I have a 92 FXR that has a sumping issue. I don't ride it enough, so when I do, it pukes oil out where I should have a catch can. A catch can is on my to do list for this 4th of July weekend. Thanks for another great video @gixxerfoo.
I've never had any sumping problems, owned a '87 Tour Glide, '95 Super Glide, currently own a '93 Tour Glide and a '84 Electra Glide. The '87 had over 140k on it when I got rid of it and it still ran awesome.
Just noticed on my 87 FLHTC. Sat for a few weeks while i was on vacation. Evo's have a check ball in the oil pump that is usually the culprit... Time to order some parts.
There are some commenters herein who have complained about Harley Davidson. So, I will tell you this true story. Took this girl out to expensive dinners, dancing, etc in different automobiles, (incl. an exotic sport car) on ten (10) different "dates". Got nowhere. Put her one time on the back of my '98 FXDWG and took her for a hamburger late at night... She stripped on the boat docks in Dallas...and she's a school teacher! I married that woman. My point: H-D is more than just a motorcycle...they have an effect on women.
A reputable HD service manager recommended ignoring the service manual procedure and do as follows: when cold, stand the bike up, run the engine for 30 seconds, turn off the engine and then put the bike on the jiffy stand. Walk around the bike, kick the tires and get your gear ready. Then check your oil level. It should be at or near the halfway mark. Only add oil when the level is at or below the fill mark. Fill up to halfway only. The manual says to run on jiffy stand. The service manager said the oil pump will not fully scavenge the oil back to the tank when on the jiffy stand. Running it in the upright position allows proper scavenging. Also, he recommended installing a short sump plug. Some of the factory sump plugs are seated too far in the case and actually block up to 60% of the scavenging. This is how I do it now. I avoid the hot check. Something to ponder :-)
Been there. '18 CVO Limited 115 Anv., 117 in. Stg 4, Stg 2, Stg 1, M8. These are the signs I experienced at about 6,700 miles: 1. oil was disappearing, no leak no burning since new 2. extreme heat because the crank & flywheel were running submerged in oil 3. loss of fuel mileage, went from 38-40 mpg to about 19-20 mpg 4. about 1/3 loss of power There is a H-D Service Bulletin M1450 on sumping on M8 motors beginning in 2017. It stated it was for 117 in., 114 in., and 107 in. motors both factory built or dealer built on 117 & 114 in. motors. SB M1450 says to get bike hot, upright, shut it off and remove the Crankcase Position Sensor and catch and measure any oil that comes out of the dry sump. It said if it is 6 ounces or more it is sumping. My bike had 3 qts. in the sump. That's where the added oil had been going. Plus I had oil changes at 1,000 miles, 2,500 miles, and 5,000 miles. When it sumped the first time (6,700 mi.) it ran like I had filled up with bad gas, full of water. I siphoned the gas out of the tank, added a qt. of fresh gas and ran it out of gas. I carried a qt. of gas and put it in the tank and went to a gas station and filled up. The issue went away but at 6,900 miles it came back even worse. My dealer overhauled the top end and all was good until 62,520 miles (no sumping) but metal in the oil, the hard finish on the cam looked like something was eating on it, chrome finish was gone where the lifters run on the cam lobes, scoring on the cylinder walls, etc. New motor at 62,520 miles. Excellent video Gixx.
Between this channel and Baxter's Garage, I've learned so much about HD engines. Especially Twin Cams since I'm looking at getting an 06 TC 88 Softail as my first bike.
Thank you, l love to hear it's helping someone out. Kevin Baxter builds those motors bullet proof! 06 Softail, just make sure you get the cam chest updated and you're good to go. They have the tried and true 5 speed transmission.
@@GixxerFoo that's good to hear about the 5 speed. It was a concern of mine that it wasn't a 6 speed for hwy use, but my friend who owns the bike said he never had a problem on the hwy. I would eventually love to get a Pro Twin Performance kit put on it😈
@@trailruntim there is a website where you put the year make and model of the bike and you get RPM numbers at different speeds. The older Softails didn't have tachs so that website is handy. I'm sorry but I can't remember the name of it.
I'm hearing the Federal Trade Commission just ruled Harley cannot void warranties like they have been. Maybe you can do a video on this subject? Break it down for us lay people!
The more I watch these videos, the happier I am at my age (68) that I don't need to be looking for a new Harley. I'm happier than ever with my two remaining ancient EVO's. '85 FXRS (interesting conglomeration) and my '96 FXDS that I love. Had to sell one before I moved to FL, so the 97 FLHTCI was the one that went.
I can feel some sumping now (50k miles, FXDWG- 2002), and it takes an excessive amount of time to quiet the lifters on first start from the winter storage. I know its time for a new cam plate and oil pump (currently screaming chicken, original oil pump, with gear drives). I'm going with the S&S plate and pump, but thanks to other projects, it's on the back burner for now. I'm gonna let it ride until fall. It's not that bad yet. Another great vid, and a very important one. Most sumping is not damaging, and the pump will get everything straight with a decent long ride. The original pumps (twin cam) are the bare minimum as far a pressure goes. An updated oil pump will do wonders.
I've never experienced it, but I know someone who did, turned out to be a bad piston oiler. Felt bad for him because he kept thinking it was crank runout, excessive crankcase pressure ect. Great video Gixx, see you next week
I always enjoy your videos. I have a 2007 Road King with a stage 1, and since I’ve been watching your videos I know everything to look out for with this particular year. 28k miles and no issues yet! Keep the awesome content coming and ride safe brother!
Very cool, I have the same year, model and mileage and no issues either. A great plus for the '07 TC 96 is the hydraulic cam chain tensioner. Supposedly more reliable and knowing the way it works it stands to reason.
I love my shovelhead oil system & S&S pump with good ole dump on ground system. Rarely have any oil coming out the breather. My twin cam I had to vent to catch can , and I put a dipstick breather on it and run 1/2 qt lower than recommended
S&S pump makes a big difference! When you fill a twin cam or sportster you want to be no more than 3/4 full when hot on the dip stick. You go to full and you'll be getting oil out of the air cleaner.
