I just sanded my floors. It was a walnut engineered floor. Very dark finish that took a lot of damage from previous owners. Fortunate to have enough to sand it and now colored light and looks great. It was the cheapest option compared to replacing or tiling.
I was particularly shopping for thicker flooring because it definitely feels better and easy while walking over it. I loved luxury vinyl but most flooring felt like cement hard although there were installed on baseboards. That’s one reason I decided to go with thicker. But lately the thicker eng hardwood is costing more expensive than real, so I ended going with real. My first floor is real wood and all the he tested happened like hundreds of times. Believe it or not dents on real wood are very visible immediately but most are gone or back to normal with time. Even with little wear the real wood looks so beautiful and easy on both eyes and legs. If you can afford I would suggest sticking to it. 99% people go by looks but the feel that comes with a thicker floor wouldn’t come with very thin floor, the drop test are proof, your body takes back most impact of your every touch.
You ask when is the last time I sanded a floor. A while ago, but I did sand and poly my first apartment floor, did a light sand and poly on my second apartment. But when's the last time I dropped a knife, fork or dumbell on my floor? Never. The other reason for thick engineered or solid wood flooring is resale value. People will pay a premium for "the good stuff" even if it isn't really any better.
I think it also depends on the type of wood under the wear layer of the plywood (engineered) that will show how much damage will happen. Not on the sharp objects but on the blunt objects. I did buy cheap engineered hard wood for 3 bedrooms and on the first bedroom found that just rolling my heavy bed across the floor left indents that showed right away. Now I am an adult and figured out that if I take off the rollers and put on a 4x4 and felt pads the damage didn't happen. And I love the look and easy care of these floors. But just be alert to blunt force damage on really cheap flooring. I have not damaged any of the floors since than and love the way they look. But I will also say even the salesman at the store couldn't believe the damage and said it shouldn't happen, but it did.
Thank you for sharing your experience.. I completely agree, the quality of the lumber used under the wear layer does affect the durability. A softer core, especially on products with a thinner wear layer will cause it to dent more easily. This is something consumers cannot see visually. I always say you get what you pay for. If you find a product that looks identical to what you were looking at originally for a fraction of the price, there is a reason. Unfortunately a lot of times you will not find out what that reason is until the flooring has been installed.
Thank you for the video. One additional point on why customers may need a thicker floor is to be able to replace it later on with marble floor which requires 1 inch. So the think it would be great if the engineered wood plus the underlayment take up the space of around 1 inch or maybe a little less than that. Of course the underlayment can be the thicker part instead of getting thicker wood planks
Thin floors will get you by, thick floors will give you options. Water damage is common, the thin floor will never be the same or screwed, the thick floors can be resanded.
To be scientifically sound you would need to repeat this test a number of times on each sample to account for differences in manner of dropping (unless you standardize that which even then you would need to repeat). Any experiment needs to be reproducible and you need to take the average of the results. Also, what finish did these floors have? Oil, urethane, aluminum oxide? Were they comparable finishes (some nice things to see). That said I suspect the thicker wood layer would continue to perform poorly in the case of denting, it is less dense of course than manufactured wood, however that is one aspect of evaluating wear layer thickness (resilience to impact). Scratching, wear and tear and remediation of the wood are also important topics. A 2mm wear layer leaves little room for repair. Interesting video nonetheless demonstrating one aspect of wear layer thickness. Would love to see one that's a bit more standardized
Interesting video. I think you should have addressed 1.2mm wear layers that big box stores sell. I am replacing my 1.2mm lumber liquidator floors after 5 years. Dropping knives and heavy objects are one thing, but much more minimal wearing from everyday kind of use (dog's nails, furniture legs, etc.) is probably more applicable.
I think that would be a great subject for a different video. I chose not to add it to this video because I don't recommend anything less than a 2mm wear layer unless budget is the only concern and you are not looking for longevity. There is a point at which you sacrifice quality by going too thin. As far as dog nails, and furniture legs that would have more to do with the finish rather than the wear layer.
They say you can't teach an old dog new tricks. I must be an old dog, cause for me thicker is better. When I change a floor I expect it to last over fifty years. I'm not convinced any engineered hardwood floor is up to that task let alone one with a 1mm or 2mm wear layer. People don't sand floors regularly but in time all wooden floors are sanded. My house is fifty six years old and it's been sanded twice. The previous owner said he did them in 1976 and 2010. Floors look excellent. My parents home is ninety five years old and the floors were sanded in 1984 and again in 2015. Floors are in great shape. If they can manufacture engineered wood floors to be that tough I would buy it. I want to believe it true, but I have serious doubts.
Thanks for the comment.The purpose of the video is not to convince people to buy floors that have a thinner wear layer. It just points out the fact that for many consumers it shouldn't be the deciding factor. As for your last comment on engineered floors that are as tough as solid. If you get an engineered floor that has a 4mm top or higher you have a floor that is better then a solid floor. Not only can it be sanded down as many times as a solid floor can, it is more dimensionally stable and you have more installations options available. But at the end of the day "to each his own". We offer all options and it's not my job to convince someone as to what they should purchase. We just present the facts and you make the decision that suits you best.
Best comment so far 👍. In my experience cheap engineered floor gets replaced all the time, but how often is real wood pulled up and replaced? Perhaps the result of throwaway culture thinking in 10-yr horizons and not what their kids/grandkids will inherit and be proud of. With that said, I agree with the response that a good, thick engineered floor can hold up very well over time and has all the benefits of the modern tech without the drawbacks of a thin, cost-cutting top layer
What is your thought regarding the type of wood used in the plies of an engineered hardwood? If cheap wood is used as plies it will dent much easier especially with anything less than a 2 mil correct?..As well as not hold up to moisture and expansion & contraction as well ? It seems lots of people talk about cores of vinyl planks,, but not hardwood. Also, that 2nd one looks like it has cross plies with some sort of compressed core, and the 3rd one doesn't look like it has plies at all?
great video. you focused a lot on the top layer but what about the mid portion of the core. I see Opus makes products with a solid code with channels and En Bois makes products with multiple layers of plywood. What is better? Why?
