I have never tried a leather outfit so I can not compare, but I do ride in conditions ranging from -5°c to over 30°c and torrential rain, so far I have been lucky enough to avoid snow. I wear the same textile jacket and pants year round, the pants have a thermal lining, if that isn't sufficient a pair of marino long johns are worn inside as well. Then waterproof over the top if required. As for the jacket, during the warm times I just wear a thin marino base layer, excellent for wicking, and open all the vents in the jacket. When it turns cold a marino thermal base layer a poly shirt, a jacket inner with waterproof liner, the jacket itself, and the waterproof layer if it is wet or dark, (it is a hi-vis material). As you say being able to stay focused on the ride is important for your safety, so for me warm hands are also important and a combination of eason appropriate gloves, hand guards, and heated grips are the way to go when it is at it's coldest, the guards keep the gloves mostly dry which helps considerably.
Membrane: you are wrong when stating that water vapor can escape but rain can't get in, in the sense that if it is raining or very humid, sweat vapor will not cross the membrane. For vapor to cross the membrane, the other side needs to be very dry (be in a thermodynamic state of what is called low water vapor pressure). Membranes like Goretex where developed for the very dry environment of high altitude mountain climbing where low vapor pressure allows the membrane to do what it is designed for - let body vapor pass through.
Without wanting to sound evasive, what I am doing here is explaining the fundamentals so that motorcyclists understand the basic principles of how their gear functions. I clearly understand that vapour will pass from the warmer, more humid side to the dryer, cooler side, and so what I am trying to explain is how a membrane serves to keep a rider both dry from both the inside and the outside. But this is not a physics tutorial, and I do not set myself up to be an expert about when certain conditions may affect the functioning of the membrane. I am sure that you are technically correct, but I am trying to get motorcyclists to understand why a membrane is better than a polythene sheet, and why it is important to try and stay dry on the inside of the jacket if you don’t want to get too hot or too cold on the bike. Thanks for your observations, anyway.
Can I jus say that chest armour is very important, I know because one of my friends died because of a chest injury, if he had chest armour it would have protected him.
Great video Chris, thanks for sharing. I’ve been a convert to textile kit for some time now though only last year finally sold my single piece leather jacket; in the UK the benefits of textile for our weather conditions just works. Even when I was after a lighter jacket for summer months, I went textile - bought from yourselves!!
Great video as usual ! Leather jackets look sooo good! Textile more practical. Depends what time of year your riding. A nice sunny day I’m reaching for my leather jacket all day long.
I agree the hump on the back is not for the road but I remember mt leather suit by TT Leathers and it was easy to put on and take off , very comfortable but only really for sliding in protection . That was over 40 years ago and thing have changed I don’t mind if it’s leather or textile but what I’m looking for is protection. I had a very bad crash and back in 1979 there wasn’t the protection and the leather suit helped but did not fully protect me. Now I want armer with waterproof and air vest .
I agree that a one piece and a “No 2,” are in compatible or incredibly inconvenient especially if there is a degree of urgency. The only point I would add in favour of leather is that if you have a good fitting suit such as BKS experiencing a tumble fracturing arm or leg, the leather suit may keep the bones together until professional help arrives. However a black leather suit in the height of summer in the south of France or Spain might effect your concentration through dehydration and increasing vulnerability. Not sure from a safety perspective that a mesh suit is the answer, perhaps shorts, tee shirt and trainers in an air conditioned car? I own both options including a full weight and light weight BMW textile suits, if I were to come off I’d prefer to be wearing the BKS suit, though I’d rather not have an off at all! I note that the Police seem to be transferring to textile suits. Heard that Rukka are having a lot of problems with zips lately, I don’t know that much about Rukka as I have more than enough motorcycle clobber to see me out, but I gather that manufacturing has been transferred to the Far East.
