How To Convert 3 Wire to 4 Oven/Electric Range Electrical Outlet
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- Опубліковано 13 лип 2024
- Do you know how to convert a 3 Wire Oven/Electric Range Electrical Outlet to 4 Wire? In this DIY electrical wiring tips video, we show you how to take an older 3-wire electrical 240 V stove outlet for your kitchen stove/oven/electric range and convert it to a modern National Electrical Code approved 4-wire outlet.
Tools & Parts used in this stove outlet 3 wire to four wire video:
Fluke 87-V Digital Multimeter: amzn.to/2LK8etM
Leviton 279 50 Amp, 125/250 Volt: amzn.to/2Rs56YH
Coleman 4-Foot 50-Amp 4-Wire Range Power Cord: amzn.to/2Aq2qAV
Voltage Detector, Fluke VoltAlert: amzn.to/2THggao
Raised Square Range Outlet Cover 4-Inch: amzn.to/2SBiszi
All new construction homes are required by building codes to have 4 wire stove outlets. Every 220 volt outlet must be 4 wire. Every time I come across an older three wire oven outlet, I convert that old 3 wire oven outlet to 4 wire to the more modern National Electrical Code standards for oven wiring. So, if you are installing an oven and wondered how to connect stove wires in the stove outlet, you have come to the right place.
How to wire oven
Remember when you buy and install a new electronic oven, you need to check the existing stove outlet and see if it is a four wire outlet or a three wire outlet, and you have to buy the correct power cord for your new oven. Here is where we show you how to wire ovens for your newly installed 4 wire stove outlet. You will know exactly how to connect oven wiring in this DIY electrical tips video.
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For kitchen wiring, since Jan. 1, 1996, the National Electrical Code forbids 220 volt outlets, which are 3-wire Oven electrical outlets in all new construction, so you have to use the newer 4-wire outlets and remove the ground strap inside your new oven when you hook it up to four wire electrical outlets. Oven outlet wiring is fairly simple, there's only 4 wires.
DIY Electrical, How to connect a stove
Our DIY electrical kitchen wiring tips here will help you wire your stove outlet box, and you'll do it yourself, and we show you here how to modify kitchen wiring to convert three wire to four wire. You'll learn exactly how to wire a stove outlet.
It is always a good idea to upgrade your older 3-wire outlet when you buy new appliances and are installing an oven. If you are remodeling your home and doing DIY electrical work, it is likely the building inspector will require you to upgrade your 3 wire outlet to bring it into compliance with the modern NEC codes as a four wire stove outlet anyway. You always want to convert that 3 wire oven connection to a 4 wire oven connection.
How to convert three prong outlet to 4 wire stove outlets.
Also, if your stove outlet box is metal, make sure to bond your electrical outlet box to the system earth ground by taking the ground wire and wrapping it around a green grounding screw attached to the outlet box. We often discover that previous electricians have failed to perform this required task.
Congratulations, now with our electrical tips you now how to convert 3 wire to 4 wire electrical outlets when installing an oven in your kitchen remodel. Now you are ready with your knowledge on how to wire ovens and electric ranges.
If you like our electrical tips here for converting 3 wire to 4 wire, please click on the thumbs up icon to show us you liked it, and don't forget to subscribe and click the bell icon after you subscribe, which alerts you to any other future videos when we upload them so you don't miss another DIY video. Any chance you get to help someone convert from 3 wire to four wire you should help them.
We hope this DIY electrical wiring video explained all our questions about Oven plugs, and oven plug wiring to the oven outlet. - Навчання та стиль
Tools & Parts used in this stove outlet 3 wire to four wire video:
Leviton 279 50 Amp, 125/250 Volt: amzn.to/2Rs56YH
Coleman 4-Foot 50-Amp 4-Wire Range Power Cord: amzn.to/2Aq2qAV
Fluke 87-V Digital Multimeter: amzn.to/2LK8etM
Voltage Detector, Fluke VoltAlert: amzn.to/2THggao
Raised Square Range Outlet Cover 4-Inch: amzn.to/2SBiszi
For those of us who are really nervous about dealing with electricity this was nice and slow, calm and well organized. Appreciate it.
Jeff,
I signed on to UA-cam for the very first time in years just to let you know how much I appreciated this video with your insights and the "don't be that person" admonition. Thank you.
Glad I could help! thanks fops watching Matthew!
This was a huge help for my husband, when we got a new stove. I would rate it a hundred
Jen Hansen Thanks I'm glad you were able to enjoy success with your conversion.
You're video is great. I found it to be very thorough and your explanations are great! That's important because you want to assume that we all have no understanding. There are many videos out there but not all are created equal. Not everyone understands 'teaching.' Again, thank-you. I appreciate experienced and knowledgeable tradesmen taking the time to create these videos.
Thanks, I'm glad you liked it!
@@jeffostroffI’m enjoying watching it. You’re a good teacher and make for less nervousness for those of hs who aren’t familiar with this.
Thank you so much! I can always tell when my husband needs help figuring out something, so without him asking I found this video for him. It saved my day! 👍🙂
Jeff...Great instruction with a continuous feed of very helpful "electrical best practices" nuances. Sound is excellent as are the just-right video shots. Safety highlights are well done and on the safe side. I have recently successfully installed a 4-wire receptacle for Tesla charging and as well, a whole house surge protector. This video rounds out my electrical needs (to install a newer stove). Thanks for the confidence-building instruction. Keep up the great work!