There is no noticeable difference in performance between the two types of cores if installed and maintained properly. The multi-ply core was specifically designed to provide strength and stability (Less expansion/contraction). More layers equals more strength and stability. With that said I have never seen any issues with a solid core being used.
@@CoronaHardwood Great info. Thank you again. Just spoke with the Opus rep and he said they use solid core because it feels better when walked on and squeaks less but that traditionally people believe multiply may withstand water moisture exposure better. He said what you just said in that they have had no issues with the solid core.
Ok this was good information and relieves my concern about thickness. I do however have a concern about off gassing though and formaldehyde in the glue as well as toxicity in the finish. Also my home builder is using Anderson tuftex engineered wood in half inch HWMPN majestic pecan 17040 chestnut and I can’t tell what is the wear layer thickness. I can’t tell by looking at it cause it’s so thin, so I would assume it’s .6mm so how does .6mm compare to 2mm?
As far as off gassing, I would not be concerned with any products that are sold in California since we have the strictest regulations when it comes to that (CARB II Compliance). Anderson is an excellent brand, they invented engineered hardwood decades ago and are known for their quality. We did not do any testing on anything less than 2mm, so I cannot tell you exactly how it would perform, but the primary focus should be on the type of finish it has. As mentioned before Anderson is known for quality and we have not had any complaints or issues with their products in the almost 2 decades we have been selling it. So you should be good with any of the products they offer. Primarily just need to focus on color/style.
Makes sense that the thicker wear layer will dent more easily because it has more real wood on top of the core, where the others will get more support from the core because of less real wood. Like others have said dropping things is going to be a lot less common they how well they would stand up to everyday use. In this case, I would say there would be no difference for all three.
He’s basically saying buy engineered wood with thin layer of veneer. The advantages to businesses: Thin layer of veneer is cheaper. When people start seeing scratches/gouges they can replace the whole floor, businesses can sell more. Toss the old flooring in landfill. Refinishing wood flooring will make it look like brand new, it takes like 2days, I have done this in my home built in 1960. Businesses would love consumers to buy something that can’t be fixed, more business for them.
1. Density of wear layer is important, suspect 6mm was less dense than the other two. 2. You need to conduct this test multiple times before drawing any conclusions. 3 this is an impact test what about long term friction testing which would show that the 6mm had a longer life expectancy due to general wear. 4. You could sand and re varnish the 6mm down more times than the others again showing the 6mm to be the better option in terms of lifetime!
Thanks for the comment Alan. 1) We made sure to test products that were all of the same species/density of wood. 2) We conducted this test many times with many different species and manufacturers before we drew a conclusion. For the purpose of time we condensed this for the video. 3) A friction test would be a test of the finish on top of the wood, not the actual wear layer, since you are never actually wearing the wood. 4) The main point is most customers will never sand and refinish the floors, so it is not important to have a thicker wear layer. Conclusion: This is a test that can be very easily replicated by anyone at home with a handful of samples. You don't have to take our word for it. We were just as surprised by the findings as most people are.
@@CoronaHardwood what was the 6mm floor? Looks like a softer wood. ... For this to be across the board fair.... The same hardness of wood should be used with the same protective coating on each floor thickness... Seems like that would be a more fair assessment. Ok
@@Myeyeofthebeholder All 3 products were European White Oak with an aluminum oxide urethane finish. The beauty about this test is you can easily verify it at home with sample pieces from a flooring store and a depth gauge.
Yes, all 3 were the same type of hardwood. European white oak. We only showed 3 samples in the video but we tested many more prior to filming. The results were the same.
As a retired machinist of 38 years how do you use a outside vernier caliper to measure depth? You would need a depth guage to do that. The caliper in the video measures outside diameter only??
😀 Your the first person to comment on that. It's a 2-in-1 tool. The video only shows one side of the tool. The opposite side, not shown in the video, acts as a depth gauge. However since the measurement is shown at the top of the tool, this made more sense for the video. Hopefully that answers your question.
Great question David. We did not address any of that in this video because the wear layer has nothing to do with scratches and stains. When it comes to stains and scratches the focus needs to be on the finish. There are many different types of finishes on the market that will perform at different levels. You can have the hardest species of wood, with a cheap finish that will scratch easily. I will address this subject in a future video since it seems like many people have the same question.
It depends on the type of flooring (solid vs engineered) and how it is secured. I have seen people put vinyl plank on and engineered hardwood floor and not have any issues. I would not recommend this with a solid hardwood though due to how temperamental it is.
I don't like polyurethane finish. What are other types of finish on engineered hardwood? I was thinking of getting solid wood floors and using tung oil.
Primarily, the only other two options available would be either a Lacquer Finish, which is very similar to urethane, or an oil finish. Based on your comment seems like the oil finish would be what you are looking for. This is a great option if you are looking for a lifetime maintainable finish that is natural and free from toxic chemicals and makes it easy to touch up any scratches or scuff marks over the years. If you visit our website www.CoronaHardwood.com you can search specifically for oil finished floors. Keep in mind that maintaining these products with an approved cleaner and rejuvenator oil is a must.
I would focus on the warranty when choosing a finish. 25 years + means you shouldn't have any issues. Anything less then that I would be concerned about. Most finishes on the market are very similar (Urethane with Aluminum Oxide) and will be very durable. There are some finishes that are better then aluminum oxide, such as Lauzons titanium oxide and acrylic impregnated, but you would limit your options tremendously by looking for a floor with those type of finishes. Urethane w/Aluminum Oxide is really all most people need. Hope that helps.
trying to decide on a Home Depot French Rincon engineered wood with a 1.2mm wear layer and a build direct vanier Marcello oak engineered with a 4mm wear layer but that one has a California lead warning? do most have that?
All products sold in California are required to have a warning label on them. Its apart of Proposition 65. I think a better question is why would you even consider buying flooring from Build Direct. They are not a flooring retailer and therefore you will not receive any service if you have issues with your floor in the future. Just look at the reviews they have online. We have heard of many customers that have had bad experiences. One of the biggest issues is the fact that they have a minimum order quantity. So if you run short on material and need another box or two you are out of luck. I love home depot and shop their all the time, but the flooring selection is limited and typically subpar in quality to what you can get from a flooring retail store. Don't waste your time and hard earned money. Find a 5 star rated retail store and work with them. I guarantee you will be happy you did in the long run.
