Hi Uncle Doug! I'm a contractor and clandestine vintage amp paint speckler. I probably put that paint on that amp. Whenever I paint I make sure there is a vintage amp in the room. It's usually specified in the contract. If a home owner doesn't want his vintage amp speckled with paint, I sneak up stairs and drag it out (when the owner is away at the bank getting my payment) and clandestinely speckled it with paint. I love your videos thank you for all the knowledge.
Thanks, Ben. I really appreciate your kind words, and the fact that you subscribed to my channel. Welcome aboard !! Hopefully you will find many more videos to enjoy.
I owned one just like that back in the 90s and loved the trem above any other I ever had in an amp. Swappy goodness. My main amp back then was a 1966 Gretsch 6166 Fury combo in mint shape. Wish I still had that amp.
Great informative video Doug II I have had my 6161 for approx. 35 years buying it at a swap meet for $40.00. It is in perfect original condition with the 6973's intact, orig. black paint on panel, mint grille cloth and tolex (NO paint spots). The serial # on the metal tag is T-38721 which I believe dates it to 1960 (?). I am missing the orig. tremolo foot pedal though and will have to look far and wide for one I am sure. In any case, keep up the great videos....MUCH appreciated !
Uncle Doug, I would like to Thank you for this site and the knowledge I have gained from it.... Very useful tips indeed.... The Video was also most helpful and welcomed... I recently purchased the same amplifier, and in the process of cleaning it up... I like toys that look as new as I can make them , ha ha... If you find the time, please keep the information and videos coming, there are many of us that don't have the knowledge or experience that other have it is a Great gesture on your part to share such good information.... Thank You...
You're quite welcome, Carl. Congratulations on a great new acquisition. The 6161 is a wonderful amp......I hope it serves you well for many years to come.
Thanks for the kind words, VA. In doing research on this amp, I hunted down several other examples, and all the unaltered ones had the tweeter and crossover, exactly like mine. Also, the speaker baffle has two large oval holes and one 4" round hole to match this speaker arrangement....all original. There is so much variation in Valco amps that the schematics, if you can find them, are rarely completely accurate.
Were valco building to a price they quoted and being a little cost saving in what they supplied , as long as no complaints they would get away with it ?
Thanks for your helpful comment and for subscribing to my channel. You'll be glad to know that since the video was posted, I have obtained a really nice, original knob which is now installed on the amp.
But now you need to make four more plain knobs for your next home made amp, I wonder if a gretch style but with less expensive push-pull would fit your collection ? If you dont want to invest in an engraving machine i guess a local trophy shop could inscribe something appropriate if you dont want plain.
Hey Uncle Doug & Rusty, Very nice rendition of 'Listen, do you want to know a secret', early Beatles Rule! Love the video's of cool old amps. Take care, be good, C.
+Cass Virgillo Thanks, Cass. It's strictly by ear....I've never looked up the proper chords for the tune.....but I'm glad you like it, and I'm glad you like the videos. Rusty and I wish you the best :)
I have this amp! I agree with your conjecture that the 6x11s are not original. The frames on mine are different. It's in storage so I can't check the serial numbers or take pics, sadly. I had it gone over by a tech a few years ago. Both of the 6x11s were torn, and it took forever for me to find a place to recone them. You mentioned 6973s were common in juke boxes. My tech noted the same thing. I thought, "Hey, Valco built juke boxes, too. Maybe call juke box people." I had gotten used to hearing, "6x11s, never heard of them. Are you sure they aren't 6x9s?" I called a place in Michigan. "Do you have cones for a 6x11 speaker?" "Yup." Long pause. "Uh, I said 6x11." "Yeah, how many you need?" "6x11s?" "Why you asking me? You want them or not?" Hilarious. I think he cussed me out a bit as well. One interesting thing I found out about the 6161: the output transformer handles anything from 2-16 ohms. I had my tech wire a speaker out that cuts out the internal speakers when plugged in. If I want to play loud, I plug this baby into a 4x12 cabinet and crank it up. *EH has been making 6973s in China, so they've come down in price, even some NOS from other brands.
Thanks, WW. I have bought transformers from them.....in fact, I even have an account with them (if memory serves) so I'll check into the availability of a new Gretsch knob.
This circuit really sounds great. I built one from scratch and had to change out every single large component for other ones trying to get the tone as close as possible. Even tried 6x9’s and a tweeter. Went with two 10”s (one ceramic and one Alnico) in the end. Yup, TWO different baffles,lol! Had to try two different power AND output transformers and 3 different set of output tubes(settled on new EH 6973’s) and multiple different preamp tubes. Even installed a voltage regulator after the rectifier to get the exact voltages since I couldn’t find a perfect replacement transformer. The Mercury output is fantastic tho. That was the thing that really got the tone 90% there. Anyways, it’s finally as close as I’m going to get it unless I find a Classic Tone power transformer that’s made for these types of Valcos. Don’t think that’ll happen anytime soon! Very happy with it tho! The trem is even better with an intensity pot. Quite easy to install. I don’t know why Valco didn’t use one. Thanx for showing us the amp,UD!
Suddenly I understand your tremolo obsession. This amp is beautiful. Almost fresh from the factory. Great sound, great looks. Valco should have taken the world by storm. And that trem is as slippery as... (add your own simile. Russian pole dancer, cat in axle grease, whatever). Cheers. 10/10.
Thanks so much for articulating the reasons for my obsession with good tremolo, Bill, and for Valco amps :) They did sell tons of amps under all sorts of names and achieved a level of popularity that rivaled many of the more familiar brands.....for good reason.
I'm a believer. They really knew their stuff. All of my amps are Fender. They have the best cleans that you can get in England, but Valco did it even better as far as I can tell. Keep 'em coming. (By the way, I keep noticing mild trem in recordings where I never noticed it before). Old dogs can notice old tricks, it seems.
@@billdyke9745 That's great to hear, Bill. Valco amps are generally a wonderful bargain, unless they happen to be a Supro that Jimmy Page once gazed upon back in the 60's.......and tremolo is ubiquitous.
7:26 - I notice the range of date-codes in a given amp is no more than around 6 months. Were components 'made to order' back then? I could see how big-ticket components like transformers would be, but caps and pots?
I believe the components were ordered in large lots and used until the supply ran low, then another lot was reordered. This would result in some overlap of dating, since older parts may lay at the bottom of the parts bin for a long while, with new parts being piled atop them. Transformers are probably a more reliable date source, since they were never put in bins.
Hey, that would be great. It really is such a distinctive knob. I'd love to find one. The closest I've been able to fabricate is from a chrome light dimmer knob from a wall switch with a slice of an old bicycle tube wrapped around edge. But it lacks the indentations that give the original that bottle cap look.
Chris, I believe the crossover network would protect the tweeter. Playing at 10 for any length of time would probably take its toll on the two large oval Rola speakers. On these vintage amps with original speakers, I never push them very hard. Correct NOS or good used replacement speakers are virtually impossible to find and I would hate to be the person who destroyed something that had survived so long.
Just a comment on the Standby Switch: that thing was created at a time where high-voltage caps were really expensive, so manufacturers would cut on costs by using caps which's voltage pretty much matched the B+ (250v caps for a 250v B+, for example). Because of that, you couldn't turn it on with cold tubes (high risk of damaging the filter caps), so the Standby Switch was introduced to pre-heat the tubes so the B+ would match. In reality, with properly selected caps, you could just turn it on.
Excellent! I've been looking for the distinctive oversized volume knob with rubber outer edge for an early 1960s National Studio 10 for quite a while now, so I know how hard it can be to track down these vintage parts.
Thanks, Kurt. I have a good guitar tuner and use it prior to each video recording session. It's possible that the limited capabilities of my camera microphone might degrade the tone a bit.
