Can I put modern components on a Vintage Steel frameset? I'll show you how!
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- Опубліковано 23 вер 2024
- In this video we talk about the steps needed and things to look for in putting modern bicycle components on a vintage steel frameset. I talk about the advantages and disadvantages of doing that.
A glaring mistake in the video: I said standard six speed spacing was 125mm. Its actually 126.
(Edit on 1-4-24)
Someone made a comment on this video that was spot on. Also make sure before picking a headset that you consider the stack height. You don't want to buy a headset to find out that your fork steer tube is too short. Just a thought.
Music by Bensounds.com
How to respace your rear dropouts
• Cold Setting A Bike Fr...
My personal reason was cost: used 50$ steel frame + china groupset 160$ + used wheelset 60$ + BB 20$ + handlebar, seat etc = up to 400$ and i have nice-riding steel bike )) Especially when you do it gradually over time.
Which China groupset did you end up with? Ltwoo or sensah
@@asebaninja 11s Sensah mechanical, i like how it's works, but rubber on hoods is not very pleasant to the touch.
There's no way i would trust that build over a new entry level bike. Decathlon has a few good ones.
Used wheelset lol...
Lol my alloy bike with 105 and carbon fork only cost me $470!
@@yukiko_5051 you can proud yourself 👏
With those cars and those bikes together, you are without doubt the coolest bike guy on the internet. Cheers from Australia.
What a beautiful collection of bicycles and cars!
Thanks!
There is just something about a vintage steel frame that stands the test of time. In my younger racing days you could usually bend the frames back into alignment if the crash was not too bad. Now a days a crash in a criterium is a $1,500 to $3,000 frame replacement.
It is still fun to ride my vintage frames from the 80s. It is crazy to think that was over 40 years ago now.
lt is nice to give those old frames new life!
I have one of those Carbon bikes. I do enjoy it to be honest. However I love the feel of the steel a bit more. I feel more sure footed around corners. Im a larger guy.
I have a very nice Reynolds 531 Motobecane LeChampion from the 70s that I had refinished by CycleArt. I'm going to put it back into service with some modern componentry and ride it again. Thanks for the video. And I'm currently your most recent subscriber.
@@77gmcnut thanks so much! I appreciate that.
My 400 euro carbon crit frame has crashed 3 times and it’s still competitive.
My steel bikes are still competitive, too, in retro races. I like riding all of them.
Agree, they are very comfortable and ,yes, cracy , for me 38 years ago I bought my custombuild Bob Jackson bike .
I own a 1968 Schwinn Super Sport with 10 speed ultegra sti shifters, 105 three-piece crank, Dura acea D7900 front derallieur(no adapter necessary) and Tektro long reach brakes(ultegras didn't work out), Mavic Open Pro rims laced to ultegra hubs with Wheel Smith double-butted spokes, 28mm Rubino Pro tires. Nitto bars and I forget what stem, Campy cable guides with beautiful fleur de lis design and custom parts here and there. Basically the only original parts left were the frame, fork, and Brooks B-15 saddle in great condition. Remarkable how much weight comes off this bike when the Ashtabula crank and kickstand are removed. I just love those chrome-moly fillet brazed frames.
During the pandemic I bought a 1986 Schwinn Peloton frame on ebay. Schwinn contracted with Panasonic to build those frames with Columbus SL tubing. I built it up with modern Shimano 105 and Ultegra components. I had to use what I could get during the parts shortage. It was a nice project. I did go with modern handlebars because I like compact drops. I live in the mountains and went with 50-34 crankset and 11-32 cassette. It came out really nice. Glad I am not alone. Thanks for posting. Great video.
I put a 34/50 Vuelta on a garage sale 2x6 TREK classic. I love it and saved it from the scrap yard
Sweet. I remember the pelotons. Didn't often see one though as Italian stuff was all the rage in the early 90's
I have an '85 Peloton with the original suntour superbe pro groupset, probably the best bike I've ever owned. Have done tens of thousands of miles on her, did a 2000 mile bikepacking tour, did some amateur racing. Just the pinnacle of steel frame bicycles right there.
Hey, young (32) vintage mtb builder here. I really appreciate your open minded attitude towards building bikes. I'm restomodding 90s mtbs and I love the challenges that come with upgrading an old steel frame with modern parts. Your video has been helpful. And it's been fun to watch, too! Thanks!
AWESOME> I was the local GT bicycles rep from 89 to 99. Thats my era. I get excited when I see an old XTR bike..Thanks for watching
Hey mojo, firstly good luck on your projects! Personally I have a 90s 26” MTB that I have modded to be a little more modern, I wanted to know, is there any way to put a threadless 1 1/8th steerer fork as a replacement for the 1” threaded vintage fork and headset? The head tube looks a bit narrow and I’ve read it can’t be done unless the threaded fork is also 1 1/8. That’s really the one thing I really want to change, so I can put a good suspension fork that also supports hydraulic brakes. I would really appreciate your insight
@@deniahmetaj To my knowledge, that is not possible. I know this is a vintage road bike channel. But I was the GT factory rep from 89 to 99. Good luck
@@deniahmetajfar as I know that's unfortunately not possible, have you tried fitting one already ?
