My friends from college and I made a date to see Wicked when it came to LA. Prior to that my mother bought me the book knowing I was going to see the musical. I had always been a fan of The Wizard of Oz, as well as a bullied outsider growing up, and in reading that book I identified very much with Elphaba. On serveral occasions while reading I broke down in tears. Big, ugly heaving sobs. It affected me so much I cry just thinking about it. When I saw the musical I was *pissed.* It was my best friend, who had also read the book, who soothed my anger by noting that she felt we had seen the same story from three different perspectives. The original is Dorothy's perspective, as a child who doesn't understand the political machinations she's being subjected to. The book is Elphaba's perspective, as the outsider who sees these machinations. The musical is Glinda's perspective, and all she sees is her friend.
Yes, this! It also goes to one of the themes within the story itself about who tells the story, and in how the medium is part of the character of each of those stories. I only just realized this recently, and it blew my mind!
The backstory of Baum's mother in law is fascinating considering in the book Fiyero, Elphaba's lover, is meant to be ambiguously indigenous, and later on she goes on to live with his wife and sisters in law in the mountains.
Fiyero was described as looking like he was from southern India, and his culture was reminiscent of the Scottish Highlands, with a clan-based social structure ruled by chieftains in mountaintop castles. There was nothing "indigenous" about them.
I read the book back in my teens and Elphaba's struggle and failure to make real change in the world is so relatable now in my 20s. She wants to help the Animals, overthrow the Wizard but didn't want to kill innocents, and finally she just gives up and lives in the mountains with her flying monkeys. She's never evil but an idealist turned cynic. Also, the main religions of the books are worship of an "unnamable god" and the "Ozmists" who follow an older pagan deity who they believe will return someday. In the background, the monotheists and pagans wage a war in the style of the Irish troubles while the Animals are dehumanized, stuffed in ghettoes and basically become an allegory for Jews, black people, Irish, Palestinians, and any oppressed minority you can name
Only because I’m reading currently but she literally talks about not caring about innocent lives being lost in crossfire? Maybe I misunderstood but it’s in discussion with Fiyero durring the emerald city section. She’s actually been a bit of a heartless character so far..
I love stories of authors who go into a story with one idea of a character, and when the character shows their true self, the author has to get out of their own way to let the character tell their own story. It's such a magical moment in the creative process.
I think those political tones in the story may have lost their specificity (I certainly didn’t think of Clinton or Bush when I first saw Wicked) but they haven’t lost their heft. I wish that it weren’t true but the concept of “you celebrate a unique person as long as it benefits you, and then publicly demonize their outward traits as soon as they disagree with you” is not only still relevant but increasingly so as modern day media and politics use it more and more shamelessly. If anything, it’s made Wicked slightly less subtle over time just by merit of how aware we all are of it now.
I really appreciate Maguire as an author - he gave a wonderful lecture at my university which I got to attend as part of a Wizard of Oz-focused class I was in. I cried listening to him talk about what the process of creating Wicked’s musical adaptation was like!
yup, I can't wait to watch. The thing that truly grabbed my perspective was listening to Defying Gravity, I never seen Wicked but heard the song in Glee, and re-listened to the Wicked version to prepare for the movie coming out, and those lyrics are too powerful not to mean something much bigger, so I went down a rabbit-hole
I read some where that Wicked, especially the novel, is an allegory to WW2. Once I learned that, Elphaba being played by a Jewish woman or a lady from another marginalized group makes sense
@@phoenixfritzinger9185 it’d be interesting if the film makes Elphie, Galinda, and Fiyero a throuple. I feel they are the only two people that truly loved her.
Oooh, fascinating your analysis about Elphaba leaving Oz, since, in hindsight, she's probably the one character who has traveled all over the country. She was born in Munchkinland, lived her childhood in Squadling Country, went to college / lived her first years of adulthood in the north (Gillikin and the Emerald City), and then spent her last years in the West.
yeah the insane mindless consumerism the upcoming film had spawned is definitely something elphaba would not agree with lol, but i’ve seen the director talk about how they’ve picked up a lot of elements from the book to accomodate the extended runtime so hopefully it taps more into the political side of the story. great video btw!
It would be incredibly timely if they did touch on some of the current political issues facing this country...I wasn't sure about Ariana Grande for Glinda, but recent clips of her portrayal make me SOOO excited for this movie.
You touch on it a little in the video, but the Finnish production is actually really interesting when it comes to the themes of populism/fascism. From the photos I've seen and things I've read, that production ratcheted up the authoritarian feel of Oz by doing things like having characters "disappeared" off stage by Oz soldiers and never seen again, designing the Wizard's lair with a lot of eye theming (Big Brother is watching you and all that) and costuming the Wizard to look like Joseph Stalin
The quote from LFB’s mother-in-law near the end of her life is basically “Defying Gravity” 😅 It’s also very much in the pattern of Elphaba’s speech (in the musical at least)!
Knowing that L.Frank Baum's extened family was into bits of occultism makes so much sense. Having Santa being raised by a lioness and a wood nymph. In a forest of immortals along with pretty much the Horned King is starting to connect a few dots 😅😂 (please read The Life and Adventures of Santa Claus)
Can you give me a bit more? I’m not about to go read a whole ass book (I don’t have time, and frankly I’ve never been a reader), but my interest is piqued. There’s a Santa in Oz? Trying to understand what Baum wrote that makes more sense knowing his family’s interest in the occult.
Oz being inspired by Edison feels so accurate, not just in the conman of it all but in that he generally got away with it because he was on the right side of history, until he wasn't.
I grew up fascinated with 1938 movie, acquired a second-hand copy of Aljean Hermetz' book in the 80's and read it so many times I am surprised it hasn't fallen apart. I also bought and read a number of "inspired by" Oz books (Notably "Was" by Geoff Ryman and "A Barnstormer of Oz" by Philip José Farmer), so of course I bought a hardcover copy of "Wicked" as soon as it was published and the cast album, T-Shirt, and baseball cap as soon as they were available. (The hat remains my bad hair day go-to.) When the show finally opened in Chicago, I was thrilled to finally see the Act II scene with Nessa and Boq, but what struck ME most about finally seeing the ending was how cynical it was. I didn't see Elphaba's survival and escape as uplifting but as depressing. It told me was that "Popular" was the moral of the entire show -- idealism and good intentions are fine, but they are not enough. They must be tempered to appeal to the masses. You MUST be popular first. BTW, I suspect it is due to our relative ages, but you (and most folks) missed a very prominent reference to Ronald Reagan in the bridge of "Popular". Sure, "the Teflon President" was was used by his flummoxed critics, but his supporters in the media dubbed him "The Great Communicator"!