Excellent video, Chris - well explained thoughts, and certainly a hot topic. Humans tend to like what they know, and dislike the unknown and untried. As you state, cognitive dissonance. There’s hardly a human activity that you won’t see that played out. I have leather and textile garments and choose which to wear based on temperature, weather, off bike activity, distance of ride - and personal choice. I like it all and realize I’m wearing gear that may make me safer, to a degree, but it isn’t going to keep me safe if I’m in an accident. Riding is not a safe activity. Keep up the great videos, Chris. I enjoy them here in the States and will stop by next time I’m on your side of the pond!
If u look at serious injuries or deaths in motor racing the greatest reduction has been the intro of airbags . Yes I agree abrasion is less important on the road than impact . Materials & armour do work having crashed 20/30 mph with minimal damage to my supafabric knee patch on my Belfast . Only sustained acl injury but an airbag would have been better so guys get on the case for leg pelvis airbags
Thats why I love my Alpinestars GP plus jacket with rideknit, offers good breathability with leather safety, also with some layering easily usable even in colder weather around 10-15 C, but for me personaly its more a weekend jacket then a every day commuter one, if cought by rain would prefer to have a textile one.
Agreed with comments already made. Great video. I have both types of suit, and they both have their place in year round riding. I love my Bering Laminated textile suit. Easy, comfortable and loads of storage. But, in a summers blast to the coast, leather wins all day long. It is just each riders personal preference at the end of the day. One piece riders on the road, look a tad daft in my opinion. No need for it, but riding kit isn't cheap, so if people can't afford, to constantly add to their kit, then so be it. As long as, riders don't venture into the t-shirt, shorts and flip-flop brigade, in the warmer months wear what you're comfortable in.
I have both leather and fabric blended jackets and they are very useful.Of course my leather jacket looks very nice but wearing it in summer is torture (35-40 Celcious). In summer, I can only wear jackets made of mesh fabric and denim-looking trousers (cordura) with inner protection.
I also wear both depending on type of riding. For off-road I'll wear some sort of textiles and hard body armour. For on-road it's always leathers (2-piece) or occasionally a leather jacket with rider jeans - kevlar reinforced in the high risk zones. I disagree that leather can't be comfortable in the heat, cold and wet. I carry waterproofs if there's a chance of rain, such as Oxford Rainseal. These can also add windproofing in the cold. So, I layer OVER the leathers not under. If it's really cold I'll wear a down parka over the leathers then a rain jacket. This is warmer than my heavy duty textile suit. In hot weather, I've got a perforated leather jacket that feels just as good a textile mesh jacket but has far, far better protection from impact and abrasion. I rode it in South Vietnam on the hottest most humid days and, as long as I was moving, the airflow was perfectly comfortable on a naked bike. If I was stuck in traffic (very rare), I'd take it off because I wasn't moving anyway, but I'd also need to do that with a textile jacket. Lack of airflow affects any garment. You'd even sweat if you were naked. I've got an EN13595 level 2 certified textile suit and it's still less protective than 2-piece cowhide leathers yet it is less comfortable and just as heavy. I can move better in the leathers because they have a lot of accordion panels and some textile in low-risk zones. The idea that leathers are less flexible is nonsense with modern designs. I'd like to talk more about safety. I do crash testing for motorcycle garments on actual roads with a realistic impact (1 metre high with a 5kg weight - 50 Joules). Most textiles fail on impact or shortly after. None will survive a slide UNLESS backed with a good secondary layer. Current certifications include NO impact whatsoever but only sliding. How did the rider get to the ground? They completely ignore that part of the crash which makes slide times and distances just about useless. In my tests of about 100 different types of textiles and leathers, good quality competition grade cowhide could handle multiple impacts and very long slides. In my opinion, this makes a good quality leather the best choice because it will most likely handle multiple accidents and any conceivable amount of sliding. Whereas, a textile will not only be trashed by an accident, it will also probably fail before you stopped sliding and tumbling, leaving you exposed. OF course, if you have armour in place, the armour will save you from abrasion. However, armour does not cover all high-risk abrasion zones such as the buttocks and lower forearms. That's why these areas should have secondary layers of abrasion resistant material. There's so much hype, opinion and so little science in motorcycle PPE that it makes me cringe. Overall, the video is still a good one but it misses out on the point that choosing leather is not a case of "cognitive dissonance" but based on actual science. Whereas there's no such science that says leathers have any less "passive safety" than textiles. If you think so, show me a study that says so.
