There were significant numbers of companies trying to get market share for their oils, as the chainsaw industry and 2 cycle market expanded very quickly from the mid 50,s onward. Makes collecting interesting.
Thanks very much for the informative discussion and sharing of your knowledge Sir. It's content like this that makes scrolling through our yt subs worthwhile for us saw buffs.
Saber is good stuff for modern saws, but not at 100-1. I have seen some say they use 70-1, but again in modern saws. The problem with using full synthetic in vintage saws is that they have bigger clearances between the piston and bore, and synthetic oil molecules are all the same size, and have a tendency to blow past the rings causing a seizure. This info was given to me by two different chemical engineers. One worked for amsoil, the other for pennzoil. When synthetics first came out, the saw shops were real busy rebuilding top ends on the saws as a result. I have used partial synthetic in my saws for over 45 years with no top end failures. Since the oil molecules are not all the same size, the oil will fill in the wide and low spots in the bore, and the mineral oil and synthetic molecules are mixed, so you have the best lubrication. My real early saws get 20-1, mid 60's saws get 24-1, later saws get 32-1, and for real light cutting, 40-1. The oil I have used since starting with using chainsaws in 1980, is no longer made, so I have been using ECHO RED ARMOR oil. It has excellent film strength, burns real clean, and removes carbon and ash.
@@mrobsoletesvintagehomestea9156 Thanks for details. I purchased a few litres of Makita 2 cycle oil. But will use that on newer saws. I have a swag of 1960's McCullochs, Homelite and I.E.L Pioneers which are from late 1950's I think. Also a few Pioneers from 1970's. Due to cost of living people are quitting toys. Here in New Zealand the Stihl branded oil is actually blended n bottled by Castrol, it is a beautiful teal Blue color.
Stihl branded full synthetic oil is made by Castrol here in the states as well. Don't use it in your old saws. If you run 40-1 or less, you will have an excess amount of carbon and ash build up. The same goes for amsoil. Watch some video's by Richard Flagg, a pro saw repairman, and he shows saws that are torn down that have failed from using the Stihl oil and details out why they failed.
Back in the 70s we ran our saws on castrol R it had a unique smell when running. It was mineral based and it gummed up the carb if you left it for a long period of time with fuel in it. Great video
The Castrol R is made with castor bean oil It was used because it would flow to a hot spot in a cylinder to keep it from seizing, but it doesnt burn very clean, separates in the gas if it sits for a while, and when the fuel evaporates, it leaves that gummy mess behind.
Castrol R is derived from Castor bean oil. It has the unique feature is that it flows to a hot spot, where mineral oil doesnt. It would separate out of the gas if it sat very long. It also doesnt burn that clean either. We now have synthetics that are better, but dont work well in vintage 2 strokes. Partial synthetic is the way to go.
I don't use injector 2 stroke oil. For years I have used the 40 weight based 2 stroke oils, mostly Bardahl VBA, which is no longer available. I have started using Echo Red Armor oil in some of my newer, but still vintage saws and equipment. This oil has a very high film strength and has been a good replacement for most of my applications. I still have a small stash of Bardahl and some really old Castrol oils that I use in my oldest equipment and antique outboard motors. I have never experienced a lubricating engine failure when using these oils. The only lubricating failures I have experienced were a few of my chainsaws, using Stihl and Husky oils.
@mrobsoletesvintagehomestea9156 I just bought klotz benol race oil,,has great numbers,,but on back I read not to use under 32 degree Temps! Wtf,, plus cause it's bean oil it's bio degratable,, hmmm guess I'll have to cans mixed one for the smell,, and one for work, echo oil
Castor based oils have a tendency to separate from the gas in certain circumstances. The main reason I don't use castor based oils is that they don't burn clean and if stored for long times, leave deposits in the carb and fuel system.
Great video man! Your right about them ol saws liking 20-1, my garlic gas is a blend of Hi test fuel and Echo power blend gold at a 20-1 ratio, works great!!!
Ok this sounds nuts. I buy the Super Teck two cycle oil at Wal mart. then I go to the Murphy and get the cheapest corn gas. I put two gallons in a can and ass a quart of the super tech. then add two more gallons of ethanol gas. then I add a pint of distilled water and shake that up really good. Go home and let that settle for a day or so, Then I careful to not let my hose touch the bottom siphon out 3 gallonsfor my chainsaws. yhe last gallon is put in my tractor. Its now blue colored. I can view the fuel in the glass settlement bulb. when it gets almost full of clear I remove the bulb and dump it out. I use that 16 to 1 mix in every saw new or old. and it works very well for me. All storage tanks at gas stations get condensation.If you buy the non ethanol you dont have anything to absorb the water. What in doing is removing the ethanol by adding the distilled water.
Ironhorse sez he uses 40:1 in all his newer saws. He said he can see the difference between 40:1 and 50:1 when he breaks saws down. I run 40:1 in all my saws now.
I use Mobil one synthetic high mileage. Burns clean, don't clog screens, piston always looks like brand new, and it has a nice wet film of oil all the time. Haven't hurt one yet.
I love your videos, top quality information with no BS. Maybe you could ask whoever’s doing your camera work, to get in a little closer sometimes - woulda loved to see those cans in more detail! Thanks so much for your time in producing these videos!
Thanks for the nice comment. This new camera we have is challenging to get the best shots. You will notice that the stripes on my shirt are wavering, and when we tried some close up shots the camera would lose focus for a short time. We are still learning, and hope to improve our videos. I should do a video on collecting petroliana and how it ads a dimension to collecting engines
Interesting video. A topic I think about a lot...what brand oil and what ratio should I use. I’ve always been a 40:1 fan in vintage snowmobiles and some of my saws are 40:1 from the factory. I figured the newer synthetic oils might be better than old oil so maybe one could use 40:1 in 32:1 applications. You use Yamalube and an oil I’ve been running is Mystik semi synthetic called “Sea and snow”. Supposedly can be used in both water craft and snowmobiles,chainsaws etc. I’ve heard that Yamalube is Mystik oil but can not verify that. I used it at 40:1 in my saws and they ran good but I didn’t like the oily residue in the exhaust. Real sticky. So being Canadian and since hardly anything is built here anymore I like to support products made here when I can so I tried Klondike oil which is actually made Canadian oil but refined in the USA. Anyway same thing oily sticky exhaust. I used to be a Jonsered dealer years ago and the first saw I sold was a CS2137 which was actually a Poulan. Anyway the guy I sold it to bought a bunch of Jonsered two-stroke oil and used that mostly he said but a couple years ago he started using that true fuel premix stuff at 50:1. The saw calls for 40:1. So the saw was almost 25 years old and finally needed a carb kit and lines etc so he brought it to me and when I pulled the exhaust the muffler and spark arrestor were very clean and dry and a nice chocolate/tan colour. The piston looked like new. I’m thinking I need to experiment with that stuff and see if it’s that fuel/oil or if its more to do with 50:1. Great video sorry for the long winded post. Lol
Each oil has it's advantages and disadvantages. I have used Yamalube partial synthetic in my saws, but it does leave an oily residue. A lot of local loggers use it in their Stihls and Husky's with good results and they like the low cost compared to others. The main oil I use is Bardahl VBA, but it hasn't been made for a very long time. I bought out a warehouse when I heard they were not selling it in the US anymore. Still have some left, but will eventually run out. I never had any seizures with it or carbon, and had the nice tan coating on the piston crown. I have had newer Husky's and Stihl's, and used their oils for warranty purposes, but the saws just wore or blew up running at 50 to 1. Any oil will work to a degree, but old saws at 50 to 1 will eventually fail in hot weather or hard work. My little saws I run at 20 to 1, the mid size saws I run at 32 to1, and my big saws I generally run at 24 to 1. These are all vintage saws, as I dont have any modern saws anymore. I will run more or less oil in them at times depending on how heavy the work load is or high temperatures. The oils you have mentioned had been recommended to me, but are not available in my area, so I have never used them. The Echo Red Armor has been recommended by pro's and home users quite a few times. So I am going to use it in selected saws over the spring and summer and make a judgement on it then.