Okay, wild recommendation, but there's a webcomic called "Yellow Brick Ramble" I've been spreading the gospel on - redoing "Land Of Oz" as a more explicit, jazzy, transgender romance. It's amazing. My sister GOES by Ozma since she transitioned. It's a meaningful name, anyway, the second half of the name is from Maud Gage. Baum was a hopeless lovebird. But yeah, the trans community, she means a lot. A cartoonist friend wants to call her memoir "But You're Different."
I agree with your comment up until you saying that popular was the morale of the entire show that idealism is good but it must be tempered. I don't think that's what the musical is saying at all. I think it's cynical yes it's realistic. it's showing how propaganda can make people hate someone who's actually on the right side of history and doing the right thing. everything you said was true even down to Reagan and it's true today too. if you want to be a politician or get far in life you do need to be popular being right and moral aren't enough to get anyone to care, to make a difference, sadly that's true. if you're doing everything right but the world is against you, yeah, you're not going to get anywhere. that's kind of how it works. that's a bad thing, yes, but that's reality. just look at the world we live in today. doing the right thing being a good person and having actual facts on your side don't matter all that matters is vibes and you can be the president twice. people don't even have to believe the words out of your mouth, they'll just project whatever they'd like to hear on top of your words if you say em right.
To be honest, I didn't fully notice the political themes of Wicked when I first saw the musical, but after seeing the movie and looking into the history of the story, it's clear as day & I love it even more
This was a wonderful video and I learned quite a bit so thank you for that. I really enjoyed learning about the author's mother in law that was quite fascinating. It is quite interesting that OZ was/should be a matriarchy when that wasn't a common view in children (or any really) media at that time. And yes I hope the film does dive a little deeper into darker elements of the book. I'm glad you included the original end of the show with Dr. Dillimond as since I first heard it I really enjoyed it. And yes I agree the NY ending works better for the relationship between Elphie and Glinda, but I would like Dr. Dillimond's plot point to be resolved somehow. And I know the film is already made, but now I kind of want that ending scene rewritten and added into part 2. I would say between Glinda telling the wizard off and the finale, she ends up finding Dr. Dillimond and tries to get him to remember her and say her name, now not caring that he can't pronounce it as "Ga"linda like she did during her school days. I think it would just be a more impactful moment when in the show her name change can be seen s a "joke", but this way there would be a sweet, important point. Plus then we would see, even if it's no public yet, Glinda is trying to carry on her best friend's work as she was asked and is also trying to be "Glinda The Good" for real. That is just my view on what I wish could be added. Keep up the great work and I hope once the movie comes out we'll hear from you again. And what are any of your hopes for the movie? Again wonderful job :)
I was already excited for the films' interpretation, but with your tour of its history, background and political themes, I am even more intrigued and will go into my next viewing with a greater appreciation of it. Fantastic job with the documentary.
Every use of the word Wicked in background sections of this video feels like in star wars the clone wars, whenever Anakin does something messed up and they take a second to pause and play the empire theme
first time watching one of your videos. It is not often on You Tube that an influencer can astonish me with an intelligent, thoughtful, accurate, truthful, and thought provoking persuasion. Bravissimo! I am excited most to see how the movie will interpret the love story between Fieryo and Elphaba. When Elphie finally lets go of her inhibitions and finds her truth to love herself embracing her imperfections and uniqueness, she gains the courage to love Fieryo on a level few will ever experience in this lifetime. I hear Mamma RU in my head, "Don't F*ck it up!"
I fell in love with Wicked, the novel, and read the sequels, Son of a Witch and A Lion of a Man. I was really put off of the musical as they changed and left out so much of the political intent. It sounds like the films are attempting to marry the musical back to its source. I hope it won't be a case of attempting to please everyone but pleasing none.
I feel the same way, and I wish the sequel books got more attention in general, because they're so interesting. I love how he plays around with timelines and elements from the original books.
I need to try reading them again, I was too young when I tried the first time... I got to the part where baby Elphaba ate a person's finger and it made me immediately close the book 😂
I find myself here after watching Wicked Part 1. Really thankful for your analysis of these films, books, and history. It’s interesting watching your video after Wicked’s film release, and after the 2024 U.S. election results. I do believe Wicked will go down in the history books as an important film. For all its escapism (and trust me, I’ve escaped into this world. Tonight, I watched this film in theatres for the second time in 7 days 😅), it really does tell the story, and delve into political themes and elements as I believe Wicked’s author intended. I’m so glad the film hit on the animal scapegoat plot line I hope people will see this film. I hope it does win awards. I hope we learn from these books, and these beautiful films. But if history is any indication, it’ll take more than a film adaptation and horrible election results to move people into positive change. Sometimes, humans have to learn the hard way, that wrong is wrong.
Fantastic work as always, man. I can't believe how much this channel has grown, but its all down to your passion for the subject matter and your commitment to a fair and accurate view of history. Your perspective is so appreciated. Also, where can I get merch for LFB's MIL cause I think I would die for her
Thank you for this Video! It is SO important to dig deep into the material, because Wicked is such a great story for the times we live in in reality. It is way more than just a story about friendship, or for good merchandise. I am afraid people will overlook this in all the bubbles and CGI of the movie. As much I look forward to the movie,I am also scared about the "loss" of what Wicked really means. So we cannot point this out enough.
I always thought that the other Oz books showed how much dorothy and glinda were really hard on other folks in the realm, and their hoarding of magic. Wicked seemed just what i wanted as an adult prequel.
yeah I agree. The witch who was enlisted to hide Ozma BY THE WIZARD ended up being punished, forbidden to use magic, Glinda putting a forget spell on her and stealing her magic books. That was horrible. Then in a later book, the Wizard returned and that story retconned to make him look innocent and Ozma and Glinda actually teaching him real magic. I was appalled
Just came back from the movie, which was my first experience with this work, and wow! I had to know more about this story because I just didn’t understand how people go back to the original movie without hating the “good” characters and this video answered most of my questions! Can’t believe how relevant this story is in present times, but also can’t believe how close it got to most people’s feelings back in the day. Great story.