2mm engineer floor after cleaning and removing the wax buildup I'm ready to protect it can I use the polyurethane or water-based on my final coat what brand ? I will follow up with a call Ben today thank for the vedio
Hello Joe, I would recommend speaking with an installer that does sand and refinishing. Unfortunately we only deal in the selling of prefinished products, therefore I have a very limited amount of knowledge on refinishing a floor. Wish I could help, but unfortunately I'm not the right person to help you one this one.
I want a thicker wear layer because the exact floor I want isn't available. I want a smooth texture engineered hardwood in Jacobean/English Chestnut. Parquet design that transitions into 45- or 90-degree layout.
Hi, thank for the video and informations. My question the base before you put the wood. I want to put to put the wood over the tile? Which advices you can give me, how to prepare the tile floor before put the wood on? Thanks
Hi, great question. Yes you do need to prepare the tile prior to installation. First you need to make sure the tiles floor is fairly flat. If they are not I would not recommend installing over the tile. Before you can glue over tile you will need to sand the tiles so the adhesive can bond to the tiles.
Can you screen and rocket pre-engineered floors that have dings? Trying to figure out what to do with my floors. Never sanded them before. Floors are installed not sure how to measure top layer for thickness
It’s difficult to give you an answer without seeing your floor. In general you should be able to screen and re-coat any pre-finished floor. They can also make repairs to the hardwood if needed at the same time. My recommendation would be to have a professional come out and determine what is needed.
Hi, we are looking at 3 different manufacturers. They are Legno Bastone Coreca , Bella Citta Rhône and En Bois Mirasol. From a quality standpoint would you consider one of them greater than the others?
Unfortunately I am not familiar with either of those brands since they are not available in our area on the West Coast. I would rely on an expert in your area to help guide you. If you are working with a trusted 5 star retailer, they should be able to help you make a decision.
I have an 800 lb pool table. Is there any particular EWF type I should look for that will not crack, split, or leave indentions in the floor? Can EWF be cleaned with a steam mop? Please reply
Hi Kevin, most engineered hardwood floors should be fine with putting a pool table on them as long as it is not a floating installation. Typically the legs on a pool table are wide enough that they disperse the weight and will not cause it to dent. The balls falling off of the table is another story. Those will definitely cause indentations in most hardwood, solid or engineered. Getting a distressed floor will make this less visible. You might want to look into engineered floors that use a hdf core vs the plywood. Due to the high density of the hdf core these floors are very difficult to dent. An example of this is our Valinge product. www.coronahardwood.com/ch/products/flooring+wood+hardwood+laminate+floors/engineered+hardwoods-floor+type/valinge-manufacturer/list Steam mops are not recommended to be used with any hardwood floor because of the moisture and heat. Both of which will ruin the finish over time.
You would just need to measure the top layer of wood. If the overall thickness is .375 it may be difficult to even see the wear layer because it is probably .5mm or 1mm in thickness.
Hi Vicky, if you are talking about the sample in the middle on the table that has a 4mm wear layer it is the D'Vine - Walla Walla www.coronahardwood.com/ch/products/flooring+wood+hardwood+laminate+floors/12416/14752/dvine+walla+walla+french+white+oak/view
Is it possible to lighting sand a 1/2 engineer oak wood and re stain ? I have one stair trend that got light scratches from moving furniture and pretty obvious since it's a Provenza dark oak. It would be a nightmare to rip that out and put a new one not to mention super expensive. It's a light wired brush and Polyurethane finish.
Hi Valeria, Yes technically you should be able to sand a 1/2" product. It really depends on the overall thickness of the top wear layer. If it is the Provenza Affinity collection for instance, that has a 2mm top which can be sanded. If you have a product with 1 or .5 mm thickness I would not recommend it. If it is a light scratch it may primarily be in the finish and you wouldn't need to sand much into the wood at all. If it is a deep gouge you may want to try using wood filler, or there are colored wax sticks that you can fill it in with. Here is a link to the wax sticks: www.amazon.com/Laserjamb-FastCap-WAXKIT-20S-Softwax-Kit/dp/B0009H5KPO/ref=sr_1_48?keywords=Hardwood+Floor+Repair&qid=1644359413&sr=8-48
Looking to install engineered wood on a slab. The slab has a light moister issue. If I seal the foundation can I glue it down? If so what do you recommend to use for a sealer that I can glue over?
The sealer will depend on the brand of adhesive you are using. Each adhesive manufacturer should have a sealer that works best with their product. We stock and recommend going with Bostik as a brand. The sealer they have is called the Bostik MVP. This is one way of addressing the moisture issue, but is not the most cost effective or efficient. Many manufacturers have adhesives with build in moisture barriers. In the case of Bostik this would be the Greenforce or Vapor Lock product. Other well know brand I would recommend are Sika, Mapei, and Titebond by Franklin. All of these brand have sealers and 2 in 1 products with the moisture barrier built into the adhesive.
So we recently just removed Cali Bamboo products from our showroom due to a lack of interest/sales. I am not familiar with the 4mm LVP line since we did not carry that collection. With that said there is a reason we did not carry it. I would not recommend any LVP that is less then 5mm in thickness. Even at 5mm you are talking about a budget product that will not hold up long term. The biggest reason is the locking mechanism is too small and therefore will fail over time. These products are great if you are looking to flip a house and get a hardwood look at a low cost just to sell the home. With recent price increases $3/sf is a fair price for an entry level LVP. Prices in the past 6 months have gone up by approximately $1/sf on LVP products due to increase in shipping cost. If you are looking at a great quality product in the $3-$3.50 range I would recommend you look at the Nexxacore LVP/SPC. They are a smaller family owned company that produces great colors and quality at a fraction of what similar products cost.
You must have missed the part where I state that over 90% of our clients will never refinish their flooring due to the fact that if you refinish a floor that is distressed/wire brushed and has a bevel, which describes 90% of sales, you would lose all of that by sanding the flooring. At that point it no longer looks like the same floor. I also talk about a screen and recoat process which can refinish your floor without ever sanding into the wear layer. Which means it doesn't matter how thick the wear layer is, you would never sand or wear it down. Your definitely breaking the silence on this one 🤣
If you truly want a floor that can be sanded down multiple times like a solid 3/4" floor, that would be one reason. Another reason why someone might want a ticker floor is if they are meeting up to another floor, such as stone, and don't want a big height difference between the two. For most customer though it is perceived value. Most people believe thicker is better and therefor are willing to pay more for a thicker product.