So here's the short of it. about 18 years ago I bought a modd-ed amp at a guitar place in MD. There were two used amps next to each other. The first home brew amp that had writing on the front in a "Star Trek type font". Both amps were brought in from the same guy. The star trek amp had black silicone all over the board, and I though what a mess, how could I ever fix this if it broke? The other rep said there was a contract to agree to if if I was going to buy it so when I asked how much it was, the manager said he was going to buy it, but I could have the other for @200 cause it had problems. I brought it home and started working on it but I was used to low voltage circuits and shocked myself like "the worst I had ever shocked myself". So since I had one very young son and one on the way, I threw it away because I didn't want the boys to get hurt. -- Some things I remember was the tremolo would move the speaker 3/8 forward and 3/8 backward at 0.5 hz and less. It was crazy weird. When it was fast, it sounded exactly like crimson and clover, when it was slow, it sonded exactly like the Who's we don't get fooled again. Many years later I realized the other amp was an alexander dumble, and the one I threw away was probably a dumble prototype. I still have the 4 10" speakers. the rest is gone, but I remember the tremolo action and was just wondering if your 1962 circuit self oscillated the same way. Currently I just ordered a ODS board set from Nik @Ceriatone in Malaysia, and I wanted to recreate that old tremolo in the new build. thx scotty
Scott, I have built several tremolo units, both electrical and electromechanical (there are videos posted for both), but I can't recall one that would move the speaker cone like you describe. Tremolo is a rhythmic fluctuation in volume, so the cone's excursion would vary at the same rate as the tremolo speed, but I'm not accustomed to seeing a cone move that much.....unless (maybe) the volume was set extremely high. Re the Dumble prototype, it's a real shame that you didn't keep it. Whoever was digging in the Dumpster that day really hit a home run......if they knew what they'd found (which seems unlikely).
There has to be an opening or two for ventilation, but you will have better bass response if there is something solid behind the speakers for resonance. Take a look at any modern speaker cabinet.....every one is sealed tightly to enhance the bass response. The only reason there are openings in the rear of combo amps is for ventilation.
Nice to revisit this video, Uncle Doug. You slowly explained the white paint specks in this one. I was laughing. I was looking at a Model 6161 Amp on Reverb and wondering how many watts. Apparently nobody puts Jukebox-6973s in them anymore so they all call them "14 watt" amps (because they use the similar 6BQ5s?) - Electro Harmonix is making new ones now so I found a pair of RCAs for $40. Maybe I'll do this ... hmmm. Now on to your latest video.
No more hum in the amplifier.Found an obvius mistake in my connections.I didn't ground the pentodes filament power supply line.Now it sounds like a dream.
Hi Doug, I came across this video you made quite some time ago. I am in search of a Rola 550-1 speaker the same speaker shown in your '62 6161. If you have any leads on where I might find one of these I would forever be in debt to you. Condition is not important as I would rebuild it if necessary. I am trying to finish a restoration of what I believe to be a Model 6166 '57 Gretsch Professional Hi-Fi Electromatic. Unfortunately one of the tweeters was replaced at some time and I would like to have matching 550-1s if possible. thanks again for all the great work you do.
You're quite welcome, Bill. You're in luck.....the folks at Vintage 47 have remade the Rola oval speakers and sell them at very reasonable prices. Check them out: www.vintage47amps.com/V47-Speakers/
Thanks for the link. But it’s not the oval speakers I’m looking for it’s the “tweeter”. My amp has 2 12” Jensen’s with two 5” Rolas. It’s the Rola 550-1 5” speaker that I’m after.
Thanks for this videos!!! i´m learning a lot!!! this is very special, it´s like having a teacher, for my it´s a lot useful because i´m learning electronics from a book and it´s hard (almost for my) to understand without having a parson that helps.Here in Uruguay almost no one know about "tube electronics" so it´s complicated. Regards Juan Motta
Hey there UC..thank you for the very informative video. About ummm 3 hours ago I picked up a 6161 from Norman's Vintage Guitars in LA. I am quite the Gretsch geek & am attracted to all things Gretsch. I knew when I saw it that it appeared very well taken care of and we worked out a good deal I think...anyway Your vid was highly informative and the only thing missing is the little small numbered plate you point out. Interestingly the 6161 has all the "black paint" still on the control panel & you mentioned the output transformer being riveted to the speaker...yup mine is. I really do want to play this but not kill it either. I will see what she can handle and mic it from there. Anyway thank u for all the great info!
Congratulations on a great acquisition, Allan. It sounds like it's a really nice one. You are wise to pamper the speakers, particularly if they are the oval Rola's, as they are really difficult to get re-coned and virtually impossible to replace. I think it's one of the finest sounding vintage amps in existence, and the tremolo is spectacular. Thanks for your nice message, and may you have many years of happiness with your new amp :))
@@UncleDoug Oh, that's not the greatest news. I've got a 1956 Gretsch Western Cowboy, that my stepfather refurbished for me in about 1978 or so, that I'd really like to restore, but I will have to have a speaker reconed.
@@Chuck-Bob What a wonderful amp to own, BA. I know of no place that sells re-coning supplies for oval speakers, but a site called vintage47amps.com/V47-Speakers/ has new ones for sale. Good luck.
Gretsch wasn't thinking with the Standby-Off-On for sure. When I changed my Blues Jr. power toggle (amongst a bunch of other stuff, thanks Bill Machrone!) it went from Off-On to Off-Standby-On as well.
The comment concerning radio stations is correct in my experience. Back in the day, very powerful AM stations and unshelded guitar amps, especially Silvertones were a bad mix.
I have a Country Gent and a Pro Jet. They do have the same knobs as the amp. Even the strap buttons look a lot like the knobs, except they don't have the G logo.
Oh yeah, the sweet "cathode wiggler" tremolo - I love it too and those small bottles are truly great. This amp is almost identical to Supro 6424 which I built a clone of with some additional features. I love how the headroom of all preamp tubes is limited by very high plate resistance - these amps were built for dirty tone! But one thing looks suspicious to me on the Gretsch schematic - the 300pF cap network with 1M resistor to ground after the mixer. High pass filter with 530Hz cutoff frequency? Looks like a major mistake in the schematic to me. Supro has a 500pF to ground cap in the same position to shunt some of the high end to ground and no grid leak resistor.
I agree with your observation, Tom. Since both Gretsch and Supro were designed and built by Valco, you would think the circuits would not differ in this way.
@@UncleDoug Were the service sheets exclusive to authorised technicians with any schematics sent out being deliberately incorrect - not enough to damage but enough not to give optimal tone - to avoid others copying their design (or to show claim changes that they didn't borrow any other registered design - though given the public designs in the electronics press I cannot see why they would have bothered - didnt every electronics mag publish a list of corrections two issues later on a lot of their circuits as the proof readers or typesetters missed something.
Oh wow! I haven't seen this amp since I was taking guitar lessons around 1965. My teacher sold it to me for something like $50. I really appreciated this as I have not been able to find anything about this amp - but I didn't have the model number. Have to be honest - I was always jealous of my friends having fender reverbs and ampegs that seemed more popular if you were an aspiring rocker. Great videos here and am learning a lot. Please keep them coming!
Thanks so much, Curtis. Your guitar teacher did you a big favor.....the Gretsch 6161 is now quite popular and, in great shape, worth in the $1000+ range. It may have lacked the reverb in many Fender amps, but it has truly wonderful tone and tremolo.
I use Electro-Harmonix 6973s, for two years and they work fine.Just don't increase too much the volume because they get hotter than original's.I kept the old one's for the future. So you can use it for replacement tube.
STILL LOVE YOUR STUFF DOUG ... GREAT WORK SR. ))) ... THANKS FOR THE GREAT VIDEOS ... I JUMP BACK AND FORTH BETWEEN YOU AND THE GUITOLOGIST ... ))) ... PRICELESS INFORMATION ... ))) ... OH ALMOST FORGOT RUSTY ... SAY HELLO FOR ME ... )))
This amp is "Ral Donner"cool. I'd be willing to bet the reason this amp has those 6973 tubes is that it was engineered by the same people that designed the Seeburg juke box electronics. Valco and Seeburg were just a short bus ride away and talent going from one place to the other and back was not uncommon in those days.
+oldjohn1951 An excellent observation, John. I used to restore jukeboxes, including some 1950's and 60's Seeburgs, and recall the 6973 tubes. I also remember good old Ral. He was an Elvis impersonator long before they became common.
