Something of note: at 5:37, you make reference to a post by a forum moderator about whether the Boss Rush mode was used with permission. That user in fact has worked with Nicalis in some capacity for many years, including a stint as a full time employee (notably working on Cave Story+ for Switch). Of all users on the forums, he's probably the most credible when it comes to information like that!
@@w4terbucket i rarely even hear people talk about cave story. not only does pixel barely have any fame, his game is rather obscure unless it's a conversation about early indie games.
Nicalis just took down CSE2, a fanmade engine decompilation of the original freeware version for "copyright infingement" [and linking Cave Story+ to it despite that CSE2 has nothing to do with it?]. Hopefully this was just a mistake but If not, Nicalis has a lot and I mean A LOT of explaining to do.
This nicalis mystery is hurting my head. There are so many dead ends with people saying this, and that, and people saying the opposite. It's impossible for me to know if it was stolen or not anymore, and it was even like this back then. This investigation keeps getting more and more confusing, with rumors, and facts that keep fucking converging together to make this blob of misunderstanding. How do people keep lying about this, and I don't even know if they were lying. I love cave story, it's one of my favorite games, but why is it so contraversal.
just forget about this thing you see. better to center in your life to try to understand the life of a developer using social medias that never will show the true except from the creators. live your life and nothing more.
I think that the fact that he is friends with both nicalis and Jason on Twitter is pretty damning. Why would he stay friends with them if he didn’t have a good relationship?
What about The Ancient Kingdom or the Mimiga? Only Quote & Curly's story can arguably said to be "complete". Even then we don't completely know happened with them before or after the story. There's so much left to explore.
Thank you very much for being honest and true in making this video. It’s very easy to just talk about how evil people can be and to point fingers, but you made a thorough investigation in order to discover the truth, and that’s what good people do. Have a good one, friend.
Seconded. Also props for the exhaustive list of links in the video description. And also for including timestamps for the individual 'documentary chapters'. Most UA-camrs use 80% of that description for self-promotion; this is more like a sincere list of references. Much appreciated!
Fantastic video! Despite being super involved with Cave Story for around 10 years now, there were a couple key pieces of the puzzle I was missing. I'm glad that I finally have them now.
Not just on Steam, all of the sale versions of the port on PC are in the same position. I think the same may hold true for other console ports too. Which is sad.
This is the same man that made the American Dad speedrun video. My God. Seriously though, great video. I've done my own searching for answers prior, but this video definitely helped clarify things that were and weren't out there.
Damn, turns out the big reveal I was hoping for in the video ended up being in the comments, haha. I would have totally missed that if it weren't for your comment. Voice and intonation sounded familiar, but I merely assumed it to be similar to some other reviewers I had seen before.
It's worth noting that Edmund split from any future projects Nicalis back in September. Also, I acknowledge this is anecdotal, but I had my own shitty interaction with Tyrone. Back when the Afterbirth+ DLC for Binding of Isaac came out, a new item was included in the game called Mama Mega. This item causes a very quick white flash across the fullscreen. This has, without fail, given me migraines, as I am photosensitive to flashing effects such as I didn't ask Tyrone to remove this item or it's visual effect, however I did ask if it would be possible to have an option disabling these kinds of flashing effects. Tyrone in all his wisdom decided to respond by saying "That's on you, maybe you shouldn't be playing video games." In retrospect I should've screenshotted the tweet, it has since been deleted. Having heard about all this recently, I can't say I'm surprised at all. I've also talked to a few people who had some less than stellar interactions with Tyrone as well. So Tyrone, if you read this, you're a scumbag, fuck you.
@@pyroball602 What? Are you lacking reading comprehension? I'm blaming him for going out of his way to be a douchebag in response. He could've just said nothing, and I'd have held no opinion of him (up until this video and the rest of the allegations). Hell, I followed him on Twitter up until that point. The industry as a whole needs to think more carefully about accessibility options, but in terms of Tyrone, it's about his dickish reply. Also, I'm not the only person with photosensitivity issues who plays Isaac, plus once mod support was added, a mod was released really quickly disabling that flash so him telling the team to put it on their to do list would've been a real quick fix, so... He went out of his way to be a dick, end of story.
A certain group of Canadian friends would repeat this claim for years and yeah Nicalis sucks, but this claim was always filled with holes. The closest thing I could ever find was years ago on Edmund's Tumblr page, where he was asked if Nicalis or Pixel owned the CS IP. The last he checked was he needed to asked Pixel for permission (they wanted to put CS characters into Super Meat Boy.)
Thanks for your thorough and impartial work on this video. While I might have been watching to confirm my own biases, I wouldn't have the information any other way than as you've presented it. I can only hope that as little is as true as possible, for Amaya-san's sake more than anything else.
Super interesting. I had just heard in passing the past few months that they stole it, and thats what the general idea was in my mind. So yeah, just because someone is an awful person doesn't mean everything they do is awful.
Thanks for compiling everything into an excellently formatted video! I had always thought Nicalis stole the IP for some reason or another, even though I never personally did much digging into the game's history. I wonder how the concept became so widespread. Please keep making more videos!
Yeah I felt the same way, it just kinda felt likely, which is probably how most people feel about the situation. Since this video came out nicalis has done even more with cave story alongside keeping up communications with Pixel which relieves me. I don't ever want to spread misinformation so if anything to the contrary was to come out about the situation I would likely unlist this video and try to put together a revision.
