I own many 1911s, none of which are 80s and, although I knew the basic differences, I had never seen it explained in this much detail. Very informative, thank you.
No kidding 🤣🤣 Over and over and over yak yak yak. I get it. Don’t like don’t buy, real simple. Worthless video by someone who can’t even name most simple trigger parts by proper name.
Yes, that's full of mim parts and search google for the parts makeup on your Springfield Armory. The SA frames and slides are forged at the Imbel factory in Brazil (and excellent). 1911 manufacturers will then cut corners on cheap mim parts of unknown origin. The 1911 was designed to have all milled and barstock parts as designed by Browning. This is FAR more important than the tired old firing pin block discussion on this video. I had a Springfield Armory do the same thing and it was a cracked mim sear- not good. Check out good companies like EGW and Ed Brown for barstock replacement parts like the hammer, sear, and disconnector. And look if the SA has a mim slide stop. Not a good place for MIM I believe as well. Other parts to look for are mim extractors. All mim parts are technically out of specification for a military 1911, but places like the grip safety seem OK for example. You can build up your SA a little at a time, send it off to the gunsmith for full rebuild, or have it fixed under warranty and deal with it. I know that SA has lots of fans but this has been my experience. I have Colt's on the low end myself and for the good stuff I have custom 1911's made by Les Baer, Ed Brown, Ted Yost, Nighthawk Custom, etc. For a all barstock production 1911, Dan Wesson is the ticket. Just my $.02. Actually check here for mim: www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=1125251
Nothing at all wrong with Series 80. One more safety feature on the gun. My Sig works great, never had it fail. Half cock is NOT a reliable safety. Anybody who knows will tell you not to use it. The added parts do not add enough resistance to even notice. I did a trigger job, polished the "80" parts also. Got a 2 1/2 lb trigger.
Great job explaining the differences. Just FYI, at least newer kimbers, use a series 80 plunger without being dependant on trigger motion to operate the plunger. Instead, it uses the grip safety depression to move the plunger.
I guess that's better but even more pointless. The grip safety spring resistance is the same direction as the firing pin spring, the trigger is opposite direction so inertia direction from dropping in a manner that could move the firing pin actually prevents the trigger from moving
Thank you so much! I bought a Bar Sto 1911 Colt series 80 Government model last year and because it has a built in muzzle brake I have no clue how to disassemble to clean. I asked the FFL where I bought it and he has no clue either. So finally I reached out to the manufacturer and he gave me a brief instruction on disassembly. After tear down, I shockingly realized the firing pin stop plunger is missing!!! I thought during the tear down it flew away!!! So I started to search everywhere on my desk, carpet, floor, under the sofa, and couldn't find the damn thing. I thought to myself, I just screwed up a high end gun! So I rushed to eBay and located a set of the plunger and spring and ordered. When I further disassembled the whole gun, I found out the plunger lever is also missing and the trigger bar lever is trimmed on the short arm so it's just like a spacer without any function. I got really curious and searched UA-cam and came across your video! Thank goodness for your. detailed explanation with video and graphics. Now I know these parts were removed intentionally and I have advanced in my little knowledge of the 1911.
they sell shim kits as well to remove the system on the side so the sear and disconnect don't slide around, you should really consider making your own 80% or 100% frame build, might teach way more then you ever thought possible..! 1911/2011 is not like building any other gun! it's intricate and every part is fitted and worked to match each other! parts are over priced though manufactures act as if they already did the work!!
Last night, I took my Colt Series 80 completely apart for a FULL cleaning for the first time in about 5 years. The amount of dirt, lint, grease, and gack that was on the internal parts (including these four "evil" parts) was amazing. I had to boil the frame and most of the internal parts to soften up the gack enough to get them to come clean. Yet, all that mess didn't effect the reliability of the pistol. I guess you were right when you said (0:30) it is a gun that continues to operate when dirty.
Experience trumps theory every time. I owned a Colt National Match Series 70 and now I carry a Sig Fastback Nightmare. The Sig trigger is equal to (maybe superior to) the National Match - four pounds, but so crisp it feels like two and a half. So while I appreciate his argument that it has extra parts, I've honestly never noticed and couldn't care less.
My gunsmith was an armorer in the army with the 101st Airborne, amongst other duties of his. While he was in the army in the 1960s, he did extensive tests on the 1911 and this supposed propensity to go off when dropped. As it turns out, you can get the firearm to go off if you drop it off of a building from 68 ft, and it falls muzzle first, on concrete, not grass, not Blacktop. On concrete. So if you're carrying a 1911, and you fall 68 ft off of a building. Like from the 7th floor. And you land on concrete, you're going to want your firearm to go off and put you out of your misery just in case you might survive such a thing. Because you're not going to survive very long and you're going to be in a great deal of discomfort.
I know some companies made their firing pins smaller/lighter and added a larger stronger firing pin spring instead of going the series 80 route in order to pass the drop tests. I think the primers started igniting from drops at around 3 feet on the standard series 70s, which is about waist height for most people. So conversely, if you want to make a series 70 safer from an accidental discharge due to a drop(which should never happen in the first place) without sacrificing the functionality of your trigger, just throw in a titanium firing pin and a stronger spring.
@@mach5zx10r It wasn't a hammer drop test. It's from firing pin "bounce" or inertia. Muzzle strike, firing pin moves forward strikes the primer and detonates a round. "Accidental discharge"
I was overjoyed to see this presentation. I fell in love with the 1911 back in 1965 as a Navy recruit and have since built several of my own out parts from all over and ran into my first series 80 about 5 years ago and wondered why on earth someone would add a 6th safety to the safest handgun on the planet. Without consulting any gun manufacturing ego maniacs, after a failure to fire, I took it upon myself (I'm a retired machinist) to cut my own shim and throw away those extra parts, fearing I had broken some law. I feel vindicated and happy as a clam that my actions are backed up by gun experts. The series 80 should be called the PC80, because that's all it is.
I'd been a gunsmith's apprentice for 3 years before I came across a series 80. My first reaction was "what the fuck is this?" When I disassembled it and some weird plates came falling out of it
I know a vietnam MP that threw his holster into his jeep from the driver side over to the passenger seat and the gun went off. I imagine its extremely rare and take the perfect throw and a tender primer but it could happen and I don't see any downside of the series 80 so I actually prefer the firing pin safety but I seem to be alone in that thought. There is never a time that I want my pistol to fire without me pressing the trigger and i never have gotten a malfunction from the firing pin safety therefor I'm all for it. Everyone to their own though.
Yeah, again follow safety rules- like not throwing loaded firearms anywhere and you don't have that problem. FOLLOW SAFETY rules its really not hard. And yes Im a vet who has served outside wire also and I can tell there is no firearm that when not handled in a safe that wont have negligent discharges. Don't see any downside? He just spent several minutes showing you the downsides. Extra parts top break, go wrong, and complicate action are never a good idea. Unless your a lawyer as he said. BTW id the gun was in the holster it was not the lack of drop safety that caused the gun you mentioned to discharge because in Vietnam era holster the end of the barrel was covered. Drop discharges occur when the gun hits just right at just the right impact strength on the end of the barrel. Likely the thumb safety wasn't on, and some GI's even put a band on the grip safety to ensure there was no issue with not firing due to poor grip.
@@highlandspiper8838 The guy this happened to was GunBlue490 on youtube. If you know him you would know he doesn't lie and that's why I believe it. Maybe it wasn't in his holster idk. As for more parts to wear out that's total nonsense. All parts wear eventually that's why you do PMCS and replace them when needed. I'd rather spend the occasional small amount for a few parts than someday drop a gun because I'm in a situation where my hands are bloody and the gun goes off who knows maybe expelling my last round, or worse. You can say "FOLLOW SAFETY RULES" but the fact is in certain situations shit happens no matter how safe you are. You can't tell the bad guy "hey wait up I gotta wipe my buddies blood off my hands"
I've been carrying either a Colt Commander or Officer since 1996, both are series 80, as long as you properly maintain the pistol you won't have any problems with it. Both of them are the most reliable pistols I've had in my gun safe. Every pistol I've encountered that is having problems, the majority of them are not being cleaned properly.
+Dale Crummie Couldn't agree with you more. I own multiple 1911s both 70 & 80 series. Friction from extra parts is extremely negligible. I'd suggest anyone who'd like to verify that for themselves get a good trigger pull gauge to get a reading with and without the 80 series parts - I've done it, and as I said - negligable to non-existent. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but these opinions unfortunately are too often backed up with zero factual evidence. Even my father has a 1911 he purchased in the early 80s with close to 40K rounds through it. It has one of the finest triggers I've ever pulled, and yep, it's an 80 series. It has experienced exactly zero malfunctions due to the 80 series parts. Of all the people I've ever heard put forth this argument, not one of them has ever actually seen a failure of that kind either. Scour the internet and you'll find exactly zero instances of a failure due to 80 series parts.Don't get me wrong, I love 70 series - easier to reassemble for sure, but outside of that they don't function any better or worse than an 80 series, nor are they any more or less reliable. Want a GREAT 70 series style 1911 at an extremely reasonable price? Ruger's SR1911s are probably the most bang for the buck right now - completely set up (lowered & flared port, extended thumb safety, beavertail, skeletonized trigger/hammer, novak sights, etc) for about $300 less than a comparable Colt, and far less than Wilson Combat, Ed Brown, etc...
