I went to the BU Boot Camp with Dr Dave and loved it! Learned so much from all 3. I have now placed in the top 3 of the last 3 tournaments I have played in all thanks to these wonderful people :) Well worth the money.
Adam, thank you for posting this. You were a great student, and I'm glad you benefited from the experience. I hope you plan to join us for the Advanced Course next year. If so, don't wait too long to sign up. We already have 4 people signed up!
Wow! I'm so glad you posted this. It confirms that a lot of what I've been worrying about for years was pure hogwash. These myths always made me "over think" my shots, which always got me in trouble. Now I can honestly say that I can take a shot and know what does and doesn't have an effect on both making the shot and getting position. Every time I relax when I'm shooting, I win. The myth about finding and using the dominant eye was most beneficial. Now I'm going to start using my "vision center", which I've always been more comfortable with. Thank you so much Dr. Dave & crew.
Here's a myth. Professional pool players live glamorous lives. Most share rooms at cheap motels, eat at fast food joints, and hustle on the side. Only a handful of pros actually earn a good living. Most wind up old and broke.
Efren is the only pool god. I'm just a disciple. :) If you want to see more videos, I already have over 400 online on my channel: ua-cam.com/users/DrDaveBilliards
I really found the centre of vision interesting. A few specific shots have been driving me nuts for years, and I thought something like this was the problem. Unfortunately I dont play pool anymore since the local pool hall closed so I cannot experiment with this. But I still love pool and you have the best instruction videos no doubt! Thanks for the good content and take care.
Love your videos. Totally agree that a flat cue is best for draw, but sometimes the bounce “jump” that you get from striking down on the ball prevents the loss of backspin caused by cloth friction.
Thanks Dr. Dave I am from Algeria, I have gained many skills from your videos, and I have mastered cte aiming method, although the possibilities are as small as the cue stick and many things, thanks again.
This spin iduced trow one surprised me. For a long time i didn't even know it exsisted, but i definetly never new that 50% spin gives you the most trow. Thank you.
@@DrDaveBilliards love your "scientific" approach to this stuff. I've referenced a lot of it during my thesis. And I also use your line of explanation with players new to the game. Do you have anthing on WHY 50% spin creates more SIT than 100%? My first guess would be that it's due to maximising friction during contact. Regarding to that I also think that the 30 degree rule, CIT and SIT is basically the same principle. What's your thought on this?
I think a lot of people believe side spin affect CB path after impact with the OB, because they don't apply strictly side spin, but a combination of side and draw, which definitely throws the CB off the tangent line after impact with the OB. Very insightful video as always, Dr. Dave! 👌
Thanks for the video. But I have to disagree with busting "myth 3". Yes with stunshot it does not change the CB direction. But with follow shot it does change it. It is well known fact for russian billiards players, since they often have to pot a cueball and those small trajectory changes are very important. With inside spin the trajectory arc is more curvy. While with outside spin it's more "flat". Effectively this means that with outside you'll come slightly closer to the tangent line than with inside.
Excellent point. Inside follow also causes slight swerve before the hit, which helps straighten the cut angle slightly. FYI, the CB path differences are covered in detail here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/30-90-rules/sidespin/
@empower93 I think @DrDaveBilliards point refers more to if it's a level flat stroke. Anytime you put some amount of force downwards into the table, the table acts similar to a cushion which is how you can perform swerve and masse shots. With a level stroke, you shouldn't see the ball change course.. but as soon as you drive the cueball downwards into the table (even a little) you'll see the effects to the degree in which you forced the ball into the table. Masseing straight down at 90 degrees with your cue will obviously apply significant change in path. Aiming down at 45 degrees with the cue will apply a noticeable change in path, but not as much. But then you get down to smaller numbers like... 10, 15, 20 degrees.. or even pressure applied from topspin... You won't see the same effects as masse or swerve, but it doesn't make the effects nonexistent.
@@chalkysticks FYI, the link (billiards.colostate.edu/faq/30-90-rules/sidespin/) does cover the different ways sidespin affects the trajectory of the CB, both before and after impact with the OB.
I to disagree. I'm not versed in the technical terminology of rotating spheres but I'll try to remember it best I can from books I've read as well as from videos. So if it makes no sense I'm sorry. I believe most the info is correct but misses on certain key points that may be discussed in detail at the suggested sites. To be honest I have not checked them. The shot with center left or right spin even with a level cue you'll get some swerve depending on how fast the spin and forward(the axis is horizontal or side to side when rolling forward) motion axis drops(axis is at the base of the ball) and you have just horizontal rotation. I will say this depends on having perfect equipment with clean and shiny balls but some people play on less than perfect tables and balls with a heavy or lighter cue ball and object ball. People will notice the different reaction of a same diameter but heavier cue ball as it will not draw as expected but follows or is rolling forward after a center ball hit. So the "myth" is real from the unknowing's point of view. Check Schmidts crazy freakish scratch on his three hundred something run. I can't remember the exact number. I've only it seen that once but not nearly that bad. The rotational axis dropped slowly and the ball curved over almost a diamond into the corner pocket. Another thing was the second part of "myth 3" I believe leads off topic although it is important to know it's got nothing to do with cue ball's path after the hit. The thing is we always over think the shot. We use English to cancel the CIT and this make the shots play easier but do we really need to? Not if you account for it but knowing the amount of correction varies with the equipment. You can get to anywhere on the table using just high or low and the right speed on most shots. It's when we have to avoid object balls or try to get shorter shots using side spin off the rail that it gets crazy.
@@MrADVANCEDTEK Concerning swerve, for the shots in my video, I think the swerve is happening before the CB reaches the OB, and this is already compensated for o achieve the desire ghost-ball position. Therefore, the swerve does not affect the tangent line or CB trajectory after the hit. Concerning the John Schmidt scratch, see the video and explanation at the bottom of the page here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/swerve/object-ball/ Concerning correcting aim for throw, over or under cutting the ball is an option, but using gearing outside english is also an option: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/sidespin/outside-gearing/ For good advice about where and how to adjust for throw, see the list at the bottom of the page here: billiards.colostate.edu/tutorial/throw/
Thank you Dr Dave! A coach told me to play with my cue under my dominant eye and it screwed up my game for years. Recently I found my real vision center with your test but unfortunately I am still swiping the ball from all those years of playing wrong.
I'm glad to hear my stuff has helped. I think "vision center alignment" is one of the the most important fundamentals of pool. FYI, if you want to straighten that stroke, the videos here might be helpful: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/stroke/ Enjoy!
I just recently started getting more dedicated to getting better at pool and am so very grateful that your videos exist. I've already gotten better thanks.
ben gillespie I’m glad to hear it. FYI, all of my recent Top 10 videos, which have summaries of many important pool techniques and principles, are available here: ua-cam.com/play/PLH9d4KFY28XtrkjqZMKZc3uB4Y5sWCjW6.html
Got a few ones, so gonna do several comments. Myth #9. The amount of spin is dependent on 1) contact position on CB 2) friction between tip and ball and 3) contact time between tip and ball. Shot type affects 3): if you have a stroke that accelerates at contact, you will have a slightly longer contact time resulting in more spin for the same contact point. How much that is, I have no idea. Might be close to nothing, but probably not since most good players try to accelerate through the impact when trying to maximize draw, for instance.
Your first example is interesting.. Elevating to get steeper draw.. That concept applies with a shortened bridge as well, and the shortened bridge will also help shorten banks with steeper angles, which helps playing hole.
A shorter bridge has no direct effect on draw or banks unless the shorter bridge causes you to use a different stroke speed or hit the CB in a different spot.
I think the 2nd myth about drawing better with an closed bridge has been around for a long time, with the belief that the closed bridge offers partial cue elevation whenever draw is needed, but not as much as an open bridge.
