Return to the MH17 Crash Site: Russian Roulette (Dispatch 87)
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- Опубліковано 29 вер 2024
- On July 17, 2014, Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 was shot down over eastern Ukraine, killing 298 innocent people. While investigations continue into exactly what happened, representatives from the Dutch Safety Board are still recovering pieces of the plane that have been lying in fields for four months. In the absence of an official determination, pro-Russia separatists and the Ukrainian government are putting out their own theories.
VICE News correspondent Simon Ostrovsky traveled to the site of the MH17 crash, where Dutch investigators continue their work, and spoke with a Cossack commander as well as a representative from the Ukrainian Security Services about the blame game between the two camps that will likely persist for months to come.
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The smirk (smile) of rus-kossachek while he says that the "plane was hit by the rocket:. Says everything who did it
The plane took off from Schiphol Airport, Amsterdam, Netherlands, NATO, which in itself excludes the Dutch from objective investigators in the case of the MH17 flight disaster and makes them a responsible and interested party. But after it was published where the wreckage of the plane fell, what kind of wreckage it was and their appearance, their damage, as well as recordings from the flight recorders of their simultaneous shutdown, the Dutch from the responsible will mix into the main culprits because the plane was not shot down by an anti-aircraft missile, it was absolutely blown up, because physics (dynamics, aerodynamics, vibrations and waves) and the design of the aircraft (the system of registration of flight data) can not be deceived.
So "NATO organises a false flag attack" and murdering Russians pretending to be aeperatisist claim it was their missile anyway? Face it theirs no way in which Russian leaders don't look sub-human in this situation.
shut up you c//t
@@owenthomas5103 Stop lying! There is not and cannot be an anti-aircraft missile in this case, because the Boeing has been blown up! Not only did the fuselage collapse in the air, which is almost impossible when an anti-aircraft missile explodes, but the plane also began to collapse BEFORE it was allegedly shot down. So the Western and Ukrainian terrorists went on a FORGERY. Instead of the fragments of the 9M38M1 anti-aircraft missile, the details of the disassembled Ukrainian 9M38 anti-aircraft missile, according to which it is obvious that this missile had no combat use. As well as forgery of fragments of striking elements. So in the 9N314M1 warhead there are 1870 I-beams (well, or as the Dutch called it a bow tie) two fake ones were initially slipped, only one got to the so-called court, their mass, size and chemical composition do not correspond to the real ones. So the initial mass of the I-beam is 8.1 g, and the loss in mass is 6-12%, what was slipped weighed only 5.5 g (there is a photo of weighing in the Gilze en Rijen Netherlands) and in the Dutch report it is already 6.1 g. Moreover, there is not a single hole on the skin of Boeing flight MH 17 in the form of an I-beam and corresponding to its size Just not.
I’m from India 🇮🇳 and I’d like to ask Russia to stop selling us weapon systems that don’t work. Please be honest with us and don’t send military equipment that performs poorly 🙏
Still see you as brother country 🇮🇳❤️🇷🇺
@@owenthomas5103 What are your terms! In the best traditions of the Third Reich!
I have a feeling that if the Cossak knew the Ukranians had shot down the plane as it would benefit the way Russia is viewed by the world.
He's not going to say that they did, but basically, they did.
It's not solid proof, but if you're given the opportunity to clearly denounce your enemy to the world, you're going to take it.
This also lines up with the idea that the Buk-M1 could differentiate between military and civilian aircraft, and the operators who were probably under supervision from advisers, didn't see, or ignored the system in place to check and assumed it was a Ukranian aircraft due to the previous days before.
Also one last note, why would the Ukranians have high altitude anti air operational in the area if the Separatists don't have any high altitude transport aircraft or military craft, because they don't need it. Perhaps they have a couple of Mi-24's, but you don't need a god damn Buk-M1 to shoot down a MI-24.
Whatever proof there is, or if you have a logical think about it, the finger points at Russia far more than it does the Ukrainians.
You are right in your opening statement the kozak in his pride reveals it all. His "competitor" seperatist leaders "fucked up" and he is happy about it.
And I concur that speratists missused the BUK and a russian senior operator probably could have done the "right " thing.
I think your conclusion is somewhat wrong though. Ukrainians obviously knew they face high tech russian anti air systems as they got downed frequently.
For them hiding behind a plane is a "win-win". Survive and if plane hit blame seperatists.
Ukrainian investigator at the end is Bullshitting as soon as it is about the jets hiding behind planes. They obviously done did it.
I think one human has not enough fingers to to put on all the criminals involved in this.
But the most logic is old guy on the bike: Why fly over a warzone?
Using the BUK transporter erector launcher and radar (TELAR) alone without the dedicated target acquisition radar (TAR) coupled with the low skilled crew it's nearly impossible to differentiate a commercial Boeing from a military transport.
