevites to do, to show god how remorseful they were.
8:00 It makes sense when you realize that Jonah hated the Nineveh and he wannt them not to repent. And thus, save themselves from destruction.
Compared to the lengthy and intense descriptions of God's wrath, anger and determined retribution, this rare example of mercy and forgiveness is short and relatively dispassionate. Kind of flat and lukewarm. Besides sort of plodding and pedestrian; grumpy prophet.......hmmm.
Great video again.
Well said. Thanks, deb!
Also consider, in those times, being labeled a false prophet was a big deal. God essentially made jonah into a false prophet. 😮
Happy dance cause it's Thursday! I'm halfway through Ezekiel, so I've almost caught up to the series in my own Bible reading.
I may have mentioned this before, but I would actually love to see a video on your favorite Bible stories. Lol I think we all agree here that most of them are terrible, but several of them are actually really good. For instance, one I really liked was when David was being pursued by Saul and had the opportunity to kill him, but just cut off a piece of his clothing instead and tried to use that to show Saul that David didn't want to be enemies.
Would love to see like a top 10 countdown of Brandon's Best Bible Bits.
that was always one of my favorites too! and great idea for an episode. In general, after this series, I will be doing bible stories for my new Thursday episodes.
I'm ready for the regular theists to come here and tell us that somebody can totally survive in a fish's stomach for three days and that a tree can grow overnight.
All things are possible thru the Lord. (Lol)
It's funny how many theists watch this channel only in and attempt to harass people back into the church and not ever considering another point of view than blind idiot faith.
I saw a movie once where a little wooden boy survived in a fish. If he could do it why not Jonah?
@kerishannon775 I got a promotion. Praise the Lord. I got fired. The Lord is testing me. I feel healthy today, praise the Lord for this marvelous body I was given by him. I have cancer. I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.
After years of intense chemotherapy and taking oncology medications, the Lord has healed me of my cancer. Praise the Lord.
The excuses that the Christians come up with are astounding.
@@lucas.warhero I must have missed that episode of Pinocchio
Dude, as a lefty, I know this. The reason God sent Jonah to Nineva was because they were left-handed..
"Cannot tell their right hand from the left."
Greay video! I've noticed you use the phrase "I digress" quite often. I almost never hear anyone else say it so much lol.
Well i do it often ha. Too many side tangents to go down when covering all this. Thanks for being here
@@MindShift-Brandon Keep doing what you're doing. Hope your channel keeps growing. We follow you from the middle east.
Appreciate that!
Mind Shift answers: "What is the capital of Assyria?"
Initial take at 4:33.
The passage says, God prepared a great fish..."
A special creation.
❤️ Ya Brandon
Thank you!
And what happened to the fish after God made him spit up Jonah? Oh my gosh, did he vomit Jonah? That would be disgusting
@@Johnmhatheist the great fish was only necessary for the 3 days.
It likely disappeared the same way it appeared.
Or it just died.
🙄
@@Johnmhatheist
It probably got the same treatment as the last big fish that God made, Leviathan. God has a way of making these big ass fish and then dicing then up after.
I’m surprised he didn’t have the Israelites burning sushi on the altar.
@@sunlightsage2982 Hahahaha. Did God also hide its fossils to impede us from finding evidence of its existence?
When I was still in the seminary, they taught us that the Book of Jonah is how Jews who support welcoming non-Jews to their society opposed and criticized isolationist Jews.
Makes sense. Its odd, as we go through Judaic history, you can see the beginning of an intolerant racist slaver human sacrificing people, but then we get stories that defy that, promoting the help of non-Hebrews, the evils of enslaving Hebrews, and the reminder that even Israel's enemies were Yahweh's beloved creations. Someone called it signs of social awareness through time. By making them sacred tales, the criticisms of the ancient bigotry are permanently enshrined.
I'd say there was greater social awareness in other places, but these are often the whims of rulers and local customs, too easily overturned by new rulers.
While it's still all quite ridiculous, I wonder if Jonah's running away from his god harkens back to when the gods of that region were clearly tied to a specific location such that their power was limited by proximity.