Thanks! That must be a lot of work getting it ready for tesla, knowing where to put the socket, is it close enough, to high, too low, lot of thinking first I bet.
New range delivered and your video walked me thru what I wanted to know !
Awesome glad to help out
I’m always glad to check my knowledge before doing my electrical. I was not up on the two ground wires I’m glad I checked for I knew the ground wires, but I never knew the stove needed the jumped ground on the stove removed! Thanks.
Glad to help
Many thanks! Your instruction was methodical and clear and attention to safety saved me from getting shocked!
Glad to help Matthew, and thanks for watching!
Most inspectors are worthless! Thank you for you this video, very helpful!
Thanks for watching, glad to help out
The original installation was done correctly. The referred to bezel is in fact a two gang plaster ring and is the correct component part to use in this situation for a flush mounted receptacle as long as a proper two hand finish wall plate is installed. The cover he used in the video is for a surface mount situation, such as on an unfinished basement wall. Also he refers to the strap on the range between the neutral and chassis ground as a short it is in fact called a bonding jumper.
The original installation was code compliant and that is why it passed inspection.
The person producing this video should have his work inspected.
Inspectors are not worthless, they are a second set of eyes on the installation to make sure your getting a safe and reliable install and that contractors are legitimate.
Thanks
Great job with the video, very thorough, and safe. Thanks.
Thanks for watching!
Very informative video instructions. God bless your heart for sharing this to us.
Awesome Robert, glad you liked it! Thanks for watching our video.
I liked the amount of detail that was put into making this video. If I am going to do something I want do it the right way.
Thanks, I'm glad you liked it!
A must. When using the tester to test the receptacle if there is power on not. You should test the tester make sure it works after doing so because the tester might be not working.
My Fluke tester has an LED that turns on at power up indicating it works.
@@eloquent-nuance The LED is on the tester and its sole purpose is to tell you if there is votage in the wires. It is not there to test any kind of quality of the wires.
Speaking as an older electrician: Slot-Head screws were all they used in the old days, whether the device was cheap or expensive. Old switches and receptacles from the mid 1970s and prior can be pretty frustrating with their small 6-32 slot-heads, because it takes a lot of turning to get `em out and sometimes they're even rusted into the metal boxes.
Great information, thank you!
Nicely explained. Just in time to help my daughter out with remodeling her kitchen.
Awesome I hope it works out great for her!
THANK YOU FOR THIS GREAT VIDEO. VERY INFORMATIVE AND EASY TO UNDERSTAND.AND THANK YOU FOR THE SAFETY TIPS. VERY IMPORTANT . THANKS AGAIN
You are welcome!
Great video, you are a great teacher.
Thanks Nicolas, glad you liked our video!
Great video. Very clear instructions. Thanks.
You are welcome!
This is exactly what I was looking for
Glad to help
Very clear instructions. Thanks.
Glad it was helpful!
I appreciate your through explanation.
Thank you sir,appreciate your work and tutorial.
You are welcome
very good video thank you, I will work on my house
So great video thank you so much help me a lot God bless you
Glad to help out, thanks for watching Olga!
Excellent video. One note. They may have used that metal bezel and had it passed because cover plates in plastic and metal can be used that attach directly to the plug bracket. Note the smaller inset holes on the plug.
well done. top notch pro tips.
Thanks, I'm glad you liked it!
Nice video. You explained very well.
Thank you I'm glad you liked our video. Don't forget to come back to subscribe to the channel and watch many more useful DIY videos.
Great video thanks.
Thanks CP, glad you liked it.
Very Informative Posting...
great Video..
Thanks so much, glad you liked it!
Very nice video ,thanks.
Thanks, Abraham, I'm glad you liked our video.
Obrigado Amigo funcionou bem de mais Valew
Very very good...! Thanks....!
Glad you liked it! Thanks for watching Albert
Great video and explanation. Bought a place built in 1980 and I’m finding some of these problems. I replaced the dryer cord and the dryer outlet with the correct amperage but there’s no ground so I am going to have to run a ground from the panel up to the attic and through the walls so I can ground the dryer. These types of things where the NEC has changed the law is impossible to see you when you’re looking to buy a place
Edward, it's not totally impossible. When your home inspector looks at the electrical panel and takes the big cover off it exposing all the wires inside the panel, they should be able to instantly tell if there are 3 or 4 wires going out to the dryer. They should be able to see if there is a ground wire leaving the ground bus bar on the panel, and is it going out the same port hole that the other 2 or 3 dryer wires are going.
Jeff in a perfect world it would have four wires but the world isn't perfect. inside the appliance there is a bonding strap for the neutral and equipment ground in case you don't have the 4th wire. That is perfectly legal and much easier than running a new conductor to who knows where and much cheaper for the customer. it might be worth mentioning to those who can not easily install a dedicated equipment ground.
Thanks
I still prefer to run the ground, it's really not that bad.
So, in this case you would just buy a 3 prong chord? Or, just leave the negative terminal of the new outlet empty?
For those of us with TRUE 3 wire (which this video isnt) Ive read in our stove manual that you must hardwire the ground to the white.... the appliance is grounded through the neutral. Please update this video to be more clear on this.
Thank you so much. I've done a lot of stupid things over the years, many of them electrical. You can bet I'll examine to 220 outlets and cords that hook up the welder and plasma cutter in my shop.
Glad to help!