I recapped and replaced the plate resistors in one just like it last year... that was in better condition... the touring musician had a really sweet road case for his... that terrible 3 way on-off-standby switch was done for the sake of face-plate real-estate. You almost wish they would have placed the fuse somewhere else and used that location for a standby switch. Accessing the caps and resistors is like doing surgery or untangling 14 strings of Christmas lights. I used hemostats to lift old parts out and new ones in. Everything is layer on layer. Could you imagine working on that line at the factory? The shield is there to deal with a "stray capacitance" issue. The old Supro (64)24 looks very close to the Gretsch 6161 and used the 6973's; their latest remake of the (16)24 uses the el84, an amp that I have played and like. Electro Harmonics is making the 6973's for under $20 now and people are reporting that they sound good, but you need to check the bias and use a different cathode resistor. Some have reported that the bias is far enough off that they've "red plated" their new tubes?? Shame on them for not checking the bias and the values of all the surrounding resistors and voltages. I ordered a set of the EH tubes and I'm going to audition them for grins. Wasn't the 7189 a bottle in this same class? I wish that we could have the build data on the transformers; especially the output. A lot of the magic was in the wind... let me rephrase that... the magic was the entire package...
Yes, indeed. Vintage 47 Amps are, in my opinion, the most stylish and beautifully made vintage-style amps currently available.....and at very reasonable prices. In fact, I am going to post a link to their site on my Facebook page, Uncle Doug's Vintage Amps. Thanks for reminding me about these gems, Mark :)
I posted their site address on my FB page and it has received over 50 likes and lots of comments.....all positive. Vintage 47 is a truly great organization.
Uncle I have a Univox 1246 amp head with the same stupid power switch with the same configuration. Could you swap the wiring around to make the on/off standby switch to be in the right order in the way it should have been wired up? Thanks for your input.
Thanks, Andy. When knobs are missing, I make reasonable replicas that serve until genuine knobs can be found. In this case, I was eventually able to buy an original Gretsch knob on Ebay.
I have a National Model 70 with the same knobs, so I know exactly the type you are seeking. I will keep an eye out for an extra one and let you know if one turns up.
Enjoyed your video. I have a 6163 which is very similar. There are Gretsch knobs available for this model from Parts is Parts- complete with the G piercing arrow. The site is run by John Sprung, co-author of the Fender Amp book. Just google Parts is Parts and click on the link for Gretsch parts.
A very interesting amp! Is there an available substitute for the power tubes? What about making a new speaker board and changing the speakers to agree with the schematic? You're right about the tremolo, sounds good. Thanks, U.D.!
You could probably rewire the sockets to accept some other tubes, Howard, if 6973's ever became impossible to get. Changing the physical structure of the amp (like changing the power tubes) would reduce its collector value quite a bit.
Hello Uncle Doug I really like your videos! Thanks so much for posting these! I have a question regarding the 6973 tubes. Can they be easily swapped into an EL84 application? Thanks again for these great videos!
+Richard Ruth Thanks, Richard. The pin connections are different. I'm not sure about the circuit requirements. You could try some Google searches for info, like this site: lists.netlojix.com/pipermail/jukebox-list/2012-November/061845.html Good luck :)
Richard Ruth, a 6CZ5 is virtually identical electronically to the 6973 with a slightly different pinout. A much better match than an EL84 would be, but you will have to check the wiring of the output tube sockets against the tube manual pinout for the 6CZ5. In most Magnatone amps only an additional jumper wire is needed to go from 6973 to 6CZ5, but Valco might have repurposed a previously "unnecessary" tube socket pin as a tie point for other components or B+ lines. Be cautious and thorough!
I wonder if those textured ceilings didn't come into vogue when these amps were in many households. Any time you dust those ceilings, or even look at them funny, they shed. Maybe some trace solvents or chemical reaction caused the paint flecks to bond with the Tolex?
It probably is ceiling paint, Randolph. The part that puzzles me is why anyone would paint a ceiling with uncovered amps in the room. I know they weren't all that valuable 30 or 40 years ago, but common sense would dictate that you cover the furniture, floor, amps, etc. before you begin slopping on the white latex paint.
BTW, I have a similar Gretsch amp -- same Tolex, a Kelvinator handle, "normal" rectangular grill, and 2 twelves. Given to me by a close friend who used it for years, he discovered one day that the wires between the preamp at the top and the power amp at the bottom, had been yanked out & were missing, much to his bewildered disappointment. He kept it for a few years and gave it to me out of the blue, when I was starting to get competent at restorations. That was all over twenty years ago. I have it in storage, but I'll go get it this week, and get back to you. I never did anything to repair it yet. Isn't it great that we can finally obtain all kinds of amp parts so easily?
Greetings, Randolph. What a nice gift....and how sad that someone damaged the wiring. Best of luck with your repairs. I think you'll be very happy with it, once you get it back into working condition.
Doug, my 6161 has a noisy Channel 1, so I just use the second channel connected to the tremolo. I often have to tap Channel 1’s volume knob to quiet it. Is there an easy way to disconnect channel 1 without effecting channel 2? Thank you!
Doug! Can I get a copy of the schematics for your Supro 1614 from the other video? I also have this amp and haven't been able to find them online. Thanks
If the 5" speaker is 8 ohms, the 22uF/33R crossover operates at about 164Hz, rather low I would have thought, the E below middle C (4th string 2nd fret). Interesting amplifier. Paraphase phase splitter.
Robert Casey I think it already has, Robert. Electro-harmonix has begun to produce them: www.tubedepot.com/products/electro-harmonix-6973-eh-power-vacuum-tube Which is good, since stocks of the old, original tubes have dwindled.
lol that standby switch is utter buffoonery...lol like they didnt understand how the device they were building functioned and how to treat them...that made my day
I took a video of the amplifier working.If you have the time hear how it sounds and hear also the hum in zero signal.If you want make a comment about it.All advices are valuable.
It was probably replaced at some time very early in the amp's "lifetime", David. Just a guess, but at least the speaker is absolutely identical to what the amp came with.
Hey unc! Why does the gretch 6161 sound soooo much differt than the supro 6424? Its the same exact circuit! Is it just bcuz of the demos i see? Or is there more difference? Obviously the speakers. Help!
It's hard for me to say, since I don't have them side-by-side, Dorian, but a significant difference in speaker size and shape would definitely make a big difference in tone. Also, if you heard them on separate YT channels, the difference in recording methods would have a big effect.
Now this is interesting....,a tweeter for hifi.the thing you played this amp overdriven on 10, really distorted I wonder if it would harm the tweeter..I would be afraid of turning this one up..I have a tan Gibson Skylark 6V6 single ended (volume only,no tone ) and it sounds great on 10 ,wonderful clear horn like distortion ,I love hitting A power chords The clean sound is so warm and rich too but volume must be kept low..
I almost finished the amplifier.One channel works.The annoying is the hum from transformer.Maybe I will make a second sheiling underneath so I can put the transformer seperately.My first tube amplifier is two levels stracture.In the first floor is the transformer module and in the second is the main circuit.So if main trans is far from circuit you have an almost 0% hum.It makes good sound although.When this is finished I will go on video.
Sometimes you can tighten the screws on a transformer and stop it from vibrating. Be careful not to get them too tight. Best of luck with your project. Let us know when the video is posted :)
Greetings, Dwight, and congratulations. You're the first person to recognize the song....or at least to comment on it. It was one of my all-time favorites way back in 1958, by Jody Reynolds, as I recall. It's good to know there are viewers out there with good taste in music.....and good memories :)))
You said that your transformer was humming. A transformer that hums audibly is probably vibrating and will vibrate even when attached to wood. While it is on and humming, press your finger against it and see if the hum changes tone. If you meant that there is a hum from the speaker which is caused by the transformer, then that is a different problem altogether.
I would think that all sorts of output tube substitutions are possible, as long as the circuit is modified to provide sufficient current, correct voltages, and proper bias.
Robert Israel Compiared to nos 6973 they are a bit lame. Still great . I use 6cz5 in my 6973 amps. Nos 10bucks a pop for good old rca black plates. To use them just put a jumper wire from pin 8 to pin 1 on the power tubes.
@@dorianblunote455 , does this one- wire tube substitution mod apply to Valco amps as it does to Magnatone amps? Or did Valco use the unneeded socket pins as tie points for other parts and voltages.?
I couldn't believe how poorly it was designed. The maximum stress on any amp is the moment it is turned on and turned off, so they create a stand-by switch (to reduce stress to the tubes) that requires a quick shut-off and turn-back-on every time you turn the amp from stand-by to "on", thereby at least doubling the stress to the amplifier tubes and components. It makes no sense to me.
I understand, BC, and I truly appreciate the utility of a good stand-by switch, but this particular switch is very poorly designed, IMHO. Requiring that you pass through "off" when switching from "stand-by" to "on" creates more problems than it remedies. Also, the original filter caps in this amp (still intact) were all rated at 450V. As a result, I do not use "stand-by" in this amp.