ThePeacemakernow that's not an investigator but merely a spokesperson who wouldn't have any real knowledge
ThePeacemakernow Because they were instructed to do so by the Ukrainian air traffic control, that's why. Why instruct a civilian plane to fly over a warzone? I think this report answered that question already.
***** MH17 wasn't simply flying over the war zone as usual. It was _rerouted_ to fly over a war zone at a lower hight a couple of days after the rebels recieved the BUK SAM (an approximate dislocation of which Kiev was aware of through the intercepted phonecalls posted on the SBU channel), which led to it being in the same airspace at the same time as a Ukrainian military jet.
It just isnt a BUK missle because the penitration holes are small on the plane
The big question is why was the Malaysian Airline Flight 17 flying over a war zone area? The pilots supposed to be aware of it, or perhaps their officials at least notify the areas they were flying that is unsafe or not.
IIRC Flights were allowed over a certain height (don't remember the number), because the hand-held anti-air weapons the Seperatits used only work up to a certain height. The problem is that the rebels got their hands on a fairly sophisticated AA System (Buk) which doesn't have this restriction.
So from the data existent at that date it shouldn't have been that big of a deal, although still pretty risky, to fly over this area.
This question was answered hours after it happened… It doesn't reduce the responsibility of those who shot it down. It simply explains part of it… It is illegal to shoot at civilian transports as it is illegal to disguise soldiers as civilians. It seems obvious that the fault is on the pro-Russian side, but they try to move it on Ukrainian side by accusing Ukraine of using civilian planes for military purposes.
While there is no evidence of Ukraine using civilian airplanes for military purposes, there is evidences of Russia shooting down civilian airplanes… And there is many examples of Russia constructing false explanations as propaganda.
SymbolX
How about the Iraninian Air Flight 655 that was shot down by the US during 3rd July 1988 ?
John Picondo what about it?
John Picondo It's a common route for planes heading in that direction from NW Europe. It is not uncommon for civilian flights to fly over conflict zones. Man portable AA weaponry like Stingers and Strela cannot reach to the altitudes that civilian flights cruise at. It is also quite illegal to purposefully shoot at civilians. It's also quite hard to misidentify a civilian airliner with a bomber or a military transport.
As far as the European and Ukrainian transport authorities were aware, there was no threat to foreign flights at cruise altitude.
An interesting twist to this story is that the Buk system has the ability to display the transponder data from the plane it is targeting. The crew manning the Buk either ignored it or was incapable of understanding what it meant.
- А вы знаете, кто сбил?
- Ракета.
Прямо как царь Путин про подлодку "Курск".
камнем сбили
U gets it or maybe u don’t
А вы знаете?
Why does it take so long? Do they know already but does not want to tell?
GUys don't respond on russian putin`s troll posts. Just mark them and shame them!
Looks like Obamas is trolling again. 'Hey, everyone that doesnt agree with the west is a troll!'' i hear this bs everywere, hypocrites!
it is too binaire,all russians aren't trolls,and every nationalism has his own army of trolls
Plenty of Ukrainian provocation in the comments to.
Here we have the argument of, "Whoever allowed MH17 to fly over this part of Ukraine should be blamed" with counter arguments of "It doesn't matter, they still shot down a Civilian airliner and doesn't make them any less murderers".
What I make of this is that, we westerners are always right. We can get away with anything because we're western, and Russia is always the enemy. We shot down a Russian civilian airliner in 2001 (Siberia Airlines Flight 1812) killing all 78, shot down an Iranian civilian airliner (Iran Air flight 655) in 1988 killing all 290. But you know what? It's ok because our news can simply make everyone forget that we did those things and just turn all the attention to Russia to make it look like we're saints.
But the west did apologize
It's simple, Russia were trying to para drop giant war bears using man cannons into Ukraine as an undercover operation, and a plane accidentally got in the way and was taken out by the power of the bear.
reminds me of C&C red alert 3
Clarence Flett
Yeah, didn't think anyone would get that :p
BillyBoBaggin lol i love that game
Im amazed the parts of the plane are still scattered around even today. Does Russia have no shame or what?
I've read through the comments and found out that a lot people are misinformed. First of all host country is responsible for the safety of any civilian airplane passing through its territory. Plane was flying in Ukraine so in this case Ukraine was responsible to guide this plane safely within its borders. Secondly plane was diverted by Ukrainian control tower from its course to a conflict zone with known SAM sites that had already shot down multiple military planes. Why?! Lastly you need to think about who benefited from this tragedy. Apparently Washington knew this was going to happen as they made immediate press release shortly after the incident and knew who to blame without any investigation. I'm not taking any side in this conflict but people are being fed some serious propaganda by media.
Those were Dutch student public transportation passes dating back to 2007. They are no longer valid. i see no reason as to why they would be on the scene, except for maybe a memento for the people they belonged to.