Yea,that why they are the most selling 1911 on the planet,somebody likes em..and I was on a tight budget and that's alI i could afford at the time,wasn't even going to buy a pistol right now but couldn't pass up the deal...and they had them on guns and gallery awhile back and loved them...just cause its cheap dosent make it junk,not in this case anyway...but each his own.
Kimber series 80s are different than the Colt series 80s. The Colt is activated by the trigger which cause a chain reaction on other parts to deactivate the firing pin block, therefore, it affects the trigger pull. Kimbers are different, the firing pin is deactivated by grip safety, the trigger bar function just like a 70 series, so by the time you squeeze the trgger, it will feel just like a 70 but with the benefits of an 80 series. I have both an older series 70 Kimber and the new series 80 Kimber, both feels the same as long as the pull weights are the same.
Gary Hempel yea I thought I said that in the video or in the description, the schwartz system has four parts also. But you have to take the rear sight off to get to the top slide pieces.. Colt refused to use the schwartz system stating the reason was it was NOT reliable, Kimber choose to use it. www.mouseguns.com/kimrev/swartz.jpg
This is exactly why bought my Rock Island Armory FS Tactical. A good series 70 for less than a Kimber. I was looking into a Kimber before I made my purchase and I’m glad I took the time to research the differences between manufacturers before I pulled the trigger on a Kimber so to speak
Some times you just need to vent. Other times people just need the information drilled into them 15 or so times. Even less times, people get the information first try.
Yes you right all day on this, my 1911 is a 70 series steel colt commander. Have had it for decades and it still works fine. Well done and explained. Thank you.
Thanks for the video, I knew the Series 80 had this extra firing pin block but never understood exactly how it worked or what to look for. I have a cheap Chinese Norinco 1911 (M1911A1 .45) and thankfully it is a series 70!
Thanks for the explanation. Dad was a 1911 fanatic. He traded 1911's and would tweak them to "get them right" then sell it to get another. When I was a teen in the 70's I shot the farm truck Ruger Speed-6 357 with very hot 38 SPL cases as my pistol. Dad would always make me try out his latest "fixed" 1911. Since I was young and tender I didn't like 45 and hard hitting calibers. Dad made sure I could strip and reassemble various models of 1911s. He always told me I should get a Colt as that was the standard. Dad's carry piece was a late 70's Colt Commander in 9mm. Six years ago I got a Colt Government model in 9mm. It has been my range gun for the past 6 years. My guesstimate is that it has 19k to 21k rounds through it. Up until about two months ago it has been a good running gun but became a jam-o-matic. I had only field stripped it for cleaning. I figured a full strip and re-spring was in order. Once I stripped it I realized I had extra parts. You put things back into perspective. I have just finished putting it back together for the the third time but correctly this time. Thank you.
If a series 70 1911 were to be dropped, and it DID discharge (unlikely, I think), it would be unlikely to cause any injuries. That's because it would have to hit muzzle down, and would fire into the ground, concrete, etc.
+Think Like A Cop - The Rest Of The Story Thank you for an interesting video. I'm new to 1911s and just bought a Ruger SR1911 and was not aware of this difference. I wonder if your gun show gunsmith had worked with only series 80 1911s which had already had the four parts removed and replaced with the SINGLE spacer. That could have lead him to conclude that there was only one additional part in a series 80 Vs a series 70. That would not an accurate, informed or experienced conclusion but would at least account for his statement.
Your really excited about this, damn! Anyway... I just bought a Kimber Custom II. It is a series 70, uses all series 70 parts but it does have a firing pin safety. It's just a different design, much simpler. The new firing pin safety is acted upon with the grip safety and not the trigger.
@@HeyGunPeople Thanks, I didn't know what that system was called, just started doing research on the 1911, as I just bought it. Got it from someone that didn't like the 1911 as much as they thought they did, lol. Seems like a better system but like everything, it will probably cause an issue at some point. The FPS systems never bothered me as I grew up in the age of polymer strikers and they all have an FPS system. I'm a Fabricator and Machinist, the MIM parts don't bother me either, technology has come a long way and MIM can be just as good as machined and forged parts (in most areas), regardless of fealings about it, a quality MIM part is quality, even toolsteel and forged parts can break. I feel Kimber has made good strides in redeeming themselves from the past with cheap outsourced parts. The only thing I can't forgive is the plastic main spring housing. That was replaced first thing. Hell... A MIM'd part would be welcomed. Either way, got it at a good price, it's a range toy for me. I'd totally carry a 1911 if people weren't so scared and open carry was more socially acceptable, for CC I'll stick to my Walther P99 or Glock 19. I think for my first 1911 the Kimber is nice. I had the AR 15 flu for awhile now it seems the 1911 bug has stricken me and I'll be buying more ... Definitely doing and 80% kit 1911, actually will probably do that next. Sorry for the rant. Take care.
Kimbers that have “II” in the name has a safety like the series 80. For Example Kimber’s Custom TLE II is a series 80 Kimber’s Eclipse Custom is a series 70.
I'm looking at my kimber right now and it is a series 80 but the pin is disengaged with the grip safety not the trigger. So it doesnt affect trigger pull weight
Well now I've decided on that Springfield instead of the Kimber. Honestly it saves me enough to get a billet stainless one-piece magwell/mainspring housing and 2 10rd Wilson Combat mags.
If its a Colt Series 80 Vs. Nighthawk series 70, the difference is noticeable. I also have polished a complete series 80 to fell exactly like a series 70. It's all in what you want and the work. As far as I am concerned the 1911 trigger is so great, even the worst made 1911 triggers feel good!!
You are right. More moving parts equals more points of failure. More wear and tear. More places to lubricate. Oil attracts dirt. More oil mens more dirt. And even if it was one more part, it's still one more part of failure. That gunsmith might have worked on 1911 his whole life but if he can't count to four, I doubt he graduated high school.
Kimbers do not have a swarts safety people! it has the same trigger controls as the "70" - The grip safety depresses the firing pin stop NOT THE TRIGGER !!
Good Luck America she’s correct the kimber series 2 has a disconnector and a sear that’s exactly the same configuration as the ‘70’ . The only difference and has absolutely nothing to do with the trigger is that the grip safety pushes the rod to depress the firing pin block plunger . Other than that the trigger function is exactly the same as the ‘70’ series . You make no mention of this on your video , I agree 80 series pistols are not my cup of tea either. God bless!
I believe this was a result of people carrying.. with one in the pipe and letting the hammer down on a live round . I made that mistake when I was a young man and I dropped the pistol in my bedroom and barely avoided a injury.... I actually stopped carrying the 1911 because when people saw it on my hip with a hammer cocked back they would lose their minds.... I have actually had people calling law enforcement. One time a guy threatened to beat me up because I was threatening everybody in the whole place with the hammer back. It got to the point where because of public perception I had to carry something... It's my observation series 80 is the idea that you can carry it with the hammer down and one in the pipe
This isn't only for drop resistance. If you carry in condition 2, with a round in the chamber but the hammer DOWN, then you really should have a series 80. Without it, you can accidentally discharge if you slip off the hammer when cocking it back, without fully engaging it into the pawl.
Seems to me the thumb safety should have been made to block the hammer like a 92fs. From what I understand even the US military did not leave one in the chamber with 1911s, am I wrong? If so imo 1911s are only good for home defense, not cocked and locked EDC. Yes I would never leave one in the chamber at home with any firearm, too dangerous and you have more time at home btwn alarms and dogs. I like DA/SA Beretta 92fs’ and PX4 Compacts for EDC. Call me old fashioned but striker fires are the pistol equivalent of an electric car.
That plunger looks exactly like the plunger on our GLOCKS. furthermore Rick i would never buy a series 80 for the same reasons you mentioned. I know this video has been made public years ago. I am ashamed to say I played hooky that day and never watched the video. So glad i am brushing up on my schooling this evening. Thank You Rick.. BIG RON OVER AND OUT......
i carried my Colt Gold Cup National Match series 80 for 20yrs as a LAPD Gang Unit Ofc.plenty of situations when i needed my trusty colt and it NEVER FAILED me once. But i do value your opinion brother! great video and very subjective!!
I was told that Ruger includes a titanium firing pin and stronger spring on their 1911s so it you do drop the Series 70 on it's muzzle, the inertia is less on the titanium firing pin and it will not strike the primer on the bullet because of its light weight and heavier spring. I don't know if this is BS or fact, but if anybody knows for sure, please chime in. Great video...thanks!
I really get a kick when I see videos where folks bemoan the series 80 over the 70.... yet like Glocks and similar striker guns.... THAT USE A SIMILAR SYSTEM!!!! That being said, I own and train with both, still have either to fail. I did the mods here years ago for S&G's and to test the trigger gauge.... ZERO difference on the average pull on 20 pulls (after it was broken in). Seriously, no reason to mess around with an 80 if that's what you have. I just got done doing some training with mine over a weekend of 22 boxes of ammo (yep, 1,100 rounds). Cheap ammo, nothing special (Blazer) and yep.... not a single failure either. Whatever ya have, just enjoy it, shoot it and if you carry it - TRAIN with it.
I was thinking of buying a Springfield 1911, now that I know that it's not a series 80 I'm going to buy it for sure. good video very informative, thank you.
All personal preference, use your own mind. Don’t always rely on what someone else says but yes they are in needed extra parts though 99% of 1911 owners wouldn’t notice any difference between series 70 and 80.
My Colt Mark IV Series 70 was purchased in the mid 70s and in about 1987 reknowned pistol smith Bill Wilson offered a package deal on customizing 1911s. The package deal was to replace the conventional hammer, trigger, barrel and other related parts with match parts. A beaver tail grip safety was installed as well. In addition, I had the slide milled and Bomar adjustable rear sights installed, and the entire pistol was hard chromed. This handgun is an excellent shooter. I later had some custom leather including a holster, belt, and two double magazine holders bought from Sam Andrews of Andrews Custom Leather.