I heard a while back that Pixel only owns the original freeware version of cave story but not cave story + which means that nicalis didn't really steal the ip from him. Anyways, this video is great.
I can't speak definitively but Nicalis probably does own the rights to Cave Story+ specifically. Which makes sense considering they created new assets for the game alongside new music arrangements and whatnot. It's like how while Edmund McMillen owns the rights to the Binding of Isaac, at the end of the day Nicalis employees worked on and released Rebirth.
Nice video! Regarding 7:04 It's pretty much Nintendo's rule that the digital version of a game must match up with the physical version. IMO Nicalis should have made 2 physical versions of cave story. 1 for just the game, and 1 with the extra stuff.
Vaguely emember hearing about this idea/rumor back when Cave Story 3D was announced. That only the original Cave Story + Ikachan bundle from 2004 would remain was for certain. Good video.
@@piston1981 I mean, being involved with Cave Story more than Pixel himself has in the past few years, not only with forums but with modding and even organya renditions, I wouldn't not be surprised at all (though I really have to appreciate the Switch version for actually having Niscalis reaching out to the community somehow for the game this time).
An Indie Brand Murder Mystery _and_ Cartoon Intro Speedrunning Progression? I see you stay true to your name, TectonicImprov. This is some next level unconventional documentary variety.
The thing that really bothers me is, if someone wants to do a collab and add Quote and Cave Story to said collab (for example, smash bros), who they should be asking for the rights of the character? Nicalis or Pixel?
This is probably the case. Piling on is the biggest pastime of the internet after all. Obviously if someone, or their company does wrong? They also crucified Jesus and are worse than Hitler.(The last bit was sarcastic, just for those who might have missed it.)
2024 here! I’m years late but thanks for all of the info, I’ve wondered for a long time what really went down back in 2019 but never bothered to search. I just checked steam after watching this and it looks like all update history for CV+ was deleted from the platform! Guess it truly is abandoned.
This video is pretty good, it really does change my perspective on the situation. To me as just a viewer it just seems like Studio Pixel has good graces with Nicalis but the hesitation to bring up any conclusive evidence and instead have subtle clues and instances formulate the argument really just makes the problem linger on... irritating on both Tyrone/Nicalis and Studio Pixel's part from some sort of external force. It's somewhat simple to view when looking at just both those two, like the info you bring up does make both sides seem to be in good graces with each other especially since Studio Pixel seems to be Nicalis's best bud for boosting them up. But to other stories with other teams and developers it sorta gives me the impression that Nicalis does not have a solid structure on how to handle situations with other teams yet to the point of callout stories when it comes to the treatment or some other stuff. It sorta makes Nicalis to me sorta look unprofessional and substandard in communication with other people that aren't Studio Pixel themselves. Which doesn't sound good also unless if everything about all the stories for other developers and their graces is mentioned. This is just from what I'm thinking as not a deep diver, sorry for the long comment!
Very well put-together video. I perfectly agree, while it doesn’t seem like Nicalis stole Cave Story, that doesn’t bring Tyrone off the hook for everything else he’s done. I really hope he’s turned things around at Nicalis since that exposé.
I've always thought this theory was kinda dumb. There's so much going against it. Like you said in your video, if they stole Cave Story from Pixel, why would Pixel let them publish Ikachan on 3DS? Why were they involved on the original Gero Blaster? Why is Pixel still following them on his Twitter? Why do Tyrone and Pixel (appear) to be on good terms? And honestly I think the comparison with Kero Blaster's story is a huge stretch. I don't think it communicates the idea of "they scammed me out of my IP" at all. I think this is just a case where people repeat the things they hear without doing any of their own actual research. People are more inclined to believe it because Nicalis/Tyrone have done some terrible things in the past. Though I guess that's their fault for having that reputation. But anyways, good video. Hopefully more people see this.
Thank you for doing all this research - I heard about the controversy with Nicalis several years ago, and have since assumed that the accusations of stolen IP were true. I'm glad to learn that there is at least some ambiguity, if not an outright clearing of the air regarding this accusation, and that Pixel seems to be doing just fine.
The behavior of Nicalis , specifically that of Tyrone Rodrigeuz, makes me glad I got their version of the game free on the Epic Games Store. Not to mention the fact that there are some issues still in the game and it is missing features that the Switch version has. STILL. Seriously, after all these years we should have gotten those updates. One of the reasons I appreciate Concerned Ape so much. He still hasn't abandoned Stardew Valley after so many years, which is such a touching gesture to his game's fans.
It's possible that Pixel signed a deal that gave away the rights to Nicalis while also making it impossible for them to make a sequel. To note is that there were instances of contract loopholes being abused to keep the rights to a property. Two example I can note is whit the original watchmen comic. The comics contract specified that the ownership of the world and it's characters will be under DC for as long as the original series is still in print. So DC has been printing the original comic every few years mainly because they'd lose the rights if they didn't. The expectation of the artist was that they wouldn't do this so he didn't pay attention to any possible loop holes. Another instance of copyright tomfuckery is whit Spiderman. Disney owns the character but Sony owns the movie rights. So Disney can't put Spiderman in to any of their movies whit out getting permission from Sony first despite owning the character. So it's possible that the speculative contract that screwed over the og dev states that Nicalis owns the rights to publishing games within the series while also specifying that they can't make a sequel with out the permission of the IP owner. What I said here is just speculation and shouldn't be taken as evidence, but I feel like there is still a reasonable amount of doubt to be had that the deal wasn't one that screwed over Pixel in the long run. So I suggest that any one who might be reading this to not take sides till this is either confirmed or denied by Pixel. If there were any updates to where the story ends for this contreversy, feel free to discard this comment.