Vice has some of the best international conflict coverage out there, but this video appears to be giving just a little to much credit to the "Russian Separatist" murderers who shot down that civilian plane.
Ok, Columbo!
Ive watched like 40 episodes of this now. And i still can not tell whose side these vice guys are on. I am sort of for the people but still not sure..
This is getting to me because i dont know who the bad guys really are
This is crazy... Usually the media is very clear on who to take sides with, and who to be against
Im so confused. Please will someone in the media tell me which ones to hate?
But nobody else is reporting this
IDK man... I just dont know...
Russia.. ofc
Dont know who is fault....but why the fuck you let a civilian aircraft fly over the warzone? Just dont fucking get it!
The Russian indifference to this tragedy has done them no favours in the EU.
You can still Fucking smile and Blame them for crossing over the war zone, tf
I had schoolmates in this plane
what were their names? may they rest in peace
Seriously the place seems to be dead,did both sides agree to a ceasefire or what?Could anybody explain the situtation to me right now?
So, these killer finally admit they shoot down the MH17 ..??
of course she would say no, its fake
Would anyone believe a government that came to power in a violent coup, lead by Nazi Neo Fascists ? Those same Neo Fascists are now in the parliament, and current fighting or seats in the new cabinet, which is why to date there isnt a new government as neight Poroshenko, or Yatsenyuk can agree on behalf of their backers. The fact that the Dutch team have yet to release information with regard to what brought the plane down, suggests the complicity of the Kiev Government. Surely if it was anything to do with the Rebels, it would be painted over the worlds news outlets. And lets not forget the sudden departure of several members of the government after the MH17 tradgedy. Kiev is not a government, and its clear they are in no rush to form one, as the day they do, peoople will demand answers.
Does VICE team still filming in estern Ukraine?
5:04 shes hottt ..
that social media post makes it obvious..
Very terrible thing to see.
And trying to understand, but at the end is simply we know now who did this terrible crime.
But this general talk about what this plane doing flying over Ucraine, first Ucraine is a big country over there sky at 36,000 feet there are docens of international flights every day like in many other countries.
At the same time I understand that one flight decide to avoid flight over that area, but other flights didn't and flight over and nothing happened
It was a matter of time.
Yes all those flight should be diverted from flying that area but the responsible knows that not everything that flight at that attitude are military. Is a terrible thing and we hope this is a lesson learned for every one.
that old separatist guy dodging the question is more than telling
I really need to stop reading youtube comments...
Agree, it's terible down here.
Too many 10 year old Call of Children arm-chair generals falling for the "cool" internet bandwaggon of spreading anti-Russia propaganda.
UA-cam comments are bad, but the ones on VICE News are the worst. A friend of mine downloaded something for chrome, that just disabled all comments on youtube, and he said it was the best thing he had ever done. No spoilers, No ignorance and no trolls.
x01B Really? I thought being anti-West was the "cool" not longer than a year ago...
@@ClintEastwood711 time gives you reason,being pro-putin is so cool in every european countries....and during this time average people of Ukraine and Russia suffer from states propagandas
VICE News correspondent Simon Ostrovsky traveled to the site of the MH17 crash, where Dutch investigators continue their work, and spoke with a Cossack commander as well as a representative from the Ukrainian Security Services about the blame game between the two camps that will likely persist for months to come.
Follow @simonostrovsky on Twitter here: twitter.com/SimonOstrovsky
Watch “Sentenced to Death by a Crowd: Russian Roulette (Dispatch 86)” - bit.ly/11CCa2V
Can I just say that Simon deserves an award for his reporting. I have never seen such devotion to a story and his ability to report under any circumstance.He is an inspiration to young reporters and to all those who watch his stories. Never before has someone made me want to research into a situation and find out more about what was going on. It is people like him that should be rewarded in this world. He has done more of a duty to media than any modern singer can claim. I hope to see plenty more of him in the future.
VICE News Very well made and thorough report.
I look forward to reading the crash report from the Dutch commision, even though i personally think that it is clear who shot it down.
Nice pro Russian girl you interviewd
VICE why it took you a week more to release this interview? In dispatch 86 Simon claimed he interviewed this guy only to pass the territory he controlled and it wasn't really important.
His smile and 'no comment' might have a meaning but it feels something vital is absent in the interview. Will you post the full interview with no cuts please?
WuuMGaming
They could have interviewed him a second time. There is no indication the questions asked to that guy in both videos was shot at the same time. Also they may have asked him them those questions in the same interview but saved this bit so that Simon could do more reporting and interviews about MH17 to create a more complete story.
What I find a bit odd about the claim that the Ukrainian air force was following civilian airliners is that a civilian airliner flies at around 800kmph whilst a military plane would be flying at almost twice that speed, especially as several military planes had already been shot down.