2017 CVO limited, ESP warranty put 6k replacing my bottom end all the way to heads because of sumping. Push the issue, measure the amount of oil in your crankcase. You are your best advocate.
Most folks have no idea what is going on with these bikes ..They take it to the dealer and hope, trust them to fix what the problem is ... When the bike just got hot and stopped running, or a lifer fails and takes out a bottom end. Oil pump ect .. i have zero faith in stock harley engines for the most part . Thanks for sharing
Yeah when I did the cam chain upgrade I believe the oil pump o rings were leaking 17 years . Installed new o rings in screaming eagle kit . Tank reads full now always - 👌👍✊🏻
No sumping issues with my 1949 Panhead or my 1996 Road King. I did have issues now and then with my 1968 Sportster until I rebuilt the oil pump, replace the check ball and spring. That cured it.
All Harleys sump . If it is a shovel or early evo it is caused by the check valve ball not seating but regardless there is always oil left in crankcase if it is a Twinkie pull the plug on the bottom of every one should be no more then 7 ounces if there's more you have an oil pump problem if it's a M8 motor well you should expect it to dump ! Regardless the oil pumps always leave oil in the case ! When I'm gonna split cases I always turn the cases upsidedown over night I'm never disappointed there is always a shit load of oil in the pan !
I have an 18 FLHXSE and a 21 FLHXS. I had the fan assisted oil cooler installed on both bikes and replaced the CVO’s oil pump with the latest 20 version. I sleep very well.
Touring/ Dyna models now have the oil tank/pan UNDERNEATH The transmission so as to prevent gravity overcoming check valves(of sorts) not really an issue cept with softtails being overfilled and xl models somewhat.
The external oil pump on the motors from 1935 to 2000 were so simple and reliable, so they had to get rid of it, huh? They could fill the crankcase when the check-ball to seat on the original cast iron pumps up till 1967 could wear and allow the oil tank to drain into the motor. Especially with the old 60 to 70wt oil when cold. In 1968 they came out with an aluminum body pump with a flat end check valve.
Cost, it was cheaper to put it in the bike and on the external oil pump bikes the cover actually supported the cam. To reduce noise supposedly they went to the support plate, internal pump and that reduced detectable noise. Allegedly lol.
Your wrong ..in1968 they had alum.body that still used a 3/8ball bearing...the flat bottom plunger u refer is pressure relieve valve...don't spew untrue info and confuse all the unknowing...geez!
@@theoneracer2716 Never said anything about like that. Besides I have a '68 FLH and know it introduced the aluminum body oil pump. But like most, I replaced it with an S&S.
That remote oil pump worked damn well, they had dumping figured out on the shovel. It was when that oil pump went in the engine when the problem started.
Slow acceleration and sumping into the aircleaner are normal signs of HDs in my experience. SV1000S, DL650, and KLR650 have no such issues. They work perfectly. No issues. Looking for a 1st gen Hayabusa to ride next, after a turbo installation.
One thing they pump so many out are trying too get off the assembly lines is the main issue and HD changes suppliers like changing underwear maybe if they stick to the best supplier and cutting quality over a dollar they’d be better off r us the customers would be but noo they know they have people drooling to get one and the other thing u can do a lot more to a HD but I like all bikes really don’t matter it’s whatever u like the most
@@patrickhollis5332 You are correct. I almost drooled about the PanaAmerica with it's new liquid cooled engine and high tech. Until it dry started on the showroom floor. Hearing that rattle on a new bike keeps me elsewhere. Hell, I have more than enough bikes that had never done that. Just keep riding my 7 old ones.
Hears another one and there's a risky plug on the twin cam. It ain't meant to come out and it red loctited in, but if you do manage to get it out you can measure the oil that comes out of the sump. Not recommended though.
I have that Harley model 1200S in the second picture. It is exactly like that one same color and all. I have never seen another one on the road in twenty years.
What year? I've got a 96. Wish I had twin plug model but that came out in 97. I just took a beautiful ride to Saratoga on it today. They're great bikes
@@paulfiore7083 It is a 2001 I bought it brand new from military overseas sales when I was stationed in Puerto Rico. It came with 10 to 1 compression and upgraded cams from the factory. I had to re-jet the carb to make it run right.
Man, I'm surprised you didn't bring up the bad oil pump from Harley. I just had mine changed and the scavenging ability of the new pump is much better along with the new seal behind the pump. My 2017 114 was sumping about 8 ounces out of the crank sensor after a ride. Now with a new pump, a new cam of course, and venting the dipstick, it seems we have got it taken care of. Yes, I am getting oil residue on the filter at the end of the venting hose which proves excessive crankcase pressure, to me anyway. I have the hose off the dipstick ran straight up and straight back. It's not pouring oil, but there is plenty of residue on that filter. Maybe I'll put another catch can on that hose. Has anyone did that? Please let me know if you have and what your experiences is with that. Thanks Bro, great info as always!
My bonnie wet sumped blew smoke for a mile or so. Shovel. That had a big chuck on the ground from the breather on start up. I put the breather pipe on the chain. And told people it was chain oiler lol. My evo had the filter but seemed ok my Twin cam so far so good “ touch wood “ just a base in the throttle body. But only done about 20,000 miles so still new. lol
I remember on my Sportster I had to start it for a short period to get an accurate oil reading but with the Dyna the oil pan is actually under the engine and trans so it never drains back into the engine while the bike sits.
Yeah the newer A motor is a really nice design. Where you see issues there is if the oil pump doesn't scavenge to the top of the engine correctly and oil backs up in the crank case itself.
@@hawkdsl Some thing's I like better about the Dyna that I own now, and some things I did like better about the Sportster. My Dyna would be perfect if the cam chest used the same gear driven quad-cam set up as a Sportster with straight pushrods and if the drive belt was on the other side like a Sportster, not trapped behind the primary. I also thought my Sportster Evo had a little better sound than my Twin Cam Dyna.
When the dealer looks at the sumping problem, sometimes they install a small breather tube to fix it. Also there was some talk of another fix in that the clutch hollow tube was replaced with another one making me think that is why Harley went back to the cable clutch?