Thanks for the video! Damn, I wish there was more information on this matter. I'm immensely grateful to Pixel for blessing us with Cave Story, and Nicalis' boss definitely seems like a shady and unsavoury person, but I think the whole IP stealing thing and Keroblaster being an allegory for it is a bit too much of a conspiracy theory. I get that Nicalis has garnered a bad reputation and rightfully so, but I wouldn't go as far as to accuse them of that kinda thing, especially when there's little to no evidence of it having happened.
thank you very much for making this video; there's a lot of weirdness surrounding this whole situation and it's nice to get some clear answers, at least where this specific instance is concerned. i love cave story +, i bought it years ago and i think it's still the best way to play cave story, thanks to the new graphics, music, and modes.. except i feel weird recommending it considering Nicalis's misdeeds. i'm at least glad to know that, based on this video's evidence, i'm fairly convinced that buying cave story + at least isn't hurting pixel in any way. that much at least is relieving.
woah, more people should see this since everyone on twitter's pretty much like "yeah they stole it" with no proof or anything you know how it is, they just kinda all agree at once
I mean, it could be like anime where nicalis does have the rights to publish the game in the west while not actually owning the game, and it could just be convenient for pixel to just use nicalis if a port for cavestory is ever desired. The info doesn't really say much, but we can assume nicalis does have some level of rights to the ip if they are able to use quote and curly in a few crossover games they have made. Like blade strangers or crystal crashers. But that knowledge alone can't say either way. Anyways as for cave story itself, its easily one of my favorite indie games of all time, pretty much my favorite until I had played hyper light drifter. That said I still have played cavestory more than hyper light, but you know. There was like 10 years between both games initial launches. Also idk if a sequel to cavestory is a good idea, maybe a spiritual successor at most borrowing many elements of cavestory, but i don't think it should be called cavestory in any way. And should absolutely not star quote or curly.
You mentioned that they abandond steam port which is only kinda true, they are gonna be updateing it soon but I don't know what they are gonna add but some workers who happened to be in a cs+ speedrun discord im in were asking for what glitches and stuff they found in their games, mostly the switch port. but they did say something about pc
I'll believe it when I see it, personally. Keep in mind I made this video over a year ago. So I can't exactly account for future information like what you mentioned.
I blame Nicalis for the death of Yatagarasu:AoC. It was shaping up to be a great fighting game the could become even better with further support, but the support from the publisher, Nicalis, was basically nonexistent.
Remember, not only is the freeware version of Cave Story free, it’s better. Sure, Cave Story + has a lot of fun doodads and extra modes (and I even bought the Switch version to show my love and support for the game), but the new translation is much worse in comparison; it makes it hard for me to take it seriously. If you care about dialogue and story in your games at all, then I highly recommend just playing the freeware version.
Aether He had involvement in those too. He approved all of it. It’s 100% fine if you don’t like it, but you have to understand that Pixel worked on this stuff
High quality video... Why u have so low subscribers? You need more Anyway, I agreed with others ones, Pixel Studio deserve money for his awesome games (especially Cave Story, masterpiece of the Metroidvania and indie game in general), not Nicalis
When I play cave story on PC I play switch version pirated on emulator because it is the only version with multiplayer and only version that receives updates
@@TectonicImprov to me it is the definitive version. i love the classic pixel art, i love the classic chiptunes, i dont really like any of the remastered stuff. its just cave story. and i love it the way it is. theres no fuss, you just load up the game and are immediately playing. its kinda hard to explain. i just like the shareware version better
@@TectonicImprov that screenshot where a guy was commenting "Uhh mind your own business. Your not entitled to know all the background on cavestory and...."
The silence is weird. If there are no problems, Pixel or Nicalis would have cleared it up by now. The silence indicates an NDA. Pixel wouldn't perpetuate false drama for fun?
@@TectonicImprov Then try to find some Japanese translator who will translate the question properly. Then we can take language barrier out of the equation.
in nicalis twitter, pixel actually did a video talk about secret santa, cave story spin off. i donno but i guess this allegation in this vid is debunked ???
Thank you, so much for all the time and effort you put into this video. Cave Story is a game that is incredibly important to me so having a clearer understanding of the situation surrounding the game means a lot. 👍🏾
Ngl, I couldn't care less who made the remastered version. All I could care for is that we got updated textures and music. To anyone who's about to spam a bunch of replies along the lines of "you're heartless" and "it's deeper than you think", not interested.
So basically, Nicalis is the Konami of indie games by fucking over its creator of Cavestory and is just milking the IP with countless reports. I already made the mistake of giving them my money when I bought binding of Isaac, Rebirth, Afterbirth, and Afterbirth +. However, I will not be buying Repentance.
"ed mcmillen if that is your real name, i hereby challenge you to a lawyer off... not a real thing... do not answer, let me handle this... " thats ALL im going to say... if you want to know who i truly am... go to mossmouth...
I do have more evidence to prove that Nicalis MAY have stolen Cave Story. People made fan games of Cave Story using the source code that PIXEL GAVE AWAY, and then Nicalis copystriked the fans even though THE GAME DOESN’T EVEN BELONG TO HIM! He's currently working on an RPG called Cave Story Story, which would imply that Nicalis did in fact steal Cave Story. In fact, I always get the feeling that Nicalis loves to parade around the Cave Story brand like it's his. Especially if you visit his website. Although, I still find it strange on why Pixel would still be friends with the guy who stole his game. Maybe it's the language barrier? Or maybe Nicalis didn't steal the game after all.