@@JohnsVintageRoadBikeGarage It is possible, since it's possible with old BMXs that were designed for 1" threaded headsets. There's a stickied thread about it in the BMX Tech & Restoration subforum of the BMX Museum forum, titled "How To Convert 1inch Threaded To 1 1/8 Threadless". I would link directly to the thread but UA-cam doesn't like external links these days, but copy and pasting the thread title into Google will turn it up.
It's not hard to do if you use loose ball bearings (which are better than caged bearings anyway because you can fit more bearings of a given size into a given space), but if you want to use caged bearings for whatever reason, you may have to try various ones before finding ones that mate well with the cups and cones. And the procedure for a BMX is no different than for a mountain bike. The only difference between the two is the length of the head tube and steerer tube, which doesn't matter at all for this type of conversion. It would work for old road bikes too.
The gist of it is that you need a 1 1/8" threadless fork, a 1 1/8" threadless stem, and a 1 1/8" threadless headset designed for caged or loose bearings (as opposed to cartridge bearings), but you won't be using the head tube cups from that headset; instead you use ones from a 1" threaded headset. Then just put it together as you'd normally do with a modern bike, and use loose ball bearings to prevent any potential hassles associated with finding cages that fit right.
Maybe you should try it since you have so many parts and bikes, and if all goes well, make a video about it.
Note - if you do not want to bend your frame Grand Bois make 120/126 rear hubs that take a modern Shimano sprockets . I have upgraded my 1968 Jack Taylor on a 120 Hub with Miche sprockets and a Tiara 10 speed shifters (limited to 8 via limit screws)
26/44 front and 13/15/17/19/21/23/25/27 for bike packing.
That is an ABSOLUTELY BEAUTIFUL bike! Love the neo-retro.
Thanks!
I love restomod bikes! I build one myself earlier this year based on 1979 Gazelle Champion Mondial frame. Replaced everything but the frame with modern componentry, threadless headset, carbon 1inch fork, carbon seat post, carbon wheels, full SRAM Rival 1x11 groupset (incl. brakes and crankset). I simply can't get enough of this bikes looks and of how it rides!
Wow, you went all out! Even the fork! Nice job
Hey Matviichuk,
i also have access to a champion mondial „A Frame“ with Reynolds 531 tubing. Do you recommend building it up with modern components? What were the challenges and whats the maximal tire clearence you get?
Greetings from Germany,
Daniel
Hey, Daniel!
Mine is also A-frame, by the way. I definitely recommend building it up with modern stuff! Depending on the frame size seat post diameter might differ. I have size 53 and the DIA is 27.0, frames 54+ will have 27.2mm. I wanted as much carbon parts as possible, so finding a 27.0mm carbon seatpost was a challenge. Another thing to mention is the rear hub spacing, it differs from 120mm in the early years to 126mm in the later years. Mine is 1979 and had 125mm spacing, so only 5mm to set for modern 130mm hub. Though Reynolds 531 can be easily cold set to almost any size.
Bottom brackets are BSA on all years, so nothing special there.
Regarding the tire size, it is limited by brake calipers rather than a frame itself. I'm using SRAM Rival brakes, so my max tire is 28mm. I think most of the calipers are maxing out at about 28mm. If it wasn't for the brakes I think 30-32mm would fit.
Regards,
V.
@@V_Matviichuk Wow, thanks for the details! I might come back to you for more info, when i am deciding to the conversion.
Even I'm using a 36 years old noname frame with cheapest shimano 3x7 setup. It just works, makes me happy.
Absolutely beautiful and with respect your garage is stunning. I’ve been on steel for the last 20 years and at 60 years old now would never change my ride. Steel has a soul, pure and simple. Carbon bikes are soulless, I purchased a Colnago C64 sold it after three rides. So glad I found your channel. 👍🏼🇬🇧
Excellent video. I like the idea of new components on old frames, so now I know what to look for.
Excellent. Glad it helped. Thanks for watching
Cold set my 1980 Carlton Clubman frame myself using threaded rod and nuts / washers inside the drop outs, then gradually easing it out a half turn every few days. Worked perfectly, had it checked on a jig and dropouts were straight. I thenI built it with Campagnolo 9speed (Which is same width and hub as 9/10/11/12 speed, so I could have used any of those). Easy so long as you consider what could go wrong and check after. The resultant bike was a dream to ride (as good as my 1983 Carlton Professional which is running the same equpment, but was professionally cold set). I have recently taken it out of service to get a respray as frame was looking very tatty - will rebuild back to 9speed when painted.
That should be cool when it's done. Id like to see it painted. Email it to my address on my UA-cam page! Thanks
Thank you. I want to restore (by myself if I can) my 1975 Peugeot UE_8 for sentimental reasons primarily, but also the desire to get back to cycling. Very helpful points for me to consider that you have made here.
Hey hey! That should be fun.
I've done basically the same thing on a '90s pearlescent pink Holdsworth. It's a lovely ride, and usually gets some nods from other riders. It was also a nice cheap build, relatively!
Nothing better than having a bike this just fits and works for you.
Hey John , been following your channel for quite awhile,and must say this video is one of your finest.
All the best.
STEEL IS REAL!
Thanks so much!