I have a Colt Series 70 that I bought decades ago. I sent the basic gun to Bill Wilson in 1988 who had a package deal at the time to replace all of the stock parts with match grade barrel, trigger, hammer, ambidextrous safety and beaver tail grip safety. He milled the slide and installed Bomar sights. The gun was then fully hard chromed. It is a nice shooter
I appreciate your video and you taking the time to explain the difference and function, however, was it necessary to make a 5 minute video three times as long just so you can say the same thing over and over and over and over again?
To be fair the general public is pretty stupid, most people probably need things said 3 different ways for them to actually understand it.. That said, this guy at the gun show really got under his skin with his only 1 extra moving part rhetoric, lol
lol... i would love to see the actual difference in trigger pull between th 70 and the 80... not enough to make a difference... SO MUCH FRICTION... lol. and the dirt and grime!! and the parts breaking seems to be a common issue!! lol... I just love firearm snobs that think they know everything!!
I believe the kimbers (maybe only some of them) use a firing pin safety that is deactivated by the grip safety and not the trigger. Also known as Schwartz safety.
Isn’t he saying there is no need for a firing pin safety? I’m pretty sure that a firing pin safety that’s deactivated by the grip safety would incorporate other parts that are again unnecessary. Correct me if I’m wrong, just a thought though.
I have owned many Series 80's and I convert em to 70's easily. The bottom piece if the Series 80 junk is called the birds head. You can either grind it down so it is just a round washer or replace it with the proper thickness washer, install it in place of the bird's head and you have a facsimilie of a Series 70--throw all the other parts away--it costs nothing to do this. It is effectively a Series 70, feels and shoots the same.
I have heard of series 80 causing the gun to malfunction when the small lever breaks or pieces of brass jam the plunger from getting dirty, I chose the Springfield Armory M1911A1 because it is made the original way and takes standard parts, but the later Springfields use a different sized firing pin made of titanium to pass drop safety tests.
If you use the right firing pin spring drop safety wont be a issue. A lighter Actual pin and a heavier spring can be put in if your truly worried about it to negate any issues.
I have a beautiful Series 80 and no one can tell the difference in it and a 70s. Sure, there are lots of crappy Colts out there, as anyone knew back when they were made, but the 80s are safer to carry.
I witnessed an A1 with a stock firing pin, Wollfe HD firing pin spring, Golden Sabre 185 +P, dropped 33 inches onto the muzzle and DISCHARGE. I think the Schwartz Safety is a good thing.
My delicate sensibilities are offended by your honesty! I need a hug! All joking aside, politicians are appeasing people that have been pampered from birth. The same people that decry all firearms are oblivious to this fact: they are safe because men with guns protect them.
Ruger SR1911s are series 70 based as well. Very reliable and well made firearm for the money. Smith and Wesson E series are series 70 based too. Fact is less complicated means more reliable period!
Great info. Been an owner and fan of 1911’s for decades, so my lovely wife decided I needed a “ new” one and ,,, yep she got me a series 80, so where can I find a spacer???
I got a series 70 and I just tried hitting it hard with my hand and the hammer didn't drop. No need for that other safety. 1911 already has many safety's. NO need for 4.
It's not about hammer drop. I don't think that was ever an issue. The point of the video is that series 80s added 5 parts to their firing cycle to stop the firing pin from moving forward. For some reason people have claimed that should you drop a 1911, barrel facing downward, that the firing pin(despite the strong ass spring there that keeps it away from the primer) would travel forward enough to cause the gun to fire. Despite the gun cycling more violently than most people can drop there gun. It's a solution to a manufactured problem
I get understand and respect the people who own the series 70 . I have a Para p12 that is an 80 . Im honestly unsure if it adds any more protection to the whole safety aspect but enjoy knowing its there . I will do a 70 one day.
i have a kimber that is a series 70. the series 80 kimbers have the "II" on the name, if it does not have that then it is a series 70. which the kimber super carry is.
You nailed it brother 👍🏼 Is there a way to determine the year my Series 70 Colt Combat Commander was manufactured by looking at the serial number or some other type of identification numbers?
I've pulled the triggers on both in blind "taste tests". It isn't until a few things happen that the average 1911 user would notice the difference. 1. You know your ass from your elbow. 2. You know what a crisp break with no creep feels like, which most average 1911 people who have a 1911 but it's just one of many guns in there collection and could care less don't look for a glass breaking trigger. Series 80 is an average sloppy 1911 trigger, still o.k. for the average Joe. And yes early kimbers, which I lament letting go were series 70.
How many documented accidental discharges from 1911 drops have there been? If it's thousands, it's a problem; if it's every other visit of Halley's Comet, the additional guts seem an overreaction. If it's never, that's another reason to hang all lawyers. I have a Colt Series 70, and one of the differences on my gun is the split, sprung barrel bushing and flared barrel muzzle. I bought it specifically for that feature, which locks the barrel more securely in the bushing on return to battery and improves accuracy, in the sense of repeatability (precision, really). Barrel bushings have to be loose for the mechanism to work - test this by putting a dowel in the barrel end of your 1911 and moving it up and down when the gun is in battery. The barrel moves within the bushing because there has to be clearance (slop), in order for the slide to cycle. Custom gunsmiths tighten up that clearance when accurizing the gun. But the tighter the clearance, the greater the likelihood of binding - especially when dirty. That can stop the gun from going into full battery, causing a cycle failure. The Series 70 I have has a bushing with sprung "fingers" that grip the flared barrel end tightly when in battery, and as the slide cycles rearward after firing, the fingers move off the flared (larger diameter area) near the muzzle and release the barrel so it can drop under the rotary motion of the barrel link. For me, that's the primary advantage of a Series 70.
The new Kimber KHX does NOT have a firing pin safety. I just picked up the Pro model and couldn't be happier. Kimber says its the only modern Kimber 1911 without the FPS.
I've never had an issue with my colt series 80. Just about every gun has a firing pin block and the triggers are fine. If you can't handle a pushy trigger or the "slap" of an ak trigger them basically you need to get over it and train. There is a point and purpose to keeping it and it really doesn't make a difference in reliability. You say it has all this pressure and rubbing and friction etc but you act like it's plastic. Relax the 1911 is still a workhorse
I really enjoyed the explanation. Just wanted to let you know I own a Kimber Classic Stainless manufactured sometime in the 90's early 2000's. It to my surprise is a series 70.
Kimber doesn't use a "Series 80" design. It uses a Swartz safety, which is activated by the grip safety, and has none of these pieces interfering with the trigger group.
Haven't had an issue. You're paranoid. Colt has it in my Combat Elite and I shoot a lot of rounds and I also use it as my carry. I am not the slightest bit worried.
+Jeremy Kieler LOL, people love to defend their weapon, I don't care if you buy 5 with it and love it, I put out the info for those that want to choose wisely not defend what they bought without knowing the different. It is NOT paranoid if it is true.
The Series 80 firing pin block / safety came about because it IS possible for a series 70 pistol (without the block), if dropped, muzzle down, from a high enough height, onto a hard enough surface, for the firing pin's inertia to overcome the force of the firing pin spring, and move far enough to fire a chambered cartridge. A lot of ifs, but it IS possible, so to get past some states' requirements and to pass "drop tests", the Series 80 system was designed. I don't like it either, it ruins the nice 1911 trigger pull. I don't drop loaded weapons muzzle down from a high level onto hardened steel or concrete floors, so it's not an issue for me. Further, a titanium firing pin and an "extra strength" firing pin spring will greatly lessen the above possibility.
This is so overblown. While I agree, the 80 "safety feature" was not needed, failure rates are low enough that it doesn't matter. I would never not buy a gun because of this.
If John Browning had included the system on his original design this video would be titled "Why series 70 1911's suck and will get you killed." I own both, I really don't worry about the 80 failing.
The 1905 model didn't have any safeties on it at all. DoD was concerned about this so a couple of 1905s were modified with the grip safety (poorly at first) and after a recall and refit what you had was the 1907 model with a functional grip safety. The thumb safety wasn't introduced until 1910 at the behest of the U.S. Cavalry. This made the weapon safer to carry in psn 1 while on horseback. The 1911 is the finished product put into military service.
I think it fair to say that transfer bars and rebounding firing pins were also not included in most guns.., and that guns like the 97 winchester shotgun could go off while lowering the hammer and there was no safe way to really carry most guns except on an empty chamber.. are you good with only carrying on an empty chamber?
@@Odin029 Yes, the high-power has a firing pin safety. That said, it's a very unusual design, and uses essentially a mini Rube Goldberg machine for the internals, ironically, because Browning had to avoid his own patents, which he had sold the Colt. That said, for a modern Duty or personal defense Weapon, It's become pretty widely acknowledged they're carrying the gun that isn't drop safe is not the best idea. If you don't like the series 80, there's another option for the 1911, called the Schwartz firing pin safety which was invented by a Colt engineer in the 30s. It uses the grip safety to actuate instead of the trigger.