"Dominant eye" is important only if it has an effect on one's "vision center" position. This is not the case for most people. For more info, see: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/eyes/dominant-eye/ billiards.colostate.edu/faq/eyes/vision-center/
Im blind in one eye so i align under my good eye but i still see light through the other but when i put on a eyepatch i can play with precision it feels like
Extra bonus myth #11: You actually play better after a few beers Unlike the previous 10 myths, this I've actually heard. During my time as a student we had an idea to check if this holds water. Test setup: 2 players playing 8-ball for 10 sessions of roughly 3 hours. One person to keep score. Both players had separate score cards. Both players used same equipment for all test sessions. Both players drank beer, starting sober and stopping after 6 beers (0.5 liters each). Assumption here was that if there was point of drunkenness where you played better, it should be well before you are totally wasted. The score keeper kept score in 5-minute slots. He wrote down each shot where we actually tried to pocket the shot, marking down if the shot went in or not. Same 5-minute slots were used to mark when we bought a new beer. Eventually this data was used to estimate the drunkenness (based on speed of beer consumption, burning off of alcohol already in blood and weight of the player). Then this was used to transfer the shots from 5-min slots to drunkenness slots (we used 10 slots here). The plot of that data showed a rather linear drop in shots made (as a percentage). After being surprised by that, we assumed that maybe this was due to us trying to pocket harder shots as we got more drunk and thus bolder and overestimating our own skills. There was a tiny increase in shots takes as you go up the drunk-scale, but not enough to explain but tiny minority of decrease in pocketing percentage. Not enough to prove it in general terms, but if I was on Mythbusters, I'd say "BUSTED"
@@DrDaveBilliards "The belief that a small amount of alcohol can help some people play better is just a theory based on anecdotal evidence," says Dave Alciatore I know my test was not very scientific, but it's the most scientific test data I have seen. And it says that there is no "sweet spot", you get worse even after 1 beer. We all (test participants) both expected and thought after running the tests that there was a sweet spot. The data showed us that there wasn't.
@@mikkosalmi4918 FYI, there have been some scientific studies. They are mentioned in the articles at the links at the bottom of the page here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/advice/alcohol/
I'm sorry but... Finding your dominant eye is the first step in finding your vision center, so it is important just it is not sufficient. Where your vision center is, literally depends on which eye is dominant and how much it is dominant. Now, aligning 100% with a dominant eye fails in pool even if the other eye is blind or just shut close. Reason for that is that your depth perception is impaired when using just one eye to make a shot. If both eyes see the balls, both eyes are participating in determining the vision center. You will always end up with moving your cue position to some degree towards the dominant eye or tilting the head slightly to the left or right to align the vision center to your position instead the other way around. If you don't know which is your dominant eye but you are making shots consistently anyways, it is easy to figure it out just by observing your position or head tilt. You can find your vision center without figuring out anything about the dominant eye, but you will get there much faster by determining which one is dominant and for how much. Measurement is more reliable than intuition, if done properly.
Sorry, but this is simply not true. There is no correlation between dominant eye and vision center, unless you have an extremely dominant eye (in which case, your vision center position might be with the cue directly under your dominant eye). For example, many players (me included) have a vision center with the cue exactly centered between the eyes, even though most people (me included) have a dominant eye (mine is my right eye). And for some people, the vision center position is off center and on the opposite side of their nose as the dominant eye. The only way to find your personal vision center (which apparently has little or nothing to do with dominant eye for most people) is to do the drills and visualization tests at the table, per the videos and info here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/eyes/vision-center/
Great stuff...... but, finding your “vision center” is relative to eye dominance. I did extensive research with an optometrist for pool and shooting rifles and when dealing with millimeters eye dominance is extremely important. Shoulder position changes relative to eye dominance. Some of the greatest monsters of the game I’ve ever seen changed their stroke based on eye dominance. I fear that ridged instruction limits some peoples ability to find something new and different that may work for the individual. When Master Bill told me to put my cue under my left eye, my shot making jumped to pro level.
Slate Matthew unless you are blind, you use two eyes to aim not one. Vision center is where both of your eyes see a straight line. That maybe under one eye or the other, but for most people it’ll be somewhere between the eyes.
Yes, but if you have a dominant eye the stick will favor that side. If you dont, you will not be aiming where you think. This was taught to me by a great road player and I have taught this to professional players. Their response has been very positive. “I’ve never sighted the ball better” is the usual reaction.
matthew ryder Agreed. How bought Strickland? Out past his dominant eye at times!? Crazy. There is a guy from texas plays with his stick ten inches to his right side. His head is literally no where near his stick. He plays just below pro level. Sick. Lol
Well. I think it is important to distinguish the words, from the intended meaning. I doubt many people really believe that you can increase the net value of spin you impart on a ball. What they most likely mean, which is not theoretically, but practically true, is that you can use much more sidespin in your actual games, because you dont have to deal with the difficulties of deflection as much.
I assume you are talking about the swoop/swipe stroke. If so, you are right that it might help some people compensate for CB deflection without having to think about it. But this won't work for shots of all speeds and distances.
The dominant eye intrigued me given that I'm blind in my left eye. Far sighted in my right. Im going to take note of my alingment next week at our afternoon pool get together.
If you have vision only in your right eye, your right eye should most certainly be right over the cue. Although, if you haven't learned this way, it might take time to get accustomed to it (but it should be better in the long run).
Hi Dr.Dave, great instuctional video as always! I am wondering if the acceleration of the tip (rather than the velocity) has any effect on the cue ball. At around 9:00 of the video, you claimed that only velocity on contact matters (assuming all other variables stay the same). But from my own experience whether the tip is acceleting or decelerating through the cue ball also cause different effects. i.e. cue ball has stronger spin even when they are hit at the same spot. On top of that, how much difference would two tips with different hardness make on cue ball behavior? Alao assuming the tip hits the cue ball at same spot and with same velocity on contact. Thanks!
For a typical stroke, acceleration has practically no effect whatsoever, assuming the cue speed at tip contact is the same in the comparison. For more info, see: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/stroke/follow-through/ billiards.colostate.edu/faq/grip/light-vs-tight/ billiards.colostate.edu/faq/stroke/acceleration/
A harder tip can result in more speed (and therefore more spin) for a given cue speed. For more info, see: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/ billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/efficiency/
In my respectful opinion there are several shots that I can hit the Qball in one spot to produce a result. Then turn around and hit the qball in the exact same spot but with a different stroke and get a completely different result. Like on a kill shot. Or like a safety shot where I’m only trying to get say 2 inches of backspin just to hit a rail or tuck the qball behind another ball. There are numerous shots that I can hit the qball and get different results depending on the stroke. Imo , or either I’m simply not understanding you to begin with. A long green cut shot, i can put a lot of bottom on the qball but use a kill stroke. Apply just enough bottom that as the qball rolls backwards down the table 2/3’ds of the way there the bottom wears off and the qball then turns back into top spin. However it allows the qball to slow way down just before contact and let’s me hit the object ball super soft from a long distance. Especially if the table isn’t straight and rolls off on soft or slow shots. You use any other stroke and the kill shot will not work even tho your hitting the qball in exactly the same spot and even withsame speed
If you are getting a different result, you are hitting the CB with a different speed or at a different angle or at a different tip contact point. For more info, see: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/stroke/type-and-quality/
3:42 You cut the ball into the side pocket twice. The object ball was cut just enough to pocket it, demonstrating throw, the the cue ball traveled almost directly over the racking spot both times. The third shot had the most cut to it, but with outside english, and the cue ball traveled ABOVE the spot, not over it or below it as the greater cut would suggest. I believe you may have debunked your own debunking on that one Dave.
TheJurgisRud I think Randy might have had a touch of backspin on that third shot, but it is also possible he hit it a touch thick. Regardless, the SIT was clear. FYI, I’m working on a follow-up video, that will make this more clear. Stay tuned.
Hello Dave I got to tell you when I watch Efron stroke the ball and I'm sure you've noticed it how the butt of his cue goes up and down a lot. But it works for him. Keith
I think that is mostly to stay loose and relaxed. On his final stroke into the ball, the elbow is more still and the tip hits where he is aiming on the CB.
@11:40 Thanks for that tidbit. I am a snooker player and I have noticed that Mark Selby does this on every shot he takes. There are point in times of his snooker matches when the TV cameras looks directly at him as he takes the shot and you will see him move his head square from left to right. I always suspected that he was making sure he was aiming correctly by reassuring himself that he is on his vision center. Thumbs up xD #smashThatLikeButton
Satobatsu Kaiba I’ve been watching mark for a while now. He didn’t use to do this but yes that’s exactly what he’s doing. I’ve noticed his game has dipped a lot in recent seasons so it’s a shame he’s having these issues but it’s so common. He’s likely not happy with how true he’s striking the cueball. maybe his vision center has changed and he hasn’t found a natural setup from standing to on- the-shot position of his body and eyes yet
@@IFranchisedI I disagree. There are many reasons why someone's game can be off. Most of the time its personal/family related. Mark Selby is still one of the top snooker players. As far as I know, he is #2 in the world of snooker. The pressure of being #1 in snooker is really hard. He has to play many matches each year.