That 1983 Pro-Miyata is the exact same model as the first bike I bought with my own hard-earned summer money. I still have it, built up currently with a full Dura-Ace AX group including the AX handlebars, stem, and seatpost. It looks cool with the aero fork and seat stays and that funky top downtube shifter boss. I also have a 1983 Team-Miyata with full Dura-Ace EX with stem, seatpost, and AX handlebars, as well as a 1981 Team-Myata with full DA AX group but currently not built up. I do have some retromod bikes: a 1991 Team-Miyata with 10-speed DA 7800/7700, a 1989 Tesch S-22 with 11-speed Campy Record, a 1989 Pinarello with 11-speed Athena/Chorus, a 1991 Zullo with 11-speed Athena, and soon to be early 90s Picchio Special with 11-speed Campy SR/Record. I definitely get more use out of my retromod bikes. And no, none of these bikes are ruined as they can all go easily right back to contemporary components just as fast as I can strip and install them.
What an amazing collection. A 81 Miyata Team built stock is a Must have!
The '81 Team came with Dura-Ace AX? Not EX? My early 80's came with EX. The cranks & pedals, and stem and I think seat post was the same between EX and AX - but the derailleurs and brakes were very different.
You must have a big garage, and an understanding wife :)
Hi - I just bought a Pro Miyata and I noticed a little crack at rear drop out on deralier side, is that an issue ? Do I have to check it out to a frame builder ? I am planing on doing a retromod. I would like to hear out your opinion on it, happy to send pictures. Cheers
That Miyata frame is a work of art. I have a late '80s Team Miyata. Top tube is too short for me but otherwise it's a very nice bike.
I had a frameset that I had built in the early 90s that wasn’t used in a long time. I decided that it would be fun to put modern parts on it. I stripped the paint and had it powder coated, spread the rear dropouts using a bolt and nuts, had a bike shop make the dropouts parallel, replaced the fork with a Columbus Minimal carbon fiber model, replaced the stem with a threadless type and used modern drivetrain. It worked fine, and only problem was that I have to let the air out to remove the rear wheel because it was designed for the old narrow tires.
Wow! what frame was it?
I recently picked up a ‘86 Centurion Ironman with Shimano 600 groupset. I stripped it all down, sold the parts on eBay and currently upgrading it to a Tiagra 4700 10 speed groupset. I found a set of SLR-0 carbon wheels and cold set the rear dropouts to fit the 130mm axle. So far so good. It’s very light for a steel frame bike.
Other than the super-heavy crank, Tiagra 4700 is truly the Groupset of the People(tm). Switch out the 4700 crankset for a 105 R7000 or 5800 and you're golden.
When I became a Cat-1 pro racer in the late 70s early 80s I did so on a blue/Gold Team Miyata with all Aero Dura Ace.. No other bike even came close. Lived in LA, and worked at Shimano in the San Fernando Valley. I raced mostly in Mexico doing the big race tours which were more Euro style. LOVED THAT BIKE!
Huge fan of the team. Im looking for one in minty condition. In my size. I will keep that one stock however!
I do understand you 100%, nothing like such a beautiful made frame as that blue frame of yours. It is gorgeous!
Yeah, running steel frames with Ritchey classic line components and silver Shimano 105 r7000! Such a cool bike.
Publish some photos somewhere. :-)
A great video John one more issue; if you are doing this to a British vintage touring bike, it probably came with 27 x 1 1/4 rims and modern brakes might prove too short in the stirrup. Solved this with vintage Mafac brakes , which I hated as a youth, but they do work and are easy to find
jon
I've just finished restoring my English built '79 Knight, R531 F&F/Campy drop-outs, with full Dura Ace 7100 gen2. Only things I've changed are the wheels with an 8s block, saddle and some spuds. I did have to shoehorn the rear wheel in, a little! 😁
Good video! ✌️🇬🇧
Thank you for this video. I have assembled a road bicycle that combines a steel frame from the 80s and a brand new Shimano Claris groupset. The bottom bracket needed threading, the space between dropouts was too narrow, and brake fastener holes had to be drilled wider so that recessed bolts could fit. It was worth it, though. The frame was designed for road racing, and was built in Portugal using Ishiwata tubing and lugs that bear more than a passing resemblance with those used by Bianchi in 1970's Specialissima. It's the best of both worlds: a beautiful, sturdy and comfortable frame with components that, as you say, shift better, brake better and give an overall better ride than epoch ones. And all under the price of a new budget aluminium-framed road bike.
P. S. Mavic Aksium wheels and Continental tyres are a match made in heaven.
Sounds like an epic build! Should be a great ride. I'm working on another retro-mod.. coming soon. Thanks for watching!
Thx for the info, I had a 1989 Miata 718, it was marketed to the Tri-athlete crowd, Peal White/Black with some Lime/Pink accents, a friend gave me the bike after it had been in his yard 25 years, I went through it but only changed the tire's to 28mm Continental otherwise I liked the indexed downtube shifter's and the brakes were great. The back was Chrome-Moly middle Aluminum and fork Chrome-Moly it felt nice to ride it, unfortunately someone stole it last month, replaced it with a 2009 TRek 520 which is good too but 6 lbs. heavier.
The older bikes are interesting, that Miata had incredible paint it was like new after being out doors all those years.
Sorry to hear about the Miyata! that sucks. You went from a Tri bike to a 520 touring. Yes .. much heavier but maybe more comfy on the long rides.
Not to quibble over just 1 mm - well, OK, I am quibbling - but I recall so-called 6-speed spacing being 126 mm, not 125. I remember it going from 120 to 126 to 130 (and eventually to 135).
you're probably right! LOL I was thinking that too.
