Damn, the more I watch your channel the more I'm worried about my almost 10 years old felt road bike. Maybe it's time to convince the wife that in our best interest is to buy me a new bike :)
I'm still riding my Mercian ( King of Mercia ) after 37 years. The frame was built in 1980 with Reynolds 531 db tubing. The things I've replaced over the years are = New wheels built with the Campag hubs from the old ones, new chain-set with new 5 speed block, clipless pedals, new brakes, different saddles. The frame is still excellent and though it is a bit heavier than my carbon Cannondale Synapse, is still a wonderful bike to ride though I have to say I'm small in stature and light in weight so I suppose my bikes don't suffer the same stresses as they would if I was a heavier and more aggressive rider. Thanks for the video.
Steel frames are almost immortal! Got 1978 Dave Moulton but with subtle mods to run 10 speed cassette. Friction shifters work great with 1973 Campagnolo derailleur. Ramped and profiled teeth on the cassette make it shift like a modern bike. I found a way to get this to work with 6 speed frame spacing and milled the crank spider to work with modern chain. Have wheels with freewheel and they work also.
This channel should be named "How I killed second hand carbon bike market"... and Raoul should get some medal for that, because seeing this, quite a few bones, maybe even lives could have been saved.
I had a Cervelo T1 track bike and found a crack in the steerer tube. This was disturbing considering the amount of torque I was placing on the steerer whenever I dropped into the sprinter’s lane in the velodrome. I had noticed that the frontend seemed unstable. Here’s the clincher: I asked Cervelo about their steerer tube assemblies and they said it was a common occurrence with their bikes.
I watch these kind of videos every once in a while just to keep proving to myself that the bike industry basically created carbon bikes because the aluminium steel and titanium bikes were to reliable and people were not buying enough its really sad to see people spend this kind of money to get ripped off its truly insane
I think it is more about what the market ask for. Rarely I heard someone says, "I want to upgrade my bike to a stronger one even though it is a bit heavier", no, most people would prefer 100g less weight, even if it would compromise a couple of years of the bike life where they likely already bought a new one long before then. It is an expensive hobby and totally one of the worst investment wise.
As bitchin as carbon is,and for sure its the thing to use now..............I can buy a 16.7 lb Reynolds 853 bike for about 2400.00 with the latest good shimano stuff,good wheels,etc....no worries about carbon aging out or shit production issues. It surpirses me they can bring a steel bike it in at that weight and price. But they do
Could you make a video on carbon forks w/ alloy steerer tube? I have a specialized allez with that type of fork, interested to hear your thoughts on the design, common failures etc.
Hi there!!! I would do the same question. I have an Allez Sprint Comp 2017, Carbon fork and seat post. He could tell us how to identify if there is something wrong with the fork...to avoid accident . Hope he give a reply. Safe ride to you.
@@LuescherTeknik Thanks for your prompt reply. I have read that aluminum frames last 5 to 10 years or a lifetime. These two outlooks are very different. Assuming one takes good care of the frame, which outlook is more likely?
I have not seen a video of you discussing Road Conditions and vibrations through the carbon frame and forks. How much vibration and bumps can these forks take through the resin and carbon layers. Is there a chance that these cracks develop over time based on road conditions? North American roads ( Canada a big one) are just nasty for Carbon bikes, so Carbon bikes here don't last too long.
I have a Reynolds ouzo pro fork that feels soft or flexible when I push the down on the handlebars. Is that normal? I removed it from the frame and secured it in a vice (safely) and I didn't feel any flex.
It depends on your size/weight, crashes, luck, quality of the bike, how light the frame/bike is for it’s quality and your riding style. Some riders are rough and others smooth. A smooth 220lb/100kg rider is going to brake less stuff than a rough 140lb/64kg rider. A decent frame should last a minimum of 25,000mi/40,000km. I’ve got a few road bikes with 50,000 miles/80,000km and another with 90,000+ miles/145,000+ km which is still going strong that I haven’t babied. Also standing up to pedal stresses your frame far more than staying seated. Every 2000 miles/3200km or so I’d clean the bike and look it over at the joints, cable stops, holes for the water bottle cages…. Also if the bike suddenly feels more flexible or a new creak develops I recommend that you investigate it and figure out what it is.
macgrooven if he is the original owner. If not then they won’t cover it. I had a problem with an older trek but original shop is gone new dealer said without original receipt I was out of luck. I don’t remember option on registering the bike in 1998.
Can you please do a video on what to look out for in older women too. Like prolapses, bad teeth, hair loss. My misses has a v nasty crack mate so I've got some experience... 😎
Hey Raoul, came here from Shane's channel. Do you think aluminum frames are suitable for indoor trainer use or do aluminum frames fatigue too quickly when used on trainers?