Dude, you really need to relax. I get it, that you don't like Series 80 1911 pistols. Actually, the terms "Series 70" and "Series 80", refers specifically to Colt. It's incorrect to associate it with any other brand. I do understand where you're coming from though. On their "II" series guns, Kimber uses a firing pin safety that is deactivated by depressing the grip safety, where as the Colt system shown here requires additional pressure on the trigger to operate it. Not all current production Kimbers feature an additional firing pin safety, so you essentially, still have a Series 70 "style" Kimber. Personally, the only issue that I have with my Kimbers with the firing pin safety is the fact that the rear sight that is notoriously tight, must be removed to service it should you have a problem. Most of my 1911s are Series 70 "style", but I don't have a problem with a nice Series 80 "style...sort of" either. While some of my best triggers are on the 70 "style" guns, some aren't any better than some of my 80 "style...sort of" triggers. I don't own any Series 80 Colts.
Enjoyed the video. Liked. Subscribed. I have four Colt 1911's, Commander 9 & 45, Government 9 & 45, all series 80. Now that I've been educated thanks to your simple explanations, could you make a video actually converting a series 80 to series 70, along with what parts/brands you would recommend?
It's not too hard. Field strip it. Move the safety to the halfway position, pop the pin and remove. Remove the pins holding the hammer assembly, remove the parts, put in the midified part, reassemble. For the top, remove the firing pin cover, take it out, drop the plunger and spring and throw them away, then reassemble completely.
OH NO! Say it isn’t so! I think this is the first time we’ve ever disagreed. Actually it’s not a total disagreement at all. I understand why some, like yourself don’t like the series 80. Years ago when I purchased my first Colt 1911. It’s a Combat Target Stainless Series 80 and I fell in love 😍 with this weapon the first time at the range. Shot marksmanship scores consistently from then on. I do clean and oil my 1911’s more thoroughly more often than most of my weapons just because of those things you mention. I should probably consider removing the trigger safety parts. Loved the animations in this video! Thanks again for another great video!
I'm completely fully educated in 1911 and everybody can say that blah blah blah blah and the theory behind the series 70 with the inertia ,the chances that happening are slim to none but why would you want to risk it .there's nothing wrong with the series 80 , it is a fact that is a superior gun it takes away the the accidental discharge inertia . can a series 70 guarantee 100% of inertia theory won't happen no it can't .can a series 80 guarantee that that won't happen yes a series 80 can . Those four extra parts that makes up the series 80 does nothing to the trigger pull whatsoever I bet you a million dollars if a person who's never even shot a gun and was never even explained to what a series 80 versus a series 70 and you just let him shoot a series 80 for like a year or two and then came out with a series 70 it wouldn't know the difference . Anybody who thinks the series 70 is more Superior is just trying to be argumentative . People acting like it's a damn bullet button or something . Do you really feel comfortable in carrying a series 70 1911 with the firing pin being held back by nothing but a spring that's pretty scary .I've shot series 80s many times matter of fact I feel like the trigger on an 80 is more crisp than a series 70 . I love both guns don't get me wrong but I'm for safety . My series 70 collection is for show only but if I'm going to carry it's going to be a series 80 because it's safe 100% .
Thank you, very much for educating me on this matter. I'm getting a Dan Wesson based on your advice. All those gun makers not making the 80 series should thank you as well.
Thank you so much... now I understand definitely the difference between Series 70 & 80. Your explanation first class. Sig Sauer and Kimber produce like series 80 - I ne\/er know it. Ty for this information. Coco Suri is from Germany - but I well understand all. You and your family ha\/e a pretty life all the time...... C S
+Coco Suri thanks glad it helps.. :) I have pictures of Kimber and Sig safeties on my site, they are not in video. www.thinklikeahorse.org/All_About_Guns.html#6
There’s a reason for everything, even if you don’t know it. Be careful with altering firearms. Great lawyers will pick your intensions apart, in self defense situations. Altering triggers will get you in big trouble. Just be wise enough to research before you purchase. Series 70, series 80, really doesn’t matter. Long as the stick goes boom when you need it. This seemed to be more about hate towards a couple manufacturers.
Great video. There are so many companies making production 1911's, it's hard to decide what you want, especially if you don't have the funds for a custom 1911 from one of the dozens of custom 1911 makers. I'm looking at several, this video helps me know what to look for more. thanks for this awesome video.
Very interesting to learn more of the inner workings of the 1911 pistol. But it's kinda heavy on the opinion though, not that I don't agree with you but getting told the same thing 20 times kind of insults my intelligence. Improving the quality of the trigger definetly is a good enough reason to mod a series 80 or just go for a series 70. I see a flaw in the modification of the series 80 though, the plunger hole does not get covered up so dirt is gonna get in there with your firing pin. I've never heard problems with internal firing pin safeties in other type guns but more moving parts could in extreme cases indeed lead to malfunctions. Other than that I have a physics-based reason for there not to be a firing pin safety in this type of pistol, the firing pin spring (which looks pretty beefy) should be more than sufficient to keep the firing pin away from the primer when dropped. In conclusion: series 70 1911's give you reliability, low drag & godspeed ~~Peace~~
Not sure why the guys are ranting about you repeating yourself so often. What do you do when you study for an exam and need the work to stick in your head???????????? You revise your work, good explanation buddy, keep it up. Oh and by the way I carry a Thompson .45 series 70 and I'm loving it
Any gunsmith worth his salt can do a trigger job on a 80 series & you wouldn't be able to tell the difference. Only the "Internet Experts" know otherwise!
@@Lehmann108 I have one Colt series 80 in my collection. And keep it because it belonged to a fellow Veteran. I did a trigger job and deburred all the parts. The trigger is as crisp as one of my STI 2011 the take up is even less. Bottom line. Believe it or not it is a real tac driver to my surprise. One and a half inch groups at 15 yards.
I have an early Kimber Classic Custom from many years ago as well. It is the 70 series. I have loved the 1911 platform ever since I was the small arms PO in the Navy. I don't mind the 80 series 1911, but I've sold all of those. Yeah, I regret it...
The guys at the gun show was talking about swartz type FPBs. They are not series 80. In reality, the reliability issue is all gun community nonsense as is the trigger pull.
The reason Glock uses this is because the Glock striker freefloats. 1911’s have a spring that always biases the striker to the rear. Not that the 1911 can’t have an ND… but less likely.
I own many 1911s, none of which are 80s and, although I knew the basic differences, I had never seen it explained in this much detail. Very informative, thank you.
I will gladly buy series 80s but I pay bottom prices for em, then do my own conversion for free.
I hope they make a series 90. I want to see this guy have an aneurysm.
They already did. The Colt Double Eagle, the Double Action modification of 1911s during the late 1980s.
I own one.
No kidding 🤣🤣
Over and over and over yak yak yak. I get it. Don’t like don’t buy, real simple. Worthless video by someone who can’t even name most simple trigger parts by proper name.
@@lancedacus156 his problem is the fact that its not well documented, and when he asks people dont understand what he is saying.
😂😂
Hahaha!
I have a feeling this guy doesn't like series 80's....
SuperDriver, hes just spueing myths and legends in an angry arrogant tone for trolls.
mikey flyzlow i just bought my first 1911 and the hammer was stuck in back wouldnt release with trigger pull , should i be worried about the s80 parts
Depends on the 1911 and the quality of the small parts. If it's cheap, then you have mim.
Vince L springfield armory a1 loaded 1911
Yes, that's full of mim parts and search google for the parts makeup on your Springfield Armory. The SA frames and slides are forged at the Imbel factory in Brazil (and excellent). 1911 manufacturers will then cut corners on cheap mim parts of unknown origin. The 1911 was designed to have all milled and barstock parts as designed by Browning. This is FAR more important than the tired old firing pin block discussion on this video. I had a Springfield Armory do the same thing and it was a cracked mim sear- not good. Check out good companies like EGW and Ed Brown for barstock replacement parts like the hammer, sear, and disconnector. And look if the SA has a mim slide stop. Not a good place for MIM I believe as well. Other parts to look for are mim extractors. All mim parts are technically out of specification for a military 1911, but places like the grip safety seem OK for example. You can build up your SA a little at a time, send it off to the gunsmith for full rebuild, or have it fixed under warranty and deal with it. I know that SA has lots of fans but this has been my experience. I have Colt's on the low end myself and for the good stuff I have custom 1911's made by Les Baer, Ed Brown, Ted Yost, Nighthawk Custom, etc. For a all barstock production 1911, Dan Wesson is the ticket. Just my $.02. Actually check here for mim: www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=1125251
Nothing at all wrong with Series 80. One more safety feature on the gun. My Sig works great, never had it fail. Half cock is NOT a reliable safety. Anybody who knows will tell you not to use it. The added parts do not add enough resistance to even notice. I did a trigger job, polished the "80" parts also. Got a 2 1/2 lb trigger.
Great job explaining the differences. Just FYI, at least newer kimbers, use a series 80 plunger without being dependant on trigger motion to operate the plunger. Instead, it uses the grip safety depression to move the plunger.
I have a link in the description explaining that system
I guess that's better but even more pointless.
The grip safety spring resistance is the same direction as the firing pin spring, the trigger is opposite direction so inertia direction from dropping in a manner that could move the firing pin actually prevents the trigger from moving
Excellent point@@stripedassape8148
Schwarz Safety.
