I think there's something to be said for playing a slightly less powerful cube full of cards you really enjoy and have fun playing vs trying to make the most powerful hyper efficient cube you can. It honestly probably leads to more fun magic most of the time unless your entire idea of fun is playing against the biggest challenges that you can constantly and knowing that your deck needs to be top notch or you're probably gonna get rolled. Even then might still get rolled frequently just because of card power level and your opponent simply being on the play or drawing one more spell than you.
There’s a whole community of cube curators that are striving for this experience. Podcasts like Lucky Paper Radio and forums like /r/mtgcube, mtgsalvation and MTG Cube Talk discord server have really boosted this idea in the last few years and I credit the boys at LPR especially. We know that high power limited sets are not always the best so why should cube be different? Also the advent of insane 3+ drops has basically killed the old version of aggro decks that unironically played cards like Firedrinker Satyr. Aggro and Tempo are just completely different beasts these days. Not saying its bad or worse, it’s just not the same as it was 5 years ago.
I have been playing lots of this iteration of cube and I like it better than recent versions. I drafted a really fun twin deck and that was cool to have back in the cube. I got stage depths out a few times. Overall good fun.
Match 2 game 3 was even better imo, play to your only out turns in advance, have about a 19% 2/11chance at drawing balance on the first 2 looks then if they emrakul you get another 2 looks on your double turn for around 23% 2/9, they couldn't do much with the emrakul turn, was just fantastic, also being in the position where they've got nothing left, I thought it was impossible but LSV purely played to his outs and they weren't as long of a shot as I thought.
I would love to see some other versions of cube you come up with. We all know the max power cube at this point so it's fun seeing some different card shines. Appreciate the content as always!
Well done LSV, loved this, that middle match was insane, it wasn't that it came down to peeling balance, it's that you set up to play to your only out turns in advance and when it came together you got the win, I don't know what the odds were, like you had bottomed some cards and had 2 looks that turn, think it was like 2/11 or something like that so almost a 20 percent chance and then maybe another 2/9 chance after they play Emrakul and you get 2 draws, crazy amount of thinking through I just did to figure out what the best line would be and you just reacted immediately, also if they played Emrakul then there's not really anything they could have done with their your turn to you. Very impressed, really enjoyed these matches.
"I'm gonna have to order like a peasant here." I straight up just lost it - classic LSV. But who I'm I to judge, I also had to role-play as a peasant last drafts.
I was your first opponent and my deck was a mess with not enought playable so filled with Land and field of the dead +oath/sneak. Was still fun to play against you
51:54 just so everyone knows, LSV doesn’t understand how birthing ritual works. You don’t sacrifice a creature then just hopefully find the right mana value in the top 7. You look at the top 7 first, then decide if you want to sacrifice a creature. Clearly he would think more highly of the card if he understood how it actually works (still probably isn’t good enough for powered cube tbh)
54:30 he keeps doing it lol. Hate to be that guy but reading the card explains the card. It’s actually costing him here because he thinks the craterhoof is still on top of opp’s library. 57:35 he concedes because he thinks opponent still has hoof in hand. In reality because you always have to look at the top 7 with birthing ritual (not a may) the hoof is close to the bottom of opp’s library.
Looking forward to your retro cube whenever you get the time to make it. Much as I do like the current cube, it feels like it's move on enough that it's a new format, so a throwback cube is a properly different experience.
I mean, I guess the upside of the cards being bigger is we can see the cards better,.,. But ya, does look like a pain when trying to maneuver the cards around for deckbuilding.. Love the videos LSV, you explaining your thought process on picks and building really helps out (even though I'm sure you see the things way faster, helps us follow along 😅)
Match two is a textbook demonstration as to why parallax wave does not substitute for a sweeper in a threat-light, draw-go style control deck. In contrast to a more threat-dense deck where you can close out the game while opponent's creatures are temporarily exiled, in Cheons you often need more turns to find your wincon.Thankfully he found balance which took care of business. Sick games!
WAIT WAIT WAIT WHAT You spec'd on tinker, have the signets for it and even a mox, a tutor and a ton of card selection to find it, a bunch of cheap/free counters to protect it, and you don't even MENTION the Blightsteel? That is the best possible tinker target in the cube and would've given you an insanely strong control deck that can also just end games from out of no where as early as turn 3.
50:00 I think making a 2/2 samurai to block the hermit would have been better. You go to 4, but end up with two 2/2's and Emperor at 1 instead of being at 10 with only one 2/2 and no Emperor.