I had filled my pm610 with my standard 50:1 but added an extra half of an ounce of Red Armor to its tank to bring it up to about a 20:1 mix, as you recommend. I will see how it does on this mix. I may make up a gallon mix for it at 20:1. I know I need a muffler for it. It’s current one has disappeared with just a few remnants left. I am going to put a 20 inch bar on it when I can find one. This saw has lots of compression.and a chain break that does not work, correctly.
It will be interesting to hear what you think of the McBrick once you get it running and cutting. We dont have much hardwood around here, but some semi hardwood and soft wood mostly and I like to run a 24" bar. The saw has plenty of power to run that length bar. I have never seen a 610 where the muffler rotted off, very unusual. Most of my McBricks dont have the chain brake on them, but it should be very easy to fix the one you have if you like using them.
Quite a lot of pro wood cutters are using the Echo Red Armor 2 cycle oil with great results. It is a partial synthetic like I use in my old saws, and if I had modern saws, that is what I would use. I will be trying some in my old saws soon. Stihl and Husky oils are not very good and wouldnt use them in any saws new or old. Thanks again for watching.
i have a 360 homelite automatic and i was wanting to know what kind of mix gas i need to use fuel cap is red next to bar oil cap gas cap is on left side on top
The factory recommended 32-1 oil-gas mix, and that is what I would use. Don't use full synthetic oil in the saw though. I am starting to use ECHO Red Armor oil, and they also have another oil that doesn't have the carbon removal additive. They are the best modern oils I have used, and many pro loggers prefer it to others. Use premium gas with no alcohol for best results.
I’ve Got a Couple 4 Packs of The Canned Lawnboy Oil 👌🏼👌🏼👌🏼😀👍🏼 And a Few Cans Of Citco Red 2 Cycle Oils and Some Old 1960’s Stihl 30weight 2cycle Oil 16:1
I never contemplated the big differences in the oils and the effects it would have on some of these older saws. Sincere thank you for sharing your knowledge. Question: Bar oil, any wisdom to share??
Most bar oils work OK. The Stihl and Husky bar oils are quite thin and dont work well in my old saws. The bar oils I use are from tractor supply-nice thick oil and cheap, and the other is a private brand made for saw dealers in the PNW, and again a heavier oil.
I havent used klotz for years. I tried it in my racing motorcycles a long time ago, and found it not to burn very clean. The smell is from the castor bean oil. They make a number of different oils now that were not available in the past. If you are running old saws, I wouldnt use it, and the full synthetic they sell , I wouldnt use it either for the reasons I talk about in the video. I dont know of any pro logger that ever used it either.
I'll have to check out the channel you suggested. My main oil of choice for my MS251 is AmsOil Saber, so I'll have to see if it is on the failure list. If it is I'll try something different, but most of the time I'll just buy a small metal tin of Tru-Fuel at 40:1 if I'm not using my saw a lot. It keeps for a long time since it's fully sealed and the fuel is ethanol-free. Also, I don't know how it compares to older castor based oils but I've been looking at Klotz BeNol to run in my YZ 465 when I eventually rebuild it. I've read a lot of positives on it with people saying it burns better than older oils. Again, just stuff I read. I don't know if modern versions have the same problems. As for TC-W3, I read an older post on an arborist forum a while back from someone asking if it was safe to use in their saw and a lot of people on there said no. It's not safe to use in even modern saws. The reason they gave was because it's formulated for water-cooled engines and all chainsaws be them new or old are all air-cooled so TC-W3 supposedly makes saws run hot. Does that sound like a viable reason? I have a few gallons of TC-W3 I bought for cheap from our local Gander Outdoors when they went out of business a few years ago. But I only ever used it as a cheap upper cylinder lubricant in my old pickup. Which it helped a lot with, the truck ran smoother with it. :)
Amsoil has a high ash content from the info I have seen on it, so personally I wouldn't use it. Castor based oils just dont burn as clean as others I have found. In my vintage air cooled dirt bikes I run Golden Spectro partial synthetic, and have used it in my old saws at times, and have never had a lubricity failure, such as a seizure or scoring. I have been testing the ECHO Red Armor 2 cycle oil lately in some of the saws, and so far am impressed with the performance and clean burning. It has also been recommended by many pro loggers. Don't use TCW rated oils in your saws, as they are designed for cooler running since they are water cooled, and most of the time run at steady throttle settings, so the oil doesn't have to be all that good. I dont run full synthetic oil in any of my power equipment, and have never had a failure.
@@mrobsoletesvintagehomestea9156 I'll have to look around and see what I find. I'll give the Echo oil a try as there's an Echo dealer 6 miles from my house. But I will need to find something to run in the McCulloch 1-40 I just got. I don't want to burn it up. My dirt bike is currently a basket case project so it's already apart. But once it's rebuilt I'll need a good oil to run in it. So I'll see what there is that's formulated for vintage equipment. I'd like to stick with something I can pick up locally if possible. The Golden Spectro oil is not something I've ever seen sold around here. As for TC-W3, I don't run it in my saw. It was only bought as cheap upper cylinder lubricant for my previous truck. Last questions: What about a 2-stroke oil that is aimed toward high performance racing purposes? If there are some I can run safely in my 1-40 and my dirt bike once it's rebuilt I have no problem ordering it. Would something with a high zinc content in it help like it does for flat tappet cams? And could I get away with using a high octane fuel that has a little bit of lead in it or would that cause too much fouling? I've ran it in an atv in the past a few times and had no problems. Regardless of price, oil is cheap, equipment is not. So I don't mind paying a little bit for it. :)
I would run the ECHO Red Armor in the McCulloch at 40 to1 if you are not doing any heavy work with it, but if you do, run 32 to 1. I dont know if any of the two stroke oils have zinc in them, and the lead substitute is for 4 strokes to protect the valves, so not needed in 2 strokes. Golden Spectro can be purchased at Rocky Mountain ATV on line.. It is expensive, but worth it.@@Slane583
I like to use 16 to 1 most of the time. Because of heavy duty use. I always use quality oils that are two stroke mixing oils. I have already used straight 30 weight non-detergent oil mixed with two stroke oil just to be safe. Never had a problem. Synthetic oil I will pass on, they are rough on the gaskets and seals. Most manuals I have read say to use good quality 30 weight non-detergent oil well mixed before putting into the fuel tank. Done that also and never really had any issue with carbon at all. That is my two cents Mr. Obsoletes Vintage Homesteading.
A lot of vintage saws I have picked up over the years usually had a fair amount of carbon in them from using just motor oil, so I never have used it once I cleaned them out. I have used a number of 2 stroke oils over the years, some with excellent results, and others not so much. In my McCulloch's I used their oil till it wasn't available anymore, and used Bardahl VBA for almost all my 2 strokes, and almost exclusively in my chainsaws since. By the color, smell and amount of smoke when using, I am willing to bet that they were one and the same. I have never had a seizure or carbon problem with either of them, but neither are available any longer, and I have just a limited supply left. I have been experimenting with the ECHO RED ARMOR oil in some of my equipment, and so far it is excellent. I would run at least 20-1 in your equipment, as too much oil makes them run hot.