Satobatsu Kaiba yeah I know last year he played about twice as many tournaments as the world no 1. His game is off man, even he admits it. It’s form related not fatigue or psychological
@@IFranchisedI If I am having family or personal issues I won't tell the world. I would say its my form also. The world does not need to know my issues. Just saying
I'm also curios as some other people about myth 3. How does spin induced throw affect the CB line out after the contact? Let's say I hit the same contact point on the OB, stun shot, one with spin, one without. OB would be thrown because of spin induced throw, but I though CB would also be thrown in the opposite direction of OB (not sure if it would throw the same amount, I would think so)? So the tangent line should be different, even though we hit the same contact point on the OB and for some speeds and spins this could be significant if CB is far from the rail (up to 4 degrees irc) On the other hand, let's say I hit the OB with the exact amount of english such that for the same initial OB and CB positions I hit exactly the same part of the pocket as with no spin. I would think that in this case CB follows the same line and hits the same point on the rail, because whatever the change in the initial CB direction was cancelled by the throw and in effect CB was thrown back to the old tangent line. I am probably wrong in my thinking somewhere, but I'd appreciate if you could explain where exactly. Thanks!
Hey the one myth I believed was that side spin changes the tangent line. I now know that is false when the side spin is hit with no follow or draw. I wonder if this principle changes with follow or draw beyond what follow or draw alone would achieve. I've always felt like outside English makes the tangent line increase in angle in reference to the original cue ball path and inside English makes it decrease in reference to the original cue ball path. I will definitely do some experimenting of my own. Thanks for your time and dedication in making these videos!
Very informative! I usually do closed bridge for drawing because I saw a podcast where Bustamante says a closed bridge gives you more control when drawing. But I do notice that open bridge is better lately. Was Busti wrong?
Next Myth #5: (LD shaft allows for more spin) I really can't say anything definite on this, since I really do not know what the mechanisms are that make a shaft LD. But if whatever the mechanism is, creates a longer contact (shaft bends to the direction of offset from center, for example) then it should create more spin. Purely speculation. But what I can say about the proof used to bust that myth is that the speed at which the CB hits the rail is very important when observing the angle of rebound. I can't tell from the video if the two shots displayed were made with same speed. Even though faster speed at contact with cushion results in longer contact time (and larger contact area) and thus more force, that effect is not enough to compensate for the disparity between the force of the rebound and the sideways force created by the spin. Easiest way to state this is that the deflection in rebound angle is dependent on the ratio of the spin-to-speed. Not trying to claim that myth was not busted, just saying that showing those 2 shots and drawing a line showing the deflection is not enough to debunk this myth if you have no way of making sure the shots had same speed.
I enjoy your videos dr Dave. You should do one on whether women can/should compete with men. I’m on a league with all men. They’re all very kind to me and help to teach me. But really, none of us see any good reason to have strictly male/male and female/female competitors.
Fort Collins, Colorado. All info is available here: billiarduniversity.org/instruction/school/ Send me an e-mail if you want to be added to the contact list for new courses.
Thank you. Pool is "pocket billiards." I use the term "billiards" instead of (or in addition to) "pool" to make it easier for people to find my stuff via UA-cam and Internet searches. Most people don't know the difference, and search engines might think "pool" involves swimming.
Thanks all of you I want to avoid to get in touch with my chest during the stroke , but i want to keep my chin as close to the cue as possible . Any advice ? B.t.w. Sam has such a beautiful smile :) !
There isn't necessarily anything wrong with chest contact during the stroke, but you can eliminate it by using knee bend instead of waist bend to get lower. You can also change how open or closed your stance. FYI, you might find the videos and info on the following page helpful: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/stance/advice/ PS: You are right. Samm does have a beautiful smile (and personality).
@@DrDaveBilliards this is a very interesting subject to me but the solution you gave here with the cue hitting the chest is not for shorter players. Bu, in fact, YOU helped me with a serious stroke problem I had but in a way you probably don't realize. Let me explain: In a previous video you demonstrated different strokes and mentioned that because you were tall you bent your knees. Well, I am not tall but I still bent my knees. This caused the cue, on the later part of my stroke, to brush my chest throwing the cue slightly off line. To compensate I would put my right foot about five inches to the left of the shooting line to get more room. But this did not solve the problem totally and I was still very inconsistent, which was driving me crazy. So I used some advice or something you mentioned in the video I was watching. Instead of bending me knees which brought my upper body down very close to the rail (because I am short) I decided to simply put my foot slightly to the left of the shooting line, bend my left knee slightly, and keep my right leg straight, and bend at the waist. This has made a HUGE difference for me. It opened up about six inches of space from the cue to my chest. Now my stroke is MUCH more straight. The cue is NOT hitting my chest and throwing the middle or back end of the cue to the right which would slightly throw the tip of the cue to the left. My potting has become much better in just a week or so. I played in a tournament here in Manila last night against some fairly good players, and although I did not win I played well and most of the players mentioned my stroke looked more fluid and natural. So NOT bending so much at the knees and bending basically from the waist and keeping my right leg straight made the issue with the cue brushing my chest mostly go away or almost completely away. There is a downside though, my right hamstring is sore as hell. But that will go away shortly and shows that maybe I need to get a bit more flexible in the first place.
If you are getting a different path off the object ball with side spin it suggests to me you are adding a slight touch of top or bottom without actually realising it or you are not contacting the object ball at the same touch point each time (slightly over or under cutting maybe), I used to believe the same as you when I was younger, but 20 years on I agree with Dr Dave....... it was me not playing it right or consistently originally
@@bmac7885 FYI, with inside follow (especially with cue elevation), the CB trajectory is slightly different both into and away from the OB, even with the same contact point as a rolling shot with no sidespin.
I hope it helps. If you want even more help for future weeks, check out all of the videos in my "Top 10" series: ua-cam.com/play/PLH9d4KFY28XtrkjqZMKZc3uB4Y5sWCjW6.html
I do not understand how myth 5 is debunked. The low deflection cue can aim even further on the left in the shot you are demonstrating(at the exact spot the Players cue is aiming) and that would result in more sidespin from my understanding. I think the fair comparison would be that. Aim at the same spot on the cueball and hit a specific point on the rail and then check the rebound angles.
If you use the same cue direction for each cue, the CB will go in different directions. That's not a good comparison. A better comparison is what we did ... hitting the CB in the same spot with the CB going in the same direction. For more info, see: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue/low-squirt/#spin
People who are looking to improve on draw shots should watch Shaun Murphy, Neil Robertson and Judd trump videos. They can draw more than length of table on 12 foot tables and I can’t think of a single snooker player who uses a closed bridge. Yes the balls are fractionally lighter but they’re also smaller which makes precise cuing way more difficult as well and I can tell you those 1g aramith balls for snooker are not that much lighter than 2.25” pool balls
MZiggy There is also lots of draw shot technique advice here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/draw/advice-and-drills/ Most snooker players already do these things well.
If you are asking about performance enhancing drugs, they can certainly help some people in some physical and mental states, but they certainly are not recommended (or legal in competitive play). And some are not very healthy.
Udo H Thanks Udo! You were a great student. It was fun to see how much you progressed in such little time, and we were honored that you travelled so far to participate. I hope to see you again in the future.
FYI, I just posted a follow-up video that looks at the CB and OB direction sidespin-effect subtleties. Check it out: ua-cam.com/video/ytFwsxJ3gA4/v-deo.html
Since the spin on CB affects where the target ball goes, you will need to hit the target ball in a different spot to make it go to same direction, right? If that's the case, how on earth does that not affect the deflection angle of CB? Does the spin induced throw somehow conveniently cancel that effect out?
Side spin change the tangent line and you are wrong, though the "change" is not significant for pool but try Pyramid game where you should pocket the cueball in the narrow pocket, and you'll see it changes a lot!!!!
@@GJBilliards If you play Pyramid, cueball potting is the main technique that wins the game. if you put inside spin 30% bend after the follow through will occur earlier then with outside spin. That is why inside spin is the main spot for the cue ball potting because it is much predictable
Veritas Sidespin does throw the OB, and it can change CB trajectory a small amount (e.g., with an inside follow shot), but it does not change the tangent line. For more info, see: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/30-90-rules/sidespin/
@@DrDaveBilliards I recommend you to experiment on Pyramid tables when those throws are vital for potting (As I know there are pyramid tables in New York), or make and experiment at billiarding the object balls you will see the huge difference in some cases
I respectfully disagree with myth number 9. A kill shroke vs a follow through stroke makes a tremendous amount of difference in my opinion. As well as other shots.
