The film’s departures still gave the feel of the times. They gave the feel of what was happening, even though if a particular event wasn’t historically accurate. The departures kept, continued and carried on the film. So it didn’t matter if something happened exactly or not in the movie because it carried the story and it accurately gave the feeling and emotion of what was going on in those times-individually and en mass. This is why you got carried along so much and that’s why the author said the movie was poetically correct-because it told the story using some truth and some fiction-as connective tissue and as metaphor and/or symbol. And this is important: The fiction enhanced the story in an honest way. It didn’t divert it into another direction that didn’t exist. The feelings lived and existed as they were. For example, it didn’t matter if they yell Judas in Britain and not at Forest Hills. Having it in the movie necessarily captured the response to going electric. To make it happen in Britain in the movie would’ve weakened the movie adding scenes that were not needed to enhance or advance the movie. Symbolically. The chance to electric forested the feeling of betrayal in Dylan fans. “Judas” captured that perfectly. Exactly where it was shouted is immaterial. This kept the movie flowing without an unneeded sidetrack of Britain. As I said, but this helped keep the movie’s flow and it didn’t really matter if it was said in Forest Hills or England. The film captured the times, motivations and intentions of the characters, events and everything successfully intermingled with the times. And that’s what is important. That’s what made the movie a great movie. The movie was not a documentary and it gave more feelings and emotional truth than a documentary could-without losing the documentary truth, so to speak. In summary, the movie sometimes was not historically accurate but it never went in a direction of events that strayed from the truth of what happened and what was felt in those times.
Stories about the past can very often reveal the truth of it far better than the actual history can. it’s why art is such an important aspect of human understanding. Dylan knew this from early on. And it’s why he was such an insightful story teller.
Dylan deserved the Nobel Prize for, if nothing else, spawning an industry of Dylanologists to debate (with non-Dylanologists and literary elites) whether he deserved it or not. Frankly I don’t care much for awards, prizes and medals, and I suspect Bob doesn’t either. I don’t care about categories much. I care about art being allowed to be art and I’m glad Dylan was duly compensated for his art along his journey so he could make that the sole focus of his life’s work. And what a life work it has been, never to be repeated or replicated by anyone. When I was a kid many years ago, I bought Dylan’s “Writings & Drawings” and so I read a lot of his songs before I got around to hearing them. I had been a big fan of the Beats, especially Ginsberg, and I loved French symbolist poetry by Rimbaud and Baudelaire, along with the usual English writers like Blake, Joyce. When I read some of those early Dylan songs, they were as good, if not better than anything I’d read by the aforementioned. Then when I heard them as music, my opinion amplified. God bless my fellow Canadian Ms Atwood, who I adore, but she didn’t know what the f&ck she was talking about when she uttered that angry little missive in 2016. Or, she and her ego place way more value in prizes than Dylan does.
@GoneButNotGone This is beautiful stuff. Thank you so much for sharing this deeply felt take on Dylan, the Nobel, Atwood, etc. It is wonderful to meet such a kindred spirit here.
@ I rarely venture out into UA-cam comments sections anymore, but Dylan seems to drag me into discussions. He has that rare effect on me. There were times when I thought he was just a drug-addled 1960’s enigma baffling us with surreal BS, but I always circle back and concede to his genius as a writer. He is part songwriter savant, part normal guy, part carnival worker, part priest, part rabbi and part magician. A true original worthy of every accolade he receives. I enjoyed your rumination on the issues.