Your talking about transmission transfer issue. Has nothing to do with sumping. Transfer and sumping are two totally different and unrelated issues. But thanks to HD's horrible engineering and production it's common to have both issues at the same time.
@@wonderwing5139 Thanks for the explanation, I thought there was some kind of oil transfer with the clutch tube. Just one more thing we must put up with to be a Harley owner I suppose. 👍
👍 it's not all bad, dry sump systems work pretty well. Honestly while it theoretically a possibility on Twin Cams and Sportsters it's pretty rare. Unless you've piled on a lot of miles, but M8'S well they do have some issues.
I enjoy your videos because you present a lot of intelligent verbal content, no screaming banshees in the background, and current issues with all models of Harleys. One issue I’ve had with my TC88 is the linkage loosening at the spline end of the shaft coming out of the transmission. Any tighten or JB weld failed to tighten it. Only a removal of the primary and disassemble of the transmission corrected the problem. I am wondering if you or any of your followers experienced the same problem.
My evo will puke oil on the driveway if it sits a week. Been happening for years. I Think the problem is the ball check valve in the pump. If the ball seating surface is worn or irregular it leaks by. taking it apart and lapping the seat would probably fix it. but I choose to just pull the vent hose out from the air intake and run it to catch bottle, start it and wait, some times I have to shut down and start again because it fooled me and puked all over the engine and ground. you can hear it start gurgling through the breather hose and thats when it happens. put back the hose and im on my way.
It for sure sounds like it's the check valve, oil pumps for the Evo are pretty inexpensive and not super hard to swap. I'd just swap it out and be done, could even rebuild the old one in case you ever need it.
Oh dang, yeah you wanna be about 3/4 on the dipstick when hot cause if you actually fill to the full mark when hot they will puke out the head breathers.
It’s almost like Internal combustion engines haven’t been produced for over 120 years, why is Harley treating each engine like it’s a new creation? Why are they still using this crap design?
I let my Sportster sit and it was very low on oil and so I topped it up and on a ride it pumped out oily oil from the crankcase into the oil tank which couldn't hold it and it puked oil all over the belt drive which sucked up the oil and started to disintegrate I started losing teeth off the Bell Drive but I managed to make it home without pushing the bike
Off-topic question. When building a performance Harley how much horsepower can a 2000 Harley Sportster (Buell) engine be made to produce? How does a Sportster case and crankshaft compare to a Evo case and crankshaft for strength? TYIA.
Hi, I have a problem with my 1968 Harley Sportster slumping oil in crankcase after sitting for long periods of time, which has happened often. It won't start with the electric starter, as it isn't working and battery is dead. When the oil hasn't slumped, it will start after 3-4 kicks. Would I be correct to say that if I were able to drain the excess oil from the bottom of the crankcase, it would start up as usual? I don't know if I can drain the oil from bottom of crankcase, due to the year of motorcycle. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated!!
A friend tried to replace cam chain tensioners on his 2001 TC by himself. He's not the best of mechanics and I wasn't around to help, even though I've never been in a TC cam chest. After the job was done, he calls me to tell me there's oil blowing out the breathers whenever he starts it up.
If he removed his top end and replaced his breathers, it is entirely possible he installed them wrong. It goes filter, base plate, umbrella valve inserted in base plate, then top plate. I've seen people go filter, umbrella, base, then top. That will just spew oil out of the breathers.
I have a 91 EVO every time it's sits for a long period of time it sumps oil out of the air filter is that normal , I mean every time, should I replace the oil pump
Out of your air filter? It is normal if the bike sits for a while for oil to drain from the tank into the sump. Once you get the bike started and running it should clear up. If it only does it after it's sat for a while that would be alright. Also make sure once it's hot when you check the oil you are about 3/4 full and not at the full mark.
Can sumping issues cause catastrophic transmission failure? I have a 2019 Road King 114 that recently blew the transmission. The engine felt very hot the last ride before total failure. Last time it felt that hot, I broke the plastic intake manifold.
If it's overfilled or carrying fluid over which has been an issue on the M8 it can have the same effect as sumping. Those gears trying to plow through all the oil can put a lot of stress on them, pressure builds, seal give out, it can get nasty.
@@GixxerFooyou are 100 % wrong they is no way an overfilled engine oil system can blow thru crankseal to primary chamber area then into transmission ...u don't know what your talking about...talking out the side of your neck...
It's not a bad idea honesty to help clear some oil out of the system. There's a lot of people that do it to make sure they get as much old oil as possible out.
I do it with scavenger every other oil change you will be surprised of how much oil is still in the system after you get done draining it , specially if you have a oil cooler
I’m having trouble with my dip stick blowing out of my oil tank do to pressure buildup. Is this part of dumping? I can’t even ride the bike oil gets all over side of bike and rear brakes.
That's absolutely a sign of it and the pressure build up in your crank case! What year is your M8? You could for sure use a vented dipstick, you've got some serious crankcase pressure build up.
I heard you mention poor gas mileage. I have an 01 FXDX 88 CI with S&S .510 cam, SE oil pump and cam chest with S&S cam gear drive and 42 mm Mikuni carb but I consistently get only 36.5 mpg. Only has 24K. Could this be sign of sumping problem? It runs great
Mikuni carbs sometimes are notorious for drinking fuel, l doubt you're having a sumping issues unless you have oil disappearing on the dipstick and reappearing later. The bike wouldn't be running good at all if it were sumping. I would point the finger at the carb, they make some awesome power but sometimes they are thirsty.
Absolutely not. I had the exact set up at stage 2 before going to stage 4 and I was averaging pretty much the same as you in a 2002 Night Train, even with my 2002 Electra Glide Std. at stage 2, same. My Mikuni is set up at 25/ 162.5/ 70 and slide in stock position( live in Boston). 95” forged 9:5.1 flat tops, S&S 79cc Super Stock heads, Trask Mystfree breathers (game changers), S&S rockers (std), S&S push rods, S&S lifters, SE plate and pump, ( I’ve run Fueling as well, no difference) , S&S 510 cams, she puts down over 100/100 and gets about 35mpg. I’ve ran different cams in this combo like the TW6, good cam, grossly overrated and went back to the S&S 510, it’s a much smoother, linear cam with longer legs and this is in a bagger.