Send me your e-mail address in a YT message and I'll send you a high-res digital image of the schematic. You may have to write the e-mail address in some way that YT will not recognize it as such. Either that, or explain exactly what you need to know from the schematic (be specific) and I will provide it.
Your sense of humor just slays me ... "Okay now ... let's get out all of our amplifiers before we start painting ... " Those old alnicos were not all that substantial, so they likely blew pretty quickly. I think the tens were a later model change. The first chord you play each time, sounds incredibly like the guitar in "All My Only Dreams" from the movie, "That Thing You Do." ua-cam.com/video/GZK0TGmx5HQ/v-deo.html
I wonder why they didn't just make "off" the up position, "stand-by" middle, and "on" on the bottom 🤔 or something along those lines. Really cool amp nonetheless
Uncle Doug, Would you mind sending a picture or link of the schematic? I'm interested in the entire circuit especially the tremolo. Also, does the speaker move positive and negative even when there's no input? Thanks Scotty. Scott@petascalecomputing.com
Scott, whenever you need a schematic, simply do a Google search. For a Valco 6161 amp, I got the following: www.schematicsunlimited.com/v/valco/valco-6161-amplifier-schematic This schematic looks OK except for the speakers, which are generally two 6" x 11" Rola's and a 5" Rola tweeter protected by a crossover network. Re the speaker cones, they are completely motionless unless a signal is being sent to them by the output transformer. Once they receive a signal, the cones move inward and outward based on the frequency and amplitude of the signal.
CRANK IT! It's 22 Watts. I have 6973 push pull pair of tubes in an amp I built from a stray 1961 THOMAS TL1 organ amp chassis. I NEVER DESTROY ORGANS FOR PARTS BTW.. EVERY ORGAN MANUFACTURE UP TO 1968 MADE QUALITY INSTRUMENTS, IN QUALITY CONSOLES. THERE WILL NEVER AGAIN BE ANOTHER ANALOG ORGAN MADE, BUT GUITAR AMPS ARE MADE BY THE THOUSANDS!
Thanks for your input, Paul. When dealing with precious vintage speakers I tend to be rather conservative with the volume. This isn't a Line-6 amp at the Guitar Center.
This Vid of Chuck Berry in Belgium in 1965 is Interesting, The Rhythm Guitarist appears to be using this amp. ua-cam.com/video/lhoyMlX5avU/v-deo.html . I cannot quite see - unless I missed, is it a Gretsch guitar he is using ? Additionally Chuck is playing a fairly thin body Gibson, through a Gibson amp of an external style that I dont think you have feature before. Also for the guitars, I note you have altered some Amp circuits more to better (as in they work) Fender style of component networks, but to me was there any attempt to make their amps work or sound best with their guitar circuit and wiring - as in does the Gibson sound optimised through the Gibson amp , I know that a telecaster circuit sounds just right with the fenders (of any age - generally i think you will agree the fender circuit grew over time to add the reverb and tremolo, but strip them out and you a back to the basic input- pre-amp and amp stages !! .
Thanks for the link, HP. It's not a Gretsch.....no fingernail fret markers.....it looks more like a Gibson ES to me. The amp, however, is identical. I believe most Gibson amps, with their shrill treble, are best with humbuckers.....to "un-muddy" the tone, while Fender amps are best with single coils.
On the specks of white paint: I have personally stood on top of a Fender Twin in order to paint a ceiling...mystery solved. Chalk another one up for laziness and stupidity!
+Mike Roberti An excellent question, Mike. I think that when these dates were put on components, they were never intended for interpretation by the customer. They were probably intended purely for the manufacturer to determine which parts were the oldest (and thus the ones that needed to be used first), what lots they came from (in case there were any bad lots), and to ensure that the components recently purchased were actually all fresh and equivalent. For reasons that elude me, manufacturers seem to prefer codes to actual statements of date or source. It's exceedingly rare to find a clearly stated date of manufacture on ANY parts.....automobile, electronics, etc.
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Apologies for the out-of-tune guitar in the opening sequence. I got lazy :(
Out of tune is for country music, Uncle Doug. ;>)
sounded cool
Do You Want to Know a Secret? It sounded good.
Kinda expect it now.
@@steveennever9905 No thumbs up for you, Steve ;)
Hi Uncle Doug! I'm a contractor and clandestine vintage amp paint speckler. I probably put that paint on that amp. Whenever I paint I make sure there is a vintage amp in the room. It's usually specified in the contract. If a home owner doesn't want his vintage amp speckled with paint, I sneak up stairs and drag it out (when the owner is away at the bank getting my payment) and clandestinely speckled it with paint. I love your videos thank you for all the knowledge.
At last, we now know who is responsible for all those pesky white specks, Rick. Thanks for the confession ;) You're welcome......
thats a really great looking amp, the wrap around grill cloth, is an out of the box design, very contemporary.
Thanks, Ben. I really appreciate your kind words, and the fact that you subscribed to my channel. Welcome aboard !! Hopefully you will find many more videos to enjoy.
It is indeed a wonderful amp.....one of my all-time favorites. Thanks for your input and subscription, Roland, I really appreciate it.
Thanks, Henry. I think we were fortunate to have lived during the "heyday" of tube amps and (now) classic guitars. Those were good times !!!
I owned one just like that back in the 90s and loved the trem above any other I ever had in an amp. Swappy goodness. My main amp back then was a 1966 Gretsch 6166 Fury combo in mint shape. Wish I still had that amp.
Thanks for sharing, RB.
Great informative video Doug II I have had my 6161 for approx. 35 years buying it at a swap meet for $40.00. It is in perfect original condition with the 6973's intact, orig. black paint on panel, mint grille cloth and tolex (NO paint spots). The serial # on the metal tag is T-38721 which I believe dates it to 1960 (?). I am missing the orig. tremolo foot pedal though and will have to look far and wide for one I am sure. In any case, keep up the great videos....MUCH appreciated !
Uncle Doug, I would like to Thank you for this site and the knowledge I have gained from it.... Very useful tips indeed.... The Video was also most helpful and welcomed... I recently purchased the same amplifier, and in the process of cleaning it up... I like toys that look as new as I can make them , ha ha... If you find the time, please keep the information and videos coming, there are many of us that don't have the knowledge or experience that other have it is a Great gesture on your part to share such good information.... Thank You...
You're quite welcome, Carl. Congratulations on a great new acquisition. The 6161 is a wonderful amp......I hope it serves you well for many years to come.
Thanks for the kind words, VA. In doing research on this amp, I hunted down several other examples, and all the unaltered ones had the tweeter and crossover, exactly like mine. Also, the speaker baffle has two large oval holes and one 4" round hole to match this speaker arrangement....all original. There is so much variation in Valco amps that the schematics, if you can find them, are rarely completely accurate.
Were valco building to a price they quoted and being a little cost saving in what they supplied , as long as no complaints they would get away with it ?
Thanks for your helpful comment and for subscribing to my channel. You'll be glad to know that since the video was posted, I have obtained a really nice, original knob which is now installed on the amp.
But now you need to make four more plain knobs for your next home made amp, I wonder if a gretch style but with less expensive push-pull would fit your collection ? If you dont want to invest in an engraving machine i guess a local trophy shop could inscribe something appropriate if you dont want plain.
Hey Uncle Doug & Rusty, Very nice rendition of 'Listen, do you want to know a secret', early Beatles Rule! Love the video's of cool old amps. Take care, be good, C.
+Cass Virgillo Thanks, Cass. It's strictly by ear....I've never looked up the proper chords for the tune.....but I'm glad you like it, and I'm glad you like the videos. Rusty and I wish you the best :)
I have this amp!
I agree with your conjecture that the 6x11s are not original. The frames on mine are different. It's in storage so I can't check the serial numbers or take pics, sadly.
I had it gone over by a tech a few years ago. Both of the 6x11s were torn, and it took forever for me to find a place to recone them.
You mentioned 6973s were common in juke boxes. My tech noted the same thing. I thought, "Hey, Valco built juke boxes, too. Maybe call juke box people." I had gotten used to hearing, "6x11s, never heard of them. Are you sure they aren't 6x9s?"