LSV dominating the old retro vintage cube, as expected. I'm wondering if your playing style has been shaped by how magic used to be over the years (slightly slower, more controlling, and not as easy to be run over by powerful cards?). Compared to less wins now in newer cube/formats. Is it something about magic has evolved, become much faster, but LSV haven't adapted to the new, faster magic? Note, this is not a diss, just a thought/question. Everyone is bias and it's hard to change ways.
Yeah, I was kinda confused as well until i realized these are signets instead of the talismans I'm used to and don't have the 1 generic mana tapping option, so there is no way to tap it and still have double blue up. The point is moot since the signet is turned off by the revoker anyway.
I find the retro cube infinitely more interesting to watch. The pushing of creatures and demise of control has been so disappointing to this Cheon enjoyer.
That snuff out really punished you for tapping wrong with signet. Not sure if you would have played both leak and spike anyway, but would have been nice to have the option
at 17:56 was it not a consideration to exile the archon so it can't be discarded? basically removes it from the game permanently. with parallax wave you get to play around the oath of druids
Hey LSV you always seem to tick the No Possible play :yield all button I could be wrong but I don't think I've ever seen you not tick it. I'm also pretty sure there is an option in the client to have it ticked by default. Am I missing something? Is there a reason you don't have it auto ticked and save yourself a few clicks per game?
You kept bringing up and playing around Emracul in your second round when you opponent time twistered and didn't even have it. You even got to see their hand again post twister and it wasn't there.
LSV has always *hated* blightsteel, he really dislikes cards that his controlling decks are strong against (it's obviously quite weak to bounce or exile). It's true that it's not the best tinker target possible but it's certainly in the top 5, so I think he underrates it a bit. It's in the same category as mind twist for me: cards that people generally overrate but LSV underrates. At that point though, he really wasn't doing the artifact stuff, and fitting in blightsteel and tinker means an additional 6 cards or so at least, so it wasn't on his radar. Given the rest of the pack though, I think it warranted a pick. At the very least you have it as a great sideboard plan against decks that are soft to it or where your control plan isn't great (i.e. vs. brain freeze decks).
@@brianh5844 It is the best tinker target. 100% in a deck with so much counter magic and free counter magic, a tutor to find it, plenty of signets and even a mox for the random turn 2 blightsteel. That was just bad in general and I'd like to hear LSV's reasoning or if he just completely missed that it was in the pack.
Second opponent wow. Talk about throwing the game away. Just cast the emrakul man! That's why I don't like the vintage leagues very much. Opponents are really weak.
@@LSVargas Bro, you have to deal with like every commenter trying to prove your game actions wrong, often when they are scrubs. How in the world do you deal with the constant deluge of terrible 'Um, actually...'
You must be trying to take Tinker from every position at least once and not play it: P1p1, p1p2... How do you take Marsh Flats over signet, right after taking Tinker? Just stop taking Tinker. You're not going to have 5 Moxen and Mana Crypt. If you pass the cheap artifacts pack 1, it's over. Nothing pack two, no Tolarian Academy, etc...
Incorrect. It is the most fun! On a real note, though. MtG used to be a game about interaction, especially with instants and sorceries. They realized it limited the appeal to new and/or amateur players, so they started watering down that aspect of the game. If you hate countermagic and control, just play any version of this game from like 2015 (maybe?) on. Look at the modern vintage cube. Everything is hyper-efficient threats that countermagic really doesn't stand up too well against. Your version of magic exists. In fact, it's the current face of the game.
@@Gobblesthepatient It's the definition of interactive. You are literally acting when your opponent acts. There is nothing more interactive. Plus, you also have all kinds of tough choices to make, when to tap out, when to go for it vs. lay back and wait. The tough decision of what to counter and what to let pass. It's incredibly fun. You just sound really sour for some reason. Instead of crying about it and saying remove counterspells from the game, why don't you learn to enjoy the cat and mouse? Counterspells are also the only thing keeping combo from running rampant and the game becoming completely degenerate. They are incredibly necessary for keeping the game balanced.
I think there's something to be said for playing a slightly less powerful cube full of cards you really enjoy and have fun playing vs trying to make the most powerful hyper efficient cube you can. It honestly probably leads to more fun magic most of the time unless your entire idea of fun is playing against the biggest challenges that you can constantly and knowing that your deck needs to be top notch or you're probably gonna get rolled. Even then might still get rolled frequently just because of card power level and your opponent simply being on the play or drawing one more spell than you.