It feels as though you have completely disregarded everything that does not accord with what is clearly a deeply-held conviction that leather is the best thing to wear on the bike.. Personally, it doesn’t lead me to the view that ‘cognitive dissonance’ is not a factor when it comes to this discussion. In fact, you seem to be an example of the attitudes I was alluding to. There are no rights and wrongs here; and I make that clear in my review. But merely saying that you disagree does not advance the argument much. And, of course, your views seem to be based solely on your own experiences. You make it clear that you prefer leather, but that doesn’t negate the undisputed benefits of textile gear. You have also ignored comments about the differences between accidents on the track and accidents on the road. And you write off the whole concept of passive safety, which is intuitively understood and accepted by most experienced motorcyclists, on the basis that there has been no empirical study on the subject. You simply appear unwilling to consider a view that is counter to yours!
@@Motolegends I'm actually a recent convert to leather, having dumped it in the 80's. This is science based on actual crash testing and examination of actual crashed garments. Having seen how poorly textiles perform in actual drop tests on real roads last year, I decided that leather was best for tarmac/asphalt in every case. Although I do wear lined rider jeans for some urban/suburban riding. These type of lined jeans perform better than textiles in impact abrasion but still nowhere close to leather. There are many hybrids now so we can't just say it's "one or the other" so definitively. Leathers often have large amounts if stretch textile in low-risk areas to save weight and make them more comfortable. Textiles sometimes have leather patches on high risk zones to improve impact abrasion performance. In my research I found that most textiles fail at or immediately after impact at city speeds on city roads. That's just within 1-3 metres of impact. If you have armour, which you'd be stupid to remove, you'll probably be saved from gravel rash. Otherwise, you will most likely get soft tissue injury. Safety is not subjective but comfort is much more personal. I find perforated leather comfortable up to 35C in high humidity (80-90%) comfortable as long as I keep moving on a naked bike. Let's say 50-80 km/h. Your mileage may vary.
I would add there's an image/ macho thing going on with leathers. Let's face it, if you've a new Panigale V4S under your bum, you're hardly going to be dressed tip to toe in Rukka gear, are you. Or, dare I say, Belstaff. Filtering down from your 25k bike owner, the bloke on a 2002 Fireblade or Daytona isn't going to wear anything other than (suitably well worn) leathers. I'd estimate that 90% of the people I see down at my local bike caff (a biggun) wear leathers. They're all middle aged blokes, too, but that's just a coincidence. Probably. Anyway, as ever, great video, Mr CITC.
Customers travel much further than Shropshire to come and see us. I admit that it’s not practical for a new pair of gloves, but if you need a new suit, want to get the right one, and want it to fit properly so that it works properly, the trip might be worthwhile. In the long run, visiting us could save you time, heartache and money. CP
Not quite sure what point you are making here. I am not knocking anything. I am merely trying to highlight the strengths and weaknesses of leather and textile garments. I have made it clear that we have no preferences, and that there are times when I personally leather, and times when I prefer textiles. If your point is that the only way is to try both for yourself, I am not sure I would disagree. But this video is about helping those who are perhaps new to biking to make better informed decisions. That’s the bottom line.
So be it, but we produce these videos more for those who are new to motorcycling, and my point was to try and explain why so many riders seem to be proponents of leather when, on a rational, level, the benefits are so few. Without explaining why those who ride in leather are so entrenched, I did not feel that the point would be made. CP
![[롤] T1 도란 장인급 숙련도 탑 잭스 하드캐리 vs 카시오페아](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/VhrmqeJxHjU/mqdefault.jpg)
A rare thing for UA-cam: an intelligent, well thought out, forthright and balanced video. Thank you.
Thank you for taking the time to watch our videos!
This is so true, the BMW Atlantis suit however falls more in a crossover range between textile and leathers
I have never tried a leather outfit so I can not compare, but I do ride in conditions ranging from -5°c to over 30°c and torrential rain, so far I have been lucky enough to avoid snow.