Uncle Wreckum As I explain and demonstrate in the video, a different strike type can most certainly produce a different result, but only because it creates a different tip position or cue speed than a regular stroke. For the shot demonstrated, a regular stroke with a different tip position could have more easily created the same result.
@@DrDaveBilliards I disagree with number 9 too. Barry Stark's video 109. talks about timing and the quality of contact. They filmed snooker professional Michael Holt's shots with a high speed camera and determined that there is a difference between different strokes. English billiards players know how important timing and cueing through the ball smoothly is, and i suspect that carom players do too. Thanks for the video!
@@crazypiikkis Tip contact time can change with tip hardness, shot speed, and stroke acceleration, but these factors are not important to the action of the shot. All that really matters is the cue speed and tip contact point at the brief moment of contact. For more info, see: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/contact-time/ billiards.colostate.edu/faq/grip/light-vs-tight/ Now, having a smoothly accelerating stroke (with no deceleration into the ball) is definitely important for accurate and consistent speed control.
Well you’ve done it again DrDave, outstanding! You told me you would get Sam to dye her hair though, what’s up with that!?!? Keep up the great work👍🏻👍🏻
How about a detailed video on frozen cb and ob so we can clear this "foul shot" up???? Seems like a poisonous issue, only one video on youtube and it lasts all of 3 secs.
I'm not exactly sure what you mean. If you are asking about it not being a foul to hit into the CB if it is frozen to an OB, see the videos and info here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/foul/frozen/
@@DrDaveBilliards it's hard to believe this as I was professionally coached by a renowned coach for a good few years, who was also coached by even more famous coach in billiards world and they always said that the back leg must be locked at the knee. Would you happen to see any pro pool player, who has both of their legs bent?
@@Bibhor4 Most pro pool players are short, so there is no reason to bend the back leg; although, Shane VanBoening is a good example. He bends both legs, and he isn't even that tall. There is nothing wrong with an solid and athletic bent-knee stance.
I see your point in the video, but I still think that the bending angle of both knees shouldn't be to the same degree or close to it. If you watch SVB, his back leg is a lot less bent that his forward leg, which is clearly visible. In your video, you bend both knees to the same angle and I think that causes unstable stance (especially for beginners). I saw an amateur pool enthusiast play on the table next to me the other day (he regularly visits the same pool room, where I play), and he had both of his knees bent. I could see his legs moving causing his body to move also. I think the fact that his both knees are bent at the same angle, and the fact that he's a beginner hinders him from understanding how important it is to be stable. With locked knees or fairly straight back leg, there's one less thing for him to worry about. If you're tall, spread the leg further back to bring your center of gravity down, and it also allows you to touch the cue with your chin. This will also not cause the legs to be tired while playing long hours.
@@Bibhor4 You are correct that one can easily move one's head and body with a bent-knee stance, but it is also easy to move the body and head with a locked-knee stance. You are also right that spreading the feet farther apart can help a tall person get lower without having to bend the knees as much or at all. Believe me ... I have tried every variation, and the one that works best for me is an athletic stance with both knees bent. I don't have strain in my neck, back, hamstring, or ankles, and it feels very solid. I have seen lots of bad amateur stances (feet too close together, both feet in line with the shot, too much weight on back foot, too much weight on front foot, too open, too closed, etc.). There are lots of things that can go wrong ... moving the hips during the shot, moving the torso during the shot, moving the head during the shot, bending one or both knees during the shot, dropping or swinging the elbow out during the shot, not having the head in the right place, etc. Having both knees bent in a solid athletic stance is not an issue at all if all of the other things are OK.
Willie Mosconi stated that whenever possible, a closed bridge should be used. An open bridge allows for a failure mode on those with stroke issues. I have yet to experience a shot condition where I was unable to shoot with a closed bridge, and no, it isn’t a “band-aid”. You are simply trying to bolster your claims.
A closed bridge is certainly the best choice for some people. However, an open bridge has advantages, per the info here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bridge/open/ That's why all snooker players use it. It is also why more and more pool players use it (especially the younger ones).
Nobody breaks down pool/billiards topics as succinctly as this channel. Thank you for the hard work you put into these videos and your university.
Thank you ... and you're welcome. I aim to swerve. :)
I went to the BU Boot Camp with Dr Dave and loved it! Learned so much from all 3. I have now placed in the top 3 of the last 3 tournaments I have played in all thanks to these wonderful people :) Well worth the money.
Adam, thank you for posting this. You were a great student, and I'm glad you benefited from the experience. I hope you plan to join us for the Advanced Course next year. If so, don't wait too long to sign up. We already have 4 people signed up!
Wow! I'm so glad you posted this. It confirms that a lot of what I've been worrying about for years was pure hogwash. These myths always made me "over think" my shots, which always got me in trouble. Now I can honestly say that I can take a shot and know what does and doesn't have an effect on both making the shot and getting position. Every time I relax when I'm shooting, I win. The myth about finding and using the dominant eye was most beneficial. Now I'm going to start using my "vision center", which I've always been more comfortable with. Thank you so much Dr. Dave & crew.
I'm glad to hear it. Good luck with your game!
I used a trick when playing a stressful game, just smile and it will help you relax.
Here's a myth. Professional pool players live glamorous lives. Most share rooms at cheap motels, eat at fast food joints, and hustle on the side. Only a handful of pros actually earn a good living. Most wind up old and broke.
Joseph Van that’s why you go to pro snooker!
Sometimes I wonder why I’m missing shots. I’ll just blame the spin induced throw and hope my buddies don’t know what it means ;) haha
And when that doesn't work, you can blame cut-induced throw. :)
Make sure you refer to it as SIT, so he’ll immediately grasp your troo fiziks prowess.
Are you the god of pool Dr?
I'm always astonished by your videos and I can't get enough of them.
Efren is the only pool god. I'm just a disciple. :)
If you want to see more videos, I already have over 400 online on my channel:
ua-cam.com/users/DrDaveBilliards
I really found the centre of vision interesting. A few specific shots have been driving me nuts for years, and I thought something like this was the problem. Unfortunately I dont play pool anymore since the local pool hall closed so I cannot experiment with this. But I still love pool and you have the best instruction videos no doubt! Thanks for the good content and take care.
FYI, a lot more info and videos dealing with "vision center" can be found here:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/eyes/vision-center/
Enjoy!
It was excellent Team work , this video is very informative. Love it. Thank you very much. Hope to see you together is a team . Good channel to learn.
We've done lots of videos together. We also teach the BU Boot Camps together:
billiarduniversity.org/instruction/school/
THANKYOU for spending time explaining whats actually going on. this saves table time and experimentation when some of us have day jobs.
Love your videos. Totally agree that a flat cue is best for draw, but sometimes the bounce “jump” that you get from striking down on the ball prevents the loss of backspin caused by cloth friction.
@@v6climber That’s a common misconception. See:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/draw/cue-elevation/
Thanks Dr. Dave I am from Algeria, I have gained many skills from your videos, and I have mastered cte aiming method, although the possibilities are as small as the cue stick and many things, thanks again.
This spin iduced trow one surprised me. For a long time i didn't even know it exsisted, but i definetly never new that 50% spin gives you the most trow. Thank you.
You're welcome. We aim to swerve. :)
@@DrDaveBilliards love your "scientific" approach to this stuff. I've referenced a lot of it during my thesis. And I also use your line of explanation with players new to the game.
Do you have anthing on WHY 50% spin creates more SIT than 100%? My first guess would be that it's due to maximising friction during contact.
Regarding to that I also think that the 30 degree rule, CIT and SIT is basically the same principle. What's your thought on this?
See:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/throw/speed-effects/
I think a lot of people believe side spin affect CB path after impact with the OB, because they don't apply strictly side spin, but a combination of side and draw, which definitely throws the CB off the tangent line after impact with the OB. Very insightful video as always, Dr. Dave! 👌
Good point. I'm glad you liked the video.
BTW, sidespin does have a subtle effect on CB path. See the videos here:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/30-90-rules/sidespin/
Thanks for the video.
But I have to disagree with busting "myth 3". Yes with stunshot it does not change the CB direction. But with follow shot it does change it.
It is well known fact for russian billiards players, since they often have to pot a cueball and those small trajectory changes are very important.
With inside spin the trajectory arc is more curvy. While with outside spin it's more "flat".
Effectively this means that with outside you'll come slightly closer to the tangent line than with inside.