@@JohnsVintageRoadBikeGarage It would only have taken 2 minutes to look up the exact spacing on Sheldon Brown's website...
@@lastfm4477 it's one of those things that you know. Then you misspeak. No big deal.
@@JohnsVintageRoadBikeGarage I hate when that happens.
Great summary, watching this after buying a steel Raleigh and it looks like I was lucky all the specs are good
Love the build. I own a Miyata 914 triple butted splined and it is the sleeper in my collection. Just hollotech bb, 50-34 ( for my old legs) 6 speed dt indexed shifters ( Suntour) and a great set of wheels, durace hubs.. It rides as good or better than my reynolds 531, ishiwata 022 and columbus. Just a joy to ride. I got into the hobby after retirement and working on the old steel frames is good therapy and keeps me out of bars. Happy new year and thanks for the videos, keep them coming.
PS, tektro has 539 brakes with both nutted and recessed mounts.
Awesome bike! Im a fan of the Miyata splined tubing too. Miyata's have always been a bit stiffer than the rest back then. Correct on the Tektro brakes! Thanks
Great video HOMIE,,,,,I was bitten by the bicycle bug since 1972 ( Eddy Merckx hour record era) and the classic frames are better than carbon.
Homie! LOL. I almost retook that shot..But it was funny. Whats your bike of choice?
Great video as always!
I’m doing the same thing with an ‘87 Raleigh 531c “Racing USA” frame. I had a local frame builder spread and aligned the rear triangle to 130mm and will build it up (except for the brakes) with a Campy 9sp triple, the brakes, I’ve had a set of Deltas sitting around for a while 😊. I figured if they were good enough for Laurent Fignon that they would work well enough for me 😊
This is the best way to go today! Rides perfectly smooth, perfect brakes and perfect shifting. You can get great bike for 1000 EUR
Amazing video. I m a big fan of putting modern parts on a retro frame.
Thanks! I appreciate you watching.
@@JohnsVintageRoadBikeGarage great episode and lovely backgrounds as well 😍
Very interesting. Steel is so Real. Nothing like it!
It sure is!
I converted this year my 35 Year old Crossbike to 12 Speed: 180€ Chinese Groupset and 100€ new rearwheel with 11speed freehub. I did not cold bend the frame i just widened the frame and put the wheel in the frame. Changing wheel is now a little bit laborious. I did not changed the crankset, but changed to 1 chainring. I put this chainring 5mm more to the left to compensate the chainline because the new cassette is wider.
My 1984 Pinarello Treviso is made from ( Columbus - Chrome Moly ) Tubing. Don't ever want to part with it. Have it all apart for total clean up. These steel bikes performed very well. My Colnago was stolen. Amazing Bikes.
Awesome. i have a 86 Treviso in the collection. Its NOS. Too bad its too small for me!
All of my road bikes(minus the gravel bike) either started their life with me as restomods, or currently do have modern components on them. I think for a bike meant to be ridden, the only thing that matters is that whoever is riding it likes riding it. If modern components keep a bike out on the road, I don't think they can be a bad thing.
For one of my bikes, I went about it wanting to use a part from as many decades as possible, along with as many brands as I could fit into it. It's got a sram red groupset, shimano wheels(or rather, it did before I upgraded to a dynamo front hub), campagnolo H11 crankset(the chainline is within spec, I checked), it had suntour superbe brakes with kool stop cross pad holders(I did have to use some washers behind the nuts to comfortably mount the brakes to the frame), SR Royal ESL stem(the hollow one with titanium hardware!), and a Tange Levin CDS headset(30mm stack height - a good solution if your fork is just barely too short, I actually needed spacers for mine). It rides so well I actually converted my other restomod to 2x10 friction shifting, so I didn't have 2 bikes with similar riding experiences.
Wow. crazy diverse bike. Awesome!
Great video, thanks. One important thing you didn't mention is wheel size. My steeel 1982 Raleigh has 27" wheels rather than 700c (630mm rim rather than 622mm). It's not easy to swap to 700c as it's difficult to get deep drop brakes with the extra 4mm of reach. Also it is relatively simple to use modern brakes on a frame which originally had 'nutted' brakes. The modern front brake has the correct length bolt to use as the rear brake. The short bolt on the remaining brake can be replaced with a longer one for the front.
Thanks. I did fail to mention that. However, I was assuming that if they were putting modern parts on a bike they would be using modern wheels.. All are 700c. Then they have to pick the correct brakes that are compatible with that. You make a great point! Thanks
Watch your headset stack height. I redid my 1973 Mercian Super Vigorelli (track bike) a year ago after Mercian resprayed it and installed a new bridge so I can install a rear brake (as needed). Took me forever to find a short 1" thread to fit. It was originally a Campagnolo Record Pista headset (loose balls) and long worn out. Works great with (2000 era not 1970s) Record Pista 32 spoke tubular wheels, original Cinelli 64 bars and 1A stem, 170 mm Record Pista Cranks (Phil square taper BB) and Record Titanium seat post. Use it on the Atlanta Velodrome for fun.
Other things the spacing of the BB needs to be taken into account, as a replacement record BB with the new Pista cranks did not have chainring clearance. So I went with Phil Wood. Finding spokes was a real challenge! Hardly anyone mainatins spokes like the old days. 😞
OH GREAT tip on the headset for sure! This being about converting to modern components the BB length and compatibility of the cranks are always suspect. Of course when changing to other vintage parts BB spindle length is always in question. Thanks for the great tips!