Ohh, yes. I think so, too, and right now, with all of the dirt coming to light from the Time's Up movement that is effectively shattering our society's celebrity worship.
Your presentation and narration are excellent! I really appreciated your section on Baum's mother-in-law. And that cast member saying, "They are making these {Wicked} films to win Oscars" is right on and tells us exactly what we can expect. It also tells us exactly why "WICKED" was divided into two films. It's a cash grab and Oscar bait, pure and simple. The business of Hollyweird. Hopefully, the films will be good and worthy "Oscar bait." If they disappoint, there's still the timelessness and sincerity of Judy Garland in MGM's 1939 "THE WIZARD OF OZ", which I prefer, anyway.
i suppose the fact that the movie is divided in 2 parts, with a total runtime of nearly 5 hours, mean that it will bring back some of the more radical elements present in the book and softened by the musical adaptation. as you said, some of the biting commentary in the musical is less biting now that we witnessed the past 20 years in politics... and i think that means a new adaptation needs sharper teeth. also, another belief i have when it comes to the movies is that the first one will make LOTS of money, and the second will have less demand because we already had the lighter part and the more famous songs. leaves a lot of runtime for Wicked II to explore Elphaba's politics.
Been struggling making my own video of this nature! This is so good. I’ve been fascinated with the world of the wicked novels for some time. It’s the version of Oz that if you peel back all of the high vocabulary and descriptions and just leave the story, it’s so great what he’s done. The way I wonder about the happenings in Oz is great.
thank you! i love your channel, especially since we all benefit from your research and synthesizing from all of the source material that you responsibly give credit! keep up the wonderful work.
I devoured this video essay! So so good! From a European point of view, to me the politics are what makes Wicked stand apart from the other more "commercial" musicals. As smooth as they are compared to the book, there's still enough lines and plot points that it's still very present and clear what Wicked stands for and what it's commenting on. I also hate that the story gets more relevant every passing year, how ironic indeed that the long awaited movie version will get released just after an important election, but I guess it wouldn't be Oz if it didn't have its pulse on where the USA are now.
I am really excited for the expansion of the Magic System. In the book and the musical, magic is very matter of fact and yet very untangiable. For what I saw on the trailer I am guessing they're gonna give Elpahaba time to understand and work through her magic. One thing that is very clear in the musical is how connected her powers are to her emotions, so I believe if they handle it well, that could be an amazing tool and reflection of her inner journey, I'm excited to see. On the other hand, on both, her magic comes from being a "daughter of two worlds", and I would love for the script to go deeper into that notion.
I really, REALLY want them to give Fiyero the diamonds in his skin, though I doubt they have done that seeing the trailer. It's such a small detail that I really want them to include.
I know this will never happen but I would love to see Liir or a character like him in the second movie. The scenes with him and elphaba were some of my favorites.
this was such an incredible episode, I really enjoyed watching it. so well researched and edited and I'm so grateful for any kind of content that acknowledges Maguire's book because its politics and philosophies are so fascinating and important. that being said, I desperately hope that the movie will deliver more on the queer subtext of the book, although I'm kind of pessimistic of how far they'll go while trying to appeal to a mainstream audience...
Interestingly, Wicked was the first Broadway play that I saw on Broadway, and during that same trip to New York in 2015, my mom told me that, "a very awful man is running for president, although he has virtually no chance since he has no political experience." We had of course just walked passed Trump Tower.
Oh, you came so close to actually mentioning Finland's platantly Stalin inspired depiction of the Wizard but swerved right around it. A really interesting video! Wicked (the Finnish production) was the of the first musicals to really make me into a musical fan and I have also seen it in London and the Hague (the British and the Dutch productions), as well as read the original book at one point. And the comments about the story being more relevant than ever with populism on the rise are quite chilling.
Wicked premiered when I was in Middle School/High School so while I have loved it for a long time, I hadn’t really interrogated the political aspects of it…and then I took my cousin to see it on Broadway the weekend after the 2016 election, and was a little shocked at how blatantly political it was (and how much the audience reacted to some of those lines you mentioned). I always pictured it as a much more sanitized version of the book, and while it is, it definitely has moments of commentary on the the Bush administration in particular and corrupted populism in general (and I’m sure the movie will read to some as a reaction to the Trmp admin).
I'm probably the only one, but I would love to see some of the old Oz vaudeville shows get modern productions. They're kind of an odd little footnote, but I think it would be fun.
Love this video! And so glad you actually have read the book. I’ve been watching a lot of Oz video essays lately by people who have just read the book summary on Wikipedia. I will need to look more into LFB’s mother in law and her works, so so interesting
I'm here after the 2024 elections and after the release of the movie adaptation of the Broadway adaptation of the book; directed by Jon Chu. This is so spot on.
it is interesting that glinda stayed with the regime that gave her some power by fitting in and for elpheba it made more sense to withdraw from the system.
I love Wicked deeply. The show debuted when I was in high school, and I was obsessed from the first time I heard a piece of the music. But I have to be honest, I am not looking forward to the screen adaptation. Jon Chu is a great director, but the choice to split it into two movies is a red flag to me, on top of the fact that this project was in development hell for, like, 15 years. There hasn't been a single detail I've learned about this project that has given me confidence in a strong final product, but I truly do hope that I'm worried for nothing.
My dad used to always tell me about how George W. was basically the wizard from Wicked. It was somewhat funny how he’s always segue into it, but was he wrong?
ok but that george bush thing with the "would an audience in a period of relative affluence take to a super political play" or whatever and then the shot of the towers was brilliant
I strongly think that Fiyero's changes and the addition of the love triangle, even if it wasn't documented or conscious, were influenced by the popularity of Aida on Broadway. Tell me musical Fiyero doesn't feel like Radames.
this is very interesting after watching the movie this past weekend I felt it was more needed than ever especially with the election just happening. I literally described the Wiz as Trump to my cousins.
idk why but i assumed this would be about the politics of the book Wicked. but the fact that it's about the musical is much more relevant! all the political stuff in the musical went over my head as a kid, so i'm glad i'm learning about it now. especially with the release and apparent success of the first movie, it's important that we don't forget its very political roots.