There’s a whole community of cube curators that are striving for this experience.
Podcasts like Lucky Paper Radio and forums like /r/mtgcube, mtgsalvation and MTG Cube Talk discord server have really boosted this idea in the last few years and I credit the boys at LPR especially.
We know that high power limited sets are not always the best so why should cube be different?
Also the advent of insane 3+ drops has basically killed the old version of aggro decks that unironically played cards like Firedrinker Satyr. Aggro and Tempo are just completely different beasts these days. Not saying its bad or worse, it’s just not the same as it was 5 years ago.
I have been playing lots of this iteration of cube and I like it better than recent versions. I drafted a really fun twin deck and that was cool to have back in the cube. I got stage depths out a few times. Overall good fun.
Okay but all of these weak cards suck to play with. If you enjoy casting Consecrated Sphinx or Primeval Titan in cube you need to be put in a home.
But in this cube there is even bigger power gap between the power/strongest cards and everything else
@@funkalunkit just feels so bad when you have to play jackal pup against busted combo decks because the busted decks weren’t open
Match 2 game 2 was truly something. Peel the perfect cards 5 times in a row but you run out of kill conditions. Now this is classic vintage cube.
Match 2 game 3 was even better imo, play to your only out turns in advance, have about a 19% 2/11chance at drawing balance on the first 2 looks then if they emrakul you get another 2 looks on your double turn for around 23% 2/9, they couldn't do much with the emrakul turn, was just fantastic, also being in the position where they've got nothing left, I thought it was impossible but LSV purely played to his outs and they weren't as long of a shot as I thought.
"I'll have to order like a peasant. Pretty brutal." That's how I used to order before watching lsv...
I would love to see some other versions of cube you come up with. We all know the max power cube at this point so it's fun seeing some different card shines. Appreciate the content as always!
Well done LSV, loved this, that middle match was insane, it wasn't that it came down to peeling balance, it's that you set up to play to your only out turns in advance and when it came together you got the win, I don't know what the odds were, like you had bottomed some cards and had 2 looks that turn, think it was like 2/11 or something like that so almost a 20 percent chance and then maybe another 2/9 chance after they play Emrakul and you get 2 draws, crazy amount of thinking through I just did to figure out what the best line would be and you just reacted immediately, also if they played Emrakul then there's not really anything they could have done with their your turn to you. Very impressed, really enjoyed these matches.
The massive zoom is actually pretty nice when I'm watching on my phone
“Yeah, I really didn’t send my best in this particular game.” 😂
Fix something, break something, the mtgo experience.
this deck is a work of art, mtgo wilding with these card sizes tho lmao
1:19:28 "And game, blouses"
I had to listen to that again. It got me. 😂
1:15:27 We all collectively jumped with him xD I love it
"I'm gonna have to order like a peasant here." I straight up just lost it - classic LSV. But who I'm I to judge, I also had to role-play as a peasant last drafts.
I was your first opponent and my deck was a mess with not enought playable so filled with Land and field of the dead +oath/sneak. Was still fun to play against you
51:54 just so everyone knows, LSV doesn’t understand how birthing ritual works. You don’t sacrifice a creature then just hopefully find the right mana value in the top 7. You look at the top 7 first, then decide if you want to sacrifice a creature. Clearly he would think more highly of the card if he understood how it actually works (still probably isn’t good enough for powered cube tbh)
54:30 he keeps doing it lol. Hate to be that guy but reading the card explains the card. It’s actually costing him here because he thinks the craterhoof is still on top of opp’s library. 57:35 he concedes because he thinks opponent still has hoof in hand. In reality because you always have to look at the top 7 with birthing ritual (not a may) the hoof is close to the bottom of opp’s library.
@@subtleknife1 1:10:30 He knows how it works bro...
EDIT!: 1:10:40 HA i guess he doesnt really lol, didnt even notice the hexdrinker come into play...
@ ya he definitely doesn’t. The funny thing is he’s still right that it was pretty horrendous in those games 😆
Oh lol, I was definitely wrong about how it works (but not wrong about it being garbage)
@@LSVargas doesn’t really seem like a cube card. It is powerful in constructed though
Looking forward to your retro cube whenever you get the time to make it. Much as I do like the current cube, it feels like it's move on enough that it's a new format, so a throwback cube is a properly different experience.
Love watching you play this retro cube looking forward to see if you and BK are excited for any foundations cards even though it’s a standard set
"I would love to get a Consecrated Sphinx back." 🥰
39:10 "I''m just kinda jammin" - thank you for the new catchphrase for mid players like me!