Nice video u explained very helpful
Thank you for those kind words I'm glad you enjoyed the video.
Awesome video very well done covered everything I needed to know Thank you
Thanks I'm glad you liked , glad we could help out
I realize that this video dates to 2017. The screw heads in this video also allow the use of a Robertson (square drive) screwdriver which is more common today. As a DIYer I don't own a torque screwdriver which is quite expensive, but new electrical codes call for certain torque requirements which are much easier to meet with a square drive screwdriver. The Philips and flat drivers usually cam out before you meet these requirements.
Good video ..going to do it like you showed..thanks
Thanks, I'm glad you liked it!
I have another question Jeff I live on 9 acre piece of property the main house has its own 200 amp service. There is a large barn, we call it #1 and is fed from a 50 amp breaker from the main house and only supplies lighting which I am converting to all LED LIGHTS. A smaller barn, we call it #2, was used for wood storage and only has lighting in it as well. Currently it has a an old disconnect switch, which I will be replacing. It will have its own breaker as well as GFCI protection. Will both barn panel be sub panels and not bonded in the boxes.
I'm about to add few 240v outdoor connections, but I also need possibility to extract 120v out of it in case I need it in future. Can we say that good rule of thumb is always run 3 wire romex + ground wire, even if neutral in not going to be used?
Yes that makes the most sense. This way anybody in the future of won't have to run a neutral wire when they need one. There are a few times where I have had to run a separate ground wire to a dryer outlet or stills outlet and I wish the original electrician had run all the wires.
2:07 I ALWAYS check my volt meter/tester on known live wires. The built-in test only tells you that the built-in test works and your batteries are good. Take a few extra seconds by checking a live outlet.
I would never rely solely on a field or no contact tester. They rely on sensing current through capacitive coupling. If the electric field is suppressed it may not work. The Fluke meter you used later is much more reliable. Also, not sure if I heard it correctly but you said that the receptacle’s ground is bonded to the metal plate which is correct but you said that if you screw the new metal receptacle onto the old metal box in the wall it would complete the circuit which it will not unless there is a ground wire bonded to the metal box coming from the panel. Otherwise it’s the same as the shorting bar inside the oven. Now if you had metal conduit coming into the box from the panel that would work but very few residential connections are made with rigid or flexible MX conduit. However, maybe I heard it wrong. Otherwise a very good video from the past.
GOOD VIDEO...
Glad you enjoyed it
thanks!
Glad to help out
Thank you for an excellent video. when stepping up the breaker from 40 to a 50 amp would you upgrade the wire from 8 gauge to a 6? Total wire length is about 60 feet... Thanks
Yes, you have to upgrade the wire to 6 gauge per National Electric Code. 8-3 wire is only capable of handling 40 amps.
Jeff, the wires are short by code. An electrician told me the NEC code states a max of 2 inches for ranges because the wire does not bend in the box like 14 or even 12 guage. According to that, you should encounter short wires in every box. Just saying.
I'd like to see the exact code. We usually install a Deep box to accommodate this scenario.
Good video. Thanks. I especially like that you get the camera closely focused to what you are talking about. That helps, at least me, enourmously.
Is it safe to make a 3-wire, 50A extension cord to plug my welder onto the four-wire dryer outlet? (don't want to cause a fire).
A lot of pepped do this with their generators, plug them into the dryer. IT is safe as longs as the other end of the cable does not have male prongs as they will get energized with 220
we test the tester before and after use.
great video, what do you do about a stove wire with a red wire black wire and a bunch of bare copper wires twisted together? how do you convert that to 4 wire?
We just did this a few weeks back, and have a video for it. You basically need to run a new 6-3 oven cable from the breaker panel to your stove to really convert to 4-wire. We cover this in our other video "How to Install 6/3 Oven Power Cable, 4-Wire Outlet to Electrical Panel" here: ua-cam.com/video/WC6RQ6Oc888/v-deo.html This can be very intense for some people so if after seeing the video you don't feel comfortable, then call a licensed electrician in to do the work.
Sometimes you gotta protect idiots from themselves !! So true! Idiots wouldn’t be around if a perfectionist did do the thinking for them !!!
I bought a new stove and have this project coming up. But it seems to me that what you have done here is the easy part so to speak. I have to replace the 3 wire cable with a 4 wire from the power panel to the socket.
The silly thing is designed electric stoves so that they REQUIRE a neutral. With led lighting etc., all the control and lighting can be run off the 240 volts. The over lighting might require some hard thinking but that's OK. The existing 3 wire circuit would have to have a 2 wire plus ground 50A outlet. The ground/neutral is already ok.
I learned a lot, although I still wouldn't do this myself, I would rather have someone more knowledgeable to do the work for me.
Yes, and still great to have the knowledge to check their work
EXTREMELY HELPFUL VIDEO. Thank you. Jeff I am in process of doing this project. Found out that original range wiring is aluminum so will be running a new line to the 50amp breaker. Ive been told that 8ga wire is required for this application. A prior person told me 10ga would suffice. My thought is 8/3.w grnd. Run out from box breaker to outlet would be around 40'. What is your 'opinion'?
Disregard Jeff. Just found your response to earlier posters question. 6/3 w ground required. Any other suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.
@@davidthompson1529 Yes you need 6 gauge wire for 50 Amps.