@GoneButNotGone isn't the grander portion, though, a fantasy? Narcissus with a projectionist manager? Let's say Robert was just some couple's child, who was governed to value relationship over conquest, who actually wished to, aimed for, acted out the promotion of a growing community of creative souls, other living artists who'd collaborate with him in, let's say, a peace-on-earth imperative, hunh? Couldn't there possibly be 75 or an 100 more Nobel warriors amongst us? Dozens of recognized genial geniuses, scraping by on 2 or 3 hundred thousand $ a year, committed to touring their personal neighborhoods, NOT neverendingly? Compassionately surrendering their limited means to the grander endeavor of, may we say, our common folks focus? I like to sing, & craft songs. I also like to perish into the oblivion of every day, surrendering to our sun's dependability. And, to accept and embrace youth's eternity nursing on my own demise. An happy competition, failure's own true success. Thanks. ❤🎉
@ You raise some good points. I suppose had he done it differently for different reasons, he wouldn’t be Bob Dylan but more like folk guild type person, or he may have left music for another profession. Bob has said a few times that his path was a higher-power ordained destiny, largely out of his hands. The Nobel prize issue did open a can of worms. If Dylan, why not Leonard Cohen, or Gordon Lightfoot or the like, all great poets in their own way. It’s why I don’t value awards much. They tend to be political and arbitrary and granted by culture elites who claim to know something we commoners don’t. Don’t get me started on the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame. 😆
@GoneButNotGone You remind me of my favorite Leonard Cohen quote, which was that "Giving Bob Dylan the Nobel Prize is like pinning a medal on Mount Everest for being the tallest mountain." 🤭
My understanding has always been that Dylan doesn’t think we have a right to anything more than the music. His personal life is his to share or not on his own terms. That’s enough for me.
Some previous titles of 'work' on Dylan. No Direction Home. I'm Not There. Masked and Anonymous. Join the dots. Enjoy the music if you like the music. Enjoy the cinematography. Otherwise don't waste your time trying to 'criticise what you won't ever understand'. Go to the music. "All I really want to do...." and decades later "don't want to judge nobody, don't want to be judged..." and decades later "I contain multitudes." Pressed to join the cast of the western movie, Pat Garret and Billy the Kid' his character name was Alias. Don't overthink this. Directors Scorsese, Pennebaker, Peckinpah didn't. Nobel committee. Academy Award - even the Oscar song title was 'Things Have Changed'. Relax everyone. If you enjoy the music, listen to lots more. Otherwise move on. Long Live Bob Dylan
The name Judas Priest comes from Bob Dylan's song "The Ballad of Frankie Lee and Judas Priest" on the album John Wesley Harding! What's all the fuss? Sure, he was electric at Newport, but not Heavy Metal!
I appreciate your knowledge and insights Bob Dylan is an extraordinary person his songs are otherworldly to me I enjoyed the film wish it would have gone thru 66 happy new year to you and yours
Bob Dylan deserved the prize imho.... his lyrics are vivid, suprising, and most often magnificent... he insipred more humans in the history of our planet to investigate literature and to make their own attempts at creating literature than any other writer.... (ok maybe will shakespeare ) in history....most of his lyrics could stand on their own without music.... and that is a large body of work.... his work wil be studied for many centuries to come
For most of Dylan's career people have been debating his worth and above all which box can he be placed. Ironically Dylan has now been placed in the most elite box of all, the Nobel Prize for literature. The ''Thin Men'' are now in a real quandary and the literary establishment are lost for words. All Dylan has ever done is to let his words, music and voice speak as the sound track of his life and where truth is both naked and clothed. It is up to each to decide which is which and I suspect Dylan couldn't care less how and what is decided.
Dylan openly says he’s ok with lying, so I don’t really put a lot of stock in what Dylan is as a person. I grew up listening to his songs. Respected his music, but like a lot of talented people, it doesn’t make him a brilliant example of a good life model.
Exactly, never trust what an artist says, even about themselves or their work. Dylan especially is mischievous and enjoys sending people down the wrong path.
I just saw this movie. Very good. I went to see him in concert about 10 years ago. My question is, why was "This Land is My Land" in court at the time? I read somewhere it was about if it's in public domain. I loved Jhony Cash in the movie. I loved hearing Peter, Paul, and Mery. Wish we could have seen them be partraid.
The Nobel Committee created a category with only Dylan in it. That isn't a measure of his greatness; it is a measure of the Nobel Committee's bowing to prolonged public pressure from his fans, and to its own skepticism.
@ethanschneider2711 I too have adored that song for years. I think Empire Burlesque is a terribly underrated record as a whole. "Dark Eyes" is covered on this wonderful tribute album focusing entirely on Dylan's 80s work; check it out here: www.amazon.com/Tribute-Bob-Dylan-80s/dp/B00GZ0NS26/
New sub. here, thanks for your entertaining insight into a man I've followed for 60 plus years . Imagine being 15 and hearing Like a Rolling Stone for the first time when the record played right before that was I'm Henry the Eighth I Am by Herman and the Hermits , everything changed for ever thank God.