Thank you so much! I bought a Bar Sto 1911 Colt series 80 Government model last year and because it has a built in muzzle brake I have no clue how to disassemble to clean. I asked the FFL where I bought it and he has no clue either. So finally I reached out to the manufacturer and he gave me a brief instruction on disassembly. After tear down, I shockingly realized the firing pin stop plunger is missing!!! I thought during the tear down it flew away!!! So I started to search everywhere on my desk, carpet, floor, under the sofa, and couldn't find the damn thing. I thought to myself, I just screwed up a high end gun! So I rushed to eBay and located a set of the plunger and spring and ordered. When I further disassembled the whole gun, I found out the plunger lever is also missing and the trigger bar lever is trimmed on the short arm so it's just like a spacer without any function. I got really curious and searched UA-cam and came across your video! Thank goodness for your. detailed explanation with video and graphics. Now I know these parts were removed intentionally and I have advanced in my little knowledge of the 1911.
they sell shim kits as well to remove the system on the side so the sear and disconnect don't slide around, you should really consider making your own 80% or 100% frame build, might teach way more then you ever thought possible..! 1911/2011 is not like building any other gun! it's intricate and every part is fitted and worked to match each other! parts are over priced though manufactures act as if they already did the work!!
Last night, I took my Colt Series 80 completely apart for a FULL cleaning for the first time in about 5 years. The amount of dirt, lint, grease, and gack that was on the internal parts (including these four "evil" parts) was amazing. I had to boil the frame and most of the internal parts to soften up the gack enough to get them to come clean.
Yet, all that mess didn't effect the reliability of the pistol. I guess you were right when you said (0:30) it is a gun that continues to operate when dirty.
*I made a follow up to this about 1911s and show the different between some*
ua-cam.com/video/r6e11Uvy0Xs/v-deo.html
Think Like A Cop - The Rest Of The Story
Think Like A Cop - The Rest Of The Storybwd
Experience trumps theory every time.
I owned a Colt National Match Series 70 and now I carry a Sig Fastback Nightmare. The Sig trigger is equal to (maybe superior to) the National Match - four pounds, but so crisp it feels like two and a half.
So while I appreciate his argument that it has extra parts, I've honestly never noticed and couldn't care less.
My gunsmith was an armorer in the army with the 101st Airborne, amongst other duties of his. While he was in the army in the 1960s, he did extensive tests on the 1911 and this supposed propensity to go off when dropped. As it turns out, you can get the firearm to go off if you drop it off of a building from 68 ft, and it falls muzzle first, on concrete, not grass, not Blacktop. On concrete. So if you're carrying a 1911, and you fall 68 ft off of a building. Like from the 7th floor. And you land on concrete, you're going to want your firearm to go off and put you out of your misery just in case you might survive such a thing. Because you're not going to survive very long and you're going to be in a great deal of discomfort.
for those that want a 70's series Get the Ruger Sr1911 works great I love it 1,000 rounds no fails so far
Just did a complete disassembly on my SR1911, LOOKING so pretty
have one myself. gifted myself on my 43rd Bday
What's wrong with the Colt Series 70?
I know some companies made their firing pins smaller/lighter and added a larger stronger firing pin spring instead of going the series 80 route in order to pass the drop tests. I think the primers started igniting from drops at around 3 feet on the standard series 70s, which is about waist height for most people. So conversely, if you want to make a series 70 safer from an accidental discharge due to a drop(which should never happen in the first place) without sacrificing the functionality of your trigger, just throw in a titanium firing pin and a stronger spring.
How can it pass the test if it lands directly on the hammer?
@@mach5zx10r It wasn't a hammer drop test. It's from firing pin "bounce" or inertia. Muzzle strike, firing pin moves forward strikes the primer and detonates a round. "Accidental discharge"
I was overjoyed to see this presentation. I fell in love with the 1911 back in 1965 as a Navy recruit and have since built several of my own out parts from all over and ran into my first series 80 about 5 years ago and wondered why on earth someone would add a 6th safety to the safest handgun on the planet. Without consulting any gun manufacturing ego maniacs, after a failure to fire, I took it upon myself (I'm a retired machinist) to cut my own shim and throw away those extra parts, fearing I had broken some law. I feel vindicated and happy as a clam that my actions are backed up by gun experts. The series 80 should be called the PC80, because that's all it is.
I'd been a gunsmith's apprentice for 3 years before I came across a series 80. My first reaction was "what the fuck is this?" When I disassembled it and some weird plates came falling out of it
I've been enlightened by your explanation here. I'm a revolver guy, but my son bought a 1911 series 70. Thank you for your efforts!
I know a vietnam MP that threw his holster into his jeep from the driver side over to the passenger seat and the gun went off. I imagine its extremely rare and take the perfect throw and a tender primer but it could happen and I don't see any downside of the series 80 so I actually prefer the firing pin safety but I seem to be alone in that thought.
There is never a time that I want my pistol to fire without me pressing the trigger and i never have gotten a malfunction from the firing pin safety therefor I'm all for it. Everyone to their own though.
Yeah, again follow safety rules- like not throwing loaded firearms anywhere and you don't have that problem. FOLLOW SAFETY rules its really not hard. And yes Im a vet who has served outside wire also and I can tell there is no firearm that when not handled in a safe that wont have negligent discharges. Don't see any downside? He just spent several minutes showing you the downsides. Extra parts top break, go wrong, and complicate action are never a good idea. Unless your a lawyer as he said. BTW id the gun was in the holster it was not the lack of drop safety that caused the gun you mentioned to discharge because in Vietnam era holster the end of the barrel was covered. Drop discharges occur when the gun hits just right at just the right impact strength on the end of the barrel. Likely the thumb safety wasn't on, and some GI's even put a band on the grip safety to ensure there was no issue with not firing due to poor grip.
@@highlandspiper8838 The guy this happened to was GunBlue490 on youtube. If you know him you would know he doesn't lie and that's why I believe it. Maybe it wasn't in his holster idk. As for more parts to wear out that's total nonsense. All parts wear eventually that's why you do PMCS and replace them when needed. I'd rather spend the occasional small amount for a few parts than someday drop a gun because I'm in a situation where my hands are bloody and the gun goes off who knows maybe expelling my last round, or worse.
You can say "FOLLOW SAFETY RULES" but the fact is in certain situations shit happens no matter how safe you are. You can't tell the bad guy "hey wait up I gotta wipe my buddies blood off my hands"
I've been carrying either a Colt Commander or Officer since 1996, both are series 80, as long as you properly maintain the pistol you won't have any problems with it. Both of them are the most reliable pistols I've had in my gun safe. Every pistol I've encountered that is having problems, the majority of them are not being cleaned properly.
+Dale Crummie Couldn't agree with you more. I own multiple 1911s both 70 & 80 series. Friction from extra parts is extremely negligible. I'd suggest anyone who'd like to verify that for themselves get a good trigger pull gauge to get a reading with and without the 80 series parts - I've done it, and as I said - negligable to non-existent. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but these opinions unfortunately are too often backed up with zero factual evidence. Even my father has a 1911 he purchased in the early 80s with close to 40K rounds through it. It has one of the finest triggers I've ever pulled, and yep, it's an 80 series. It has experienced exactly zero malfunctions due to the 80 series parts. Of all the people I've ever heard put forth this argument, not one of them has ever actually seen a failure of that kind either. Scour the internet and you'll find exactly zero instances of a failure due to 80 series parts.Don't get me wrong, I love 70 series - easier to reassemble for sure, but outside of that they don't function any better or worse than an 80 series, nor are they any more or less reliable. Want a GREAT 70 series style 1911 at an extremely reasonable price? Ruger's SR1911s are probably the most bang for the buck right now - completely set up (lowered & flared port, extended thumb safety, beavertail, skeletonized trigger/hammer, novak sights, etc) for about $300 less than a comparable Colt, and far less than Wilson Combat, Ed Brown, etc...
+icoach73 or for 329.00 on sale you can get a citadel with all those features also,and it's 70s trigger also.
mike 007 Yeah, go grab the cheapest pos you can find.
Yea,that why they are the most selling 1911 on the planet,somebody likes em..and I was on a tight budget and that's alI i could afford at the time,wasn't even going to buy a pistol right now but couldn't pass up the deal...and they had them on guns and gallery awhile back and loved them...just cause its cheap dosent make it junk,not in this case anyway...but each his own.
They are 499.00 at buds guns now,so I got a heck of a deal.and they are far from junk,no matter what you say.
Extra parts + useless lawyer mods + not from John Browning's brain = no thanks.
At least we have a choice as 1911 shooters. Most other modern designs have the same exact firing pin safety just like the series 80.
actually,very few modern 1911 makers use series 80 style triggers,for a reason,more crap to go wrong,
Hell yea
Kimber series 80s are different than the Colt series 80s. The Colt is activated by the trigger which cause a chain reaction on other parts to deactivate the firing pin block, therefore, it affects the trigger pull. Kimbers are different, the firing pin is deactivated by grip safety, the trigger bar function just like a 70 series, so by the time you squeeze the trgger, it will feel just like a 70 but with the benefits of an 80 series. I have both an older series 70 Kimber and the new series 80 Kimber, both feels the same as long as the pull weights are the same.
Dial 1911 kimber apparently uses schwartz system
Gary Hempel yea I thought I said that in the video or in the description, the schwartz system has four parts also. But you have to take the rear sight off to get to the top slide pieces.. Colt refused to use the schwartz system stating the reason was it was NOT reliable, Kimber choose to use it.
www.mouseguns.com/kimrev/swartz.jpg
Think Like A Cop - The Rest Of The Story
This is exactly why bought my Rock Island Armory FS Tactical. A good series 70 for less than a Kimber. I was looking into a Kimber before I made my purchase and I’m glad I took the time to research the differences between manufacturers before I pulled the trigger on a Kimber so to speak
Got the point the FIRST time you said it. The other 12 times were unecessary.
Hes pissed
Guy at the gunshow got him all worked up
Some times you just need to vent.