I called a place in Michigan. "Do you have cones for a 6x11 speaker?" "Yup." Long pause. "Uh, I said 6x11." "Yeah, how many you need?" "6x11s?" "Why you asking me? You want them or not?" Hilarious. I think he cussed me out a bit as well.
One interesting thing I found out about the 6161: the output transformer handles anything from 2-16 ohms. I had my tech wire a speaker out that cuts out the internal speakers when plugged in. If I want to play loud, I plug this baby into a 4x12 cabinet and crank it up.
*EH has been making 6973s in China, so they've come down in price, even some NOS from other brands.
Thanks for sharing all this interesting and helpful information with us, Erik.
Thanks, WW. I have bought transformers from them.....in fact, I even have an account with them (if memory serves) so I'll check into the availability of a new Gretsch knob.
This circuit really sounds great. I built one from scratch and had to change out every single large component for other ones trying to get the tone as close as possible. Even tried 6x9’s and a tweeter. Went with two 10”s (one ceramic and one Alnico) in the end. Yup, TWO different baffles,lol! Had to try two different power AND output transformers and 3 different set of output tubes(settled on new EH 6973’s) and multiple different preamp tubes. Even installed a voltage regulator after the rectifier to get the exact voltages since I couldn’t find a perfect replacement transformer. The Mercury output is fantastic tho. That was the thing that really got the tone 90% there. Anyways, it’s finally as close as I’m going to get it unless I find a Classic Tone power transformer that’s made for these types of Valcos. Don’t think that’ll happen anytime soon! Very happy with it tho! The trem is even better with an intensity pot. Quite easy to install. I don’t know why Valco didn’t use one. Thanx for showing us the amp,UD!
You're welcome, William. I'm glad your clone finally met your expectations.
When I was a kid I had a Valco made Airline amp with two tens,it also had reverb and tremolo. I would love to have it today. I enjoyed this video.
You're welcome, WW, and thanks for the tip.
6973 amps always sound so cool. They seem to usually have the raunchy ratty characteristic that 6V6 amps are appreciated for with a bit more clarity.
Good sound.
all the fascinating things about that amp the thing that fascinates me the most is that paper envelope with the fuse in it.
That little envelope was standard issue in many Valco amps, FR.
Great video - REALLY interesting and well done. Thanks for taking the time to make this and to share it.
Suddenly I understand your tremolo obsession. This amp is beautiful. Almost fresh from the factory. Great sound, great looks. Valco should have taken the world by storm. And that trem is as slippery as... (add your own simile. Russian pole dancer, cat in axle grease, whatever). Cheers. 10/10.
Thanks so much for articulating the reasons for my obsession with good tremolo, Bill, and for Valco amps :) They did sell tons of amps under all sorts of names and achieved a level of popularity that rivaled many of the more familiar brands.....for good reason.
I'm a believer. They really knew their stuff. All of my amps are Fender. They have the best cleans that you can get in England, but Valco did it even better as far as I can tell. Keep 'em coming. (By the way, I keep noticing mild trem in recordings where I never noticed it before). Old dogs can notice old tricks, it seems.
@@billdyke9745 That's great to hear, Bill. Valco amps are generally a wonderful bargain, unless they happen to be a Supro that Jimmy Page once gazed upon back in the 60's.......and tremolo is ubiquitous.
7:26 - I notice the range of date-codes in a given amp is no more than around 6 months.
Were components 'made to order' back then? I could see how big-ticket components like transformers would be, but caps and pots?
I believe the components were ordered in large lots and used until the supply ran low, then another lot was reordered. This would result in some overlap of dating, since older parts may lay at the bottom of the parts bin for a long while, with new parts being piled atop them. Transformers are probably a more reliable date source, since they were never put in bins.
love it i going to copy this cabinet and make a amp so sexy
Hey, that would be great. It really is such a distinctive knob. I'd love to find one. The closest I've been able to fabricate is from a chrome light dimmer knob from a wall switch with a slice of an old bicycle tube wrapped around edge. But it lacks the indentations that give the original that bottle cap look.
Chris, I believe the crossover network would protect the tweeter. Playing at 10 for any length of time would probably take its toll on the two large oval Rola speakers. On these vintage amps with original speakers, I never push them very hard. Correct NOS or good used replacement speakers are virtually impossible to find and I would hate to be the person who destroyed something that had survived so long.
Just a comment on the Standby Switch: that thing was created at a time where high-voltage caps were really expensive, so manufacturers would cut on costs by using caps which's voltage pretty much matched the B+ (250v caps for a 250v B+, for example).
Because of that, you couldn't turn it on with cold tubes (high risk of damaging the filter caps), so the Standby Switch was introduced to pre-heat the tubes so the B+ would match.
In reality, with properly selected caps, you could just turn it on.
Excellent! I've been looking for the distinctive oversized volume knob with rubber outer edge for an early 1960s National Studio 10 for quite a while now, so I know how hard it can be to track down these vintage parts.
Thanks, BT. I'm not familiar with the Bogner Mephisto.....but will check it out.
Love the videos, might want to invest in a guitar tuner, though!
Thanks, Kurt. I have a good guitar tuner and use it prior to each video recording session. It's possible that the limited capabilities of my camera microphone might degrade the tone a bit.
Uncle Doug It's not the tone that's off. The guitar is noticably out of tune.
Check the intonation? Just a guess..Cool Amp..Love you videos!
its definitely the intonation. Open e chord sounds good.
Or a firm grip. Either way, these are the best amp videos. Uncle Doug you are the best. Thanks
So here's the short of it. about 18 years ago I bought a modd-ed amp at a guitar place in MD. There were two used amps next to each other. The first home brew amp that had writing on the front in a "Star Trek type font". Both amps were brought in from the same guy. The star trek amp had black silicone all over the board, and I though what a mess, how could I ever fix this if it broke? The other rep said there was a contract to agree to if if I was going to buy it so when I asked how much it was, the manager said he was going to buy it, but I could have the other for @200 cause it had problems. I brought it home and started working on it but I was used to low voltage circuits and shocked myself like "the worst I had ever shocked myself". So since I had one very young son and one on the way, I threw it away because I didn't want the boys to get hurt. -- Some things I remember was the tremolo would move the speaker 3/8 forward and 3/8 backward at 0.5 hz and less. It was crazy weird. When it was fast, it sounded exactly like crimson and clover, when it was slow, it sonded exactly like the Who's we don't get fooled again. Many years later I realized the other amp was an alexander dumble, and the one I threw away was probably a dumble prototype. I still have the 4 10" speakers. the rest is gone, but I remember the tremolo action and was just wondering if your 1962 circuit self oscillated the same way. Currently I just ordered a ODS board set from Nik @Ceriatone in Malaysia, and I wanted to recreate that old tremolo in the new build.
thx scotty
Scott, I have built several tremolo units, both electrical and electromechanical (there are videos posted for both), but I can't recall one that would move the speaker cone like you describe. Tremolo is a rhythmic fluctuation in volume, so the cone's excursion would vary at the same rate as the tremolo speed, but I'm not accustomed to seeing a cone move that much.....unless (maybe) the volume was set extremely high.
Re the Dumble prototype, it's a real shame that you didn't keep it. Whoever was digging in the Dumpster that day really hit a home run......if they knew what they'd found (which seems unlikely).
There has to be an opening or two for ventilation, but you will have better bass response if there is something solid behind the speakers for resonance. Take a look at any modern speaker cabinet.....every one is sealed tightly to enhance the bass response. The only reason there are openings in the rear of combo amps is for ventilation.
Nice to revisit this video, Uncle Doug. You slowly explained the white paint specks in this one. I was laughing. I was looking at a Model 6161 Amp on Reverb and wondering how many watts. Apparently nobody puts Jukebox-6973s in them anymore so they all call them "14 watt" amps (because they use the similar 6BQ5s?) - Electro Harmonix is making new ones now so I found a pair of RCAs for $40. Maybe I'll do this ... hmmm. Now on to your latest video.
Thanks, Jensen. Best of luck with your tube choice.
No more hum in the amplifier.Found an obvius mistake in my connections.I didn't ground the pentodes filament power supply line.Now it sounds like a dream.