I wear the same textile jacket and pants year round, the pants have a thermal lining, if that isn't sufficient a pair of marino long johns are worn inside as well. Then waterproof over the top if required.
As for the jacket, during the warm times I just wear a thin marino base layer, excellent for wicking, and open all the vents in the jacket. When it turns cold a marino thermal base layer a poly shirt, a jacket inner with waterproof liner, the jacket itself, and the waterproof layer if it is wet or dark, (it is a hi-vis material).
As you say being able to stay focused on the ride is important for your safety, so for me warm hands are also important and a combination of eason appropriate gloves, hand guards, and heated grips are the way to go when it is at it's coldest, the guards keep the gloves mostly dry which helps considerably.
Membrane: you are wrong when stating that water vapor can escape but rain can't get in, in the sense that if it is raining or very humid, sweat vapor will not cross the membrane. For vapor to cross the membrane, the other side needs to be very dry (be in a thermodynamic state of what is called low water vapor pressure). Membranes like Goretex where developed for the very dry environment of high altitude mountain climbing where low vapor pressure allows the membrane to do what it is designed for - let body vapor pass through.
Without wanting to sound evasive, what I am doing here is explaining the fundamentals so that motorcyclists understand the basic principles of how their gear functions. I clearly understand that vapour will pass from the warmer, more humid side to the dryer, cooler side, and so what I am trying to explain is how a membrane serves to keep a rider both dry from both the inside and the outside. But this is not a physics tutorial, and I do not set myself up to be an expert about when certain conditions may affect the functioning of the membrane. I am sure that you are technically correct, but I am trying to get motorcyclists to understand why a membrane is better than a polythene sheet, and why it is important to try and stay dry on the inside of the jacket if you don’t want to get too hot or too cold on the bike. Thanks for your observations, anyway.
@@Motolegends Makes a lot of sens, keep the good work. You are always informative. Sorry I'm too far to visit!
Can I jus say that chest armour is very important, I know because one of my friends died because of a chest injury, if he had chest armour it would have protected him.
Great video Chris, thanks for sharing. I’ve been a convert to textile kit for some time now though only last year finally sold my single piece leather jacket; in the UK the benefits of textile for our weather conditions just works. Even when I was after a lighter jacket for summer months, I went textile - bought from yourselves!!
Great video as usual !
Leather jackets look sooo good!
Textile more practical.
Depends what time of year your riding. A nice sunny day I’m reaching for my leather jacket all day long.
I agree the hump on the back is not for the road but I remember mt leather suit by TT Leathers and it was easy to put on and take off , very comfortable but only really for sliding in protection . That was over 40 years ago and thing have changed I don’t mind if it’s leather or textile but what I’m looking for is protection. I had a very bad crash and back in 1979 there wasn’t the protection and the leather suit helped but did not fully protect me. Now I want armer with waterproof and air vest .
I agree that a one piece and a “No 2,” are in compatible or incredibly inconvenient especially if there is a degree of urgency. The only point I would add in favour of leather is that if you have a good fitting suit such as BKS experiencing a tumble fracturing arm or leg, the leather suit may keep the bones together until professional help arrives. However a black leather suit in the height of summer in the south of France or Spain might effect your concentration through dehydration and increasing vulnerability. Not sure from a safety perspective that a mesh suit is the answer, perhaps shorts, tee shirt and trainers in an air conditioned car? I own both options including a full weight and light weight BMW textile suits, if I were to come off I’d prefer to be wearing the BKS suit, though I’d rather not have an off at all! I note that the Police seem to be transferring to textile suits. Heard that Rukka are having a lot of problems with zips lately, I don’t know that much about Rukka as I have more than enough motorcycle clobber to see me out, but I gather that manufacturing has been transferred to the Far East.
Excellent video, Chris - well explained thoughts, and certainly a hot topic.
Humans tend to like what they know, and dislike the unknown and untried. As you state, cognitive dissonance. There’s hardly a human activity that you won’t see that played out.