Other times people just need the information drilled into them 15 or so times.
Even less times, people get the information first try.
Yes you right all day on this, my 1911 is a 70 series steel colt commander. Have had it for decades and it still works fine. Well done and explained. Thank you.
Thanks for sharing
Thanks for the video, I knew the Series 80 had this extra firing pin block but never understood exactly how it worked or what to look for. I have a cheap Chinese Norinco 1911 (M1911A1 .45) and thankfully it is a series 70!
Thanks for the explanation. Dad was a 1911 fanatic. He traded 1911's and would tweak them to "get them right" then sell it to get another. When I was a teen in the 70's I shot the farm truck Ruger Speed-6 357 with very hot 38 SPL cases as my pistol. Dad would always make me try out his latest "fixed" 1911. Since I was young and tender I didn't like 45 and hard hitting calibers. Dad made sure I could strip and reassemble various models of 1911s. He always told me I should get a Colt as that was the standard. Dad's carry piece was a late 70's Colt Commander in 9mm.
Six years ago I got a Colt Government model in 9mm. It has been my range gun for the past 6 years. My guesstimate is that it has 19k to 21k rounds through it. Up until about two months ago it has been a good running gun but became a jam-o-matic. I had only field stripped it for cleaning. I figured a full strip and re-spring was in order. Once I stripped it I realized I had extra parts. You put things back into perspective. I have just finished putting it back together for the the third time but correctly this time.
Thank you.
Good video, thank you. Learned something new, and now I know what series 1911 I want to build... 70.
I just bought a BUL Armory Government 1911, and after watching your video, I went and checked it out, it's a 70. I'm happy about that.
If a series 70 1911 were to be dropped, and it DID discharge (unlikely, I think), it would be unlikely to cause any injuries. That's because it would have to hit muzzle down, and would fire into the ground, concrete, etc.
+Clyde Wary good point..
+Think Like A Cop - The Rest Of The Story
Thank you for an interesting video. I'm new to 1911s and just bought a Ruger SR1911 and was not aware of this difference.
I wonder if your gun show gunsmith had worked with only series 80 1911s which had already had the four parts removed and replaced with the SINGLE spacer. That could have lead him to conclude that there was only one additional part in a series 80 Vs a series 70. That would not an accurate, informed or experienced conclusion but would at least account for his statement.
And it would then go full semi auto and empty the glockazine into innocent bystanders in the next county over.
@JKay11235 There's a "half-cock" notch in the hammer to stop it from reaching the firing pin if the full cock notch breaks.
Your really excited about this, damn! Anyway... I just bought a Kimber Custom II. It is a series 70, uses all series 70 parts but it does have a firing pin safety. It's just a different design, much simpler. The new firing pin safety is acted upon with the grip safety and not the trigger.
its called swartz, I explain in the description and links to my website with pictures.
@@HeyGunPeople Thanks, I didn't know what that system was called, just started doing research on the 1911, as I just bought it. Got it from someone that didn't like the 1911 as much as they thought they did, lol. Seems like a better system but like everything, it will probably cause an issue at some point. The FPS systems never bothered me as I grew up in the age of polymer strikers and they all have an FPS system. I'm a Fabricator and Machinist, the MIM parts don't bother me either, technology has come a long way and MIM can be just as good as machined and forged parts (in most areas), regardless of fealings about it, a quality MIM part is quality, even toolsteel and forged parts can break. I feel Kimber has made good strides in redeeming themselves from the past with cheap outsourced parts. The only thing I can't forgive is the plastic main spring housing. That was replaced first thing. Hell... A MIM'd part would be welcomed. Either way, got it at a good price, it's a range toy for me. I'd totally carry a 1911 if people weren't so scared and open carry was more socially acceptable, for CC I'll stick to my Walther P99 or Glock 19. I think for my first 1911 the Kimber is nice. I had the AR 15 flu for awhile now it seems the 1911 bug has stricken me and I'll be buying more ... Definitely doing and 80% kit 1911, actually will probably do that next. Sorry for the rant. Take care.
Kimbers that have “II” in the name has a safety like the series 80.
For Example
Kimber’s Custom TLE II is a series 80
Kimber’s Eclipse Custom is a series 70.
I'm looking at my kimber right now and it is a series 80 but the pin is disengaged with the grip safety not the trigger. So it doesnt affect trigger pull weight
Yeah my eclipse pro target 2 is not trigger based it’s grip safety based. So no affect to the trigger at all.
Well now I've decided on that Springfield instead of the Kimber. Honestly it saves me enough to get a billet stainless one-piece magwell/mainspring housing and 2 10rd Wilson Combat mags.
I own both series 70 and 80. I can't tell the difference in trigger pull.
me either, I prefer my 80 slightly based on the sights and grips
If its a Colt Series 80 Vs. Nighthawk series 70, the difference is noticeable. I also have polished a complete series 80 to fell exactly like a series 70. It's all in what you want and the work. As far as I am concerned the 1911 trigger is so great, even the worst made 1911 triggers feel good!!
I'll agree with you there warrior I have 4 total my least favorite being a kimber has the best trigger but is the least reliable
Maybe one day in the next hundred years, someone will come around and make all these 1911 guys a perfect 1911, then they will finally be happy.
John Browning didn't put it in there ....... must not be necessary ! ............. my Les is a 70
You are right. More moving parts equals more points of failure. More wear and tear. More places to lubricate. Oil attracts dirt. More oil mens more dirt. And even if it was one more part, it's still one more part of failure. That gunsmith might have worked on 1911 his whole life but if he can't count to four, I doubt he graduated high school.
“Functionability”. I love it.
The Tisas 1911 is correct and affordable.
Kimbers do not have a swarts safety people! it has the same trigger controls as the "70" - The grip safety depresses the firing pin stop NOT THE TRIGGER !!
in correct not the same, I explain in links in the description
Good Luck America she’s correct the kimber series 2 has a disconnector and a sear that’s exactly the same configuration as the ‘70’ . The only difference and has absolutely nothing to do with the trigger is that the grip safety pushes the rod to depress the firing pin block plunger . Other than that the trigger function is exactly the same as the ‘70’ series . You make no mention of this on your video , I agree 80 series pistols are not my cup of tea either. God bless!
Thank you. I just bought a Ruger SR1911 TALO Series 70 so I wanted to know difference. This vid is a very thorough explanation. I liked & sub'ed.👍
olysean92 - You will Love your Ruger.
I believe this was a result of people carrying.. with one in the pipe and letting the hammer down on a live round . I made that mistake when I was a young man and I dropped the pistol in my bedroom and barely avoided a injury.... I actually stopped carrying the 1911 because when people saw it on my hip with a hammer cocked back they would lose their minds.... I have actually had people calling law enforcement. One time a guy threatened to beat me up because I was threatening everybody in the whole place with the hammer back. It got to the point where because of public perception I had to carry something... It's my observation series 80 is the idea that you can carry it with the hammer down and one in the pipe
This isn't only for drop resistance. If you carry in condition 2, with a round in the chamber but the hammer DOWN, then you really should have a series 80. Without it, you can accidentally discharge if you slip off the hammer when cocking it back, without fully engaging it into the pawl.
Seems to me the thumb safety should have been made to block the hammer like a 92fs. From what I understand even the US military did not leave one in the chamber with 1911s, am I wrong? If so imo 1911s are only good for home defense, not cocked and locked EDC. Yes I would never leave one in the chamber at home with any firearm, too dangerous and you have more time at home btwn alarms and dogs.
I like DA/SA Beretta 92fs’ and PX4 Compacts for EDC.
Call me old fashioned but striker fires are the pistol equivalent of an electric car.
That plunger looks exactly like the plunger on our GLOCKS. furthermore Rick i would never buy a series 80 for the same reasons you mentioned. I know this video has been made public years ago. I am ashamed to say I played hooky that day and never watched the video. So glad i am brushing up on my schooling this evening. Thank You Rick..
BIG RON OVER AND OUT......
i carried my Colt Gold Cup National Match series 80 for 20yrs as a LAPD Gang Unit Ofc.plenty of situations when i needed my trusty colt and it NEVER FAILED me once. But i do value your opinion brother! great video and very subjective!!
I was told that Ruger includes a titanium firing pin and stronger spring on their 1911s so it you do drop the Series 70 on it's muzzle, the inertia is less on the titanium firing pin and it will not strike the primer on the bullet because of its light weight and heavier spring. I don't know if this is BS or fact, but if anybody knows for sure, please chime in. Great video...thanks!
I really get a kick when I see videos where folks bemoan the series 80 over the 70.... yet like Glocks and similar striker guns.... THAT USE A SIMILAR SYSTEM!!!!
That being said, I own and train with both, still have either to fail.
I did the mods here years ago for S&G's and to test the trigger gauge.... ZERO difference on the average pull on 20 pulls (after it was broken in).
Seriously, no reason to mess around with an 80 if that's what you have. I just got done doing some training with mine over a weekend of 22 boxes of ammo (yep, 1,100 rounds). Cheap ammo, nothing special (Blazer) and yep.... not a single failure either.
Whatever ya have, just enjoy it, shoot it and if you carry it - TRAIN with it.
I was thinking of buying a Springfield 1911, now that I know that it's not a series 80 I'm going to buy it for sure. good video very informative, thank you.
Glad to help
Thanks for doing a good job of explaining the difference. I still love my Kimber, but I can see why one would rather have a series 70 over an 80.
All personal preference, use your own mind. Don’t always rely on what someone else says but yes they are in needed extra parts though 99% of 1911 owners wouldn’t notice any difference between series 70 and 80.