ΜΠΑΜΠΗΣ ΡΟΥΧΛΑΣ That's great news!! Congratulations on a successful repair :)
Hi Doug, I came across this video you made quite some time ago. I am in search of a Rola 550-1 speaker the same speaker shown in your '62 6161. If you have any leads on where I might find one of these I would forever be in debt to you. Condition is not important as I would rebuild it if necessary. I am trying to finish a restoration of what I believe to be a Model 6166 '57 Gretsch Professional Hi-Fi Electromatic. Unfortunately one of the tweeters was replaced at some time and I would like to have matching 550-1s if possible. thanks again for all the great work you do.
You're quite welcome, Bill. You're in luck.....the folks at Vintage 47 have remade the Rola oval speakers and sell them at very reasonable prices. Check them out: www.vintage47amps.com/V47-Speakers/
Thanks for the link. But it’s not the oval speakers I’m looking for it’s the “tweeter”. My amp has 2 12” Jensen’s with two 5” Rolas. It’s the Rola 550-1 5” speaker that I’m after.
Thanks for this videos!!! i´m learning a lot!!! this is very special, it´s like having a teacher, for my it´s a lot useful because i´m learning electronics from a book and it´s hard (almost for my) to understand without having a parson that helps.Here in Uruguay almost no one know about "tube electronics" so it´s complicated.
Regards
Juan Motta
Hey there UC..thank you for the very informative video. About ummm 3 hours ago I picked up a 6161 from Norman's Vintage Guitars in LA. I am quite the Gretsch geek & am attracted to all things Gretsch. I knew when I saw it that it appeared very well taken care of and we worked out a good deal I think...anyway
Your vid was highly informative and the only thing missing is the little small numbered plate you point out. Interestingly the 6161 has all the "black paint" still on the control panel & you mentioned the output transformer being riveted to the speaker...yup mine is.
I really do want to play this but not kill it either. I will see what she can handle and mic it from there. Anyway thank u for all the great info!
Congratulations on a great acquisition, Allan. It sounds like it's a really nice one. You are wise to pamper the speakers, particularly if they are the oval Rola's, as they are really difficult to get re-coned and virtually impossible to replace. I think it's one of the finest sounding vintage amps in existence, and the tremolo is spectacular. Thanks for your nice message, and may you have many years of happiness with your new amp :))
@@UncleDoug Oh, that's not the greatest news. I've got a 1956 Gretsch Western Cowboy, that my stepfather refurbished for me in about 1978 or so, that I'd really like to restore, but I will have to have a speaker reconed.
@@Chuck-Bob What a wonderful amp to own, BA. I know of no place that sells re-coning supplies for oval speakers, but a site called vintage47amps.com/V47-Speakers/ has new ones for sale. Good luck.
Thanks for all the informations about this amp. Have one and love it:-), play it with an ES-330, sounds very warm but still clear.
Gretsch wasn't thinking with the Standby-Off-On for sure. When I changed my Blues Jr. power toggle (amongst a bunch of other stuff, thanks Bill Machrone!) it went from Off-On to Off-Standby-On as well.
+kcrmson Amen, KC. It must have caused a lot more harm than good, at least in my humble opinion :)
@@UncleDoug This switch begs to be "adjusted" as the engineers had their brains on standby. It's equipment preservation... inrush is the ennemy.
The comment concerning radio stations is correct in my experience. Back in the day, very powerful AM stations and unshelded guitar amps, especially Silvertones were a bad mix.
I grew up near the Mexican border, and extremely powerful Mexican AM stations were always an issue with radios and amps.
I loved the Dave Clark 5 intro.
Thanks, Jimmy, but I always thought it was by the Beatles :)
@@UncleDoug Psst, ... Do you want to know a secret, It was by the Beatles, you can feel glad all over now.
thanks uncle doug II you're the best!~
Aw, shucks, Jay. Thanks !!!
I have a Country Gent and a Pro Jet. They do have the same knobs as the amp. Even the strap buttons look a lot like the knobs, except they don't have the G logo.
Gretsch used their logo knobs on all sorts of guitars and amps, ND.
another masterpiece of a video. :)
Thanks, Steve :)
Oh yeah, the sweet "cathode wiggler" tremolo - I love it too and those small bottles are truly great. This amp is almost identical to Supro 6424 which I built a clone of with some additional features. I love how the headroom of all preamp tubes is limited by very high plate resistance - these amps were built for dirty tone! But one thing looks suspicious to me on the Gretsch schematic - the 300pF cap network with 1M resistor to ground after the mixer. High pass filter with 530Hz cutoff frequency? Looks like a major mistake in the schematic to me. Supro has a 500pF to ground cap in the same position to shunt some of the high end to ground and no grid leak resistor.
I agree with your observation, Tom. Since both Gretsch and Supro were designed and built by Valco, you would think the circuits would not differ in this way.
@@UncleDoug Were the service sheets exclusive to authorised technicians with any schematics sent out being deliberately incorrect - not enough to damage but enough not to give optimal tone - to avoid others copying their design (or to show claim changes that they didn't borrow any other registered design - though given the public designs in the electronics press I cannot see why they would have bothered - didnt every electronics mag publish a list of corrections two issues later on a lot of their circuits as the proof readers or typesetters missed something.
The Tolex on this amp is the same stuff Gretsch used on their guitar cases at the time
Oh wow! I haven't seen this amp since I was taking guitar lessons around 1965. My teacher sold it to me for something like $50. I really appreciated this as I have not been able to find anything about this amp - but I didn't have the model number. Have to be honest - I was always jealous of my friends having fender reverbs and ampegs that seemed more popular if you were an aspiring rocker. Great videos here and am learning a lot. Please keep them coming!
Thanks so much, Curtis. Your guitar teacher did you a big favor.....the Gretsch 6161 is now quite popular and, in great shape, worth in the $1000+ range. It may have lacked the reverb in many Fender amps, but it has truly wonderful tone and tremolo.
I use Electro-Harmonix 6973s, for two years and they work fine.Just don't increase too much the volume because they get hotter than original's.I kept the old one's for the future. So you can use it for replacement tube.
Thanks for the info, MP :)
STILL LOVE YOUR STUFF DOUG ... GREAT WORK SR. ))) ... THANKS FOR THE GREAT VIDEOS ... I JUMP BACK AND FORTH BETWEEN YOU AND THE GUITOLOGIST ... ))) ... PRICELESS INFORMATION ... ))) ... OH ALMOST FORGOT RUSTY ... SAY HELLO FOR ME ... )))
You're welcome, AT. Thanks for the very nice comments. Rusty says, "Hi".
This amp is "Ral Donner"cool. I'd be willing to bet the reason this amp has those 6973 tubes is that it was engineered by the same people that designed the Seeburg juke box electronics. Valco and Seeburg were just a short bus ride away and talent going from one place to the other and back was not uncommon in those days.
+oldjohn1951 An excellent observation, John. I used to restore jukeboxes, including some 1950's and 60's Seeburgs, and recall the 6973 tubes. I also remember good old Ral. He was an Elvis impersonator long before they became common.
Amazing vids Doug !
Thanks, GL :)
I recapped and replaced the plate resistors in one just like it last year... that was in better condition... the touring musician had a really sweet road case for his... that terrible 3 way on-off-standby switch was done for the sake of face-plate real-estate. You almost wish they would have placed the fuse somewhere else and used that location for a standby switch. Accessing the caps and resistors is like doing surgery or untangling 14 strings of Christmas lights. I used hemostats to lift old parts out and new ones in. Everything is layer on layer. Could you imagine working on that line at the factory? The shield is there to deal with a "stray capacitance" issue. The old Supro (64)24 looks very close to the Gretsch 6161 and used the 6973's; their latest remake of the (16)24 uses the el84, an amp that I have played and like. Electro Harmonics is making the 6973's for under $20 now and people are reporting that they sound good, but you need to check the bias and use a different cathode resistor. Some have reported that the bias is far enough off that they've "red plated" their new tubes?? Shame on them for not checking the bias and the values of all the surrounding resistors and voltages. I ordered a set of the EH tubes and I'm going to audition them for grins. Wasn't the 7189 a bottle in this same class? I wish that we could have the build data on the transformers; especially the output. A lot of the magic was in the wind... let me rephrase that... the magic was the entire package...
Thanks for the informative input, Mark :)
Have you seen these? Wow! Great craftsmanship... www.vintage47amps.com/1955-Twin-Speaker-Supreme/
Yes, indeed. Vintage 47 Amps are, in my opinion, the most stylish and beautifully made vintage-style amps currently available.....and at very reasonable prices. In fact, I am going to post a link to their site on my Facebook page, Uncle Doug's Vintage Amps. Thanks for reminding me about these gems, Mark :)
Share the love... lol
I posted their site address on my FB page and it has received over 50 likes and lots of comments.....all positive. Vintage 47 is a truly great organization.