I think that Maguire spotted something that the rest of the readers/viewers of either Baum's original or the movie either chose to ignore of simply did not see. The Wizard is a con-man. He has NO magic, merely American Chutzpah and that, and that alone allows him claim and hold power, despite the fact he is in a land where Magic is real. And there is a Political analogy from even Baum's time. In the 1890s, US business people overthrew the legitimate government of Hawaii and seized power - and the US recognised the usurpers as the legitimate rulers. Again, in the 1920s and 1930s, before the making of the movie, there were various military "interventions" (aka invasions) of various Central American countries in order to support various US fruit companies. All of these were clear examples of US Imperialism in action, lead by American "Business" people (aka "Con-men"), the US, with overwhelming public support from the US population, created and maintained an overseas Empire, in every way as oppressive as the then current European empires. Maybe Baum did not see the parallel (certainly with Hawaii), but I sense that Maguire did. And then we come to the 2000s and the release of the Musical, when the Book of the Musical focuses on the "politicians" failures, it again obscures the "Con-men" then exemplified by Haliburton and the various "Contractors" committing atrocities while getting obscenely wealthy in Iraq and elsewhere - and still facing no consequences - just like the Wizard in the Original Baum creation... And then we come to 2024 where much of the US has been in Thrall to a Businessman/Con-Man for almost a decade; a Con-Man lauded by large parts of the US Media; A Con-Man who doesn't even pretend to care for much of the US population or political rules; who threatens to be a "Dictator on day one" and to throw his political opponents into camps; yet, who is still supported not only by the successors of the Overthrowers of Hawaii and Central America and Iraq, but also by modern "Con-Men" like Musk. Maguire saw this and warned us about this - but Americans just wanted a "Good Tune". It may be something too many sing in Trump's Camps....
The thing is that I know the wizard is a con man. He isn’t a good person but, to me Maguire overdid it on how awful the wizard is. In the wicked book the wizard is like Hitler and has SAed Elphaba’s mom. Both the book and musical make the wizard worse to make Elphaba better in comparison. The wicked witch of the west was genuinely a horrible person in the original book and i doubt Baum thought about redeeming her. Heck she wasn’t even green in the original book. In life there is more than one bad guy. The hunger games nailed it by having someone like president snow but, also having someone like President Coin. At least the wizard owned up to his mistakes in the original book. And he did eventually try to get Dorothy home. 🤷♀️
40:11 we just went and saw it last month in SF (last time we saw it was 2009 at the same venue) and we found it still quite topical and relevant. I could see Bush, and I could see Trump as well. "unelected official" and "regime change" got lots of laughs.
I would REALLY like to see a movie based on the book. I’m going to see the musical today- going in with the attitude that the only thing that will be like the book will be the characters names, I’m going to view it as a totally different story. It’s taken me 20yrs to come around to viewing the musical. I’m huge fan of the book.
My friends from college and I made a date to see Wicked when it came to LA. Prior to that my mother bought me the book knowing I was going to see the musical.
I had always been a fan of The Wizard of Oz, as well as a bullied outsider growing up, and in reading that book I identified very much with Elphaba. On serveral occasions while reading I broke down in tears. Big, ugly heaving sobs. It affected me so much I cry just thinking about it.
When I saw the musical I was *pissed.* It was my best friend, who had also read the book, who soothed my anger by noting that she felt we had seen the same story from three different perspectives.
The original is Dorothy's perspective, as a child who doesn't understand the political machinations she's being subjected to.
The book is Elphaba's perspective, as the outsider who sees these machinations.
The musical is Glinda's perspective, and all she sees is her friend.
i love the comment and hope to read the book soon. very interesting way to look at the formats of the musical, book and movie
I love this
I have to comment on this excellent comment👏👏👏👏bravo👏👏👏👏well said
Yes, this! It also goes to one of the themes within the story itself about who tells the story, and in how the medium is part of the character of each of those stories. I only just realized this recently, and it blew my mind!
That's very beautifully put. Thank you for your comment.
The backstory of Baum's mother in law is fascinating considering in the book Fiyero, Elphaba's lover, is meant to be ambiguously indigenous, and later on she goes on to live with his wife and sisters in law in the mountains.
Isn’t Fiyero described as black?
@@tigercomet23 Certainly a POC. Gregory Maguire told me he originally conceived him resembling someone of South Asian descent.
say more
@@tigercomet23 His skin is described as ochre. I've always imagined him and his family as like a Mughal dynasty.
Fiyero was described as looking like he was from southern India, and his culture was reminiscent of the Scottish Highlands, with a clan-based social structure ruled by chieftains in mountaintop castles. There was nothing "indigenous" about them.
I read the book back in my teens and Elphaba's struggle and failure to make real change in the world is so relatable now in my 20s. She wants to help the Animals, overthrow the Wizard but didn't want to kill innocents, and finally she just gives up and lives in the mountains with her flying monkeys. She's never evil but an idealist turned cynic. Also, the main religions of the books are worship of an "unnamable god" and the "Ozmists" who follow an older pagan deity who they believe will return someday. In the background, the monotheists and pagans wage a war in the style of the Irish troubles while the Animals are dehumanized, stuffed in ghettoes and basically become an allegory for Jews, black people, Irish, Palestinians, and any oppressed minority you can name
Also there’s a new religion called “tiktokism” about self pleasure that’s really funny if you read it today
Thank you for this context/input! I’d love to read the novel as well
Well said!! 👏👏👏🥰
Only because I’m reading currently but she literally talks about not caring about innocent lives being lost in crossfire? Maybe I misunderstood but it’s in discussion with Fiyero durring the emerald city section. She’s actually been a bit of a heartless character so far..
Your comment is so spot on though such a mirror to the real world I think some people who don’t enjoy the book fail to see this
I love stories of authors who go into a story with one idea of a character, and when the character shows their true self, the author has to get out of their own way to let the character tell their own story. It's such a magical moment in the creative process.