Grateful for the review and comments. I, am also, a Dylan fan. Totally enjoyed "A Complete Unknown" film. Question: How did Timothee Chalamet feel about wearing a prosthetic nose ?
@LucyLennon909 Funny you mention it because today I came across a story by someone who blanches at, of all things, the appearance of Chalamet's fingernails in the film. You can find that story here: www.yahoo.com/entertainment/most-anticipated-performance-cay-yikes-181832198.html
To drag out the film to get to the Judas moment was unnecessary. The sentiment was no doubt present at Newport and getting the Judas moment in was valuable.
It's a fluke created by Covid years that Timothy could work for years on the voice and guitar playing. My point is it's now three generations since the events depicted in the movie, and it explains the fuss and the times.
@@jnagarya519 I appreciate your concern abkut Dylan's influence over the script and I discuss that in my prior videos on this topic. What I have not mentioned is that apparently it was Dylan and his team who optioned the book for film. Dylan's manager Jeff Rosen called Wald telling him they wanted to option it. I guess from there perhaps it was inevitable that Dylan would have a say in the screenplay's direction?
@@thecuriouslistener9217 Dylan has always been a micromanaging control-freak when it comes to his privacy and reputation. Imagine him whining in "Idiot Wind" about "images and distorted facts" when the "images and distorted facts" originated with HIM. See "No Direction Home" -- I believe the interview is with Izzy, who reads from the record the myriad stories Dylan told about himself that people believed at the time, but which didn't actually add up. And then he insults Suze Rotolo by making of her a fictional character -- distancing her from him. The review of the film in the "Boston Globe" received the usual attacks on the reviewer from Dylan fans. Why? Because he had to research outside the film in order to understand several central issues -- one being why the "going electric" was a big deal because -- though the film built up to that -- it wasn't explained in the film. What the reviewer was doing was asking: Why did I have to research these key, central plot points outside the film to learn why they were significant?
@jnagarya519 That final question you pose is a great one. It seems the director of the film, James Mangold, would retort that his job is not that of a biographer. He says this often in interviews discussing this film.
@@thecuriouslistener9217 The reviewer sees those problems as flaws -- holes -- in the film, even if not biographical. Dylan fans would likely have those facts in their heads, so wouldn't notice that they were filling the holes. It's a perceptive reviewer, who may or may not have known those details, who saw those holes. P.S. Just watched "Masked & Anonymous". Huh? Is that weird and bleak meaninglessness Dylan's "grand vision"?
@donsteinberger1785 💯 I was thinking about It's Alright, Ma, today in this context. Desolation Row gets this praise from the literary establishment, but man, for my money - and Dylan himself has expressed his astonishment at having written It's Alright, Ma - I think it at least stands up to Desolation if it doesn't outright exceed it.
@@thecuriouslistener9217 I heard him say he could never write that today and he didn't know how he did it then -- he just did -- that's youthful genius pushing the envelope.
@jgwire Yes he did say that. A fascinating quote. I've never forgotten that. I believe it was during his 60 Minutes interview during which he also intimated that he had made a deal with the devil. 🤭.
I never hated your insights. What was a turn off was how you went on about your achievements and your accomplishments just to make your point. When I seek out a film or music critics opinion on something I never hear about them boasting on their credentials. I trust that they’re accomplished enough in the subject that I shouldn’t have to doubt their expertise. You should be able to do the same.
The old saying, once you brag about how much you donate to charity, it stops being charitable I think applies to not only this Dylan flick but all biopic and biopicish films. But especially to Dylan films. He's such a myth and the mythology about Dylan becomes one dimensional once it's put up on the big screen. That's why for me, the best Dylan film was Martin Scorsese's The Rolling Thunder film where Dylan himself just added to the myth on screen, not explaining it or justifying it to a mass audience.