@@mrobsoletesvintagehomestea9156 I can agree with you on all what you have said. I use two-cycle oil made by castor oil. Either it is 30 or 40 weight oil, as I do not remember right now. Did very little wood cutting this winter. My neighbor uses castor oil two cycle mixed with Wolf's head straight non-detergent motor oil, half and half mix of both oil's. His mix is 16:1 to 20:1 range. He said he has no buildup of carbon or ash. That was a problem with straight 30 weight oil. My saw's are clean for the most part when I checked with a little bit of residue. The engine has way more power at 20:1 is so true. I prefer the extra oil to keep the engine from running so high an RPM. Thanks for the total explanation Mr. Obsoletes Vintage Homesteading.
@@mrobsoletesvintagehomestea9156 Sorry one more thing. Always shake your saw at least 30 seconds when using a saw that was seating a long time as the manual states. Thank you Sir for your time and channel giving honest information with substance. A trate not really found on many channels. Peace vf
It is always good to shake two stroke mix, whether in a saw that has been sitting or in your gas can. Castor based oils separate from gas if stored for a while, so it is very important to give them the ol shakeroo.@@victoryfirst2878
Question- what is the best modern oil for the rotary ? I will be reviving the old Evinrude after 20 years of sitting. I remember grandpa being very particular about running the rotary oil! Stihl oil- have been running that in my saw because it was required for the 2 year warranty. Guess it has dye or a tracer in. They have some way to tell wether you used it or not. Random story- I have my grandpas old 2 stroke golf cart, which smoked like hell (smelt terrible, like it’s burning down) and got really hot when you ran it hard. I figured it was toast (does need a rebuild) so I just keep running the heck out of. I dumped my snowmobile oil in which is Amsoil. And I’ll be dipped if didn’t start running cooler and stop smoking. 🤷🏻♂️
I have a small stash of Evinrude Rotary oil that I use in my my two rotaries. When I run out I will run the Golden Spectro partial synthetic or I am going to do some testing of the Echo Red Armor oil, which is also a partial synthetic and use it if it is as good as many have recommended. I dont run my rotaries much, as they run real hot, and should only be run in super cold conditions, which we dont have very often here. The old golf cart is probably coked up from slow running and brand X oils. I would suggest cleaning the exhaust port and cleaning the muffler. I clean out old two stroke mufflers by filling a big tub with water and Tide detergent, then bring it up to a boil for several hours, and almost all the carbon comes out. Then when cool , tap with a plastic hammer, and blow out with compressed air. Running the cart wide open is blowing out the looser carbon, thus making it breathe better. It is possible that the Amsoil is helping to get rid of the carbon. The Red Armor oil does it. I have ordered some Red Armor and am going to do some testing of it, should be interesting.
@@mrobsoletesvintagehomestea9156 I wouldn’t be surprised if find a stash of the rotary oil yet as we are going through the old garages. Never heard of the golden spectro probably have to order it. As far as the cart goes, whenever I tear into it, it will be a for a rebuild. Upper end and crank seals at a minimum. Your theory makes sense, since I know he was paranoid about the oil injection failing and added oil to fuel as insurance as well. And it just puttered around the resort at the fishing hole. It’s original a 90ish ez go with a 2 stroke 3PG motor. I may just push it until it quits 😂 Thanks for the oil info 👍
Golden Spectro isnt what you will find except at a motorcycle store, or order it from someone like Rocky Mountain ATV. I have used it in my vintage dirt and racing bikes with great success. My boys were using some generic 2 cycle oil in our old Hodaka dirt bikes until I found out and made them start using the Spectro.The bikes start easier when cold, and the smooth clean running with the Spectro is a noticeable improvement, plus no carbon. 88888888965@@crazydave4455
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According to Amsoil, their oil is high ash in thicker mixtures. What type of saw are you running? Dont use full synthetics in vintage saws, as I outlined in the video.
@@mrobsoletesvintagehomestea9156I am looking for that magic number of ratios. I am working on old Homelite and McCullough saws mostly. Strictly for shows.
I changed the cylinder on my MS 460 to change the cylinder on it to a Nikasil coated cylinder earlier this year. It had run nothing but Red Armor at 50:1. When I took the cylinder off it was coated with Red Armor, as were the connecting Rod and bearings. I was impressed.. I agree about Stihl Ultra - filthy crap. The problem, today, is carbon build up with all the emission crap that EPA has put on our saws. Blocked over spark arrester screens will stop a saw quicker than just about anything else. I run Bosch WSR6 F spark plugs in most of my saws because they do not die as fast as NGK, BPMR 7A do. My Big Stihl saws have to be sloppy rich at startup for me to be able to crank them, otherwise they pop and try to drag me back into the recoil starter. It is hell to get old, isn’t it.
@@mrobsoletesvintagehomestea9156 afterI cleaned the spark arrester screen on my ms 241, I pulled the screens from the other saws that I have that have them. These saws had run more than the 241, but their screens were relatively clean. I burned them clean and put them back in. I had to soak the muffler off my 241 for thirty minutes before I could even get its screen off.. I then burned it off with my LP torch and put it back in. I ran fine, afterwards. I am still not a proponent of M-tronic saws. It is partially my fault, I do not use the MS 241, like I should. It is just a little to small for most of the stuff that I cut. I will try to use it more. It ought to handle limbing pretty good. It is a nice little,light saw but I do not have a need for little saws all that often. I will not run any two cycle oil that is not JASO FD certified, anymore. It gives better lubricate and less smoke than other oils. I will tell you this. I ran my ms 360 at idle for 15 minutes a few weeks ago and pulled the spark plug a few days later to put a winter/summer shutter on it. In doing so, I had to pull the plug. It was a beautiful chocolate brown in color. The 360 has had a bunch of Red Armor run through it because it is my favorite big saw. It does not have a spark arrester screen on it. It has a dual port muffler.
I recently saw a video where they ran the Red Armor oil in it. The Red Armor claims to remove carbon, so they did a test on a power blower. Well it actually cleaned the exhaust screen after several tanks of fuel and started to remove the carbon on the piston. I might have to try some. @@johnclarke6647
@@mrobsoletesvintagehomestea9156 it probably would have cleaned the spark arrester screen in my ms 241 had I been able to start the sucker, but I beat it to it. I cleaned it myself. It was flat frozen into the muffler. I was afraid I would break it getting it out, but didn’t. I pried it up with a small screwdriver and pulled it out with a pair of needle nose pliers. It was blocked solid.
@@mrobsoletesvintagehomestea9156 I can tell you it puked some of that black Ultra crap out for a little bit and then it cleaned up the mufflers on my other saws. When I put a new cylinder on my ms 460, I disassembled it’s muffler and cleaned it up to get out all the black crap from the Stihl Ultra and it has stayed clean, since. All my saws used to puke that black crap out unless I ran them wide open, but now they do not. When I built my ms 660 three years ago it used to puke black crap out so bad it looked like someone with a runny nose. The muffler side is now clean as a button. I started running Red Armor in January.
Hey Mr. Obsolete...or others. I got my hand on a Mcculloch 10-10. Nevere have any experience or knowledge about the type machine...I found it among a barn find I did in Norway. Curent I am in Sweden with the machine. Aspen is swedish gasoline for chain saws. I use that with as i understand...good experience on allot of saws i have and dealer here said it is the best. But for this old Pro- Mac Mcculloch 10-10...is Aspen gasoline...premixed for two stroke engines...too modern to recommend ? Anyone have som expertice advice? It is modell 600014F whatever that indicates or means. I heard they made some 40 different types, 10 mccullochs. series. I belive this 10-10 is a high value founding i did. I seen some from enthisiast Bucking Billy Ray Smith.. I am very impressed of you knowledge here...Mr. Obsolete. Thx for sharing all you knowledge.... Too bad...all that good knowledge is too forgotten and maybe...or for sure ...not respected and valued enough ...by far. It is like western humans ignore or do not fikus enough on their heritage and culture. But Mr. Osolete is almost bigger thgan life walking talking knowledge of an important part of our past and the fruits of handy useful patens and works etc. there in. Extremely apreciated and wow how i am impressed. Almost like we all have a school here with our own free of charge...museum director...teaching us he he ! :-)
The ASPEN oil is a full synthetic blend intended for modern saws. Never use a full synthetic oil in old saws, but use partial synthetic. The 10-10s were designed to run at 40 to 1 gas oil mix. That is fine for most uses, but if you intend to do some heavy duty cutting, I would use 32-1. You will have to look for some partial synthetic 2 stroke oil. If ECHO products are sold there, their RED ARMOR oil is what you need. Thanks for the kind comments.