Article 210.19 (c) of the NEC states that for ranges of 8¾ kW or more the minimum branch circuit rating shall be 40 amperes. If you look closely at the installation instruction manual for a range virtually all of them will specify min. 40 amp. The nameplate for a typical range will be 12kW, and this rating is with the oven and all burners operating simultaneously, which very seldom happens, for this reason the Code, being the bare minimum for safety, allows this de-rating, so a 8/3 w/G NM can be used However me personally I like to build above minimum code and pull a 6/3 w/G good for 50 amp because some higher end double oven ranges will specify 50, and there's a real possibility that sometime down the road the family living in that home may grow and decide the need to replace the single oven range with a double oven and the cost difference between 8 and 6 gauge wiring during the rough-in is not that much. So if you're building a house and plan on using an electric range, or renovating and pulling a new range circuit, just go with 6 gauge and 50 amp.
So ,I just removed a cook top from a countertop and cut the cabinetry out to allow a 30 in free standing oven ! It was a steel shielded conduit directly connected! I have 2 hot wires and red and a black and a bare ground . Am I going to be able to connect a new range without a neutral wire? This house was built 1950 ish, I hope I don't have to run a new #6 Copper Wire to breaker box . Big added expense if I don't have to! There is a junction box in garage ceiling below ,might be neutral wire from load center in there ,I hope!
Great video I watched it from end to end, I like when you call them out when it’s done wrong, I am getting a new stove on Thursday, I have wires coming out from the wall,No box, I wanna mount one of those external outlets, it’s a three wire in one sleeve, and a separate ground, they’re bringing a four prong but they always carry three prongs with them, now that I seen your video I’d like to go with the four prong, I would assume do exactly what you showed, i’ve been an auto mechanic for over 40 years, but never fond of electric, if you could reply I would appreciate it
Hopefully, you have three wires and ground in your outlet. If you don't they can wire a separate ground back to the panel that's what I have done in a couple of cases to make sure that I have the four wires
I really do appreciate the reply, the stove is hardwired right out from the wall there’s three wires in the sleeve and a separate ground so I do feel pretty comfortable, and a very detailed video from you, thanks again
The official Halo channel liked this video...
jeff - i have the opposite problem - the older range came with a 3 prong plug in but the wall outlet is the proper 4 prong - can i use the old one or do i have to buy a new wire?
David you need to upgrade the cable on the back of the appliance, and you also have to remove the small copper strip that shorts the common tot he ground on your machine.
Hey Jeff, 3rd video I’m looking at of yours! Ok. My old stove was actually hot wired, it had no plug in outlet. My electrician changed it for me but put in a 110 outlet🤔 he’s returning to correct it. I’ve purchased a new range. Are you telling me I have to use a 4 prong plug or can I go with a 3 prong? What determines it? Must get to Home Depot to purchase it.
All NEW construction after 1996 requires 4 prong outlets. I have upgraded at least 4 properties in the last few years by running the extra ground wire to make this happen. If your house is existing, inspectors usually don't make you convert to 4 prong unless you open up the wall, then they make you do it.
@@jeffostroff what do you mean "open up the wall"
Keep it up
thanks Shaw!
Today installed one new heat top range and there was only three wire but the heat top had 4 I was confused and the heattop range wasn't heating, I will go back tomorrow and do the wiring to the right as you thought me, thank you very much
I have to guess that the original electrician left fairly short #6s reaching out from the box to make it much easier to fold the wires into the box behind the outlet. For sure it's always best to leave some extra, I don't know what the nec is on this. But for sure folding three #6s and a ground is not a feat for us mortals.
Our house was built in 1980 and uses the older 3 wire 240v outlets for the range. I want to replace them with the newer 4 wire outlets. Luckily, they ran 8ga wire with a ground to the box. Unluckily, they cut the ground very short and screwed it into the outlet box. Would it be against code / unsafe to run a ground from the same screw on the outlet box to the new outlet? Or, does the run have to be continuous?
Thanks!
They run grounds like that all of the time they connect the grounds inside the box and then it would continue outside the box down the road to the next box. And houses that have the older conduit instead of the more modern romex cable wiring, the conduit actually acts as your ground because all of the metal boxes are connected together and then grounded out the control panel.
I know this is an old video and all but the house I am thinking about living in for a short time needed a stove and it has the old plug and the new plug is the new one. I have the box with the new stove and I want to change the box. The cord is black and comes thru the floor with the box. I want to change it so would I cut the black cord and put it on the new box???
You can buy another cord and change it to match the box. IF you got o 4 prong box, you have to remove the small copper strip inside the back of the stove tying the ground to the white wire.
I'm working on a remodel now that the home owner asked me to install thier new wall oven that's 4 wire. The contractor prior us moved the outlet but it's only 3 wires 2 hots and a ground. No nuetral wire.
That's common in older houses. In a nutshell, when you have 240 volts, each leg is 120v,, and they don't need a neutral to complete the circuit, they only need ground. Now in modern days, they want the neutral, because many ovens have digital displays and clocks that run off 120V, so they need to a neutral to complete the circuit. So what we just did in a kitchen was run all brand new 6-3 cable for the stove, where you make a non stop home run from the electric panel, up through the ceiling, back down the wall where the stove is. You buy the 6-3 cable at Home depot, about $150 for the 25 foot length they cut off the big reels for us. The contractor was required by code if he moved the outlet, to update it up to 4 wire. I am working on a video for this that will release saturday morning.