Excellent point. Inside follow also causes slight swerve before the hit, which helps straighten the cut angle slightly. FYI, the CB path differences are covered in detail here:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/30-90-rules/sidespin/
@empower93 I think @DrDaveBilliards point refers more to if it's a level flat stroke. Anytime you put some amount of force downwards into the table, the table acts similar to a cushion which is how you can perform swerve and masse shots. With a level stroke, you shouldn't see the ball change course.. but as soon as you drive the cueball downwards into the table (even a little) you'll see the effects to the degree in which you forced the ball into the table.
Masseing straight down at 90 degrees with your cue will obviously apply significant change in path. Aiming down at 45 degrees with the cue will apply a noticeable change in path, but not as much. But then you get down to smaller numbers like... 10, 15, 20 degrees.. or even pressure applied from topspin... You won't see the same effects as masse or swerve, but it doesn't make the effects nonexistent.
@@chalkysticks FYI, the link (billiards.colostate.edu/faq/30-90-rules/sidespin/) does cover the different ways sidespin affects the trajectory of the CB, both before and after impact with the OB.
I to disagree. I'm not versed in the technical terminology of rotating spheres but I'll try to remember it best I can from books I've read as well as from videos. So if it makes no sense I'm sorry. I believe most the info is correct but misses on certain key points that may be discussed in detail at the suggested sites. To be honest I have not checked them.
The shot with center left or right spin even with a level cue you'll get some swerve depending on how fast the spin and forward(the axis is horizontal or side to side when rolling forward) motion axis drops(axis is at the base of the ball) and you have just horizontal rotation. I will say this depends on having perfect equipment with clean and shiny balls but some people play on less than perfect tables and balls with a heavy or lighter cue ball and object ball. People will notice the different reaction of a same diameter but heavier cue ball as it will not draw as expected but follows or is rolling forward after a center ball hit. So the "myth" is real from the unknowing's point of view. Check Schmidts crazy freakish scratch on his three hundred something run. I can't remember the exact number. I've only it seen that once but not nearly that bad. The rotational axis dropped slowly and the ball curved over almost a diamond into the corner pocket.
Another thing was the second part of "myth 3" I believe leads off topic although it is important to know it's got nothing to do with cue ball's path after the hit. The thing is we always over think the shot. We use English to cancel the CIT and this make the shots play easier but do we really need to? Not if you account for it but knowing the amount of correction varies with the equipment. You can get to anywhere on the table using just high or low and the right speed on most shots. It's when we have to avoid object balls or try to get shorter shots using side spin off the rail that it gets crazy.
@@MrADVANCEDTEK Concerning swerve, for the shots in my video, I think the swerve is happening before the CB reaches the OB, and this is already compensated for o achieve the desire ghost-ball position. Therefore, the swerve does not affect the tangent line or CB trajectory after the hit.
Concerning the John Schmidt scratch, see the video and explanation at the bottom of the page here:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/swerve/object-ball/
Concerning correcting aim for throw, over or under cutting the ball is an option, but using gearing outside english is also an option:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/sidespin/outside-gearing/
For good advice about where and how to adjust for throw, see the list at the bottom of the page here:
billiards.colostate.edu/tutorial/throw/
Thank you Dr Dave! A coach told me to play with my cue under my dominant eye and it screwed up my game for years. Recently I found my real vision center with your test but unfortunately I am still swiping the ball from all those years of playing wrong.
I'm glad to hear my stuff has helped. I think "vision center alignment" is one of the the most important fundamentals of pool. FYI, if you want to straighten that stroke, the videos here might be helpful:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/stroke/
Enjoy!
I just recently started getting more dedicated to getting better at pool and am so very grateful that your videos exist. I've already gotten better thanks.
ben gillespie I’m glad to hear it. FYI, all of my recent Top 10 videos, which have summaries of many important pool techniques and principles, are available here:
ua-cam.com/play/PLH9d4KFY28XtrkjqZMKZc3uB4Y5sWCjW6.html
Got a few ones, so gonna do several comments. Myth #9. The amount of spin is dependent on 1) contact position on CB 2) friction between tip and ball and 3) contact time between tip and ball.
Shot type affects 3): if you have a stroke that accelerates at contact, you will have a slightly longer contact time resulting in more spin for the same contact point. How much that is, I have no idea. Might be close to nothing, but probably not since most good players try to accelerate through the impact when trying to maximize draw, for instance.
See:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/contact-time/
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/stroke/acceleration/
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/sidespin/maximum/
Awesome information... The daft nerd retro brochure feel of the video was oddly satisfying.
One of the best video on the technique.
Thank you for busting Myth 7. I've been looking for information on bank shots where a cut angle transfers spin.
FYI, a lot more spin transfer examples (including banks) can be found here:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/throw/spin-transfer/
Your first example is interesting.. Elevating to get steeper draw.. That concept applies with a shortened bridge as well, and the shortened bridge will also help shorten banks with steeper angles, which helps playing hole.
A shorter bridge has no direct effect on draw or banks unless the shorter bridge causes you to use a different stroke speed or hit the CB in a different spot.
@@DrDaveBilliards
No cheat codes, Dave?.. We don’t all have the right arm of God, himself..
I think the 2nd myth about drawing better with an closed bridge has been around for a long time, with the belief that the closed bridge offers partial cue elevation whenever draw is needed, but not as much as an open bridge.
It can also keep the cue down if one tends to tighten their grip and arm during the stroke.
Thank you Dr.Dave, Dominant eye is important "I believe". Rest of the points are owesome.
"Dominant eye" is important only if it has an effect on one's "vision center" position. This is not the case for most people. For more info, see:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/eyes/dominant-eye/
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/eyes/vision-center/
Im blind in one eye so i align under my good eye but i still see light through the other but when i put on a eyepatch i can play with precision it feels like
I love hopping on UA-cam and seeing a new DrDaveBilliards video!!! Great content Doc!!!!
Thank you! This one took a lot of work, so I'm glad you like it.
@@DrDaveBilliards it's worth the work because it's fantastic content that noone else covers!!!
You really have billiards down to a science. Thanks for the great videos.
Hey Team, Thanks for the great video!
You're welcome! Thanks for the comment.
Extra bonus myth #11: You actually play better after a few beers
Unlike the previous 10 myths, this I've actually heard.
During my time as a student we had an idea to check if this holds water.
Test setup:
2 players playing 8-ball for 10 sessions of roughly 3 hours. One person to keep score. Both players had separate score cards. Both players used same equipment for all test sessions.
Both players drank beer, starting sober and stopping after 6 beers (0.5 liters each). Assumption here was that if there was point of drunkenness where you played better, it should be well before you are totally wasted.
The score keeper kept score in 5-minute slots. He wrote down each shot where we actually tried to pocket the shot, marking down if the shot went in or not. Same 5-minute slots were used to mark when we bought a new beer.
Eventually this data was used to estimate the drunkenness (based on speed of beer consumption, burning off of alcohol already in blood and weight of the player). Then this was used to transfer the shots from 5-min slots to drunkenness slots (we used 10 slots here).
The plot of that data showed a rather linear drop in shots made (as a percentage).
After being surprised by that, we assumed that maybe this was due to us trying to pocket harder shots as we got more drunk and thus bolder and overestimating our own skills. There was a tiny increase in shots takes as you go up the drunk-scale, but not enough to explain but tiny minority of decrease in pocketing percentage.
Not enough to prove it in general terms, but if I was on Mythbusters, I'd say "BUSTED"
I actually wrote an article about this many years ago. Check it out here:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/advice/alcohol/
@@DrDaveBilliards "The belief that a small amount of alcohol can help some people play better is just a theory based on anecdotal evidence," says Dave Alciatore
I know my test was not very scientific, but it's the most scientific test data I have seen. And it says that there is no "sweet spot", you get worse even after 1 beer. We all (test participants) both expected and thought after running the tests that there was a sweet spot. The data showed us that there wasn't.
@@mikkosalmi4918 FYI, there have been some scientific studies. They are mentioned in the articles at the links at the bottom of the page here:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/advice/alcohol/
Do softer tips,.or thinner shafts give more spin or draw?
No. See:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/
and:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue/low-squirt/#spin
and:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/sidespin/tips-and-percentage/
Enjoy!
This was a very helpful video. Thank you for making/posting this!
For my money, there's no greater way to end an introduction segment than "Well, let's start debunking."
Just stumbled on this page, where have you all been. Great info, new sub and greetings from Alabama.
Excellent! Lots of complex physics at work here.