I mean, I guess the upside of the cards being bigger is we can see the cards better,.,.
But ya, does look like a pain when trying to maneuver the cards around for deckbuilding..
Love the videos LSV, you explaining your thought process on picks and building really helps out (even though I'm sure you see the things way faster, helps us follow along 😅)
1:11:38 this was just an insane game to win. Great content as always :)
1:19:46 has my vote for best 10 seconds of MtG content this year
Match two is a textbook demonstration as to why parallax wave does not substitute for a sweeper in a threat-light, draw-go style control deck. In contrast to a more threat-dense deck where you can close out the game while opponent's creatures are temporarily exiled, in Cheons you often need more turns to find your wincon.Thankfully he found balance which took care of business. Sick games!
Balance in the right hands is so powerful. Best white spell imo.
100% agree with LSV when he said if there was a white spell added to the power 9 it would be Balance.
This is so what I need. Thank you, sir.
WAIT WAIT WAIT WHAT
You spec'd on tinker, have the signets for it and even a mox, a tutor and a ton of card selection to find it, a bunch of cheap/free counters to protect it, and you don't even MENTION the Blightsteel? That is the best possible tinker target in the cube and would've given you an insanely strong control deck that can also just end games from out of no where as early as turn 3.
I noticed that as well. It's like a lot of people think it's too cheap or something maybe? I dunno
match 2 game 1 was sooo satisfying just uw control functioning at its best
"Game blouses." - Dave Chapelle as Prince or LSV
Can you talk about the choice of going for Preordain over Bolas' Citadel @2:05 ? I've seen you crush with tinker/citadel before!
"So unlucky" then laughs 😂🤣😂🤣
Retro cube has been great to watch a lot better pace of game play imo.
Love it!
Ayyyyyo first comment? Let’s go. This video already looking classic
Such great content
New vintage cube makes old vintage cube look like legacy cube
Not even Legacy, cause most of the new cards on Vintage Cube also play Legacy.
When you play a cube without the big new cards and you get new, big cards instead. Classic MTGO.
The mono-green game was probably one of the best Cube games on this Channel. Really drawn out, but every decision mattered.
Great Games!
CHEON! CENTAUR! UNBELIEVABLE!
50:00 I think making a 2/2 samurai to block the hermit would have been better. You go to 4, but end up with two 2/2's and Emperor at 1 instead of being at 10 with only one 2/2 and no Emperor.
Your cube clearly needs goblin bombardment.
LSV dominating the old retro vintage cube, as expected. I'm wondering if your playing style has been shaped by how magic used to be over the years (slightly slower, more controlling, and not as easy to be run over by powerful cards?). Compared to less wins now in newer cube/formats. Is it something about magic has evolved, become much faster, but LSV haven't adapted to the new, faster magic? Note, this is not a diss, just a thought/question. Everyone is bias and it's hard to change ways.
Day 3 of me suggesting you assemble a cube with only retro framed cards!
Love the content
They jacked MTGO
Had you tapped signet for identity would you be able to mana leak + 1 mana counter (forgot the name)?
Yeah, I was kinda confused as well until i realized these are signets instead of the talismans I'm used to and don't have the 1 generic mana tapping option, so there is no way to tap it and still have double blue up. The point is moot since the signet is turned off by the revoker anyway.
I find the retro cube infinitely more interesting to watch.
The pushing of creatures and demise of control has been so disappointing to this Cheon enjoyer.
LSV has twins on the way? I'm assuming their names will be Pester and Deceiver.
Bruh you shuffled lingering souls and the wandering emperor? That is a win condition and removal all in one!
That snuff out really punished you for tapping wrong with signet. Not sure if you would have played both leak and spike anyway, but would have been nice to have the option
Revoker named signet, he couldn't have tapped it
at 17:56 was it not a consideration to exile the archon so it can't be discarded? basically removes it from the game permanently. with parallax wave you get to play around the oath of druids
"Game. Blouses."
Can't believe how unlucky opponent got g1 losing 6 flips in a row. lol
1:31:07 Classic Bazaar+Library combo.
Game...Blouses. Would you guys like some Cheons?
Hey LSV you always seem to tick the No Possible play :yield all button I could be wrong but I don't think I've ever seen you not tick it. I'm also pretty sure there is an option in the client to have it ticked by default. Am I missing something? Is there a reason you don't have it auto ticked and save yourself a few clicks per game?