Great question. No, a thicker floor will not have any significant impact on sound. A sound mitigating underlayment or adhesive would be needed for that.
This video isn't very informative because we don't know the hardness rating of each of the floors. Hardness can very greatly and it has everything to do with the drop test.
Thank you for the comment. We specifically picked 3 floors with exactly the same species/hardness (European Oak) If you still don't believe us get some flooring samples at home and try it for yourself.
seriously ? where do you work ? transient california ? if you own your house 30 years you WILL went to refinish your floors, EVEN if you dont have dogs.
Yes we are in California. The finishes on our prefinished products are more superior than the finishes you guys apply on site. Therefore our floors do not require sand and refinish every ten years. It's just not practical. Might as well install a new floor in 30 years. The styles will change dramatically by then. Thanks for the support!
this is nonsense-look if you cant afford 6mm, fine, but stop with this nonsense 4m,m is JUST as good as 6 mm ceteris paradise. on oak flooring from same manufacturer. this fellow needs to sell product- 3/4 in 6mm quality engineered oak IS expensive; i went with 5/8, 4mm baltic birch ply, but i am under noillusionas good/useful as 6mm wear layer. that said spec houses in california are not made to last 60 yrs,cross generations. why have a 100 year floor but2x4 framing, cheap stucco etc ? but thats not the point hes making.
Who cares about punctures? If your going to refinish, those punctures will be filled. The purpose of an engineered floor is to be able to refinish in the future
I'm glad you enjoy refinishing your floor every few years. 99% of our clients never have and never will refinish their flooring. They are looking for floors that will last for 20-30 years without having to be refinished or replaced.
@@CoronaHardwood I am glad someone have money to change floor every 10-15 years. Different people - different habits. If you don't care much attention wooden floor after 10-15 year can have a lot o damage and look real bad. If you thinking buying something "classy" and long lasting ( 30+ years) then you will go with the massive parquet floor or engineered hardwood flooring which can be sanded at least 1-2 times with( 3mm+ top layer). If you buy something "trendy" which you will changing after 10 years with something in-line with new trends then the thickness of the top layer will not be your concern. In my Grandpa's apartment there is 50years old massive oak parquet (fish-bone style ) and in that time it has been two times sanded and refinished and it look fantastic and classy and I guess it could last 50 more years. I do not expect for the engineered floor to last that long but also I do not want to change it after 15 years because if needed it could not be repaired. But that is only my opinion and a guide when putting 150 sqm in my new house. Also IMO buying expensive type of engineered parquet (e.g. Chevron) with only 2mm top layer is a waste of money.
Mmmmm! Formaldehyde! I'll stick with 3/4" hardwood. @3:46 ALL engineered flooring is "cheap". You can call it whatever you want, but it's still a veneer. I can show you 250 yr old, colonial houses with REAL hardwood flooring thats still in use. Good luck getting 25 yrs from an engineered floor 😂 Anyone installing this in a 2+ million dollar house doesn’t a clue about quality.
Benjamin ....You didn't finish, now your responsible to explain why this different Wear layer had come out differently. Their is more to tell ! I'm sure I may be able to tell why .....but you need to tell all of us, who are looking at you for advice.
Can some one tell me if they know any thing about a flooring called Faner flooring I just bought a apartment in sweden and it has this type floor no one can tell me if it can be sanded or just re laquored. please help me thanks
Never heard of the brand. Hopefully you can find an exposed edge and take a look at the thickness of the wear layer. If it’s 2mm or more you should be able to sand it.
You should have talked about the core layers, how many , what woods are they made off. This is more important on a drop test that the surface.
I just sanded my floors. It was a walnut engineered floor. Very dark finish that took a lot of damage from previous owners. Fortunate to have enough to sand it and now colored light and looks great. It was the cheapest option compared to replacing or tiling.
what was the final cost? i want to do the same.
I was particularly shopping for thicker flooring because it definitely feels better and easy while walking over it.
I loved luxury vinyl but most flooring felt like cement hard although there were installed on baseboards. That’s one reason I decided to go with thicker.
But lately the thicker eng hardwood is costing more expensive than real, so I ended going with real.
My first floor is real wood and all the he tested happened like hundreds of times. Believe it or not dents on real wood are very visible immediately but most are gone or back to normal with time.
Even with little wear the real wood looks so beautiful and easy on both eyes and legs. If you can afford I would suggest sticking to it.
99% people go by looks but the feel that comes with a thicker floor wouldn’t come with very thin floor, the drop test are proof, your body takes back most impact of your every touch.
Thank you for busting that wear layer myth! I've been thinking 100% the same as your customers!
Damage is damage. Thicker allows refinishers to sand. Thinner means the owner must replace or live with it
Seems like that would go without saying.
That’s the plan.
Businesses want to sell you something that can’t be fixed.
no ? ? what about cold climate? what if it's cold or moist or warm or hot or dry ? ? can chinese brands withstand all that ?
You ask when is the last time I sanded a floor. A while ago, but I did sand and poly my first apartment floor, did a light sand and poly on my second apartment. But when's the last time I dropped a knife, fork or dumbell on my floor? Never.
The other reason for thick engineered or solid wood flooring is resale value. People will pay a premium for "the good stuff" even if it isn't really any better.
I think it also depends on the type of wood under the wear layer of the plywood (engineered) that will show how much damage will happen. Not on the sharp objects but on the blunt objects. I did buy cheap engineered hard wood for 3 bedrooms and on the first bedroom found that just rolling my heavy bed across the floor left indents that showed right away. Now I am an adult and figured out that if I take off the rollers and put on a 4x4 and felt pads the damage didn't happen. And I love the look and easy care of these floors. But just be alert to blunt force damage on really cheap flooring. I have not damaged any of the floors since than and love the way they look. But I will also say even the salesman at the store couldn't believe the damage and said it shouldn't happen, but it did.
