Mycenaean Religion: Which Gods did the Mycenaean Greeks Worship?
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- Опубліковано 11 вер 2024
- Mycenaean Greeks, much like their successors, were very religious and held their gods in the highest of regards. In this video, we go through the Bronze Age origins of the famed ancient Greek Pantheon.
* This is the fixed version of the video. Thanks to the channel supporters for noticing the Potnia mistake!
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📜 Sources & Further Read:
Homer: Iliad
Wood, Michael (1985): In Search of the Trojan War
Chadwick, John (1976): The Mycenaean World
#mycenaeangreece #ancientgreece #achaeanhistory #bronzeage #greekmythology
It is amazing how we translated the language of such an ancient culture
it's greek? minoan language is still unknown afaik
@@eriksaari4430 And will probably remain unknown.
@@eriksaari4430 The language of the Linear B tablets is a proto Greek language. Linear B tablets were created by Mycenaeans.
@@eriksaari4430 Minoan were Pelasgians (Albanians)
@@ginaibisi777stop ridicule yourself with this fairy tales
0:52 Early Greek speakers are believed to have emerged in the area what is today Greece.
Me: you don't say?
🤣
Haha....In your imaginary world yeah they did
@@supermavro6072 🤡🦃🤡🦃🤡
@@SpartanLeonidas1821 χαχαχαχαχα
power of logic 😂
I think this video could've been longer, because there is so much to talk.
Let me add some information, tho I do not claim to be a authority in this subject, but I have read articles and books about this.
Indeed, Poseidon was the most revered deity because the mycenaeans were a seafaring civilization. The sea became their main road, the way they took to establish connections, colonies in other parts of the Middle East. Makes sense that Poseidon was the most worshipped deity in those days. He seems to have been the personification of the otherworldy sea.
Zeus was a distant deity. Greeks knew about him but he was not a god with who you could have a special relationship. This is evident in the Vedas where Dyaus Pita, the Sky Father of the Vedic religion, is scarcely mentioned. The Indo-European Dyeus Pater was a god which indo-europeans did not truly worshipped, they hold respect towards the Father of the Gods, and they knew he was the personification of heavens, and such tradition was carried to the Greeks, an IE folk. Zeus became highly important and the main god of the greeks because he acquired the thunderbolt after the Mycenaeans were exposed to canaanite religions where Baal was ruler of the gods, the thunderer and giver of rain. Thus Zeus, in the bronze age was, possibly just the God that personified the Heavens and Laws, but he was not the thunder god.
There is no Hades figure in Mycenaean religion. Hades was, most likely, just the Underworld and the ruler there was Persephone alone. This is a very IE trope: the Underworld is ruled by a woman and she is death itself.
I’m sure there will be future videos going into greater details on this topic
@@ecurewitz noice
Great insight Thane! I've tried to keep the video at about 10min range so I didn't want to go through too many details on one topic while leaving out the other. But I've enjoyed the read. I have a more detailed series on the Mycenaeans in mind, perhaps for 2023!
@@WanaxTV
Oh, my comment is also to show you that it is always a pleasure to watch your videos, and I always want more.
I'm waiting for more content, always.
Thanks. You are free to email me your ideas for future content and feedback anytime! Big video on the Etruscans is in the works!
07:35 Human sacrifices were, at the very best, shunned. This was mostly a "horror" element, and something that forebode the fall of mighty Agamemnon. That he had to sacrifice a human, and his daughter at that... It also shows how trapped he was in this war. He had mobilized a vast army, so many kings and heroes, and they were stranded before they even started.
This is true, human sacrifice was considered part of the old religion, part of the time when Cronos ruled.
It was forbidden by zeus and the new pantheon.
As is seen in the Deucalion flood story that came because of the actions of Lycaon, who insulted zeus by murdering a man at a party and then cooked and ate him.
Not only did Zeus turn him and the other party goes into wolves but he was so outraged he sent a flood.
@funkyfiss no dude that's absolutely not true
@funkyfiss you can't take a story from Greek myth and use it completely out of context and it was Tantalus that killed his son Pelops then served him up to the Gods who physically came to dine with him in order to test their omniscience
@funkyfiss anyways there is ample evidence both anthropologically and primary sources that show human sacrifice was absolutely a thing especially at Mount Lykaion to Zeus on a huge altar made of ash
The op needs to stop spreading misinformation too
Zeus likely evolved from the Proto-Indo-European god Dyeus Phter, "Sky Father". The Dyeus name evolved to become Zeus and Phter became the name Jupiter.
The -meter part from Demeter might have come from the Proto-Indo-European word for mother, mehter, but there's some discussion on that still.