If a person believes in a god that can cause a man to be swallowed by a fish and survive for 3 days why would that person try to prove which kind of fish could have done it?
oh to enter the mind of a fundamentalist.
Hey my man! Hope you are doing well :) had to speed run this book since I saw it was so short, it was kinda pretty :) good to have something that is not just horrible, a good reprieve from deuteronomy to be honest:) it is insane but pretty :)
Whats up whats up?! Yes a nice break from where you are for sure
@@MindShift-BrandonHehe, not much, doing some obsidian work, some reading and some writing, so a relaxing night =) what about you?
7:54 its not that he's arguing that he didn't need to go. He's saying that he knew God is merciful, and he would rather die than see the people that he hates be forgiven
I never thought of Jonah in the way you describe - as possibly God’s character improved over the vast majority of his normal Biblical actions. So focused on him messing with Jonah - never thought much about the extraordinarily uncharacteristic case of Nineveh. Thanks for a new insight!
Funny how the warning convinced EVERYONE and the animals in the Jonah myth. (In a bigger city). But no one was able to be saved or convinced in the Sodom and Gomorrah myth.
For such a short book there is a lot to unpack and Brandon absolutely nailed it once again.
I have only two things to add here for further clarification:
1). Dating the book should be between 390 bce and 420 bce but definitely written during the Persian period (2nd temple period 340 bce - 540 bce).
2). This book highlights the inherent contradictions between an omniscient God and a God that changes it's mind. Clearly an all-knowing God would have no need to change it's mind. "If you do this I won't punish you but if you decide not to do this then I will punish you". An all-knowing God would already know what you are going to do and so the drama is clearly added for literary emphasis.
Brandon already touched on the problem in this book with free will and the problems with Yahweh killing innocent people and animals.
Always appreciate your added context. Thank you!
I’ve seen many a time where Jonah was used as a parable for a disobedient son who rebels against his father. It was used almost as many times as the parable of the prodigal son. I’ve seen it used in movies and TV shows where the son who hangs out with the wrong crowd, goes to wild parties, engages in “fornication” and abusing drugs - all to avoid his father’s commands and expectations of him (often to be trained as a minister). The father often hounds his son, either with words, warnings, or even physically ejecting his son from the “den of sin.” There’s a belly of the great fish scene where the son finds himself dazed in a drug den, or next to a strange woman in bed with the obligatory seedy surroundings. Of course the Jonah / Prodigal Son relents and - Hallelujah! - does his father proud by becoming a minister. Cue gospel choir finale and roll credits.
As for Jonah prophesying to foreigners, one could somersault and say he was preaching to Hebrews in Nineveh exclusively. It may also been an elementary step a prophet or scribe was taking from the idea of Yahweh as a tribal leader in the universal god modern day preachers and theologians appeal to in order to make the monotheistic god more palatable.
The green is a nice touch
Glad to hear, thanks!
7:20 - I'd be pissed off too. Biblegod just rendered Jonah a False Prophet, and that was DEATH SENTENCE in that day and age.
As a kid I used to sing this tune in Italian about Jonah and the wale, which roughly translates to “Jonah in the whale was happy because despite his distress, he could eat sturgeon” 😂
Damage control lol. That made me laugh.
I didn't realize that a lot of Christians found the parting of the red sea a more plausible miracle than Jonah surviving being swallowed by a fish. Don't understand, actually. They're both folk tales to me. Paul Bunyan is as plausible.
The one I find the least plausible is the zombies in Matthew. The most implausible part of that implausible tale is that this could happen but the only person in the entire ancient world who noticed was the author of Matthew. It's things like that where the argument from silence has validity. I don't recall what I thought about that while I was a Christian, though. I don't think I noticed it. It's not as if that makes it into the liturgy for Easter.
I remember being taught that Jonah wrote this book and that it was proof that he had a change of heart and learned from his mistakes and that is why the book paints Jonah in such a negative light. Looking back, that just sounds like fanfiction or a head cannon.
fanfiction...that's how it hit me today as well. :)
Living for 3 days inside a fish is nothing compared to Yahweh showing compassion.