@@mrobsoletesvintagehomestea9156 Very thankful. You are making an online school there ! :-). Ok...but than...after getting partial syntetic two stroke oil...than what. Pump gasoline ? Which type ? and are not the pump gasolin short lived for storage. I have heard the Aspen has capacity to be stored uptil 6 years...but i would never trust that...but a couple of years should satisfy the most peoples need and use. For old saws and equipment...you better mix yourself and use pump gasoline ? Getting the perfect two stroke oil too of course. I be looking for Red Armor thanks ! .-). Never hade a mcculloch 10-10 or that big mcculloch before...only 320 mini mac. I guess i have used Aspen on every saw... but understand...not the best for oldies/ vintage. But so far so good. I am amateur...and the Stihl dealer here in Sweden of course said Aspen ( swedish gasoline ). is the best in the world he he I ofcourse been more focused on old Jonsered and Partners...mostly from the eightees and not extreme vintage...but have no bad experience with those saws so far...using only Aspen. It is very convinient though for us more uneducated in the big wrld of gasoline and oil...but as I understand maight be hazardiouse/ hazard. What about my 1974 Gilson and other...Tillers. Should they too not have modern four stroke Aspen gasoline ? No bad experiences so far on them eighter...and pleasant little smoke for the user :-) ( 5HP Brigg & Stratton horizontal shaft )
I use high octane gas with no alcohol in it in all my equipment. I use Marvel Mystery oil at about 5% to gas in my old 4 stroke equipment, which keeps the valves lubed .Not sure if you have it available in Sweden, but a small amount of 2 cycle oil also works. @@motordiverse1276
If you are WFO, Stihl is ok. I never had any mechanical problems due to Stihl Ultra but it is filthy, otherwise. If you let a saw idle it spits black crap, everywhere. I have never seen a spark plug running Stihl Ultra that has a chocolate brown insulator. It is always dark no matter how you run it. My Husqvarna 25B blower I run WFO most of the time and it’s insulator is always dark with Ultra but not with Red Armor. Ultra just has to much ash in it. It completely block over the spark arrester screen on my ms 241 CM and that should not happen on a computer controlled saw. The inside of its muffler was completely covered with black carbon ash. I cleaned it out as best I could and hope red Armor will do the rest. I burned all the carbon off it’s spark arrestor. It cranks and runs fine, now.
Modern saws have a chance at 100 to one, but a hot day, a dull chain and working the saw hard will guarantee a top end failure. My two buddies who were pro saw mechanics, really liked all the work they got from people using these oil mixtures.
Sir I really like your channel but I have to disagree I homestead in Alaska and have been running Stihl Ultra in my 070 lightning for years at 50:1. Oil technology has came so far. Amsoil claims you can run 100:1 even in vintage power equipment . Synthetic oils in my option are the only way to go.
The problem with using motor oil in your saws is that it will leave a lot of carbon in the port and muffler, and the additives that they use in the oils are not designed for 2 stroke engines and can become abrasive. The real old saws just used plain old oil with no additives. When automotive needs became more demanding, zinc was one of the first additives that was used, and of course later more and more additives were used as auto engines became more sophisticated. I suggest you use a partial synthetic 2 stroke oil at 32-1 for heavy use, or 40-1 for firewood cutting and lighter work. Yamalube is good for average use and is not that expensive. I will be testing Echo Red Armor 2 stroke oil soon, too see if it is as good as many say. Golden Spectro is what I also use with excellent results.
@@mrobsoletesvintagehomestea9156 thank you for your reply! I’ll heed your advice. My old McCullochs are workhorses. I forgot they changed the formula. Thank you again. I look forward to the review of the Echo oil!
You actually use what you can get. I ran an oil named StsMix for years at 40:1 with then our 92 octane Regular gas. I had to get my two cycle oil at Forestry Supply in Fitzgerald, GA. It cost me about $3 a six pack. It was a good two cycle oil for the time frame - 1980’s to 2000. I poured in one can and 2.5 gallons of gas. I ran mostly Poulan equipment and some of my early saws ran 24:1 but my later saws all ran 40;1. All of my saws were all ball bearing saws, dealers called them Pro saws in those days. I run 50:1 today with Echo Red Armor in everything. My oldest saw is my Poulan Super 25, Deluxe Automatic and it runs 50:1 with no problems.
I did a little research on the Red Armor oil, and find it is partial synthetic like I have used forever. I am going to get some and compare it to the oils I am now using. Should be interesting.
I would like to know that too because my favorite small engine shop carries echo red armor. I run a couple of homelites- xl 12 and sxl auto- along with modern stihls and older stihl 041fb and O8S, up to ms 391. I know I don't like stihl oil because of excessively stinky and smoky exaust fumes. Note in ohio I can't get alcohol free fuel unless I buy turbo blue at an oil company.
Testing the Red Armor oil will be interesting, as quite a few have shown interest as to what the results will be. Looks like you have a nice collection of saws !@@wesleycallison2079
@@mrobsoletesvintagehomestea9156 well not all are runners yet! I also have a Mcholoch I-43, 4 David Bradley 360s, a 510evl echo. O45 stihl, a titan sportsman, a Poulan sandcast, and others. I could probably go crazy trying to keep them all running! And maybe broke also. Oh well it's fun for me.
Nice collection ! On the early saws, I pick out 2 to3 of them, give them a full service, take them out for work several times a year, then drain all the fuel, clean the carb, oil the bore and put them away. That way, I can just fuel them up, and they are ready to go.@@wesleycallison2079
Love the Chainsaw running in the background!
Neighbors getting even with me for running my saws so much !
Sir, u have such a cool collection of stuff, i love all ur videos so informative.
Thanks for watching
Lots of good info there. Thanks Mr. Obsolete👍
Thanks for watching
Wow! So many different Oils and ratios!
There were significant numbers of companies trying to get market share for their oils, as the chainsaw industry and 2 cycle market expanded very quickly from the mid 50,s onward. Makes collecting interesting.
@@mrobsoletesvintagehomestea9156 For sure!
Thanks very much for the informative discussion and sharing of your knowledge Sir.
It's content like this that makes scrolling through our yt subs worthwhile for us saw buffs.
Thank you for the nice comment and watching.
Love the old Cans!👍👍
The old cans are a nice addition to collecting, and displaying them with old motors at the shows draw a lot of interest as well.
I was just looking for info about this. Thank you!
Thanks for watching
Any views on Amsoil Saber 100-1?. I'm hoping to use it on all my 1950 to 1970's saws.
Apparently its very highly regarded.