My Colt Mark IV Series 70 was purchased in the mid 70s and in about 1987 reknowned pistol smith Bill Wilson offered a package deal on customizing 1911s. The package deal was to replace the conventional hammer, trigger, barrel and other related parts with match parts. A beaver tail grip safety was installed as well. In addition, I had the slide milled and Bomar adjustable rear sights installed, and the entire pistol was hard chromed. This handgun is an excellent shooter. I later had some custom leather including a holster, belt, and two double magazine holders bought from Sam Andrews of Andrews Custom Leather.
That gun smith must have misunderstood u and he was saying it’s just one part
To change the 80 to 70, the spacer.
70 to 80 you need the 4 parts.
Plus machining
You need a series 80 firing pin too. Plus, the series 70 slide needs to be drilled and the frame needs to be milled.
I have a Colt Series 70 that I bought decades ago. I sent the basic gun to Bill Wilson in 1988 who had a package deal at the time to replace all of the stock parts with match grade barrel, trigger, hammer, ambidextrous safety and beaver tail grip safety. He milled the slide and installed Bomar sights. The gun was then fully hard chromed. It is a nice shooter
sounds nice...
I appreciate your video and you taking the time to explain the difference and function, however, was it necessary to make a 5 minute video three times as long just so you can say the same thing over and over and over and over again?
AMEN!!
To be fair the general public is pretty stupid, most people probably need things said 3 different ways for them to actually understand it..
That said, this guy at the gun show really got under his skin with his only 1 extra moving part rhetoric, lol
This video brought to you by the 1911 trigger Nazi's club. lol
lol... i would love to see the actual difference in trigger pull between th 70 and the 80... not enough to make a difference... SO MUCH FRICTION... lol. and the dirt and grime!! and the parts breaking seems to be a common issue!! lol... I just love firearm snobs that think they know everything!!
Yeah and calm to fluck down
I believe the kimbers (maybe only some of them) use a firing pin safety that is deactivated by the grip safety and not the trigger. Also known as Schwartz safety.
Isn’t he saying there is no need for a firing pin safety? I’m pretty sure that a firing pin safety that’s deactivated by the grip safety would incorporate other parts that are again unnecessary. Correct me if I’m wrong, just a thought though.
Thanks! This helps greatly to see the difference between 70 and 80!
I have owned many Series 80's and I convert em to 70's easily. The bottom piece if the Series 80 junk is called the birds head. You can either grind it down so it is just a round washer or replace it with the proper thickness washer, install it in place of the bird's head and you have a facsimilie of a Series 70--throw all the other parts away--it costs nothing to do this. It is effectively a Series 70, feels and shoots the same.
I have heard of series 80 causing the gun to malfunction when the small lever breaks or pieces of brass jam the plunger from getting dirty, I chose the Springfield Armory M1911A1 because it is made the original way and takes standard parts, but the later Springfields use a different sized firing pin made of titanium to pass drop safety tests.
If you use the right firing pin spring drop safety wont be a issue. A lighter Actual pin and a heavier spring can be put in if your truly worried about it to negate any issues.
I have a beautiful Series 80 and no one can tell the difference in it and a 70s. Sure, there are lots of crappy Colts out there, as anyone knew back when they were made, but the 80s are safer to carry.
I witnessed an A1 with a stock firing pin, Wollfe HD firing pin spring, Golden Sabre 185 +P, dropped 33 inches onto the muzzle and DISCHARGE. I think the Schwartz Safety is a good thing.
I call bullshit
Citation video proof please
"You can convert it with one small cost effective part"
"BUT I HATE THEM"
really good at explaining stuff, learned alot. thanks for posting!
My delicate sensibilities are offended by your honesty! I need a hug! All joking aside, politicians are appeasing people that have been pampered from birth. The same people that decry all firearms are oblivious to this fact: they are safe because men with guns protect them.
Ruger SR1911s are series 70 based as well. Very reliable and well made firearm for the money. Smith and Wesson E series are series 70 based too. Fact is less complicated means more reliable period!
Great info. Been an owner and fan of 1911’s for decades, so my lovely wife decided I needed a “ new” one and ,,, yep she got me a series 80, so where can I find a spacer???
brownells
Thanks,,, found 1 right after I posted that…👍
All or most modern semi autos use this design "drop safe"
I am new to 1911, bought a RIA GI, and now I am hooked on 1911. I like the video very much.. Thanks dude.
I just checked and my Rock Island Armory is a 70
I got a series 70 and I just tried hitting it hard with my hand and the hammer didn't drop. No need for that other safety. 1911 already has many safety's. NO need for 4.
It's not about hammer drop. I don't think that was ever an issue.
The point of the video is that series 80s added 5 parts to their firing cycle to stop the firing pin from moving forward.
For some reason people have claimed that should you drop a 1911, barrel facing downward, that the firing pin(despite the strong ass spring there that keeps it away from the primer) would travel forward enough to cause the gun to fire.
Despite the gun cycling more violently than most people can drop there gun.
It's a solution to a manufactured problem
I got a Tisas Model 1911a1 service series 70. Great gun for how cheap it was. Only $380
Ruger SR 1911, series 70 design that’s accurate, reliable, great looking, has a good trigger and won’t break the bank.
Yeah, no it won't. But it would totally rob one...
I get understand and respect the people who own the series 70 . I have a Para p12 that is an 80 . Im honestly unsure if it adds any more protection to the whole safety aspect but enjoy knowing its there .
I will do a 70 one day.
i have a kimber that is a series 70. the series 80 kimbers have the "II" on the name, if it does not have that then it is a series 70. which the kimber super carry is.
I have a Kimber Warrior SOC; in which I purchased on Halloween last year, and it doesn't have a firing pin block. Hasn't "FAILED" me yet.
Thank you for this great presentation on this as I wasn’t 100% sure how many added pieces there were.
Any difference in trigger pull is negligible and you won't notice it under combat anyway.
You nailed it brother 👍🏼
Is there a way to determine the year my Series 70 Colt Combat Commander was manufactured by looking at the serial number or some other type of identification numbers?
I've pulled the triggers on both in blind "taste tests". It isn't until a few things happen that the average 1911 user would notice the difference. 1. You know your ass from your elbow. 2. You know what a crisp break with no creep feels like, which most average 1911 people who have a 1911 but it's just one of many guns in there collection and could care less don't look for a glass breaking trigger. Series 80 is an average sloppy 1911 trigger, still o.k. for the average Joe. And yes early kimbers, which I lament letting go were series 70.
How many documented accidental discharges from 1911 drops have there been? If it's thousands, it's a problem; if it's every other visit of Halley's Comet, the additional guts seem an overreaction. If it's never, that's another reason to hang all lawyers.
I have a Colt Series 70, and one of the differences on my gun is the split, sprung barrel bushing and flared barrel muzzle. I bought it specifically for that feature, which locks the barrel more securely in the bushing on return to battery and improves accuracy, in the sense of repeatability (precision, really).
Barrel bushings have to be loose for the mechanism to work - test this by putting a dowel in the barrel end of your 1911 and moving it up and down when the gun is in battery. The barrel moves within the bushing because there has to be clearance (slop), in order for the slide to cycle. Custom gunsmiths tighten up that clearance when accurizing the gun. But the tighter the clearance, the greater the likelihood of binding - especially when dirty. That can stop the gun from going into full battery, causing a cycle failure.
The Series 70 I have has a bushing with sprung "fingers" that grip the flared barrel end tightly when in battery, and as the slide cycles rearward after firing, the fingers move off the flared (larger diameter area) near the muzzle and release the barrel so it can drop under the rotary motion of the barrel link. For me, that's the primary advantage of a Series 70.
The new Kimber KHX does NOT have a firing pin safety. I just picked up the Pro model and couldn't be happier. Kimber says its the only modern Kimber 1911 without the FPS.
I've never had an issue with my colt series 80. Just about every gun has a firing pin block and the triggers are fine. If you can't handle a pushy trigger or the "slap" of an ak trigger them basically you need to get over it and train. There is a point and purpose to keeping it and it really doesn't make a difference in reliability. You say it has all this pressure and rubbing and friction etc but you act like it's plastic. Relax the 1911 is still a workhorse
I really enjoyed the explanation. Just wanted to let you know I own a Kimber Classic Stainless manufactured sometime in the 90's early 2000's. It to my surprise is a series 70.
buckhunter002 much better guns imo.
Couldn't you defeat it by just removing the plunger and spring?
Yep, but the aditional parts are still in there and are creating friction against trigger pull
Kimber doesn't use a "Series 80" design. It uses a Swartz safety, which is activated by the grip safety, and has none of these pieces interfering with the trigger group.
did you read description?
Haven't had an issue. You're paranoid. Colt has it in my Combat Elite and I shoot a lot of rounds and I also use it as my carry. I am not the slightest bit worried.
+Jeremy Kieler LOL, people love to defend their weapon, I don't care if you buy 5 with it and love it, I put out the info for those that want to choose wisely not defend what they bought without knowing the different. It is NOT paranoid if it is true.
i own a Taylor and co 1911a1 compact in 45acp, is that a series 70 or 80? and also what is your personal opinion on that specific make and model?
Good explanation of the difference between Series 70 vs. Series 80.
When i was in Vietnam i remember draping my 1911 more then i can count (marihuana may be hyy i don't remember lol )and never had a round going off .