You pump out an astonishing amount of content. Hopefully soon, my cradle Catholic husband is going to watch some of your videos with me.
Wishing you well with that! Id be elated if my wife became more open to these ideas.
@@MindShift-Brandon Hmm it sounds like we might be in a similar boat then.
I love Jonah. I think it is satire, a middle finger salute to the nationalist/deuteronmic perspective. I suspect it was written in exile or post-exile and the author knew and knew his readers knew, that repentance did not gain Nineveh anything. The author ventures to suggest that God just might care about other peoples (and their cattle).
The gospels’ “sign of Jonah” is rather underwhelming.
I agree. The tone reminds me of the ancient Greek satires. People forget the ancients also had silly jokes, even in Sumeria. The first scifi story was a joke story in Herodotus' style, of going to the Moon. Aesop's fables could be humorous, but also taught lessons. I think the whole Book of Jonah might be thought of an Aesop.
Thanks Brandon 🐳
thanks for watching!
Brandon, could you please maybe explain the concept of the Church being the bride of God? I never could wrap my head around that.
That is a good one! I have not been able to wrap my head around it either
Rick Sanchez and Unity
I'd be really interested in you going through examples of what Christians would consider witchcraft, magic, or demonic but that God used.
True witches use the Bible to cast spells.
@@TheNamelessOne-o4v How so? Doesn't the Bible condemn witchcraft? Also what do you mean by true witches? I would think every practicing witch considers their own practice to be valid and true.
@@jonathanfarquhar
It's just the craft of dark psychology and story telling to the point where other's believe something that is false to be true in order to modify their behavior to gain a benefit from it, usually to another person's detriment.
Church leaders are witches, but it's everywhere now a days, especially in entertainment and politics, and in the military too. They're not honest people, and the rest are hypnotized sheep.
Writing comments as I go.
3:06 “There’s nothing to indicate this isn’t literal”.
The text is debated yes, but it’s more accurate to say it’s a satire than a “fun metaphor”. That’s why all the extremes are presented, most notably at the end, even the cattle repent.
3:34 Reed Sea vs Man surviving in a fish.
The factual cases here are different. In the case of Moses, the text tells us the mechanism is a wind that blew all through the night. There have been meteorological modeling studies, most famously the one by Carl Drews, that there are naturally occurring phenomenona similar to this and could plausibly have been what the text describes.
In the case of Jonah, the text says he died and God raised him from the dead. So, why all the hubbub about trying to say he survived in the belly of the fish?
5:44 Yes, this bare bones prophecy followed by total repentance is part of why many people read this as a satire. You could also add that the city is 3 days breadth but he only travels 1 day, showing he is doing the minimum.
13:02 Yes, satirical elements.
14:34 I think this section really gets to the heart of the issue. It seems to me that your concerns are framed by American fundamentalist thinking: “the only reason to not take something literally is capitulation”. But what if a genre sensitive analysis really does suggest the author did not intend the elements to be literal? For example, the Good Samaritan parable has nothing supernatural or fantastical in it yet it’s not to be taken as a literal historical tale. Likewise, Jonah has clear (to me) elements of satire that even if the supernatural elements were excised would still lead to reading the story through the lens of satire instead of strict literalism. The “Literary Analysis” section could be less anemic if these issues were engaged.
17:31 Possibly Adapa?
You are a nice young man. Don't let anyone dim your sparkle.
What a lovely comment. Thank you.
17:21 annunaki?
I like the addition of the green. I think you have a good look down now.
Yes! There is tons of magic in the bible, divination, casting of lots, necromancy etc. Lots are cast in new and old testament even by the followers of God. It is a book of magic!
Hi Brandon! I know the Bible never says "whale", but Jonah was on a ship headed to Tarshish. The Mediterranean Sea does have large whales, and to the people of the time they didn't know whales were mammals and not fish. But we all know nobody could survive three days of stomach acid.
One thing I found interesting is once again the use of the number 40. (40 days until God destroys Ninevah)
Maybe sometime you can look into the use of numbers in the Bible. 7, 12, 13, 40 and thousand. I believe all these numbers have a magical value.