I think those political tones in the story may have lost their specificity (I certainly didn’t think of Clinton or Bush when I first saw Wicked) but they haven’t lost their heft. I wish that it weren’t true but the concept of “you celebrate a unique person as long as it benefits you, and then publicly demonize their outward traits as soon as they disagree with you” is not only still relevant but increasingly so as modern day media and politics use it more and more shamelessly.
If anything, it’s made Wicked slightly less subtle over time just by merit of how aware we all are of it now.
True
I really appreciate Maguire as an author - he gave a wonderful lecture at my university which I got to attend as part of a Wizard of Oz-focused class I was in. I cried listening to him talk about what the process of creating Wicked’s musical adaptation was like!
That class sounds amazing. I wish I attended.
@@jodgee2374 same here 😢
Well done. So much more to Wicked than "Popular," a love triangle, and friendship.
yup, I can't wait to watch. The thing that truly grabbed my perspective was listening to Defying Gravity, I never seen Wicked but heard the song in Glee, and re-listened to the Wicked version to prepare for the movie coming out, and those lyrics are too powerful not to mean something much bigger, so I went down a rabbit-hole
I read some where that Wicked, especially the novel, is an allegory to WW2. Once I learned that, Elphaba being played by a Jewish woman or a lady from another marginalized group makes sense
Well “friendship” is definitely one way to describe Elphaba and Glinda’s relationship
@@phoenixfritzinger9185 it’d be interesting if the film makes Elphie, Galinda, and Fiyero a throuple. I feel they are the only two people that truly loved her.
@@christinebelzie194 Glad I’m not the only one who has those vibes. Of course, shipping triads out of love triangles is my toxic trait
gen z who grew up watching/reading wicked. thank you for explaining the regime change joke. i was always very confused about that.
Happy to help 👴👴👴
Oooh, fascinating your analysis about Elphaba leaving Oz, since, in hindsight, she's probably the one character who has traveled all over the country. She was born in Munchkinland, lived her childhood in Squadling Country, went to college / lived her first years of adulthood in the north (Gillikin and the Emerald City), and then spent her last years in the West.
yeah the insane mindless consumerism the upcoming film had spawned is definitely something elphaba would not agree with lol, but i’ve seen the director talk about how they’ve picked up a lot of elements from the book to accomodate the extended runtime so hopefully it taps more into the political side of the story. great video btw!
It would be incredibly timely if they did touch on some of the current political issues facing this country...I wasn't sure about Ariana Grande for Glinda, but recent clips of her portrayal make me SOOO excited for this movie.
You touch on it a little in the video, but the Finnish production is actually really interesting when it comes to the themes of populism/fascism. From the photos I've seen and things I've read, that production ratcheted up the authoritarian feel of Oz by doing things like having characters "disappeared" off stage by Oz soldiers and never seen again, designing the Wizard's lair with a lot of eye theming (Big Brother is watching you and all that) and costuming the Wizard to look like Joseph Stalin
Stalin wasn't a fascist he led the Soviets to kill the fascists in the second world war....
The quote from LFB’s mother-in-law near the end of her life is basically “Defying Gravity” 😅 It’s also very much in the pattern of Elphaba’s speech (in the musical at least)!
Matilda Gage was punk before punk existed. Amazing woman.
Totally punk. X
Knowing that L.Frank Baum's extened family was into bits of occultism makes so much sense. Having Santa being raised by a lioness and a wood nymph. In a forest of immortals along with pretty much the Horned King is starting to connect a few dots 😅😂 (please read The Life and Adventures of Santa Claus)
Also watch the Rankin Bass adaptations of the life and adventures of Santa Claus.
Ok I’ve never read it but that sounds WILD thanks for the rec!
@@Suchwerewolf You're welcome!
@@sakunarufulthat’s my favorite version of Santa!
Can you give me a bit more? I’m not about to go read a whole ass book (I don’t have time, and frankly I’ve never been a reader), but my interest is piqued. There’s a Santa in Oz? Trying to understand what Baum wrote that makes more sense knowing his family’s interest in the occult.
Oz being inspired by Edison feels so accurate, not just in the conman of it all but in that he generally got away with it because he was on the right side of history, until he wasn't.
I grew up fascinated with 1938 movie, acquired a second-hand copy of Aljean Hermetz' book in the 80's and read it so many times I am surprised it hasn't fallen apart. I also bought and read a number of "inspired by" Oz books (Notably "Was" by Geoff Ryman and "A Barnstormer of Oz" by Philip José Farmer), so of course I bought a hardcover copy of "Wicked" as soon as it was published and the cast album, T-Shirt, and baseball cap as soon as they were available. (The hat remains my bad hair day go-to.) When the show finally opened in Chicago, I was thrilled to finally see the Act II scene with Nessa and Boq, but what struck ME most about finally seeing the ending was how cynical it was.
I didn't see Elphaba's survival and escape as uplifting but as depressing. It told me was that "Popular" was the moral of the entire show -- idealism and good intentions are fine, but they are not enough. They must be tempered to appeal to the masses. You MUST be popular first.
BTW, I suspect it is due to our relative ages, but you (and most folks) missed a very prominent reference to Ronald Reagan in the bridge of "Popular". Sure, "the Teflon President" was was used by his flummoxed critics, but his supporters in the media dubbed him "The Great Communicator"!
Okay, wild recommendation, but there's a webcomic called "Yellow Brick Ramble" I've been spreading the gospel on - redoing "Land Of Oz" as a more explicit, jazzy, transgender romance. It's amazing.
My sister GOES by Ozma since she transitioned. It's a meaningful name, anyway, the second half of the name is from Maud Gage. Baum was a hopeless lovebird. But yeah, the trans community, she means a lot. A cartoonist friend wants to call her memoir "But You're Different."
I agree with your comment up until you saying that popular was the morale of the entire show that idealism is good but it must be tempered. I don't think that's what the musical is saying at all. I think it's cynical yes it's realistic. it's showing how propaganda can make people hate someone who's actually on the right side of history and doing the right thing. everything you said was true even down to Reagan and it's true today too. if you want to be a politician or get far in life you do need to be popular being right and moral aren't enough to get anyone to care, to make a difference, sadly that's true. if you're doing everything right but the world is against you, yeah, you're not going to get anywhere. that's kind of how it works. that's a bad thing, yes, but that's reality.
just look at the world we live in today. doing the right thing being a good person and having actual facts on your side don't matter all that matters is vibes and you can be the president twice. people don't even have to believe the words out of your mouth, they'll just project whatever they'd like to hear on top of your words if you say em right.