totally agree - the Rolling thunder film is a hoot -- I did not know it was partly fictional until I had seen it three times -- but I gotta admit, I was scratching my head when Sharon Stone told her bit-- and that guy who was supposed to have filmed the thing was such an asshole -- he seemed fake - but with Scorsese and Dylan - I thought it was a straight narrative -- silly me -- now I think its funny -- Sharon stone was wiping fake tears -- or laughing tears before he camera roll as they made up that stupid story.......Great movie though -- full of mythical symbolism and weirdness. Thanks JMHO
May we agree, mei oui, "Dylan fans" ought to accept they're fans of a construct, not an actual person. Fans of a show-biz imperative, fans of a socialist desire to self-invent a commensurate reality. Then, there would be a stable platform, even a foundation, for sensible discussion. Want to? Else, we're all merely metaphors in a forward to a fiction. Who'd compose such a thing? Who'd ask us to be stick figures in such an Ai convention? A social editor, I'd hazard to suggest. Prompting a conflation of personal desire and Godless imperialism. A fan base for individual manifest destiny. Any electric books? Anybody plugging in MOBY DICK for an extra sizzle? Yeah, there's laptop reading, etc. but not, necessarily, novels, or poems w/amplifiers. Dwell on this, por favor. Where the whole Nobel Prize contra comes to rest. Thanks.
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
The film’s departures still gave the feel of the times. They gave the feel of what was happening, even though if a particular event wasn’t historically accurate.
The departures kept, continued and carried on the film. So it didn’t matter if something happened exactly or not in the movie because it carried the story and it accurately gave the feeling and emotion of what was going on in those times-individually and en mass.
This is why you got carried along so much and that’s why the author said the movie was poetically correct-because it told the story using some truth and some fiction-as connective tissue and as metaphor and/or symbol.
And this is important:
The fiction enhanced the story in an honest way. It didn’t divert it into another direction that didn’t exist. The feelings lived and existed as they were.
For example, it didn’t matter if they yell Judas in Britain and not at Forest Hills. Having it in the movie necessarily captured the response to going electric.
To make it happen in Britain in the movie would’ve weakened the movie adding scenes that were not needed to enhance or advance the movie.
Symbolically. The chance to electric forested the feeling of betrayal in Dylan fans. “Judas” captured that perfectly. Exactly where it was shouted is immaterial.
This kept the movie flowing without an unneeded sidetrack of Britain.
As I said, but this helped keep the movie’s flow and it didn’t really matter if it was said in Forest Hills or England.
The film captured the times, motivations and intentions of the characters, events and everything successfully intermingled with the times. And that’s what is important. That’s what made the movie a great movie.
The movie was not a documentary and it gave more feelings and emotional truth than a documentary could-without losing the documentary truth, so to speak.
In summary, the movie sometimes was not historically accurate but it never went in a direction of events that strayed from the truth of what happened and what was felt in those times.
Hollywood filmmakers are storytellers and not historians unfortunately. With that in mind, I love the movie!
I recommend the new book, "You Don't Need a Weatherman: Bob Dylan for Beginners" to anyone interested in learning more about Dylan's entire career.
The elephant in the room is how they dance around the band "THE CRAMPS"
@@SKMikeMurphySJ I adore The Cramps. Just for the record. 😉
Stories about the past can very often reveal the truth of it far better than the actual history can. it’s why art is such an important aspect of human understanding. Dylan knew this from early on. And it’s why he was such an insightful story teller.
Dylan "mysteriousness": he simply played, "Always keep them guessing".
Dylan deserved the Nobel Prize for, if nothing else, spawning an industry of Dylanologists to debate (with non-Dylanologists and literary elites) whether he deserved it or not. Frankly I don’t care much for awards, prizes and medals, and I suspect Bob doesn’t either. I don’t care about categories much. I care about art being allowed to be art and I’m glad Dylan was duly compensated for his art along his journey so he could make that the sole focus of his life’s work. And what a life work it has been, never to be repeated or replicated by anyone. When I was a kid many years ago, I bought Dylan’s “Writings & Drawings” and so I read a lot of his songs before I got around to hearing them. I had been a big fan of the Beats, especially Ginsberg, and I loved French symbolist poetry by Rimbaud and Baudelaire, along with the usual English writers like Blake, Joyce. When I read some of those early Dylan songs, they were as good, if not better than anything I’d read by the aforementioned. Then when I heard them as music, my opinion amplified. God bless my fellow Canadian Ms Atwood, who I adore, but she didn’t know what the f&ck she was talking about when she uttered that angry little missive in 2016. Or, she and her ego place way more value in prizes than Dylan does.