Trying to understand. Originally the receptical was a 3 wire 220v. The 3 wires included 2 hots, one red and black and a ground that was white. Is the white wire just called a ground but is actually a nuetral? Did you switch it from the ground to the nuetral bar at the panel? This is the 3rd video ive seen someone do exactly this and im so confused because ive been lead to believe the white is a ground?
Thank you for any reply
White is always called neutral. In 3 wire systems, it is the ground for the chassis. Now back at the electrical panel in most cases, white neutral bus and the ground bus are both jumared together so they are one an d the same. In 4 conductor systems, they don't want a short circuit current coming back on the neutral, so they make the earth ground connected to the 4th conductor, now if the appliance shorts the power to chassis, it gets routed to ground instead of back tot he panel.
Hi Jeff, Love your Show, I just realized that I have the old 2 wire system like this house. there is no way to go back. My Oevn is new and has a red wire, what should I do with red wire
If you have the old 2 wire, I bet you have both are 240 maybe? IF so red goes to one, black goes to the other, does not matter which. But you might have to do some testing to see what you really have. I would have a new panel put in your house, and have them run power where you can, and snake a 6-3 line from the new panel to your stove and make it a 4-wire.
Does the ground have to be directly from panel. Or can you tap off any existing ground
I prefer to run it off the panel, but f you have conduit, you can get the ground from the conduit.
EXCELLANT VIDEO AND VERY HELPFUL - I GIVE IT A FIVE STAR RATING
This video will solve all of my problems. I used to have a spa on the back side of my garage in which my friend who is an electrician ran about 75 feet of 4 wire 8 gauge wire from my fuse box along the ceiling in the basement then into my garage and out to the back side of the garage to the spa. There is a 60 amp 220V breaker at the fuse box. I know longer am using the spa but I am putting a 7500 Watt ceiling garage heater in the garage supposedly hard wired for 3 wire. After watching your video I should be able to pull my existing 4 wire 8 gauge wiring back into the garage, install the plug-in, and change the wiring on the brand new Comfort Zone remote controlled 7500 Watt heater to a 4 wire corded set up to use the newly installed plug-in outlet. My only question is can I just leave the existing 220V 60 amp breaker inside the circuit breaker box that I still had for the spa or is that to high a amperage number for the heater?
I do believe the Comfort Zone heater also has some type of overload protection. If I can get by with leaving the 60 Amp breaker that I used for the spa then that would be great because it would be all set to go. I do believe that they say to use a 40 amp breaker.
Thanks for all your help
Larry
Larry you probably could put a lower amp breaker on the line. Just go with whatever amperage rating breaker the heater manufacturer says to use.
Sounds great thanks
Hey Jeff
Just got my Comfort Zone CZ230ER heater which has 3 wire set up but have no clue how and where to incorporate my 4 wire set up into this. I actually want to run an plug in set up from the heater into my 4 wire 8 gauge 220v existing wiring. I guess it can be done, I just have to figure it out.
Thanks for all the info.
Never mind, I just figured it out. Do you think its ok for me to leave the 60 amp breaker or would you personally lower it to the recommended 40 amp? Thanks again for all your help.
Correct me if I'm wrong but red and black. It's positive negative but when you're dealing with this type of things. Red and black are boat hot. Why does neutrue? They encumbered the whole green thing to ground, etc. Etc. So it doesn't matter because most chords don't come. Color coordinated so you could put red on right? Black on left, it's the same thing, right? I don't know but correct me if i'm wrong
Jeff, I question the plate you installed at the end. Yes the original 2 gang plate was wrong, but so is a surface mount plate. What is supposed to be used is a 1 gang mud ring and a surface cover plate.
You're going to have to show me where in what code it says you can't do it the method we used, because here in our area that's how we see it all the time.
jeffostroff As you are or should be aware, not all things are in the NEC directly. Can we agree that the NEC does require all products used be listed? Can we also agree that NEC requires that all products be used per manufacturers instructions? These instructions will match what the listing agency has tested and listed the products for.
Please see page A23 of the attached link for Hubbell Raco catalog.
hubbellcdn.com/ohwassets/HCI/RACO/Catalog/steelboxescoversaccessories.pdf
It shows a Raco 813C surface raised cover. It also says,
APPLICATIONS
RACO surface covers are used to support switches or receptacles in areas where the box is surface mounted or positioned in exposed work applications.
What you should be using is a ring from A20 with the correct amount of raise to be flush with the drywall face and a faceplate.
Hopefully you will agree with my comment.
Respectfully, Kevin
They are creating a redundant ground in the breaker box for added safety. Is this correct? The ground and the neutral(white) are connected together in the breaker box.
Great video, appreciate your expertise.
I have never known the reason why they connect them there in the panel.
@@jeffostroff Trying to make sense of it. Thanks
@@jeffostroff Hey Jeff, thought you might find this interesting on the Ground and Neutral tied together in the Sub panel. I think if you've ever seen green electrolysis/corrosion on a copper tube, this would help explain it to some degree.
ua-cam.com/video/5iEuaAYs5x4/v-deo.html
I must have missed it - where did you get the ground from? Was it already in the box, but not connected? I have a 3 wire 240V dryer outlet 30A, that only has two hots and neutral. I'd like to install a 4 wire with ground. I'd love t o do it without having to run a new 4 wire wiring from the breaker box, as it is on an outside wall and very difficult to get the wire changed out.