Some aluminum frames work great for indoor trainers. The main thing about how an indoor trainer stresses a bike frame is the rear triangle - especially the seatstays. Lots of “high performance” road frames have stupidly skinny seatstays with big chainstays with the idea that the thin light wimpy seatstays will allow a smoother ride. If the seatstays look questionably wimpy then they likely are. If the bike is going to be exclusively used for indoor trainer than a failure is less of a concern because you won’t have cars + speed when it goes bad. If the seatstays seem bigger diameter than normal than you’re fine.
thre only only best bikes in early 2000 were giant tcr composite a have to be as collector as first slooping bike good climber but stiffer need time to enjoy it , scott CR1 awsome bike and probably the best bike in 2005 look 585 team a toy very easy to use in climb those 3 were the top of the bike with time vxr afetr cannondale came with tghe supersix.. trek is a good value but without personnality the oclv 5500 in 95 96 was a blast but the shape of the frame is old style and not focus climbing. few other mythic frame were bmc slc01 or one of my dream the orca from orbea. Colnago and pinarello have not done interesting bike at this time or perhaps the specialized roubaix with gel insert
For every Ouzo fork that looks like the one in this video, I’d wager there are a hundred+ that look perfectly fine and road-worthy. The key takeaway for me isn’t “old carbon will kill you therefore you must buy a new fork after every ride,” but rather, “inspect your older frames and forks regularly for signs of damage.” And despite all the ink spilled over catastrophic failures of carbon parts, in the vast majority of cases a failing part will crack/exhibit ‘softness’ rather than instantly disintegrate under you and throw your face at the pavement-as evidenced by the frames and forks shown here, which likely had accrued many miles AFTER those worrisome signs appeared. In keeping with the old car analogy, older bikes can be perfectly safe to ride-they just require a bit more diligence in their upkeep.
Still riding my 2001 Trek 5200 no worries. I did check out a new domane and noticed how much thinner the tubes felt (carbon layers?) could squeeze them in with fingers, the 5200 tubing feels like it has thicker layers can't squeeze these tubes. IDK ride it till it breaks is my moto. Great info but your scaring the hell outta folks lol.
Cyber Trucker Road Show carbon will fail. I mean it's just a matter of time. We're talking about a 20yr old frame! I say keep the bike if you love it. I understand because I don't sell my frames. But I'd get a new one if I were you for most of my rides...
1996 Trek 5200,going strong. Did replace the original fork for safety. They say that OCLV was over engineered for strength. The Trek Domane is sexy but those thinner tubes don't last? 🤔
@@IronHorsey3 I'd replaced my fork as well but for a lighter Reynolds full carbon. That and a few other full carbon upgrades the bike weighs in just over 7.5kg. I did sell it 6mos ago to someone who is getting to ride it more than I have lately. He loves it ! We made a deal if he gets tired of it, it comes back to me.
Got a set of Easton ec90 forks must be 12years old what do I need to look for safety wise? Plus also have a set of spinegy Carbon wheels with alloy rim what to look for with these?
Scrub that they are ec70 forks and also ec70 post. The wheels are spinegy stealth with stainless steel spokes the deep dish ones with alloy brake surface. I be far they have done very little ks less than 5000km has done less 300k in last 6 year
I would need to assess them here to know more on if they are damaged or not. Having said that I have seen the older parts fail due to break down of the resin and also growth of flaws over time. The Spinergy wheels with metal spokes were more reliable than the full carbon ones, I would not use the old full carbon ones.
Luescher Teknik would love to have you look at them but I am in the uk. This really puts me off buying a second hand carbon anything ,as it seems there's no way of knowing if what your buying is a lemon! Is there going to be a massive problem with carbon parts in land full due it it being so fragile and its lack of recyclability ?
Hi I had a bad crash on sunday , 4 broken ribs and a concunsion ,anyways the bike is a issaac pascal 2008 monocote frame .I cant find a crack nowhere on the frame , what do you suggest to do ,scrap the frame or send it for inspection? Thanks in advance.
Hello master, I have a question for you, what is your opinion about specialized frame tarmac Sl4 2019 that is not sold to 2020? Thanks. this is the bike: www.specialized.com/es/es/mens-tarmac-sl4-sport/p/157772 Please I wait yor answer, it means a lot to me. Best regards.
Dru Jones how much difference is there in cf bikes? If you know what to look and listen for, i.e. have some type of clue about bike maintenance, there’s little nuggets of info in each video.