This upload is great timing for me. Answered questions I had and been thinking about lately. Cold setting and keeping rear dropouts parallel. Have a Japan 1974 Schwinn Le Tour that I'm fixing up.
Check the link in the description in the video. It shows the "how to" in respacing the drops. That LeTour was spaced 120mm and it didnt have a forged dropout. You can probably do it but might stress the frame getting a full centimeter spread in the back. Good luck and have fun with it!
This is why all my biles have english threads and reynolds tubing in the main triangle for 27.2mm seatposts in. 99% of the cases. The english threading standards became the 1" ISO standards so all modern parts will fit, easily, including thread-on freewheels (no french or Italian threads, thank you very much!)
If the frame is not prepped for recessed bolts, you usually can ream or drill the rear opening larger to fit the recessed nut. Remember to paint any exposed steel.
This is an absolute gem of a channel. Thanks man
I’ve built five vintage steel frames up using various flavors of Sram Etap. Each has turned a fine steel frame into a thoroughly modern riding experience
Couldn’t agree more. The only issue I’ve encountered is the snobbery of the “purists”. Mine’s a 1986 Team Panasonic Raleigh now with (actually functional) Campagnolo Centaur that looks and rides like the nuts
That's really cool! I have one in the works myself. My '06 Cinelli. I'm going to put some semi-modern campy on it. Should be a fun build
By coincidence I just purchased a Masi Evolutione frame and the headset is tapered 1.5 at the bottom of the head tube and standard 1 1/8” at the top. His was a new one for me. This is a modern frame issue. Love your show!
Hey thanks!
Everything said very good! But when the frame doesnt allows all modern components, then there is always the chance to put a flip-flop hub in the rear, 3mm spacers both sides to get from 120 to 126mm and ride it free or fixed :)
My first real bike was a woman's frame bike from the 1940s. My mother got it second hand for her 15th birthday. It originally had a 110 rear for a Sturmey Archer 3 -speed internal gear hub but that was not working by the time I got to it 30 years later. I ran it as a single speed till 1985 when I retromodded it to take a 120, 5- speed derailleur freewheel. I didn't think twice about bending the rear triangle out from 110 to 120 because I didn't know any better but I never had any problems with it.
Edit: I don't know how that section of text got a line through it....
I’ve got a few bikes in my Service Course. My Litespeed 2003 Tuscany is the road ride of choice. But the biggest tire I could go with the “new’ wider 11 speed compatible wheels is 25c tires. I know tire size is sometimes arbitrary, my choice of tires is Panaracer.
Thanks John, I'm love your videos. Keep up the great work. Stay safe and enjoy your rides.
Dave,
SOUTH AUSTRALIA
Thanks Dave!
What I loved about the vintage bikes were the levers on the brakes with the extra auxiliary levers, so easy when sitting more upright. Maybe in the future, with some shifters already being electric, some electric brakes hopefully have an option for more than one lever
As a rule of thumb: 7 speeds bikes and above are directly upgradable (130/135 spacing). I also upgraded two with modern groupset, one in black (chorus) and one in silver (centaur). Silver componentry and wheels are not easy to find new now.
7 speed was often still 126 mm spacing (road) or 130 mm spacing (mtb). The switch to 130 for road and 135 mm for mtb came at 8 speed! There are some exceptions for 7-speed mtb hubs with 135 mm spacing, butas far as I know 6/7 speed road hubs were always spaced at 126 mm. Credit to Sheldon Brown / Bicycle Frame/Hub Spacing!
My 7 speed ‘90’s Peugeot road bike has 126mm spacing.
I still have my 1982 Trek 736 steel road bike, I believe it came with 700x25c clincher tires but those tires dried up and cracked to pieces. I replaced them with 26mm wide 'gravel' tires, they were the widest I could mount due to my narrow rim width and brake caliper clearance. The original Suntour Superbe component group is still on the bike and I'm still using the friction shifters on the downtube but I did managed to find replacement gum rubber brake lever hoods.
The saddle, handlebar, and stem were swapped out for more modern gravel-style pieces and the toe-clip pedals were replaced with modern flat pedals. The bike is more comfortable to ride now that the riding position is just a bit more upright and not bent so aggressively tucked into a time trial race position. Don't get me wrong, the geometry is still a fast and responsive road bike but I think I just took the edge off of it so that my old bones can ride it longer.
You can get quill stems for 31.8 with a face plate.
Love resto-mods. Mine:
‘84 Miyata 710 1x11 - Shimano 105 RD (+RoadLink), 11-40 cassette, 42T ring, Shimano 600 brakes, crank, seatpost (flat bar cafe bike)
‘87 Bianchi Brava 1x11 - Shimano RX812 RD, 11-42 cassette, Shimano 1055 crank w/44T ring, 105 brifters and brakes (main training, events bike)
‘89 Centurion LeMans 1x7 - Claris RD, 14-34 cassette, Shimano 1050 crank w/42T ring, Claris brakes (wife's bike)
The problem with electronic shifting is most of the brifters only support hydro disc brakes.
Nice stable of bikes. GREAT Point with the electric shifting! Hope everyone takes note.