I don't often comment on videos, but man, thanks for all that research! It made the whole video worth a rewatch
This is one of the better theatre video essays on UA-cam!
I was today years old when I realized that the emcee from Cabaret played the Wizard in Wicked!
Joel Gray!
To be honest, I didn't fully notice the political themes of Wicked when I first saw the musical, but after seeing the movie and looking into the history of the story, it's clear as day & I love it even more
This was a wonderful video and I learned quite a bit so thank you for that. I really enjoyed learning about the author's mother in law that was quite fascinating. It is quite interesting that OZ was/should be a matriarchy when that wasn't a common view in children (or any really) media at that time. And yes I hope the film does dive a little deeper into darker elements of the book.
I'm glad you included the original end of the show with Dr. Dillimond as since I first heard it I really enjoyed it. And yes I agree the NY ending works better for the relationship between Elphie and Glinda, but I would like Dr. Dillimond's plot point to be resolved somehow. And I know the film is already made, but now I kind of want that ending scene rewritten and added into part 2. I would say between Glinda telling the wizard off and the finale, she ends up finding Dr. Dillimond and tries to get him to remember her and say her name, now not caring that he can't pronounce it as "Ga"linda like she did during her school days. I think it would just be a more impactful moment when in the show her name change can be seen s a "joke", but this way there would be a sweet, important point. Plus then we would see, even if it's no public yet, Glinda is trying to carry on her best friend's work as she was asked and is also trying to be "Glinda The Good" for real. That is just my view on what I wish could be added.
Keep up the great work and I hope once the movie comes out we'll hear from you again. And what are any of your hopes for the movie? Again wonderful job :)
This is the Wicked video essay I’ve been waiting for- THANK YOU
Incredible research on all the source materials. I always look forward to your videos. Wicked Witch Forever!
X
I was already excited for the films' interpretation, but with your tour of its history, background and political themes, I am even more intrigued and will go into my next viewing with a greater appreciation of it. Fantastic job with the documentary.
50:06 ="I am not that Girl"... It's the song that made me accept I will never be chosen by anyone and it's fine.
Thank you for informing me about Matilda Gage she is fascinating
Again, this gem comes up because of my perfectly curated algorithm.
I came in interested in the title topic and ended up leaving OBSESSED with Matilda Gage
Every use of the word Wicked in background sections of this video feels like in star wars the clone wars, whenever Anakin does something messed up and they take a second to pause and play the empire theme
first time watching one of your videos. It is not often on You Tube that an influencer can astonish me with an intelligent, thoughtful, accurate, truthful, and thought provoking persuasion. Bravissimo!
I am excited most to see how the movie will interpret the love story between Fieryo and Elphaba. When Elphie finally lets go of her inhibitions and finds her truth to love herself embracing her imperfections and uniqueness, she gains the courage to love Fieryo on a level few will ever experience in this lifetime. I hear Mamma RU in my head, "Don't F*ck it up!"
watching this video right now of all times hits
I fell in love with Wicked, the novel, and read the sequels, Son of a Witch and A Lion of a Man. I was really put off of the musical as they changed and left out so much of the political intent. It sounds like the films are attempting to marry the musical back to its source.
I hope it won't be a case of attempting to please everyone but pleasing none.
I feel the same way, and I wish the sequel books got more attention in general, because they're so interesting. I love how he plays around with timelines and elements from the original books.
I need to try reading them again, I was too young when I tried the first time... I got to the part where baby Elphaba ate a person's finger and it made me immediately close the book 😂
That is my concern about the films as well: "attempting to please everyone but pleasing none."
@@jenkinsjrjenkinsYou missed the Tiger sex.
Hi! It’s me from the future!
Glad to say that they did a BEAUTIFUL job on every level.
I find myself here after watching Wicked Part 1. Really thankful for your analysis of these films, books, and history. It’s interesting watching your video after Wicked’s film release, and after the 2024 U.S. election results. I do believe Wicked will go down in the history books as an important film. For all its escapism (and trust me, I’ve escaped into this world. Tonight, I watched this film in theatres for the second time in 7 days 😅), it really does tell the story, and delve into political themes and elements as I believe Wicked’s author intended. I’m so glad the film hit on the animal scapegoat plot line I hope people will see this film. I hope it does win awards. I hope we learn from these books, and these beautiful films. But if history is any indication, it’ll take more than a film adaptation and horrible election results to move people into positive change. Sometimes, humans have to learn the hard way, that wrong is wrong.
Oh my god! I am so excited for this!
Fantastic work as always, man. I can't believe how much this channel has grown, but its all down to your passion for the subject matter and your commitment to a fair and accurate view of history. Your perspective is so appreciated.
Also, where can I get merch for LFB's MIL cause I think I would die for her
I would too.
Thank you for this Video! It is SO important to dig deep into the material, because Wicked is such a great story for the times we live in in reality. It is way more than just a story about friendship, or for good merchandise. I am afraid people will overlook this in all the bubbles and CGI of the movie. As much I look forward to the movie,I am also scared about the "loss" of what Wicked really means. So we cannot point this out enough.
I always thought that the other Oz books showed how much dorothy and glinda were really hard on other folks in the realm, and their hoarding of magic. Wicked seemed just what i wanted as an adult prequel.
yeah I agree. The witch who was enlisted to hide Ozma BY THE WIZARD ended up being punished, forbidden to use magic, Glinda putting a forget spell on her and stealing her magic books. That was horrible. Then in a later book, the Wizard returned and that story retconned to make him look innocent and Ozma and Glinda actually teaching him real magic. I was appalled
@@CrystalClearNews And we don't find out what happened to the King who disappeared when the Wizard took over
You truly have one of the best video essays on musical theater. Thank you 🙏
Just came back from the movie, which was my first experience with this work, and wow! I had to know more about this story because I just didn’t understand how people go back to the original movie without hating the “good” characters and this video answered most of my questions! Can’t believe how relevant this story is in present times, but also can’t believe how close it got to most people’s feelings back in the day. Great story.
Ohh, yes. I think so, too, and right now, with all of the dirt coming to light from the Time's Up movement that is effectively shattering our society's celebrity worship.