Thanks for another interesting video.
Thank you! And yes no doubt the bible enjoys some special numbers. Would make a good series. Thanks!
This was my favourite story for some reason back when I was religious
We all had our favorites and unfortunately most of them ended up being very ugly.
After Sodom, Gomorrah and Jericho, Nineveh sounded like a retcon.
I’ve always found it humorous that the disciples cast dice to pick the new 12th disciple to take Judas’ place.
Yes me too. A good ol gamble. Believers of course argue that god uses this method and still has a plan but then why not just speak it. This is such superstitious nonsense.
@@MindShift-Brandon Mennonites vote on a new pastor and if it is close, they put slips of paper in bibles and pick randomly. I think the idea comes from the casting dice part in the bible. It was kind of funny because as an outsider and Christian, I was like yeah totally, just like in the bible! And even the mennonites seemed to think it was kind of stupid.
There was no Jonah or "big fish" that swallowed him. The god believer who wrote this wackadoodle story never dreamed it would become a topic of serious conversation thousands of years later. But here we are.
Never underestimate the human capacity for self delusion.
3:44. This is comical😄
Ok so my knee jerk mental image here when it comes the hyperbolic, fantastical nature with which it’s presented to children is the scene from “The Matrix” when Trinity asks Morpheus what Neo is doing and he answers with, “He’s beginning to believe.”
Question, how does an animal repent?
The owner has to abuse it by withholding food and water from it
@@MindShift-Brandon WHAAAAAT?
@@MindShift-Brandon how is that repentance by the animal?
@@Grayraven777 in the story everyone was fasting, even the animals, so I think what Brandon is going for here is that the people there starved their animals
@@Lestat1349 I get that, but that's not the animals repenting, that's just their owners being assholes.
Say what you will, the Veggie Tales Jonah movie still goes hard.
🎵 _Jonah was a prophet, ooh ooh, but he really never got it, sad but true_ 🎶
dangit now that's gonna be stuck in my head all night...
Nice.
Thanks!
Start your Thursday mornings off right with Secular Bible Study!
Thanks for being here!
Quite honestly the only things I ever knew about the Jonah story was from the Veggietales movie on that story.
God is so gracious to Jonah but he treats his most loyal servants like crap.... Job even poor saul
i live on a farm and if the cattle starts praising god i might reconsider...
I would run at that point😂
@rboland2173hahahaha! The picture of angles drunk tipping cows is priceless
Kind of surprised people are saying God sounds like the good guy here. He was going to slaughter them all if they didn't repent right?
At Joppa, Jonah found a ship (Argo rises in September). So, he got into the ship at the precise time that Noah (and Osiris) got into his ark, and started to go to Tarshish (mid- winter), for he was anxious to get out from the presence of the Lord, or out of summer into winter. But the Lord sent a great wind (the monsoon) which wrought upon the sea, and there was a mighty tempest. The poor sailors were badly scared, for, as a class, sailors are remarkably superstitious, and every one of them prayed to his Gods (Elohim). Jonah, in the meanwhile, careless fellow, was fast asleep (Adam's sleep) in the bottom of the ship (mid-winter). The captain went to him, awoke him, and told him to go to praying with the rest of them. But, as is ever the case in times of the greatest danger, praying didn't do. So, they cast lots to find out which among them was the cause of the tempest. The lot fell, as all knew it would, upon poor Jonah. On being interrogated, Jonah ingenuously confessed that he was the cause of all the muss. Instead of throwing him at once into the sea, as he richly deserved, and as rational men would have done, the poor sailors worked hard to bring the ship to land. Finding their efforts vain, and having first prayed to the Lord, i.e., having got opposite the summer solstice, or at mid-winter, they cast Jonah overboard, and the sea at once became calm = winter solstice.
(This is the same time that Moses tosses a tree into the bitter waters)
Now the Lord had prepared a great fish to swallow up Jonah, i.e., the summer having passed, Cetus, or the Whale (see celestial globe), had set in the west, mouth upward, to receive Jonah, or the Sun, when thrown overboard. So, Jonah, the whale having swallowed him, was in the whale's belly, or in the belly of hell, three days and three nights, i.e., three months, the time Moses' mother was able to hide him, from mid- winter to the spring equinox.