Agree with what you're saying here John. The important thing for me is that the frame gets continued to be used in the manner that the guy who built it intended it to be - especially if it's a race frame. So yes, be able to stop, yes be comfortable, yes have the good selection of gears and then there is no reason why you connot be competitive on a vintage steel frame. One additional thing that I do sometimes is replace the original fork for an early carbon fork with a steel steering tube - then you can retain the regular threaded headset and stem. This knocks 250gm/0.55lb off the weight without compromising the looks to much. Both Look and Time did these sort of forks, you just have to be patient to find them second hand. Doing this and a few other tricks it's well possible to build a vintage steel frame into something that weighs in the 7.5 - 8kg / 16.5lbs - 17.5lbs class. So you lose almost nothing evening going uphill. The plus side - you almost always have a conversation starter with someone who admires your bike!
I considered that. This bike weighs in at exactly 20lbs. If I want it lighter instead of ordering a fork, I'll order a salad next time at dinner! LOL. thanks for watching!
My 1986 Trek 560 is now running a 11x 105 system. A small note about stems and handlebars... The geometry of modern bars and brifters is different than older stuff. I never had a really comfortable hand position until i swapped the bars for modern geometry.
Love it. Best of both worlds.
IT is! Thanks
What a sweet collection of bikes... love to see old bikes being used and loved. Yeah, all the new bikes look nice, but they all seem to be missing something... I feel that 'something' is the look of a hand-made bike. There's definitely something to be admired about an old-school Columbus SL & SP framed bike; that 'something' that seems to be missing in modern frames. I am not into racing, so modern for modern's sake doesn't appeal to me; much like new sports cars vs. old muscle cars... putting safety aside, buying cheap and modding it seems to make better sense to me. Again, I am not at all interested in spending thousands on a new bike, and with so many classic road bikes on the market, this seems to me to be the far better option. Rebuilding and restoring an old classic seem to make far better sense than contributing to the consumerism of 'all-things new.' Besides, a 24lb road bike is still a light bike... my '85/6 Schwinn Voyageur SP Touring bike still kicks but for what I need it to do, and for that, that's all I need... I'm not racing anyone; I am just enjoying the ride.
I built up a 1986 Specialized Allez a few years ago with a 2012 10 spd groupset, Fulcrum Racing Quattro wheelset, and a 1997 Profile carbon fork. The bike was bought by a friend of mine right after he graduated college in '86, he gave it to another friend about 10 yrs ago, and then he passed it onto me. The bike rides so nice that I am selling the frame of my full carbon Masi.
I still have the original steel fork, but the 1" headset was cracked. I may eventually buy a newer 1" headset and swap back to the original fork.
In addition to the Team (DuraAce EX) there is the Aero (DuraAce AX). Both were great bikes of the time-if not quirky. And yeah, the big issue was the tire clearance, they made it reaallllly tight. The vest you can do (in the modern sense) is a 25 mm sew up. That will ride nicely but…
Ive seen only a few of those. Last one around here was at Cycle Smithy in Chicago. Mark sold it for 11K! It was NOS
I ride a tiny 46cm 1986 Cannondale M300 frame. Cut the brake bosses off, polished the frame. Used first gen Shimano 600 medium drop touring brakes and now the bike runs 10 speed Shimano 105 / R500 700c rims. 130mm quill stem, 25.4 x 36 cm bars. Cook Brother Racing cranks. Love old American built frames.
Wow. that's what I call a conversion! incredible spec!
Neo retro vintage, when done right, can look ace.
I was gonna sell my old Specialized Sirrus, my first road bike bought back in 1989. But as I had it apart for cleaning and getting back together, I was looking at it across my room and realized I just really don't want to part with it. So I'm taking the ten speed 105 drivetrain from another bike that I did sell, and am in the process of putting it on this bike. Haven't ridden this bike in years, I'm looking forward to getting back on it.
Make sure your skewers have a serrated clamping surface if the dropouts are horizontal. It’s easy to pull the drive side forward if the clamping force and friction is not strong enough.
I wish this stuff was more common knowledge.
My road bike is from 1988 with Columbus SLX tubing, and with all new parts including an 11 speed drivetrain and Ritchey Zeta classic wheelset with tan wall Schwalbe one tyres it rides really really great! I also made sure to put only silver coloured parts on it to keep the classic look.
The old high end SLX frameset and the fresh parts give the bike an amazing responsive and tight feel, and my frame takes up to 30mm tyres as well which is plenty for this bike.
Total weight including pedals 8.7kg! Total build cost about 1300 euros or 1450 USD, which I think is great value for how well it rides. Although I did get the frameset for free.
That's the spirit of this video. What a great combo!
I was doing the western end of the Katy trail on a 87 Sirrus back in 2005 & 2006. Great fun!
Looks like a great trail. Watched 5 UA-camrs do that route and they all shared that you needed more than 32C tires if it rains. Would you agree!
I rode it in the summers on 28mm tires but dry. I would think that a 32 would be better in the wet. I'd defer to their experience.
They all agreed with you. When it's dry you can ride your 28s. But you begin to sink when its wet. I have the same problem with the Illinois Prairie path next to the garage!@@greghodge4093
My opinion: Sweet spot for "Resto-Mods" of classic steel frames is 2x9 speed Shimano - you may mix&match the MTB and Road Groups, even Dura ace 9-speed is compatible. Spares/wear parts such as Chains, Cassettes etc.pp are cheap and readily available. Aesthetics - lots of silver / anodized aluminum
Great suggestions. I'll be building a couple more resto mods soon.