Damn, the more I watch your channel the more I'm worried about my almost 10 years old felt road bike. Maybe it's time to convince the wife that in our best interest is to buy me a new bike :)
That’s a 2010 madone. That’s my bike. Raoul has scared me off the road like jaws kept me from going in the water!
I'm still riding my Mercian ( King of Mercia ) after 37 years. The frame was built in 1980 with Reynolds 531 db tubing. The things I've replaced over the years are = New wheels built with the Campag hubs from the old ones, new chain-set with new 5 speed block, clipless pedals, new brakes, different saddles. The frame is still excellent and though it is a bit heavier than my carbon Cannondale Synapse, is still a wonderful bike to ride though I have to say I'm small in stature and light in weight so I suppose my bikes don't suffer the same stresses as they would if I was a heavier and more aggressive rider. Thanks for the video.
Steel frames are almost immortal! Got 1978 Dave Moulton but with subtle mods to run 10 speed cassette. Friction shifters work great with 1973 Campagnolo derailleur. Ramped and profiled teeth on the cassette make it shift like a modern bike. I found a way to get this to work with 6 speed frame spacing and milled the crank spider to work with modern chain. Have wheels with freewheel and they work also.
Rust never sleeps
Steel is real.
This channel should be named "How I killed second hand carbon bike market"... and Raoul should get some medal for that, because seeing this, quite a few bones, maybe even lives could have been saved.
and new
If it was an issue, then yes
I love how deeply interested you are in the things you cover on your channel, makes it quite enjoyable to learn from you!
I had a Cervelo T1 track bike and found a crack in the steerer tube. This was disturbing considering the amount of torque I was placing on the steerer whenever I dropped into the sprinter’s lane in the velodrome. I had noticed that the frontend seemed unstable. Here’s the clincher: I asked Cervelo about their steerer tube assemblies and they said it was a common occurrence with their bikes.
Glad you found the problem before it became a catastrophic failure. Amazing response from Cervelo!
I watch these kind of videos every once in a while just to keep proving to myself that the bike industry basically created carbon bikes because the aluminium steel and titanium bikes were to reliable and people were not buying enough its really sad to see people spend this kind of money to get ripped off its truly insane
I think it is more about what the market ask for. Rarely I heard someone says, "I want to upgrade my bike to a stronger one even though it is a bit heavier", no, most people would prefer 100g less weight, even if it would compromise a couple of years of the bike life where they likely already bought a new one long before then. It is an expensive hobby and totally one of the worst investment wise.
Well done, it is so good to talk about bicycle frame fatigue. I have a aluminium frame bike that is about seven years old. I will check it.
I dont worry to much about frames but more on forks
Me too my Bianchi Infinito C2C........whats in a name:-)
It says nanotech...that means no Flaws, voids or wrinkles i hope;-)
Just found your content, it's fantastic man keep it up!
As bitchin as carbon is,and for sure its the thing to use now..............I can buy a 16.7 lb Reynolds 853 bike for about 2400.00 with the latest good shimano stuff,good wheels,etc....no worries about carbon aging out or shit production issues. It surpirses me they can bring a steel bike it in at that weight and price. But they do
I'm not flying anywhere if I go to Africa
Could you make a video on carbon forks w/ alloy steerer tube? I have a specialized allez with that type of fork, interested to hear your thoughts on the design, common failures etc.
Hi there!!! I would do the same question. I have an Allez Sprint Comp 2017, Carbon fork and seat post. He could tell us how to identify if there is something wrong with the fork...to avoid accident . Hope he give a reply. Safe ride to you.
What about older aluminum bike frames? They do not use resin so what should I look out for?
They will crack from fatigue.
@@LuescherTeknik Thanks for your prompt reply. I have read that aluminum frames last 5 to 10 years or a lifetime. These two outlooks are very different. Assuming one takes good care of the frame, which outlook is more likely?
An old car never threatened to throw me out of the car and slam me on the ground at 30MPH. :)
Makes me wonder if I ever want a CF frame or fork. Having to constantly be worried about integrity of the ride below me is scary.
I agree. I’ll stick with metals: steel, aluminum, and titanium.
So how often should you replace your carbon bike?
Reginald Scot, that’s an interesting question. I heard aluminium frames every 5 years and handlebars every year... is that correct?
Isn't that a bit over the top?
That’s only what i heard, I’m not sure if i believe that.
What a load of bull! People are still riding alloy bars from the 60s!
I’m riding a 2008 Giant tcr no problem 🙂
I ride a Colnago C-40. I haven't had any issues and it's the only carbon bike I've ever owned. Kind of scary riding these carbon bikes.