There is a 120V grounded outlet about 3 feet away on the wall. Is it up to code to just run a ground wire over to that outlet to get a ground for the 240V outlet?
Failing that, is it code to add just a ground wire going back to the breaker box?
Ground was already in the box. I'll check with my electrician friend about if you can grab ground from a nearby outlet.
@@jeffostroff what did you find out about grabbing ground from a nearby circuit?
We do not have a ground wire. Is it dangerous to replace the outlet without a ground wire? My husband says we did not have the ground before, why do we need one now?
what you had before was likely 2 hot wires at 120 volts each, and a neutral wire, which is typically tied to ground inside your electrical panel, and also tied to the chassis of the appliance. Since the 1990s, newer code wants a separate ground wire connected to earth ground, which the chassis of appliances needs to be connected to. After 1996, National Electric Code no longer wants you to connect the chassis of the appliances to the neutral line, which is what was happening before. If for some reason, current ends up on the white neutral line, which is connected to ground, you could in theory energize the metal chassis of your appliance. So adding this 4th wire which is strictly connected to earth ground, and NOT to the neutral wire anymore, you eliminate this risk of ever energizing the metal chassis of the appliance, hence no shock. Older houses are grandfathered in, all new construction after 1996 must have it.
If you remodel your kitchen and open walls, your local building inspectors will require you to bring everything up to code.
Hi Jeff, I watched your video for change 3 prongs range stove to 4 prongs outlet. I would like to call electrician to do what you did made a change. I purchased a range oven requires 4 prongs but I currently have 3 prongs outlet. I live in Colorado Springs, Colorado. Could you recommend a electrician? Because I had a bad experience from electrician I called a few days ago. He didn't change to 4 prongs. I desperately need a who knows how to do it. Thank you for all your help
I don't know any electricians out there your best bet is to try looking on next door app and ask neighbors who might have companies they can recommend
I've only got a white wire (neutral, I think), a bare wire (ground), and 2 black wires (I assume both are hot). So, the neutral wire goes to the middle, and the 2 hot wires go to either side, and the ground goes to the top?
Yes, the ground wire would go to that arch shaped plug hole on the outlet receptacle.
If you start with a new box instead of reusing the existing box, what type of box is required by code for the connector?
We prefer the square steel 4" box, and we also like to add the extension to the front of the box, because most oven outlets are deep, and this accommodates them. We show this in this other video we did on rewiring the oven 6-3 cable: ua-cam.com/video/WC6RQ6Oc888/v-deo.html
@@jeffostroff thank you!
The plastic oven range box I bought does not seem to allow it to be mounted on the side. If that is the case,should the ground of the outlet be facing UP or down? Which is more likely to work best?
You should be bale to mount it one the side, but I would recommend against using plastic, you really need to be using a metal box for the oven.
@@jeffostroff why? This box seem to be designed for range since it has a side clamp and says the word"range"
If I'm going to open the wall more I can get heavier duty box with the side clamp.
I tried every configuration there's no way I can change the mounting.
So which will work better?
It's not like this thing gets plugged and unplugged allot but I'm opening to the metal box reasoning. Is it just because you have to put a lot of pressure to get the wires in?
@@Thatsmessedupman As long as you researched it and the outlet is approved, no problem. I just prefer big beefy metal boxes.
Can you leave the existing 3 conductor cable and just run an additional separate ground wire?
yes that can be done
This whole process would've been much much harder if there was no ground wire running to this old outlet. The old receptacle was NEMA 10-50, which is kind of dangerous because it lacks ground and uses neutral as ground. So, when most of 10-50s are pulled out in most homes, you won't find a ground wire conveniently located nearby. This video is essentially on how to wire a NEMA 14-50 receptacle, not how to replace 10-50 with 14-50.
We have another video where we actually replace the whole box and outlet, and run new 6-3 cable from electric panel to the range.
@@jeffostroff I'd like to check it out. Could you please give me a link to that video? Thanks!
Where is it?
@@Independent-xl3st ua-cam.com/video/WC6RQ6Oc888/v-deo.html
@@miamijason305 ua-cam.com/video/WC6RQ6Oc888/v-deo.html
Is the ground other than the white sometimes green
Yes, the ground wire is green typically, or bare copper.
There is exception if u can use ur fmc and metal box as equipment grounding conductor. If u go to article 250.118 (5) there is exception fmc should not be longer than 6 feet and condicut size not be greater than 1^1/4 .
You just need to be real certain that box is bonded to the system ground.
With this stated, a 3-pole, non-grounded connection is intended to have the majority of the current through the hot legs of the split-phase connection. Both have a potential of 120 volts AC to ground. Across the legs, the potential is 240 volts AC and the majority of the current is through these legs. But a small percentage is used from one leg to the neutral. This can lead to a problem IF the neutral is broken and the device is also grounded through the neutral as there WILL be 120 volts potential in the frame. Also, if the neutral conductor is the same gauge as the legs and there is a fault, that conductor could become over-loaded since both legs could short to it. As since there is no circuit breaker on a neutral, there is potential for fire. Consider 240 VAC heater elements are switched by one leg only. If there is a short from the heater element to ground, the leg that is unswitched will continue to draw, even when the machine is off! There are no safety controls for this on older appliances
Well spoken
I'm not sure if I understand this correctly, I have the 3 pronged wall socket (house was built in 81) for my range, I have a newer range which has the neutral included. Can I just short the ground and range together? Another problem I have came by is my range seems to not be heating stove top coils to potential, food is cooking slow etc, is this due to me wiring it with my old 3 prong power cord from the previous range? Hope you reply and help me out, thanks.