@GoneButNotGone This is beautiful stuff. Thank you so much for sharing this deeply felt take on Dylan, the Nobel, Atwood, etc. It is wonderful to meet such a kindred spirit here.
@
I rarely venture out into UA-cam comments sections anymore, but Dylan seems to drag me into discussions. He has that rare effect on me. There were times when I thought he was just a drug-addled 1960’s enigma baffling us with surreal BS, but I always circle back and concede to his genius as a writer. He is part songwriter savant, part normal guy, part carnival worker, part priest, part rabbi and part magician. A true original worthy of every accolade he receives. I enjoyed your rumination on the issues.
@GoneButNotGone isn't the grander portion, though, a fantasy? Narcissus with a projectionist manager? Let's say Robert was just some couple's child, who was governed to value relationship over conquest, who actually wished to, aimed for, acted out the promotion of a growing community of creative souls, other living artists who'd collaborate with him in, let's say, a peace-on-earth imperative, hunh? Couldn't there possibly be 75 or an 100 more Nobel warriors amongst us? Dozens of recognized genial geniuses, scraping by on 2 or 3 hundred thousand $ a year, committed to touring their personal neighborhoods, NOT neverendingly? Compassionately surrendering their limited means to the grander endeavor of, may we say, our common folks focus? I like to sing, & craft songs. I also like to perish into the oblivion of every day, surrendering to our sun's dependability. And, to accept and embrace youth's eternity nursing on my own demise. An happy competition, failure's own true success. Thanks. ❤🎉
@
You raise some good points. I suppose had he done it differently for different reasons, he wouldn’t be Bob Dylan but more like folk guild type person, or he may have left music for another profession. Bob has said a few times that his path was a higher-power ordained destiny, largely out of his hands. The Nobel prize issue did open a can of worms. If Dylan, why not Leonard Cohen, or Gordon Lightfoot or the like, all great poets in their own way. It’s why I don’t value awards much. They tend to be political and arbitrary and granted by culture elites who claim to know something we commoners don’t. Don’t get me started on the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame. 😆
@GoneButNotGone You remind me of my favorite Leonard Cohen quote, which was that "Giving Bob Dylan the Nobel Prize is like pinning a medal on Mount Everest for being the tallest mountain." 🤭
My understanding has always been that Dylan doesn’t think we have a right to anything more than the music. His personal life is his to share or not on his own terms. That’s enough for me.
Some previous titles of 'work' on Dylan. No Direction Home. I'm Not There. Masked and Anonymous. Join the dots. Enjoy the music if you like the music. Enjoy the cinematography. Otherwise don't waste your time trying to 'criticise what you won't ever understand'. Go to the music. "All I really want to do...." and decades later "don't want to judge nobody, don't want to be judged..." and decades later "I contain multitudes." Pressed to join the cast of the western movie, Pat Garret and Billy the Kid' his character name was Alias. Don't overthink this. Directors Scorsese, Pennebaker, Peckinpah didn't. Nobel committee. Academy Award - even the Oscar song title was 'Things Have Changed'. Relax everyone. If you enjoy the music, listen to lots more. Otherwise move on. Long Live Bob Dylan
@@100Equipoise Very insightful take. Thanks for sharing this.
The name Judas Priest comes from Bob Dylan's song "The Ballad of Frankie Lee and Judas Priest" on the album John Wesley Harding! What's all the fuss? Sure, he was electric at Newport, but not Heavy Metal!
I appreciate your knowledge and insights Bob Dylan is an extraordinary person his songs are otherworldly to me I enjoyed the film wish it would have gone thru 66 happy new year to you and yours
Bob Dylan deserved the prize imho.... his lyrics are vivid, suprising, and most often magnificent... he insipred more humans in the history of our planet to investigate literature and to make their own attempts at creating literature than any other writer.... (ok maybe will shakespeare ) in history....most of his lyrics could stand on their own without music.... and that is a large body of work.... his work wil be studied for many centuries to come
For most of Dylan's career people have been debating his worth and above all which box can he be placed. Ironically Dylan has now been placed in the most elite box of all, the Nobel Prize for literature. The ''Thin Men'' are now in a real quandary and the literary establishment are lost for words. All Dylan has ever done is to let his words, music and voice speak as the sound track of his life and where truth is both naked and clothed. It is up to each to decide which is which and I suspect Dylan couldn't care less how and what is decided.