Saber is good stuff for modern saws, but not at 100-1. I have seen some say they use 70-1, but again in modern saws. The problem with using full synthetic in vintage saws is that they have bigger clearances between the piston and bore, and synthetic oil molecules are all the same size, and have a tendency to blow past the rings causing a seizure. This info was given to me by two different chemical engineers. One worked for amsoil, the other for pennzoil. When synthetics first came out, the saw shops were real busy rebuilding top ends on the saws as a result. I have used partial synthetic in my saws for over 45 years with no top end failures. Since the oil molecules are not all the same size, the oil will fill in the wide and low spots in the bore, and the mineral oil and synthetic molecules are mixed, so you have the best lubrication. My real early saws get 20-1, mid 60's saws get 24-1, later saws get 32-1, and for real light cutting, 40-1. The oil I have used since starting with using chainsaws in 1980, is no longer made, so I have been using ECHO RED ARMOR oil. It has excellent film strength, burns real clean, and removes carbon and ash.
@@mrobsoletesvintagehomestea9156 Thanks for details. I purchased a few litres of Makita 2 cycle oil. But will use that on newer saws. I have a swag of 1960's McCullochs, Homelite and I.E.L Pioneers which are from late 1950's I think. Also a few Pioneers from 1970's. Due to cost of living people are quitting toys.
Here in New Zealand the Stihl branded oil is actually blended n bottled by Castrol, it is a beautiful teal Blue color.
Stihl branded full synthetic oil is made by Castrol here in the states as well. Don't use it in your old saws. If you run 40-1 or less, you will have an excess amount of carbon and ash build up. The same goes for amsoil. Watch some video's by Richard Flagg, a pro saw repairman, and he shows saws that are torn down that have failed from using the Stihl oil and details out why they failed.
Amsoil is great at 50:1 and 40:1. Our Amsoil dealer does not recommend the 100:1 ratio.
Back in the 70s we ran our saws on castrol R it had a unique smell when running. It was mineral based and it gummed up the carb if you left it for a long period of time with fuel in it. Great video
The Castrol R is made with castor bean oil It was used because it would flow to a hot spot in a cylinder to keep it from seizing, but it doesnt burn very clean, separates in the gas if it sits for a while, and when the fuel evaporates, it leaves that gummy mess behind.
Castrol R is derived from Castor bean oil. It has the unique feature is that it flows to a hot spot, where mineral oil doesnt. It would separate out of the gas if it sat very long. It also doesnt burn that clean either. We now have synthetics that are better, but dont work well in vintage 2 strokes. Partial synthetic is the way to go.
Big thing is make sure u dont use injector oil, and most times u wont have issues
I don't use injector 2 stroke oil. For years I have used the 40 weight based 2 stroke oils, mostly Bardahl VBA, which is no longer available. I have started using Echo Red Armor oil in some of my newer, but still vintage saws and equipment. This oil has a very high film strength and has been a good replacement for most of my applications. I still have a small stash of Bardahl and some really old Castrol oils that I use in my oldest equipment and antique outboard motors. I have never experienced a lubricating engine failure when using these oils. The only lubricating failures I have experienced were a few of my chainsaws, using Stihl and Husky oils.
@mrobsoletesvintagehomestea9156 I just bought klotz benol race oil,,has great numbers,,but on back I read not to use under 32 degree Temps! Wtf,, plus cause it's bean oil it's bio degratable,, hmmm guess I'll have to cans mixed one for the smell,, and one for work, echo oil
Castor based oils have a tendency to separate from the gas in certain circumstances. The main reason I don't use castor based oils is that they don't burn clean and if stored for long times, leave deposits in the carb and fuel system.
Great video man! Your right about them ol saws liking 20-1, my garlic gas is a blend of Hi test fuel and Echo power blend gold at a 20-1 ratio, works great!!!
Ok this sounds nuts. I buy the Super Teck two cycle oil at Wal mart. then I go to the Murphy and get the cheapest corn gas. I put two gallons in a can and ass a quart of the super tech. then add two more gallons of ethanol gas. then I add a pint of distilled water and shake that up really good. Go home and let that settle for a day or so, Then I careful to not let my hose touch the bottom siphon out 3 gallonsfor my chainsaws. yhe last gallon is put in my tractor. Its now blue colored. I can view the fuel in the glass settlement bulb. when it gets almost full of clear I remove the bulb and dump it out. I use that 16 to 1 mix in every saw new or old. and it works very well for me. All storage tanks at gas stations get condensation.If you buy the non ethanol you dont have anything to absorb the water. What in doing is removing the ethanol by adding the distilled water.
thanks for the good oil on that one
Thanks for the comment and watching the video.
Ironhorse sez he uses 40:1 in all his newer saws. He said he can see the difference between 40:1 and 50:1 when he breaks saws down. I run 40:1 in all my saws now.
50 to 1 just isnt enough oil. When repairing saws that use that ratio, they always have more wear than ones that have used more oil.
I use Mobil one synthetic high mileage. Burns clean, don't clog screens, piston always looks like brand new, and it has a nice wet film of oil all the time. Haven't hurt one yet.
Never heard of using synthetic car oil in a saw before, very unusual !
@@mrobsoletesvintagehomestea9156 Been doing it for 20 years.
I love your videos, top quality information with no BS. Maybe you could ask whoever’s doing your camera work, to get in a little closer sometimes - woulda loved to see those cans in more detail! Thanks so much for your time in producing these videos!
Thanks for the nice comment. This new camera we have is challenging to get the best shots. You will notice that the stripes on my shirt are wavering, and when we tried some close up shots the camera would lose focus for a short time. We are still learning, and hope to improve our videos. I should do a video on collecting petroliana and how it ads a dimension to collecting engines
@@mrobsoletesvintagehomestea9156 Keep doing what you are doing, we appreciate you sharing your knowledge, thank you!
Interesting video. A topic I think about a lot...what brand oil and what ratio should I use.
I’ve always been a 40:1 fan in vintage snowmobiles and some of my saws are 40:1 from the factory.
I figured the newer synthetic oils might be better than old oil so maybe one could use 40:1 in 32:1 applications.
You use Yamalube and an oil I’ve been running is Mystik semi synthetic called “Sea and snow”.
Supposedly can be used in both water craft and snowmobiles,chainsaws etc.
I’ve heard that Yamalube is Mystik oil but can not verify that.
I used it at 40:1 in my saws and they ran good but I didn’t like the oily residue in the exhaust. Real sticky.
So being Canadian and since hardly anything is built here anymore I like to support products made here when I can so I tried Klondike oil which is actually made Canadian oil but refined in the USA.
Anyway same thing oily sticky exhaust.
I used to be a Jonsered dealer years ago and the first saw I sold was a CS2137 which was actually a Poulan.
Anyway the guy I sold it to bought a bunch of Jonsered two-stroke oil and used that mostly he said but a couple years ago he started using that true fuel premix stuff at 50:1.
The saw calls for 40:1.
So the saw was almost 25 years old and finally needed a carb kit and lines etc so he brought it to me and when I pulled the exhaust the muffler and spark arrestor were very clean and dry and a nice chocolate/tan colour.
The piston looked like new.
I’m thinking I need to experiment with that stuff and see if it’s that fuel/oil or if its more to do with 50:1.
Great video sorry for the long winded post. Lol
Each oil has it's advantages and disadvantages. I have used Yamalube partial synthetic in my saws, but it does leave an oily residue. A lot of local loggers use it in their Stihls and Husky's with good results and they like the low cost compared to others. The main oil I use is Bardahl VBA, but it hasn't been made for a very long time. I bought out a warehouse when I heard they were not selling it in the US anymore. Still have some left, but will eventually run out. I never had any seizures with it or carbon, and had the nice tan coating on the piston crown. I have had newer Husky's and Stihl's, and used their oils for warranty purposes, but the saws just wore or blew up running at 50 to 1. Any oil will work to a degree, but old saws at 50 to 1 will eventually fail in hot weather or hard work. My little saws I run at 20 to 1, the mid size saws I run at 32 to1, and my big saws I generally run at 24 to 1. These are all vintage saws, as I dont have any modern saws anymore. I will run more or less oil in them at times depending on how heavy the work load is or high temperatures. The oils you have mentioned had been recommended to me, but are not available in my area, so I have never used them. The Echo Red Armor has been recommended by pro's and home users quite a few times. So I am going to use it in selected saws over the spring and summer and make a judgement on it then.