The Series 80 firing pin block / safety came about because it IS possible for a series 70 pistol (without the block), if dropped, muzzle down, from a high enough height, onto a hard enough surface, for the firing pin's inertia to overcome the force of the firing pin spring, and move far enough to fire a chambered cartridge. A lot of ifs, but it IS possible, so to get past some states' requirements and to pass "drop tests", the Series 80 system was designed. I don't like it either, it ruins the nice 1911 trigger pull. I don't drop loaded weapons muzzle down from a high level onto hardened steel or concrete floors, so it's not an issue for me. Further, a titanium firing pin and an "extra strength" firing pin spring will greatly lessen the above possibility.
Got a Colt traditional classic last month. Series 70! The local gun shop sold out of them in a few days.
This is so overblown. While I agree, the 80 "safety feature" was not needed, failure rates are low enough that it doesn't matter. I would never not buy a gun because of this.
my Remington R1 enhanced is a series 80, my Springfield armory 1911A1 loaded is a series 70... the R1 still has a better trigger..
The two Kimber pistols I have use the Swartz system. Not Colt 80.
If John Browning had included the system on his original design this video would be titled "Why series 70 1911's suck and will get you killed."
I own both, I really don't worry about the 80 failing.
The 1905 model didn't have any safeties on it at all. DoD was concerned about this so a couple of 1905s were modified with the grip safety (poorly at first) and after a recall and refit what you had was the 1907 model with a functional grip safety. The thumb safety wasn't introduced until 1910 at the behest of the U.S. Cavalry. This made the weapon safer to carry in psn 1 while on horseback. The 1911 is the finished product put into military service.
But he didn't.
I think it fair to say that transfer bars and rebounding firing pins were also not included in most guns.., and that guns like the 97 winchester shotgun could go off while lowering the hammer and there was no safe way to really carry most guns except on an empty chamber.. are you good with only carrying on an empty chamber?
Now I could be wrong, but doesn't John Browning's last pistol design, the Hi Power, have a firing pin safety?
@@Odin029 Yes, the high-power has a firing pin safety. That said, it's a very unusual design, and uses essentially a mini Rube Goldberg machine for the internals, ironically, because Browning had to avoid his own patents, which he had sold the Colt.
That said, for a modern Duty or personal defense Weapon, It's become pretty widely acknowledged they're carrying the gun that isn't drop safe is not the best idea. If you don't like the series 80, there's another option for the 1911, called the Schwartz firing pin safety which was invented by a Colt engineer in the 30s. It uses the grip safety to actuate instead of the trigger.
Dude, you really need to relax. I get it, that you don't like Series 80 1911 pistols. Actually, the terms "Series 70" and "Series 80", refers specifically to Colt. It's incorrect to associate it with any other brand. I do understand where you're coming from though. On their "II" series guns, Kimber uses a firing pin safety that is deactivated by depressing the grip safety, where as the Colt system shown here requires additional pressure on the trigger to operate it. Not all current production Kimbers feature an additional firing pin safety, so you essentially, still have a Series 70 "style" Kimber. Personally, the only issue that I have with my Kimbers with the firing pin safety is the fact that the rear sight that is notoriously tight, must be removed to service it should you have a problem. Most of my 1911s are Series 70 "style", but I don't have a problem with a nice Series 80 "style...sort of" either. While some of my best triggers are on the 70 "style" guns, some aren't any better than some of my 80 "style...sort of" triggers. I don't own any Series 80 Colts.
Enjoyed the video. Liked. Subscribed. I have four Colt 1911's, Commander 9 & 45, Government 9 & 45, all series 80. Now that I've been educated thanks to your simple explanations, could you make a video actually converting a series 80 to series 70, along with what parts/brands you would recommend?
It's not too hard. Field strip it. Move the safety to the halfway position, pop the pin and remove. Remove the pins holding the hammer assembly, remove the parts, put in the midified part, reassemble. For the top, remove the firing pin cover, take it out, drop the plunger and spring and throw them away, then reassemble completely.
OH NO! Say it isn’t so! I think this is the first time we’ve ever disagreed. Actually it’s not a total disagreement at all. I understand why some, like yourself don’t like the series 80. Years ago when I purchased my first Colt 1911. It’s a Combat Target Stainless Series 80 and I fell in love 😍 with this weapon the first time at the range. Shot marksmanship scores consistently from then on. I do clean and oil my 1911’s more thoroughly more often than most of my weapons just because of those things you mention. I should probably consider removing the trigger safety parts. Loved the animations in this video! Thanks again for another great video!
I'm sure the main reason for Series 80 guns is because gun company lawyers feel that "more safety" protects their companies from liability.
I'm completely fully educated in 1911 and everybody can say that blah blah blah blah and the theory behind the series 70 with the inertia ,the chances that happening are slim to none but why would you want to risk it .there's nothing wrong with the series 80 , it is a fact that is a superior gun it takes away the the accidental discharge inertia . can a series 70 guarantee 100% of inertia theory won't happen no it can't .can a series 80 guarantee that that won't happen yes a series 80 can . Those four extra parts that makes up the series 80 does nothing to the trigger pull whatsoever I bet you a million dollars if a person who's never even shot a gun and was never even explained to what a series 80 versus a series 70 and you just let him shoot a series 80 for like a year or two and then came out with a series 70 it wouldn't know the difference . Anybody who thinks the series 70 is more Superior is just trying to be argumentative . People acting like it's a damn bullet button or something . Do you really feel comfortable in carrying a series 70 1911 with the firing pin being held back by nothing but a spring that's pretty scary .I've shot series 80s many times matter of fact I feel like the trigger on an 80 is more crisp than a series 70 . I love both guns don't get me wrong but I'm for safety . My series 70 collection is for show only but if I'm going to carry it's going to be a series 80 because it's safe 100% .
Thank you, very much for educating me on this matter. I'm getting a Dan Wesson based on your advice. All those gun makers not making the 80 series should thank you as well.
If anyone is curious... the Kimber rapide (black ice) does not have fire pin safety.
Thank you so much... now I understand definitely the difference between Series 70 & 80. Your explanation first class. Sig Sauer and Kimber produce like series 80 - I ne\/er know it. Ty for this information. Coco Suri is from Germany - but I well understand all. You and your family ha\/e a pretty life all the time...... C S
+Coco Suri thanks glad it helps.. :) I have pictures of Kimber and Sig safeties on my site, they are not in video.
www.thinklikeahorse.org/All_About_Guns.html#6
So, if I understand correctly, you seem to prefer the series 70?
You kinda hint at it, but I want to be sure.
I wonder if he prefers the CZ 75 Pre B and hates the B model..
There’s a reason for everything, even if you don’t know it. Be careful with altering firearms. Great lawyers will pick your intensions apart, in self defense situations. Altering triggers will get you in big trouble. Just be wise enough to research before you purchase. Series 70, series 80, really doesn’t matter. Long as the stick goes boom when you need it. This seemed to be more about hate towards a couple manufacturers.
Great video. There are so many companies making production 1911's, it's hard to decide what you want, especially if you don't have the funds for a custom 1911 from one of the dozens of custom 1911 makers. I'm looking at several, this video helps me know what to look for more. thanks for this awesome video.
Very interesting to learn more of the inner workings of the 1911 pistol. But it's kinda heavy on the opinion though, not that I don't agree with you but getting told the same thing 20 times kind of insults my intelligence.
Improving the quality of the trigger definetly is a good enough reason to mod a series 80 or just go for a series 70.
I see a flaw in the modification of the series 80 though, the plunger hole does not get covered up so dirt is gonna get in there with your firing pin.
I've never heard problems with internal firing pin safeties in other type guns but more moving parts could in extreme cases indeed lead to malfunctions.
Other than that I have a physics-based reason for there not to be a firing pin safety in this type of pistol, the firing pin spring (which looks pretty beefy) should be more than sufficient to keep the firing pin away from the primer when dropped.
In conclusion: series 70 1911's give you reliability, low drag & godspeed
~~Peace~~
Not sure why the guys are ranting about you repeating yourself so often. What do you do when you study for an exam and need the work to stick in your head???????????? You revise your work, good explanation buddy, keep it up. Oh and by the way I carry a Thompson .45 series 70 and I'm loving it
Any gunsmith worth his salt can do a trigger job on a 80 series & you wouldn't be able to tell the difference. Only the "Internet Experts" know otherwise!
until you have a failure due to the firing pin block spring and block like i did yesterday on my pt1911....
POSSUM3K3 but isn't a pt1911 made by Taurus? They're shitty guns regardless.
vlodpg I’ve owned both and there is a considerable difference in the two. Series 80 is very “spongy” feeling.
@@sarahwatson7692 If you do a trigger job and de-burr everything, you will not experience that.
@@Lehmann108 I have one Colt series 80 in my collection. And keep it because it belonged to a fellow Veteran. I did a trigger job and deburred all the parts. The trigger is as crisp as one of my STI 2011 the take up is even less. Bottom line. Believe it or not it is a real tac driver to my surprise. One and a half inch groups at 15 yards.
I have an early Kimber Classic Custom from many years ago as well. It is the 70 series. I have loved the 1911 platform ever since I was the small arms PO in the Navy. I don't mind the 80 series 1911, but I've sold all of those. Yeah, I regret it...
The guys at the gun show was talking about swartz type FPBs. They are not series 80. In reality, the reliability issue is all gun community nonsense as is the trigger pull.
I cover that on my site with pics, had you read the description the link is there.
The reason Glock uses this is because the Glock striker freefloats. 1911’s have a spring that always biases the striker to the rear. Not that the 1911 can’t have an ND… but less likely.