Do your research
@@officialSCP1156 So, if I have understood you correctly, you say that military aircraft fly at the same speed as civilian aircraft?
@@VanlifewithAlan Yeah military jets can travel at the same speed that civillian airliners travel at. They can even travel at the same speed as ww2 planes. Very mindblowing I know
@@Caucasiannigga365 Your claim that a military jet on a military operation would be travelling at the same speed as a WW2 plane is mind blowing.
@@VanlifewithAlan well, that is precisely the point of the claim, that they were flying slow and using civilian aircraft as cover. in order to do this, it would make sense to fly at the same speed, so as not to be detected. doesnt mean its true, but i think youre missing the point
For those saying that the separatists had a right to shoot the civilian aircraft because there was a military one hiding behind (and the civilian aircraft should not have been there), then they must assume that the civilians in separatist controlled areas should not be there and Ukraine bombing civilian houses where separatist are hiding "behind" is OK. Having double standards means that you are in favor of one side. Or one acknowledge that there is no excuse to attack civilians; or civilians can be attack (because they should not have been there)!
how about: its war its shit the people suffer one or the other way. no one is right here they are all complicit in crimes on humanity.
Only a coward would hide behind a civilian on purpose. If this is true the pilot should be tried for war crimes. Unthinkable.
Nathaniel Talcott Don't worry, sooner or later Putler will stand trial for his war crimes.
Nathaniel Talcott Commercial planes are flghting at 10km altitude.
1) Assault planes as usual flight MUCH lower.
2) Before Russia gived them BUK system, separatists have only AA like "Strela", which is shoulder mounted weapon and it is very hard to shot a war plane with it. So pilots do not have to hide "after" plane
@@drVutT dumbass, why would you fly a plane over an active warzone?
If I were the separatists I'd be screaming for the investigators to arrive as I couldn't wait to show the world that the Ukranians shot down the missile. However, the fact that investigators weren't allowed there immediately at the time and separatists aren't doing everything they can to raise this issue and maintain it as a point of interest, speaks volumes.
I remember before all this inccident with the Malaysia Airlines getting shotdown around Dispatch 60, before the inccident the Russian seperatist were like yeah for novorrussia! When they shot down that Ukrainian Jet.
Now there gonna be like "What! We didnt have the capability to take down that Airline down." and now they blame on Malaysia Airlines.
"... A missile... TEEHEE"
Yea right nationalists always think they're so fucking adorable.
@@hUCK- there’s nothing wrong with being a nationalist and loving your country!
@@glockdude5472 Yes, there is a lot wrong with it
@@TheXoronLP not
After the incident Malaysia Airline changed the route of that flight.
It went over Syria and Iraq. Just think about those people being so terribly incompetent to let civilian planes fly over zones like that. Especially when a plane gets shot down in one warzone, you don't send it over another.
Rest in peace flight Malaysia airlines MH17 🙏😔
Vice being fair, objective and doing its research and field work really well as usual. Kudos!
Yeah, this post did not age well.
haha@@paidrussiantroll1305
bellingcat covered this, and investigated that it was a russian buk
For those who blame MA: commercial airliners fly way above the reach of usual weaponry in similar type conflicts. It has never happened before that such a complex and powerful weapon like BUK missile system would fell into hands of non-state actors. While US FAA has issued warnings regarding this airspace, no other aviation agency did so. Get over it, it's a freak accident, the only ones to blame are people who gave BUK to poorly trained personnel.
What kind of air traffic controller let a civilian plane fly over a warzone?
SERIOUSLY??? What the hell. It's an American airline????
Bernardo Grando it is kinda not the war zone, it is the high separatist insurgency zone and FUCKING NOONE, NO PERSON IN THEIR GOOD MIND WOULD’VE THOUGHT THAT SEPARATISTS COULD HAVE AN ANTI AIRCRAFT SYSTEM. but yeah, kind russians gave it to them
Lisa I mean it wasn’t. It was Malaysian
Lisa ITS A FRICKING MALAYSIAN AIRLINE
No what kind of airline????
when u say no comment after being asked if u did something its just like saying its me lol
Are you that shallow? More influential and authoritative people have been assassinated for nothing and nobody even knows who was behind it, who in his right mind would provide ANY comment in an environment where highly specialized death squads can just operate without any evidence of anybody's involvement?
Neither acknowledging or dismissing whatever happened there is a good idea as both sides have their own special purpose units which can freely operate behind enemy lines so if they confirmed some theory, then the Russian special purpose units will take them out, had they said anything dismissive then the Ukrainian special purpose units would take just as likely take them out.
Clearly not the best of thinkers now are you?
The truly sad thing about the conflict is that people try to "choose sides" based on who they feel shot the airliner. The plane has NOTHING to do with the conflict that killed about 15 times more people than there were on the airplane. Its an independent event and who ever responsible for one crime should not be used to try and justify an entire war.