Your presentation and narration are excellent! I really appreciated your section on Baum's mother-in-law. And that cast member saying, "They are making these {Wicked} films to win Oscars" is right on and tells us exactly what we can expect. It also tells us exactly why "WICKED" was divided into two films. It's a cash grab and Oscar bait, pure and simple. The business of Hollyweird. Hopefully, the films will be good and worthy "Oscar bait." If they disappoint, there's still the timelessness and sincerity of Judy Garland in MGM's 1939 "THE WIZARD OF OZ", which I prefer, anyway.
Damn you’re negative.
Have you seen the movie yet? Did you change your mind or cement your initial thoughts?
Watched your cabaret video earlier, got curious about what other videos might catch my eye, and ended up being early
i suppose the fact that the movie is divided in 2 parts, with a total runtime of nearly 5 hours, mean that it will bring back some of the more radical elements present in the book and softened by the musical adaptation. as you said, some of the biting commentary in the musical is less biting now that we witnessed the past 20 years in politics... and i think that means a new adaptation needs sharper teeth. also, another belief i have when it comes to the movies is that the first one will make LOTS of money, and the second will have less demand because we already had the lighter part and the more famous songs. leaves a lot of runtime for Wicked II to explore Elphaba's politics.
This was incredibly interesting and informative. Thank you!
This video is really really really great. I wish more people made video essays like this.
Watching this after having seen Wicked: Part 1 in the theater.
Been struggling making my own video of this nature! This is so good. I’ve been fascinated with the world of the wicked novels for some time. It’s the version of Oz that if you peel back all of the high vocabulary and descriptions and just leave the story, it’s so great what he’s done. The way I wonder about the happenings in Oz is great.
Thank you! X
thank you!
i love your channel, especially since we all benefit from your research and synthesizing from all of the source material that you responsibly give credit! keep up the wonderful work.
Come for Wicked facts - stay for Matilda Joslyn Gage who should get a musical, a movie and a TV show about her!
I devoured this video essay! So so good! From a European point of view, to me the politics are what makes Wicked stand apart from the other more "commercial" musicals. As smooth as they are compared to the book, there's still enough lines and plot points that it's still very present and clear what Wicked stands for and what it's commenting on. I also hate that the story gets more relevant every passing year, how ironic indeed that the long awaited movie version will get released just after an important election, but I guess it wouldn't be Oz if it didn't have its pulse on where the USA are now.
Thank you for watching! X
I love how you had RuPal and Michelle reacting!
Watching this after the 2024 election. 😅
The movie hits harder after the election 😪
@ it definitely does! I saw it yesterday and the way it reflects our current political situation is spot on.
@@sergiotorres3202 yes I saw it last night as well it was amazing
But none of the MAGA people I know seem to notice it or saw the same meaning .
thank you for making this video. I needed to see someone else talking about all these things I have been thinking about.
I am really excited for the expansion of the Magic System. In the book and the musical, magic is very matter of fact and yet very untangiable. For what I saw on the trailer I am guessing they're gonna give Elpahaba time to understand and work through her magic. One thing that is very clear in the musical is how connected her powers are to her emotions, so I believe if they handle it well, that could be an amazing tool and reflection of her inner journey, I'm excited to see. On the other hand, on both, her magic comes from being a "daughter of two worlds", and I would love for the script to go deeper into that notion.
I really, REALLY want them to give Fiyero the diamonds in his skin, though I doubt they have done that seeing the trailer. It's such a small detail that I really want them to include.
baums mother in law sounds iconic
Well researched and beautifully told story of Wicked. Thank you for your scholarship. 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
Thanks a lot for the explanation, so intresting... I really enjoy that book... and thanks to you I want to read it again...
I know this will never happen but I would love to see Liir or a character like him in the second movie. The scenes with him and elphaba were some of my favorites.
Well, now I'm looking for hope in the face of enormous political obstacles
This is an incredible video essay!
What an incredible historical figure to learn about in Matilda Gage. A true patriot. Wow
this was such an incredible episode, I really enjoyed watching it. so well researched and edited and I'm so grateful for any kind of content that acknowledges Maguire's book because its politics and philosophies are so fascinating and important. that being said, I desperately hope that the movie will deliver more on the queer subtext of the book, although I'm kind of pessimistic of how far they'll go while trying to appeal to a mainstream audience...
This was such amazing work well done!
Interestingly, Wicked was the first Broadway play that I saw on Broadway, and during that same trip to New York in 2015, my mom told me that, "a very awful man is running for president, although he has virtually no chance since he has no political experience." We had of course just walked passed Trump Tower.
Oh, you came so close to actually mentioning Finland's platantly Stalin inspired depiction of the Wizard but swerved right around it.
A really interesting video! Wicked (the Finnish production) was the of the first musicals to really make me into a musical fan and I have also seen it in London and the Hague (the British and the Dutch productions), as well as read the original book at one point. And the comments about the story being more relevant than ever with populism on the rise are quite chilling.
I think Hamiltons' natural nose aided in the rest of the prosthetics not looking uncanny. She looks great in the role, its iconic.
What a beautiful video! So well done.
Wicked premiered when I was in Middle School/High School so while I have loved it for a long time, I hadn’t really interrogated the political aspects of it…and then I took my cousin to see it on Broadway the weekend after the 2016 election, and was a little shocked at how blatantly political it was (and how much the audience reacted to some of those lines you mentioned). I always pictured it as a much more sanitized version of the book, and while it is, it definitely has moments of commentary on the the Bush administration in particular and corrupted populism in general (and I’m sure the movie will read to some as a reaction to the Trmp admin).
Great discussions in this video!
Thanks!
I'm probably the only one, but I would love to see some of the old Oz vaudeville shows get modern productions. They're kind of an odd little footnote, but I think it would be fun.
Love this video! And so glad you actually have read the book. I’ve been watching a lot of Oz video essays lately by people who have just read the book summary on Wikipedia. I will need to look more into LFB’s mother in law and her works, so so interesting
I think it woulda be interesting to see Margaret Hamilton star in "Wicked." Her "witch" is so great.
She died almost 40 years ago.
If she were alive she would be over 120 yrs old, so starting in a musical might be a lot to ask of her.