I have leather and textile garments and choose which to wear based on temperature, weather, off bike activity, distance of ride - and personal choice. I like it all and realize I’m wearing gear that may make me safer, to a degree, but it isn’t going to keep me safe if I’m in an accident. Riding is not a safe activity.
Keep up the great videos, Chris. I enjoy them here in the States and will stop by next time I’m on your side of the pond!
If u look at serious injuries or deaths in motor racing the greatest reduction has been the intro of airbags . Yes I agree abrasion is less important on the road than impact . Materials & armour do work having crashed 20/30 mph with minimal damage to my supafabric knee patch on my Belfast . Only sustained acl injury but an airbag would have been better so guys get on the case for leg pelvis airbags
Thats why I love my Alpinestars GP plus jacket with rideknit, offers good breathability with leather safety, also with some layering easily usable even in colder weather around 10-15 C, but for me personaly its more a weekend jacket then a every day commuter one, if cought by rain would prefer to have a textile one.
Agreed with comments already made. Great video. I have both types of suit, and they both have their place in year round riding. I love my Bering Laminated textile suit. Easy, comfortable and loads of storage. But, in a summers blast to the coast, leather wins all day long. It is just each riders personal preference at the end of the day. One piece riders on the road, look a tad daft in my opinion. No need for it, but riding kit isn't cheap, so if people can't afford, to constantly add to their kit, then so be it. As long as, riders don't venture into the t-shirt, shorts and flip-flop brigade, in the warmer months wear what you're comfortable in.
I have both leather and fabric blended jackets and they are very useful.Of course my leather jacket looks very nice but wearing it in summer is torture (35-40 Celcious). In summer, I can only wear jackets made of mesh fabric and denim-looking trousers (cordura) with inner protection.
I also wear both depending on type of riding. For off-road I'll wear some sort of textiles and hard body armour. For on-road it's always leathers (2-piece) or occasionally a leather jacket with rider jeans - kevlar reinforced in the high risk zones. I disagree that leather can't be comfortable in the heat, cold and wet. I carry waterproofs if there's a chance of rain, such as Oxford Rainseal. These can also add windproofing in the cold. So, I layer OVER the leathers not under. If it's really cold I'll wear a down parka over the leathers then a rain jacket. This is warmer than my heavy duty textile suit.
In hot weather, I've got a perforated leather jacket that feels just as good a textile mesh jacket but has far, far better protection from impact and abrasion. I rode it in South Vietnam on the hottest most humid days and, as long as I was moving, the airflow was perfectly comfortable on a naked bike. If I was stuck in traffic (very rare), I'd take it off because I wasn't moving anyway, but I'd also need to do that with a textile jacket. Lack of airflow affects any garment. You'd even sweat if you were naked.
I've got an EN13595 level 2 certified textile suit and it's still less protective than 2-piece cowhide leathers yet it is less comfortable and just as heavy. I can move better in the leathers because they have a lot of accordion panels and some textile in low-risk zones. The idea that leathers are less flexible is nonsense with modern designs.
I'd like to talk more about safety. I do crash testing for motorcycle garments on actual roads with a realistic impact (1 metre high with a 5kg weight - 50 Joules). Most textiles fail on impact or shortly after. None will survive a slide UNLESS backed with a good secondary layer. Current certifications include NO impact whatsoever but only sliding. How did the rider get to the ground? They completely ignore that part of the crash which makes slide times and distances just about useless. In my tests of about 100 different types of textiles and leathers, good quality competition grade cowhide could handle multiple impacts and very long slides. In my opinion, this makes a good quality leather the best choice because it will most likely handle multiple accidents and any conceivable amount of sliding. Whereas, a textile will not only be trashed by an accident, it will also probably fail before you stopped sliding and tumbling, leaving you exposed. OF course, if you have armour in place, the armour will save you from abrasion. However, armour does not cover all high-risk abrasion zones such as the buttocks and lower forearms. That's why these areas should have secondary layers of abrasion resistant material.