Its not really "stealing" if someone shares rights with the publisher. Unfortunately, its standard practice for publishers and creators to share profits 50/50 with the publisher even though the creator made the media. Nicalis definitely saw the opportunity to give Pixel a standard 50/50 contract. Depending on the publishing agreement, Pixel probably doesn't want to make a second Cave Story because if he did, he'd have to share the same 50% profit with Nicalis. For Kero Blaster and Playism, its a new IP that circumvents the original publishing agreement and the split could've been 65/35 in favor of Pixel. If that were the case, Kero Blaster can sell less than Cave Story, but Pixel takes home similar profits. Make no mistake, Pixel made money off of Cave Story but if Pixel *knows* he can get a better contract somewhere else (due to reputation), he's going to take it. Just from releases over time, I'm sure he still gets checks from Nicalis so it doesn't bother him.
Considering the article gets statements from multiple people in the industry that have worked with nicalis I don't think I could've found a source of information more reputable than that article.
You know, Japanese producers are just as cuthroat and racist as Nicalis CEO. I just keep questioning myself why you think he's so bad and why Pixel didn't say anything. It's because he, and many other content creators of there, are use to it.
ed... when you read this... or when someone shows you... you kept the oath... you get to tell my story! so tell it! i'll let the people find out the rest. dont worry... im kept warm... you do the thing! dont worry... im full aware i dont know what im doing... so im serious... now or never...
you recognize the devolving character from our old friend? thats a tip... we do not appear to be who we are... yet... we are small and tightly nit... like a sock... like... something that knows when its watched... laughed at... used and abused... so why do you think he had continued my work? shovel knight had a similar life... we had given him life and freedom... live long and prosper friend... i will always support you...
dude... dude... if you are in japan... make a home movie! thats always good... they dont allow for video projects to be exported... so dont worry... say its for school! dont film the people!
Nah should stay quiet this actually none of your damn business lol it’s insane that you think you’re entitled to all the behind the scenes drama, and details of everything. You’re just not
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Something of note: at 5:37, you make reference to a post by a forum moderator about whether the Boss Rush mode was used with permission. That user in fact has worked with Nicalis in some capacity for many years, including a stint as a full time employee (notably working on Cave Story+ for Switch). Of all users on the forums, he's probably the most credible when it comes to information like that!
TOMMY TALLARICO JUMPSCARE
His mother is very proud
Daisuke amaya is a True hero in my heart, in all honesty, he doesn’t get the fame he deserves, and he clearly got the short end of the stick
He’s very well known.
@@robertbektas1810 Maybe in the indie scene but he'll sadly never be as known as Shigeru Miyamoto, Satoru Iwata or Masahiro Sakurai.
@@kernium hes well known enough for his game to be repurposed for new hardware and sold
@@w4terbucket i rarely even hear people talk about cave story. not only does pixel barely have any fame, his game is rather obscure unless it's a conversation about early indie games.
天才鬼才、採算度外視、そんな過去の日本のゲーム市場ですらこのようなものは作れなかった。
そのまま3Dゲームへ移行した。
社会に何か問題がある、または何らかの介入が存在する。
Nicalis just took down CSE2, a fanmade engine decompilation of the original freeware version for "copyright infingement" [and linking Cave Story+ to it despite that CSE2 has nothing to do with it?]. Hopefully this was just a mistake but If not, Nicalis has a lot and I mean A LOT of explaining to do.
I've been keeping an eye on these developments. Needless to say I'm disappointed yet not surprised nicalis would do something like this.
Nicalis is a jerk to fan projects in general, and seems to bully modders a lot including people providing their own music and the like.
This nicalis mystery is hurting my head. There are so many dead ends with people saying this, and that, and people saying the opposite. It's impossible for me to know if it was stolen or not anymore, and it was even like this back then. This investigation keeps getting more and more confusing, with rumors, and facts that keep fucking converging together to make this blob of misunderstanding. How do people keep lying about this, and I don't even know if they were lying. I love cave story, it's one of my favorite games, but why is it so contraversal.
just forget about this thing you see. better to center in your life to try to understand the life of a developer using social medias that never will show the true except from the creators. live your life and nothing more.
I think that the fact that he is friends with both nicalis and Jason on Twitter is pretty damning. Why would he stay friends with them if he didn’t have a good relationship?
@@petersummerhays7569 I think it's fair to assume that Pixel and Nicalis following each other on Twitter is strictly for business relations.
@@GigaMan91 they aren’t continuing business so it’s hard to believe he is also using his personal account.
@@petersummerhays7569 You can't be 'friends' on twitter, though. That's not what 'following' means.
cave story doesn't need a sequel. The game's story is complete, there is nowhere for it to go
What about The Ancient Kingdom or the Mimiga? Only Quote & Curly's story can arguably said to be "complete". Even then we don't completely know happened with them before or after the story. There's so much left to explore.
Thank you very much for being honest and true in making this video. It’s very easy to just talk about how evil people can be and to point fingers, but you made a thorough investigation in order to discover the truth, and that’s what good people do. Have a good one, friend.
Seconded.
Also props for the exhaustive list of links in the video description. And also for including timestamps for the individual 'documentary chapters'.
Most UA-camrs use 80% of that description for self-promotion; this is more like a sincere list of references. Much appreciated!