Thank you for sharing your experience.. I completely agree, the quality of the lumber used under the wear layer does affect the durability. A softer core, especially on products with a thinner wear layer will cause it to dent more easily. This is something consumers cannot see visually. I always say you get what you pay for. If you find a product that looks identical to what you were looking at originally for a fraction of the price, there is a reason. Unfortunately a lot of times you will not find out what that reason is until the flooring has been installed.
It's not a controlled experiment if the wear layer is different types of wood.
It says they are all european white oak
Thank you for the video. One additional point on why customers may need a thicker floor is to be able to replace it later on with marble floor which requires 1 inch. So the think it would be great if the engineered wood plus the underlayment take up the space of around 1 inch or maybe a little less than that. Of course the underlayment can be the thicker part instead of getting thicker wood planks
Thin floors will get you by, thick floors will give you options. Water damage is common, the thin floor will never be the same or screwed, the thick floors can be resanded.
Very well put
To be scientifically sound you would need to repeat this test a number of times on each sample to account for differences in manner of dropping (unless you standardize that which even then you would need to repeat). Any experiment needs to be reproducible and you need to take the average of the results. Also, what finish did these floors have? Oil, urethane, aluminum oxide? Were they comparable finishes (some nice things to see). That said I suspect the thicker wood layer would continue to perform poorly in the case of denting, it is less dense of course than manufactured wood, however that is one aspect of evaluating wear layer thickness (resilience to impact). Scratching, wear and tear and remediation of the wood are also important topics. A 2mm wear layer leaves little room for repair. Interesting video nonetheless demonstrating one aspect of wear layer thickness. Would love to see one that's a bit more standardized
Interesting video. I think you should have addressed 1.2mm wear layers that big box stores sell. I am replacing my 1.2mm lumber liquidator floors after 5 years. Dropping knives and heavy objects are one thing, but much more minimal wearing from everyday kind of use (dog's nails, furniture legs, etc.) is probably more applicable.
I think that would be a great subject for a different video. I chose not to add it to this video because I don't recommend anything less than a 2mm wear layer unless budget is the only concern and you are not looking for longevity. There is a point at which you sacrifice quality by going too thin.
As far as dog nails, and furniture legs that would have more to do with the finish rather than the wear layer.
What about the core? Would love a video about importance of core thickness and layers.
This was great information. Extremely helpful! Thank for doing this test.
Thank you, appreciate the positive feedback.
They say you can't teach an old dog new tricks. I must be an old dog, cause for me thicker is better. When I change a floor I expect it to last over fifty years. I'm not convinced any engineered hardwood floor is up to that task let alone one with a 1mm or 2mm wear layer. People don't sand floors regularly but in time all wooden floors are sanded. My house is fifty six years old and it's been sanded twice. The previous owner said he did them in 1976 and 2010. Floors look excellent. My parents home is ninety five years old and the floors were sanded in 1984 and again in 2015. Floors are in great shape. If they can manufacture engineered wood floors to be that tough I would buy it. I want to believe it true, but I have serious doubts.
Thanks for the comment.The purpose of the video is not to convince people to buy floors that have a thinner wear layer. It just points out the fact that for many consumers it shouldn't be the deciding factor. As for your last comment on engineered floors that are as tough as solid. If you get an engineered floor that has a 4mm top or higher you have a floor that is better then a solid floor. Not only can it be sanded down as many times as a solid floor can, it is more dimensionally stable and you have more installations options available. But at the end of the day "to each his own". We offer all options and it's not my job to convince someone as to what they should purchase. We just present the facts and you make the decision that suits you best.
@@CoronaHardwood Glad to hear it. Im putting in a new floor at a small beach house.
Best comment so far 👍. In my experience cheap engineered floor gets replaced all the time, but how often is real wood pulled up and replaced? Perhaps the result of throwaway culture thinking in 10-yr horizons and not what their kids/grandkids will inherit and be proud of. With that said, I agree with the response that a good, thick engineered floor can hold up very well over time and has all the benefits of the modern tech without the drawbacks of a thin, cost-cutting top layer
What is your thought regarding the type of wood used in the plies of an engineered hardwood? If cheap wood is used as plies it will dent much easier especially with anything less than a 2 mil correct?..As well as not hold up to moisture and expansion & contraction as well ? It seems lots of people talk about cores of vinyl planks,, but not hardwood.
Also, that 2nd one looks like it has cross plies with some sort of compressed core, and the 3rd one doesn't look like it has plies at all?
Great job. Exactly what I was looking for.
great video. you focused a lot on the top layer but what about the mid portion of the core. I see Opus makes products with a solid code with channels and En Bois makes products with multiple layers of plywood. What is better? Why?
There is no noticeable difference in performance between the two types of cores if installed and maintained properly. The multi-ply core was specifically designed to provide strength and stability (Less expansion/contraction). More layers equals more strength and stability. With that said I have never seen any issues with a solid core being used.
@@CoronaHardwood Great info. Thank you again. Just spoke with the Opus rep and he said they use solid core because it feels better when walked on and squeaks less but that traditionally people believe multiply may withstand water moisture exposure better. He said what you just said in that they have had no issues with the solid core.
Ok this was good information and relieves my concern about thickness. I do however have a concern about off gassing though and formaldehyde in the glue as well as toxicity in the finish. Also my home builder is using Anderson tuftex engineered wood in half inch HWMPN majestic pecan 17040 chestnut and I can’t tell what is the wear layer thickness. I can’t tell by looking at it cause it’s so thin, so I would assume it’s .6mm so how does .6mm compare to 2mm?
As far as off gassing, I would not be concerned with any products that are sold in California since we have the strictest regulations when it comes to that (CARB II Compliance). Anderson is an excellent brand, they invented engineered hardwood decades ago and are known for their quality. We did not do any testing on anything less than 2mm, so I cannot tell you exactly how it would perform, but the primary focus should be on the type of finish it has. As mentioned before Anderson is known for quality and we have not had any complaints or issues with their products in the almost 2 decades we have been selling it. So you should be good with any of the products they offer. Primarily just need to focus on color/style.
Makes sense that the thicker wear layer will dent more easily because it has more real wood on top of the core, where the others will get more support from the core because of less real wood.