I disagree.
There is no coincidences on war .
That plane was directed to fly over a war zone by a Ukraine air controller .
Why was that ?
Several military planes had already been shot down over East Ukraine .
Donetsk airport had already seen battle on their grounds .
Several commercials aircraft companies were already diverted from flying above Ukraine due to war . BA , Air France , etc .
This is a very dirty story being played here but one day truth will surface just like OIL does .
@@fightback397that's an interesting point you make. I thought the pilot decided to fly over that area on his own accord. If that were the case, surely there should be a recording of the controller telling the pilot where to fly through.
That blonde woman was trying to ignore Simon's questions. I mean Simon is obviously tilting toward Ukraine because he had bad dealings with a small group of rebels but at least he looked at both sides a bit although he's still obviously bias.
I know who did it. It was Mecha-Putin riding his cyborg bear and then throwing a butterknife at the plane. But rumors say that it might have been Lincoln with an Alien Musket and kitten bullets. Either way it's CIA's fault because kittens don't like space.
Re watching this again today. The girl Yelena Kalenkina, the one that claimed a Ukranian plane was the one responsible; I just realizase she was the girlfriend and then wife of infamous was criminal known as Motorola. Anything she says should be taken a grain of salt.
First of all I want to say that this reporter has literally gone through hell to give us the most up-to-date information. Also as an American I can say there all the people of this region on both sides are very educated. This was very insightful. Thank you Simon for your hard work
Wise words my friend
The man I the beginning saying “why would you fly a commercial plane through a war zone” that was my exact thought first time I heard about this
It was happening all the time. The question is what were they thinking shooting down an aircraft at such a high altitude. It wasn’t like Ukraine was bombing them from high altitudes.
One year later to your comment . That was exactly my question . Also because other airliners were already diverting their planes from that area .
Still a commercial airline flies at a higher altitude than a military aircraft that is busy bombing the area .
This all story smells badly .
Real reporting!
I hope all those innocent victims of this war have found peace.
First of all, nobody explained why 1 year is necessary to decrypt and interpret the black box findings. Second, it doesn't take 1 year to analyze the Kiev control tower tapes. We don't even know if the tapes that had been withheld by the Kiev government ever made it to the investigators. Third, we don't know what's happening in the NATO secured room in Holland when the doors close. The evidence may be tampered with or fabricated, the video games "satellite photos" that were presented as proof of the Russian guilt may be made look realistic, the control tower tapes may be erased or re-recorded . Fourth, if the investigators had found evidence to charge the Russians or East Ukraine fighters, they would have released it a long time ago. Last, NATO intelligence has already said that the evidence would not be available to the public.
Only a conclusion that accuses the Kiev government military can be considered as exempt of manipulations. A revelation of the guilt of the Eastern fighters would remain questionable.
It' all rigged. If the Kiev military is found guilty, they will surround it with a story that makes it look like it is the Eastern fighters fault.
One year is not enough. They'll extend. With a seal of "national security", they can do and say anything they want. That's what they do all the time when it embarrasses the government.
It is enough to see that the state department did not release any credible evidence to say that the rebels didn't do it.
*****"... decrypt and interpret the black box findings... analyze the Kiev control tower tapes. We don't even know if the tapes that had been withheld by the Kiev government ever made it to the investigators."
Is there a word or 2 not clear to u dudy dud?
Long story short: someone got their hands on (and had some success against enemy targets with) a Russian A.A.P.. Then they fucked up. только мое мнение.
I like how everyone in the comments knows exactly all the facts, it's like they all have been in Donetsk and have seen everything with their own eyes, amazing.
simon you are the real deal. thanks for the reports since the beginning and the truth told with your crew.
R.I.P to those people that died in the crash. Their blood is on putins hands.
No they're on your hands.
Why would a commercial plane be allowed to fly over this area? Do you know how nay times the CIA, MI5 or any other intelligence agency have sacrificed civilians to surveille an area in war zones? Look up the time MI6 used a commercial airline in the first hours of the Gulf War to send a unit of SAS into Iraq, and the civilian passengers got caught in the middle and were kidnapped and held captive and tortured. The British government let it happen, they were sacrificed so they could get those guys in. Governments do stuff like that all the time and no one ever knows. They most likely let that plane go over that zone for some stupid reason. They probably thought "No one would shoot down an airliner with passengers on it?".
@@paulbrajuha6555
Or because they wanted it shot down ?
Pro-russian separatist leader on his social network:
- We, the glorious Donetsk force, have shot down a Ukrainian military cargo plane.
- We again shot down another Ukrainian military plane.
- Damn we are good at this! Another Ukrainian plane down!
- -Another Ukrainian plane down! We are aweso...- Screw it nothing happened...