Wow this was super interesting! Thanks for putting this together
Fantastic video! Despite being super involved with Cave Story for around 10 years now, there were a couple key pieces of the puzzle I was missing. I'm glad that I finally have them now.
hi
faarting
Oh shit it's aar
Change your default settings
I'm so glad Tommy Talarico came with the idea of Kero Blaster, his mother must be very proud.
love how 3 years on steam cs+ is the same
so yeah i think its safe to say its abandoned
Not just on Steam, all of the sale versions of the port on PC are in the same position. I think the same may hold true for other console ports too. Which is sad.
This is the same man that made the American Dad speedrun video. My God.
Seriously though, great video. I've done my own searching for answers prior, but this video definitely helped clarify things that were and weren't out there.
Damn, turns out the big reveal I was hoping for in the video ended up being in the comments, haha. I would have totally missed that if it weren't for your comment.
Voice and intonation sounded familiar, but I merely assumed it to be similar to some other reviewers I had seen before.
11:35 *CONFIRMED:* Tommy Tallarico wrote _every song in Cave Story._
It's worth noting that Edmund split from any future projects Nicalis back in September. Also, I acknowledge this is anecdotal, but I had my own shitty interaction with Tyrone. Back when the Afterbirth+ DLC for Binding of Isaac came out, a new item was included in the game called Mama Mega. This item causes a very quick white flash across the fullscreen. This has, without fail, given me migraines, as I am photosensitive to flashing effects such as I didn't ask Tyrone to remove this item or it's visual effect, however I did ask if it would be possible to have an option disabling these kinds of flashing effects. Tyrone in all his wisdom decided to respond by saying "That's on you, maybe you shouldn't be playing video games." In retrospect I should've screenshotted the tweet, it has since been deleted. Having heard about all this recently, I can't say I'm surprised at all. I've also talked to a few people who had some less than stellar interactions with Tyrone as well. So Tyrone, if you read this, you're a scumbag, fuck you.
Maybe don't be epileptic next time.
You're blaming him... for not catering to you specifically?
@@pyroball602 What? Are you lacking reading comprehension? I'm blaming him for going out of his way to be a douchebag in response. He could've just said nothing, and I'd have held no opinion of him (up until this video and the rest of the allegations). Hell, I followed him on Twitter up until that point. The industry as a whole needs to think more carefully about accessibility options, but in terms of Tyrone, it's about his dickish reply.
Also, I'm not the only person with photosensitivity issues who plays Isaac, plus once mod support was added, a mod was released really quickly disabling that flash so him telling the team to put it on their to do list would've been a real quick fix, so... He went out of his way to be a dick, end of story.
@LexiPixeL hey wanna tell you that mama mega has a new effect that isn’t painful to see.
@@richardgibson8403 Thank you! I did see that it has a new effect, and a really friggin cool one at that! I really appreciate the response. :)
A certain group of Canadian friends would repeat this claim for years and yeah Nicalis sucks, but this claim was always filled with holes. The closest thing I could ever find was years ago on Edmund's Tumblr page, where he was asked if Nicalis or Pixel owned the CS IP. The last he checked was he needed to asked Pixel for permission (they wanted to put CS characters into Super Meat Boy.)
11:35 Speaking of stolen work, IS THAT TOMMY TALLARICO?!
Thanks for your thorough and impartial work on this video. While I might have been watching to confirm my own biases, I wouldn't have the information any other way than as you've presented it. I can only hope that as little is as true as possible, for Amaya-san's sake more than anything else.
Super interesting. I had just heard in passing the past few months that they stole it, and thats what the general idea was in my mind. So yeah, just because someone is an awful person doesn't mean everything they do is awful.
Thanks for compiling everything into an excellently formatted video! I had always thought Nicalis stole the IP for some reason or another, even though I never personally did much digging into the game's history. I wonder how the concept became so widespread. Please keep making more videos!
Yeah I felt the same way, it just kinda felt likely, which is probably how most people feel about the situation. Since this video came out nicalis has done even more with cave story alongside keeping up communications with Pixel which relieves me. I don't ever want to spread misinformation so if anything to the contrary was to come out about the situation I would likely unlist this video and try to put together a revision.
I heard a while back that Pixel only owns the original freeware version of cave story but not cave story + which means that nicalis didn't really steal the ip from him.
Anyways, this video is great.
I can't speak definitively but Nicalis probably does own the rights to Cave Story+ specifically. Which makes sense considering they created new assets for the game alongside new music arrangements and whatnot. It's like how while Edmund McMillen owns the rights to the Binding of Isaac, at the end of the day Nicalis employees worked on and released Rebirth.
Nice video!
Regarding 7:04
It's pretty much Nintendo's rule that the digital version of a game must match up with the physical version. IMO Nicalis should have made 2 physical versions of cave story. 1 for just the game, and 1 with the extra stuff.
Vaguely emember hearing about this idea/rumor back when Cave Story 3D was announced. That only the original Cave Story + Ikachan bundle from 2004 would remain was for certain. Good video.
GirAKACheezer was a programmer at Nicalis at the time of Cave Story+’s development so that may prove it wasn’t stolen but idk
Only during the release of the Switch port, not the previous ports.
Intriguing. He really has gone places, eh?
@@piston1981 I mean, being involved with Cave Story more than Pixel himself has in the past few years, not only with forums but with modding and even organya renditions, I wouldn't not be surprised at all (though I really have to appreciate the Switch version for actually having Niscalis reaching out to the community somehow for the game this time).