Dylan openly says he’s ok with lying, so I don’t really put a lot of stock in what Dylan is as a person. I grew up listening to his songs. Respected his music, but like a lot of talented people, it doesn’t make him a brilliant example of a good life model.
Exactly, never trust what an artist says, even about themselves or their work. Dylan especially is mischievous and enjoys sending people down the wrong path.
I just saw this movie. Very good. I went to see him in concert about 10 years ago. My question is, why was "This Land is My Land" in court at the time? I read somewhere it was about if it's in public domain. I loved Jhony Cash in the movie. I loved hearing Peter, Paul, and Mery. Wish we could have seen them be partraid.
The Nobel Committee created a category with only Dylan in it. That isn't a measure of his greatness; it is a measure of the Nobel Committee's bowing to prolonged public pressure from his fans, and to its own skepticism.
Dark eyes is so underrated, one of my favorite Dylan songs!
@ethanschneider2711 I too have adored that song for years. I think Empire Burlesque is a terribly underrated record as a whole. "Dark Eyes" is covered on this wonderful tribute album focusing entirely on Dylan's 80s work; check it out here: www.amazon.com/Tribute-Bob-Dylan-80s/dp/B00GZ0NS26/
You’re a trip, man…….wonderful perspective
Please make the video on masterpiece from the 80s! Love 89s Bob!!!
Yes - makers of biopics would distort the facts of the life of any subject for dramatic purposes.
New sub. here, thanks for your entertaining insight into a man I've followed for 60 plus years . Imagine being 15 and hearing Like a Rolling Stone for the first time when the record played right before that was I'm Henry the Eighth I Am by Herman and the Hermits , everything changed for ever thank God.
@@glennbolder2722 I adore Herman's Hermits! Peter Noone forever! Thanks so much for being here. Have an awesome weekend. 🤘
Grateful for the review and comments. I, am also, a Dylan fan. Totally enjoyed "A Complete Unknown" film.
Question: How did Timothee Chalamet feel about wearing a prosthetic nose ?
@LucyLennon909 Funny you mention it because today I came across a story by someone who blanches at, of all things, the appearance of Chalamet's fingernails in the film. You can find that story here: www.yahoo.com/entertainment/most-anticipated-performance-cay-yikes-181832198.html
@thecuriouslistener9217 thanks for the link🔗 most guitar players I know of, that don't use a guitar pick grow fingernails, to use instead.
@LucyLennon909 Right, which is among many things that seem to be beyond the writer of that story. But it is an entertaining read nonetheless. 😄
@@thecuriouslistener9217 💯% agree
What's next? A Keith Richards documentary?
THANK YOU!
Utterly bewildering!!
but I understand it.
Dylan was always a poet set to music. If the snobs don't like the truth oh well
To drag out the film to get to the Judas moment was unnecessary. The sentiment was no doubt present at Newport and getting the Judas moment in was valuable.
The greatest of the Beatnik poets loved Dylan that’s good enough for me
It's a fluke created by Covid years that Timothy could work for years on the voice and guitar playing.
My point is it's now three generations since the events depicted in the movie, and it explains the fuss and the times.
A well done, boring biopic
Don't Look Back, I'm Not There
Dylan was the first to distort the facts about himself. And that he was allowed to intrude on the script is transgressive arrogance.
@@jnagarya519 I appreciate your concern abkut Dylan's influence over the script and I discuss that in my prior videos on this topic. What I have not mentioned is that apparently it was Dylan and his team who optioned the book for film. Dylan's manager Jeff Rosen called Wald telling him they wanted to option it. I guess from there perhaps it was inevitable that Dylan would have a say in the screenplay's direction?
@@thecuriouslistener9217 Dylan has always been a micromanaging control-freak when it comes to his privacy and reputation.