Like others have said dropping things is going to be a lot less common they how well they would stand up to everyday use. In this case, I would say there would be no difference for all three.
Doesn't engineered hardwood floors have "real" wood as their plies? Some use harder wood as plies than others.
He’s basically saying buy engineered wood with thin layer of veneer.
The advantages to businesses:
Thin layer of veneer is cheaper.
When people start seeing scratches/gouges they can replace the whole floor, businesses can sell more.
Toss the old flooring in landfill.
Refinishing wood flooring will make it look like brand new, it takes like 2days, I have done this in my home built in 1960.
Businesses would love consumers to buy something that can’t be fixed, more business for them.
I don't think you watched the entire video or if you did you need to re-watch it because your summary is completely off.
1. Density of wear layer is important, suspect 6mm was less dense than the other two. 2. You need to conduct this test multiple times before drawing any conclusions. 3 this is an impact test what about long term friction testing which would show that the 6mm had a longer life expectancy due to general wear. 4. You could sand and re varnish the 6mm down more times than the others again showing the 6mm to be the better option in terms of lifetime!
Thanks for the comment Alan. 1) We made sure to test products that were all of the same species/density of wood. 2) We conducted this test many times with many different species and manufacturers before we drew a conclusion. For the purpose of time we condensed this for the video. 3) A friction test would be a test of the finish on top of the wood, not the actual wear layer, since you are never actually wearing the wood. 4) The main point is most customers will never sand and refinish the floors, so it is not important to have a thicker wear layer.
Conclusion: This is a test that can be very easily replicated by anyone at home with a handful of samples. You don't have to take our word for it. We were just as surprised by the findings as most people are.
What a name for a store
Corona Hardwood
What a great presentation! Certainly provided me with a good argument for the floors I have installed today! Thanks a bunch!!
great video + explanation + presentation! well done mate! thanks for sharing!
Great video 💪🏼
Thanks buddy! Appreciate the feedback
Site finished is more desirable and will add more value to you home when you decide to sell. Lifetime floor vs very limited value.
Interesting opinion. I can't say I agree, but to each his own. Thanks for the comment.
With respect, what wood was in each sample, a hard oak or a softer wood?
Hi Colleen,
All of the samples were European White Oak
@@CoronaHardwood what was the 6mm floor? Looks like a softer wood. ... For this to be across the board fair.... The same hardness of wood should be used with the same protective coating on each floor thickness... Seems like that would be a more fair assessment. Ok
@@Myeyeofthebeholder All 3 products were European White Oak with an aluminum oxide urethane finish. The beauty about this test is you can easily verify it at home with sample pieces from a flooring store and a depth gauge.
I didn't hear any discussion about the type of wood used for each wear layer. Do we assume that the wood type was consistent across all thicknesses?
Yes, all 3 were the same type of hardwood. European white oak. We only showed 3 samples in the video but we tested many more prior to filming. The results were the same.
As a retired machinist of 38 years how do you use a outside vernier caliper to measure depth? You would need a depth guage to do that. The caliper in the video measures outside diameter only??
😀 Your the first person to comment on that. It's a 2-in-1 tool. The video only shows one side of the tool. The opposite side, not shown in the video, acts as a depth gauge. However since the measurement is shown at the top of the tool, this made more sense for the video. Hopefully that answers your question.
Thanks, but how about water, juice, wine, or any liquid spills? Stain resistant? Furniture being moved, scratches?
Great question David. We did not address any of that in this video because the wear layer has nothing to do with scratches and stains. When it comes to stains and scratches the focus needs to be on the finish. There are many different types of finishes on the market that will perform at different levels. You can have the hardest species of wood, with a cheap finish that will scratch easily. I will address this subject in a future video since it seems like many people have the same question.
Very good demonstration I always recommend this products to my clients 👌
Yea untill you burn through the thinner wear later. Go with the thicker wear layer. Piece of mind knowing you can sand it down without burn through
Yea, I'm with you on that. I'd rather pay extra for the thicker wear layer.
Best flooring to install on existing hardwood floor. ??? They are old and don't Want to remove them .
It depends on the type of flooring (solid vs engineered) and how it is secured. I have seen people put vinyl plank on and engineered hardwood floor and not have any issues. I would not recommend this with a solid hardwood though due to how temperamental it is.
great & helpful video thank you
Is it normal for one to only sand down a layer where there's damage? or is that not a thing because...?
Thanks for sharing!
Can you use radiant floor heating systems with engineered wood floors
You need to check with the manufacturer of the product you are planning on using, but in general yes you can.
Thicker plank will give better insulation
good presentation thank you.
Eye opener, I’m guess a solid wood floor wouldn’t do well?
Thank you.
Thanks for the video
I don't like polyurethane finish. What are other types of finish on engineered hardwood? I was thinking of getting solid wood floors and using tung oil.
Primarily, the only other two options available would be either a Lacquer Finish, which is very similar to urethane, or an oil finish. Based on your comment seems like the oil finish would be what you are looking for. This is a great option if you are looking for a lifetime maintainable finish that is natural and free from toxic chemicals and makes it easy to touch up any scratches or scuff marks over the years. If you visit our website www.CoronaHardwood.com you can search specifically for oil finished floors. Keep in mind that maintaining these products with an approved cleaner and rejuvenator oil is a must.
Any tips for choosing the top finish layer?
I would focus on the warranty when choosing a finish. 25 years + means you shouldn't have any issues. Anything less then that I would be concerned about. Most finishes on the market are very similar (Urethane with Aluminum Oxide) and will be very durable. There are some finishes that are better then aluminum oxide, such as Lauzons titanium oxide and acrylic impregnated, but you would limit your options tremendously by looking for a floor with those type of finishes. Urethane w/Aluminum Oxide is really all most people need. Hope that helps.
Very informative, and well presented. Much food for thought, and you've just saved me a ton of money! Thank you. England salutes you.
You're very welcome!
Seems odd people would think of sanding their new floor. Just buy the floor you want. I wouldn't buy a floor I needed to sand
trying to decide on a Home Depot French Rincon engineered wood with a 1.2mm wear layer and a build direct vanier Marcello oak engineered with a 4mm wear layer but that one has a California lead warning? do most have that?
All products sold in California are required to have a warning label on them. Its apart of Proposition 65.