I had filled my pm610 with my standard 50:1 but added an extra half of an ounce of Red Armor to its tank to bring it up to about a 20:1 mix, as you recommend. I will see how it does on this mix. I may make up a gallon mix for it at 20:1. I know I need a muffler for it. It’s current one has disappeared with just a few remnants left. I am going to put a 20 inch bar on it when I can find one. This saw has lots of compression.and a chain break that does not work, correctly.
It will be interesting to hear what you think of the McBrick once you get it running and cutting. We dont have much hardwood around here, but some semi hardwood and soft wood mostly and I like to run a 24" bar. The saw has plenty of power to run that length bar. I have never seen a 610 where the muffler rotted off, very unusual. Most of my McBricks dont have the chain brake on them, but it should be very easy to fix the one you have if you like using them.
You're saint an a scholar sir thank you
Again always leaning something new! For now in the new saws just run the stuff that you get from the store that you mix in a gallon
Quite a lot of pro wood cutters are using the Echo Red Armor 2 cycle oil with great results. It is a partial synthetic like I use in my old saws, and if I had modern saws, that is what I would use. I will be trying some in my old saws soon. Stihl and Husky oils are not very good and wouldnt use them in any saws new or old. Thanks again for watching.
i have a 360 homelite automatic and i was wanting to know what kind of mix gas i need to use fuel cap is red next to bar oil cap gas cap is on left side on top
The factory recommended 32-1 oil-gas mix, and that is what I would use. Don't use full synthetic oil in the saw though. I am starting to use ECHO Red Armor oil, and they also have another oil that doesn't have the carbon removal additive. They are the best modern oils I have used, and many pro loggers prefer it to others. Use premium gas with no alcohol for best results.
I’ve Got a Couple 4 Packs of The Canned Lawnboy Oil 👌🏼👌🏼👌🏼😀👍🏼 And a Few Cans Of Citco Red 2 Cycle Oils and Some Old 1960’s Stihl 30weight 2cycle Oil 16:1
It is fun to have the old oil cans to go with a collection !
I never contemplated the big differences in the oils and the effects it would have on some of these older saws. Sincere thank you for sharing your knowledge.
Question: Bar oil, any wisdom to share??
Most bar oils work OK. The Stihl and Husky bar oils are quite thin and dont work well in my old saws. The bar oils I use are from tractor supply-nice thick oil and cheap, and the other is a private brand made for saw dealers in the PNW, and again a heavier oil.
@@mrobsoletesvintagehomestea9156 thank you!
Any opinion on Klotz? I have been wanting to try it. Love the smell, 😆
I havent used klotz for years. I tried it in my racing motorcycles a long time ago, and found it not to burn very clean. The smell is from the castor bean oil. They make a number of different oils now that were not available in the past. If you are running old saws, I wouldnt use it, and the full synthetic they sell , I wouldnt use it either for the reasons I talk about in the video. I dont know of any pro logger that ever used it either.
I'll have to check out the channel you suggested. My main oil of choice for my MS251 is AmsOil Saber, so I'll have to see if it is on the failure list. If it is I'll try something different, but most of the time I'll just buy a small metal tin of Tru-Fuel at 40:1 if I'm not using my saw a lot. It keeps for a long time since it's fully sealed and the fuel is ethanol-free. Also, I don't know how it compares to older castor based oils but I've been looking at Klotz BeNol to run in my YZ 465 when I eventually rebuild it. I've read a lot of positives on it with people saying it burns better than older oils. Again, just stuff I read. I don't know if modern versions have the same problems.
As for TC-W3, I read an older post on an arborist forum a while back from someone asking if it was safe to use in their saw and a lot of people on there said no. It's not safe to use in even modern saws. The reason they gave was because it's formulated for water-cooled engines and all chainsaws be them new or old are all air-cooled so TC-W3 supposedly makes saws run hot. Does that sound like a viable reason? I have a few gallons of TC-W3 I bought for cheap from our local Gander Outdoors when they went out of business a few years ago. But I only ever used it as a cheap upper cylinder lubricant in my old pickup. Which it helped a lot with, the truck ran smoother with it. :)
Amsoil has a high ash content from the info I have seen on it, so personally I wouldn't use it. Castor based oils just dont burn as clean as others I have found. In my vintage air cooled dirt bikes I run Golden Spectro partial synthetic, and have used it in my old saws at times, and have never had a lubricity failure, such as a seizure or scoring. I have been testing the ECHO Red Armor 2 cycle oil lately in some of the saws, and so far am impressed with the performance and clean burning. It has also been recommended by many pro loggers. Don't use TCW rated oils in your saws, as they are designed for cooler running since they are water cooled, and most of the time run at steady throttle settings, so the oil doesn't have to be all that good. I dont run full synthetic oil in any of my power equipment, and have never had a failure.
@@mrobsoletesvintagehomestea9156 I'll have to look around and see what I find. I'll give the Echo oil a try as there's an Echo dealer 6 miles from my house. But I will need to find something to run in the McCulloch 1-40 I just got. I don't want to burn it up. My dirt bike is currently a basket case project so it's already apart.
But once it's rebuilt I'll need a good oil to run in it. So I'll see what there is that's formulated for vintage equipment. I'd like to stick with something I can pick up locally if possible. The Golden Spectro oil is not something I've ever seen sold around here. As for TC-W3, I don't run it in my saw. It was only bought as cheap upper cylinder lubricant for my previous truck.
Last questions: What about a 2-stroke oil that is aimed toward high performance racing purposes? If there are some I can run safely in my 1-40 and my dirt bike once it's rebuilt I have no problem ordering it. Would something with a high zinc content in it help like it does for flat tappet cams? And could I get away with using a high octane fuel that has a little bit of lead in it or would that cause too much fouling? I've ran it in an atv in the past a few times and had no problems. Regardless of price, oil is cheap, equipment is not. So I don't mind paying a little bit for it. :)
I would run the ECHO Red Armor in the McCulloch at 40 to1 if you are not doing any heavy work with it, but if you do, run 32 to 1. I dont know if any of the two stroke oils have zinc in them, and the lead substitute is for 4 strokes to protect the valves, so not needed in 2 strokes. Golden Spectro can be purchased at Rocky Mountain ATV on line.. It is expensive, but worth it.@@Slane583
@@mrobsoletesvintagehomestea9156 I'll have to check it out. Thanks again. :)
I like to use 16 to 1 most of the time. Because of heavy duty use. I always use quality oils that are two stroke mixing oils. I have already used straight 30 weight non-detergent oil mixed with two stroke oil just to be safe. Never had a problem. Synthetic oil I will pass on, they are rough on the gaskets and seals. Most manuals I have read say to use good quality 30 weight non-detergent oil well mixed before putting into the fuel tank. Done that also and never really had any issue with carbon at all. That is my two cents Mr. Obsoletes Vintage Homesteading.
A lot of vintage saws I have picked up over the years usually had a fair amount of carbon in them from using just motor oil, so I never have used it once I cleaned them out. I have used a number of 2 stroke oils over the years, some with excellent results, and others not so much. In my McCulloch's I used their oil till it wasn't available anymore, and used Bardahl VBA for almost all my 2 strokes, and almost exclusively in my chainsaws since. By the color, smell and amount of smoke when using, I am willing to bet that they were one and the same. I have never had a seizure or carbon problem with either of them, but neither are available any longer, and I have just a limited supply left. I have been experimenting with the ECHO RED ARMOR oil in some of my equipment, and so far it is excellent. I would run at least 20-1 in your equipment, as too much oil makes them run hot.