I'm sorry but... Finding your dominant eye is the first step in finding your vision center, so it is important just it is not sufficient. Where your vision center is, literally depends on which eye is dominant and how much it is dominant. Now, aligning 100% with a dominant eye fails in pool even if the other eye is blind or just shut close. Reason for that is that your depth perception is impaired when using just one eye to make a shot. If both eyes see the balls, both eyes are participating in determining the vision center. You will always end up with moving your cue position to some degree towards the dominant eye or tilting the head slightly to the left or right to align the vision center to your position instead the other way around. If you don't know which is your dominant eye but you are making shots consistently anyways, it is easy to figure it out just by observing your position or head tilt.
You can find your vision center without figuring out anything about the dominant eye, but you will get there much faster by determining which one is dominant and for how much. Measurement is more reliable than intuition, if done properly.
Sorry, but this is simply not true. There is no correlation between dominant eye and vision center, unless you have an extremely dominant eye (in which case, your vision center position might be with the cue directly under your dominant eye). For example, many players (me included) have a vision center with the cue exactly centered between the eyes, even though most people (me included) have a dominant eye (mine is my right eye). And for some people, the vision center position is off center and on the opposite side of their nose as the dominant eye. The only way to find your personal vision center (which apparently has little or nothing to do with dominant eye for most people) is to do the drills and visualization tests at the table, per the videos and info here:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/eyes/vision-center/
Great stuff...... but, finding your “vision center” is relative to eye dominance. I did extensive research with an optometrist for pool and shooting rifles and when dealing with millimeters eye dominance is extremely important. Shoulder position changes relative to eye dominance. Some of the greatest monsters of the game I’ve ever seen changed their stroke based on eye dominance. I fear that ridged instruction limits some peoples ability to find something new and different that may work for the individual. When Master Bill told me to put my cue under my left eye, my shot making jumped to pro level.
Slate Matthew unless you are blind, you use two eyes to aim not one. Vision center is where both of your eyes see a straight line. That maybe under one eye or the other, but for most people it’ll be somewhere between the eyes.
Yes, but if you have a dominant eye the stick will favor that side. If you dont, you will not be aiming where you think. This was taught to me by a great road player and I have taught this to professional players. Their response has been very positive. “I’ve never sighted the ball better” is the usual reaction.
Slate Matthew yes maybe favour one side over the other but it is unusual for the vision center to be directly under one eye.
matthew ryder Agreed. How bought Strickland? Out past his dominant eye at times!? Crazy. There is a guy from texas plays with his stick ten inches to his right side. His head is literally no where near his stick. He plays just below pro level. Sick. Lol
Slate Matthew just goes to show how adaptive the brain is.
Just phenomenonal knowledge here. Great stuff.
Well. I think it is important to distinguish the words, from the intended meaning. I doubt many people really believe that you can increase the net value of spin you impart on a ball. What they most likely mean, which is not theoretically, but practically true, is that you can use much more sidespin in your actual games, because you dont have to deal with the difficulties of deflection as much.
I assume you are talking about the swoop/swipe stroke. If so, you are right that it might help some people compensate for CB deflection without having to think about it. But this won't work for shots of all speeds and distances.
Your giving out gold hear.
I'm glad you think so. FYI, I have a lot more myth-busting stuff here:
billiards.colostate.edu/myths/
The dominant eye intrigued me given that I'm blind in my left eye. Far sighted in my right. Im going to take note of my alingment next week at our afternoon pool get together.
If you have vision only in your right eye, your right eye should most certainly be right over the cue. Although, if you haven't learned this way, it might take time to get accustomed to it (but it should be better in the long run).
@@DrDaveBilliards thank you. I will try it out and see how my brand n takes it all in after 59 years.
Brain not brand.
Wow! This video is pure gold!
Hi Dr.Dave, great instuctional video as always! I am wondering if the acceleration of the tip (rather than the velocity) has any effect on the cue ball. At around 9:00 of the video, you claimed that only velocity on contact matters (assuming all other variables stay the same). But from my own experience whether the tip is acceleting or decelerating through the cue ball also cause different effects. i.e. cue ball has stronger spin even when they are hit at the same spot.
On top of that, how much difference would two tips with different hardness make on cue ball behavior? Alao assuming the tip hits the cue ball at same spot and with same velocity on contact. Thanks!
For a typical stroke, acceleration has practically no effect whatsoever, assuming the cue speed at tip contact is the same in the comparison. For more info, see:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/stroke/follow-through/
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/grip/light-vs-tight/
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/stroke/acceleration/
A harder tip can result in more speed (and therefore more spin) for a given cue speed. For more info, see:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/efficiency/
Still not sure why this channel doesn't have over 1M subscribers.
I hope that happens some day.
Dr Dave an Ms Diep my 2 fav pool people.
In my respectful opinion there are several shots that I can hit the Qball in one spot to produce a result. Then turn around and hit the qball in the exact same spot but with a different stroke and get a completely different result. Like on a kill shot. Or like a safety shot where I’m only trying to get say 2 inches of backspin just to hit a rail or tuck the qball behind another ball. There are numerous shots that I can hit the qball and get different results depending on the stroke. Imo , or either I’m simply not understanding you to begin with. A long green cut shot, i can put a lot of bottom on the qball but use a kill stroke. Apply just enough bottom that as the qball rolls backwards down the table 2/3’ds of the way there the bottom wears off and the qball then turns back into top spin. However it allows the qball to slow way down just before contact and let’s me hit the object ball super soft from a long distance. Especially if the table isn’t straight and rolls off on soft or slow shots. You use any other stroke and the kill shot will not work even tho your hitting the qball in exactly the same spot and even withsame speed
If you are getting a different result, you are hitting the CB with a different speed or at a different angle or at a different tip contact point. For more info, see:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/stroke/type-and-quality/
3:42 You cut the ball into the side pocket twice. The object ball was cut just enough to pocket it, demonstrating throw, the the cue ball traveled almost directly over the racking spot both times. The third shot had the most cut to it, but with outside english, and the cue ball traveled ABOVE the spot, not over it or below it as the greater cut would suggest. I believe you may have debunked your own debunking on that one Dave.
TheJurgisRud I think Randy might have had a touch of backspin on that third shot, but it is also possible he hit it a touch thick. Regardless, the SIT was clear. FYI, I’m working on a follow-up video, that will make this more clear. Stay tuned.
Thank u. Number 10 was best I can't wait to try it out.
I'd say 60%-70% I use an open bridge on draw shots. Great Vid Doc!
The only advantage a closed bridge has is that if u want to hit it harder to get more draw, u eliminate the risk for the cue to slide of your hand
I use the V closed bridge for all my Superman break shots. Every blue moon on side cushions.
Hello Dave
I got to tell you when I watch Efron stroke the ball and I'm sure you've noticed it how the butt of his cue goes up and down a lot.
But it works for him.
Keith
I think that is mostly to stay loose and relaxed. On his final stroke into the ball, the elbow is more still and the tip hits where he is aiming on the CB.
@@DrDaveBilliards that very well could be everybody has their own style and afrin has a great one it works for him
Thanks so much for this video. The information is going to be very helpful when I’m practicing and in my game play.😁👍
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@11:40 Thanks for that tidbit. I am a snooker player and I have noticed that Mark Selby does this on every shot he takes. There are point in times of his snooker matches when the TV cameras looks directly at him as he takes the shot and you will see him move his head square from left to right. I always suspected that he was making sure he was aiming correctly by reassuring himself that he is on his vision center.
Thumbs up xD #smashThatLikeButton
Satobatsu Kaiba I’ve been watching mark for a while now. He didn’t use to do this but yes that’s exactly what he’s doing. I’ve noticed his game has dipped a lot in recent seasons so it’s a shame he’s having these issues but it’s so common. He’s likely not happy with how true he’s striking the cueball. maybe his vision center has changed and he hasn’t found a natural setup from standing to on- the-shot position of his body and eyes yet
@@IFranchisedI I disagree. There are many reasons why someone's game can be off. Most of the time its personal/family related. Mark Selby is still one of the top snooker players. As far as I know, he is #2 in the world of snooker. The pressure of being #1 in snooker is really hard. He has to play many matches each year.