@@getoffmygrass6974 thanks very much for the info. I'm in Upstate NY. I plan on eventually going to 95" when I need top end but I'm really happy with the 88 . My bike is very light, about 650 lbs., so I'm not feeling a lack of power
@@paulfiore7083You have a great combo going and you can grow with that cam. Also, when you go 95”, don’t be afraid to take that cam up to 10:1 (static), she’ll outrun 107’s and keep right up with the 114’s, with ease. Good luck.
This is why I wet sump engines are the defacto standard with every damn thing these days except for niche high-powered race cars. And that's certainly doesn't describe a push rod engine of any sort. still having a wet sump in this day and age makes no sense whatsoever.
Is the Screamin' Eagle Pro High Volume Oil Pump & Cam Support Plate Kit a good investment (or how necessary is it ) on a fully stock HD M8 107? Please and Thank You.
@@GixxerFoo damn. I’m running a 131 now my engine temps are 320-340 plus and oil at the dip stick reads at times @262 plus and I have a cooler and it has a fan on it as well and using mighty-mites by love jugs and still this high.
Dyna and touring, the A motor will have a oil pan with basically a windage tray which keeps the oil down in the pan. The oil should stay down in that pan away from the crank, but if it's sumping it builds up in the crank case and isn't returned to the pan.
Hey Gixxer, quick question. My dad has a 2000 Fatboy and it sat for a while. No oil in the tank. I drained the oil, and then put what the book called for. It seems I put too much (didn’t change the oil filter or know at the time how much stays in the motor). He started it later and after a couple of minutes, the oil dipstick flew out and oil went everywhere. Possible to drain some oil out and run it again? Anything else to check?
Old Indian chiefs are notorious for oil sumping ,too much clearance between oil pump plunger and pump body .my 46 chief would drain the entire oil tank into engine cases ,Panheads forever
@@GixxerFoo Harley 45's had sumping issues ,with the chiefs max clearance between plunger and body is .0005 ideal clearance .00025 Keep up your informative videos ,thank you ,jp
![Дон ДОН, Алаудинов и СБЕЖАВШИЕ из под Курска ахматовцы 😁 [Пародия]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/dEfCf5IK26Q/mqdefault.jpg)
Have you ever experience a sumping issue with an Evo, Twin Cam or Sportster?
I have a 92 FXR that has a sumping issue. I don't ride it enough, so when I do, it pukes oil out where I should have a catch can. A catch can is on my to do list for this 4th of July weekend. Thanks for another great video @gixxerfoo.
I've never had any sumping problems, owned a '87 Tour Glide, '95 Super Glide, currently own a '93 Tour Glide and a '84 Electra Glide. The '87 had over 140k on it when I got rid of it and it still ran awesome.
No but I'm going to start checking my oil more often now ✌️
Had/have… 96, 103, 110 TCs and a 114 M8. Not had any sumping issues.
Just noticed on my 87 FLHTC. Sat for a few weeks while i was on vacation. Evo's have a check ball in the oil pump that is usually the culprit... Time to order some parts.
There are some commenters herein who have complained about Harley Davidson. So, I will tell you this true story. Took this girl out to expensive dinners, dancing, etc in different automobiles, (incl. an exotic sport car) on ten (10) different "dates". Got nowhere.
Put her one time on the back of my '98 FXDWG and took her for a hamburger late at night...
She stripped on the boat docks in Dallas...and she's a school teacher!
I married that woman.
My point: H-D is more than just a motorcycle...they have an effect on women.
A reputable HD service manager recommended ignoring the service manual procedure and do as follows: when cold, stand the bike up, run the engine for 30 seconds, turn off the engine and then put the bike on the jiffy stand. Walk around the bike, kick the tires and get your gear ready. Then check your oil level. It should be at or near the halfway mark. Only add oil when the level is at or below the fill mark. Fill up to halfway only. The manual says to run on jiffy stand. The service manager said the oil pump will not fully scavenge the oil back to the tank when on the jiffy stand. Running it in the upright position allows proper scavenging. Also, he recommended installing a short sump plug. Some of the factory sump plugs are seated too far in the case and actually block up to 60% of the scavenging. This is how I do it now. I avoid the hot check. Something to ponder :-)
Been there. '18 CVO Limited 115 Anv., 117 in. Stg 4, Stg 2, Stg 1, M8. These are the signs I experienced at about 6,700 miles: 1. oil was disappearing, no leak no burning since new 2. extreme heat because the crank & flywheel were running submerged in oil 3. loss of fuel mileage, went from 38-40 mpg to about 19-20 mpg 4. about 1/3 loss of power There is a H-D Service Bulletin M1450 on sumping on M8 motors beginning in 2017. It stated it was for 117 in., 114 in., and 107 in. motors both factory built or dealer built on 117 & 114 in. motors. SB M1450 says to get bike hot, upright, shut it off and remove the Crankcase Position Sensor and catch and measure any oil that comes out of the dry sump. It said if it is 6 ounces or more it is sumping. My bike had 3 qts. in the sump. That's where the added oil had been going. Plus I had oil changes at 1,000 miles, 2,500 miles, and 5,000 miles. When it sumped the first time (6,700 mi.) it ran like I had filled up with bad gas, full of water. I siphoned the gas out of the tank, added a qt. of fresh gas and ran it out of gas. I carried a qt. of gas and put it in the tank and went to a gas station and filled up. The issue went away but at 6,900 miles it came back even worse. My dealer overhauled the top end and all was good until 62,520 miles (no sumping) but metal in the oil, the hard finish on the cam looked like something was eating on it, chrome finish was gone where the lifters run on the cam lobes, scoring on the cylinder walls, etc. New motor at 62,520 miles. Excellent video Gixx.