I have not seen a video of you discussing Road Conditions and vibrations through the carbon frame and forks. How much vibration and bumps can these forks take through the resin and carbon layers. Is there a chance that these cracks develop over time based on road conditions? North American roads ( Canada a big one) are just nasty for Carbon bikes, so Carbon bikes here don't last too long.
A lot of older frames don't have tapered steerer tubes either, so that could potentially make the steerer more likely to fail at the crown
Great video, without access to an expert to assess a frame, is visual inspection sufficient?
Great video. So what can be repaired and what can't? I assume there are some general rules of thumb?
Thanks so much for the awesome info. Love the channel!
In the USA the median age of cars has increased every year since at least the early 90s as their quality improves. Bicycles however, hard to say.
thanks to import cars taking over the domestic market.
Totally agree with you about carbon , Ally , titanium but not steel ,steel is real
Awesome!
What’s your opinion on adhesive lifespan in tube to lug frames?
My ten year old Look 595 Ultra is still going strong. ☺
Gary Purkeljc apart from that stress riser under the paint somewhere …
Mine failed 2 months ago. Can't complain though. It had a million kilometers and abused it like it deserved to be.
Interesting 👍
I have a Reynolds ouzo pro fork that feels soft or flexible when I push the down on the handlebars. Is that normal?
I removed it from the frame and secured it in a vice (safely) and I didn't feel any flex.
Can a NOS frame from the 90s that's been sitting on the shelf all these years degrade?
Technically yes due to oxygen along with how much humidity is in the air.
I have a question: When(in terms of time/km) should i think about replacing a frame? I race my bike on classics and crits.
It depends on your size/weight, crashes, luck, quality of the bike, how light the frame/bike is for it’s quality and your riding style. Some riders are rough and others smooth. A smooth 220lb/100kg rider is going to brake less stuff than a rough 140lb/64kg rider. A decent frame should last a minimum of 25,000mi/40,000km. I’ve got a few road bikes with 50,000 miles/80,000km and another with 90,000+ miles/145,000+ km which is still going strong that I haven’t babied. Also standing up to pedal stresses your frame far more than staying seated. Every 2000 miles/3200km or so I’d clean the bike and look it over at the joints, cable stops, holes for the water bottle cages…. Also if the bike suddenly feels more flexible or a new creak develops I recommend that you investigate it and figure out what it is.
Shouldn’t that be covered by warranty? I would assume that voids would be viewed as a manufacturing defect.
macgrooven if he is the original owner. If not then they won’t cover it. I had a problem with an older trek but original shop is gone new dealer said without original receipt I was out of luck. I don’t remember option on registering the bike in 1998.
You know the "lifetime" frame warranty? It rarely actually is.
That is pretty alarming that a well known and trusted brand has such bad construction technique and material choice
So did they warranty that? Should they have if claimed? -U10
The "bubling" effect happens also to aluminium?
Can you please do a video on what to look out for in older women too. Like prolapses, bad teeth, hair loss. My misses has a v nasty crack mate so I've got some experience... 😎
Hey Raoul, came here from Shane's channel. Do you think aluminum frames are suitable for indoor trainer use or do aluminum frames fatigue too quickly when used on trainers?
Some aluminum frames work great for indoor trainers. The main thing about how an indoor trainer stresses a bike frame is the rear triangle - especially the seatstays. Lots of “high performance” road frames have stupidly skinny seatstays with big chainstays with the idea that the thin light wimpy seatstays will allow a smoother ride. If the seatstays look questionably wimpy then they likely are. If the bike is going to be exclusively used for indoor trainer than a failure is less of a concern because you won’t have cars + speed when it goes bad. If the seatstays seem bigger diameter than normal than you’re fine.
thre only only best bikes in early 2000 were giant tcr composite a have to be as collector as first slooping bike good climber but stiffer need time to enjoy it , scott CR1 awsome bike and probably the best bike in 2005 look 585 team a toy very easy to use in climb those 3 were the top of the bike with time vxr afetr cannondale came with tghe supersix.. trek is a good value but without personnality the oclv 5500 in 95 96 was a blast but the shape of the frame is old style and not focus climbing. few other mythic frame were bmc slc01 or one of my dream the orca from orbea. Colnago and pinarello have not done interesting bike at this time or perhaps the specialized roubaix with gel insert
Have a 96 Trek 5200. Reliable and beautiful.
Couldn't understand most of what you wrote. Is English your second language?
Ok, I will not get on African airplanes anymore.
Hard to believe that that frame is that old really the design from trek was very good back then pity about the quality.