@@mrobsoletesvintagehomestea9156 I can agree with you on all what you have said. I use two-cycle oil made by castor oil. Either it is 30 or 40 weight oil, as I do not remember right now. Did very little wood cutting this winter. My neighbor uses castor oil two cycle mixed with Wolf's head straight non-detergent motor oil, half and half mix of both oil's. His mix is 16:1 to 20:1 range. He said he has no buildup of carbon or ash. That was a problem with straight 30 weight oil. My saw's are clean for the most part when I checked with a little bit of residue. The engine has way more power at 20:1 is so true. I prefer the extra oil to keep the engine from running so high an RPM. Thanks for the total explanation Mr. Obsoletes Vintage Homesteading.
Your welcome.@@victoryfirst2878
@@mrobsoletesvintagehomestea9156 Sorry one more thing. Always shake your saw at least 30 seconds when using a saw that was seating a long time as the manual states. Thank you Sir for your time and channel giving honest information with substance. A trate not really found on many channels. Peace vf
It is always good to shake two stroke mix, whether in a saw that has been sitting or in your gas can. Castor based oils separate from gas if stored for a while, so it is very important to give them the ol shakeroo.@@victoryfirst2878
Question- what is the best modern oil for the rotary ? I will be reviving the old Evinrude after 20 years of sitting. I remember grandpa being very particular about running the rotary oil!
Stihl oil- have been running that in my saw because it was required for the 2 year warranty. Guess it has dye or a tracer in. They have some way to tell wether you used it or not.
Random story- I have my grandpas old 2 stroke golf cart, which smoked like hell (smelt terrible, like it’s burning down) and got really hot when you ran it hard. I figured it was toast (does need a rebuild) so I just keep running the heck out of. I dumped my snowmobile oil in which is Amsoil. And I’ll be dipped if didn’t start running cooler and stop smoking. 🤷🏻♂️
I have a small stash of Evinrude Rotary oil that I use in my my two rotaries. When I run out I will run the Golden Spectro partial synthetic or I am going to do some testing of the Echo Red Armor oil, which is also a partial synthetic and use it if it is as good as many have recommended. I dont run my rotaries much, as they run real hot, and should only be run in super cold conditions, which we dont have very often here. The old golf cart is probably coked up from slow running and brand X oils. I would suggest cleaning the exhaust port and cleaning the muffler. I clean out old two stroke mufflers by filling a big tub with water and Tide detergent, then bring it up to a boil for several hours, and almost all the carbon comes out. Then when cool , tap with a plastic hammer, and blow out with compressed air. Running the cart wide open is blowing out the looser carbon, thus making it breathe better. It is possible that the Amsoil is helping to get rid of the carbon. The Red Armor oil does it. I have ordered some Red Armor and am going to do some testing of it, should be interesting.
@@mrobsoletesvintagehomestea9156 I wouldn’t be surprised if find a stash of the rotary oil yet as we are going through the old garages. Never heard of the golden spectro probably have to order it.
As far as the cart goes, whenever I tear into it, it will be a for a rebuild. Upper end and crank seals at a minimum. Your theory makes sense, since I know he was paranoid about the oil injection failing and added oil to fuel as insurance as well. And it just puttered around the resort at the fishing hole. It’s original a 90ish ez go with a 2 stroke 3PG motor. I may just push it until it quits 😂
Thanks for the oil info 👍
Golden Spectro isnt what you will find except at a motorcycle store, or order it from someone like Rocky Mountain ATV. I have used it in my vintage dirt and racing bikes with great success. My boys were using some generic 2 cycle oil in our old Hodaka dirt bikes until I found out and made them start using the Spectro.The bikes start easier when cold, and the smooth clean running with the Spectro is a noticeable improvement, plus no carbon. 88888888965@@crazydave4455
I did not see that link you mentioned about oils and models. Can you share that with me? Thanks!
We had some problems loading this video, and the link was not uploaded. We were getting the video ready, but ran out of time to fix the problem and didnt do a link.
Any input on the Amsoil synthetic that can run up to 100:1? I am thinking 44:1 is a good all around mix.
According to Amsoil, their oil is high ash in thicker mixtures. What type of saw are you running? Dont use full synthetics in vintage saws, as I outlined in the video.
@@mrobsoletesvintagehomestea9156I am looking for that magic number of ratios. I am working on old Homelite and McCullough saws mostly. Strictly for shows.
If the saws are not working hard, 40:1 is good. If you are doing some extended cutting 32:1@@davidmech2956
I changed the cylinder on my MS 460 to change the cylinder on it to a Nikasil coated cylinder earlier this year. It had run nothing but Red Armor at 50:1. When I took the cylinder off it was coated with Red Armor, as were the connecting Rod and bearings. I was impressed.. I agree about Stihl Ultra - filthy crap.
The problem, today, is carbon build up with all the emission crap that EPA has put on our saws. Blocked over spark arrester screens will stop a saw quicker than just about anything else. I run Bosch WSR6 F spark plugs in most of my saws because they do not die as fast as NGK, BPMR 7A do. My Big Stihl saws have to be sloppy rich at startup for me to be able to crank them, otherwise they pop and try to drag me back into the recoil starter. It is hell to get old, isn’t it.
I have never used the Red Armor oil, but a lot of saw forums talk about how good it is. Amen to the getting old !
@@mrobsoletesvintagehomestea9156 afterI cleaned the spark arrester screen on my ms 241, I pulled the screens from the other saws that I have that have them. These saws had run more than the 241, but their screens were relatively clean. I burned them clean and put them back in. I had to soak the muffler off my 241 for thirty minutes before I could even get its screen off.. I then burned it off with my LP torch and put it back in. I ran fine, afterwards. I am still not a proponent of M-tronic saws. It is partially my fault, I do not use the MS 241, like I should. It is just a little to small for most of the stuff that I cut. I will try to use it more. It ought to handle limbing pretty good. It is a nice little,light saw but I do not have a need for little saws all that often. I will not run any two cycle oil that is not JASO FD certified, anymore. It gives better lubricate and less smoke than other oils. I will tell you this. I ran my ms 360 at idle for 15 minutes a few weeks ago and pulled the spark plug a few days later to put a winter/summer shutter on it. In doing so, I had to pull the plug. It was a beautiful chocolate brown in color. The 360 has had a bunch of Red Armor run through it because it is my favorite big saw. It does not have a spark arrester screen on it. It has a dual port muffler.
I recently saw a video where they ran the Red Armor oil in it. The Red Armor claims to remove carbon, so they did a test on a power blower. Well it actually cleaned the exhaust screen after several tanks of fuel and started to remove the carbon on the piston. I might have to try some. @@johnclarke6647
@@mrobsoletesvintagehomestea9156 it probably would have cleaned the spark arrester screen in my ms 241 had I been able to start the sucker, but I beat it to it. I cleaned it myself. It was flat frozen into the muffler. I was afraid I would break it getting it out, but didn’t. I pried it up with a small screwdriver and pulled it out with a pair of needle nose pliers. It was blocked solid.
@@mrobsoletesvintagehomestea9156 I can tell you it puked some of that black Ultra crap out for a little bit and then it cleaned up the mufflers on my other saws. When I put a new cylinder on my ms 460, I disassembled it’s muffler and cleaned it up to get out all the black crap from the Stihl Ultra and it has stayed clean, since. All my saws used to puke that black crap out unless I ran them wide open, but now they do not. When I built my ms 660 three years ago it used to puke black crap out so bad it looked like someone with a runny nose. The muffler side is now clean as a button. I started running Red Armor in January.