All this tells me is to never buy an M8 lmao Gonna stick with my Evo Sporty and if I get a bigger bike, *maybe* a Twin Cam.
Between this channel and Baxter's Garage, I've learned so much about HD engines. Especially Twin Cams since I'm looking at getting an 06 TC 88 Softail as my first bike.
Thank you, l love to hear it's helping someone out. Kevin Baxter builds those motors bullet proof! 06 Softail, just make sure you get the cam chest updated and you're good to go. They have the tried and true 5 speed transmission.
@@GixxerFoo that's good to hear about the 5 speed. It was a concern of mine that it wasn't a 6 speed for hwy use, but my friend who owns the bike said he never had a problem on the hwy. I would eventually love to get a Pro Twin Performance kit put on it😈
@@trailruntim there is a website where you put the year make and model of the bike and you get RPM numbers at different speeds. The older Softails didn't have tachs so that website is handy.
I'm sorry but I can't remember the name of it.
I'm hearing the Federal Trade Commission just ruled Harley cannot void warranties like they have been. Maybe you can do a video on this subject? Break it down for us lay people!
The more I watch these videos, the happier I am at my age (68) that I don't need to be looking for a new Harley. I'm happier than ever with my two remaining ancient EVO's. '85 FXRS (interesting conglomeration) and my '96 FXDS that I love. Had to sell one before I moved to FL, so the 97 FLHTCI was the one that went.
I can feel some sumping now (50k miles, FXDWG- 2002), and it takes an excessive amount of time to quiet the lifters on first start from the winter storage. I know its time for a new cam plate and oil pump (currently screaming chicken, original oil pump, with gear drives). I'm going with the S&S plate and pump, but thanks to other projects, it's on the back burner for now. I'm gonna let it ride until fall. It's not that bad yet. Another great vid, and a very important one. Most sumping is not damaging, and the pump will get everything straight with a decent long ride. The original pumps (twin cam) are the bare minimum as far a pressure goes. An updated oil pump will do wonders.
I'll keep chuugin along on my Shovelhead which has been rock solid.
Man you should have way way more subs than what you do. Love your videos. You are the real deal. Keep up the good work.
I've never experienced it, but I know someone who did, turned out to be a bad piston oiler. Felt bad for him because he kept thinking it was crank runout, excessive crankcase pressure ect. Great video Gixx, see you next week
Those dang oilers can cause you all kinds of hell and it's not something you can check easily without a partial tear down.
I always enjoy your videos. I have a 2007 Road King with a stage 1, and since I’ve been watching your videos I know everything to look out for with this particular year. 28k miles and no issues yet!
Keep the awesome content coming and ride safe brother!
Very cool, I have the same year, model and mileage and no issues either. A great plus for the '07 TC 96 is the hydraulic cam chain tensioner. Supposedly more reliable and knowing the way it works it stands to reason.
I love my shovelhead oil system & S&S pump with good ole dump on ground system. Rarely have any oil coming out the breather. My twin cam I had to vent to catch can , and I put a dipstick breather on it and run 1/2 qt lower than recommended
S&S pump makes a big difference! When you fill a twin cam or sportster you want to be no more than 3/4 full when hot on the dip stick. You go to full and you'll be getting oil out of the air cleaner.
2017 CVO limited, ESP warranty put 6k replacing my bottom end all the way to heads because of sumping. Push the issue, measure the amount of oil in your crankcase. You are your best advocate.
Most folks have no idea what is going on with these bikes ..They take it to the dealer and hope, trust them to fix what the problem is ... When the bike just got hot and stopped running, or a lifer fails and takes out a bottom end. Oil pump ect .. i have zero faith in stock harley engines for the most part . Thanks for sharing
Stock Harley engines have literally ran for millions of miles. But Jim knows best.
Yeah when I did the cam chain upgrade I believe the oil pump o rings were leaking 17 years . Installed new o rings in screaming eagle kit .
Tank reads full now always - 👌👍✊🏻
No sumping issues with my 1949 Panhead or my 1996 Road King. I did have issues now and then with my 1968 Sportster until I rebuilt the oil pump, replace the check ball and spring. That cured it.
I swear it wasn't really ever a issue until the oil pump went from remote to internal.
@@GixxerFoo you know, you are probably correct and that assumption.
All Harleys sump . If it is a shovel or early evo it is caused by the check valve ball not seating but regardless there is always oil left in crankcase if it is a Twinkie pull the plug on the bottom of every one should be no more then 7 ounces if there's more you have an oil pump problem if it's a M8 motor well you should expect it to dump ! Regardless the oil pumps always leave oil in the case ! When I'm gonna split cases I always turn the cases upsidedown over night I'm never disappointed there is always a shit load of oil in the pan !
I have an 18 FLHXSE and a 21 FLHXS. I had the fan assisted oil cooler installed on both bikes and replaced the CVO’s oil pump with the latest 20 version. I sleep very well.
Touring/ Dyna models now have the oil tank/pan UNDERNEATH The transmission so as to prevent gravity overcoming check valves(of sorts) not really an issue cept with softtails being overfilled and xl models somewhat.
The external oil pump on the motors from 1935 to 2000 were so simple and reliable, so they had to get rid of it, huh?
They could fill the crankcase when the check-ball to seat on the original cast iron pumps up till 1967 could wear and allow the oil tank to drain into the motor. Especially with the old 60 to 70wt oil when cold. In 1968 they came out with an aluminum body pump with a flat end check valve.
Cost, it was cheaper to put it in the bike and on the external oil pump bikes the cover actually supported the cam. To reduce noise supposedly they went to the support plate, internal pump and that reduced detectable noise. Allegedly lol.
THEY GET RID of ANYTHING that WORKS, LOOK at the GEAR DRIVE EVO. WAS PROBLEM FREE. NOT ANYMORE
They also always leaked.
Your wrong ..in1968 they had alum.body that still used a 3/8ball bearing...the flat bottom plunger u refer is pressure relieve valve...don't spew untrue info and confuse all the unknowing...geez!
@@theoneracer2716 Never said anything about like that. Besides I have a '68 FLH and know it introduced the aluminum body oil pump. But like most, I replaced it with an S&S.