Probably only does that when making content, and doesn't want to forget when playing competitively?
He turns it on and off as the game goes, doesn't he? I doubt he wants that on all game, only certain turns where he literally has no plays.
i get unreasonably tilted whenever someone floats mana for no reason.
Yeah that used to not be an action people took. Now everybody does it lol
You kept bringing up and playing around Emracul in your second round when you opponent time twistered and didn't even have it. You even got to see their hand again post twister and it wasn't there.
It was exiled to elite spellbinder
@@LSVargas Oh yeah you right
Emrakul was exiled by spellbinder so the opponent still had it.
order like a peasant...lmao
Recorded today; this sizing thingy is since today 😎
Since yesterday actually...after the update..
Could you please link the cube list ?
that mana thithe
Wait… No blightsteel?
I thought the same thing, I think LSV just doesn't care for it or maybe infect in general
The man just highly underrates it
Easy blightsteel for me too
LSV has always *hated* blightsteel, he really dislikes cards that his controlling decks are strong against (it's obviously quite weak to bounce or exile). It's true that it's not the best tinker target possible but it's certainly in the top 5, so I think he underrates it a bit. It's in the same category as mind twist for me: cards that people generally overrate but LSV underrates. At that point though, he really wasn't doing the artifact stuff, and fitting in blightsteel and tinker means an additional 6 cards or so at least, so it wasn't on his radar.
Given the rest of the pack though, I think it warranted a pick. At the very least you have it as a great sideboard plan against decks that are soft to it or where your control plan isn't great (i.e. vs. brain freeze decks).
@@brianh5844 It is the best tinker target. 100% in a deck with so much counter magic and free counter magic, a tutor to find it, plenty of signets and even a mox for the random turn 2 blightsteel. That was just bad in general and I'd like to hear LSV's reasoning or if he just completely missed that it was in the pack.
But…. Blightsteel…
Second opponent wow. Talk about throwing the game away. Just cast the emrakul man!
That's why I don't like the vintage leagues very much. Opponents are really weak.
coulda tapped boros signet to play fractured to keep force spike and mana leak up on that turn. woulda won game. 1h:25min
Read phyrexian revolver please
Nope, signet doesn't work, cause it was prohibited by the Revoker.
@@LSVargas my bad forgot about revoker
@@LSVargas Bro, you have to deal with like every commenter trying to prove your game actions wrong, often when they are scrubs. How in the world do you deal with the constant deluge of terrible 'Um, actually...'
Something must be wrong with me, because all the swallowing sounds you make have been bugging me everytime I watch your videos... Hmm.
Cards are ordered like a peasant, literally unwatchable.
You must be trying to take Tinker from every position at least once and not play it: P1p1, p1p2... How do you take Marsh Flats over signet, right after taking Tinker? Just stop taking Tinker. You're not going to have 5 Moxen and Mana Crypt. If you pass the cheap artifacts pack 1, it's over. Nothing pack two, no Tolarian Academy, etc...
That not tapping signet at 1:24 costing a game 🫤
PLEASE nerf blue and remove countermagic from the game! It is obviously overpowered and anti-fun.
Incorrect. It is the most fun!
On a real note, though. MtG used to be a game about interaction, especially with instants and sorceries. They realized it limited the appeal to new and/or amateur players, so they started watering down that aspect of the game. If you hate countermagic and control, just play any version of this game from like 2015 (maybe?) on. Look at the modern vintage cube. Everything is hyper-efficient threats that countermagic really doesn't stand up too well against. Your version of magic exists. In fact, it's the current face of the game.
@ passing every turn with a counterspell up is not “interactive” at all. nerf blue and remove counter-magic from the game. Thank you for your time.
@@Gobblesthepatient It's the definition of interactive. You are literally acting when your opponent acts. There is nothing more interactive. Plus, you also have all kinds of tough choices to make, when to tap out, when to go for it vs. lay back and wait. The tough decision of what to counter and what to let pass. It's incredibly fun.
You just sound really sour for some reason. Instead of crying about it and saying remove counterspells from the game, why don't you learn to enjoy the cat and mouse? Counterspells are also the only thing keeping combo from running rampant and the game becoming completely degenerate. They are incredibly necessary for keeping the game balanced.
@@bradleylovej Everything you said is false. Remove countermagic from the game and nerf blue please! Spread the good message! Peace and love!
@Gobblesthepatient Haha, good argument bud. You might as well have said, "No, you!"