Isn't it obvious who caused this tragedy? Also the separatist leader, in this video, proved the validity of the video released by Ukrainian SBU, thus the conversation did happen. Him also giving "no comment" to the question who shot down the plane further shows it was most likely the pro-russians.
This is war, and shit happens. But if they try to cover up their tracks... Now that becomes more than a war crime than it already is.
That girl " Yelena Kalenkina" was "Motorla's wife.
Eight years later ... We should let Ukraine be dissolved because of its politicians. Unfortunately, citizens from all nearby countries pay for their mistakes and lies.
there is just 1 simple question, why have the Ukrainian authorities not released the contents of the black box? its a really basic thing, and extremely important, yet a whole bunch of other garbage is discussed
For me one of the best videos in this serie, and that means a lot.
So Vice left Ukraine when the real shit started happening?
Apparently. Simon is now reports from Israel - Syria border...
I like Simon and respect his journalism, however Vice has changed for the worst since HBO and Bill Maher got involved. The lack of professionalism in the Guantanamo Bay tour turned me off from Vice.
First of all, we should keep all options open.
But looking critically to the theory of a Ukrainian fighter jet flying just behind a civilian passenger jet on 30.000 feet altitude at almost 1000 km per hour just a few seconds from the Russian border (at that speed) some questions arise.
Would a Ukrainian fighter jet risk crossing the Russian border within only seconds by flying at that altitude at that speed and behind a civilian aircraft?
>It doesn't seem logic so I guess not<
Would a Ukrainian fighter jet fly at that altitude at that speed while the enemy targets are on the surface?
> Again it doesn't seem logic so I guess not<
Where separatist forces "hunting" Ukrainian military freight jets in the vicinity?
> Probably, because they shot down several military planes in that period of time<
Would that make the "accidental" downing of flight MH17 by separatist forces backed by Russian forces plausible?
>Definitely
There are many other reasons the plane *could* have come down. None of which are relevant due to the fact that rebels used weapons supplued by Russian forces to shoot down the plane and took the black boxes from the crash site which was in their own territory afterwards
Ukraine wasn't using SAMs to shoot rebel/Russian planes out of the sky at that time. What more needs to be said? They (rebels) assumed it was Ukrainian military and shot it down...either that or they didn't care who it was and were just trigger happy wanting to see if they could down a plane that day
Wouldn't the civillian aircraft be able to notice them beeing tailed by another aircraft? Don't they have radar or something similar to avoid collisions?
Maybe someone, who knows about this stuff, can clear this up because if it's possible there should be evidence from other civillian aircrafts flying through the area.
Good point, if found true that explain why they haven't released the air traffic radio recordings
art poirot Should i remember you WHO took the black boxes?
You dont need black boxes to record a radio conversation. Also. Knowing how biased the investigation could be against russia, I can't blame them for taking the boxes
So what is the problem then?
***** It looks like the pilots were dead somewhere in between 13:19:57 and 13:20:10 (based on the their previous reply time). And in 2 minutes Rostov said it _started_ to fall apart. Why didn't it started immediately?
Tu 154 was shot down by a Ukrainian S-200 anti-aircraft missile, the fuselage did not fall apart in the air, Tu-22 was shot down by a Buk anti-aircraft missile, the fuselage did not fall apart in the air, Il-76 was shot down by Ukraine near Belgorod, the type of missile is still determined the fuselage did not fall apart in the air. And the fuselage of the MH 17 fell apart in the air and even began to fall apart before it was allegedly shot down. And do not lie about the wind, this is not the force that can change the vector of movement of the wreckage of an airplane flying at a speed of about 900 KM / H.
I’m from India 🇮🇳 and I’d like to ask Russia to stop selling us weapon systems that don’t work. Please be honest with us and don’t send military equipment that performs poorly 🙏
Still see you as brother country 🇮🇳❤️🇷🇺
@@ghostpilot218you're embarrassing yourself. Keep quiet.
From the holes shown in the video on the fuselage of the plane, they look like auto cannon fire. Is it possible that a Ukrainian jet shot it down with its gun fire? I don't know enough about the evidence that the Dutch investigators have.
@@CosmicValkyrie Yes, there were round holes. And even round destructive elements were found (This, of course, excludes the Buk air defense system from the culprits that it shot down flight MH 17, although flight MH 17 was not shot down at all, but blown up. And this is not included in the plans of the Dutch and everyone else who was involved in this). But even taking into account the rate of fire of aircraft guns, they could leave such holes, with such accuracy only in statics; in dynamics, the distance between the holes would be much greater. And yes, they are precisely round if, and in motion, even ammunition with a circular cross-section leaves an oval hole. So what the Dutch showed in the hangar also proves the static nature of the explosion relative to the aircraft. Only with a static position of the explosive device relative to the target object: there is a point of detonation and straight lines of dispersion of the destructive elements diverging from it. In dynamics, the point of explosion is the line of explosion. However, this point is indicated incorrectly by the Dutch; it is not outside the cockpit, but inside it.