Nice shelf upgrade! Haha. No sumping issues with my 1993 Blockhead
That remote oil pump worked damn well, they had dumping figured out on the shovel. It was when that oil pump went in the engine when the problem started.
Smh! You figure after ALL These years the engineers would have figured all this out!! Anyway have a nice evening and weekend! 💥
It all comes down to cost, l'll do a breakdown video on why Harley doesn't fix a lot of issues.
Slow acceleration and sumping into the aircleaner are normal signs of HDs in my experience. SV1000S, DL650, and KLR650 have no such issues. They work perfectly. No issues. Looking for a 1st gen Hayabusa to ride next, after a turbo installation.
One thing they pump so many out are trying too get off the assembly lines is the main issue and HD changes suppliers like changing underwear maybe if they stick to the best supplier and cutting quality over a dollar they’d be better off r us the customers would be but noo they know they have people drooling to get one and the other thing u can do a lot more to a HD but I like all bikes really don’t matter it’s whatever u like the most
@@patrickhollis5332
You are correct. I almost drooled about the PanaAmerica with it's new liquid cooled engine and high tech. Until it dry started on the showroom floor. Hearing that rattle on a new bike keeps me elsewhere. Hell, I have more than enough bikes that had never done that. Just keep riding my 7 old ones.
Good looking out man. I didn’t know any of those checks.
Hears another one and there's a risky plug on the twin cam. It ain't meant to come out and it red loctited in, but if you do manage to get it out you can measure the oil that comes out of the sump. Not recommended though.
Harley-Davidson tractor trailer...Wheels Though Time Maggie Valley, NC.
That is such a cool piece and one of a kind! I was super happy to see they acquired it and it's not going to rot in a field somewhere.
I live close by and see it often. This weekend there having their 20th anniversary celebration so I be riding over to that. Pending thunder showers.
Great video...Like always 👌
Thank you, l appreciate the support!
I have that Harley model 1200S in the second picture. It is exactly like that one same color and all. I have never seen another one on the road in twenty years.
What year? I've got a 96. Wish I had twin plug model but that came out in 97. I just took a beautiful ride to Saratoga on it today. They're great bikes
@@paulfiore7083 It is a 2001 I bought it brand new from military overseas sales when I was stationed in Puerto Rico. It came with 10 to 1 compression and upgraded cams from the factory. I had to re-jet the carb to make it run right.
I’ve been around this channel for a while now and I gotta ask, what’s up with the fart at the end of every video?
Just something that started early on as a joke, l left it out once and got a avalanche of questions that the fart was gone.
@@GixxerFoo is it an actual real fart? 😂
He already removed the shelf, if the fart goes, I’m out. You’ve been warned.
@@GixxerFoo typical 🤣
@@freebehindbars8654 I loved that bent shelf. Was waiting on it to fall at any time.
Don't ride harleys, don't like harleys, still watched this and enjoyed it. Respect.l
Man, I'm surprised you didn't bring up the bad oil pump from Harley. I just had mine changed and the scavenging ability of the new pump is much better along with the new seal behind the pump. My 2017 114 was sumping about 8 ounces out of the crank sensor after a ride. Now with a new pump, a new cam of course, and venting the dipstick, it seems we have got it taken care of. Yes, I am getting oil residue on the filter at the end of the venting hose which proves excessive crankcase pressure, to me anyway. I have the hose off the dipstick ran straight up and straight back. It's not pouring oil, but there is plenty of residue on that filter. Maybe I'll put another catch can on that hose. Has anyone did that? Please let me know if you have and what your experiences is with that. Thanks Bro, great info as always!
My bonnie wet sumped blew smoke for a mile or so. Shovel. That had a big chuck on the ground from the breather on start up. I put the breather pipe on the chain. And told people it was chain oiler lol. My evo had the filter but seemed ok my Twin cam so far so good “ touch wood “ just a base in the throttle body. But only done about 20,000 miles so still new. lol
I remember on my Sportster I had to start it for a short period to get an accurate oil reading but with the Dyna the oil pan is actually under the engine and trans so it never drains back into the engine while the bike sits.
Yeah the newer A motor is a really nice design. Where you see issues there is if the oil pump doesn't scavenge to the top of the engine correctly and oil backs up in the crank case itself.
Dyna - The best Harley line ever.
@@hawkdsl Some thing's I like better about the Dyna that I own now, and some things I did like better about the Sportster.
My Dyna would be perfect if the cam chest used the same gear driven quad-cam set up as a Sportster with straight pushrods and if the drive belt was on the other side like a Sportster, not trapped behind the primary.
I also thought my Sportster Evo had a little better sound than my Twin Cam Dyna.
@@GixxerFoo y
When the dealer looks at the sumping problem, sometimes they install a small breather tube to fix it. Also there was some talk of another fix in that the clutch hollow tube was replaced with another one making me think that is why Harley went back to the cable clutch?
Your talking about transmission transfer issue. Has nothing to do with sumping. Transfer and sumping are two totally different and unrelated issues. But thanks to HD's horrible engineering and production it's common to have both issues at the same time.
@@wonderwing5139 Thanks for the explanation, I thought there was some kind of oil transfer with the clutch tube. Just one more thing we must put up with to be a Harley owner I suppose. 👍
As my pappy used to say,”cheer up, it’s like this for awhile, then it gets worse.”
👍 it's not all bad, dry sump systems work pretty well. Honestly while it theoretically a possibility on Twin Cams and Sportsters it's pretty rare. Unless you've piled on a lot of miles, but M8'S well they do have some issues.
I enjoy your videos because you present a lot of intelligent verbal content, no screaming banshees in the background, and current issues with all models of Harleys.
One issue I’ve had with my TC88 is the linkage loosening at the spline end of the shaft coming out of the transmission. Any tighten or JB weld failed to tighten it. Only a removal of the primary and disassemble of the transmission corrected the problem. I am wondering if you or any of your followers experienced the same problem.