Satobatsu Kaiba yeah I know last year he played about twice as many tournaments as the world no 1. His game is off man, even he admits it. It’s form related not fatigue or psychological
@@IFranchisedI If I am having family or personal issues I won't tell the world. I would say its my form also. The world does not need to know my issues. Just saying
I'm also curios as some other people about myth 3. How does spin induced throw affect the CB line out after the contact? Let's say I hit the same contact point on the OB, stun shot, one with spin, one without. OB would be thrown because of spin induced throw, but I though CB would also be thrown in the opposite direction of OB (not sure if it would throw the same amount, I would think so)? So the tangent line should be different, even though we hit the same contact point on the OB and for some speeds and spins this could be significant if CB is far from the rail (up to 4 degrees irc)
On the other hand, let's say I hit the OB with the exact amount of english such that for the same initial OB and CB positions I hit exactly the same part of the pocket as with no spin. I would think that in this case CB follows the same line and hits the same point on the rail, because whatever the change in the initial CB direction was cancelled by the throw and in effect CB was thrown back to the old tangent line.
I am probably wrong in my thinking somewhere, but I'd appreciate if you could explain where exactly. Thanks!
Tero T See the replies to the “Fangzhong Li” comment. They cover it fairly well.
Check out my follow-up video dealing with Myth 3 subtleties:
ua-cam.com/video/ytFwsxJ3gA4/v-deo.html
Hey the one myth I believed was that side spin changes the tangent line. I now know that is false when the side spin is hit with no follow or draw. I wonder if this principle changes with follow or draw beyond what follow or draw alone would achieve. I've always felt like outside English makes the tangent line increase in angle in reference to the original cue ball path and inside English makes it decrease in reference to the original cue ball path. I will definitely do some experimenting of my own. Thanks for your time and dedication in making these videos!
The tangent line is always the same, but the CB trajectory can change per the info here:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/30-90-rules/sidespin/
Thank you very much. I really appreciate the info you provided!
FYI, my follow-up video deals with Myth 3 subtleties:
ua-cam.com/video/ytFwsxJ3gA4/v-deo.html
Very informative! I usually do closed bridge for drawing because I saw a podcast where Bustamante says a closed bridge gives you more control when drawing. But I do notice that open bridge is better lately. Was Busti wrong?
That might be right for him, but it is not right for all people in general.
So the answer is do what feels right still not debunked
@@TheQuintessentialOne That's not a myth. You always need to "do what feels right" in the end.
Next Myth #5: (LD shaft allows for more spin)
I really can't say anything definite on this, since I really do not know what the mechanisms are that make a shaft LD. But if whatever the mechanism is, creates a longer contact (shaft bends to the direction of offset from center, for example) then it should create more spin. Purely speculation.
But what I can say about the proof used to bust that myth is that the speed at which the CB hits the rail is very important when observing the angle of rebound. I can't tell from the video if the two shots displayed were made with same speed.
Even though faster speed at contact with cushion results in longer contact time (and larger contact area) and thus more force, that effect is not enough to compensate for the disparity between the force of the rebound and the sideways force created by the spin. Easiest way to state this is that the deflection in rebound angle is dependent on the ratio of the spin-to-speed.
Not trying to claim that myth was not busted, just saying that showing those 2 shots and drawing a line showing the deflection is not enough to debunk this myth if you have no way of making sure the shots had same speed.
See:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue/low-squirt/#spin
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/squirt/endmass/
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/contact-time/
@@DrDaveBilliards Thanks for the very informative links!
@@mikkosalmi4918 You're welcome. I aim to swerve. :)
7:10 - how can you be sure your problem is not CIT but the spin transfer?
It can be both. But even if you adjust your aim to compensate for CIT, cut-induced-spin (CIS) will still cause the misses.
I enjoy your videos dr Dave. You should do one on whether women can/should compete with men. I’m on a league with all men. They’re all very kind to me and help to teach me. But really, none of us see any good reason to have strictly male/male and female/female competitors.
A video and info on this topic can be found here:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/mental/gender-in-pool/
Enjoy!
Where is the summer boot camp located and where do I sign up 😃
Fort Collins, Colorado. All info is available here:
billiarduniversity.org/instruction/school/
Send me an e-mail if you want to be added to the contact list for new courses.
What state is the boot camp held in ?!
Great info.... but whrn do you play Billiards and not pool?
Thank you. Pool is "pocket billiards." I use the term "billiards" instead of (or in addition to) "pool" to make it easier for people to find my stuff via UA-cam and Internet searches. Most people don't know the difference, and search engines might think "pool" involves swimming.
Thanks all of you
I want to avoid to get in touch with my chest during the stroke , but i want to keep my chin as close to the cue as possible . Any advice ?
B.t.w. Sam has such a beautiful smile :) !
There isn't necessarily anything wrong with chest contact during the stroke, but you can eliminate it by using knee bend instead of waist bend to get lower. You can also change how open or closed your stance. FYI, you might find the videos and info on the following page helpful:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/stance/advice/
PS: You are right. Samm does have a beautiful smile (and personality).
@@DrDaveBilliards this is a very interesting subject to me but the solution you gave here with the cue hitting the chest is not for shorter players. Bu, in fact, YOU helped me with a serious stroke problem I had but in a way you probably don't realize. Let me explain:
In a previous video you demonstrated different strokes and mentioned that because you were tall you bent your knees. Well, I am not tall but I still bent my knees. This caused the cue, on the later part of my stroke, to brush my chest throwing the cue slightly off line.
To compensate I would put my right foot about five inches to the left of the shooting line to get more room. But this did not solve the problem totally and I was still very inconsistent, which was driving me crazy. So I used some advice or something you mentioned in the video I was watching.
Instead of bending me knees which brought my upper body down very close to the rail (because I am short) I
decided to simply put my foot slightly to the left of the shooting line, bend my left knee slightly, and keep my right leg straight, and bend at the waist. This has made a HUGE difference for me. It opened up about six inches of space from the cue to my chest. Now my stroke is MUCH more straight. The cue is NOT hitting my chest and throwing the middle or back end of the cue to the right which would slightly throw the tip of the cue to the left. My potting has become much better in just a week or so.
I played in a tournament here in Manila last night against some fairly good players, and although I did not win
I played well and most of the players mentioned my stroke looked more fluid and natural. So NOT bending so
much at the knees and bending basically from the waist and keeping my right leg straight made the issue with
the cue brushing my chest mostly go away or almost completely away. There is a downside though, my right
hamstring is sore as hell. But that will go away shortly and shows that maybe I need to get a bit more flexible
in the first place.
@@jamesdavis8731 Thank you for posting this. It might be helpful to others.
Great tutorial Doc.
Thank you. I aim to swerve. :)
@@DrDaveBilliards LOL Good one Doc.
Hello gang Even though my pool days are over with I'm listening
Keith
Number 3 is the most egregious! Sidespin does affect the cue ball off the object ball!
Chris Kuehnle See the follow-up video dealing with this myth:
ua-cam.com/video/ytFwsxJ3gA4/v-deo.html
If you are getting a different path off the object ball with side spin it suggests to me you are adding a slight touch of top or bottom without actually realising it or you are not contacting the object ball at the same touch point each time (slightly over or under cutting maybe), I used to believe the same as you when I was younger, but 20 years on I agree with Dr Dave....... it was me not playing it right or consistently originally
@@bmac7885 FYI, with inside follow (especially with cue elevation), the CB trajectory is slightly different both into and away from the OB, even with the same contact point as a rolling shot with no sidespin.
@@DrDaveBilliards cheers Dave :-)
Awesome video, thank you I got league tonight, I'll let you know how it goes
I hope it helps. If you want even more help for future weeks, check out all of the videos in my "Top 10" series:
ua-cam.com/play/PLH9d4KFY28XtrkjqZMKZc3uB4Y5sWCjW6.html
Great stuff you guys truly
I"m glad you liked it, even though you don't play anymore. :(
@@DrDaveBilliards you know how it is once it's in your blood it always seems to stay there
I do not understand how myth 5 is debunked. The low deflection cue can aim even further on the left in the shot you are demonstrating(at the exact spot the Players cue is aiming) and that would result in more sidespin from my understanding. I think the fair comparison would be that. Aim at the same spot on the cueball and hit a specific point on the rail and then check the rebound angles.
If you use the same cue direction for each cue, the CB will go in different directions. That's not a good comparison. A better comparison is what we did ... hitting the CB in the same spot with the CB going in the same direction. For more info, see:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue/low-squirt/#spin
Great video!👍🏻 thanks.
Thanks for the tutorials.
You're welcome. We aim to swerve. :)
People who are looking to improve on draw shots should watch Shaun Murphy, Neil Robertson and Judd trump videos. They can draw more than length of table on 12 foot tables and I can’t think of a single snooker player who uses a closed bridge. Yes the balls are fractionally lighter but they’re also smaller which makes precise cuing way more difficult as well and I can tell you those 1g aramith balls for snooker are not that much lighter than 2.25” pool balls
MZiggy There is also lots of draw shot technique advice here:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/draw/advice-and-drills/
Most snooker players already do these things well.