💯👍
IVPITER (classical spelling, the j was added to latin by the church) still contains that "yeu" from the PIE dyeus as the latin "iu" (spelt as iv)
@@nyanarchy the Sangrist language has nothing to do with Greece.
the Indians until the 2nd century BC did not have an alphabet to write complex texts and it is absurd to talk about causal words
in the 2nd century BC they take from the Persians a type of Akkadian writing
if there is an influence on the Indians, it happened during the Hellenistic period of the 4th century BC. Seleucus dynasty
after the destruction of the Persian Empire by Alexander the Great
also in the period of the Roman and Byzantine empires with merchants who followed the silk route to India
the Greek words in Europe spread with the Minoan and Mycenaean seafarers up to the Black Sea and the northern European seas.
Archeology proves it.
They were followed later by the Greek colonization of the 11th century BC. throughout southern Europe
The Romans later spread with the Latin language and incorporated Greek
@@panagiotis7946 Nothing you just said was relevant to the topic. The earliest Indo-European languages were oral, not written. They diverged 6500-4500 years ago along with the names of the deities of their pantheon. These religions then replaced the Old European (pre-proto-european) ones and spread the spoken language with them.
@@nyanarchy where are the cities of the indo-europeans?
because if they had something higher in their culture it presupposes places of settlement
Awesome and informative video but just one thing I’d like to point out is that Apollo was like Aphrodite a foreign deity who was later adopted into the Hellenic Pantheon. His name has not been found within our current corpus of tablets.
The earliest references to Apollo actually come from the related but non-Greek Anatolian languages, he started off as the bringer of plagues as stated in both Anatolian sources and the Iliad. Paean, a separate god whose name was later used for both Apollo and his son of Asclepius, god of medicine, however is attested in Linear B.
Paean is the Greek god of healing who served as the physician to the gods. He makes a brief appearance in the Iliad as a healer. Apollo didn’t become a healer until much later after which he took Paean’s name as an epithet, before that he only made people sick. Asclepius who rose to prominence later on as the god of medicine also took on Paean’s name as an epithet. Despite Apollo and Asclepius later using Paean’s name as an epithet, they are in fact three separate deities with separate origins.
Also I wish you’d have mentioned Diwia aka Dione, the original wife of Zeus who’d already been sidelined by Hera during Mycenaean times. Zeus and Hera are even attested in Linear B on a tablet as a couple together with their forgotten son Drimios. In later times her worship was largely restricted to Dodona as Dione and in Pamphylia as Diwia. The names Dione and Diwia are both female forms of Zeus but in different dialects. Pamphylia in southern Anatolia was colonized by the Mycenaeans and became isolated from the rest of the Greek world after the Bronze Age Collapse.
Oh and this one’s a bit more mysterious but there’s also Posidaeia, Poseidon’s first wife who was cast aside for Amphitrite by the Archaic Period, however it’s possible she survived for a time in certain locales as well. I’m pretty sure I read about a form of her name surviving on Naxos and that she’d remained his wife there instead of Amphitrite. Not 100% on the validity of that though.
Anyway great video overall and I apologize if it sounds like I’m nitpicking as that’s not my intention. Keep up the good work!
Apollo has been found on the B lines
etymology in Greek from the word "apollimi" "apollyen" and "apollein", i.e. "kill"
with the bow and arrows he brings death with pestilences
with the name Phoebus is the god of the light of the sun
the only goddess not found as a name is Aphrodite
As a goddess of beauty Ariand was possible
In polytheistic religions the attributes of the gods exist in all peoples almost the same
what makes the difference in Greek mythology is the stories and the plot of the myths where great symbolism and a unique aesthetic were given
Ο Ζευς του Διός, όχι ο Δίας του Δία.
Greeks on 31 december 1000 BC: poseidon
Greeks on 1 January 999 BC: *AND THEN ALONG CAME ZEUS*
Honestly surprised Poseidon wasn't still king
He has his brothers' powers and his own over the sea so he'd be more powerful
@wana tv....would you like to make a video documentary about thracians or ilirians? they are only a few history documentaries about them and their origin....thank you..
Yes. I was actually thinking abut the Illyrians. Perhaps even a series!
Awesome. Thank yoi
Thank you for stepping by!
@@WanaxTV o problem. I do frequently
Thanks for another great video.
Subscribe, voted, and commented.
ΔΕΝ ΕΙΝΑΙ "WANAX"..... ΕΙΝΑΙ "ΑΝΑΞ".......
Paean is not proven to be Apollo so is Apollo truly in the Mycenaean text?
Actually it’s the other way around. Paean is now known to NOT be Apollo. The two have separate origins but became conflated when Apollo acquired healing abilities instead of just bringing plagues as he originally did.