With older outlets, the black and red are 120v each, and the white is neutral. When you wire the cord to the back of the range, it goes red to red, black to black, and white to white wires on the terminal block. The range then has the white shorted to ground (chassis) with that metal copper strip you see on the range terminal connection block on the back of the range. If you upgrade to 4 wire and you run a ground from the electrical panel to the range outlet box, and put in a 4 wire outlet, then you would buy a 4 wire plug, wire them up on the back of the range and now the extra new wire, the green one, goes to the green wire on the range terminal block, and you MUST remove that copper trip, because with 4-wire, you are not allowed to short neutral to ground.
@@jeffostroff then I did understand correctly, thanks for your response and clear instructions men like you who give resources and knowledge are Godsents! Thanks again my range works well!
Did you add that Brown wire or was it there already? Because my wall wire area only has 3 wires
Brown wire? I assume you mean the copper wire, which is the ground. That wire was already put there by the builder in 1988 when it was built. Some people don't have this ground wire, they have Red, Black White, because the 4th wire was not required until 1996. What I have done in 3 projects so far is I run a separate ground wire, from the electrical panel to this outlet, and bond it to the outlet. The wire can be copper or it can be stranded with the green insulation. Some electricians prefer the green stranded wire as it is easier to snake around in the walls.
@@jeffostroff that must be a pain to snake to the panel. Thanks for the info great video!!
@@jeffostroff . where does the ground wire connect to ? electric box ?
all i have is a cable that runs from the BOX up through the floor
@@mvs784 The ground wire goes to the electric panel to the ground bus bar. Then this end that we see at the outlet connects to the new 4 prong outlet. Noe because the manufacturer of the new outlet has the ground screw electrically connected to the metal face plate, and we have our main metal box face plate connected tot he front of that new outlet face plate with the 4 screws, this means the entire metal outlet box will be bonded to the system ground as soon was we bolt the large face plate onto the front of the outlet box. If you want to confirm it is all grounded, get a digital multimeter and set to ohms, and measure from the outlet front plate to the ground bus bar at the electric panel, and you should see 0 ohms. You can also have the ground wire come into the metal outlet box for your oven, and wrap it around a green ground screw that is screwed into the inside of your outlet box, and have a green pigtail wire then continue on from the chassis of the outlet box to the outlet itself.
my 3 wire cable coming out of the wall doesnt have a ground wire. How would i adapt to a 4-pronged oven?
In the past I have run a ground line from the electrical panel, across the attic and down the wall to the outlet receptacle.
what size wire is that on the outlet ?. does it matter if the wire is stranded or solid ??
Excellent question! I can't remember, but it looks to me like a 10 gauge solid wire. That solid 10 gauge wire is what they typically allow on 50 Amp electric range outlets, and usually what I have seen the builders install when there is a ground in the electric range outlet box. . And yes, the National Electric Code allows you to use stranded or solid wire for the ground, both 10 gauge. A couple of years ago I ran the stranded green ground wire from the fuse panel, up the attic, down inside the kitchen wall by the oven. Many electricians will tell you they prefer to run stranded over solid because it pulls easier, not as stiff. Now, check this out from my 2017 version of the National Electric Code book, page 194, Section 250.62 confirms you can use stranded wire for a ground run:
Grounding Electrode Conductor Material. The grounding electrode conductor shall be of copper, aluminum, or copper-clad aluminum. The material selected shall be resistant to any corrosive condition existing at the installation or shall be protected against corrosion. The conductor shall be solid or stranded, insulated, covered, or bare.
jeffostroff 10 gauge is rated for 30 amps, shouldn’t it be a 8 awg wire since it’s rated for 40 which is most likely the over current protection for the range?
@@Nick-bh1fy Good question. That 8 AWG is for the red and black conductors, and the white neutral conductor. They typically make the ground smaller than the others, usually 10 gauge. We bought some 50 AMP-rated 6/3 cable at Home Depot to convert a 3 prong electric range outlet to a 4 prong outlet. That 6/3 cable had the 3 conductors at 6 gauge, and the ground wire was at 10 gauge. I guess their thinking is that if a hot wire shorts to ground, the circuit breaker will blow before any appreciable amount of current has a chance to flow through ground. But a stove in operation might be drawing up to 50 amps so the other conductors need to be thicker. Same with the clothes dryers.
jeffostroff ah ok that’s what I was thinking. Ik for more higher ampacity circuits they use a lower gauge ground wire since current maybe only travels for a split second in the case of a fault before tripping a breaker. Thanks for the clarity!
Please sir you can state the types of cable
So our stove just went out. I pulled the stove out and it seems they hard wired the range into the wires in the box. The wire that are in the wall is aluminum and two blacks wires. What do I need to get ? 3 prong?