There's so much hype, opinion and so little science in motorcycle PPE that it makes me cringe. Overall, the video is still a good one but it misses out on the point that choosing leather is not a case of "cognitive dissonance" but based on actual science. Whereas there's no such science that says leathers have any less "passive safety" than textiles. If you think so, show me a study that says so.
It feels as though you have completely disregarded everything that does not accord with what is clearly a deeply-held conviction that leather is the best thing to wear on the bike.. Personally, it doesn’t lead me to the view that ‘cognitive dissonance’ is not a factor when it comes to this discussion. In fact, you seem to be an example of the attitudes I was alluding to. There are no rights and wrongs here; and I make that clear in my review. But merely saying that you disagree does not advance the argument much. And, of course, your views seem to be based solely on your own experiences. You make it clear that you prefer leather, but that doesn’t negate the undisputed benefits of textile gear. You have also ignored comments about the differences between accidents on the track and accidents on the road. And you write off the whole concept of passive safety, which is intuitively understood and accepted by most experienced motorcyclists, on the basis that there has been no empirical study on the subject. You simply appear unwilling to consider a view that is counter to yours!
@@Motolegends I'm actually a recent convert to leather, having dumped it in the 80's. This is science based on actual crash testing and examination of actual crashed garments.
Having seen how poorly textiles perform in actual drop tests on real roads last year, I decided that leather was best for tarmac/asphalt in every case. Although I do wear lined rider jeans for some urban/suburban riding. These type of lined jeans perform better than textiles in impact abrasion but still nowhere close to leather.
There are many hybrids now so we can't just say it's "one or the other" so definitively. Leathers often have large amounts if stretch textile in low-risk areas to save weight and make them more comfortable. Textiles sometimes have leather patches on high risk zones to improve impact abrasion performance.
In my research I found that most textiles fail at or immediately after impact at city speeds on city roads. That's just within 1-3 metres of impact. If you have armour, which you'd be stupid to remove, you'll probably be saved from gravel rash. Otherwise, you will most likely get soft tissue injury.
Safety is not subjective but comfort is much more personal. I find perforated leather comfortable up to 35C in high humidity (80-90%) comfortable as long as I keep moving on a naked bike. Let's say 50-80 km/h. Your mileage may vary.
I would add there's an image/ macho thing going on with leathers. Let's face it, if you've a new Panigale V4S under your bum, you're hardly going to be dressed tip to toe in Rukka gear, are you. Or, dare I say, Belstaff. Filtering down from your 25k bike owner, the bloke on a 2002 Fireblade or Daytona isn't going to wear anything other than (suitably well worn) leathers. I'd estimate that 90% of the people I see down at my local bike caff (a biggun) wear leathers. They're all middle aged blokes, too, but that's just a coincidence. Probably. Anyway, as ever, great video, Mr CITC.
I love your channel I would love to come to your shop but I live in Shropshire
Customers travel much further than Shropshire to come and see us. I admit that it’s not practical for a new pair of gloves, but if you need a new suit, want to get the right one, and want it to fit properly so that it works properly, the trip might be worthwhile. In the long run, visiting us could save you time, heartache and money. CP
I live by don't knock it until you've tried it.
Not quite sure what point you are making here. I am not knocking anything. I am merely trying to highlight the strengths and weaknesses of leather and textile garments. I have made it clear that we have no preferences, and that there are times when I personally leather, and times when I prefer textiles. If your point is that the only way is to try both for yourself, I am not sure I would disagree. But this video is about helping those who are perhaps new to biking to make better informed decisions. That’s the bottom line.
Really interested in learning about the motorcycle gear but not too fussed with the erudite Psych 101 material.. popeye
So be it, but we produce these videos more for those who are new to motorcycling, and my point was to try and explain why so many riders seem to be proponents of leather when, on a rational, level, the benefits are so few. Without explaining why those who ride in leather are so entrenched, I did not feel that the point would be made. CP
Chris, thanks for this valuable, balanced, informative video. Keep 'em coming and remember...the cognitive dissonance is strong some ;-)