@@bak1391 if a jet approaches the airlines from the side instead of the back, then it is possible that the holes would be circular. However, there are other projectile lines that you describe. It could just be shrapnel. After all the plane was in pieces as it was falling down.
Simon Ostrovsky is my favourite field reporter , sure he gets kidnapped once in a while but other than that he is very good . I love when he gets in fights with Russians and his accent changes for a few seconds . Stubborn bastard but very good at his job .
Try not to get kidnapped again mate!
It's time for these four soldiers to own up to what they've done.
“Who shot down the plane”
“A missile”
*smirks*
Flight MH 17 was not shot down at all, but was blown up as part of a false flag operation by Western and Ukrainian special services. The external impact on the cockpit from objects allegedly possessing high kinetic energy is an imitation due to the fact that at the time of the crash two additional explosive devices filled with incendiary capsules were detonated in the cockpit, as well as due to massive falsification and concealment of the wreckage of the plane. The chemical agent in these incendiary capsules burned holes in the hull to simulate the explosion of an anti-aircraft missile. The wreckage of the anti-aircraft missile was never found and they went for a forgery, disassembled the Ukrainian missile and made straight, smooth, clean cuts in its engine compartment. And the numbers of these parts, and the parts are not debris, were hidden from 2015 to May 2018 hoping to replace them with parts smuggled from Russia. The fragment from the I-beam or as the Dutch called it a bow tie is also a fake. Its dimensions, mass, and chemical composition do not correspond to the real I-beam.
The last interview with the blonde girl was the least biased and best interview made by simon so far. And its hilarious when asked a question agianced her, she immediately states that russia is propaganda... Yet she accussed Russia but shows no evidence...
She was a spokesperson of the Security Service of Ukraine what were you expecting?
Sadly, you can't expect an unbiased/objective from a person like her.
cyanit42 I guess the situation ukraine is in right now they have no choice but to lie, but yet agian thats how they got into the situation in the first place...
robert karas Much of what is coming out of Russia is propaganda. Russia is mass producing one story after another about how and why MH17 was shot down. If they were innocent, they would just deny it. Not come with 100 different stories and spread so much misinformation.
Frederik Sørensen What the hell are you talking about... RT news and everyone else IS denying it and says there needs to be more research done, actually USA is the only one claiming that it was Russia on the very first day saying "putins missle hits civilian plane" and so on... how about you get your facts strait and actually watch both sides of the story, because if you did watch russian news, then you wouldnt say that Russia is coming up with 100 different stories, now if you count for the theorys and suggestions then your right there is 100 different "guesses" but no one on the russian media is claiming anything, and is actually the very first ones who attempted to help out on finding who caused the crash.
robert karas They are not just denying it. They're spreading misinformation like that the plane was full of corpses. They're coming up with wild theories with absolutely NO evidence to back up that claim.
Yes, the Russian media is claiming a lot of things. Russian media is state owned and they're full of shit as usual.
VICE News Please make the report on Ukraine continues !!!
Островский клевый. Один из немногих журналистов, который показывает ситуацию со всех сторон - и со стороны ребелов и со стороны про-Киевских, а не выбирает какую-то одну.
That woman at the end is basically the definition of pot calling the kettle black.
no words.
thanks vice. you fucking rock.
if you need something in argentina, just say so.
"but it was on 20th june" man, this guy is smart...
stupid russians kidnapped the wrong dude,
this guy is winning the war with his fucking pen.
Having lost military planes to buk missiles prior to the MH17, why didn't the Ukrainian government take an action of closing that area to commercial flights?
"No comment."
nothing new here
after seeing how ukraine held civilians , at least 400 at azovstal
despite UN and redcross dcorridor, then its not hard to imagine ukrinien jet flew behind civilian plane
its ukraine favor tactic using civilian shield
I'm in need of a job right now, can anyone tell me what the Kremlin pays for trolling on Vice videos?
There is a company in St. Petersburg Internet Research Agency they got few hundred people doing comments they peay cheap and they only look for russians who speak english like students looking for easy cash.
NATO bullet proof vest
Are there seriusly people out there who still belive it wasn't the DPR who shot it down? I mean, they had BUK missiles, and they were given to uneducated people, who were obviusly gonna make a mistake at some point. The seperatists had been bombed for months, and they saw a plane, and their response was "shoot it down before it shoots us". But instead of it beeing a fighter jet, it was just a normal passenger jet, flying above 10 kilometers, on a normal flight-route. This shit happens in wars. Does it mean it's okay? Fuck no, whoever pulled the trigger should be punished, But it was going to happen one way or the other.