Hey Mr. Obsolete...or others. I got my hand on a Mcculloch 10-10. Nevere have any experience or knowledge about the type machine...I found it among a barn find I did in Norway. Curent I am in Sweden with the machine. Aspen is swedish gasoline for chain saws. I use that with as i understand...good experience on allot of saws i have and dealer here said it is the best. But for this old Pro- Mac Mcculloch 10-10...is Aspen gasoline...premixed for two stroke engines...too modern to recommend ? Anyone have som expertice advice? It is modell 600014F whatever that indicates or means. I heard they made some 40 different types, 10 mccullochs. series. I belive this 10-10 is a high value founding i did. I seen some from enthisiast Bucking Billy Ray Smith.. I am very impressed of you knowledge here...Mr. Obsolete. Thx for sharing all you knowledge.... Too bad...all that good knowledge is too forgotten and maybe...or for sure ...not respected and valued enough ...by far. It is like western humans ignore or do not fikus enough on their heritage and culture. But Mr. Osolete is almost bigger thgan life walking talking knowledge of an important part of our past and the fruits of handy useful patens and works etc. there in. Extremely apreciated and wow how i am impressed. Almost like we all have a school here with our own free of charge...museum director...teaching us he he ! :-)
The ASPEN oil is a full synthetic blend intended for modern saws. Never use a full synthetic oil in old saws, but use partial synthetic. The 10-10s were designed to run at 40 to 1 gas oil mix. That is fine for most uses, but if you intend to do some heavy duty cutting, I would use 32-1. You will have to look for some partial synthetic 2 stroke oil. If ECHO products are sold there, their RED ARMOR oil is what you need. Thanks for the kind comments.
@@mrobsoletesvintagehomestea9156 Very thankful. You are making an online school there ! :-). Ok...but than...after getting partial syntetic two stroke oil...than what. Pump gasoline ? Which type ? and are not the pump gasolin short lived for storage. I have heard the Aspen has capacity to be stored uptil 6 years...but i would never trust that...but a couple of years should satisfy the most peoples need and use. For old saws and equipment...you better mix yourself and use pump gasoline ? Getting the perfect two stroke oil too of course. I be looking for Red Armor thanks ! .-). Never hade a mcculloch 10-10 or that big mcculloch before...only 320 mini mac. I guess i have used Aspen on every saw... but understand...not the best for oldies/ vintage. But so far so good. I am amateur...and the Stihl dealer here in Sweden of course said Aspen ( swedish gasoline ). is the best in the world he he I ofcourse been more focused on old Jonsered and Partners...mostly from the eightees and not extreme vintage...but have no bad experience with those saws so far...using only Aspen. It is very convinient though for us more uneducated in the big wrld of gasoline and oil...but as I understand maight be hazardiouse/ hazard. What about my 1974 Gilson and other...Tillers. Should they too not have modern four stroke Aspen gasoline ? No bad experiences so far on them eighter...and pleasant little smoke for the user :-) ( 5HP Brigg & Stratton horizontal shaft )
I use high octane gas with no alcohol in it in all my equipment. I use Marvel Mystery oil at about 5% to gas in my old 4 stroke equipment, which keeps the valves lubed .Not sure if you have it available in Sweden, but a small amount of 2 cycle oil also works. @@motordiverse1276
@@mrobsoletesvintagehomestea9156 Thx :-)
Buckin uses only Stihl oil but he's always WOT, so no problems apparently.
If you are WFO, Stihl is ok. I never had any mechanical problems due to Stihl Ultra but it is filthy, otherwise. If you let a saw idle it spits black crap, everywhere. I have never seen a spark plug running Stihl Ultra that has a chocolate brown insulator. It is always dark no matter how you run it. My Husqvarna 25B blower I run WFO most of the time and it’s insulator is always dark with Ultra but not with Red Armor. Ultra just has to much ash in it. It completely block over the spark arrester screen on my ms 241 CM and that should not happen on a computer controlled saw. The inside of its muffler was completely covered with black carbon ash. I cleaned it out as best I could and hope red Armor will do the rest. I burned all the carbon off it’s spark arrestor. It cranks and runs fine, now.
I'll never understand how 100:1 Amsoil can give long engine life in modern saws but some guys claim it.
Modern saws have a chance at 100 to one, but a hot day, a dull chain and working the saw hard will guarantee a top end failure. My two buddies who were pro saw mechanics, really liked all the work they got from people using these oil mixtures.
Sir I really like your channel but I have to disagree I homestead in Alaska and have been running Stihl Ultra in my 070 lightning for years at 50:1. Oil technology has came so far. Amsoil claims you can run 100:1 even in vintage power equipment . Synthetic oils in my option are the only way to go.
I run a Super Pro 60 and a 7-10 Mac amongst many others. How do you feel about a ratio of 20-1 using SAE 30 wt? Thanks!
The problem with using motor oil in your saws is that it will leave a lot of carbon in the port and muffler, and the additives that they use in the oils are not designed for 2 stroke engines and can become abrasive. The real old saws just used plain old oil with no additives. When automotive needs became more demanding, zinc was one of the first additives that was used, and of course later more and more additives were used as auto engines became more sophisticated. I suggest you use a partial synthetic 2 stroke oil at 32-1 for heavy use, or 40-1 for firewood cutting and lighter work. Yamalube is good for average use and is not that expensive. I will be testing Echo Red Armor 2 stroke oil soon, too see if it is as good as many say. Golden Spectro is what I also use with excellent results.
@@mrobsoletesvintagehomestea9156 thank you for your reply! I’ll heed your advice. My old McCullochs are workhorses. I forgot they changed the formula. Thank you again. I look forward to the review of the Echo oil!
You actually use what you can get. I ran an oil named StsMix for years at 40:1 with then our 92 octane Regular gas. I had to get my two cycle oil at Forestry Supply in Fitzgerald, GA. It cost me about $3 a six pack. It was a good two cycle oil for the time frame - 1980’s to 2000. I poured in one can and 2.5 gallons of gas. I ran mostly Poulan equipment and some of my early saws ran 24:1 but my later saws all ran 40;1. All of my saws were all ball bearing saws, dealers called them Pro saws in those days. I run 50:1 today with Echo Red Armor in everything. My oldest saw is my Poulan Super 25, Deluxe Automatic and it runs 50:1 with no problems.
I did a little research on the Red Armor oil, and find it is partial synthetic like I have used forever. I am going to get some and compare it to the oils I am now using. Should be interesting.
I would like to know that too because my favorite small engine shop carries echo red armor. I run a couple of homelites- xl 12 and sxl auto- along with modern stihls and older stihl 041fb and O8S, up to ms 391. I know I don't like stihl oil because of excessively stinky and smoky exaust fumes. Note in ohio I can't get alcohol free fuel unless I buy turbo blue at an oil company.
Testing the Red Armor oil will be interesting, as quite a few have shown interest as to what the results will be. Looks like you have a nice collection of saws !@@wesleycallison2079
@@mrobsoletesvintagehomestea9156 well not all are runners yet! I also have a Mcholoch I-43, 4 David Bradley 360s, a 510evl echo. O45 stihl, a titan sportsman, a Poulan sandcast, and others. I could probably go crazy trying to keep them all running! And maybe broke also. Oh well it's fun for me.
Nice collection ! On the early saws, I pick out 2 to3 of them, give them a full service, take them out for work several times a year, then drain all the fuel, clean the carb, oil the bore and put them away. That way, I can just fuel them up, and they are ready to go.@@wesleycallison2079
it,s a 1975 or 1980 model
Old and new ,they all get 40:1.