Uncle I have a Univox 1246 amp head with the same stupid power switch with the same configuration. Could you swap the wiring around to make the on/off standby switch to be in the right order in the way it should have been wired up? Thanks for your input.
Yes, I think you could, Ron. You would have to look closely at how the switch is currently wired and then draw up a diagram with the proper wiring.
Really cool amp. thanks!
You're welcome, Jeff :)
My Silvertone 1472 has paint blobs too.
Doug,
You make your own knobs?!?!
You are awesome.
Andy W
Thanks, Andy. When knobs are missing, I make reasonable replicas that serve until genuine knobs can be found. In this case, I was eventually able to buy an original Gretsch knob on Ebay.
I have a National Model 70 with the same knobs, so I know exactly the type you are seeking. I will keep an eye out for an extra one and let you know if one turns up.
Enjoyed your video. I have a 6163 which is very similar. There are Gretsch knobs available for this model from Parts is Parts- complete with the G piercing arrow. The site is run by John Sprung, co-author of the Fender Amp book. Just google Parts is Parts and click on the link for Gretsch parts.
16:00 What's this kind or rifs called? I love it.
I believe it was my fanciful rendition of Hey, "Mr. Tambourine Man".
A very interesting amp! Is there an available substitute for the power tubes? What about making a new speaker board and changing the speakers to agree with the schematic? You're right about the tremolo, sounds good. Thanks, U.D.!
You could probably rewire the sockets to accept some other tubes, Howard, if 6973's ever became impossible to get. Changing the physical structure of the amp (like changing the power tubes) would reduce its collector value quite a bit.
Hello Uncle Doug I really like your videos! Thanks so much for posting these! I have a question regarding the 6973 tubes. Can they be easily swapped into an EL84 application? Thanks again for these great videos!
+Richard Ruth Thanks, Richard. The pin connections are different. I'm not sure about the circuit requirements. You could try some Google searches for info, like this site: lists.netlojix.com/pipermail/jukebox-list/2012-November/061845.html Good luck :)
Uncle Doug Thanks so much for the link! I think this will be very helpful...
You're welcome :)
Richard Ruth, a 6CZ5 is virtually identical electronically to the 6973 with a slightly different pinout. A much better match than an EL84 would be, but you will have to check the wiring of the output tube sockets against the tube manual pinout for the 6CZ5. In most Magnatone amps only an additional jumper wire is needed to go from 6973 to 6CZ5, but Valco might have repurposed a previously "unnecessary" tube socket pin as a tie point for other components or B+ lines. Be cautious and thorough!
@@goodun2974 6CZ5 have much lower plate voltage rating than 6973. Only use as subs if B+ is 250V or less.
I wonder if those textured ceilings didn't come into vogue when these amps were in many households. Any time you dust those ceilings, or even look at them funny, they shed. Maybe some trace solvents or chemical reaction caused the paint flecks to bond with the Tolex?
It probably is ceiling paint, Randolph. The part that puzzles me is why anyone would paint a ceiling with uncovered amps in the room. I know they weren't all that valuable 30 or 40 years ago, but common sense would dictate that you cover the furniture, floor, amps, etc. before you begin slopping on the white latex paint.
I was speculating that the flecks fell on the amp perhaps weeks or even years after it was painted, maybe?
BTW, I have a similar Gretsch amp -- same Tolex, a Kelvinator handle, "normal" rectangular grill, and 2 twelves. Given to me by a close friend who used it for years, he discovered one day that the wires between the preamp at the top and the power amp at the bottom, had been yanked out & were missing, much to his bewildered disappointment. He kept it for a few years and gave it to me out of the blue, when I was starting to get competent at restorations. That was all over twenty years ago. I have it in storage, but I'll go get it this week, and get back to you. I never did anything to repair it yet. Isn't it great that we can finally obtain all kinds of amp parts so easily?
Greetings, Randolph. What a nice gift....and how sad that someone damaged the wiring. Best of luck with your repairs. I think you'll be very happy with it, once you get it back into working condition.
Yeah, those knobs are identical to the ones on my 64 Gretsch Corvette with the 2 over 4 headstock
They are heavy, nicely made knobs.....about the best I have ever seen.
Doug, my 6161 has a noisy Channel 1, so I just use the second channel connected to the tremolo. I often have to tap Channel 1’s volume knob to quiet it. Is there an easy way to disconnect channel 1 without effecting channel 2? Thank you!
You're best bet would be to clean the Channel 1 volume pot, CB. It's not that hard and would quickly restore the channel to proper operation.
Doug! Can I get a copy of the schematics for your Supro 1614 from the other video? I also have this amp and haven't been able to find them online. Thanks
love the decco style
Yes, I think it's one of the better looking amps ever made.
Those rolas look like they were pulled from a stereo radiogram. Do you find any difference in sound on an oval compared to a round speaker ?
None at all. They sound great to me, HP.
If the 5" speaker is 8 ohms, the 22uF/33R crossover operates at about 164Hz, rather low I would have thought, the E below middle C (4th string 2nd fret). Interesting amplifier. Paraphase phase splitter.
+QuadMaestro Thanks for the input, QM....glad you liked the amp :)
Any idea what speaker ohm can be hooked up to this?
I have not checked the net impedance of the speaker network, Ryan. It's probably around 4 Ohms.
@@UncleDoug Did you cover how ohms worked in a crossover situation. Is it the main pair in parallel with both in series with the small one ?
I also have a mid 60's Gibson Falcon GA19RVT that needs the " couplet " capacitor removed from the tone stack !
Time to start up the old chain saw and get to work, TM ;)
AFTER STAND-BY JUST COUNT TO FIVE IN OFF POSITION BEFORE YOU FLIP ON. The amp will still come on quickly, AND YOU GET THE USE OF HAVING A STAND-BY.
Thanks for your helpful suggestion, Paul.
I wonder if the "new" Supro amps use of 6973s will bring these gritty bad boys back into production?
Robert Casey I think it already has, Robert. Electro-harmonix has begun to produce them: www.tubedepot.com/products/electro-harmonix-6973-eh-power-vacuum-tube Which is good, since stocks of the old, original tubes have dwindled.
I will try to make a 12ax7-6973 amplifier.I have pair of 6973 RCA.I made a test on them and they work.
This sounds like a good project. Best of luck :)
Thanks.I am making the box now from old wood pieces of furniture.My goal is to make a cheap but reliable and good old looking amplifier.
It's good that you are following through on your project. Please let us see it when it's done.
lol that standby switch is utter buffoonery...lol like they didnt understand how the device they were building functioned and how to treat them...that made my day
see one for 900, good alternative to the champ, that I was seeking~
They normally cost around $1200 or so, Jay, and are a really fine amp.....with nice tremolo.
I took a video of the amplifier working.If you have the time hear how it sounds and hear also the hum in zero signal.If you want make a comment about it.All advices are valuable.
ΜΠΑΜΠΗΣ ΡΟΥΧΛΑΣ I watched the video and left a message.
8:29 - By 'grafted in' do you mean that it was added or replaced ?
It was probably replaced at some time very early in the amp's "lifetime", David. Just a guess, but at least the speaker is absolutely identical to what the amp came with.
Apparently they now make reproduction 6973 output tubes. AES has them for $19 a piece
That's good to hear, Bill. Thanks !!
so you dont seem to be a fan of open back speaker sounds. most vintage amps have openings in the back?
Hey unc!
Why does the gretch 6161 sound soooo much differt than the supro 6424?
Its the same exact circuit!
Is it just bcuz of the demos i see? Or is there more difference? Obviously the speakers. Help!
It's hard for me to say, since I don't have them side-by-side, Dorian, but a significant difference in speaker size and shape would definitely make a big difference in tone. Also, if you heard them on separate YT channels, the difference in recording methods would have a big effect.
Now this is interesting....,a tweeter for hifi.the thing you played this amp overdriven on 10, really distorted I wonder if it would harm the tweeter..I would be afraid of turning this one up..I have a tan Gibson Skylark 6V6 single ended (volume only,no tone ) and it sounds great on 10 ,wonderful clear horn like distortion ,I love hitting A power chords The clean sound is so warm and rich too but volume must be kept low..