5:51 aircraft destroyed the building but somehow the roof is still intact
So? Are you suggesting something?
I bet the separatists did shoot it down, and I bet Ukraine probably did use that technique sometimes. As much as it sucks, it is a little insane to continue flights over that area.
This is my favorite news caster
man, i love vice!
She's not a "fighter" she a pretty mouthpiece who is clearly being coached on what to say...
There was an ID of a female, with the text of the state of Utah, USA and of a space or tech company logo. They were not all dutch civs as some had Malaysian skin tone and native Malaysian features
The crew were all supposed to be Malaysian and while most passengers were claimed to be Dutch there were a fair few Malaysians, Indonesians and Australians too (also small number of others).
Vice News is my most reliable force for everything REAL. No bulls#it put past Vice. ♥️✌
And another resident in Eastern Ukraine had seen a bigfoot in the woods 1 hour before the plane crash, carrying what he believe is a surface to air missile launcher.
I've really enjoyed this series from vice I've followed it from last year, but why are there no more dispatches going up when there is more intense fighting and the fact that NATO forces are putting foreign fighters to back the Ukrainian government
It is already proven that it was a Russian BUK.
- Что случилось с рейсом MH17?
- Он упал.
War zone you cant fly period. Pilot error!!!!!
Great job by Simon. One of the most unbiased journalist works these days.
On my opinion both sides are responsible for the tragedy no matter who made 'the frag'. Personally I think the chances are that separatists did it by mistake (even though I am on Russia's side of the conflict from the beginning since I am from Crimea).
I don't like the way world responded to this putting sanctions on Russia (having no direct evidence and with investigation still going). What about presumption of innocence? This makes me think that something is not that straight-forward with this case.
these things dont happen by mistake
Ur0pinionDoesntCount well they do, like 10 yrs ago an ukrainian sam during the military excersise shot down russian civilian airplane heading to tel aviv killing ~150 ppl..this was obviously a mistake, the sam mistook the plane for the flying target...they never confessed though
zzanek source?
@@zzanek There’s a big difference. At that time Ukraine and Russia were allies. In fact the shooting down of the airliner took place during joint exercises.
It's better to be "THE END". Actually we are tired from this conflict.
Simon is very brave person who came back and take interview from one kazak's leader. He is really brave and does great job to bring some light on this and share it to english speaking audience.
I really would consider brave to interview a nazi spoksperson than to interview a Cossak local official .
But since Ukraine Kiev regime is installed by USA it is suddenly ok that they are nazis !!!😤😤😡😡😡
It's so nice to see that in the midst of propaganda from both sides, somebody still does some actual journalism.
the flight path is to blame why did the captain fly over a war zone that was so stupid and should never have happened
Because that was the best path for Europe - South East Asia. AND the airway WAS NOT CLOSED.
A few minutes behind MH17 was a Singapore Airlines flight. Ahead of MH17 heading the other way was an Air India flight. It's clear that the airspace was open.
The problem with BUK version is that this missile has a very noticeable trace from the ground to the sky but it appears nobody seen it in the area full of armed troops and civilians.
Some people saw and heard a military jet in the area but Ukraine denies that.
Nobody has explained yet why Ukraine had changed the route for MH17 to be over a territory non controlled by Ukraine.
And yes Simon did a good job of convincing me who's to blame.
You are full of shit.
WuuMGaming Radar footage of the area that day shows there were no fighter jets near, so of course Ukraine denies it. There wasn't any. MH17 did not change course. It followed the exact same route that a lot of other planes did that day.
Nobody thought Russia had been stupid enough to teach the rebels how to fire anti air craft systems as advanced as a BUK (SA-11) and last, but not least, nobody thought the rebels were so stupid that they mistakenly though a commercial airliner was a military transport plane.
Frederik Sørensen
I didn't said anything about radars as there is no 1 single opinion on that. Russia has provided data their radars saw Ukraine's jet.
I said about ordinary people who live in the area.
I won't comment on your play of words of who is smart and not. I think BUK version (either rebel's or Ukraine's) is less possible than jet one as nobody saw the missile trace in that area and didn't hear the blast. Search for video on youtube how start of such a missile look like.
Frederik Sørensen MH17 did receive order to move to 'ROMEO NOVEMBER DELTA' due to 'traffic' (whatever they meant).
The pilots were dead somewhere in between 13:19:57 and 13:20:10 (based on the their previous reply time). And in 2 minutes Rostov radar saw it _started_ to fall apart. Why didn't it started immediately?
WuuMGaming Luckily, there will be a report that will settle this.
When Simon listened to BS he shakes his head back and forth 🤣
I've been watching this whole series and happened to notice that their are many Russians spitting propaganda on here. It is highly unlikely, but could they possibly be paid to do it?
Stupid war!!??..
hah i completely forgot about this conflict