I put a SRAM wireless 12 speed on a 2002 litespeed ultimate frame. I had to make it a 1x12 11-36 because the modern FSA carbon crankset with external bottom bracket will make the chainline way off. I went with a 50 tooth narrow wide chainring mounted on the inside of the crank where usually the smaller chainring mounts. I used a 40mm carbon wheel set 11 sp . 12 speed cassettes fit!
I had to use a steel bar and warm the titanium up opening up the chain stay to accommodate a wider tire. Back then they were using 19mm tires. Now it will take a 28mm max but I run 25mm tires. It’s a lot faster now. Something about a modern 12 speed drivetrain. Shifting is so positive and never misses a shift or drops a chain. SRAM force wireless derailleur have come way down in price. I use blips. Two buttons on the inside of my hoods for shifting. So easy! Really saves the knees because I’m always in the perfect gears. I can also keep up with those fast group rides now because I’m shifting faster than everyone else. I sold my high end carbon bike because I love the road feel of a classic bike. Even better with modern components.
Good video thank you.
I once cold set the back triangle on a Benotto, to fit a fixed gear, in other words I shortened the space to 120mm. With time the welds failed on the dropouts and the frame was toast. Be careful. When cold setting
Add metric nuts and ride it
Respacing the hub is always best in this situation. A half an hour and a few bucks in spacers and you're done.
@@Rabnes25 yes, but what if fixed gear axles are too short for that? This is the hardest part of converting a race bike to fixed gear.
@@Jack42Frost it would depend how much you are trying to space out the hub. 126 to 120 is 3mm per side. I've had great luck with this personally. 130 or 135 is a different animal. At that point I'd just buy a gun that was spaced appropriately.
@@Jack42Frost buy 150mm axles from a lowrider shop and build the wheel to fit. Just add a couple nuts before sawing the excess off and filing them, to chase the threads
Ive read quite a bit about hitting the pause button when thinking about spreading a higher-end heat treated tube e.g. 753.
In a 126mm rear, you can fit a 10sp Ultegra cassette on a 126mm Tricolor hub.
Building up an '84 753 SBDU TTS at the moment with some modern parts.
I didnt want to get to far into the details. Richard Schwinn said when they respace the Paramounts and such they actually remove the brake bridge and replace it so your flexing the stays starting at the seat cluster and not at the brake bridge. Then they reset a new brake bridge in an appropriate place.
I didnt know that you can fit 10speeds in 126!
Good luck with your builds.
If you want more gears without cold setting or changing a 7-speed freehub body to a 8-10speed freehub body, you may always take a Cassette and remove the biggest cog: 11 becomes a narrow 10 speed, 10 a narrow 9 speed and so on. Of course, to index you need the right shifters and lose one "click" on them.
"Repair bottom brackets" are great. They thread into their own cups without regard to busted threads or french bb threading
I always enjoy your videos 😊….Happy New year 🎉
Hi John, I'd like a simple checklist that includes the areas of concern. It could list the frame specs (possibly measuring as needed) and then alongside it, the specs of new components being considered. I'd never be able to keep it all remembered otherwise!
Great vid my dude. I've been very tempted to do a similar build. I have an oldish (2015) boardman carbon bike that's cracked and the seat post seized but the wheels and gears are good and as you say can't beat a good steel frame and that's exactly the info I needed to do the thing. Cheers.
I like the look of the bike!
Awesome upgrades!😊
Greetings from Croatia from Kris 😎
Thank you! Glad you're watching!
Love the convertible beetle!
I’m building up two vintage Schwinn frames for my wife and I using Sensah Empire 2x11 speed. The shifters are silver to match the other components, and the hoods are brown to match the saddle and bar tape. Overall the bikes will have modern functionality with vintage looks.
That's the goal of many!
I ride a resto mod 3Rensho and it's as fast as anything or anyone I ride with. A great bike holds up and the one you built is gorgeous. I would say modernizing a bike was a lot easier 10 years ago. Now with electronic shifting, thru axles, disc brakes, etc, it's getting trickier. I really wish someone was still making high end silver alloy parts. That would be amazing.
You weren't on ragbrai 50 by any chance, were you?
@@JohnsVintageRoadBikeGarage Yes sir. We chatted. It's going in for paint and factory original decals soon. Just got the parts off.
@@krisevans5479 super cool. I actually picked up a frame similar to yours but it's too small for me. I'm going to flip it. Who are you sending it to to get a painted?
@@JohnsVintageRoadBikeGarage Yellow Jersey Bike Shop. They are an old Madison bike shop that specializes in niche special steel bikes. They were one of the only 3Rensho dealers in the US back in the day, and sold mine originally back in 83. Sorry to hear yours was too small. The search continues!
@@krisevans5479 would you email me at the email address shown at the top of my page? I have some questions if you will.
So I have a 1986 Chrome Molybdenum frame on the wall of my garage and I have seen a couple of videos talking retro fits. I haven't seen one that talks chrome moly frames though and mine was owned brand new. I stopped using it because the gears and cogs wore out, with my front cog teeth looking like shark fins. The wheels were also suss because of brake block wear on the rims. Funnily enough the bike was built with quick release wheels. Tragically, I live in Aus so the fitout will still cost a quid or two.