An Indie Brand Murder Mystery _and_ Cartoon Intro Speedrunning Progression?
I see you stay true to your name, TectonicImprov.
This is some next level unconventional documentary variety.
I like to keep people on their feet.
The thing that really bothers me is, if someone wants to do a collab and add Quote and Cave Story to said collab (for example, smash bros), who they should be asking for the rights of the character? Nicalis or Pixel?
Whole situation makes it feel like folks are just looking for a controversy that simply isn't there.
This is probably the case. Piling on is the biggest pastime of the internet after all. Obviously if someone, or their company does wrong? They also crucified Jesus and are worse than Hitler.(The last bit was sarcastic, just for those who might have missed it.)
2024 here! I’m years late but thanks for all of the info, I’ve wondered for a long time what really went down back in 2019 but never bothered to search. I just checked steam after watching this and it looks like all update history for CV+ was deleted from the platform! Guess it truly is abandoned.
This video is pretty good, it really does change my perspective on the situation. To me as just a viewer it just seems like Studio Pixel has good graces with Nicalis but the hesitation to bring up any conclusive evidence and instead have subtle clues and instances formulate the argument really just makes the problem linger on... irritating on both Tyrone/Nicalis and Studio Pixel's part from some sort of external force. It's somewhat simple to view when looking at just both those two, like the info you bring up does make both sides seem to be in good graces with each other especially since Studio Pixel seems to be Nicalis's best bud for boosting them up. But to other stories with other teams and developers it sorta gives me the impression that Nicalis does not have a solid structure on how to handle situations with other teams yet to the point of callout stories when it comes to the treatment or some other stuff. It sorta makes Nicalis to me sorta look unprofessional and substandard in communication with other people that aren't Studio Pixel themselves. Which doesn't sound good also unless if everything about all the stories for other developers and their graces is mentioned. This is just from what I'm thinking as not a deep diver, sorry for the long comment!
Very well put-together video. I perfectly agree, while it doesn’t seem like Nicalis stole Cave Story, that doesn’t bring Tyrone off the hook for everything else he’s done. I really hope he’s turned things around at Nicalis since that exposé.
I didn’t know Kero blaster got a physical! Damn now I gotta pay $60 for it which is the most I’ll pay but damn
Thank god someone made a video on this. I feel like no one in the world has seen the tweet with lots of comprehensive info
I've always thought this theory was kinda dumb. There's so much going against it.
Like you said in your video, if they stole Cave Story from Pixel, why would Pixel let them publish Ikachan on 3DS? Why were they involved on the original Gero Blaster? Why is Pixel still following them on his Twitter? Why do Tyrone and Pixel (appear) to be on good terms?
And honestly I think the comparison with Kero Blaster's story is a huge stretch. I don't think it communicates the idea of "they scammed me out of my IP" at all.
I think this is just a case where people repeat the things they hear without doing any of their own actual research. People are more inclined to believe it because Nicalis/Tyrone have done some terrible things in the past. Though I guess that's their fault for having that reputation.
But anyways, good video. Hopefully more people see this.
Thank you for doing all this research - I heard about the controversy with Nicalis several years ago, and have since assumed that the accusations of stolen IP were true. I'm glad to learn that there is at least some ambiguity, if not an outright clearing of the air regarding this accusation, and that Pixel seems to be doing just fine.
The behavior of Nicalis , specifically that of Tyrone Rodrigeuz, makes me glad I got their version of the game free on the Epic Games Store. Not to mention the fact that there are some issues still in the game and it is missing features that the Switch version has. STILL. Seriously, after all these years we should have gotten those updates. One of the reasons I appreciate Concerned Ape so much. He still hasn't abandoned Stardew Valley after so many years, which is such a touching gesture to his game's fans.
It's possible that Pixel signed a deal that gave away the rights to Nicalis while also making it impossible for them to make a sequel.
To note is that there were instances of contract loopholes being abused to keep the rights to a property.
Two example I can note is whit the original watchmen comic. The comics contract specified that the ownership of the world and it's characters will be under DC for as long as the original series is still in print. So DC has been printing the original comic every few years mainly because they'd lose the rights if they didn't. The expectation of the artist was that they wouldn't do this so he didn't pay attention to any possible loop holes.
Another instance of copyright tomfuckery is whit Spiderman. Disney owns the character but Sony owns the movie rights. So Disney can't put Spiderman in to any of their movies whit out getting permission from Sony first despite owning the character.
So it's possible that the speculative contract that screwed over the og dev states that Nicalis owns the rights to publishing games within the series while also specifying that they can't make a sequel with out the permission of the IP owner.
What I said here is just speculation and shouldn't be taken as evidence, but I feel like there is still a reasonable amount of doubt to be had that the deal wasn't one that screwed over Pixel in the long run.
So I suggest that any one who might be reading this to not take sides till this is either confirmed or denied by Pixel. If there were any updates to where the story ends for this contreversy, feel free to discard this comment.
Thanks for the video! Damn, I wish there was more information on this matter. I'm immensely grateful to Pixel for blessing us with Cave Story, and Nicalis' boss definitely seems like a shady and unsavoury person, but I think the whole IP stealing thing and Keroblaster being an allegory for it is a bit too much of a conspiracy theory. I get that Nicalis has garnered a bad reputation and rightfully so, but I wouldn't go as far as to accuse them of that kinda thing, especially when there's little to no evidence of it having happened.