How many watts does it have?? Because I like the style
And might want a deluxe reverb if it's a clean sounding amp
Even though I'm not sure yet
A pair of 6973's, cathode biased, should produce about 17 or 18 Watts of output power, Andrew.
Uncle Doug does that make this a sweet sassy sounding amp?🙌💪 I'm just trying to be funny
Thanks!
See the the video that I have uploaded now and we will speak maybe tomorrow.Thank you for the advice.
ΜΠΑΜΠΗΣ ΡΟΥΧΛΑΣ I watched the video and left a comment. Thanks for the invitation.
I almost finished the amplifier.One channel works.The annoying is the hum from transformer.Maybe I will make a second sheiling underneath so I can put the transformer seperately.My first tube amplifier is two levels stracture.In the first floor is the transformer module and in the second is the main circuit.So if main trans is far from circuit you have an almost 0% hum.It makes good sound although.When this is finished I will go on video.
Sometimes you can tighten the screws on a transformer and stop it from vibrating. Be careful not to get them too tight. Best of luck with your project. Let us know when the video is posted :)
Ok I Will try that again and we will contact. Thank you.
You were playing the chords to "Endless Sleep." You must be as old as me.
Greetings, Dwight, and congratulations. You're the first person to recognize the song....or at least to comment on it. It was one of my all-time favorites way back in 1958, by Jody Reynolds, as I recall. It's good to know there are viewers out there with good taste in music.....and good memories :)))
I love Jody Reynolds, I have the 45 of this song as well as “thunder”with the b side being “tarantula”. Don’t have to be old to enjoy good music!
The chassi is all from wood, so transformer rests in wood. You say there is vibration through wood?
You said that your transformer was humming. A transformer that hums audibly is probably vibrating and will vibrate even when attached to wood. While it is on and humming, press your finger against it and see if the hum changes tone. If you meant that there is a hum from the speaker which is caused by the transformer, then that is a different problem altogether.
Uncle doug,
Can i use 6973 for ab763 style amp?
I would think that all sorts of output tube substitutions are possible, as long as the circuit is modified to provide sufficient current, correct voltages, and proper bias.
they just started making 6973 power tubes again
That's good news, Robert.
Uncle Doug Electro-Harmonix brought them back. they are 18.98 on tube depot.com where as NOS ones are 79
some of the new supro amps use them
Robert Israel
Compiared to nos 6973 they are a bit lame.
Still great .
I use 6cz5 in my 6973 amps. Nos 10bucks a pop for good old rca black plates.
To use them just put a jumper wire from pin 8 to pin 1 on the power tubes.
@@dorianblunote455 , does this one- wire tube substitution mod apply to Valco amps as it does to Magnatone amps? Or did Valco use the unneeded socket pins as tie points for other parts and voltages.?
hey I recognize that Beatles riff, not bad brother
Thanks, CN. All approval is appreciated :) :)
I couldn't believe how poorly it was designed. The maximum stress on any amp is the moment it is turned on and turned off, so they create a stand-by switch (to reduce stress to the tubes) that requires a quick shut-off and turn-back-on every time you turn the amp from stand-by to "on", thereby at least doubling the stress to the amplifier tubes and components. It makes no sense to me.
I understand, BC, and I truly appreciate the utility of a good stand-by switch, but this particular switch is very poorly designed, IMHO. Requiring that you pass through "off" when switching from "stand-by" to "on" creates more problems than it remedies. Also, the original filter caps in this amp (still intact) were all rated at 450V. As a result, I do not use "stand-by" in this amp.
Send me your e-mail address in a YT message and I'll send you a high-res digital image of the schematic. You may have to write the e-mail address in some way that YT will not recognize it as such. Either that, or explain exactly what you need to know from the schematic (be specific) and I will provide it.
Your sense of humor just slays me ... "Okay now ... let's get out all of our amplifiers before we start painting ... "
Those old alnicos were not all that substantial, so they likely blew pretty quickly. I think the tens were a later model change.
The first chord you play each time, sounds incredibly like the guitar in "All My Only Dreams" from the movie, "That Thing You Do."
ua-cam.com/video/GZK0TGmx5HQ/v-deo.html
Thanks so much, TT. It's a beautiful tune from an underrated movie. In fact, I need to watch it again :)
I wonder why they didn't just make "off" the up position, "stand-by" middle, and "on" on the bottom 🤔 or something along those lines. Really cool amp nonetheless
Agreed, Liam. As it is, the wiring makes no sense.
@@UncleDoug Is it actually wired like that, or is the lettering incorrect ?
Uncle Doug, Would you mind sending a picture or link of the schematic? I'm interested in the entire circuit especially the tremolo. Also, does the speaker move positive and negative even when there's no input? Thanks Scotty. Scott@petascalecomputing.com
Scott, whenever you need a schematic, simply do a Google search. For a Valco 6161 amp, I got the following: www.schematicsunlimited.com/v/valco/valco-6161-amplifier-schematic This schematic looks OK except for the speakers, which are generally two 6" x 11" Rola's and a 5" Rola tweeter protected by a crossover network.
Re the speaker cones, they are completely motionless unless a signal is being sent to them by the output transformer. Once they receive a signal, the cones move inward and outward based on the frequency and amplitude of the signal.
CRANK IT! It's 22 Watts. I have 6973 push pull pair of tubes in an amp I built from a stray 1961 THOMAS TL1 organ amp chassis. I NEVER DESTROY ORGANS FOR PARTS BTW.. EVERY ORGAN MANUFACTURE UP TO 1968 MADE QUALITY INSTRUMENTS, IN QUALITY CONSOLES. THERE WILL NEVER AGAIN BE ANOTHER ANALOG ORGAN MADE, BUT GUITAR AMPS ARE MADE BY THE THOUSANDS!
Thanks for your input, Paul. When dealing with precious vintage speakers I tend to be rather conservative with the volume. This isn't a Line-6 amp at the Guitar Center.
This Vid of Chuck Berry in Belgium in 1965 is Interesting, The Rhythm Guitarist appears to be using this amp. ua-cam.com/video/lhoyMlX5avU/v-deo.html . I cannot quite see - unless I missed, is it a Gretsch guitar he is using ? Additionally Chuck is playing a fairly thin body Gibson, through a Gibson amp of an external style that I dont think you have feature before. Also for the guitars, I note you have altered some Amp circuits more to better (as in they work) Fender style of component networks, but to me was there any attempt to make their amps work or sound best with their guitar circuit and wiring - as in does the Gibson sound optimised through the Gibson amp , I know that a telecaster circuit sounds just right with the fenders (of any age - generally i think you will agree the fender circuit grew over time to add the reverb and tremolo, but strip them out and you a back to the basic input- pre-amp and amp stages !! .
Thanks for the link, HP. It's not a Gretsch.....no fingernail fret markers.....it looks more like a Gibson ES to me. The amp, however, is identical. I believe most Gibson amps, with their shrill treble, are best with humbuckers.....to "un-muddy" the tone, while Fender amps are best with single coils.
On the specks of white paint: I have personally stood on top of a Fender Twin in order to paint a ceiling...mystery solved. Chalk another one up for laziness and stupidity!
+Sam Pajanna Good heavens, Sam.....please buy a ladder (and some drop cloths) and quit jeopardizing a nice amp :)
+Uncle Doug Haha, I did cover it up, but they do make real sturdy platforms for ceiling painting and I bet that's why those specks are there.
Just the idea of it makes my (white-speckled) hair stand on end :)
Just the idea of it makes my (white-speckled) hair stand on end :)
Why the secret codes on the date of production??? Why not just put the fucking DATE???
+Mike Roberti An excellent question, Mike. I think that when these dates were put on components, they were never intended for interpretation by the customer. They were probably intended purely for the manufacturer to determine which parts were the oldest (and thus the ones that needed to be used first), what lots they came from (in case there were any bad lots), and to ensure that the components recently purchased were actually all fresh and equivalent. For reasons that elude me, manufacturers seem to prefer codes to actual statements of date or source. It's exceedingly rare to find a clearly stated date of manufacture on ANY parts.....automobile, electronics, etc.
I'm the evil bastard thats been flicking white paint on amps since Jesus was a boy.
I know it's wrong but i can't help myself.
You, sir, are a menace to all vintage amps......but we just can't help but admire your work :)