Fun video! I found that some of the newer rear-derailleurs like Campy 12sp and Shimano mid/long cage on older frames need to have something like a Wolf Tooth Roadlink as the derailluer hanger is just not long enought to handle anything bigger than a 25/26, I could not get my 11-32T shifting cleanly until I put one of these in. The B-screw simply ran out of thread and I could not get the lowest gear to wrap cleanly. On a couple of different frames, one roadlink went on vertically (41cm stays), on another frame(41.5 stays), I installed horizontally and it worked like a charm, shifts were great and crisp.
That is valuable information. Thanks so much. Can you in the comments here put a link to the product you're talking about? Thanks for watching
Sorry but actually is was a 126 mm rear spacing, not 125. Cold Set it to 130 mm, alien the droputs to one another and go for it. Most vintage frames will take up to 30 or maybe 32 mm tires. Have rebuilt many old steel frames. Good video for basic info.
Great catch! 126 is correct. Thanks for watching
Re space to 130 and jam
I just can add: Measure everything. There are, for example old french steer tubes with inner diameters of 22mm. Usually you have 22.2mm. No normal stem will fit. Also then you have to consider there are at least 3 diameters of the handlebar clams. Old, new.. and french you know. In central europe you will see a lot of different components.
Great catch on the french steer tube! Even some of the Schwinns had that size!
Yes, I have had 2 frensh bikes.One Peugeot and a Motobecane. There was not even one thread that fit normal standard although they use metric threading.
Bottom bracket :
Peugeot 35×1 right ,right (french threading)
Motobecane 35×1 left ,right
(Swiss threading) and on top of that all bolts 5×1 ( not ISO metric standard M5×0,8 ).
A Pain to get spareparts.
Never again french steelbikes.😅
I put a modern group set on my 1985 Cannondale, didn’t have to space it out or anything, all I had to do was remove a spacer on my wheel hubs to get it to fit perfectly. The wheel falls into it perfectly. I also decided to keep using the braze on friction shifters just because I like them
How modern? How many speeds? Did you remove the spacer from the left side?
I'm currently trying to do this with an 80's Daccordi frame. Thank you for the tips.
Check out the linked video.. Shows you some options. Thanks!
Well of course you can...,depending on budget & at what you are prepared to do to achieve it nothing is impossible...!!
Thinking of picking up a modern cinelli super corsa frame and throwing on some fairly modern campag think that would be sweet 🤔
Nice bug 👍
I have a 2006 in red. You can see my video on the channel. Im going to take that and put a Chorus or Record 10/11 speed group on it. Cant wait. Good luck with that. The bug Belongs to my sister inlaw. I keep it warm in the winter for her! Thanks!
Super explanatory content.
Thanks for sharing it.
Thank you SOOOO Much I have a vintage Raleigh Competition from 86 I am restoring.
Hey awesome, how are you going to build it up?
Porsche and vintage steel bikes. My kind of guy!
Anything can fit anything depending on access to equipment, skill level and budget. I cold set an elswick turbo 12 to accept a modern wheel, and also fitted modern index shifters. It rides really well, and as it was such an inexpensive frame it was great to experiment on, as it was only £10 if it went wrong.
Just looked at your channel. This is much less dangerous! lol
I'm doing the opposite, I bought a 1997 trek ZX 2300 composite with Carbon tubes and aluminium lugs and I want to convert it to look like it's from 70es, with non-aero brakes and downtube shifters, but with added carbon fiber drop handlebars that have the look of 70es handlebars, so less ergonomic and more sexy. The bike is 9 kg by default, but when I change some other parts I can make it even lighter, maybe even add carbon fiber fork, seat post and wheels.
That is a beautiful bike, great build and tips !
Thanks!
I have put full wireless electronic group sets on traditional steel frames. I even had a modern steel Rawland Ravn drilled and gusseted (reinforced holes) to run Di2 wiring internally so it’s very possible even with wired groups if you know someone who can modify the frame correctly (a Rawland has traditional tubing sizes so this isn’t anything exotic.) I’m sure people will wonder why you would do such a thing, but in my case, I have neurological problems that prevent me from actuating mechanical brifters, so it’s really the only way I can ride.
Wow, interesting. So glad you got that to work!
Modern components on vintage frames are a thing of its own. Some people like the look, the performance and how it is a bit eclectic. These bikes don't have to look authentic, just like vintage clothing is often mixed with modern.
Bikes are personal. Do what works for you!
Tip of the hat to frame builder Jeff Bock!
He's a hero! I love his work
Bill Triplet had a 6 speed 11-26, Team Miyata, with the Dyno-Drive pedals and cranks. Shimano bars, stem, and seatpost. He rode from the old Action shop.
Haven't seen him in years.
You will see him in my Ragbrai video I did in August. He's going strong! Kicked my butt across Iowa.
@@JohnsVintageRoadBikeGarage It's good that he's still riding big miles. Does he still have the Miyata?
To throw all the vintage enthusiasts completely off...
Slam a BBS02 into the bottom bracket and a bottle shape battery in the bottlecage and have yourself a surprisingly capable E-Bike.
Well.. I'm not at that stage of life yet.. maybe some day!
Thank you for this video, very useful.
Glad it was helpful!
1985 pinarello montello 2017 super record 11, dt 240 hubs, best riding bike I’ve had and I’ve owned caad 10 and 4 carbon road bikes
That's awesome, curious, how are the decals holding up? They're not known to be very durable.