7:05 Cave Story MERCH?!
Yeah the physical copies of Cave Story (at least the initial run) for the Switch came with some merch.
Nicalis should release some merchandise individually, honestly..
thank you very much for making this video; there's a lot of weirdness surrounding this whole situation and it's nice to get some clear answers, at least where this specific instance is concerned. i love cave story +, i bought it years ago and i think it's still the best way to play cave story, thanks to the new graphics, music, and modes.. except i feel weird recommending it considering Nicalis's misdeeds. i'm at least glad to know that, based on this video's evidence, i'm fairly convinced that buying cave story + at least isn't hurting pixel in any way. that much at least is relieving.
This video is 3 years old now, so I’m wondering if we have more information on the inconclusive controversies
Thank you so much for making this.
You I didn’t think I needed to know about this till I saw this video, so thank you OwO
Seeing Cave Story Tribute Site Froum screenshots in a proper video essay is fucking me up.
Understandable.
And it seems like this is still ongoing given that the secret santa has mixed reviews and feels rather uninspired.
Funny that I got recommended this the day after I bought Cave Story Plus
woah, more people should see this since everyone on twitter's pretty much like "yeah they stole it" with no proof or anything you know how it is, they just kinda all agree at once
Slowly but surely it's getting spread around. Best I can say is link someone this video if they start talking about that narrative.
I mean, it could be like anime where nicalis does have the rights to publish the game in the west while not actually owning the game, and it could just be convenient for pixel to just use nicalis if a port for cavestory is ever desired. The info doesn't really say much, but we can assume nicalis does have some level of rights to the ip if they are able to use quote and curly in a few crossover games they have made. Like blade strangers or crystal crashers. But that knowledge alone can't say either way.
Anyways as for cave story itself, its easily one of my favorite indie games of all time, pretty much my favorite until I had played hyper light drifter. That said I still have played cavestory more than hyper light, but you know. There was like 10 years between both games initial launches. Also idk if a sequel to cavestory is a good idea, maybe a spiritual successor at most borrowing many elements of cavestory, but i don't think it should be called cavestory in any way. And should absolutely not star quote or curly.
The boss at 0:53 is my favourite video game boss ever
he fast
You mentioned that they abandond steam port which is only kinda true, they are gonna be updateing it soon but I don't know what they are gonna add but some workers who happened to be in a cs+ speedrun discord im in were asking for what glitches and stuff they found in their games, mostly the switch port. but they did say something about pc
I'll believe it when I see it, personally. Keep in mind I made this video over a year ago. So I can't exactly account for future information like what you mentioned.
True, I dont know why I said that even though the news of this update is only 2 months old
@@heybra1216 3 years later and still no Cave Story+ update on Steam.
@@natsume-hime2473 :( false info from a discord server mb lol, it's most likely never gonna happen
I blame Nicalis for the death of Yatagarasu:AoC. It was shaping up to be a great fighting game the could become even better with further support, but the support from the publisher, Nicalis, was basically nonexistent.
Remember, not only is the freeware version of Cave Story free, it’s better. Sure, Cave Story + has a lot of fun doodads and extra modes (and I even bought the Switch version to show my love and support for the game), but the new translation is much worse in comparison; it makes it hard for me to take it seriously. If you care about dialogue and story in your games at all, then I highly recommend just playing the freeware version.
To each their own but I'm going to have to disagree. I think the Nicalis translation is perfectly fine.
TectonicImprov The translation had more involvement from Pixel, so, objectively, you’re getting a translation closer to pixel’s original vision
Not really a fan of the new graphics or the remixes anyway
Aether He had involvement in those too. He approved all of it. It’s 100% fine if you don’t like it, but you have to understand that Pixel worked on this stuff
High quality video... Why u have so low subscribers? You need more
Anyway, I agreed with others ones, Pixel Studio deserve money for his awesome games (especially Cave Story, masterpiece of the Metroidvania and indie game in general), not Nicalis
When I play cave story on PC I play switch version pirated on emulator because it is the only version with multiplayer and only version that receives updates
This is sick man.
i just play the freeware version
A perfectly fine way to play the game.
@@TectonicImprov to me it is the definitive version. i love the classic pixel art, i love the classic chiptunes, i dont really like any of the remastered stuff. its just cave story. and i love it the way it is. theres no fuss, you just load up the game and are immediately playing. its kinda hard to explain. i just like the shareware version better
@@shmoogit nope, switch version is defenitive
@@megapro1725 i said "to me" to imply that its just how i see it
well it's not that they stole it, they just scammed Pixel
thank you for making this video
If this is all true, i just feel awful for pixel i seriously loved cave story and i just wished for a sequel, and overall i feel bad...
This is an amazing video, keep it up!
Actually Cave Story came out on 2004, just a heads up, anyway great vid!
Yes but Nicalis' port released in 2010
@@TectonicImprov Oh I thought you were talking about the original, sorry
@@BossGamerDK it's okay!
Great video! Very informative!
Excelent video bro
I loved cave story
very nice
Seems pretty conclusive to me. As much as Nicalis screwed a lot of games, Cave Story was simply not one of them. Great video man.
I came here after seeing an insane tweet from... what I can only.hope is a nicalis employee
Hmm, what tweet?
@@TectonicImprov that screenshot where a guy was commenting "Uhh mind your own business. Your not entitled to know all the background on cavestory and...."