I think a better question is why would you even consider buying flooring from Build Direct. They are not a flooring retailer and therefore you will not receive any service if you have issues with your floor in the future. Just look at the reviews they have online. We have heard of many customers that have had bad experiences. One of the biggest issues is the fact that they have a minimum order quantity. So if you run short on material and need another box or two you are out of luck.
I love home depot and shop their all the time, but the flooring selection is limited and typically subpar in quality to what you can get from a flooring retail store.
Don't waste your time and hard earned money. Find a 5 star rated retail store and work with them. I guarantee you will be happy you did in the long run.
Great video!!! Very informative
Thanks Mark, appreciate the support
Well done! Thx!
2mm engineer floor after cleaning and removing the wax buildup I'm ready to protect it can I use the polyurethane or water-based on my final coat what brand ?
I will follow up with a call Ben today thank for the vedio
Hello Joe, I would recommend speaking with an installer that does sand and refinishing. Unfortunately we only deal in the selling of prefinished products, therefore I have a very limited amount of knowledge on refinishing a floor. Wish I could help, but unfortunately I'm not the right person to help you one this one.
what's your opinion on VIDAR?
Unfortunately I am not familiar with Vidal. Looks like it is exclusively available in Canada. First time I hear that name.
I want a thicker wear layer because the exact floor I want isn't available. I want a smooth texture engineered hardwood in Jacobean/English Chestnut. Parquet design that transitions into 45- or 90-degree layout.
Hi, thank for the video and informations. My question the base before you put the wood. I want to put to put the wood over the tile? Which advices you can give me, how to prepare the tile floor before put the wood on?
Thanks
Hi, great question. Yes you do need to prepare the tile prior to installation. First you need to make sure the tiles floor is fairly flat. If they are not I would not recommend installing over the tile. Before you can glue over tile you will need to sand the tiles so the adhesive can bond to the tiles.
I would recommend you to take the tiles off before installing wooden flooring
Great video. Very helpful
Can you screen and rocket pre-engineered floors that have dings?
Trying to figure out what to do with my floors. Never sanded them before.
Floors are installed not sure how to measure top layer for thickness
It’s difficult to give you an answer without seeing your floor. In general you should be able to screen and re-coat any pre-finished floor. They can also make repairs to the hardwood if needed at the same time. My recommendation would be to have a professional come out and determine what is needed.
Hi, we are looking at 3 different manufacturers. They are Legno Bastone Coreca , Bella Citta Rhône and En Bois Mirasol. From a quality standpoint would you consider one of them greater than the others?
Unfortunately I am not familiar with either of those brands since they are not available in our area on the West Coast. I would rely on an expert in your area to help guide you. If you are working with a trusted 5 star retailer, they should be able to help you make a decision.
Im actually looking at En Bois vs. Opus. I wonder which you went with and why?
Should I get something thicker if i want to do a light screening in the future?
You will be fine with a 2mm and above wear layer. I wouldn't get anything less than 2mm if you want the floor to last 20+ years
"The [salesman] doth protest too much, methinks." He apparently sells cheaper flooring and has tailored his presentation accordingly.
Say huh?
I have an 800 lb pool table. Is there any particular EWF type I should look for that will not crack, split, or leave indentions in the floor? Can EWF be cleaned with a steam mop? Please reply
Hi Kevin, most engineered hardwood floors should be fine with putting a pool table on them as long as it is not a floating installation. Typically the legs on a pool table are wide enough that they disperse the weight and will not cause it to dent. The balls falling off of the table is another story. Those will definitely cause indentations in most hardwood, solid or engineered. Getting a distressed floor will make this less visible. You might want to look into engineered floors that use a hdf core vs the plywood. Due to the high density of the hdf core these floors are very difficult to dent. An example of this is our Valinge product. www.coronahardwood.com/ch/products/flooring+wood+hardwood+laminate+floors/engineered+hardwoods-floor+type/valinge-manufacturer/list
Steam mops are not recommended to be used with any hardwood floor because of the moisture and heat. Both of which will ruin the finish over time.
How do you tell what the wear layer is? I'm getting shaw engineered hardwood 5" planks in weathered color, it just says .375 thickness of the plank
You would just need to measure the top layer of wood. If the overall thickness is .375 it may be difficult to even see the wear layer because it is probably .5mm or 1mm in thickness.
In that Shaw series the wear layer varies from 1.2 to 3mm.
I want to know what’s the brand and color of the second exam floor, it’s what I am looking for
Hi Vicky, if you are talking about the sample in the middle on the table that has a 4mm wear layer it is the D'Vine - Walla Walla
www.coronahardwood.com/ch/products/flooring+wood+hardwood+laminate+floors/12416/14752/dvine+walla+walla+french+white+oak/view
Is it possible to lighting sand a 1/2 engineer oak wood and re stain ? I have one stair trend that got light scratches from moving furniture and pretty obvious since it's a Provenza dark oak. It would be a nightmare to rip that out and put a new one not to mention super expensive. It's a light wired brush and Polyurethane finish.
Hi Valeria, Yes technically you should be able to sand a 1/2" product. It really depends on the overall thickness of the top wear layer. If it is the Provenza Affinity collection for instance, that has a 2mm top which can be sanded. If you have a product with 1 or .5 mm thickness I would not recommend it. If it is a light scratch it may primarily be in the finish and you wouldn't need to sand much into the wood at all. If it is a deep gouge you may want to try using wood filler, or there are colored wax sticks that you can fill it in with. Here is a link to the wax sticks: www.amazon.com/Laserjamb-FastCap-WAXKIT-20S-Softwax-Kit/dp/B0009H5KPO/ref=sr_1_48?keywords=Hardwood+Floor+Repair&qid=1644359413&sr=8-48
@@CoronaHardwood thank you so much! Appreciate your help!! 🙏🏻
Looking to install engineered wood on a slab. The slab has a light moister issue. If I seal the foundation can I glue it down? If so what do you recommend to use for a sealer that I can glue over?
The sealer will depend on the brand of adhesive you are using. Each adhesive manufacturer should have a sealer that works best with their product. We stock and recommend going with Bostik as a brand. The sealer they have is called the Bostik MVP. This is one way of addressing the moisture issue, but is not the most cost effective or efficient. Many manufacturers have adhesives with build in moisture barriers. In the case of Bostik this would be the Greenforce or Vapor Lock product.