The three months are January, February, and March (actually March 25 when Virgo the Virgin gets impregnated every year. This is also the first three months (not years) of the reign of Solomon the annual sun. He begins building the temple of god (your body) in the fourth month (again not year) aka April. Symbolically the temple is destroyed in it final month of completion which simply means the end of summer and beginning of winter (and the beginning of the mysteries of Isis).
Post-exile God is a bit different from pre-exile God. New Testament God is radically different until Revelation where he is a combination of old and new.
What a whale of a tale!
Sorry, I could not resist the pun, and yes I've been holding that one in for a while.
lol! thanks for the fun
The SBL study bible says this is probably a satirical story. Dunno if that is the majority take but I doubt it’s fringe if it made it in
It feels like all the context is missing from the story, or that it's just an outline that was never developed. What's Jonah's back story? All the other prophets (as far as I recall) were priests; what was Jonah? Since he was so incredibly effective, was he some sort of divine special forces operative? Why wasn't this book written by Tom Clancy?
Lol! Yes like so many of these books, it feels fragmented and lost
3:25 actually if you reread the text, there's nothing in there to actually say that Jonah did survive inside the fish for three days. If he had died when the fish swallowed him, and then god had brought him back to life when the fish vomited him onto the shore, this would still actually be consistent with the details of the story in Jonah.
Do you have any explanation OTHER than "My-invisible-sky-daddy did MAGIC ?"
@@sanjeevgig8918 I'm not clear what you're asking me for here. In the story, one of the characters actually is a magical being with supernatural powers. Also, it's pretty relevant if the book of Jonah contains a resurrection, since it's referenced in the gospels of Matthew and Luke (twice in gMatt actually, though it's just duplication).
In fact when Jesus says that he'll be in the earth for three days (which, by the way, he doesn't fulfil. A day and a half is what the synoptic gospels say, and it's even a stretch to say it's three days in gJohn imho), as Jonah was in the fish for three days, it's pretty clear evidence that some second temple period Jews may well have viewed Jonah as having died when the fish ate him.
So did any of that answer your question? I basically just answered "why is this relevant?" since I didn't understand your actual question.
@@integrationalpolytheism Understood; A book says a thing and you just agree with all the things in the book.
Once you accept MAGIC, then all things can be explained away.
LOLZ
@@sanjeevgig8918 what on earth are you talking about? Are you replying to somebody else's comment by mistake?
It's fairly clear that you have not understood my comment or reply at all.
Have a good day though, and best of luck to you. You may wish to confront your own assumptions before making those kinds of statements about others, though. It's a very poor way to communicate.
@@integrationalpolytheism I understood that you believe a Fish swallowed Jonah and according to you he died and the Fish spit him out on the shore and an Invisible-Sky-Daddy resurrected him.
When you just flat out assume Invisible-Sky-Daddy and the MAGIC of Resurrection anytime anywhere ... then anything is possible.
LOLZ
The book of Jonah basically refutes Christian theology since they believe that without blood there is no forgiveness (Hebrew 9 22). But God in the book of Jonah forgave people by them repenting. And if i am not wrong the people of Ninevah are Gentiles.
Absolutely! I realized this a few months ago when a pastor was talking about the Exodus and how they *needed* to kill lambs to save their own skins. No they didn't. God could have forgiven without this bloodshed
Apart from Jesus Christ's atoning sacrifice of himself for our sins, no person could be forgiven by God (see Hebrews 9:12, 22). The men of Nineveh believed God and were forgiven. Men have always been reconciled to God through faith (believing him and his word) with the shed blood of Christ obtaining redemption for us. We have the entire Bible which shows how God put all mankind's sin on Jesus Christ, who died and rose again the third day according to the scriptures (ref. 1 Corinthians 15:3-4). Salvation (the remission of sins) has been preached in Jesus' name since his resurrection from the dead (see Acts 2). Those who believe on Jesus Christ for his free gift of eternal life are forgiven their sins (see John 3:16, Romans 6:23).