@@mimiisrofl - I know that. Apparently the comment went over your head.....and yours wasn't funny. At all.
i don't know for other countries, but the production of wicked in brazil can't never not be political
Thank you so much for this enlightening video!!
I'm here after the 2024 elections and after the release of the movie adaptation of the Broadway adaptation of the book; directed by Jon Chu. This is so spot on.
I am so fascinated by Matilda- I had no idea about her! Thank you for letting us know about this remarkable woman!
I wonder if the Avenue Q movie will come out before the Oscars? Vote with your heart! Lol😂
it is interesting that glinda stayed with the regime that gave her some power by fitting in and for elpheba it made more sense to withdraw from the system.
I love Wicked deeply. The show debuted when I was in high school, and I was obsessed from the first time I heard a piece of the music. But I have to be honest, I am not looking forward to the screen adaptation. Jon Chu is a great director, but the choice to split it into two movies is a red flag to me, on top of the fact that this project was in development hell for, like, 15 years. There hasn't been a single detail I've learned about this project that has given me confidence in a strong final product, but I truly do hope that I'm worried for nothing.
I’m sure you’ll be glad to know it turned out GREAT 💗
My dad used to always tell me about how George W. was basically the wizard from Wicked. It was somewhat funny how he’s always segue into it, but was he wrong?
This is my Favorite musical 😀❤️❗️
Elphaba is my Favorite #1 comfort charather
This video is awesome! Congrats!
That laugh gave me goosebumps OMG!!! 8:13
i walked out of the wicked movie only really thinking about the politics
Great presentation. Too bad the dozen UA-cam ads broke in at inappropriate times to turn it into chaos.
Maguire's whole Oz series is damn brilliant and great
'That is more than "I guess we're friends"'
Agreed
I hope these films have nuance
Amazing video!!! 👍🏾
ok but that george bush thing with the "would an audience in a period of relative affluence take to a super political play" or whatever and then the shot of the towers was brilliant
Weird fun fact: In the original 2005 premiere in Chicago, Elphaba was played by the infamous Ana Gasteyer (best known for her SNL career)
I’m amazed Mayim Bialik hasn’t starred in a Margaret Hamilton biopic. That would be Oscars gold!
she’s too busy pandering genocid@l propaganda on twitter to do all that, not to mention she’s just a bad actor lol
Matilda Joslyn Gage - what a woman!! I hope there are soft references to her across the two films. I want to write a film about her.
The parable resonates even more now, especially since 2016.
I strongly think that Fiyero's changes and the addition of the love triangle, even if it wasn't documented or conscious, were influenced by the popularity of Aida on Broadway. Tell me musical Fiyero doesn't feel like Radames.
I am looking forward to how they portray the Muscical Number For Good with Elpheba and Glinda.
Please read the book! It’s fabulous.
this is very interesting after watching the movie this past weekend I felt it was more needed than ever especially with the election just happening. I literally described the Wiz as Trump to my cousins.
I saw Ivanka in Glinda.
idk why but i assumed this would be about the politics of the book Wicked. but the fact that it's about the musical is much more relevant! all the political stuff in the musical went over my head as a kid, so i'm glad i'm learning about it now. especially with the release and apparent success of the first movie, it's important that we don't forget its very political roots.
I think that Maguire spotted something that the rest of the readers/viewers of either Baum's original or the movie either chose to ignore of simply did not see. The Wizard is a con-man. He has NO magic, merely American Chutzpah and that, and that alone allows him claim and hold power, despite the fact he is in a land where Magic is real.
And there is a Political analogy from even Baum's time. In the 1890s, US business people overthrew the legitimate government of Hawaii and seized power - and the US recognised the usurpers as the legitimate rulers.
Again, in the 1920s and 1930s, before the making of the movie, there were various military "interventions" (aka invasions) of various Central American countries in order to support various US fruit companies.
All of these were clear examples of US Imperialism in action, lead by American "Business" people (aka "Con-men"), the US, with overwhelming public support from the US population, created and maintained an overseas Empire, in every way as oppressive as the then current European empires.
Maybe Baum did not see the parallel (certainly with Hawaii), but I sense that Maguire did.
And then we come to the 2000s and the release of the Musical, when the Book of the Musical focuses on the "politicians" failures, it again obscures the "Con-men" then exemplified by Haliburton and the various "Contractors" committing atrocities while getting obscenely wealthy in Iraq and elsewhere - and still facing no consequences - just like the Wizard in the Original Baum creation...
And then we come to 2024 where much of the US has been in Thrall to a Businessman/Con-Man for almost a decade; a Con-Man lauded by large parts of the US Media; A Con-Man who doesn't even pretend to care for much of the US population or political rules; who threatens to be a "Dictator on day one" and to throw his political opponents into camps; yet, who is still supported not only by the successors of the Overthrowers of Hawaii and Central America and Iraq, but also by modern "Con-Men" like Musk.
Maguire saw this and warned us about this - but Americans just wanted a "Good Tune".
It may be something too many sing in Trump's Camps....
The thing is that I know the wizard is a con man. He isn’t a good person but, to me Maguire overdid it on how awful the wizard is. In the wicked book the wizard is like Hitler and has SAed Elphaba’s mom. Both the book and musical make the wizard worse to make Elphaba better in comparison. The wicked witch of the west was genuinely a horrible person in the original book and i doubt Baum thought about redeeming her. Heck she wasn’t even green in the original book.
In life there is more than one bad guy. The hunger games nailed it by having someone like president snow but, also having someone like President Coin. At least the wizard owned up to his mistakes in the original book. And he did eventually try to get Dorothy home. 🤷♀️
40:11 we just went and saw it last month in SF (last time we saw it was 2009 at the same venue) and we found it still quite topical and relevant. I could see Bush, and I could see Trump as well. "unelected official" and "regime change" got lots of laughs.
That’s comical. Seeing as Harris was the unelected official.
@kelly_villalobos ? I think you took one too many stupid pills today
She was elected VP @@kelly_villalobos
I would REALLY like to see a movie based on the book. I’m going to see the musical today- going in with the attitude that the only thing that will be like the book will be the characters names, I’m going to view it as a totally different story. It’s taken me 20yrs to come around to viewing the musical. I’m huge fan of the book.