Imagine him whining in "Idiot Wind" about "images and distorted facts" when the "images and distorted facts" originated with HIM. See "No Direction Home" -- I believe the interview is with Izzy, who reads from the record the myriad stories Dylan told about himself that people believed at the time, but which didn't actually add up.
And then he insults Suze Rotolo by making of her a fictional character -- distancing her from him.
The review of the film in the "Boston Globe" received the usual attacks on the reviewer from Dylan fans. Why? Because he had to research outside the film in order to understand several central issues -- one being why the "going electric" was a big deal because -- though the film built up to that -- it wasn't explained in the film.
What the reviewer was doing was asking: Why did I have to research these key, central plot points outside the film to learn why they were significant?
@jnagarya519 That final question you pose is a great one. It seems the director of the film, James Mangold, would retort that his job is not that of a biographer. He says this often in interviews discussing this film.
@@thecuriouslistener9217 The reviewer sees those problems as flaws -- holes -- in the film, even if not biographical. Dylan fans would likely have those facts in their heads, so wouldn't notice that they were filling the holes. It's a perceptive reviewer, who may or may not have known those details, who saw those holes.
P.S. Just watched "Masked & Anonymous". Huh? Is that weird and bleak meaninglessness Dylan's "grand vision"?
@jnagarya519 Masked was indeed a weird flick 😆
TCL, do you need a lavalier microphone?
Listen to "It's Alright Ma", "Like a Rolling Stone", or a couple dozen others, then tell me he's not a great poet.
@donsteinberger1785 💯 I was thinking about It's Alright, Ma, today in this context. Desolation Row gets this praise from the literary establishment, but man, for my money - and Dylan himself has expressed his astonishment at having written It's Alright, Ma - I think it at least stands up to Desolation if it doesn't outright exceed it.
@@thecuriouslistener9217 I heard him say he could never write that today and he didn't know how he did it then -- he just did -- that's youthful genius pushing the envelope.
@jgwire Yes he did say that. A fascinating quote. I've never forgotten that. I believe it was during his 60 Minutes interview during which he also intimated that he had made a deal with the devil. 🤭.
I never hated your insights. What was a turn off was how you went on about your achievements and your accomplishments just to make your point. When I seek out a film or music critics opinion on something I never hear about them boasting on their credentials. I trust that they’re accomplished enough in the subject that I shouldn’t have to doubt their expertise. You should be able to do the same.
The old saying, once you brag about how much you donate to charity, it stops being charitable I think applies to not only this Dylan flick but all biopic and biopicish films. But especially to Dylan films. He's such a myth and the mythology about Dylan becomes one dimensional once it's put up on the big screen. That's why for me, the best Dylan film was Martin Scorsese's The Rolling Thunder film where Dylan himself just added to the myth on screen, not explaining it or justifying it to a mass audience.
totally agree - the Rolling thunder film is a hoot -- I did not know it was partly fictional until I had seen it three times -- but I gotta admit, I was scratching my head when Sharon Stone told her bit-- and that guy who was supposed to have filmed the thing was such an asshole -- he seemed fake - but with Scorsese and Dylan - I thought it was a straight narrative -- silly me -- now I think its funny -- Sharon stone was wiping fake tears -- or laughing tears before he camera roll as they made up that stupid story.......Great movie though -- full of mythical symbolism and weirdness. Thanks JMHO
We are not saints
@@michaelcosgrove6908 This is quite true. 👍
May we agree, mei oui, "Dylan fans" ought to accept they're fans of a construct, not an actual person. Fans of a show-biz imperative, fans of a socialist desire to self-invent a commensurate reality. Then, there would be a stable platform, even a foundation, for sensible discussion. Want to? Else, we're all merely metaphors in a forward to a fiction. Who'd compose such a thing? Who'd ask us to be stick figures in such an Ai convention? A social editor, I'd hazard to suggest. Prompting a conflation of personal desire and Godless imperialism. A fan base for individual manifest destiny. Any electric books? Anybody plugging in MOBY DICK for an extra sizzle? Yeah, there's laptop reading, etc. but not, necessarily, novels, or poems w/amplifiers. Dwell on this, por favor. Where the whole Nobel Prize contra comes to rest. Thanks.