@@sm8johnthreesixteen Hebrew 9 22 is wrong and you too. Isaiah 55 7 and 2 Chr 7 14 are only 2 examples of forgiveness without blood. You can even use money, charity or even flour🤦♀️🤣
And salvation by faith is wrong, because every man will judged by his deeds and even words. (Many verses show this)
@@sm8johnthreesixteen so basically: Jesus is useless. Rebecca and Elisabeth are viewed as righteous in God's eyes long before Jesus. David too etc. And this all has noting to do with Jesus.
@@sm8johnthreesixteen On top of that no man dies for sins of others (Ezekiel 18) which refutes Xtianity again
Could we say it doesn't matter where the line is between fact and metaphor and the importance is the message?
Jesus spoke of the tale of Jonah as though it really happened.In using it as symbolic of his resurrection, he said it was the only sign that he would give the Jewish leaders.And yet, when he supposedly rose from the dead, he did not present himself to the Jewish leaders afterward, just his followers.Hmm?
Jesus does this a lot. Its such great ammo when believers try to say certain things were always intended as metaphor. However in this case, I could see the case being made for Jesus just using it as an example, even in its metaphor frame.
Jesus Christ showed himself alive after his resurrection from the dead to the apostles that had been eyewitnesses of his ministry as well as others: Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly; Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before of God, even to us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead (Peter is speaking here--Acts 10:40-41). These same apostles would preach forgiveness of sins to be received through faith in Christ in Jerusalem, including to the very men that were religious leaders that called for his death (see Acts 4:22, 5:27-40), even in the face of arrest, threats, imprisonment, and beatings.
Hmmm....Yes. And did you ever stop to consider why this was so?
@@sm8johnthreesixteen Very well stated. Amen!
Finally
big fish
Ha!
😂😂😂😂...I see what you did.
Can't be slow....
I've been reading this book as a kind of critique ever since i started reading the bible from a secular point of view as it seems to mock the attitude the prophets take to the destruction of life. I honestly think it was made to critique the pure vitural towards other groups and was just taken into the bible because of its depiction of God as merciful and kind.
I always thought Jonah didn't want to go to Nineveh because he was scared. It wasn't till i read the book that i understood that he didn't want to go because he hated Nineveh.
Prophet of Yahweh: "Warn them? So they're NOT destroyed? You know, I think I'll go for a cruise instead."
@@Badficwriter lol. I was looking at it through my eyes at the time hearing a story in church as a child. The thought of being a preacher terrified me.
Jonah is one of my favorite stories *because* of that flipped narrative where God actually looks something like a good guy who is willing to forgive.
It's a nice relief from all the violence in the Bible.
Also to further defend it, this is one of the few times where God can forgive *without* sacrifice. They put on sackcloth, fasted, and cried to God.
It's such a light in the midst of a terrible series of prophecies about destruction.
I don't care if it's literally true, it's one of the few times in the Bible we actually see goodness (minus the part where God causes the storm to punish all the sailors)
i do love that the one time god is like this, it is most likely a case of satire...anyone else see the irony here?
@@MindShift-Brandon I guess I had never thought of it as satire before, but that's kind of an amusing thought that the oft-proclaimed goodness of God in the Bible is satire against the destructive God of the majority of the Bible.
I think another passage to consider in this light is John 8, (funny coincidence that that is also highly debated as far as historical accuracy)
In John 8, Jesus is effectively undermining the Levitical law to make it powerless (which is good for him because that law in Leviticus about stoning adulterers seemed fairly oppressive), but it's funny that it came from Jesus who is sometimes claimed to be the ultimate fulfillment of the law. No, it looks to me like he was trying to override it without getting too direct so that people might not notice.
I think it may be reworked from a persian or babylonian story and it's stylized from the people submitting to a king/ emperor. Like the book of daniel though they didn't really bother with the actual history.
Trying to imagine how animals sin and what it looks like when they repent. 😂
Lol. Yes a bit ridiculous