I got you covered on this one we had this exact same case a few months ago in 1 of my flip condos. I didn't like the fact that there wasn't a white common in the stove outlet box and that they had aluminum for the ground wire and guess what the aluminum wasn't even connected inside the fuse panel it was just sitting floating loose not tied to anything in the panel. So what a complete disaster that was while we had the walls open week we just ran brand new 6-3 oven cable from home depot. See our video here: ua-cam.com/video/WC6RQ6Oc888/v-deo.html
Hopefully you are able to do the same thing it's really the only option you have if you want for conductors to bring it up to the latest electrical code.
jeffostroff thank you for the quick reply!
jeffostroff so is the three prong outlet doesn’t have ground wire from what Home Depot told me. Is the aluminum the neutral wire and other two black wires supposed to be black and red
@@mopar392ta3 I can't even make a guess as to what yours would be without seeing your electrical panel in person. With ours the aluminum wires wasn't even connected at all so it was nothing. Very shocking. That is why we got brand new 6-3 cable and just ran it from the breaker Box all the way over to the stove outlet so now we have a 4 prong outlet all up to modern code we took all guesswork out of the equation as to what was what we made it all brand new
jeffostroff I figured it out. The stove was connected to it with neutral and ground. Thanks for the help bro appreciate it a lot
I believe I followed all the instructions for that procedure correctly. When I finish the job turn on the breaker and turn the range on the display and everything all the indicator lights clock and all come on and work correctly, however, none of the elements in the oven or on the surface will get hot. Any insight on the situation?
So looks like you're getting 120v correctly to power the digital circuits but nothing coming into the stove on the other 120V leg to generate the 240 needed for the coils, so my guess is the other hot wire is not connected all the way, or has no voltage on it. Do you have a voltmeter you can put on the back of the stove where the 4 wires connect, and make sure that both black wires have the 120 VAC? Trace it to the socket in the wall, make sure both X and Y contacts on that socket are showing 120 v each to ground, or 240 volts across X and Y.
Hello. So I'm replacing my really old oven 1995 ish with an old oven 2007 ish. my house was first occupied in 1996 so it was built the year before the 4-wire mandate. So I'm grandfathered in. The replacement oven has both 3 and 4 wire instructions in it. So naturally I have to do 3-wire installation. My question is, can i tap into the junction box and using 12/2 Romex, wire up to the replacement microwave, which needs a standard 15 amp service 120v ? I tested the wiring voltage on all 3 wires and it goes as such. Touching black & Red i get 249v, touching white and red I get 124.5v and touching white and black I get 124.5v. The original stove/microwave unit were both powered by this 3-wire 40amp circuit where the microwave is 120v and oven 240v. It was one big combo unit into this custom home. I realize that new codes call for 4-wire, but my device supports 3-wire so I'm going to forge ahead in that manner. But i would hate to have to run a new circuit to my replacement microwave. It takes a standard grounded plug. I'm guessing my 3-wire is Hot, Hot, Neutral, which means there really isn't a grounding wire for the Microwave. Is there any other way I could ground that Microwave? Like should I run a wire from the ground of the outlet outside to a grounded post stuck into the ground or something. Any suggestions?
That is against code and fire risk to do what you propose. Code says microwave and stove must be on their own separate solo circuits, nothing else on them. IF your house did not have an outlet for microwave, and I encounter this all the time, you can run Romex home run back to the panel and put in another circuit switch.
@@jeffostroff understood and thanks very much!!. Yea the previous microwave/oven was one big sheet-metal encased unit where the 3-wire 40amp circuit powered both. QUESTION: So, do you think it would be ok to use the existing 3-wire for just the oven? Be pretty costly to run both a dedicated 12/2 run and an 8/3 4-wire. I was seeing certain spools of just 12/2 at $223.00 for 40 foot.Or maybe that was 8/3 with ground cost. It was at Lowes.
oh and when i took the original stove out, there was the 3-wire (no ground) coming into a junction box that was just stuffed into a drywall cut-out just laying in there with the insulation and then the metal hose feeding the oven/microwave combo. Should i install a wall plug if there is enough clearance to do so (for the oven)? The replacement oven doesn't have a plug, it's a metal flexible hose with 4 wires coming out of it. All done in 1995 when the home was built.
In other words for dryers & ranges the wiring code now wants you to add a neutral if I'm not mistaken.
yes
What if the wire coming out of the wall doesn't have a white wire? There's just Red, Black, and a bare wire (ground?).
The bare wire is likely the ground or the common, see where it attached in the fuse box, normally the white and the ground connect on the bus bar in the fuse panel anyway.
@@jeffostroff Thx. Someone told me that I needed to split the bare wire and attach a white to part of it which would then attach onto the post on the socket where the white would normally go.
this needs a extension box to clear the drywall.
Does it still work if is not grounded ???
Fernando It should still work if not grounded, because the 2 line voltage wires, the red and black are what supplies power to the stove, and the white neutral is the return. But by not connecting the copper ground wire, you lose protections from shock, because say the black or red wire pops loose and touches against the metal chassis of the electric range, now it could be electrified and you could get shocked by touching it.
OK, so I have a new drop in cook top with three wires hard wired to the unit. They are Red (power), Black (power) and Green (ground) there is NO white wire, so where does the green wire go?
You'll have to read the manufacturer install and wiring instructions for that. The green should be tied to ground in the electrical panel. Note that they also tie the white neutrals to the same ground rail inside the electrical panel.
@@jeffostroff Unfortunately the cook top was purchased from a friend, who never installed it, and the instructions are lost
@@bruceburnett8484 Do you know manufacturer and model #, it's quite easy to find the instructions on their web site for older units, all in the customer service part of the site with the downloads and manuals.
My box had five wires how can I make it work
You only need four wires so kind of curious as to what the fifth wire is unless it was meant to connect on down the line to something else in the circuit so that's what you need to determine is where that other wire goes.