Different forms of Apollo’s name are attested in different Anatolian tongues before his assimilation into the Greek Pantheon. The Anatolian texts also portray him as the plague bringer which is also how he’s portrayed in the Iliad. Meanwhile Paean the god of healing appears in the Iliad as the physician to the gods.
@@duskfallthreesixfive7918oh cool
so that's how Gods changed by reinterpretation of their attributes and merging unifying diverging cults
like Apollo sun bringing heat and malign hot fever
then he also fixed it then he fixed other conditions becoming new God while previous attribute as god of sun/sky moved to other sky related deity
Hermes got seriously nerfed
he combined Artemis Hermes Haron
a middleman for everything really
If one wants to talk any religion must understand that the religion is an order of certain rites which are connected with seasonality, human life cycle and economy (hunter-gearheres, agriculture, pastoralism, nomadic posteralism, fising, maritime life) and technology (e.g. textiles production, metal processing).
E.g. greece religion is an amalgomation of many similar rites (Zeus, Perseus, Heraclis, Theseus are doing essencially the same thing: killing a "dragon" e.g. Typhon, Hydra, Medusa and retriving with some stuff) of many pilicies which are themseld amalgamation of early anatolian farmers and later migrants from pontic step which were system similar to that which reflected in vedas or edas or in Rome grounding myth.
Oh boy!!! ;D
Absolutely fascinating. Thanks for this episode🧜♂️🦉🏺
Thank you. Glad you enjoyed it!
Yess
Oh the Greeks are still so cool!
Wish you went more indepth with the Indo-European origin of Mykenian deities and religion.
Speak in long song like sentences that sounds like a song
Manasa sounds like, one of the lost tribes of Israel :D one of Joseph's sons.. WEIRD. I am glad I saw this! :D God is AMAZING. Anyway, God bless everyone out there! Try prayin! The Word is true. It's amazing; I spent 30 years as an agnostic seeking knowledge.. Seek truth :D God is.. the coolest! Bless
🙂
Yeah the Mycenaean religion was a more chronic and primitive version where several deities present later was absent, and where some deity later disappeared and his name was taken by other deities as a pseudonym, like enuvarijo with ares or pajan with Apollo.(Apollo was probably was an Asian or balkanic deity, in his place there was pajan or pajawon I don't remember. And in Delphi there was probably a female chronic oracle, maybe the death oracle of Dodona preserved something of these original prehistoric cults. The religion change with the centuries (just look at us our Christianity isn't the same of even 100 years ago when all was in Latin, at least for us Catholics, and where the church had a more traditional and reactionary line, like the church of 1870 when the Italian troops occupied Rome suppressing de facto the papal state, had few to do with the church of the XII century. Religion change as the social conditions change. Same the mycenaeans and Minoan religion: centered around a palace elite, without real temples but with cult rooms and cult open spaces (look Minoan peak sanctuaries) with an elite to pratice it that was strictly linked with the power in the palace. The religion of the dark ages was less centralized and when the writing come back in Greece in 9th or 8th century bc and the archaic Greek civilization born, the religion was changed for ever. As the Greek religion of the 9th century bc isn't the Hellenistic one. Not exactly the same. Too centuries to separate their states of mind and social conditions.
you can't compare to modern times as now changes because of paper extensive trade and fast communication happens really fast
in old times cult was very conservative
only cities because of its nature and populous grain society spawned new ideas more often
the first to rule different folks was Assyria and in peaceful way Cyrus Persia 😂
before that there was no monoteist religion
winers imposed own with own paternal lines
you didn't change god of clan as it was betrayal of own blood
PIYAMARADU!!!
Κορυφαίοι
Hera seems to have had the nickname Alexandra making it the oldest attested use of the name greek name Alexander 😅
Homer Hellenized the Mycenaean. Even Homer was probably not Greek. Hellenization was obviously a project.
Just to inform you that there are numerous Mycenaean inscriptions and they’re all in an archaic Greek language. Probably you’re playing your role in a de-hellenization project of Greek history.
The mycenaeans are like one of the ancestors of the greeks, they werent hellenized in that sense, they actually were one of the creators of the greek world, and the greek language comes from mycenaean. Not a very good comment.
Ακριβώς. Απόδειξη αυτού που λες είναι η αποκρυπτογράφηση της Γραμμικής Β. @@Dinosaur315
Mycenaeans were not "Greex"! Please don't spread such a blatant misinformation and ignorance! - The Latin term "Graecus" was introduced by Romans as late as 2 centuries after the death of Alexander the Great.
"Greek" is the term we conventionally use today for the Hellenes. When we say "Greeks" in the video, we mean "Hellenes".
Hellenic peoples used the term Hellenes since the ancient times to describe themselves.
Of course a slav who wants to descend from an ancient greek tribe so bad would say such a thing 😂