Other well know brand I would recommend are Sika, Mapei, and Titebond by Franklin. All of these brand have sealers and 2 in 1 products with the moisture barrier built into the adhesive.
If you need more advise on it call me
Depend if the 3 veneer floors are the same type of wood?
All 3 are European Oak!
What are your thoughts on Cali Bamboo products? They are offering me a 4mm LVP with a 20 mil wear layer for $3/sqft. It seems pricey - is it worth it?
So we recently just removed Cali Bamboo products from our showroom due to a lack of interest/sales. I am not familiar with the 4mm LVP line since we did not carry that collection. With that said there is a reason we did not carry it. I would not recommend any LVP that is less then 5mm in thickness. Even at 5mm you are talking about a budget product that will not hold up long term. The biggest reason is the locking mechanism is too small and therefore will fail over time. These products are great if you are looking to flip a house and get a hardwood look at a low cost just to sell the home. With recent price increases $3/sf is a fair price for an entry level LVP. Prices in the past 6 months have gone up by approximately $1/sf on LVP products due to increase in shipping cost. If you are looking at a great quality product in the $3-$3.50 range I would recommend you look at the Nexxacore LVP/SPC. They are a smaller family owned company that produces great colors and quality at a fraction of what similar products cost.
@@CoronaHardwood wow thanks a bunch
Subscribed
Great info..thnx👌🙏🙏🙏
This does not address how many times you can refinish the floor.
You must have missed the part where I state that over 90% of our clients will never refinish their flooring due to the fact that if you refinish a floor that is distressed/wire brushed and has a bevel, which describes 90% of sales, you would lose all of that by sanding the flooring. At that point it no longer looks like the same floor. I also talk about a screen and recoat process which can refinish your floor without ever sanding into the wear layer. Which means it doesn't matter how thick the wear layer is, you would never sand or wear it down. Your definitely breaking the silence on this one 🤣
Hardwood and laundry detergent are two different things.
Great observation! Thank you for listening intently.
So why do thicker wear layers exist?
If you truly want a floor that can be sanded down multiple times like a solid 3/4" floor, that would be one reason. Another reason why someone might want a ticker floor is if they are meeting up to another floor, such as stone, and don't want a big height difference between the two. For most customer though it is perceived value. Most people believe thicker is better and therefor are willing to pay more for a thicker product.
cores are different.
Would thicker be more sound proof
Great question. No, a thicker floor will not have any significant impact on sound. A sound mitigating underlayment or adhesive would be needed for that.
This video isn't very informative because we don't know the hardness rating of each of the floors. Hardness can very greatly and it has everything to do with the drop test.
Thank you for the comment. We specifically picked 3 floors with exactly the same species/hardness (European Oak) If you still don't believe us get some flooring samples at home and try it for yourself.
seriously ? where do you work ? transient california ? if you own your house 30 years you WILL went to refinish your floors, EVEN if you dont have dogs.
Yes we are in California. The finishes on our prefinished products are more superior than the finishes you guys apply on site. Therefore our floors do not require sand and refinish every ten years. It's just not practical. Might as well install a new floor in 30 years. The styles will change dramatically by then. Thanks for the support!
this is nonsense-look if you cant afford 6mm, fine, but stop with this nonsense 4m,m is JUST as good as 6 mm ceteris paradise. on oak flooring from same manufacturer. this fellow needs to sell product- 3/4 in 6mm quality engineered oak IS expensive; i went with 5/8, 4mm baltic birch ply, but i am under noillusionas good/useful as 6mm wear layer. that said spec houses in california are not made to last 60 yrs,cross generations. why have a 100 year floor but2x4 framing, cheap stucco etc ? but thats not the point hes making.
Who cares about punctures? If your going to refinish, those punctures will be filled. The purpose of an engineered floor is to be able to refinish in the future
I'm glad you enjoy refinishing your floor every few years. 99% of our clients never have and never will refinish their flooring. They are looking for floors that will last for 20-30 years without having to be refinished or replaced.
@@CoronaHardwood I am glad someone have money to change floor every 10-15 years. Different people - different habits. If you don't care much attention wooden floor after 10-15 year can have a lot o damage and look real bad. If you thinking buying something "classy" and long lasting ( 30+ years) then you will go with the massive parquet floor or engineered hardwood flooring which can be sanded at least 1-2 times with( 3mm+ top layer). If you buy something "trendy" which you will changing after 10 years with something in-line with new trends then the thickness of the top layer will not be your concern.
In my Grandpa's apartment there is 50years old massive oak parquet (fish-bone style ) and in that time it has been two times sanded and refinished and it look fantastic and classy and I guess it could last 50 more years. I do not expect for the engineered floor to last that long but also I do not want to change it after 15 years because if needed it could not be repaired. But that is only my opinion and a guide when putting 150 sqm in my new house.
Also IMO buying expensive type of engineered parquet (e.g. Chevron) with only 2mm top layer is a waste of money.
In practical 99.9% home owners of today never re finish the hardwood floor once installed..
Very good point. This is exactly why most homeowners do not need a product with a 6mm wear layer.
Mmmmm! Formaldehyde!
I'll stick with 3/4" hardwood.
@3:46 ALL engineered flooring is "cheap". You can call it whatever you want, but it's still a veneer.
I can show you 250 yr old, colonial houses with REAL hardwood flooring thats still in use. Good luck getting 25 yrs from an engineered floor 😂
Anyone installing this in a 2+ million dollar house doesn’t a clue about quality.
Thank you for the comment. Appreciate your input.
Benjamin ....You didn't finish, now your responsible to explain why this different Wear layer had come out differently. Their is more to tell !
I'm sure I may be able to tell why .....but you need to tell all of us, who are looking at you for advice.
Can some one tell me if they know any thing about a flooring called Faner flooring I just bought a apartment in sweden and it has this type floor no one can tell me if it can be sanded or just re laquored. please help me thanks
Never heard of the brand. Hopefully you can find an exposed edge and take a look at the thickness of the wear layer. If it’s 2mm or more you should be able to sand it.