Now I’m a bit worried about my 10 year old full carbon LeMond (build by Trek).
@RollinRat thank you for the valuable information. I appreciate it very much.
Can you give us recommended nm ratings for stem headset etc
I ride SEVEN Ti
I ride MOOTS Ti
I ride TITUS Ti
All 4 of my bikes have
Reynolds ouzo forks
For every Ouzo fork that looks like the one in this video, I’d wager there are a hundred+ that look perfectly fine and road-worthy. The key takeaway for me isn’t “old carbon will kill you therefore you must buy a new fork after every ride,” but rather, “inspect your older frames and forks regularly for signs of damage.” And despite all the ink spilled over catastrophic failures of carbon parts, in the vast majority of cases a failing part will crack/exhibit ‘softness’ rather than instantly disintegrate under you and throw your face at the pavement-as evidenced by the frames and forks shown here, which likely had accrued many miles AFTER those worrisome signs appeared. In keeping with the old car analogy, older bikes can be perfectly safe to ride-they just require a bit more diligence in their upkeep.
Lifetime warranty for original owner, keep your receipt folks!
a pity that you are on the other side of the world
Still riding my 2001 Trek 5200 no worries. I did check out a new domane and noticed how much thinner the tubes felt (carbon layers?) could squeeze them in with fingers, the 5200 tubing feels like it has thicker layers can't squeeze these tubes. IDK ride it till it breaks is my moto. Great info but your scaring the hell outta folks lol.
Cyber Trucker Road Show carbon will fail. I mean it's just a matter of time. We're talking about a 20yr old frame!
I say keep the bike if you love it. I understand because I don't sell my frames. But I'd get a new one if I were you for most of my rides...
1996 Trek 5200,going strong.
Did replace the original fork for safety. They say that OCLV was over engineered for strength.
The Trek Domane is sexy but those thinner tubes don't last? 🤔
@@IronHorsey3 I'd replaced my fork as well but for a lighter Reynolds full carbon. That and a few other full carbon upgrades the bike weighs in just over 7.5kg. I did sell it 6mos ago to someone who is getting to ride it more than I have lately. He loves it ! We made a deal if he gets tired of it, it comes back to me.
Rusty steel bikes keep on ticking ....
Guess you didn't listen around 8:10.
Got a set of Easton ec90 forks must be 12years old what do I need to look for safety wise? Plus also have a set of spinegy Carbon wheels with alloy rim what to look for with these?
I would recommend that you discontinue use of both these items.
@@LuescherTeknik whoa are they that bad? The bike has not done that many miles over those 12 years .
Scrub that they are ec70 forks and also ec70 post. The wheels are spinegy stealth with stainless steel spokes the deep dish ones with alloy brake surface. I be far they have done very little ks less than 5000km has done less 300k in last 6 year
I would need to assess them here to know more on if they are damaged or not. Having said that I have seen the older parts fail due to break down of the resin and also growth of flaws over time.
The Spinergy wheels with metal spokes were more reliable than the full carbon ones, I would not use the old full carbon ones.
Luescher Teknik would love to have you look at them but I am in the uk. This really puts me off buying a second hand carbon anything ,as it seems there's no way of knowing if what your buying is a lemon! Is there going to be a massive problem with carbon parts in land full due it it being so fragile and its lack of recyclability ?
Hi I had a bad crash on sunday , 4 broken ribs and a concunsion ,anyways the bike is a issaac pascal 2008 monocote frame .I cant find a crack nowhere on the frame , what do you suggest to do ,scrap the frame or send it for inspection? Thanks in advance.
Sorry to hear about your crash. Probably worth an inspection, maybe your body took the worst of the impact and saved the frame.
Thank you .
that would be better the frame had took the impact than a cyclist got hurts.
@@fernandocycling9662 of course, but it doesn't always go like that unfortunately.
I agree, me and my ribs!
Loose fork = crack somewhere in fork/steerer/crown. Don't forget about the adhesive bonding (or lack thereof) between the crown and steerer.
Insidecarbonbikes is to carbon fiber bikes as the Corona virus is to health. Scary.
Hello master, I have a question for you, what is your opinion about specialized frame tarmac Sl4 2019 that is not sold to 2020? Thanks.
this is the bike: www.specialized.com/es/es/mens-tarmac-sl4-sport/p/157772
Please I wait yor answer, it means a lot to me. Best regards.
Your content is getting really repetitive...
Dru Jones how much difference is there in cf bikes? If you know what to look and listen for, i.e. have some type of clue about bike maintenance, there’s little nuggets of info in each video.
What do you want? A reality on bikes?