@@CidAghast oh lol. Yeah no clue what was up with that. I found it to be so baffling it was funny
Great unbiased video
The silence is weird. If there are no problems, Pixel or Nicalis would have cleared it up by now. The silence indicates an NDA. Pixel wouldn't perpetuate false drama for fun?
Have you tried asking Pixel about the theft theory? Like, on Twitter?
The problem with that is pixel avoids any queries about this. Whether that's due to the NDA or language barrier no one really knows.
@@TectonicImprov Then try to find some Japanese translator who will translate the question properly. Then we can take language barrier out of the equation.
@@UltimatePerfection with all due respect trust me when I say reaching out to Pixel has been tried in the past.
At least Epic Games is trying to solving this giving it for free
they weren¨t solving anything. It was just that game's turn to be free for a few days
Does this include the 3DS version?
in nicalis twitter, pixel actually did a video talk about secret santa, cave story spin off. i donno but i guess this allegation in this vid is debunked ???
Yeah I think that corroborates what I've said in this video. Whatever pixel and nicalis' relationship is it doesn't appear to be sour.
Too bad they did scummy stuff with 90s Arcade Racer
Great video! Personally I don't think they stole the IP but eh, we'll see I guess
I played Kero blaster before cave story too. Neat.
Such a good vid bud :- )
Thank you, so much for all the time and effort you put into this video. Cave Story is a game that is incredibly important to me so having a clearer understanding of the situation surrounding the game means a lot. 👍🏾
👍👍🏻👍🏼👍🏽👍🏾👍🏿
Id like to appreciate how he didn't heart scum in Hell
There has to be a cave story 2 before i die
Dude this video is awesome
Nicholas and Nicalis are not the same word
they ruined the game
Well screw you Tyrone for stealing Pixel’s rights to Cave Story!!!!!
Ngl, I couldn't care less who made the remastered version. All I could care for is that we got updated textures and music.
To anyone who's about to spam a bunch of replies along the lines of "you're heartless" and "it's deeper than you think", not interested.
yes
So basically, Nicalis is the Konami of indie games by fucking over its creator of Cavestory and is just milking the IP with countless reports. I already made the mistake of giving them my money when I bought binding of Isaac, Rebirth, Afterbirth, and Afterbirth +. However, I will not be buying Repentance.
"ed mcmillen if that is your real name, i hereby challenge you to a lawyer off... not a real thing... do not answer, let me handle this... " thats ALL im going to say... if you want to know who i truly am... go to mossmouth...
I do have more evidence to prove that Nicalis MAY have stolen Cave Story.
People made fan games of Cave Story using the source code that PIXEL GAVE AWAY, and then Nicalis copystriked the fans even though THE GAME DOESN’T EVEN BELONG TO HIM! He's currently working on an RPG called Cave Story Story, which would imply that Nicalis did in fact steal Cave Story. In fact, I always get the feeling that Nicalis loves to parade around the Cave Story brand like it's his. Especially if you visit his website.
Although, I still find it strange on why Pixel would still be friends with the guy who stole his game. Maybe it's the language barrier? Or maybe Nicalis didn't steal the game after all.
Its not really "stealing" if someone shares rights with the publisher. Unfortunately, its standard practice for publishers and creators to share profits 50/50 with the publisher even though the creator made the media. Nicalis definitely saw the opportunity to give Pixel a standard 50/50 contract. Depending on the publishing agreement, Pixel probably doesn't want to make a second Cave Story because if he did, he'd have to share the same 50% profit with Nicalis. For Kero Blaster and Playism, its a new IP that circumvents the original publishing agreement and the split could've been 65/35 in favor of Pixel. If that were the case, Kero Blaster can sell less than Cave Story, but Pixel takes home similar profits. Make no mistake, Pixel made money off of Cave Story but if Pixel *knows* he can get a better contract somewhere else (due to reputation), he's going to take it. Just from releases over time, I'm sure he still gets checks from Nicalis so it doesn't bother him.
idunno probably
I mean, this is interesting and all, but did you have to cite a Kotaku article? Couldn't you have found a more reputable source of information?
Considering the article gets statements from multiple people in the industry that have worked with nicalis I don't think I could've found a source of information more reputable than that article.
I wanna get a switch just for co-op cave story
just use multicave
Fucking awesome video
You know, Japanese producers are just as cuthroat and racist as Nicalis CEO. I just keep questioning myself why you think he's so bad and why Pixel didn't say anything. It's because he, and many other content creators of there, are use to it.
OH::: AND ANOTHER THING::: GOOD JOB YOUNGIN:::
ed... when you read this... or when someone shows you... you kept the oath... you get to tell my story! so tell it! i'll let the people find out the rest. dont worry... im kept warm... you do the thing! dont worry... im full aware i dont know what im doing... so im serious... now or never...
you recognize the devolving character from our old friend? thats a tip... we do not appear to be who we are... yet... we are small and tightly nit... like a sock... like... something that knows when its watched... laughed at... used and abused... so why do you think he had continued my work? shovel knight had a similar life... we had given him life and freedom... live long and prosper friend... i will always support you...
"so i read a craptaku article"
im gonna stop you right there
Exactly why I left a dislike on this video.
ed continued the work...
we got too many people in the family already in the limelight... you know? i use the easy tools... im not impressive, okey?
dude... dude... if you are in japan... make a home movie! thats always good... they dont allow for video projects to be exported... so dont worry... say its for school! dont film the people!
Nah should stay quiet this actually none of your damn business lol it’s insane that you think you’re entitled to all the behind the scenes drama, and details of everything. You’re just not