I’ve got some great pics and videos of the whole process
My evo will puke oil on the driveway if it sits a week. Been happening for years. I Think the problem is the ball check valve in the pump. If the ball seating surface is worn or irregular it leaks by. taking it apart and lapping the seat would probably fix it. but I choose to just pull the vent hose out from the air intake and run it to catch bottle, start it and wait, some times I have to shut down and start again because it fooled me and puked all over the engine and ground. you can hear it start gurgling through the breather hose and thats when it happens. put back the hose and im on my way.
It for sure sounds like it's the check valve, oil pumps for the Evo are pretty inexpensive and not super hard to swap. I'd just swap it out and be done, could even rebuild the old one in case you ever need it.
@@GixxerFoo good advice thanks
Welcome to pre-93 evos...
As always great info brother thank you ✌️
Thank you! I really appreciate the support!
@@GixxerFoo appreciate the knowledge brother
I created the sumping issue by filling too much oil when the engine was cold. Started pushing oil out the air intake.
Oh dang, yeah you wanna be about 3/4 on the dipstick when hot cause if you actually fill to the full mark when hot they will puke out the head breathers.
It’s almost like Internal combustion engines haven’t been produced for over 120 years, why is Harley treating each engine like it’s a new creation? Why are they still using this crap design?
Well I might evolution motor I have an s&s oil pump that pushes 45 lb of oil pressure through the whole engine and I don't have a problem at all
Way to go on the sponsorship!!! Congrats buddy!
I let my Sportster sit and it was very low on oil and so I topped it up and on a ride it pumped out oily oil from the crankcase into the oil tank which couldn't hold it and it puked oil all over the belt drive which sucked up the oil and started to disintegrate I started losing teeth off the Bell Drive but I managed to make it home without pushing the bike
Off-topic question. When building a performance Harley how much horsepower can a 2000 Harley Sportster (Buell) engine be made to produce? How does a Sportster case and crankshaft compare to a Evo case and crankshaft for strength? TYIA.
Wud up Foo! Make like Bobby Brown and ain’t nobody sumpin around! 😂 I’m sorry, Wake and bake Saturday morning and you covered it, sumping es no bueno.
😆👍 It's possible on any Harley, if you get some miles on there just be on the lookout for it!
Thank you 🙏
Do you have any video on changing lifters on a EVO 91& up
Hi, I have a problem with my 1968 Harley Sportster slumping oil in crankcase after sitting for long periods of time, which has happened often. It won't start with the electric starter, as it isn't working and battery is dead. When the oil hasn't slumped, it will start after 3-4 kicks. Would I be correct to say that if I were able to drain the excess oil from the bottom of the crankcase, it would start up as usual? I don't know if I can drain the oil from bottom of crankcase, due to the year of motorcycle. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated!!
EDIT “Good” Stuff! Sorry about that.
Thank you! We appreciate your support!
H-D engines really seem like budget built engines.
It's disappointing to see them go backwards on quality all in the name of speed and cost.
Always great content
Sorry, didn't finish my ealier question. Do you have a link for the adapter for this scanner for the Harley?
The FX9000 is for cars and trucks, it doesn't have adapters or software for motorcycles.
I have a 91 FXSTC (softtail custom) and the longer i let it sit, the more oil i blow out the breather. I'm talking a very large puddle. Maybe 2-3 cups
A friend tried to replace cam chain tensioners on his 2001 TC by himself. He's not the best of mechanics and I wasn't around to help, even though I've never been in a TC cam chest. After the job was done, he calls me to tell me there's oil blowing out the breathers whenever he starts it up.
If he removed his top end and replaced his breathers, it is entirely possible he installed them wrong. It goes filter, base plate, umbrella valve inserted in base plate, then top plate. I've seen people go filter, umbrella, base, then top. That will just spew oil out of the breathers.
My 86 FXR has to be started atleast every 2 weeks otherwise oil will blow out of the crankcase breather filter.
Allways take your advice thanks buddy
Any time! I appreciate the support on the channel!
you ever address primary leaks and how to fix?
I haven't covered primary or transmission issues, but that's a good topic!
Damn… my ‘14 103 doesn’t have an external oil tank.. but the crank case does have a drop down oil “pan,” as it’d be called on a V8
I have a 91 EVO every time it's sits for a long period of time it sumps oil out of the air filter is that normal , I mean every time, should I replace the oil pump
Out of your air filter? It is normal if the bike sits for a while for oil to drain from the tank into the sump. Once you get the bike started and running it should clear up. If it only does it after it's sat for a while that would be alright. Also make sure once it's hot when you check the oil you are about 3/4 full and not at the full mark.
Great content, very informative love your channel
Can sumping issues cause catastrophic transmission failure? I have a 2019 Road King 114 that recently blew the transmission. The engine felt very hot the last ride before total failure. Last time it felt that hot, I broke the plastic intake manifold.
If it's overfilled or carrying fluid over which has been an issue on the M8 it can have the same effect as sumping. Those gears trying to plow through all the oil can put a lot of stress on them, pressure builds, seal give out, it can get nasty.
That was probably from oil transfer from transmission to the primary,no oil left in the transmission
@@GixxerFooyou are 100 % wrong they is no way an overfilled engine oil system can blow thru crankseal to primary chamber area then into transmission ...u don't know what your talking about...talking out the side of your neck...
Best HD advice on UA-cam. Thanks.
What do you think about using a oil flush on the twin cam?
It's not a bad idea honesty to help clear some oil out of the system. There's a lot of people that do it to make sure they get as much old oil as possible out.
I do it with scavenger every other oil change you will be surprised of how much oil is still in the system after you get done draining it , specially if you have a oil cooler
🛑🛑 Happy 4th of July Brother. 😀👍 🧨
Thank you, you too! Ride safe this weekend!
Are you related to Project Farm? You sound almost just like him!
When checking oil level can you leave the bike on the kickstand?
Depends on model and year. Some are upright and some on kickstand
I’m having trouble with my dip stick blowing out of my oil tank do to pressure buildup. Is this part of dumping? I can’t even ride the bike oil gets all over side of bike and rear brakes.