What about the PED's used in pool? Are they a myth as well or are some of them actually useful?
If you are asking about performance enhancing drugs, they can certainly help some people in some physical and mental states, but they certainly are not recommended (or legal in competitive play). And some are not very healthy.
Is the cue that Samm is using Players exotic E-3100?
Sorry, but I don't know. I think her shaft is a Predator Z-2.
Interesting info!
Great stuff
Thanks. FYI, a lot more can be found here:
billiards.colostate.edu/myths/
Enjoy!
Love these videos , I thought most of these were true !! Thanks gang 👍
Black cue ???? Wat cue do u use dr. Dave
Predator Revo (12.4).
Very nice video
Hey guys, thanks for another fabulous video. enjoyed your summercamp :-)
Udo H Thanks Udo! You were a great student. It was fun to see how much you progressed in such little time, and we were honored that you travelled so far to participate. I hope to see you again in the future.
great debunk
Thanks.
Great video
Thanks.
this is very helpfull..thank you
anthony mubanso I’m glad to hear it. You’re welcome.
I'm still not totally convinced by the myth 3 debunk :/ can we have more on this point?
but nice video, as usual :) thank you for your work and your website
More info on this topic is available here:
billiards.colostate.edu/tutorial/sidespin/
and here:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/30-90-rules/sidespin/
FYI, I just posted a follow-up video that looks at the CB and OB direction sidespin-effect subtleties. Check it out:
ua-cam.com/video/ytFwsxJ3gA4/v-deo.html
Since the spin on CB affects where the target ball goes, you will need to hit the target ball in a different spot to make it go to same direction, right? If that's the case, how on earth does that not affect the deflection angle of CB? Does the spin induced throw somehow conveniently cancel that effect out?
Good stuff doc
Klasse Video, super Erklärung. Hat mir richtig gut gefallen. Gruß Heiko
Google Translate: Great video, great explanation. I really liked it. Greeting Heiko
Thank you. I'm glad you liked it.
Side spin change the tangent line and you are wrong, though the "change" is not significant for pool but try Pyramid game where you should pocket the cueball in the narrow pocket, and you'll see it changes a lot!!!!
I Agree. I play billiards on a high level and I always input this into my game. Makes a big differences like on follow shots..
@@GJBilliards If you play Pyramid, cueball potting is the main technique that wins the game. if you put inside spin 30% bend after the follow through will occur earlier then with outside spin. That is why inside spin is the main spot for the cue ball potting because it is much predictable
Veritas Sidespin does throw the OB, and it can change CB trajectory a small amount (e.g., with an inside follow shot), but it does not change the tangent line. For more info, see:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/30-90-rules/sidespin/
FYI, I’m currently working on a follow-up video that will clearly demonstrate these subtle effects. Stay tuned.
@@DrDaveBilliards I recommend you to experiment on Pyramid tables when those throws are vital for potting (As I know there are pyramid tables in New York), or make and experiment at billiarding the object balls you will see the huge difference in some cases
what is the technique "SIT"?
jimmy fung Spin-Induced Throw. For more info, see:
billiards.colostate.edu/tutorial/throw/
I respectfully disagree with myth number 9. A kill shroke vs a follow through stroke makes a tremendous amount of difference in my opinion. As well as other shots.
Uncle Wreckum As I explain and demonstrate in the video, a different strike type can most certainly produce a different result, but only because it creates a different tip position or cue speed than a regular stroke. For the shot demonstrated, a regular stroke with a different tip position could have more easily created the same result.
@@DrDaveBilliards I disagree with number 9 too. Barry Stark's video 109. talks about timing and the quality of contact. They filmed snooker professional Michael Holt's shots with a high speed camera and determined that there is a difference between different strokes. English billiards players know how important timing and cueing through the ball smoothly is, and i suspect that carom players do too. Thanks for the video!
@@crazypiikkis Tip contact time can change with tip hardness, shot speed, and stroke acceleration, but these factors are not important to the action of the shot. All that really matters is the cue speed and tip contact point at the brief moment of contact. For more info, see:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/contact-time/
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/grip/light-vs-tight/
Now, having a smoothly accelerating stroke (with no deceleration into the ball) is definitely important for accurate and consistent speed control.
Thank you, thank you, thank you!
great info
I just saw your point...I stand corrected
Thank you for the follow-up.
He looks like Steve Jobs but with an orange shirt.
I wish I had as much money as he did.
DrDaveBilliards, by what you do, you actually should have as much money as him.
DrDaveBilliards, You deserve it.
#1 pool myth = Rudolf Wanderone could play pool and beat someone... somewhere.
Good one.
The best way to get maximum draw is to stand up straight and loosen your grip. Also myth 4 is wrong. Also myth 7 is wrong.
When you say Myths 4 and 7 are wrong, does that mean you agree with me, or does it mean you don't agree with my debunk logic. If so, why?
Well you’ve done it again DrDave, outstanding! You told me you would get Sam to dye her hair though, what’s up with that!?!? Keep up the great work👍🏻👍🏻
JD Tyler Sorry about the hair, but I’m glad you like the video.
The dominant eye one surprised me.
If you or others still need convincing or want more info, see:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/eyes/vision-center/
How about a detailed video on frozen cb and ob so we can clear this "foul shot" up???? Seems like a poisonous issue, only one video on youtube and it lasts all of 3 secs.
I'm not exactly sure what you mean. If you are asking about it not being a foul to hit into the CB if it is frozen to an OB, see the videos and info here:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/foul/frozen/
I want to know if this is a myth "Back leg that's on the shot line must be firm and straight for stability."
That is a myth, especially for tall people. See:
ua-cam.com/video/Uqw5sCEx190/v-deo.html
@@DrDaveBilliards it's hard to believe this as I was professionally coached by a renowned coach for a good few years, who was also coached by even more famous coach in billiards world and they always said that the back leg must be locked at the knee. Would you happen to see any pro pool player, who has both of their legs bent?
@@Bibhor4 Most pro pool players are short, so there is no reason to bend the back leg; although, Shane VanBoening is a good example. He bends both legs, and he isn't even that tall. There is nothing wrong with an solid and athletic bent-knee stance.
I see your point in the video, but I still think that the bending angle of both knees shouldn't be to the same degree or close to it. If you watch SVB, his back leg is a lot less bent that his forward leg, which is clearly visible. In your video, you bend both knees to the same angle and I think that causes unstable stance (especially for beginners).
I saw an amateur pool enthusiast play on the table next to me the other day (he regularly visits the same pool room, where I play), and he had both of his knees bent. I could see his legs moving causing his body to move also. I think the fact that his both knees are bent at the same angle, and the fact that he's a beginner hinders him from understanding how important it is to be stable. With locked knees or fairly straight back leg, there's one less thing for him to worry about. If you're tall, spread the leg further back to bring your center of gravity down, and it also allows you to touch the cue with your chin. This will also not cause the legs to be tired while playing long hours.
@@Bibhor4 You are correct that one can easily move one's head and body with a bent-knee stance, but it is also easy to move the body and head with a locked-knee stance. You are also right that spreading the feet farther apart can help a tall person get lower without having to bend the knees as much or at all. Believe me ... I have tried every variation, and the one that works best for me is an athletic stance with both knees bent. I don't have strain in my neck, back, hamstring, or ankles, and it feels very solid. I have seen lots of bad amateur stances (feet too close together, both feet in line with the shot, too much weight on back foot, too much weight on front foot, too open, too closed, etc.). There are lots of things that can go wrong ... moving the hips during the shot, moving the torso during the shot, moving the head during the shot, bending one or both knees during the shot, dropping or swinging the elbow out during the shot, not having the head in the right place, etc. Having both knees bent in a solid athletic stance is not an issue at all if all of the other things are OK.
It's difficult to imagine someone who knows the terms "throw" or "spin transfer" saying that they are not important.
Agreed.
Willie Mosconi stated that whenever possible, a closed bridge should be used. An open bridge allows for a failure mode on those with stroke issues. I have yet to experience a shot condition where I was unable to shoot with a closed bridge, and no, it isn’t a “band-aid”. You are simply trying to bolster your claims.
A closed bridge is certainly the best choice for some people. However, an open bridge has advantages, per the info here:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bridge/open/
That's why all snooker players use it. It is also why more and more pool players use it (especially the younger ones).
Myth 10... tell that to Niels Feijen 👍🏻😅
and to Earl too
Big Thanks !!!!