That's absolutely a sign of it and the pressure build up in your crank case! What year is your M8? You could for sure use a vented dipstick, you've got some serious crankcase pressure build up.
2017 Heritage twin cam not a m8 is this an easy fix?
I heard you mention poor gas mileage. I have an 01 FXDX 88 CI with S&S .510 cam, SE oil pump and cam chest with S&S cam gear drive and 42 mm Mikuni carb but I consistently get only 36.5 mpg. Only has 24K. Could this be sign of sumping problem? It runs great
Mikuni carbs sometimes are notorious for drinking fuel, l doubt you're having a sumping issues unless you have oil disappearing on the dipstick and reappearing later. The bike wouldn't be running good at all if it were sumping. I would point the finger at the carb, they make some awesome power but sometimes they are thirsty.
@@GixxerFoo Thank you! I feel better already!
Absolutely not. I had the exact set up at stage 2 before going to stage 4 and I was averaging pretty much the same as you in a 2002 Night Train, even with my 2002 Electra Glide Std. at stage 2, same.
My Mikuni is set up at 25/ 162.5/ 70 and slide in stock position( live in Boston). 95” forged 9:5.1 flat tops, S&S 79cc Super Stock heads, Trask Mystfree breathers (game changers), S&S rockers (std), S&S push rods, S&S lifters, SE plate and pump, ( I’ve run Fueling as well, no difference) , S&S 510 cams, she puts down over 100/100 and gets about 35mpg.
I’ve ran different cams in this combo like the TW6, good cam, grossly overrated and went back to the S&S 510, it’s a much smoother, linear cam with longer legs and this is in a bagger.
@@getoffmygrass6974 thanks very much for the info. I'm in Upstate NY. I plan on eventually going to 95" when I need top end but I'm really happy with the 88 . My bike is very light, about 650 lbs., so I'm not feeling a lack of power
@@paulfiore7083You have a great combo going and you can grow with that cam. Also, when you go 95”, don’t be afraid to take that cam up to 10:1 (static), she’ll outrun 107’s and keep right up with the 114’s, with ease. Good luck.
Does the ancel fx 9000 come with user friendly instructions?
Yes! It has some awesome instructions and excellent support!
Based on the comments, there seems a bit of confusion between carryover and sumping.
This is why I wet sump engines are the defacto standard with every damn thing these days except for niche high-powered race cars. And that's certainly doesn't describe a push rod engine of any sort. still having a wet sump in this day and age makes no sense whatsoever.
Is the Screamin' Eagle Pro High Volume Oil Pump & Cam Support Plate Kit a good investment (or how necessary is it ) on a fully stock HD M8 107?
Please and Thank You.
98 fxdl oil pan is on bottom how the heck can it sump. Why does it read different hotorcold?ty
Could that be happening and why engine temp is so high on M8’s 107 and 131’s?
High temperature is a sign of sumping, the crank plowing through oil in the sump will generate some heat.
@@GixxerFoo I’m running a 131 and I’m @340 riding
@@Heavy69Metal
Wow is that oil temp or engine temp? You probably should invest In cooling fans
@@scrumthebum2451 engine temp oil is about 262 and this is on a 131. I have the oil cooler with the fan. Also running love jugs mighty-mites too
@@GixxerFoo damn. I’m running a 131 now my engine temps are 320-340 plus and oil at the dip stick reads at times @262 plus and I have a cooler and it has a fan on it as well and using mighty-mites by love jugs and still this high.
Oh come on man they make as much power as a Briggs & Stratton lawn mower engine what else could you expect from Harley-Davidson
Stock 107 is about 75 hp and 90 ftlbs at the wheel. That must be a hell of a lawn mower.
Too much crank pressure from worn rings? I could see excessive leak down
Is it a good idea to get a Vented Dipstick on a Milwaukee 8? Dealer told me to just fill until Dipstick reads 2 marks below full.
Oil pump ? check ball and spring ?
Where is the tank on a dyna
Dyna and touring, the A motor will have a oil pan with basically a windage tray which keeps the oil down in the pan. The oil should stay down in that pan away from the crank, but if it's sumping it builds up in the crank case and isn't returned to the pan.
Hey Gixxer, quick question. My dad has a 2000 Fatboy and it sat for a while. No oil in the tank. I drained the oil, and then put what the book called for. It seems I put too much (didn’t change the oil filter or know at the time how much stays in the motor). He started it later and after a couple of minutes, the oil dipstick flew out and oil went everywhere. Possible to drain some oil out and run it again? Anything else to check?
Old Indian chiefs are notorious for oil sumping ,too much clearance between oil pump plunger and pump body .my 46 chief would drain the entire oil tank into engine cases ,Panheads forever
Oh damn... hell that sounds like the new M8'S lol. Shovels had the same issue, took a few years to get it sorted out.
@@GixxerFoo Harley 45's had sumping issues ,with the chiefs max clearance between plunger and body is .0005 ideal clearance .00025
Keep up your informative videos ,thank you ,jp
New sub! Liked 🙏✌️😀
Why not just put the correct amount of oil in the crankcase? Duh
Well you actually don't want to be at the full mark hot, 3/4 is the best place to be.
You have a great 4 July
Thank you, you too! Get out and do some riding!
New sub ! Liked 🌙☀️🎃😊😂😊
BOY Makes me want to go buy a Harley !! NEVER NEVER
Harleys really are not bad, yes there are potential issues but they don't happen on every motor.
Why is there a photo of my bike (on the lift)???? do you normally just jack photos out the Internet Internet?
We use any and all photos for videos available out there, I also use photos from viewer submissions as well as ones taken during travels.
Don't for get to hit the like button . 👍👍👍👍👍👀👂
👍
Harley Davidson were crap back in the seventies and still crap today
I'm here for the fart only
How did i get here...
😎👍
Maybe I will sell and buy a Honda 😂
remedy #1
don't buy a harley.
👌👍🤘😎🇦🇺🍻
Come on bro , what about the crank case breather check ball ???? Your not starting to slip on us a little are you??!!?
Come on Gix , stop with the big adds bro!!
Big ads? I'm not sponsored by anyone.